It's official the Chevy Volt wins 2011 car of the year! (Sorry if this pisses off Republicans who have been trying to drive electric cars in the dirt)
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Why do you think it's just republicans that are anti-hybrid? I'm a conservative, yet really don't pay much attention to the vehicles I have or drive. Though they do operate on 100% fossil fuel. I do know many other conservative voters who drive hybrid cars.

What kind of crap were you trying to start from a political sense by posting this thread? The issue I have with the Volt is the price. While I'll need a replacement commuter car within a few years, I don't see myself opting for a Volt, due to the cost.

Motor Trend can make it look good in a photo and a writeup, but they can't increase the sales figures.

No way the Volt should have won. GM's deceptive marketing advertised "230 MPG" until enough people called bullshit.

The cost to replace the battery system in the Volt is estimated at $8000. thanks but no thanks I will stick with my old fossil fuel car with the $100 battery.

Steve Jobless Wrote:
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> The cost to replace the battery system in the
> Volt is estimated at $8000. thanks but no thanks I
> will stick with my old fossil fuel car with the
> $100 battery.

I believe the "hybrid" system on the Prius is also in the range of $7,000 to replace. Not exactly cheap stuff.

Oh, and last week in I-66 (east bound), there was a truck that had stalled out due to a dead battery. They had to change the green arrows to the red "X" during rush hour so people didn't plow into the vehicle. I wonder how many times that guy got called names because of not being responsible in replacing his $100 battery and totally screwing up the commute for thousands of people?

Er, both Motor Trend and Car & Driver are famous for naming duds "Car of the Year." Check out these examples...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q1/dishonorable_mention_the_10_most_embarrassing_award_winners_in_automotive_history-feature

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

"1980 Chevrolet Citation: Motor Trend Car of the Year"

LoL... The Volt is a huge debacle. It's like GM isn't even trying anymore. Why not just build an upgraded EV-1? Seems like they would have an immediate orders list.

Motor Trend? Do they even matter anymore?

Who killed the electric car? American consumers, who don't want the fucking things.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

trogdor! Wrote:
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> It's like GM
> isn't even trying anymore.

Well why should they? They got free money from the government for running a shitty business, seems like that's working for them.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
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> Who killed the electric car? American consumers,
> who don't want the fucking things.




GM really did kill the electric car in the late 90s. With the EV1, they didn't allow purchases, only leases. When those leases ran out, many of the people that had been driving them wanted to buy them, GM flat out refused. When all the EV1s were turned in, GM immediately sent them to be crushed.

Think of how much development and advancement in battery capacity and electric motor design could have been achieved between the years of the EV1 and today.

Hopefully the Nissan Leaf is here to stay and is improved upon in the next few years.

I test drove Volt, is a good car @ ~$20K and you can compare it to Prius. But at roughly twice of that, it's way overpriced and economically doesn't make sense whatsoever.

eesh Wrote:
> GM really did kill the electric car in the late
> 90s. With the EV1, they didn't allow purchases,
> only leases. When those leases ran out, many of
> the people that had been driving them wanted to
> buy them, GM flat out refused. When all the EV1s
> were turned in, GM immediately sent them to be
> crushed.

It's because EV1 was overall a mediocre vehicle and would be a huge liability to GM to continue supporting it. However, it would probably be a good idea for the Government to support that program at least for the sake of development and advancement in technologies, just like you've mentioned. Instead, they support Volt now... too bad it's about 10 years too late.

Forget replacing the battery, how about disposing of the old batteries. Batteries are only slightly less toxic than nuclear waste. Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul.

All electric is a better solution than hybrids. Two power plants equal twice the problems.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
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> Who killed the electric car? American consumers,
> who don't want the fucking things.

Well, watching that documentary made me thing all the Hollywood elites would buy up thousands. Chevy sold 305 Volts last month.


The problem with the Volt and other fuel efficient cars like the Prius, is that once you factor in the premium you'll pay for the car over something like a Honda Civic or a Hyundai Sonata, you'll never break even on the purchase price unless gasoline goes up to $8 a gallon. And even then you'll only break even if you own the car before the price goes up, because naturally, once it goes up you'll pay a higher premium for the car.

Quick check of Edmunds and http://www.theactualmpg.com for the data below:

Prius 1 = $22,800 (base model, no options) 46.00 MPG
Elantra - $15,811 27.50 MPG
Civic = $16, 348 29.05 MPG

So, just to compare the Civic, your fuel costs will be about 1.58 % higher. If you drive 12,000 miles and gas is $3.50 a gallon:

Prius costs = $913.04
Civic costs= $1,445.78

So you saved $532.74 on gas. But you paid $6,452 more for that privilege.

So without even calculating the lost opportunity costs for that $6,452 premium, you would have to keep the Prius for over 12 years to make it a better deal than the Civic @$3.50 gas.

GM (Government Motors), GE (Government Electric), and the rest of the bailed-out zombies (viz. Japanese 'zombie banks') will only serve to hinder economic growth.

Bastiat advised us to take into consideration that which is unseen. We do not see what entrepreneurs could have done with the assets, we do not see who could have been employed and the money they could have made. Instead, we see zombie companies - sacks of meat that just won't die.

trogdor you didn't even add in the repair cost which are mandatory dealership trips. The battery for a prius is about $3000.00. You can't just go down to you local parts store and pick up one of those batteries. Even if you could you need special tool just to work on the electrical system on a hybrid/electric car.

I don't think the person who did the math on MPG of the VOLT understands ELECTRIC cars.

The Volt is an ELECTRIC car with an added gas generator for extended trips, not a hybrid.

The Volt can be used for trips up 40 mile using NO GAS at all.

The concept is simple. Most trips to the store, work, or friends are under 40 miles. Thus these trips will require NO GAS and just plug the car in when you get home to use again.

If you stay under 40 miles range than YOU NEVER NEED TO USE GAS AT ALL.

Voltaire Wrote:
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> I don't think the person who did the math on MPG
> of the VOLT understands ELECTRIC cars.
>
> The Volt is an ELECTRIC car with an added gas
> generator for extended trips, not a hybrid.
>
> The Volt can be used for trips up 40 mile using NO
> GAS at all.
>
> The concept is simple. Most trips to the store,
> work, or friends are under 40 miles. Thus these
> trips will require NO GAS and just plug the car in
> when you get home to use again.
>
> If you stay under 40 miles range than YOU NEVER
> NEED TO USE GAS AT ALL.

And when you plug it in at home, it is free to do so, right?

meter reader Wrote:
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> Voltaire Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't think the person who did the math on
> MPG
> > of the VOLT understands ELECTRIC cars.
> >
> > The Volt is an ELECTRIC car with an added gas
> > generator for extended trips, not a hybrid.
> >
> > The Volt can be used for trips up 40 mile using
> NO
> > GAS at all.
> >
> > The concept is simple. Most trips to the store,
> > work, or friends are under 40 miles. Thus
> these
> > trips will require NO GAS and just plug the car
> in
> > when you get home to use again.
> >
> > If you stay under 40 miles range than YOU NEVER
> > NEED TO USE GAS AT ALL.
>
> And when you plug it in at home, it is free to do
> so, right?

Oh now you're just being silly. LOL

Average cost to recharge the Volt is estimate at 25 cents.

Voltaire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> meter reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Voltaire Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I don't think the person who did the math on
> > MPG
> > > of the VOLT understands ELECTRIC cars.
> > >
> > > The Volt is an ELECTRIC car with an added gas
> > > generator for extended trips, not a hybrid.
> > >
> > > The Volt can be used for trips up 40 mile
> using
> > NO
> > > GAS at all.
> > >
> > > The concept is simple. Most trips to the
> store,
> > > work, or friends are under 40 miles. Thus
> > these
> > > trips will require NO GAS and just plug the
> car
> > in
> > > when you get home to use again.
> > >
> > > If you stay under 40 miles range than YOU
> NEVER
> > > NEED TO USE GAS AT ALL.
> >
> > And when you plug it in at home, it is free to
> do
> > so, right?
>
> Oh now you're just being silly. LOL
>
> Average cost to recharge the Volt is estimate at
> 25 cents.


I realize this is an anonymous message board and pulling facts from asses is fully expected, but do expect to get called on the bullshit. It costs about $40/month to recharge a Volt. Look it up, you might learn something. Or, you could just stick with the bullshit.....

meter reader Wrote:
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>
> I realize this is an anonymous message board and
> pulling facts from asses is fully expected, but do
> expect to get called on the bullshit. It costs
> about $40/month to recharge a Volt. Look it up,
> you might learn something. Or, you could just
> stick with the bullshit.....

That number is meaningless without more specifics. Obviously monthly recharging costs will vary depending on use. Someone who uses the full 40 mile range every day will certainly pay more to recharge than someone who drives 10 miles every other day.

Repubs Wrote:
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> It's official the Chevy Volt wins 2011 car of the
> year! (Sorry if this pisses off Republicans who
> have been trying to drive electric cars in the
> dirt)

Much like Consumer Reports - a lot of these "ratings" are based on which company shells out the most bucks to woo the editors. In this case GM is lobbying like crazy to try and get the sales figures up - the problem is they can't fight the reality of such an overpriced car in such a shitty economy.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Repubs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's official the Chevy Volt wins 2011 car of the
> year! (Sorry if this pisses off Republicans who
> have been trying to drive electric cars in the
> dirt)


It's official, you are a fucking moron and 7 months late faggot.Pull your head out of your ass.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/448592/508779.html#msg-508779



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2011 10:02AM by mcsmack.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Repubs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's official the Chevy Volt wins 2011 car of
> the
> > year! (Sorry if this pisses off Republicans
> who
> > have been trying to drive electric cars in the
> > dirt)
>
>
> It's official, you are a fucking moron and 7
> months late faggot.Pull your head out of your
> ass.
>
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/44
> 8592/508779.html#msg-508779

Leave it to mcsmack to turn the conversation into a third grade level name calling thread. Just ignore his posts as usual and continue on with the adult conversations about fuel efficiency and price point.

LaborParty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Repubs Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It's official the Chevy Volt wins 2011 car of
> > the
> > > year! (Sorry if this pisses off Republicans
> > who
> > > have been trying to drive electric cars in
> the
> > > dirt)
> >
> >
> > It's official, you are a fucking moron and 7
> > months late faggot.Pull your head out of your
> > ass.
> >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/44
>
> > 8592/508779.html#msg-508779
>
> Leave it to mcsmack to turn the conversation into
> a third grade level name calling thread. Just
> ignore his posts as usual and continue on with the
> adult conversations about fuel efficiency and
> price point.

Sure! But as I pointed out I only covered this topic when it happened in real time 7 MONTHS AGO IDIOT! But go ahead and, "continue on with the adult conversations about fuel efficiency and price point".

Voltaire Wrote:
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> The Volt is an ELECTRIC car with an added gas
> generator for extended trips, not a hybrid.

This was the initial idea behind Volt. However, the actual implementation was different and Volt is much closer to a typical hybrid, incl. its transmission, than you think. It's pretty much a hybrid with a bigger battery.

Interesting tidbit: Volt's battery is twice the capacity it needs. This is done to keep the battery above 50% discharge level ALL the time, i.e. even when it shows 'empty', to extend the battery life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2011 10:32AM by Price.

I was reading that GM is expecting to increase the Volt's electric range to 60 miles in 2012 to beat\under cut the new electric Toyota Prius that is set to be released in 2013.

It's going to be all about range now with the electric cars. 40 miles is good if you live in a suburban area with close shops but not if you live in the country.

Atom Wrote:
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> Forget replacing the battery, how about disposing
> of the old batteries. Batteries are only slightly
> less toxic than nuclear waste. Talk about robbing
> Peter to pay Paul.
>
> All electric is a better solution than hybrids.
> Two power plants equal twice the problems.



An all electric car has even more batteries than a hybrid...

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forget replacing the battery, how about
> disposing
> > of the old batteries. Batteries are only
> slightly
> > less toxic than nuclear waste. Talk about
> robbing
> > Peter to pay Paul.
> >
> > All electric is a better solution than hybrids.
>
> > Two power plants equal twice the problems.
>
>
>
> An all electric car has even more batteries than a
> hybrid...

True but you're only going to get about 100 miles more from an all electric car and then you'll have to wait 9 hrs to recharge. Electric car supplemented by a gas generator, like the Volt, is the way to go.

No way is gas going to die.

People are not going to switch from gas to electricity. The streets and houses are piped for gas. Nobody is going to waste money on "electric lights" that cost a fortune and burn out. With gas all you have to do is light the flame and you have light.

Nobody is going to "wire" there house for "electric light." Electricity is dangerous in a house. So that foolish talk! Gas is here to stay, Edison is a fool.

.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

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Actually a lot cities are converting their buses to hydrogen now. It's a huge savings.
Attachments:

Hydrogen Wrote:
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> Actually a lot cities are converting their buses
> to hydrogen now. It's a huge savings.

Right. And where hydrogen is coming from?

Price Wrote:
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> Hydrogen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually a lot cities are converting their
> buses
> > to hydrogen now. It's a huge savings.
>
> Right. And where hydrogen is coming from?

Landfill gas. As trash breaks down landfills release methane and hydrogen gas.

Why the hell do some cars, especially the Volt, have to look like some 14 year old's sci-fi sketch in class because the teacher is boring?

This "X-treme" trend in car styling has become fucking stupid. The Volt's outrageous cost is partly from all the feature bloat, styling bullshit, and application of far too much technology to address the problem.

Why not go the opposite route and make a car that's easy on the eyes and easy to buy? Resurrect the old early 60's Chevy II body, make it lighter in weight, and put in a bulletproof electric drive system. Options could include the GM EV-1 drivetrain, a 2-speed automatic for hilly terrain, extra batteries, or even air conditioning. That and a 70 mile range in mixed driving is all we need. All this extra X-treme bullshit can be left out.

Basic model $20K out the door. Electric cars are commuters and it's best to sell them as such.

Mong0Lloyd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why the hell do some cars, especially the Volt,
> have to look like some 14 year old's sci-fi sketch
> in class because the teacher is boring?
>
> This "X-treme" trend in car styling has become
> fucking stupid. The Volt's outrageous cost is
> partly from all the feature bloat, styling
> bullshit, and application of far too much
> technology to address the problem.
>
> Why not go the opposite route and make a car
> that's easy on the eyes and easy to buy?
> Resurrect the old early 60's Chevy II body, make
> it lighter in weight, and put in a bulletproof
> electric drive system. Options could include the
> GM EV-1 drivetrain, a 2-speed automatic for hilly
> terrain, extra batteries, or even air
> conditioning. That and a 70 mile range in mixed
> driving is all we need. All this extra X-treme
> bullshit can be left out.
>
> Basic model $20K out the door. Electric cars are
> commuters and it's best to sell them as such.

^ Definition of an old fart ^

TrashTalker Wrote:
> Landfill gas. As trash breaks down landfills
> release methane and hydrogen gas.

What's the % of hydrogen in landfill gases and how much $$/energy it takes to extract enough of it to power anything meaningful? What exactly is "huge savings"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 12:48PM by Price.

Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TrashTalker Wrote:
> > Landfill gas. As trash breaks down landfills
> > release methane and hydrogen gas.
>
> What's the % of hydrogen in landfill gases and how
> much $$/energy it takes to extract enough of it to
> power anything meaningful? What exactly is "huge
> savings"?

Sewer gas is a complex mixture of toxic and non-toxic gases produced and collected in sewage systems by the decomposition of organic household or industrial wastes, typical components of Sewage.[1]
Sewer gases may include hydrogen sulfide, ammonia, methane, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides. Improper disposal of petroleum products such as gasoline and mineral spirits contribute to sewer gas hazards. Sewer gases are of concern due to their odor, health effects, and potential for creating fire or explosions.

Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TrashTalker Wrote:
> > Landfill gas. As trash breaks down landfills
> > release methane and hydrogen gas.
>
> What's the % of hydrogen in landfill gases and how
> much $$/energy it takes to extract enough of it to
> power anything meaningful? What exactly is "huge
> savings"?

Methane is a vent-able and recoverable gas off old landfills. many existing land fills have vents that continually burn off trapped subterranean methane.

Hydrogen is a good energy source but I think it takes as much or more energy to create than it's worth.

Get ready for Mitsubishi's attempt at an electric car!


http://i.mitsubishicars.com/?ic=MN_vehicle-menu_100007_04012011


-
Attachments:

Early 2012 at $22,000 with only a range of 60 miles. I'll still take a Volt over that any day.

So, in order to have a "greener" world, we need to hurry up and fill more landfills with garbage. Got it.

Jesus H on a Pogo Stick! First there's some 14 year old's sci-fi sketch of a cartoon car with the Chevy Volt. NOW we have Mitsubishi coming out with a "car" that looks ashamed of itself. It looks like a rolling butt plug. Nissan Leaf is another exercise in psychologically disturbing autos. I guess the packing crate styling bullshit is passe now.

There is a sub-culture among the overeducated that think such visual dissonance is cutting edge. These are the same elite wannabes who have artsy paintings of corpses on their living room walls or really disturbing scenes on canvas and think that's avant garde. People like that run the styling studios of all carmakers now, unfortunately.

Mong0Lloyd Wrote:
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>
> There is a sub-culture among the overeducated




What do you consider overeducated?