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Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: Corrupt Mayors ()
Date: August 13, 2011 03:02PM

Detroit has a great economy thanks to Obama.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: Ms Pac Man ()
Date: August 13, 2011 03:33PM

The miracle is there have not been rioting like in London.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: Wow ()
Date: August 13, 2011 03:38PM

Who knew that in 3 years you could destroy a city! You Republicans all got your hard ons. You better try hard to keep those hard ons until Nov 2012.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: law dawg ()
Date: August 13, 2011 07:06PM

This thread looks familiar.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: SoylentGreen ()
Date: August 13, 2011 08:06PM

Wow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who knew that in 3 years you could destroy a city!
> You Republicans all got your hard ons. You
> better try hard to keep those hard ons until Nov
> 2012.

The truth is Obama didn't have to destroy Detroit.

It's had a Democrat as mayor since 1961.

It was destroyed long before he was elected.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: NOVAman ()
Date: August 14, 2011 12:08AM

Detroit has been falling ever since General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, and suppliers have been shutting the plants down one by one over the past 40 years. Now, theres only a handful left and the city is trash......go figure. Once again short term profit by selling out good quality for shit cars prevails......

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: AMC Rambler ()
Date: August 14, 2011 08:30AM

Unions destroyed the auto industry >the auto industry destroyed Detroit >Obama supports unions>obama destroyed Detroit.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Date: August 14, 2011 08:52AM

Both European and Japanese automakers have unions and they seem to be doing fine, so I'm not sure how you can blame everything on U.S. unions.

The problem with U.S. automakers is that they were producing shit in the 70s right when foreign competition was on the rise. If you listen to guys like Lee Iacocca, they admit that U.S. automakers made shit back then, much of it due to complacency and antiquated development processes.

Another problem U.S. automakers had was they never fully integrated brands as they acquired them. For instance, when GM was being formed, the company never eliminated competing dealerships for Buick, Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, etc, in the same markets. So what ended up happening is over time the dealerships were cannibalizing each others' customer bases. To keep costs down, GM started slapping Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, etc, brands on what were essentially the same model of vehicle. The Japanese and European automakers didn't do that and, hence, have more streamlined product lines today.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: SoylentGreen ()
Date: August 14, 2011 10:07AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The
> Japanese and European automakers didn't do that
> and, hence, have more streamlined product lines
> today.


Oh really?

Lexus/Toyota

Nissan/Infiniti

Honda/Acura

Different shell game...same shells.

You are half right though...GM was too busy competing with itself to notice it was making Chevys and selling them at Buick prices. I refering to that particular point in time for all US car manufacturers as "the days of plastic."

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Date: August 14, 2011 10:20AM

A Lexus isn't a Camry with a different name plate on it. Lexus was introduced to compete with BMW and Cadillac. A Pontiac and a Chevy were often the same fucking vehicle. Same held true for Chrysler and Plymouth and to a lesser extent Dodge (which has become more truck oriented).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: SoylentGreen ()
Date: August 14, 2011 11:22AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Lexus isn't a Camry with a different name plate
> on it. Lexus was introduced to compete with BMW
> and Cadillac. A Pontiac and a Chevy were often the
> same fucking vehicle. Same held true for Chrysler
> and Plymouth and to a lesser extent Dodge (which
> has become more truck oriented).


They are built on the exact same assembly line. Tons of part numbers cross back and forth and in a lot of cases, options were tested on Toyotas before being added to the Lexus.

This info compliments of my brother-in-law that's worked for Lexus since they opened for business in 1989.

Btw...he drives a Mercedes.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: NOVAman ()
Date: August 14, 2011 12:00PM

Obama didn't bailout Detroit though, Bush and the Democratic congress did through the TARP bailouts, 3 months before Obama took office. It's a shame, with the exception of Ford who has gotten their act together, that selling out good quality engineering for shit cars to make more money short term has brought two American icons to their knees.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: carguy ()
Date: August 15, 2011 09:20AM

The biggest problem US automakers have is that there cost are to high because of all the benefits that their retired employees get. When have of you work force is retired it cost twice as much to produce anything. The import automakers don't have to deal with this problem. The best thing that could have happened to them in a business sense would have been bankruptcy. It would have been bad for the retired employees but better for the economy and job production.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: KK ()
Date: August 15, 2011 12:40PM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Both European and Japanese automakers have unions
> and they seem to be doing fine, so I'm not sure
> how you can blame everything on U.S. unions.
>
> The problem with U.S. automakers is that they were
> producing shit in the 70s right when foreign
> competition was on the rise. If you listen to guys
> like Lee Iacocca, they admit that U.S. automakers
> made shit back then, much of it due to complacency
> and antiquated development processes.
>
> Another problem U.S. automakers had was they never
> fully integrated brands as they acquired them. For
> instance, when GM was being formed, the company
> never eliminated competing dealerships for Buick,
> Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, etc, in the same markets. So
> what ended up happening is over time the
> dealerships were cannibalizing each others'
> customer bases. To keep costs down, GM started
> slapping Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, etc, brands on what
> were essentially the same model of vehicle. The
> Japanese and European automakers didn't do that
> and, hence, have more streamlined product lines
> today.


You know, you have made a great point. I wonder how the employees of VW, Audi, Mercedes compare to the employees of Ford, GM, Chrysler.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: snowdenscold ()
Date: August 15, 2011 12:53PM

I remember thinking it was strange that the Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager were the exact same minivan.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: August 15, 2011 01:19PM

I've talked to people from Michigan who worked for the Big Three and they really have it cushy. Many retire in their early to mid-50's and rake in benefits that keep taking longer to pay put because people are living longer.


Detroit itself is one the most corrupt and pathetic shitholes in America, though the burbs up there are livable and the rest of the state is pretty awesome in the warmer months.

For the record though, the GM and Chrysler bailouts cost taxpayers oodles of cash and did little to reform the inherent problems of labors bleeding effect on industry.

And the Chevy Volt is a failure, no one is buying these fucking things.


idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM


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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: JBass ()
Date: August 15, 2011 01:24PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've talked to people from Michigan who worked for
> the Big Three and they really have it cushy. Many
> retire in their early to mid-50's and rake in
> benefits that keep taking longer to pay put
> because people are living longer.
>
>
> Detroit itself is one the most corrupt and
> pathetic shitholes in America, though the burbs up
> there are livable and the rest of the state is
> pretty awesome in the warmer months.
>
> For the record though, the GM and Chrysler
> bailouts cost taxpayers oodles of cash and did
> little to reform the inherent problems of labors
> bleeding effect on industry.
>
> And the Chevy Volt is a failure, no one is buying
> these fucking things.

FYI, GM cut virtually all healthcare from their retirement benefits, including those that were already retired.

EDIT:

I sold oodles of health insurance to these guys, every single one of the FURIOUS. Imagine at 60, being told that you and your wife will no longer get healthcare and that if you DO qualify for benefits on an underwritten policy, it will cover NO pre-existing conditions AND cost you as much as your mortgage payment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2011 01:27PM by JBass.

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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: August 15, 2011 02:20PM

ALL healthcare was elinimated? First I've heard of that.

The impression I got was the bondholders were screwed, and little real reforms to the pensions took place.


idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM


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Re: Obama is Responsible for the Detroit Miracle
Posted by: JBass ()
Date: August 15, 2011 02:55PM

General Motors plans to eliminate retiree healthcare coverage for approximately 100,000 white-collar retirees at the end of this year. Former factory workers, however, have union contracts that prevent the company from revoking coverage.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2008/11/10/general-motors-cuts-healthcare-for-retirees

This is just GM, all of the big auto has done some variation of this.

They increase pension $3600 per year to compensate for what is likely for most older folks a $10,000 to $12,000 liability.... Again that's IF they qualify. If any of these workers have ever had Cancer, stroke, heart attack, C-Section, Mental Health Counseling Diabetes (just to name a few) they are completely disqualified for anything but HIPPA complaint "Credible Coverage" policies that double that $10,000 to $20,000 or more per year.

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