we've had a huge loss On Wall Street this week. GDP is treading water and early. ADP payroll figures dpnt look promising. What can Obama do now to prevent a double dip recession?

Does this frighten you? Sure doesn't scare me!
Attachments:

Poor you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we've had a huge loss On Wall Street this week.
> GDP is treading water and early. ADP payroll
> figures dpnt look promising. What can Obama do
> now to prevent a double dip recession?

The signing of the debt limit pact means the government will be coming to the market to catch on borrowing for the last three months. The market is trying to absorb all the extra debt issuance. They have to borrow 331 billion over the next 8 weeks in addition to the 200+ billion they borrowed from various government accounts to keep from going over the limit. Remember how the stock market fell after TARP was passed.

4 more years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does this frighten you? Sure doesn't scare me!

Wow. Seriously wow. Clueless doesn't even begin to describe you. Talk to me in October and see if you are scared. Better yet, talk to me NEXT October and you will be petrified. I don't place all the blame on Obama, not by a long shot, but he is starting to accumulate his fair share month by month. Even worse, he doesn't seem to understand the situation and/or how to handle it. If he doesn't turn it around by next next October, his culpability in the ongoing economic failure will be equal to or greater than any other culprit. Should that be the case, he will not be getting my vote this time around.

The debt deal really accomplished nothing besides damaging America's image in the financial markets. I agree that there needs to be a commonsense approach to dealing with the deficit, but playing chicken with the full faith and credit of the U.S. wasn't the way to do it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

TD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4 more years Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Does this frighten you? Sure doesn't scare me!
>
> Wow. Seriously wow. Clueless doesn't even begin
> to describe you.

Ad hominems are fun, ain't they?

=========

Note that the OP talks about Dow decline and also note that, over the last couple years, the Dow has declined significantly more than it has recently many times. In fact, if you look at a log scale chart (*) you'll see that it has declined REALLY significantly more than recently.

Hand-wringing is fun and IS the stuff of political hatred but it isn't really otherwise very interesting.

October? Why October? Lol!

=========

(*) Log scale charts are used to show "equal-impact" market moves - moving 10 when the overall number is 100 has more impact than moving 10 when the overall number is 1000. Note that the prior Dow movements were considerably larger "impact" since the moves were at least as large numerically but were significantly larger when considered in log scale.

As long as Obama sits on the bench and refuses to engage, asshole teabaggers will own him.

4 more years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 4 more years Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Does this frighten you? Sure doesn't scare
> me!
> >
> > Wow. Seriously wow. Clueless doesn't even
> begin
> > to describe you.
>
> Ad hominems are fun, ain't they?

Do you really need me to go back and point out your ad hominems? Besides, it really isn't an attack on you as it is an expression of sympathy over your condition.


> =========
>
> Note that the OP talks about Dow decline and also
> note that, over the last couple years, the Dow has
> declined significantly more than it has recently
> many times. In fact, if you look at a log scale
> chart (*) you'll see that it has declined REALLY
> significantly more than recently.
>
> Hand-wringing is fun and IS the stuff of political
> hatred but it isn't really otherwise very
> interesting.
>
> October? Why October? Lol!
>
> =========
>
> (*) Log scale charts are used to show
> "equal-impact" market moves - moving 10 when the
> overall number is 100 has more impact than moving
> 10 when the overall number is 1000. Note that the
> prior Dow movements were considerably larger
> "impact" since the moves were at least as large
> numerically but were significantly larger when
> considered in log scale.

I do really feel bad for you. You just aren't getting it. Look at WTL's response above. At least it is pragmatic enough to appreciate the gravity of the situation.

This is the only Double Dip I'm focusing on these days...



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Apparently China isn't happy with U.S. borrowing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGlbRrF_Bas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The debt deal really accomplished nothing besides
> damaging America's image in the financial markets.
> I agree that there needs to be a commonsense
> approach to dealing with the deficit, but playing
> chicken with the full faith and credit of the U.S.
> wasn't the way to do it.

This whole debt ceiling deal is rather inconsequential looking at the big picture.

Think about it, especially in hindsight now.

Do investors really sit on the edge of their seats waiting for S&P and Moody's to release their bond ratings? Then just accept that as reality and move on as if everything is a okay? Of course not. Everyone that is worth their salt content in brain cells knows what the reality on the ground is.

I mean look at the defense put forth for raising the cap, it's hilariously insane!

"We have raised the limit 74 times before what's the big deal?"

Oh Okay! I guess that's how we'll roll! Fuck! Why don't we just get rid of it then?

Of course the problem is China doesn't think like that. And neither do any investors with their heads put on straight.

We will now continue to pay our bills by printing money. "crisis averted" we're told. "Brought the economy back from the brink of destruction." Harry Reid said.

QE3 could be just around the corner now with the market collapsing. What will that be ? Another trillion? We should hear from Bernanke soon I bet.

And everyone is all of the sudden worried about "the full faith and credit of the U.S.??? Playing chicken with it?? Come on WTL! 15 TRILLION in debt??? And it's the Tea Party's fault for making reality an issue?? Terrorists??? Come on man!

The Tea Party was the only player in this whole messed up, fucked over charade of events that exhibited any sanity in thought and approach whatsoever. And for that they are labeled terrorists.

Facts are the US lost it's "faith and credit" status about 6 trillion dollars and one giant healthcare reform bill ago.

Deficit/stimulus spending, QE1, QE2, now possibly QE3, highest corporate tax rate in the world, Government spending expected to exceed 24% of GDP to sustain entitlement programs and stratospheric spending.

Couple all this with the fact that Obama's entire economic team who designed the Keynesian recovery program have fled and now the cure is suppose to be tax corporate jet owners?????

Faith and credit of the US???? What faith and credit??

Avoid double dipping into a recession? We already have! If there is one thing I regret most of all is the vote I wasted on putting this idiot into office and being manipulated by his hope, change, job market will improve for college graduate bullshit. In regards to foreign policy I think he has done a remarkable job. However with the economy he gets a huge F- in my opinion! So explain to me how when Bush left office we were in a recession with 5% unemployment and with Obama we're at 9.7% unemployment and we're calling it recovery? All this jerk has done is give the Republicans hand jobs and kiss their asses even though they fuck him over in the end. Seriously I would not mind seeing him as a one term president I think he has made things worse.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The debt deal really accomplished nothing besides
> damaging America's image in the financial markets.
> I agree that there needs to be a commonsense
> approach to dealing with the deficit, but playing
> chicken with the full faith and credit of the U.S.
> wasn't the way to do it.

Amen! What did the Republicans accomplish besides embarrassing themselves and this country?

Amen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The debt deal really accomplished nothing
> besides
> > damaging America's image in the financial
> markets.
> > I agree that there needs to be a commonsense
> > approach to dealing with the deficit, but
> playing
> > chicken with the full faith and credit of the
> U.S.
> > wasn't the way to do it.
>
> Amen! What did the Republicans accomplish besides
> embarrassing themselves and this country?


Uhh, cutting deficits and making Obama swallow all his pride.

Barry wakes up one morning says you know what i'm tired of all this shit here Joe you take over

thismuch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The debt deal really accomplished nothing
> > besides
> > > damaging America's image in the financial
> > markets.
> > > I agree that there needs to be a commonsense
> > > approach to dealing with the deficit, but
> > playing
> > > chicken with the full faith and credit of the
> > U.S.
> > > wasn't the way to do it.
> >
> > Amen! What did the Republicans accomplish
> besides
> > embarrassing themselves and this country?
>
>
> Uhh, cutting deficits and making Obama swallow all
> his pride.


The Republicans are no more interested in cutting deficits then they are in ending wars. They are all about protecting their rich benefactors. They could have had a deal that shrnk more of the budget, but they had to swallow some tax increases.

Anas far as making Obama swallow his pride...it is at least nice to see one person who admits Republicans put politics ahead of country.

Sure, Obama is all about country.

While repub policies do favor defense and corporations, Obama does the same kind of shameless pandering to unions and lazy government workers.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

Obama can get through anything as long as the media stays on his side. Who else could have gotten a free pass on having friends like William Ayers and Rev Wright?
Twenty years in the same church and never heard a word of hate speech. Yeah sure

walter crankcase Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Twenty years in the same church and never heard a
> word of hate speech. Yeah sure


Or being like Michelle Bachmann, being married to a gay man without realizing it. I guess she can always blame the migraines.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2011 07:39PM by WashingTone-Locian.

ashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> walter crankcase Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Twenty years in the same church and never heard
> a
> > word of hate speech. Yeah sure
>
>
> Or being like Michelle Bachmann, being married to
> a gay man without realizing it. I guess she can
> always blame the migraines.
>
>

The only way you could be certain he is gay is if you fucked him in the ass or vice versa. Which was it?
l

I'm not sure we're not entering another recession.

Should have some jobs numbers for July soon, I doubt they'll be worth a shit.

Obama really doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about, never has. It's always easier in a classroom than on the bricks.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

It is a true depression, no one wants to use the word. The only difference between now and the first depression is the government is paying for everything you need even if you dont have a job.

In the 1920s people either starved or counted on the charity of others. There was no safety net then. Of course the government cannot keep paying everyones bills if 20% are not working and 50% of those that do work pay no income taxes.

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure, Obama is all about country.
>
> While repub policies do favor defense and
> corporations, Obama does the same kind of
> shameless pandering to unions and lazy government
> workers.

He's pandering to me? How do you figure?

Kelly B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a true depression, no one wants to use the
> word. The only difference between now and the
> first depression is the government is paying for
> everything you need even if you dont have a job.
>
> In the 1920s people either starved or counted on
> the charity of others. There was no safety net
> then. Of course the government cannot keep paying
> everyones bills if 20% are not working and 50% of
> those that do work pay no income taxes.

Jesus! How concise! You are a genius! Why didn't I come up with your post? Especially the "Of course the government cannot keep paying
> everyones bills if 20% are not working and 50% of
> those that do work pay no income taxes." part.

I finally have a peer on this forum. Thank you.

Guvment Worker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sure, Obama is all about country.
> >
> > While repub policies do favor defense and
> > corporations, Obama does the same kind of
> > shameless pandering to unions and lazy
> government
> > workers.

When Obama refuses to trim the waste in federal government, or condemns the cost cutting reforms undertaken at the state level in places like WI or NJ, he is pandering to the Machine.

We need some of you, but taxpayers could really do without all the excess.
>
> He's pandering to me? How do you figure?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guvment Worker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WingNut Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sure, Obama is all about country.
> > >
> > > While repub policies do favor defense and
> > > corporations, Obama does the same kind of
> > > shameless pandering to unions and lazy
> > government
> > > workers.
>
> When Obama refuses to trim the waste in federal
> government, or condemns the cost cutting reforms
> undertaken at the state level in places like WI or
> NJ, he is pandering to the Machine.
>
> We need some of you, but taxpayers could really do
> without all the excess.
> >
> > He's pandering to me? How do you figure?

Points taken, and agreed. There's a big difference between pandering to the machine and pandering the the individual workers.

Kelly B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a true depression, no one wants to use the
> word. The only difference between now and the
> first depression is the government is paying for
> everything you need even if you dont have a job.
>
> In the 1920s people either starved or counted on
> the charity of others. There was no safety net
> then. Of course the government cannot keep paying
> everyones bills if 20% are not working and 50% of
> those that do work pay no income taxes.


No one alive today understands the horror of the 1920s Depression. People starved, mothers abandoned children, there were panic runs on the banks. For some bitch to say those were the good old days, shows just how stupid she is. I truly hope that if this economy tanks the DC area is hit hard. You people need to wake up.

Have to agree with Wake up, the arrogance of the DC area bubble babies is mind blowing,,,visit some reletives in the hard hit states and call them names because they can't find jobs or keep their businesses alive,,,you'll be hangin from a tree

You don't know how it is out there,,,

You THINK you do, but you don't,,,

If the tea party got control of the gov't there would be riots within months from the punitive policies they advocate,,,

Hatemotor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the tea party got control of the gov't there
> would be riots within months from the punitive
> policies they advocate,,,


So you support Ron Paul for president in all these threads, but you think the tea party in power will lead to riots in the streets and punitive policies?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guvment Worker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WingNut Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sure, Obama is all about country.
> > >
> > > While repub policies do favor defense and
> > > corporations, Obama does the same kind of
> > > shameless pandering to unions and lazy
> > government
> > > workers.
>
> When Obama refuses to trim the waste in federal
> government, or condemns the cost cutting reforms
> undertaken at the state level in places like WI or
> NJ, he is pandering to the Machine.
>
> We need some of you, but taxpayers could really do
> without all the excess.
> >
> > He's pandering to me? How do you figure?


Idiot! You say "waste" as if what remains wont impact people's lives. Admit it, you really dont mean waste, you think entire programs are waste. At least be honest.

What good has HUD, Fannie/Freddie done for housing? Why is Freddie/Fannie backing loans for half million dollar homes?

What has the Dept of Education been able to accomplish that state entities couldn't? Seems student competency levels have been pretty stagnant since it's inception.

Is every Defense project in this are completely essential to the security of our nation?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

Ultimately, taxes are going to have to go higher, maybe much higher. Nominal gdp is 4.5 trillion dollars more than in 2000, yet individual income tax receipts are almost the same and corporate income tax receipts have declined by more than half. Normalizing tax revenues for gdp, the budget gap would close to almost 500 billion dollars. Normalizing defense spending would almost fix the rest. The Pentagon budget was 3% of GDP before the two wars, and there was no $180 billion special appropriations for overseas deployments.

So much for the "under 400K" jobs numbers.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/unemployment-aid-applications-tick-down-400k-123457430.html

Now it is revised to 401K - not that I understand why they got all excited that after 14+ weeks of being over 400K they acted like 398K was something to dance about.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Les Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ultimately, taxes are going to have to go higher,
> maybe much higher. Nominal gdp is 4.5 trillion
> dollars more than in 2000, yet individual income
> tax receipts are almost the same and corporate
> income tax receipts have declined by more than
> half. Normalizing tax revenues for gdp, the budget
> gap would close to almost 500 billion dollars.
> Normalizing defense spending would almost fix the
> rest. The Pentagon budget was 3% of GDP before
> the two wars, and there was no $180 billion
> special appropriations for overseas deployments.

Taxes do not have to come higher. There is no law in economics that makes that assertion.


Why cant Congress just cut EVERYTHING 10% accross the board? I'm just pulling 10% out of thin air but whatever % we need to balance the budget? Why is that so hard and complicated? Not every, in fact not one agency is running at 100% efficiency.

400K is the most arbitrary of arbitrary numbers.

Why not say the number was over 350k?

Dumb. And simply meant to reflect negativity.

In actual fact, the numbers were LESS than expected thus are some sort of GOOD news.

But it's more fun to whine "Woe are us", huh?

[shall we mention GM's outstanding results? Nah...that's too positive]

4 more years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 400K is the most arbitrary of arbitrary numbers.

No it isn't. Every economist has explained why that number is important. You apparently can't get your news form anywhere besides OFA.


> Why not say the number was over 350k?

Because 400K is significant.

> Dumb. And simply meant to reflect negativity.

No.

The Dow Jones slides another hundred or so think morning.

You're doing a heck of a job, Bammy!

These demokrats are killing our ekonomy!!! While B. Hussein Obama parties it up in Chikagoland with his korrupt buddies our country lies in ruins!!!!!!

------------------------------------

twitter @EyeAmU

conVince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These demokrats are killing our ekonomy!!! While
> B. Hussein Obama parties it up in Chikagoland with
> his korrupt buddies our country lies in
> ruins!!!!!!


Republicans are in a panic over this big vote of nonconfidence in their handling of the economy.

Ha Ha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> conVince Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > These demokrats are killing our ekonomy!!!
> While
> > B. Hussein Obama parties it up in Chikagoland
> with
> > his korrupt buddies our country lies in
> > ruins!!!!!!
>
>
> Republicans are in a panic over this big vote of
> nonconfidence in their handling of the economy.

So much of a panic that they will be laughing all the way to the White House in 2012.

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure we're not entering another
> recession.
>
> Should have some jobs numbers for July soon, I
> doubt they'll be worth a shit.
>
> Obama really doesn't know what the fuck he is
> talking about, never has. It's always easier in a
> classroom than on the bricks.
Attachments:

Kelly B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a true depression, no one wants to use the
> word. The only difference between now and the
> first depression is the government is paying for
> everything you need even if you dont have a job.
>
> In the 1920s people either starved or counted on
> the charity of others. There was no safety net
> then. Of course the government cannot keep paying
> everyones bills if 20% are not working and 50% of
> those that do work pay no income taxes.
Attachments:

Hatemotor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have to agree with Wake up, the arrogance of the
> DC area bubble babies is mind blowing,,,visit some
> reletives in the hard hit states and call them
> names because they can't find jobs or keep their
> businesses alive,,,you'll be hangin from a tree
>
> You don't know how it is out there,,,
>
> You THINK you do, but you don't,,,
>
> If the tea party got control of the gov't there
> would be riots within months from the punitive
> policies they advocate,,,


Do you really believe that HM?

You do realize the Tea Party consists of those very same people you were talking about that are stuggling to keep their businesses afloat and fighting to keep their jobs, right?

I'm not talking about the political hacks in DC. I am talking about the people that made it a grass roots effort.

The irony is that they don't WANT the power, they want the power to stay out of their affairs and to shrink back to a size that isn't strangling the country.

4 more years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 400K is the most arbitrary of arbitrary numbers.
>
> Why not say the number was over 350k?
>
> Dumb. And simply meant to reflect negativity.
>
> In actual fact, the numbers were LESS than
> expected thus are some sort of GOOD news.
>
> But it's more fun to whine "Woe are us", huh?
>
>

"Back in February, we learned that GM was selling only 281 Volts a month. Unfortunately, it now looks like those lofty numbers may have been the Volt's heyday. In July, GM only sold 125 Volts. So, six months into its production, monthly Volt sales have dropped by more than half."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110804/MIVIEW/108040414/Laurie--What’s-wrong-with-the-Volt?#ixzz1U67CDJHi

Republicans are fucked in 2012.

Ha Ha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> conVince Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > These demokrats are killing our ekonomy!!!
> While
> > B. Hussein Obama parties it up in Chikagoland
> with
> > his korrupt buddies our country lies in
> > ruins!!!!!!
>
>
> Republicans are in a panic over this big vote of
> nonconfidence in their handling of the economy.