Following the news as of late, who else has been keeping up with the happenings of this "Student Loan Forgiveness" petition? Speaking as two recent graduates here, we think it is a load of BS. Thoughts?

Those pottery pushing penny mongering little whorebags should have thought about how they were gonna pay for these loans before they even applied to school, eh? I worked my ass off and paid out of pocket, when will I see my "post-party life credit card forgiveness petition"?

Agreed, if you need your loans forgiven why don't you teach in an inner city school or join the peace corps.

This gets me mad rick because I bet the majority of the students/former students requesting forgiveness are sitting at home not working because every job is beneath them. Get off you ass and sense of entitlement and get a job.

Firstly, credit card debt is unsecured and can be expunged via bankruptcy. Student loan has the odious distinction of being untouchable. In reply to your question - I'd advise contacting an attorney.

Secondly, FFX - I would advise you to look at the recent example of McDonalds - it was easier to get into Harvard than get hired on their last 'hiring day'. Furthermore, finding menial positions is nightmarish for anyone with a 4yr degree in that one must chose between reporting the degree and being written off as 'overqualified', and having a >4 year gap in one's employment history. Both of which are frowned upon by HR, and given the pool of applicants available, they have the luxury of being picky.

Disclaimer - dropped out last semester when I realised my money was better spent elsewhere.

O'Doyle Rules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those pottery pushing penny mongering little
> whorebags should have thought about how they were
> gonna pay for these loans before they even applied
> to school, eh? I worked my ass off and paid out of
> pocket, when will I see my "post-party life credit
> card forgiveness petition"?

I used to work at Sallie Mae and ran several of their marketing groups.

Regarding student loan debt, have you looked at income-based repayment as a realistic option against the more unrealistic total debt-forgiveness agenda?

income-based repayment (iba) was introduced just a few years ago as a plan to help recent graduates who were working but could not afford the standard repayment plan that federal loans (stafford, plus, etc) carried. It simply requires you to verify your current income, which you have to do each year, to potentially get a dramatically reduced monthly payment for your federal loans.

even if you are not making a large income, as many folks are just out of school or even a few years down the road, you can use this plan to stay above water, keep your credit rating secure, and keep your end of the credit covenant you made with your lender.

i was amazed at the vitriol that was aimed toward us as a lender while i worked at sallie mae - at the end of the day, we didnt set college tuition prices, we didnt determine whether folks would get hired after they graduated, and most importantly, we paid for students' education up front (eg like a mortgage). but lenders, as thats where the bill comes from, bear the brunt of the publics' ire...

hope this detail helped.

Work is work, money is money. McDonalds is not going to write you off for having a 4 year degree. If you need money to pay for your expenses, get a job. It doesn't matter what you are doing, get a job and make it happen.

A gap in emnployment can easily be answered simply by saying "I was in school". A future employer would not make a big deal out of that.

I guess the future of America is too good to make money doing certain things as necessary, but is not above begging for a bail out when they cannot or will not make a payment on debt they have accrued.

Ellipsis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Secondly, FFX - I would advise you to look at the
> recent example of McDonalds - it was easier to get
> into Harvard than get hired on their last 'hiring
> day'. Furthermore, finding menial positions is
> nightmarish for anyone with a 4yr degree in that
> one must chose between reporting the degree and
> being written off as 'overqualified', and having a
> >4 year gap in one's employment history. Both of
> which are frowned upon by HR, and given the pool
> of applicants available, they have the luxury of
> being picky.

I really am starting to take the "go learn a skilled trade" position. All of those guys make a decent living and have a skill set that may allow them to earn money on the side.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Graduates cannot be bothered with loan repayments they need said money to backpack across Europe and volunteer to save sea turtles in Costa Rica. Cummon' now, college was so difficult work is now out of the question! >:l

I have over $53,000 in student loans from GWU. I look for a job maybe a few times a week and I apply to one or two a week. My debt is mounting because I cannot make payments because I do not have a job. To be honest I am not about to work a retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have a degree in marketing. I am one of probably hundreds of thousands that cannot find a job after graduation. We need our debt forgiven because I can't have this over my head when I plan on beginning my career. It is not fair.

Go talk with a military recruiter. They might have some programs that will forgive your loans in exchange for military service. Obama isn't going to come up with a forgiveness bill because the Republicans will shoot that down faster than a terrorist plane full of Muslims.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have over $53,000 in student loans from GWU. I
> look for a job maybe a few times a week and I
> apply to one or two a week. My debt is mounting
> because I cannot make payments because I do not
> have a job. To be honest I am not about to work a
> retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have a
> degree in marketing. I am one of probably hundreds
> of thousands that cannot find a job after
> graduation. We need our debt forgiven because I
> can't have this over my head when I plan on
> beginning my career. It is not fair.


Bravo sir. Keep up the good fight.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have over $53,000 in student loans from GWU. I
> look for a job maybe a few times a week and I
> apply to one or two a week. My debt is mounting
> because I cannot make payments because I do not
> have a job. To be honest I am not about to work a
> retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have a
> degree in marketing. I am one of probably hundreds
> of thousands that cannot find a job after
> graduation. We need our debt forgiven because I
> can't have this over my head when I plan on
> beginning my career. It is not fair.

You chose to apply for and accept student loans. You chose to go to GWU. You chose to get a degree in marketing. You choose to apply to one or two jobs a week. Take responsibility for your choices, motherfucker!!

Try the Military Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go talk with a military recruiter. They might
> have some programs that will forgive your loans in
> exchange for military service. Obama isn't going
> to come up with a forgiveness bill because the
> Republicans will shoot that down faster than a
> terrorist plane full of Muslims.

^^What he said^^ I can tell you right now talk to the Army or Marines if you want to know about student loan forgiveness but from what I can tell you not all of your loans will be repaid, only the government loans, private loans are different. I say talk with the Army over the Marines because Army will send you to basic within 6 months, Marines they are processing for end of 2012, plus you can still pick your MOS. Air force is processing for 2014 and Navy I think 2013. Military is overloaded 140%

poopstick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glebe RD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have over $53,000 in student loans from GWU.
> I
> > look for a job maybe a few times a week and I
> > apply to one or two a week. My debt is mounting
> > because I cannot make payments because I do not
> > have a job. To be honest I am not about to work
> a
> > retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have a
> > degree in marketing. I am one of probably
> hundreds
> > of thousands that cannot find a job after
> > graduation. We need our debt forgiven because I
> > can't have this over my head when I plan on
> > beginning my career. It is not fair.
>
>
> Bravo sir. Keep up the good fight.


Congratulation, you just proved your absolute laziness. Not only can you fail to voice a supportive opinion for this so-called "good fight", no doubt your response on the funderground was posted from that Ipad 2 you bought with prior student loans. I hope this is taken as purely ad hominem, because you are lazy and acting like just another entitled graduate. I just graduated and worked my ass off to pay everything out of pocket, and I still work to pay bills and I don't complain about it because I understand loans, and money in general. There's only one way to skin a donkey you dickwaffle, and that's getting creative and trying to manage the only person you no doubt care about - yourself. Hippie.

I am guessing most of those saying "I worked my ass off to pay for my education" are from my era when it was actually possible to make enough money working after school and during the summers in HS to be able to pay a large chunk of your state college education costs. Today you'd probably be lucky if you could make enough money to cover the costs of your books. When I left for college I spent around $100 on an electric typewriter, dictionary and thesaurus. Now kids need a computer, printer and smart phone (yes required for some classes).

I do have a problem with a system that says it is ok to borrow a ton of money to start up a business and then walk away from it in bankruptcy, but it is not ok to walk away from loans you incurred to get an education, especially when that education was in an area like business or engineering which is designed to teach you the skills needed to work.

That said Glebe RD, you need to rethink your priorities. You got a degree in marketing, but working retail is beneath you?!? Retail is nothing more than marketing on a one on one basis.

Colonial Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glebe RD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have over $53,000 in student loans from GWU.
> I
> > look for a job maybe a few times a week and I
> > apply to one or two a week. My debt is mounting
> > because I cannot make payments because I do not
> > have a job. To be honest I am not about to work
> a
> > retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have a
> > degree in marketing. I am one of probably
> hundreds
> > of thousands that cannot find a job after
> > graduation. We need our debt forgiven because I
> > can't have this over my head when I plan on
> > beginning my career. It is not fair.
>
> You chose to apply for and accept student loans.
> You chose to go to GWU. You chose to get a degree
> in marketing. You choose to apply to one or two
> jobs a week. Take responsibility for your choices,
> motherfucker!!


Colonial, you should try living a day in my life before you start telling me what to do.

Bill N Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am guessing most of those saying "I worked my
> ass off to pay for my education" are from my era
> when it was actually possible to make enough money
> working after school and during the summers in HS
> to be able to pay a large chunk of your state
> college education costs. Today you'd probably be
> lucky if you could make enough money to cover the
> costs of your books. When I left for college I
> spent around $100 on an electric typewriter,
> dictionary and thesaurus. Now kids need a
> computer, printer and smart phone (yes required
> for some classes).
>
> I do have a problem with a system that says it is
> ok to borrow a ton of money to start up a business
> and then walk away from it in bankruptcy, but it
> is not ok to walk away from loans you incurred to
> get an education, especially when that education
> was in an area like business or engineering which
> is designed to teach you the skills needed to
> work.
>
> That said Glebe RD, you need to rethink your
> priorities. You got a degree in marketing, but
> working retail is beneath you?!? Retail is
> nothing more than marketing on a one on one basis.


Derp. I'm 24 Bill Nye. High expenses such as those mentioned are still incurred only through a pre-existing condition of laziness. If you're resourceful, you can pick up a printer, netbook, and wi-fi capable device (used in place of a smartphone) for only a few hundred bones. You sell what you don't need in your life and you buy what you do need. This includes books - yes those can get very pricey but you make do and you become resourceful. If you need a loan for books it's only because you haven't yet exhausted all your available options. It's as simple as that, to argue anything further is a issue of needs vs. wants, and does nothing to stipulate one is at the mercy of the lending system.

Bill N Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That said Glebe RD, you need to rethink your
> priorities. You got a degree in marketing, but
> working retail is beneath you?!? Retail is
> nothing more than marketing on a one on one basis.

I got a degree so I would not have to work a retail job, and I do not plan on working a retail job.

Education is a privilege, not a right. You need to earn that. If you can't get a loan and you want it pay for it out of pocket at part-time status. If you take a loan, take responsibility for what you do and pay it off.

I like this information glebe is providing, it has been very helpfull and would like more information on where i can find this petition glebe? thnx! go huskies!

OK I hate this topic. I really really do because I have to side with the Republicans on this one. I tend to lean a little to the left but this is a bit ridiculous. Forgiveness for a loan is not going to help the problem. I graduated in 2006 and yes I have student loans. When I got out of school I could not find a job and quickly my amnesty period waned fast. I had to take a part time job as an IT technician making $10/hr. I have a degree in Math from Virginia Tech and I was working a part time job. It was depressing but it is what I had to do cause I had bills to pay. It was my choice to take out the loan and thus it was my responsibility to deal with those choices. I just 5 years later am an IT manager and looking towards the prospects of a solid career and nearly paid off my loans. If you have a bill to pay take whatever job you can get to pay them it is your responsibility. If you have to take a job at Old Navy then so be it. You do not have to post it on your resume. Who knows maybe you start as a sales rep, then in time assistant manager, then who knows maybe you get hired to corporate. The best way to get a job is from the inside. See if you can get a low paying internship, just do something. Again I hate this thread.

LOL at people complaining about student loans. So many scholarships go unused every year, do some fucking research and apply to various scholarships before jumping into student loans. You also can go into the military for four years and get out and use the GI Bill. It isn't hard.


TIP: If you're going to use student loans and are worried about your ability to pay in the future, get a degree that has some real use. Getting a BA in Art History or Literature or Marketing from a university that costs $50k a year is just dumb and you deserve what you get.

I do feel sorry for these kids coming out of college with two car loans worth of debt, if not more. I wonder if it's really worth it. My co-worker is 30 and still has $48,000 in outstanding loan debt. Of course, he went to an out of state private college that cost him about $100,000. That was a dumb move from the get go, but he's going to be paying that off for another 15 years. Crazy.

My kids will have some money for college if they choose to go, but purposely not enough to give them a free ride. I think that they should have some equity in their education as well. I found that of my peers, the ones going to school on daddy's dime didn't take it seriously and did too much fucking off.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Loan (Noun): A thing that is borrowed, esp. a sum of money that is expected to be paid back with interest.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Colonial, you should try living a day in my life
> before you start telling me what to do.

Like you, I am a GWU graduate with tens of thousands of dollars still outstanding in student loans. Unlike you, I assume responsibility for my choices and work full-time at a less-than-ideal job to repay these loans (on time).

> I got a degree so I would not have to work a retail
> job, and I do not plan on working a retail job.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got a degree so I would not have to work a
> retail job, and I do not plan on working a retail
> job.

No wonder you don't have a job yet.

It is 2011. Maybe 20% of your peers graduated and got decent jobs. Maybe another 40% got jobs that were beneath them, and the rest are bumming off parents and friends. A year from now there will be another crop of kids coming out competing for jobs. Who do you think the employers in 2012 are going to hire? The new kids fresh out of school (perhaps); The kids who took jobs beneath them and then started moving upwards (perhaps); or the kids who spent the past year doing nothing but "looking for a job" (unlikely).

This is just typical of the US Government overstepping its bounds once again. First Social Security/Medicare. Now repaying loans from retarted kids who cant find a job. Honestly just work at Petsmart, its like the best job ever. Next thing you know the government will start paying my back when i default on my car loan for my ferrari

Bill N Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is 2011. Maybe 20% of your peers graduated and
> got decent jobs. Maybe another 40% got jobs that
> were beneath them, and the rest are bumming off
> parents and friends. A year from now there will
> be another crop of kids coming out competing for
> jobs. Who do you think the employers in 2012 are
> going to hire? The new kids fresh out of school
> (perhaps); The kids who took jobs beneath them and
> then started moving upwards (perhaps); or the kids
> who spent the past year doing nothing but "looking
> for a job" (unlikely).

I do not understand what solution you are presenting. I also think your statistics are incorrect.

O'Doyle Rules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> poopstick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Glebe RD Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I have over $53,000 in student loans from
> GWU.
> > I
> > > look for a job maybe a few times a week and I
> > > apply to one or two a week. My debt is
> mounting
> > > because I cannot make payments because I do
> not
> > > have a job. To be honest I am not about to
> work
> > a
> > > retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have
> a
> > > degree in marketing. I am one of probably
> > hundreds
> > > of thousands that cannot find a job after
> > > graduation. We need our debt forgiven because
> I
> > > can't have this over my head when I plan on
> > > beginning my career. It is not fair.
> >
> >
> > Bravo sir. Keep up the good fight.
>
>
> Congratulation, you just proved your absolute
> laziness. Not only can you fail to voice a
> supportive opinion for this so-called "good
> fight", no doubt your response on the funderground
> was posted from that Ipad 2 you bought with prior
> student loans. I hope this is taken as purely ad
> hominem, because you are lazy and acting like just
> another entitled graduate. I just graduated and
> worked my ass off to pay everything out of pocket,
> and I still work to pay bills and I don't complain
> about it because I understand loans, and money in
> general. There's only one way to skin a donkey you
> dickwaffle, and that's getting creative and trying
> to manage the only person you no doubt care about
> - yourself. Hippie.


Easy killer, I was being sarcastic... just as I assume Glebe Rd is. No reasonable person would apply to two jobs a week and then claim that it's "unfair" that they can't find work. I got a business degree and work a 9-5 to pay my way. So take the cock out of your ass and stick it back in your mouth where it belongs.

FFX Antelope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This gets me mad rick because I bet the majority
> of the students/former students requesting
> forgiveness are sitting at home not working
> because every job is beneath them. Get off you ass
> and sense of entitlement and get a job.

+100

Fuckin A right. I busted my ass working to pay for college at night while employed in a garage in the daytime full time. Hot as shit in the summer, cold as a witches tit in the winter. These half ass pampered dicks wont just take any job they want to start at the top with a six figure salary.

You dont want to work then fuck you. I hope the government garnishes your future paychecks for a hundred years, that is if you ever get off your ass and work.

I will be graduating from GMU in 2012. It has taken me almost 11 years to complete my bachelors. I saved up enough, and with scholarships and pell grants made it through Nova for my first two years with an associates. I got a fulltime job, and transferred to Mason to take classes on the side. I saved for 2 years and had enough money to do 1 year or 3 semisters of mason fulltime. I quit my job, but ran out of money before I could finish, with 10 courses left I had no alternative but to join the military. after AIT, and a deployment and a nearly 4 year haitus I've come back to finish, working full time. I'll have graduated with no student loans in a little over a decade, with a continous resume full of experience. If I can do it, why can't you?

The consensus among HR personnel is that overqualified workers are no good because:
-they have a chip on their shoulder and are disgruntled for taking a position they feel is 'beneath' them &
-they will take their over-qualification and find a better paying job the first instant they get, making the company go through the trouble of rehiring and retraining all over again.

As for employment gaps, it presents a risk, one an applicant can never completely account for.

Given that this is an employer's market, my argument is this - having either can disqualify one from even menial labour given the sheer numbers of applicants available.

Roadhouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Work is work, money is money. McDonalds is not
> going to write you off for having a 4 year degree.
> If you need money to pay for your expenses, get a
> job. It doesn't matter what you are doing, get a
> job and make it happen.
>
> A gap in emnployment can easily be answered simply
> by saying "I was in school". A future employer
> would not make a big deal out of that.
>
> I guess the future of America is too good to make
> money doing certain things as necessary, but is
> not above begging for a bail out when they cannot
> or will not make a payment on debt they have
> accrued.
>
> Ellipsis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Secondly, FFX - I would advise you to look at
> the
> > recent example of McDonalds - it was easier to
> get
> > into Harvard than get hired on their last
> 'hiring
> > day'. Furthermore, finding menial positions is
> > nightmarish for anyone with a 4yr degree in
> that
> > one must chose between reporting the degree and
> > being written off as 'overqualified', and having
> a
> > >4 year gap in one's employment history. Both
> of
> > which are frowned upon by HR, and given the
> pool
> > of applicants available, they have the luxury
> of
> > being picky.

Part time school. Full time work Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will be graduating from GMU in 2012. It has
> taken me almost 11 years to complete my bachelors.
> I saved up enough, and with scholarships and pell
> grants made it through Nova for my first two years
> with an associates. I got a fulltime job, and
> transferred to Mason to take classes on the side.
> I saved for 2 years and had enough money to do 1
> year or 3 semisters of mason fulltime. I quit my
> job, but ran out of money before I could finish,
> with 10 courses left I had no alternative but to
> join the military. after AIT, and a deployment
> and a nearly 4 year haitus I've come back to
> finish, working full time. I'll have graduated
> with no student loans in a little over a decade,
> with a continous resume full of experience. If I
> can do it, why can't you?

You sir are a true patriot! Thank you for your service. IF only kids these days would understand how hard work and responsibility will pay off in the end. You dont need to rely on the government for loans to further an educational experience.


www.identityguard.com

To a limited extent, I agree with you. However, I must take the opposite position.

High school is more or less an infomercial for how great college is, for how much fun one will have, how necessary a 4yr rag is to make money, and of course how anyone who doesn't is going to be flipping burgers and begging on street corners. While the information to make prudent choices is available, it is simply never discussed, and when it is, cost-effective options such as community colleges are smeared for not providing a sufficient 'experience'.

Furthermore, Glebe likely faced parental pressure if coming from the middle or sometimes upper classes in order to get into the best school possible. That usually tends to be the most expensive school possible.

In summary, Glebe was sold a false bill of goods. I would advise him to liquidate his assets into cash, and buy gold with them, again using cash if possible. Then, I would advise him to ignore the loans and let the chips fall where they may.

Colonial Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glebe RD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have over $53,000 in student loans from GWU.
> I
> > look for a job maybe a few times a week and I
> > apply to one or two a week. My debt is mounting
> > because I cannot make payments because I do not
> > have a job. To be honest I am not about to work
> a
> > retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have a
> > degree in marketing. I am one of probably
> hundreds
> > of thousands that cannot find a job after
> > graduation. We need our debt forgiven because I
> > can't have this over my head when I plan on
> > beginning my career. It is not fair.
>
> You chose to apply for and accept student loans.
> You chose to go to GWU. You chose to get a degree
> in marketing. You choose to apply to one or two
> jobs a week. Take responsibility for your choices,
> motherfucker!!

As for those who suggest the military to repay loans - I would advise against it because it makes one a party to the evil perpetrated by this regime on a daily basis. Better an empty belly than a heavy conscience.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it.
-Aurelius

Ellipsis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To a limited extent, I agree with you. However, I
> must take the opposite position.
>
> High school is more or less an infomercial for how
> great college is, for how much fun one will have,
> how necessary a 4yr rag is to make money, and of
> course how anyone who doesn't is going to be
> flipping burgers and begging on street corners.
> While the information to make prudent choices is
> available, it is simply never discussed, and when
> it is, cost-effective options such as community
> colleges are smeared for not providing a
> sufficient 'experience'.
>
> Furthermore, Glebe likely faced parental pressure
> if coming from the middle or sometimes upper
> classes in order to get into the best school
> possible. That usually tends to be the most
> expensive school possible.
>
> In summary, Glebe was sold a false bill of goods.
> I would advise him to liquidate his assets into
> cash, and buy gold with them, again using cash if
> possible. Then, I would advise him to ignore the
> loans and let the chips fall where they may.
>

Gold is not stable (ever seen Goldfinger?). One nuke and you're done for.

Invest in technology. Compact Discs and DVDs are about to explode into mainstream society.

Ellipsis: your comments address (what may have been) Glebe RD's past. It is the present that is of importance -- this moment right now. At present Glebe RD doesn't want to work. At present Glebe RD has a sense of superiority and entitlement.

I'm bullish on gold right now; it's had a goodly correction I see it going higher because the Swiss are hand-wringing over the strong franc.

Given Moore's law, such things would not be well-advised. I'll take 5'000 years of monetary history over some discs that will be obsolete in 5.

poopstick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gold is not stable (ever seen Goldfinger?). One
> nuke and you're done for.
>
> Invest in technology. Compact Discs and DVDs are
> about to explode into mainstream society.

I could care less what someone has a 'sense' of, such things are trivial and invite ad-hominems. What concern me are the false bills of goods he and millions of others were sold not only regarding college, but of student loans and the employment market. While I would have taken a different approach, Glebe is not worthy of condemnation.

As to whether he 'wants to work' that is irrelevant if the jobs are not there. Again, one now has a better chance of getting into Harvard than McDonalds. He can want to go to the moon and it will not make a bit of difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RWYzyZtYhg

Colonial Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis: your comments address (what may have
> been) Glebe RD's past. It is the present that is
> of importance -- this moment right now. At present
> Glebe RD doesn't want to work. At present Glebe RD
> has a sense of superiority and entitlement.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 04:53PM by Ellipsis.

Really people??? I work at a wonderful job making much more than a lot of my peers. I am set to graduate this December and it took me about 5 years to do so. I have worked full time the whole time going to school and I still didn't have enough to pay out of pocket. I only decided to get the degree to supplement my personal job experience, and as it turns out, I may not need it since I have over 7 years of experience in my field. But, I am currently paying on my student loans and it takes a lot out of my monthly budget. While I would like 100% forgiveness (being selfish for a minute) what I would like more is for the interest to just go away. My loans have DOUBLED because of interest; the payments I make don't even go to the principal. The interest also gets capitalized so I end up paying interest on top of interest. Something is wrong here. If someone took out a $20,000 they are now going to have to pay back 2-3 times that amount, if they can only afford the minimum payment. Something about this is backwards! I fully understand that it was my choice to take out the loan and I should have read better, but with almost $1 TRILLION in American student loan debt (now more than credit card debt) there is a problem. Education should not be for the super-rich, and currently that is what it is. Either take out a bunch of loans to get educated and be in debt for the rest of your life or do not go at all. An educated society is a successful society, and since the cost of college has gone up OVER 500% in the last decade it is harder and harder to have an educated society. Also the US is one of the FEW countries that make citizens pay for higher education. Many, and I mean MANY, other countries see that it is a benefit to society to pay for the education of their citizens, but all the US is about right now is money, and who can make the most money, and who can cheat the poor out of the most money. This, my fellow Americans is a travesty!

My car is demanding more maintenance than the dealer said it would. I demand taxpayer-funded payback of my loan. I was duped and deserve payment.

Ellipsis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could care less what someone has a 'sense' of,
> such things are trivial and invite ad-hominems.
> What concern me are the false bills of goods he
> and millions of others were sold not only
> regarding college, but of student loans and the
> employment market. While I would have taken a
> different approach, Glebe is not worthy of
> condemnation.
>
> As to whether he 'wants to work' that is
> irrelevant if the jobs are not there. Again, one
> now has a better chance of getting into Harvard
> than McDonalds. He can want to go to the moon and
> it will not make a bit of difference.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RWYzyZtYhg
>
> Colonial Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ellipsis: your comments address (what may have
> > been) Glebe RD's past. It is the present that
> is
> > of importance -- this moment right now. At
> present
> > Glebe RD doesn't want to work. At present Glebe
> RD
> > has a sense of superiority and entitlement.

I want to work. It's just that I paid for this education. I am in debt because of this education. I am looking for a job and the job market adn this economy is failing me and people like me. Why shouldn't my loans be forgiven if circumstances beyond my control and holding me down?

Yep. Deserve, deserve, deserve. Everyone is so very deserving.

I agree with you. Education has found its way into the financial industrial complex; it is too lucrative to exit this orbit.

The crux of the matter is the Dept. of Education and its creating a de-facto oligopoly through its accreditation racket. That agency was trouble when it started, and it needs to be abolished as soon as possible. However, as it is now the linchpin of said complex, it is here to stay barring the dissolution of the current odious regime.

I have written representatives and senators with my proposed reforms, but they have not so much as garnered a reply.

-Set up an online community college whose maximum annual tuition is pegged at one-half of the maximum Pell grant to offer courses in the hard sciences, mathematics, engineering, and languages. This would act as a price ceiling of sorts.

-Allow colleges accredited by competing agencies to disburse student aid. This will serve to decrease the cost of accreditation by introducing competition.

-Peg the interest on unsubsidised student loans at the Fed funds rate. If the banks can borrow at that rate, why not students?

louise0850 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really people??? I work at a wonderful job making
> much more than a lot of my peers. I am set to
> graduate this December and it took me about 5
> years to do so. I have worked full time the whole
> time going to school and I still didn't have
> enough to pay out of pocket. I only decided to
> get the degree to supplement my personal job
> experience, and as it turns out, I may not need it
> since I have over 7 years of experience in my
> field. But, I am currently paying on my student
> loans and it takes a lot out of my monthly budget.
> While I would like 100% forgiveness (being
> selfish for a minute) what I would like more is
> for the interest to just go away. My loans have
> DOUBLED because of interest; the payments I make
> don't even go to the principal. The interest also
> gets capitalized so I end up paying interest on
> top of interest. Something is wrong here. If
> someone took out a $20,000 they are now going to
> have to pay back 2-3 times that amount, if they
> can only afford the minimum payment. Something
> about this is backwards! I fully understand that
> it was my choice to take out the loan and I should
> have read better, but with almost $1 TRILLION in
> American student loan debt (now more than credit
> card debt) there is a problem. Education should
> not be for the super-rich, and currently that is
> what it is. Either take out a bunch of loans to
> get educated and be in debt for the rest of your
> life or do not go at all. An educated society is
> a successful society, and since the cost of
> college has gone up OVER 500% in the last decade
> it is harder and harder to have an educated
> society. Also the US is one of the FEW countries
> that make citizens pay for higher education.
> Many, and I mean MANY, other countries see that it
> is a benefit to society to pay for the education
> of their citizens, but all the US is about right
> now is money, and who can make the most money, and
> who can cheat the poor out of the most money.
> This, my fellow Americans is a travesty!

I will interpret the fact that you 'just say' things as a disclaimer and pay them no heed.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My car is demanding more maintenance than the
> dealer said it would. I demand taxpayer-funded
> payback of my loan. I was duped and deserve
> payment.

Given that only you, strong bones, and justsayin have used that word, that is not a valid characterisation of anything I, louise, or Glebe have said.

strong bones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep. Deserve, deserve, deserve. Everyone is so
> very deserving.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want to work. It's just that I paid for this
> education. I am in debt because of this education.
> I am looking for a job and the job market adn this
> economy is failing me and people like me. Why
> shouldn't my loans be forgiven if circumstances
> beyond my control and holding me down?


You are educated now, are you not?

"and as it turns out, I may not need it since I have over 7 years of experience in my field"

That about sums it up. Employers want experience. They know that many colleges are nothing but diploma mills. To fill quotas and get more students they will graduate anyone with the money to buy the diploma.

If I was an employer I would not hire someone who hasnt held a job in two years barring a medical reason. It shows me the person believes themself too good to take any job. If the receptionist called in sick and I needed you to fill in you would be the type that would tell me to go fuck myself you are too good to do that job.

Great another fucking know it all, I think you missed a couple of threads to enlighten everyone on, Put away the thesauris

According to my old economics professor, a 4yr degree just indicates one can be taught. To call what goes on in colleges in this country 'education' is like calling what goes on in McDonalds 'cuisine'.

Colonial Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glebe RD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I want to work. It's just that I paid for this
> > education. I am in debt because of this
> education.
> > I am looking for a job and the job market adn
> this
> > economy is failing me and people like me. Why
> > shouldn't my loans be forgiven if circumstances
> > beyond my control and holding me down?
>
>
> You are educated now, are you not?

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got a degree so I would not have to work a
> retail job, and I do not plan on working a retail
> job.


Quick show of hands.

Who here is doing exactly what they planned?

Can't say as I am cause I can't really say that I planned shit. I just got a job and started my illustrious career off.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill N Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>>...
> I do not understand what solution you are
> presenting. I also think your statistics are
> incorrect.

The percentages were for illustration. Do you really think I am goint to research the success of marketing major graduates in 2011 in order to respond to a question posted on this forum? Do you do this on interviews? I'll try one last time:

You graduated with a degree, credentials, experience, personality and appearance that failed to get you the kind of job you wanted before graduating, and you have failed in your efforts to get that kind of job in the months since. So what do you do: You can keep going along as you are hoping that you will somehow stumble on that one prize job that you and everyone else overlooked. Remember though that in 6-8 months you will be competing against not just the kids like you who still haven't gotten a job, but against another crop of marketing graduates.

OR

You can accept the fact that your "package" isn't what employers are looking for at this time for jobs like you want. You can then either change the package, change the type of jobs you are looking for, or both. Changing your degree and credentials would probably involve money, and a major change in appearance or personality for most people is not likely either. You can change your experience though by doing other jobs, either paid or unpaid.

So retail isn't your idea of what you want to do with your life. However if that is the opportunity that is avenue that is open, take it and make the most of it. Work doesn't mean doing what you want to do. It means doing what needs to be done.

Bill is inquiring whether it would be more advantageous to take a position 'beneath them' and then use it to move up the ladder.

Bill assumes two things - that positions 'beneath' one, which for these purposes will be defined as those that do not require a 4yr rag are available. I again cite my Harvard v. McDonalds analogy. He also assumes that having taken a position will make one more marketable. That is not necessarily the case because taking a menial position does not supply experience for a more advanced position outside of fast food or retail. Furthermore, it signals that you were unable to find a position right out of school, thus making one less marketable than someone with an internship in the same field, or who just got out of school and blows away the interviewers.

Bill is operating in a bubble with questionable data and has failed to take into consideration the issues of economic signalling.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill N Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is 2011. Maybe 20% of your peers graduated
> and
> > got decent jobs. Maybe another 40% got jobs
> that
> > were beneath them, and the rest are bumming off
> > parents and friends. A year from now there
> will
> > be another crop of kids coming out competing
> for
> > jobs. Who do you think the employers in 2012
> are
> > going to hire? The new kids fresh out of
> school
> > (perhaps); The kids who took jobs beneath them
> and
> > then started moving upwards (perhaps); or the
> kids
> > who spent the past year doing nothing but
> "looking
> > for a job" (unlikely).
>
> I do not understand what solution you are
> presenting. I also think your statistics are
> incorrect.

Ellipsis,


Do you always try to pass yourself off as a pseudo-intellectual?

I am willing to apply my tax dollars toward student loan forgiveness as long as some mix of volunteer teaching in inner cities is there.

Also if any portion of the loan is forgiven (i.e. bailed out by me and all other people who got degrees that got employable-skill degrees instead) then the degree should be forfeited and the student reverted to a non-graduated status at the school they attended. The work experience in volunteering for inner-city teaching can be put in a resume in lieu of a degree.

I see no reason why a recipient of a taxpayer-funded bailout should keep their degree. When the loan balance is eventually paid off, the lender can then inform the school that the debt is paid and degree status can be moved to "graduated." The goof-offs I saw in college disgusted me and I have no sympathy for their jobless status because their degree was in how to be a smelly protester.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 06:01PM by justsayin.

pseudo-intellectual
1.
a person exhibiting intellectual pretensions that have no basis in sound scholarship.
2.
a person who pretends an interest in intellectual matters for reasons of status.

Before I proceed, which definition did you have in mind?

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis,
>
>
> Do you always try to pass yourself off as a
> pseudo-intellectual?

Another solution is in order.

In lending money, one takes a risk. Soak the creditors by making such loans expendable via bankruptcy like any other unsecured debt. A loan for classes is no more sacred than a loan for a big-screen TV.

If the banks lose money, let them wring their hands in silence. They would have played the great game of politics and lost.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am willing to apply my tax dollars toward
> student loan forgiveness as long as some mix of
> volunteer teaching in inner cities is there.
>
> Also if any portion of the loan is forgiven (i.e.
> bailed out by me and all other people who got
> degrees that got employable-skill degrees instead)
> then the degree should be forfeited and the
> student reverted to a non-graduated status at the
> school they attended. The work experience in
> volunteering for inner-city teaching can be put in
> a resume in lieu of a degree.
>
> I see no reason why a recipient of a
> taxpayer-funded bailout should keep their degree.
> When the loan balance is eventually paid off, the
> lender can then inform the school that the debt is
> paid and degree status can be moved to
> "graduated." The goof-offs I saw in college
> disgusted me and I have no sympathy for their
> jobless status because their degree was in how to
> be a smelly protester.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill N Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That said Glebe RD, you need to rethink your
> > priorities. You got a degree in marketing, but
> > working retail is beneath you?!? Retail is
> > nothing more than marketing on a one on one
> basis.
>
> I got a degree so I would not have to work a
> retail job, and I do not plan on working a retail
> job.


I got a job for you, why don't you come over to my house and make me sandwiches all night.

Glad to see hear the sensible masses input on the forum! We think good points have been presented on all fronts, but one thing is for certain... "forgiveness" is not a good avenue to go down and implied one screwed up to begin with. We will not try to crush anyone with our pet Linguisticus-Masterysaurus, and take all opinions into account for the purpose of being more open-minded as a whole. Having said that, we'd like to hear more from those that have not spoken up much - (future cats? ffx antelope?) ..everyone has a unique story to tell, and as wrong as other people look at it (us included) - it makes you, you. So if you bit off more of the financial pickle than you could chew and haven't choked and died, we'd like to hear from you!

If by forgiveness you mean getting raped by a giant scorpion ... I'm all ears.

O'Doyle Rules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If by forgiveness you mean getting raped by a
> giant scorpion ... I'm all ears.



You my friend, need anger management.

O'Doyle Rules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> O'Doyle Rules Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If by forgiveness you mean getting raped by a
> > giant scorpion ... I'm all ears.
>
>
>
> You my friend, need anger management.


Agreed?

OK so my understanding is that you are going to hold out and wait for a job that you feel is worthy of your time spent in school. How long are you willing to wait? What if you still do not have a job in 2 more years? Are you still going to wait for the dream job? What about 4 years are you still waiting? In this time how do you plan to buy food? Pay rent? Car Insurance? Do you need a hand in paying these bills as well? Life will continue to move you have to decide are you going to move with it. The economy is not making any long term recovery anytime soon. The political cloud will continue to prevent any meaningful recovery until we can locate a smart solution on what is the best course for the country. As for now its two sides unwilling to negotiate and find common group and make necessary concessions.

Ellipsis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another solution is in order.
>
> A loan
> for classes is no more sacred than a loan for a
> big-screen TV.

I agree. As in the case of a loan for a big-screen TV or a car, defaulting on the loan results in takeback of the item. Hence my suggestion that the loan be suspended but the degree be "repossessed" until the loan is paid.

Given that the banks are close to power, any meaningful reform will not be forthcoming. I would bet that whatever concessions are made to the student debtors will be trinket and superficial, a paper tiger designed to be paraded about by politicos and media, while those made to creditors will be substantial but obfuscated.

TheSaneOneintheRoom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK so my understanding is that you are going to
> hold out and wait for a job that you feel is
> worthy of your time spent in school. How long are
> you willing to wait? What if you still do not have
> a job in 2 more years? Are you still going to wait
> for the dream job? What about 4 years are you
> still waiting? In this time how do you plan to buy
> food? Pay rent? Car Insurance? Do you need a hand
> in paying these bills as well? Life will continue
> to move you have to decide are you going to move
> with it. The economy is not making any long term
> recovery anytime soon. The political cloud will
> continue to prevent any meaningful recovery until
> we can locate a smart solution on what is the best
> course for the country. As for now its two sides
> unwilling to negotiate and find common group and
> make necessary concessions.

I went to GMU and got my 4 year degree graduated in 2010 and managed to do it all while working full-time when I could, and I paid completely out of pocket. I think that anyone who takes out a loan to pay for school and doesn't own up to what they have done should never have attended in the first place. Everyone should be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make something of themselves. Looking for absolution from your financial situation that you signed up for is foolhardy. Where will the money come from when debt is forgiven? Where will the burden be shifted? All that will happen is the burden of students and graduates will be dispersed among the masses and we all will share in it. That is the problem. Why should my wages and the earnings of others like myself be used to pay off the bad debt acquired my generation of students and fools?

I also have not found a job using my field of study, but I have been working full-time to support myself and ensure that I have a form of healthcare coverage.

Take the blank check away.

"When bright young minds can’t afford college, America pays the price."

Gryffindor Wins! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "When bright young minds can’t afford college,
> America pays the price."


"Cauliflower is nothing but cabbage with a college education."

With a rare exception, that is not the case.

Credit cards are unsecured debt, meaning that they do not have collateral. In the case of a loan for a TV, the lender does not have recourse to take the television.

Furthermore, if it comes to pass that the loan cannot be paid, the borrower may file bankruptcy, and the television becomes part of one's homestead, which is exempted up to $5K in Virginia. This means unless the value of the used television is less than $5K, he has the option to keep it. As said before, student loans are exempt from bankruptcy except in very few cases.

In summary, your knowledge of debt, collateral, and repossession is wanting, though this does not violate your warranty that you are 'just sayin (sic)' things. I can 'just say' that 1+1=3, and that cows shit ice cream; whether these things are true or valid is another thing entirely.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another solution is in order.
> >
> > A loan
> > for classes is no more sacred than a loan for a
> > big-screen TV.
>
> I agree. As in the case of a loan for a
> big-screen TV or a car, defaulting on the loan
> results in takeback of the item. Hence my
> suggestion that the loan be suspended but the
> degree be "repossessed" until the loan is paid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 07:08PM by Ellipsis.

Card can't be repossessed well fuck me I'm gonna stop payin my car loan now... thanks !!!

I would advise checking if the auto is collateral to the auto loan; it usually is.

user of the English Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Card can't be repossessed well fuck me I'm gonna
> stop payin my car loan now... thanks !!!

I went to a college I couldnt afford, the government better fix my mistake. After college I got a car I couldnt afford but I certainly deserved, I expect the government to forgive my stupidity and pay off the loan. Lastly I moved into a home when I couldnt even pay the principal on the mortgage. I expect to continue living there while other people pay for it or the bank writes me off as a bad loan.

But the poster is asking for "forgiveness", not for the option to declare bankruptcy. The two are different. Would the OP be willing to declare bankruptcy if that were an option?

This thread makes me wish there was a draft. Fucking whiny ass little shits. Pay your fucking bills.

Many who borrowed did not do so with the intent of defaulting, rather, they were sold a false bill of goods and acquired a certification to render one employable for positions that were either destroyed or simply never created, BLS projections notwithstanding.

Might I inquire as to your motive for:
-characterising the distension of myself and others as 'whining'
-calling us 'shits', both of which are ad-hominem attacks?

Finally, as to your opinion of the draft, it is constitutional (esp. 5th and 14th amendments), and why you wish 'there was a draft'?

496 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread makes me wish there was a draft.
> Fucking whiny ass little shits. Pay your fucking
> bills.

Universities sell education, not jobs. There is no deceit here.

Glebe RD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have over $53,000 in student loans from GWU. I
> look for a job maybe a few times a week and I
> apply to one or two a week. My debt is mounting
> because I cannot make payments because I do not
> have a job. To be honest I am not about to work a
> retail job to pay for my bills beacuse I have a
> degree in marketing. I am one of probably hundreds
> of thousands that cannot find a job after
> graduation. We need our debt forgiven because I
> can't have this over my head when I plan on
> beginning my career. It is not fair.

You really piss me off Glebe Rd. I took marketing also in college, and dreamed of sitting in an office drawing pie charts. It just wasn't a realistic dream!

My first job after graduating had nothing to do with marketing. Then I took a sales job (that is what a marketing degree will get you) which sucked but I did it because I still needed to pay rent and buy food. After years of that shit I started a business.

Years later a major recession hit and it was hard to stay afloat, but I did. Because I didn't sit around whining about how it wasn't my fault. Get out there and get the shittiest job you can find - it will do you good! The saddest part is that I have more faith in you than you do. Grow a pair of balls, quit whining, and make it happen for fucks sake.

One borrows to get the education, to get the job, to pay back the loan. There is no deceit there either.

What is deceitful is the propaganda in American education that instils the idea that a 4yr degree is necessary to ever do anything while 36% of freshman graduate, and of those, 85% are moving back in with their parents presumably because they can't make ends meet.

My argument is three-fold:
-High schools (& sometimes middle schools) are buffaloing students into making an imprudent decision to enter college and borrow,
-Government meddling has driven the cost of education above their natural equilibrium, making such debt necessary &
-Student loan debt is not sacred and should be treated as any other unsecured debt.

Colonial Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Universities sell education, not jobs. There is no
> deceit here.

^Agreed. We should revamp the entire college-entrance system from the bottom-up, not vice-versa... which is unfortunately the case/petition being proposed here. The petition seeks to help a select few and does nothing to properly address the problems that will be encountered by future generations. Glebe RD doesn't see where he/she went wrong, and lacks some perspective but is representative of some 40,000 people that signed that petition, and many more that would like to. High school needs to properly address financial management, I think that is one area that is seriously lacking. Hopefully we continue to find parents that don't let their kids get into these sticky situations, but once alea iacta est, well...

Orbea Playa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^Agreed. We should revamp the entire
> college-entrance system from the bottom-up, not
> vice-versa... which is unfortunately the
> case/petition being proposed here. The petition
> seeks to help a select few and does nothing to
> properly address the problems that will be
> encountered by future generations. Glebe RD
> doesn't see where he/she went wrong, and lacks
> some perspective but is representative of some
> 40,000 people that signed that petition, and many
> more that would like to. High school needs to
> properly address financial management, I think
> that is one area that is seriously lacking.
> Hopefully we continue to find parents that don't
> let their kids get into these sticky situations,
> but once alea iacta est,





The only thing high school taught me was to be afraid of AIDS and not get anyone pregnant.

Technicolor Coat of ManyDreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Following the news as of late, who else has been
> keeping up with the happenings of this "Student
> Loan Forgiveness" petition? Speaking as two recent
> graduates here, we think it is a load of BS.
> Thoughts?

The concept of Student Loan "FORGIVENESS" would infer that the students made mistakes taking a loan.

What are we constructing here?

What is this society?

What makes an independent adult, run to the nearest authority figure and beg for a handout?

Are they going to write another blank check to fill a void that is not being filled by the debtors? I think this is a possibility. Why? Voters. To get the vote of the youth you need to appeal to them. Creating programs that assist them in finding work, stripping them of their financial responsibilities or permitting them to latch onto their parent's insurance policies because they are unable to obtain health insurance. (Which is stupid, they need to find a way to fend for themselves). We will be paying for the needs of the few.

Are you willing to do that? I am not.

Am I going to do it? Yes because I live in this country.

No one is willing to make a difference because you can line your pockets with grubby dollars that were granted unto you because you begged. You can have your car you purchased with your student loan instead of spending it on school or sending the surplus back to the institution. You are greedy.

Our votes mean nothing.

Damn electoral college.

I am glad to see that there are people who are against the concept of student loan forgiveness. There are too many mouth pieces out there that are in support of it, most likely to gain a younger generation of viewers and followers. By playing into the desires of the uninformed and foolish few we are beginning to foster a culture where we put the burden of our mistakes on the hard working public and the future generations.

I am seeing many collectivist arguments saying that 'we' lent students money.

These are not loans from the government, they are merely loans made from private money, through the government, and in most cases are exempted from bankruptcy. Therefore, 'we' are not a party to this matter and have no cause to condemn anyone for defaulting on a special kind of private loan.

L.O.A. - if I can outmanoeuvre the tax man, so can you.

Secteur - 'We' are doing nothing of the sort, the Congresscritters who brought their seats like season tickets are. Among others, they work for the banks, the ones that got bailed despite public opposition. I can assure you that such a culture was already in place, though allegedly-profligate students were never beneficiaries.

Why do so many use 'we'? Do they not know it is a dangerous word?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig12/berwick5.1.1.html

"So, the next time someone talks about some large group of collective people as "we" or take credit for events they never had anything to do with, be like Doug Stanhope and tell them, maybe "we" should just shut the f*#k up."

public colleges should be provided... just like public high schools are... there's no reason not to provide higher education for our citizens... the people who want to pay for private colleges with dorms, frats, and 21 hours of free time a day to fuck off still can... don't forget 3day weekends every week and summer vacation at he parents house

Why are you blaming High School? Yes they stress that a 4 year degree is fundamental in a solid career. The reason they are wrong is that they are behind the times. A masters has now become the baseline for qualification to a decent job. Yes work experience can often substitute for some education, but at the same time lack of education often creates a glass ceiling on your career. So who should be blamed? Parents...it is the parents responsibility to instill morals and responsibility in their children. If someone should be responsible for bailing out these grads its their parents.
Furthermore, high school also emphasizes scholarships. Please stop blaming high schools they are there to educate not raise our children.

I deny your request to 'stop blaming the high schools'. You yourself admit that they 'stress that a 4 year degree is fundamental to a solid career', and in doing so they present a false bill of goods to a captive and naive audience. Whether they 'stress scholarships' is irrelevant in that the same amount of scholarship money is disbursed whether 10 apply or 10'000.

Furthermore, they are not 'our' children as I have not yet reproduced. Did you think you could avert the hazards of using 'we' by doing so in its possessive form?


TheSaneOneInTheRoom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are you blaming High School? Yes they stress
> that a 4 year degree is fundamental in a solid
> career. The reason they are wrong is that they are
> behind the times. A masters has now become the
> baseline for qualification to a decent job. Yes
> work experience can often substitute for some
> education, but at the same time lack of education
> often creates a glass ceiling on your career. So
> who should be blamed? Parents...it is the parents
> responsibility to instill morals and
> responsibility in their children. If someone
> should be responsible for bailing out these grads
> its their parents.
> Furthermore, high school also emphasizes
> scholarships. Please stop blaming high schools
> they are there to educate not raise our children.

Please refer to my earlier post; barring the dissolution of education central planning, an online college that charged only half of the maximum pell grant would be able to provide educational services without the extraneous fluff that pervades in physical colleges. Given the tools available, there is no reason why this cannot be implemented for a modest sum.

little jon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> public colleges should be provided... just like
> public high schools are... there's no reason not
> to provide higher education for our citizens...
> the people who want to pay for private colleges
> with dorms, frats, and 21 hours of free time a day
> to fuck off still can... don't forget 3day
> weekends every week and summer vacation at he
> parents house

Yes I used "our" in the reference form. I have not had children either but I do plan on it one day. It would be my responsibility to teach my children to be financially responsible. I would not expect a high school teacher to do this for me. As for you saying that high schools are selling a false bill of goods is that is not correct. A college education provides a way for people to get an alternative to experience. In today's market you can not get a job without either experience or education so how do you expect to get a job? Strike that there is one other way of getting a job and that is "knowing a guy" but that is irrelevant to the discussion. You are blaming an institution for a problem that should be resolved at home.

Lets look at it this way. Do you smoke? Well cigarette companies put significantly more money and effort into selling cigarettes than high schools for college. Why would you choose to not smoke? Same theory should be applied to all of your decision making. If you choose to listen to the ad campaigns for cigarettes and start to smoke the government can't bail you out of lung cancer. High school also pushes abstinence, not something I believe should be done in schools, and how does that work out. High school also pushes not doing drugs, again how has that worked out. People are responsible for the decisions they make. This should be instilled in young kids, if you make a mess you clean it, if you hurt someone you apologize, if you make a promise you keep it. See where the real problem is?

As said before, the high schools are selling a false bill of goods in that they are equating college with career.

As for the issues of smoking, of abstinence, and of abstaining from drug use - I question the comparison. In two cases, a forbidden fruit is formed; combined with the rebellious and curious nature of the teenager, that is what will happen. As for the middle case, it is flouted by virtue of biological determinism.

College, on the other hand, is sold as a bonum on many fronts (school, parents, media), and is often seen as a means by which to have more coitus and use more drugs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2011 10:16AM by Ellipsis.

Ellipsis,

I noticed you said earlier that you dropped out of college. Do you write the way you do as compensation for your personal failure?

As far as the pseudo-intellectual comment I made earlier, either definition would fit you.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis,
>
> I noticed you said earlier that you dropped out of
> college. Do you write the way you do as
> compensation for your personal failure?
>
> As far as the pseudo-intellectual comment I made
> earlier, either definition would fit you.


eesh, I think you just stated what everyone on this thread was thinking.

Ellipsis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please refer to my earlier post; barring the
> dissolution of education central planning, an
> online college that charged only half of the
> maximum pell grant would be able to provide
> educational services without the extraneous fluff
> that pervades in physical colleges. Given the
> tools available, there is no reason why this
> cannot be implemented for a modest sum.
>

The problem is, the elites would lose control. It is much harder to control the thought process when the students don't have to be immersed in the environment. Another part of the problem is that many of the online colleges tend to be more of a profit motive then a convenience motive, and many times charge higher rates per credit than brick and mortar colleges would.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

You are right about the elites losing control (and money), thus why I am not holding my breath for any reforms. As for the online colleges, given that they have to recoup the cost of accreditation which is about $10MM, it is no wonder they are so bloody expensive.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please refer to my earlier post; barring the
> > dissolution of education central planning, an
> > online college that charged only half of the
> > maximum pell grant would be able to provide
> > educational services without the extraneous
> fluff
> > that pervades in physical colleges. Given the
> > tools available, there is no reason why this
> > cannot be implemented for a modest sum.
> >
>
> The problem is, the elites would lose control. It
> is much harder to control the thought process when
> the students don't have to be immersed in the
> environment. Another part of the problem is that
> many of the online colleges tend to be more of a
> profit motive then a convenience motive, and many
> times charge higher rates per credit than brick
> and mortar colleges would.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please refer to my earlier post; barring the
> > dissolution of education central planning, an
> > online college that charged only half of the
> > maximum pell grant would be able to provide
> > educational services without the extraneous
> fluff
> > that pervades in physical colleges. Given the
> > tools available, there is no reason why this
> > cannot be implemented for a modest sum.
> >
>
> The problem is, the elites would lose control. It
> is much harder to control the thought process when
> the students don't have to be immersed in the
> environment. Another part of the problem is that
> many of the online colleges tend to be more of a
> profit motive then a convenience motive, and many
> times charge higher rates per credit than brick
> and mortar colleges would.


You also don't really have to apply to get into an online school.

Ellipsis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> recoup the cost of accreditation
> which is about $10MM, it is no wonder they are so
> bloody expensive.

ten million million, as in 10,000,000,000,000? fuck yeah that can get expensive

makes sense Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > recoup the cost of accreditation
> > which is about $10MM, it is no wonder they are
> so
> > bloody expensive.
>
> ten million million, as in 10,000,000,000,000?
> fuck yeah that can get expensive


That's like more than Glebe RDs $53k

I would tend to think that Glebe Rd is a troll, but then again, among the people you know, how many in that recent-graduation median act so entitled? I can't count on one hand. Going from suddenly having everything given to you, to being cut-off can leave youngins with nothing to do but complain/whine - which in the past always resulted in instant gratification. All one has to do is watch an episode of dog whisperer. You can never blame the dog, but can you fix the owners ...

I do not see any more reason to apply to pay for a class than to apply to buy an apple.

GSXR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ellipsis Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Please refer to my earlier post; barring the
> > > dissolution of education central planning, an
> > > online college that charged only half of the
> > > maximum pell grant would be able to provide
> > > educational services without the extraneous
> > fluff
> > > that pervades in physical colleges. Given
> the
> > > tools available, there is no reason why this
> > > cannot be implemented for a modest sum.
> > >
> >
> > The problem is, the elites would lose control.
> It
> > is much harder to control the thought process
> when
> > the students don't have to be immersed in the
> > environment. Another part of the problem is
> that
> > many of the online colleges tend to be more of
> a
> > profit motive then a convenience motive, and
> many
> > times charge higher rates per credit than brick
> > and mortar colleges would.
>
>
> You also don't really have to apply to get into an
> online school.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2012 07:33PM by Alias.