HomeFairfax General ForumArrest/Ticket SearchWiki newPictures/VideosChatArticlesLinksAbout
Off-Topic :  Fairfax Underground fairfax underground logo
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: SoulStirrer ()
Date: October 31, 2011 02:24PM

Why would anyone want to risk eternity in hell. They say there is no hell. How can they be sure ? Why take that risK? What you believe about life after death will be put to the test after you die. The truth is- we ALL DIE. Why would you want to deny hell, when there might be one- and you very well could go there- if you dont have Jesus Christ in your life to cover your sins?

Every action we do is fallen. There is no such thing as a "good person". Even "good people" on earth are not all that good. We are all vile sinners, and we were given a choice to spend eternity in hell, or be in heaven with God. God doesnt want us to go to tell, so he warns us every chance we get. DO NOT GO TO HELL! You dont have to.


You can repent right now of your sins, ask Jesus Christ to be Lord Savior of your life, turn from sin. Walk in the way of the light. It doesnt mean you'll be perfect. You may still stumble, but because of Gods grace and mercy He will forgive you. He won't forsake you if you ask for forgiveness. This heartbeat could be your last. Where will you go?
'
Hell does not exist yet. It will opened after the final judgement. Those in Christ go straight to heaven. Those who are not in Christ will be in the holding place until the final judgement. Then you will be judged on your life on earth- your sins- your good and bad, all you did. Without Jesus Christ to save you. And you will be punished in hell based no what you did here. Friend, please don't let that be you! You dont have to go to hell. Get right with God now before its too late. Hell is a real place, and you can go to heaven. Make that choice for God. Please!


http://www.eternalhell.net/hellfire.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Life could be hell ()
Date: October 31, 2011 02:29PM

What about people who live a life of hell, like Mr. Misery. He suffers so much everyday shouldn't he be cut some slack. Read his post, he was born to suffer and why should he be damn to eternal hell.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: October 31, 2011 03:32PM

So, if God doesn't really want us to go to Hell, why did he create it? Why bother with creating a place like Heaven? Both are totally unnecessary and counter-productive.

Why not create the Earth, drop us off and let us have a go at it? Why must he continuously meddle in our affairs, if not for his eccentric, authoritarian, egotistic, ant farmer like behavior?

Imagine what we would think of any person that tried to pull this shit here on Earth. People would loathe and despise him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Harry Tuttle ()
Date: October 31, 2011 03:36PM

Numbers, you realize that SoulStirrer is just writing this stuff to rouse rabble, right?

Signatures are for fags

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: JBass ()
Date: October 31, 2011 03:37PM

Fuck Jesus. Fuck you and fuck your church. Scam artist, loser.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Soulstirrer ()
Date: October 31, 2011 03:37PM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, if God doesn't really want us to go to Hell,
> why did he create it? Why bother with creating a
> place like Heaven? Both are totally unnecessary
> and counter-productive.
>
> Why not create the Earth, drop us off and let us
> have a go at it? Why must he continuously meddle
> in our affairs, if not for his eccentric,
> authoritarian, egotistic, ant farmer like
> behavior?
>
> Imagine what we would think of any person that
> tried to pull this shit here on Earth. People
> would loathe and despise him.

Because its for the devil and his demons, not us. But to be apart from God is to be in hell.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Kenny c. ()
Date: October 31, 2011 03:38PM

Harry Tuttle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Numbers, you realize that SoulStirrer is just
> writing this stuff to rouse rabble, right?


Numbers is a sucker!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: SoulStirrer ()
Date: October 31, 2011 04:53PM

Harry Tuttle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Numbers, you realize that SoulStirrer is just
> writing this stuff to rouse rabble, right?


No, its because I love my fellow human beings, and I want to warn people about what could happen if you die without salvation. Be saved today!


Pray the sinners prayer:

Dear Lord,
I admit that I am a sinner. I have chosen to enjoy sin and life my life the way I want to. I know surrender myself to you, Lord. Please save me and come into my life and my heart. Guide me and direct me Lord, and show me the way. I repent of my sins and my evil doings. I trust my soul , my eternal life in you , Lord. Thank you so much for offering this gift of salvation. I pray this from my very heart of hearts. Amen.

Friend, if you just prayed this prayer, your sins are forgiven, and your life is spared. Praise God! And you can start living a life following Jesus Christ. The road wont be easy. You will be faced with tempatations, and you may even stumble into sin, but the Lord can pick you out of that trap, if you repent humbly and keep the faith in Him. You can be saved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: GO fuck yourself ()
Date: October 31, 2011 04:55PM

Go shove a dildo up your ass you bible thumping homo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: wilden ()
Date: October 31, 2011 05:04PM

Do Priests/Rabbis/Islamic hoodoos who molest children go to hell?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Date: October 31, 2011 05:08PM

What about purgatory?

But yeah, OP is a bible humping fag.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Soulstirrer ()
Date: October 31, 2011 07:36PM

obvious is obvious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about purgatory?
>
> But yeah, OP is a bible humping fag.


Im afraid there is no purgatory. The Catholic church made that up. Catholicism is a cult as is Mormonism. Although I do believe there are some sincere Christians who claim those denominations.

The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Believe and pray and accept him into your heart. Islam, Hindu, and other false religions only lead to hell.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Harry Tuttle ()
Date: October 31, 2011 07:52PM

I wish there was a real Christian nutjob on this forum that I could talk to about this... Not a fan of the fake Christian nutjobs that are just looking to stir shit up..

(Not saying that all Christians are nutjobs... just saying that I want to talk to a Christian that is also a nutjob.. and that SoulStirrer is a phony...)

Signatures are for fags

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: thetruthseekeryes ()
Date: October 31, 2011 08:24PM

Jesus was in hell.

HE preached to the dead.

THe catholics call it SHeol though...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: RankineCycler ()
Date: October 31, 2011 08:24PM

In between your thoughts there is war being waged.

Born of this war are reactions and thoughts

which bear subsequent actions (and reactions and thoughts).

You are more than a witness...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Soulstirrer ()
Date: October 31, 2011 08:40PM

Harry Tuttle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish there was a real Christian nutjob on this
> forum that I could talk to about this... Not a fan
> of the fake Christian nutjobs that are just
> looking to stir shit up..
>
> (Not saying that all Christians are nutjobs...
> just saying that I want to talk to a Christian
> that is also a nutjob.. and that SoulStirrer is a
> phony...)


Im sorry you wish to mock me. But I just came here so spread the Gospel message.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: couldthisrealitybehell? ()
Date: October 31, 2011 08:49PM

I sometimes ponder if this reality is hell. Myself (and I feel that most other people as well) spend much more time suffering than experiencing the beauty of life. I sometimes wonder if the only reason we have good experiences is because it is impossible to have bad experience without some good? This is obviously a very dark theory, but think about it for a second... a lot of people are very happy during certain parts of their life, but does that ever last for the majority of their lives???

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: evodune ()
Date: October 31, 2011 10:38PM

evangelicals scream bullshit but they only like to read passages that agree with neoconservatisim.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Date: October 31, 2011 10:49PM

God is Good. God is All Powerful. God is All Knowing. God allows Satan to create Hell and cast the souls of his children in it.

So, in fact, God either isn't all Good, isn't All Powerful, isn't All Knowing or is a combination of all of them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: poopstick ()
Date: October 31, 2011 10:57PM

Robot_Devil.png

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Non Serviam ()
Date: November 01, 2011 12:03AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God is Good. God is All Powerful. God is All
> Knowing. God allows Satan to create Hell and cast
> the souls of his children in it.
>
> So, in fact, God either isn't all Good, isn't All
> Powerful, isn't All Knowing or is a combination of
> all of them.



Hell is the eternal separation of creatures from their Creator. It is primarily the pain of loss, as the human soul is created so as to be fulfilled only through union with God.

"You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee."

Any soul that is in hell is so because of deliberate, knowing choices s/he made.

"It is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God." Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadam (1854).

All are offered sufficient grace to be saved, but we are free to reject that grace.

Those souls in hell prefer and choose hell over heaven. Heaven would be far more painful to them because heaven is the unmediated presence of God, whom the souls in hell, through their deliberate choices and actions, have definitively and freely rejected, preferring self to God.

Jesus himself said you do not have to be a specific religion, but that those who fed him when he was hungry, clothed him when naked etc. will join him in heaven.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
- Matthew 25:34-40.


"Everyone who loves is born of God." 1 John 4:7.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: BORING ()
Date: November 01, 2011 12:31AM

Soulstirrer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harry Tuttle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wish there was a real Christian nutjob on
> this
> > forum that I could talk to about this... Not a
> fan
> > of the fake Christian nutjobs that are just
> > looking to stir shit up..
> >
> > (Not saying that all Christians are nutjobs...
> > just saying that I want to talk to a Christian
> > that is also a nutjob.. and that SoulStirrer is
> a
> > phony...)
>
>
> Im sorry you wish to mock me. But I just came here
> so spread the Gospel message.


No. You're just another boring atheist nutjob, obsessed with religion and your hatred of Christians. No one cares about this bullshit except other pathetic bores like yourself.

Take your faggy shit and go occupy a black Baptist church somewhere in Alabama. Maybe you'll get your gay ass on TV.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: November 01, 2011 01:47AM

Harry Tuttle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Numbers, you realize that SoulStirrer is just
> writing this stuff to rouse rabble, right?


Probably true, Harry. Nevertheless, I hear this from a lot of people that are really serious about it. A good friend of mine used to believe that until I talked sense into her. I'm still fascinated by how many people I know that truly believe in and are terrified of ghosts. My own dad, who isn't even religious, thinks he had a ghostly encounter in a haunted house when he was young. In reality, I think some of his co-workers were fucking with him.

As for Soulstirrer, I don't get it. I don't see the the point in trying to stir up shit on a forum if the results aren't in some way humorous or even self indulgent. Just for shits and giggles, lets assume this thread did become a serious discussion, then what? Does Soulstirrer sit back and laugh? If so, at what?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: bloody blisters ()
Date: November 01, 2011 02:55AM

hell is real. it lies somewhere between the oklahoma pan handle and kansas

Attachments:

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Harry Tuttle ()
Date: November 01, 2011 04:09AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God is Good. God is All Powerful. God is All
> Knowing. God allows Satan to create Hell and cast
> the souls of his children in it.
>
> So, in fact, God either isn't all Good, isn't All
> Powerful, isn't All Knowing or is a combination of
> all of them.


You forgot one... Maybe Hell is Good?

Signatures are for fags

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 01, 2011 11:30AM

It wasn't until I became a parent that I had a little better understanding of the "whys" in regards to God and sin and free choice. I was already a Christian, but when I had children I had a better understanding of the deepest and most fundamental, selfless love we have for our children. You want what is best for your children (that is, for them to do what is right and succeed in life), you want them to love you, but you also cannot force them to love you, and if even if you could force them, it would be phony. They have the free will to love you or reject you. I don't think it's a coincidence we feel this way about our children, since we are created in God's image. He loves us as his children, he wants us to love him, but forcing us to do so would be empty. We have a choice to love him or not, and if we refuse him, then we are separated from him by our own choice. It wouldn't make sense to be any other way.

Think about how you got on this Earth, why you are here, how did it all come to be, and why did so many suffer and give their very lives under torture rather than deny the truth that they witnessed? -- that Jesus died and rose from the dead so that we could be restored to be with God. This might sound like fairy tales to some when they first hear it, but if you look into it, you will find there is an immense amount of evidence supporting it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: November 01, 2011 11:33AM

> you will find there is an immense amount of evidence supporting it.

lol. such as?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Tastes like chicken ()
Date: November 01, 2011 11:49AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: SoulStirrer ()
Date: November 01, 2011 11:52AM

BORING Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Soulstirrer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Harry Tuttle Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wish there was a real Christian nutjob on
> > this
> > > forum that I could talk to about this... Not
> a
> > fan
> > > of the fake Christian nutjobs that are just
> > > looking to stir shit up..
> > >
> > > (Not saying that all Christians are
> nutjobs...
> > > just saying that I want to talk to a
> Christian
> > > that is also a nutjob.. and that SoulStirrer
> is
> > a
> > > phony...)
> >
> >
> > Im sorry you wish to mock me. But I just came
> here
> > so spread the Gospel message.
>
>
> No. You're just another boring atheist nutjob,
> obsessed with religion and your hatred of
> Christians. No one cares about this bullshit
> except other pathetic bores like yourself.
>
> Take your faggy shit and go occupy a black Baptist
> church somewhere in Alabama. Maybe you'll get your
> gay ass on TV.

Im not an atheist. Im a real believer in Christ.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: village idiot ()
Date: November 01, 2011 12:03PM

Psalm 14:1 "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: November 01, 2011 12:22PM

village idiot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Psalm 14:1 "The fool has said in his heart, there
> is no God."


Actually, the full verse is: "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good."

Now since we clearly know that people who don't believe in God do good things, and aren't more prone to corruption or "abominable works", we can say that the bible is flat-out wrong here. Which sorta makes you question the accuracy of the entire document.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: SoulStirrer ()
Date: November 01, 2011 12:31PM

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> village idiot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Psalm 14:1 "The fool has said in his heart,
> there
> > is no God."
>
>
> Actually, the full verse is: "The fool has said in
> his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, they
> have done abominable works, there is none that
> does good."
>
> Now since we clearly know that people who don't
> believe in God do good things, and aren't more
> prone to corruption or "abominable works", we can
> say that the bible is flat-out wrong here. Which
> sorta makes you question the accuracy of the
> entire document.

What "good things". What we consider "good people" is subjective. Even our "good people" have done a lot of bad things. We can't measure good and bad that way. Thats why the Bible makes sense. Its an even playing field. We are all sinners equally. We need a Savior to cover those sins for us under the law.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: village idiot ()
Date: November 01, 2011 12:42PM

TheMeeper wrote
------------------------------------------

"Actually, the full verse is: "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good."


Since you want to bring in the full verse, the end specifically says there is NONE that does good. That includes you, me and the rest of the world.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 01, 2011 02:34PM

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > you will find there is an immense amount of
> evidence supporting it.
>
> lol. such as?


That's a tough but good question, and obviously one that's been debated for thousands of years. Since you're "lol'ing" I'm not sure you are actually seeking answers. But for those who are really seeking answers, I guess I'd say the evidence that convinces people varies from person to person. For me, the evidence that convinces me most is:

1. The historical record of Jesus Christ's life here on Earth, the eyewitness accounts of his words and acts, and the evidence that so many willingly gave their lives attesting to its truth (including Christ himself who died an agonizing death, when he could have said 'never mind, I made it all up') and gone free. This has been discussed as C.S. Lewis' "Trilemma (Lunatic, Liar, or Lord).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma

2. The universe and life itself -- Where did it all come from, how did it come to be? How did the laws of physics and the Big Bang and everything else in the physical universe come to pass? I don't find the idea that it all came from a series of random events out of nothingness compelling. To me it all suggests a Creator who set things in motion according to specific physical laws.

3. Why do so many of us (if not all) have this feeling within, that we are searching for something more than just our mortal lives, that there is something beyond just our flesh and bones and then we become worm food? Why would mankind have this curiosity and desire to understand what happens after physical death, if anything, and what is it we are searching for? Do we have an eternal "soul" or some purpose in our life?

4. Observing God working in my own life (not convincing evidence for non-believers, I realize, but true nonetheless and reinforcing for me). I have witnessed firsthand answers to prayer, and not just random events that could have happened without prayer. Many others would attest to the same thing.

5. We've all witnessed evil firsthand, we know it exists. There has to be good as well. Where do "good" and "evil" come from, or do they just exist on their own as concepts? It feels to me like there's something behind good and evil, not just the whims of men/women acting in their own self-interests or according to evolutionary pressures.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: poopstick ()
Date: November 01, 2011 03:30PM

Believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > you will find there is an immense amount of
> > evidence supporting it.
> >
> > lol. such as?
>
>
> That's a tough but good question, and obviously
> one that's been debated for thousands of years.
> Since you're "lol'ing" I'm not sure you are
> actually seeking answers. But for those who are
> really seeking answers, I guess I'd say the
> evidence that convinces people varies from person
> to person. For me, the evidence that convinces me
> most is:
>
> 1. The historical record of Jesus Christ's life
> here on Earth, the eyewitness accounts of his
> words and acts, and the evidence that so many
> willingly gave their lives attesting to its truth
> (including Christ himself who died an agonizing
> death, when he could have said 'never mind, I made
> it all up') and gone free. This has been discussed
> as C.S. Lewis' "Trilemma (Lunatic, Liar, or
> Lord).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma
>
> 2. The universe and life itself -- Where did it
> all come from, how did it come to be? How did the
> laws of physics and the Big Bang and everything
> else in the physical universe come to pass? I
> don't find the idea that it all came from a series
> of random events out of nothingness compelling. To
> me it all suggests a Creator who set things in
> motion according to specific physical laws.
>
> 3. Why do so many of us (if not all) have this
> feeling within, that we are searching for
> something more than just our mortal lives, that
> there is something beyond just our flesh and bones
> and then we become worm food? Why would mankind
> have this curiosity and desire to understand what
> happens after physical death, if anything, and
> what is it we are searching for? Do we have an
> eternal "soul" or some purpose in our life?
>
> 4. Observing God working in my own life (not
> convincing evidence for non-believers, I realize,
> but true nonetheless and reinforcing for me). I
> have witnessed firsthand answers to prayer, and
> not just random events that could have happened
> without prayer. Many others would attest to the
> same thing.
>
> 5. We've all witnessed evil firsthand, we know it
> exists. There has to be good as well. Where do
> "good" and "evil" come from, or do they just exist
> on their own as concepts? It feels to me like
> there's something behind good and evil, not just
> the whims of men/women acting in their own
> self-interests or according to evolutionary
> pressures.


Let me take a crack at this.

1. You believe because someone wrote it in a book a long time ago? Could not the same thing be said about every other religion. How do you know you picked the right one? Are the accounts of Jesus somehow more believable than what is written in the Quran or Tora? There sure are a lot of Muslims who are willingly giving their lives because they think they are right.

2. This is ridiculous. Just because you don't know the answer to something you shouldn't just make something up. You don't find the fact that life was miraculously spawned from amino acids in a primordial soup and through billions of years of evolution, mutation, and survival of the fittest a species of self aware animals was the result to be compelling? Is "God did it" really more compelling?

3. Just because we have a desire to know something doesn't make a ridiculous answer more valid. Just because I wonder where my missing socks go doesn't mean there's a goblin in my clothes dryer.

4. When someone prays and their prayer comes true, it's because god listened and answered their prayer. When their prayer doesn't come true... "God works in mysterious ways". Again, ridiculous logic with the foregone conclusion that there is a god.

5. Yes, Good and Evil exist as concepts. There are no demons or angels making people act one way or another.


I try to be a good person because it's the right thing to do. Because I have social values and I wish to be a part of a society where the other person will also try to be a good person. I don't need to believe in some trumped up Santa Clause watching me from the clouds and condemning me to eternal damnation if I don't believe in him.

If that's what works for you, fine. Honestly, even if you do believe there is a god, I don't know why you would worship him when he allows such tragedies to occur on Earth. But I guess he only decides to interfere when it proves his existence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2011 03:33PM by poopstick.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 01, 2011 04:39PM

poopstick Wrote:

> ... many legitimate objections

Hey I hear ya, I've wrestled with all of the points you've raised, and I'm sure so has everyone else on either side of the debate. I understand your objections, and I'm not the person to convince you otherwise. We'd probably agree, if faith in God was as plain as 1 + 1 = 2, there would be no argument, it would be easy for everyone. Because it's faith and can't be scientifically proven, there will always be questions and debates.

My belief is not misplaced though; I'm not a lunatic who believes everything he/she hears or sees. I don't believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy or Islam or Scientology or a 6000-year-old earth or lots of other stuff, but after very careful reflection I'm convinced this is the real deal, and I hope people will investigate for themselves and reach the right conclusion.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: nHdEY ()
Date: November 01, 2011 07:34PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Someone ()
Date: November 01, 2011 08:31PM

Believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > you will find there is an immense amount of
> > evidence supporting it.
> >
> > lol. such as?
>
>
> That's a tough but good question, and obviously
> one that's been debated for thousands of years.
> Since you're "lol'ing" I'm not sure you are
> actually seeking answers. But for those who are
> really seeking answers, I guess I'd say the
> evidence that convinces people varies from person
> to person. For me, the evidence that convinces me
> most is:
>
> 1. The historical record of Jesus Christ's life
> here on Earth, the eyewitness accounts of his
> words and acts, and the evidence that so many
> willingly gave their lives attesting to its truth
> (including Christ himself who died an agonizing
> death, when he could have said 'never mind, I made
> it all up') and gone free. This has been discussed
> as C.S. Lewis' "Trilemma (Lunatic, Liar, or
> Lord).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma
>
> 2. The universe and life itself -- Where did it
> all come from, how did it come to be? How did the
> laws of physics and the Big Bang and everything
> else in the physical universe come to pass? I
> don't find the idea that it all came from a series
> of random events out of nothingness compelling. To
> me it all suggests a Creator who set things in
> motion according to specific physical laws.
>
> 3. Why do so many of us (if not all) have this
> feeling within, that we are searching for
> something more than just our mortal lives, that
> there is something beyond just our flesh and bones
> and then we become worm food? Why would mankind
> have this curiosity and desire to understand what
> happens after physical death, if anything, and
> what is it we are searching for? Do we have an
> eternal "soul" or some purpose in our life?
>
> 4. Observing God working in my own life (not
> convincing evidence for non-believers, I realize,
> but true nonetheless and reinforcing for me). I
> have witnessed firsthand answers to prayer, and
> not just random events that could have happened
> without prayer. Many others would attest to the
> same thing.
>
> 5. We've all witnessed evil firsthand, we know it
> exists. There has to be good as well. Where do
> "good" and "evil" come from, or do they just exist
> on their own as concepts? It feels to me like
> there's something behind good and evil, not just
> the whims of men/women acting in their own
> self-interests or according to evolutionary
> pressures.

This is extremely weak, so weak that it tells me that there is no evidence. You seem fairly reasonable, unless you're just pretending to be so you'll taken more seriously, so how can you really present this as evidence? There's absolutely nothing there that can be classified as such.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: LogicFail ()
Date: November 01, 2011 08:48PM

Believe Wrote:
>
> 2. The universe and life itself -- Where did it
> all come from, how did it come to be? How did the
> laws of physics and the Big Bang and everything
> else in the physical universe come to pass? I
> don't find the idea that it all came from a series
> of random events out of nothingness compelling. To
> me it all suggests a Creator who set things in
> motion according to specific physical laws.


So the universe is so vast and complicated that the only possible explanation is that it had a creator?

Ok.

So now, who created this creator? What? No one!?


So the universe is so complex it requires a creator, but the creator of the universe (who must be vastly more complex than his own creation) doesn't require a creator?

That makes zero sense.

Using your logic, can't we just assume the universe is as complex and complicated as the creator you believe in, and thus dispense with the idea of a creator entirely?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: November 01, 2011 09:32PM

Hell is a place near Fukushima. What a wasteland.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: hoocoodanode ()
Date: November 01, 2011 10:36PM

SoulStirrer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would anyone want to risk eternity in hell.
> They say there is no hell. How can they be sure ?
> Why take that risK? What you believe about life
> after death will be put to the test after you die.
> The truth is- we ALL DIE. Why would you want to
> deny hell, when there might be one- and you very
> well could go there- if you dont have Jesus Christ
> in your life to cover your sins?

Sounds like you want people to hedge their bets. I bet that will pull the wool over the eyes of Yeshua, his daddy, and the spook.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: November 02, 2011 12:24AM

Believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> My belief is not misplaced though; I'm not a
> lunatic who believes everything he/she hears or
> sees. I don't believe in Santa Claus or the tooth
> fairy or Islam or Scientology or a 6000-year-old
> earth or lots of other stuff,


It sounds to me like what you really believe in is some intergalactic space alien and not the Christian god. You can't pick and choose certain parts of the bible to believe in. Are you in or out?


> but after very
> careful reflection I'm convinced this is the real
> deal, and I hope people will investigate for
> themselves and reach the right conclusion.


I hope you think about it more carefully and also come to the right conclusion.

Options: ReplyQuote
.
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: November 02, 2011 02:13AM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 05:46PM by Alias.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: November 02, 2011 02:15AM

Hell is being married to Alias and having to listen to her self absorbed nagging all day long; the worst offenders have to eat her cooking.

Options: ReplyQuote
.
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: November 02, 2011 03:38AM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 05:44PM by Alias.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: November 02, 2011 09:36AM

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh, shit, here comes the personal "good friend"
> anecdote.


Therein lies the biggest difference between us, Alias. I have a lot of "good friends". I'm sorry you don't, but It's easy to understand why.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 02, 2011 11:24AM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It sounds to me like what you really believe in is
> some intergalactic space alien and not the
> Christian god. You can't pick and choose certain
> parts of the bible to believe in. Are you in or
> out?
>

I'm definitely in for Jesus Christ, and not picking and choosing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 02, 2011 11:33AM

Someone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> This is extremely weak, so weak that it tells me
> that there is no evidence. You seem fairly
> reasonable, unless you're just pretending to be so
> you'll taken more seriously, so how can you really
> present this as evidence? There's absolutely
> nothing there that can be classified as such.

I guess like I said in a previous post, if it was all as obvious as your hand in front of your face or 1+1=2, it would be simple and there would be nothing to debate. When I used the term "evidence" I did not intend to mean it as "proof." The things I listed are evidence. Christ gave us the evidence we needed, now it is up to us to make the choice, for better or worst.

Even the disciple Thomas who witnessed firsthand Jesus' resurrection doubted him, and said he needed to see the nail holes in his hands and feet to believe. After getting the opportunity to inspect for himself, he believed. "Jesus said to him, 'Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.' "

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 02, 2011 11:40AM

LogicFail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So the universe is so vast and complicated that
> the only possible explanation is that it had a
> creator?
>
> Ok.
>
> So now, who created this creator? What? No one!?
>
>
>
> So the universe is so complex it requires a
> creator, but the creator of the universe (who must
> be vastly more complex than his own creation)
> doesn't require a creator?
>
> That makes zero sense.
>
> Using your logic, can't we just assume the
> universe is as complex and complicated as the
> creator you believe in, and thus dispense with the
> idea of a creator entirely?

This is a difficulty posed with any metaphysical worldview of where everything came from, or if it even came from anything at all (such as the view that everything erupted from a "singularity" of nothingness). That is, where did creation come from, and should we assume a creator, and if we do, who created that creator, and who created the creator who created the creator, and so on? This is a paradox we cannot explain.

So, there is nothing uniquely "failing" about the view of God as the creator. I cannot definitively explain where God came from -- no one can, just as they cannot explain where the Universe came from. God just is and always was, and I can't wrap my head around it. Just as I cannot wrap my head around the idea of the Universe coming from nothing. I see order in the universe and in life, I don't think it's a series of random events that came to pass.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: poopstick ()
Date: November 02, 2011 11:48AM

If believing in God is something that makes you happy, fine. But why do you believe that if you don't worship Jesus as your savior you will go to hell?

Is god so vain that he must have everyone worship him?

I mean, if I live a good life, why do I have to spend time worshiping god/jesus?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: November 02, 2011 11:52AM

Believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just as I cannot wrap my head
> around the idea of the Universe coming from
> nothing. I see order in the universe and in life,
> I don't think it's a series of random events that
> came to pass.


Who ever said the universe came from nothing? Not any scientists I know of. The truth is we don't know yet. We are getting closer though. Once we can peer through the microwave curtain, which was created at or very close to the time of the Big Bang, we'll have a better idea.

But don't worry. Once we explain how the big bang happened (scientifically), religion will find a nice spin for where God can fit in, like it's done for the last 2000 years.If you're religious, the question should not be how the universe was created, but why. What was Gods point? What did he get out of it? Praise and worship? An ant farm experiment in obedience? WTF?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 02, 2011 01:06PM

poopstick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If believing in God is something that makes you
> happy, fine. But why do you believe that if you
> don't worship Jesus as your savior you will go to
> hell?
>
> Is god so vain that he must have everyone worship
> him?
>
> I mean, if I live a good life, why do I have to
> spend time worshiping god/jesus?

Awesome question poopstick! (man I can safely say I never thought I would ever be stringing the words 'awesome question' and 'poopstick' together).

I think you have pretty much answered the question correctly: the Bible says that God is, in fact, a jealous God, and desires our worship. I don't know if that's vanity, per se, but he apparently does want people to worship him and is angered when we choose to worship other things like false idols, money, fame, etc.

Living a good life is a great thing, but Christianity says it's not enough for salvation. We are taught that our salvation really has nothing to do with our good works, that it would be impossible for us to atone for the sins of mankind through our good works. It is only by grace, by Christ giving his life to save humanity (for those who accept him) that we are we able to have salvation. There's a lot of writing done on why this is the case, I could never explain it or do it justice here, and I'm not a good authority on it in any case.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: village idiot ()
Date: November 02, 2011 01:41PM

Numbers asked why God bothered to create the world

Revelation 4:11 (NASB)

11 "Worthy art Thou, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou didst create all things, and because of Thy will they existed, and were created."

All things came into being through the will of God. It was God's pleasure that the universe and everything in it be created. He therefore had a purpose in mind.

Isaiah 45:18(NASB)

18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, But formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.

God's purpose in creating the world was that it might be inhabited. It was therefore God's desires that the living creatures of the world would bring him pleasure.


At the end of the day, why does God do anything one way or another? Only God could answer that question and I think it is foolish that humans would even think that God would owe them an answer. But yet, He does provide answers anyway.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 02, 2011 01:50PM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Who ever said the universe came from nothing? Not
> any scientists I know of. The truth is we don't
> know yet. We are getting closer though. Once we
> can peer through the microwave curtain, which was
> created at or very close to the time of the Big
> Bang, we'll have a better idea.
>
> But don't worry. Once we explain how the big bang
> happened (scientifically), religion will find a
> nice spin for where God can fit in, like it's done
> for the last 2000 years.If you're religious, the
> question should not be how the universe was
> created, but why. What was Gods point? What did he
> get out of it? Praise and worship? An ant farm
> experiment in obedience? WTF?

My understanding is that what was at the start of the Big Bang is a source of much scientific debate in the field of cosmology, and the idea that it formed in/from/of a singularity marks the "classic" view of the big bang. But there are many other models, and no one knows yet, as you've said. Stephen Hawking apparently said this in "Origin of the Universe" (1988), not sure where the majority of opinion lies now in regards to singularities:

"It has been interesting to watch the change in the climate of opinion on singularities. When I was a graduate student, almost no one took singularities seriously. Now, as a result of the singularity theorems, nearly everyone believes that the universe began with a singularity. In the meantime, however, I have changed my mind: I still believe that the universe had a beginning, but that it was not a singularity."

I don't have a list of all the scientists that still subscribe to the singularity model, but I wasn't really attempting to push that theory. I was just commenting in general on the amazing unknown of how the universe started, if there was indeed a start.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: poopstick ()
Date: November 02, 2011 02:45PM

Believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Awesome question poopstick! (man I can safely say
> I never thought I would ever be stringing the
> words 'awesome question' and 'poopstick'
> together).
>
> I think you have pretty much answered the question
> correctly: the Bible says that God is, in fact, a
> jealous God, and desires our worship. I don't know
> if that's vanity, per se, but he apparently does
> want people to worship him and is angered when we
> choose to worship other things like false idols,
> money, fame, etc.
>
> Living a good life is a great thing, but
> Christianity says it's not enough for salvation.
> We are taught that our salvation really has
> nothing to do with our good works, that it would
> be impossible for us to atone for the sins of
> mankind through our good works. It is only by
> grace, by Christ giving his life to save humanity
> (for those who accept him) that we are we able to
> have salvation. There's a lot of writing done on
> why this is the case, I could never explain it or
> do it justice here, and I'm not a good authority
> on it in any case.


I wouldn't lose too much sleep pondering why god needs people to worship him. There is no reasonable answer to that question.

The real reason you are told that god needs you to worship him is to support the church. The church needs followers in order to maintain power and financial funding.

This is why they created indulgences in medieval times... so you could pay your way into heaven. They found that that practice was a little too corrupt for most people to handle. So instead of directly paying money for eternal bliss, you only need to follow and worship god. And by following god (through a church), you are supporting the churches power structure, and likely funding them through donations.

But, even if you do believe in god, go to church, worship him, donate to the church and it IS all a lie... at least you will have most likely lived a good life. And to that I can raise to cup of Christ's blood and cheers you. Just don't let me catch you picketing soldiers funerals, blowing up an abortion clinic or otherwise spew hate in the name of god.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: RankineCycler ()
Date: November 02, 2011 03:02PM

poopstick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The real reason you are told that god needs you to
> worship him is to support the church. The church
> needs followers in order to maintain power and
> financial funding.

There are many who belong to a church but do not belong to God.

There are many who belong to God but do not belong to a church.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 02, 2011 05:48PM

poopstick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't lose too much sleep pondering why god
> needs people to worship him. There is no
> reasonable answer to that question.
>
> The real reason you are told that god needs you to
> worship him is to support the church. The church
> needs followers in order to maintain power and
> financial funding.
>
> This is why they created indulgences in medieval
> times... so you could pay your way into heaven.
> They found that that practice was a little too
> corrupt for most people to handle. So instead of
> directly paying money for eternal bliss, you only
> need to follow and worship god. And by following
> god (through a church), you are supporting the
> churches power structure, and likely funding them
> through donations.
>
> But, even if you do believe in god, go to church,
> worship him, donate to the church and it IS all a
> lie... at least you will have most likely lived a
> good life. And to that I can raise to cup of
> Christ's blood and cheers you. Just don't let me
> catch you picketing soldiers funerals, blowing up
> an abortion clinic or otherwise spew hate in the
> name of god.

I'm not a Christian in order to prop up a church monetarily, etc. But I can definitely agree with you about the people picketing soldier's funerals, blowing up abortion clinics, etc. That crap has no place in society, I'm glad those acts will be judged for what they are. It's a real shame Christianity has in many cases through history been used for bad purposes. In addition to the victimization, it's turned off many people to the important underlying message.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: LogicFail ()
Date: November 02, 2011 07:26PM

Believe Wrote:

>
> So, there is nothing uniquely "failing" about the
> view of God as the creator. I cannot definitively
> explain where God came from -- no one can, just as
> they cannot explain where the Universe came from.
> God just is and always was, and I can't wrap my
> head around it. Just as I cannot wrap my head
> around the idea of the Universe coming from
> nothing. I see order in the universe and in life,
> I don't think it's a series of random events that
> came to pass.

That's perfectly acceptable as a belief. Just as long as you understand it's not, in any way, proof of God's existence.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Someone ()
Date: November 02, 2011 10:18PM

Believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > This is extremely weak, so weak that it tells
> me
> > that there is no evidence. You seem fairly
> > reasonable, unless you're just pretending to be
> so
> > you'll taken more seriously, so how can you
> really
> > present this as evidence? There's absolutely
> > nothing there that can be classified as such.
>
> I guess like I said in a previous post, if it was
> all as obvious as your hand in front of your face
> or 1+1=2, it would be simple and there would be
> nothing to debate. When I used the term "evidence"
> I did not intend to mean it as "proof." The things
> I listed are evidence. Christ gave us the evidence
> we needed, now it is up to us to make the choice,
> for better or worst.
>
> Even the disciple Thomas who witnessed firsthand
> Jesus' resurrection doubted him, and said he
> needed to see the nail holes in his hands and feet
> to believe. After getting the opportunity to
> inspect for himself, he believed. "Jesus said to
> him, 'Have you believed because you have seen me?
> Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
> believed.' "

Well,it seems to me that in the end it's a choice. If you want to believe you will, and if you don't or can't then you won't. I don't have whatever mental mechanism is necessary to believe in any sort of religion, although I was dragged to church for years and went to Sunday school and all that.

It must be nice to have "faith" though. So many easy answers to so many difficult questions, and maybe even a sense of purpose in life, but I can't pull it off. It's all so simplistic and man-made, and at its core corrupt. Enjoy it though, hopefully it will serve you well in some way, even if it is just perceived.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Bartolo Longo ()
Date: November 02, 2011 10:23PM

Amen.

Options: ReplyQuote
.
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: November 02, 2011 11:31PM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 05:42PM by Alias.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 03, 2011 10:13AM

Someone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Well,it seems to me that in the end it's a choice.
> If you want to believe you will, and if you don't
> or can't then you won't. I don't have whatever
> mental mechanism is necessary to believe in any
> sort of religion, although I was dragged to church
> for years and went to Sunday school and all that.
>
> It must be nice to have "faith" though. So many
> easy answers to so many difficult questions, and
> maybe even a sense of purpose in life, but I can't
> pull it off. It's all so simplistic and man-made,
> and at its core corrupt. Enjoy it though,
> hopefully it will serve you well in some way, even
> if it is just perceived.

Well put, and thanks. I think you've summarized it well! (Well, I don't agree with the simplistic/man-made/corrupt-at-its-core sentence, but other than that)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: JBass ()
Date: November 03, 2011 10:23AM

God doesnt exist. Believe me, Believe. There is no lord and savior.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Hell is a very real place !
Posted by: Believe ()
Date: November 03, 2011 11:43AM

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God doesnt exist. Believe me, Believe. There is
> no lord and savior.

Hey Satan, Y U So Silly?

Options: ReplyQuote


Your Name: 
Your Email (Optional): 
Subject: 
Attach a file
  • No file can be larger than 75 MB
  • All files together cannot be larger than 300 MB
  • 30 more file(s) can be attached to this message
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **         ********   ******   **     **   ******  
 **    **   **        **    **  **     **  **    ** 
 **    **   **        **        **     **  **       
 **    **   ******    **        **     **  **       
 *********  **        **        **     **  **       
       **   **        **    **  **     **  **    ** 
       **   ********   ******    *******    ******  
This forum powered by Phorum.