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Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Mysteries of the Bible ()
Date: June 26, 2011 01:05PM

Is Cain still alive? Is he amongst the current inhabitants of this earth?
http://maritimemormon.blogspot.com/2007/11/is-cain-still-alive.html

Myth, confirmed fact, or only plausible?

In the Old Testament we learn that after Cain killed Abel, a “curse” was laid on him, (no priesthood for posterity) and also that he shall have a unique mark, so that people will know and recognize him, and that he should be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth. The question is: Is Cain still alive? Is he amongst the current inhabitants of this earth?

Let’s refer to the scripture found in Genesis 4:11-15—
“And now thou art cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.”

Two things about this passage: 1) The passage does not say nor mean that Cain would never die. A mark was placed on Cain so that he would not be murdered in some sort of revenge for what he had done. That mark was a blessing to Cain in order to preserve his life, but the mark was not designed to extend life beyond the normal span. What was the mark? It could be several things, but all we know from Joseph Smith was that a black skin was placed upon him at that time. 2) In the above verses it seems as though both the Lord and Cain are using the name of Cain in a generic sense. They are not talking only about Cain the individual, but indeed the family, including the descendants of Cain. This is first apparent from Cain’s statement that every one that findeth me shall slay me. If he were speaking of himself alone, he would not have used the phrase every one that findeth me, which implies multiple findings and multiple slayings. Also the Lord doesn’t say, “whosoever slayeth thee” he says, “whosever slayeth Cain” even though he is talking right to him. The name Cain is almost used kind of like a last name or a family name in this context.


Let’s consider the writings from the lost book of Jasher.
(Jasher 2:26-30)
"And Lamech was old and advanced in years, and his eyes were dim that he could not see, and Tubal Cain, his son, was leading him and it was one day that Lamech went into the field and Tubal Cain his son was with him, and whilst they were walking in the field, Cain the son of Adam advanced towards them; for Lamech was very old and could not see much, and Tubal Cain his son was very young. And Tubal Cain told his father to draw his bow, and with the arrows he smote Cain, who was yet far off, and he slew him, for he appeared to them to be an animal. And the arrows entered Cain's body although he was distant from them, and he fell to the ground and died. And the Lord requited Cain's evil according to his wickedness, which he had done to his brother Abel, according to the word of the Lord which he had spoken. And it came to pass when Cain had died, that Lamech and Tubal went to see the animal which they had slain, and they saw, and behold Cain their grandfather was fallen dead upon the earth. And Lamech was very much grieved at having done this, and in clapping his hands together he struck his son and caused his death."

If these writings are true, then Cain is definitely dead. Question is, can we use the book of Jasher as a viable source to weigh these type of mysteries? Not really, since it is not scripture, and a questionable source for truth.

A similar legend is preserved in the pseudepigraphic Second Book of Adam and Eve, Chapter XIII; in this version Tubal-Cain is not named, but is instead referred to as "the young shepherd." After Lamech claps his hands he strikes the young shepherd on the head. To ensure his death, he then smashed his head with a rock.

Adam and Eve mourn the death of Abel, painting by William Bouguereau
Attachments:
741px-Bouguereau-The_First_Mourning-1888.jpg

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: June 26, 2011 01:11PM

I am Cain.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Mysteries of the Bible ()
Date: June 26, 2011 01:14PM

An excerpt from Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.127-128

"On the sad character Cain, an interesting story comes to us from Lycurgus A. Wilson's book on the life of David W. Patten. From the book I quote an extract from a letter by Abraham O. Smoot giving his recollection of David Patten's account of meeting "a very remarkable person who had represented himself as being Cain."As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me…. His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight.”

If this story is true, then can we assume Cain is still living and is perhaps like a Yeti?


This line is interesting, “he immediately departed out of my sight.” Does departed in this line mean walk or ran away, or does it mean vanished into thin air?


This story of Patten’s comes from the journal of Abraham Smoot. He was an early pro-slavery member who was a slave holder himself. This story in his journal is linked to his ideas of black slaves and the supposed curse of Cain. His journal was written some 20-30 years later after the events have happened, and most of his stories are second and third hand accounts which he was not witnesses too. It’s not usually good practice when relating history to use third hand accounts as evidence to events. So the validity of this story is in deep question. In fact his journal is always taken as a suspicious source for history. Abraham Smoot's journal is never taken very seriously by LDS historians. He is also the same guy who recorded the third hand story of Joseph and the angel and polygamy. He is the one who accounts the story that Joseph did not want to practice polygamy, but an angel came with a flaming sword and threatened to kill him if he did not practice polygamy. Like many of Smoot's tales they are seen as fictional and hearsay by many LDS historians, but his tales stick in our culture probably because of the mysterious and mythical stories that they are, and that we love to tell them.


It is interesting that the Three Nephites and John are all specifically told, promised, they will be around until and for the second coming, Cain is not.

Gen 4:15 "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."

If Cain could not be killed God would not have added the warning that whoever killed him would have his vengeance. Cain may still be alive and wandering, or he may be a spirit that is still wandering. Also like in David W. Patten case, it would not be the first time an apostle has been approached by an emissary of the devil in spirit.Another thought to ponder would be, if he has been killed would his spirit be cursed to wander here, or would he go to Spirit Prison to await Judgement Day?


If he was truly wandering still, and not in spirit prison, could that be the type of death he was seeking? Yet, isn’t the spirit world among us anyway, we just can’t see it? It might be possible I guess for him to be a spirit but not yet in prison. Almost as if he is trapped between the two worlds. In a sense that is prison anyway.

In the statement, “Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain” seems to be implying that it is possible to kill Cain.

Perhaps some more insight can be taken from Moses chapter 5. Also this chapter sheds some light on the book of Jasher and may enhance the validity of it.
(Moses 5)
39 Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the Lord, and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that he that findeth me will slay me, because of mine iniquities, for these things are not hid from the Lord.
40 And I the Lord said unto him: Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And I the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
41 And Cain was shut out from the presence of the Lord, and with his wife and many of his brethren dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
42 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bare Enoch, and he also begat many sons and daughters. And he builded a city, and he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch.
43 And unto Enoch was born Irad, and other sons and daughters. And Irad begat Mahujael, and other sons and daughters. And Mahujael begat Methusael, and other sons and daughters. And Methusael begat Lamech.
44 And Lamech took unto himself two wives; the name of one being Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah.
45 And Adah bare Jabal; he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and they were keepers of cattle; and his brother’s name was Jubal, who was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
46 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal Cain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron. And the sister of Tubal Cain was called Naamah.
47 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah: Hear my voice, ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech; for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
48 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech shall be seventy and seven fold;
49 For Lamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan; and Irad, the son of Enoch, having known their secret, began to reveal it unto the sons of Adam;
50 Wherefore Lamech, being angry, slew him, not like unto Cain, his brother Abel, for the sake of getting gain, but he slew him for the oath’s sake.
51 For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother.
52 Wherefore the Lord cursed Lamech, and his house, and all them that had covenanted with Satan; for they kept not the commandments of God, and it displeased God, and he ministered not unto them, and their works were abominations, and began to spread among all the sons of men. And it was among the sons of men.
53 And among the daughters of men these things were not spoken, because that Lamech had spoken the secret unto his wives, and they rebelled against him, and declared these things abroad, and had not compassion;
54 Wherefore Lamech was despised, and cast out, and came not among the sons of men, lest he should die.
55 And thus the works of darkness began to prevail among all the sons of men.

Could this scripture be suggesting that it was Cain and Tubal Cain that Lamech Killed just as the book of Jasher accounts? He also made a secret combination and oath with Satan.

I think it's more than likely he died physically at some point before the flood or at least at that point in time. Scriptures seem to be pointing this out. Patten’s story could be false all together given the source, but even if it is true, Cain could have just as well only been a Spirit at the time.

So… Is Cain still roaming the earth as a physical living being? I would say no. It seems more Myth than plausible and definitely not a confirmed fact. I believe he died long ago before the flood or in it.

What do you think about it?
Attachments:
cain-killing-abel2.jpg

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Story of meeting Cain ()
Date: June 26, 2011 01:21PM

Story of meeting Cain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Patten#Story_of_meeting_Cain

"Patten is reportedly the source of a story which has become a part of Mormon folklore. As related by Abraham O. Smoot after Patten's death, Patten says he encountered a very tall, hairy, dark-skinned man in Paris, Tennessee who said that he was Cain. The account states that Cain, the son of Adam from the Bible, had earnestly sought death but was denied it, and that his mission was to destroy the souls of men.[19][20] The recollection of Patten's story is quoted in Spencer W. Kimball's The Miracle of Forgiveness, a popular book within the LDS Church.[21] In the 1980s, Patten's story was used by some Latter-day Saints to explain Bigfoot sightings in South Weber, Utah.[22]"

Still, I don't know how the BIGFOOT story and CAIN SIGHTING story came to be joined. Neither SWK nor Bro. Patten ever used the word "BIGFOOT." Bro. Patten did however, seem to imply that the creature that he encountered on the path that day, was sort of a demon (strange personage), needing to be "rebuked" and driven away.

Now about the death of Cain...the Book of Jubilees state a complete different way of death for Cain...

29 which the Lord hath cursed.' And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth year [930 A.M.] thereof, Adam died, and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation, and he
30 was the first to be buried in the earth. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he
31 did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it. At the close of this jubilee Cain was killed after him in the same year; for his house fell upon him and he died in the midst of his house, and he was killed by its stones; for with a stone he had killed Abel, and by a stone was he killed in
32 righteous judgment.

Whereas The Book of Jasher claims Cain died of an arrow-shot to the chest, the Book of Jubliees claims it was by having his house fall in on him.

Our Bible however, seems to just to report that Cain would "be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth..." This would confirm Elder Patten's testimony a lot better.

And the Lord said of Cain, Gen 4:16: "And now art thou acursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;"

In the "The Writings of Abraham" we can read:

10:1 AND when Noah was four hundred and fifty years old, he begat a son and he called his name Japheth. 2. Forty-two years later he begat another son of her who was the mother of Japheth, and he called his name Shem. 11: 3. Eight years later Noah begat a son of his wife Naamah, who was of the seed of Cain, and he called his name Ham, for he said, Through him will the curse be preserved in the land. 12:1 NOW Noah had taken a wife of the seed of Cain, and she was a righteous woman; nevertheless, the curse remained with her seed according to the word of God. 2. And Noah took her on this wise: For the word of the Lord came unto Noah, saying, Take unto thyself Naamah, the daughter of Lamech, who dwelleth here in the city of thy fathers, for she hath been faithful to my gospel, wherefore I shall preserve through her the seed of Cain through the flood. 3. This Lamech who was the father of Naamah was of the seed of Cain being the son of Methusael, the son of Mahujael, the son of Irad, the son of Enoch, the son of Cain.

It appears that the "curse of Cain" was still a big deal many generations (clear down to Noah) after the time of Cain...and the curse carried on AFTER the flood.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Raptured ()
Date: June 26, 2011 01:43PM

Mysteries of the Bible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is Cain still alive?

I think I can honestly reply that he is as alive as he ever was.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: E.T. Stayed Home ()
Date: June 26, 2011 02:05PM

The article above seems to imply that Cain may be Bigfoot?? But there are other references to the "Wandering Jew" which some believe to be Cain.

Wandering Jew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew

The Wandering Jew is a figure from medieval Christian folklore whose legend began to spread in Europe in the 13th century. The original legend concerns a Jew who taunted Jesus on the way to the Crucifixion and was then cursed to walk the earth until the Second Coming. The exact nature of the wanderer's indiscretion varies in different versions of the tale, as do aspects of his character; sometimes he is said to be a shoemaker or other tradesman, sometimes he is the doorman at Pontius Pilate's estate.

Origin of the legendThe origins of the legend are debatable; perhaps one element is the story in Genesis of Cain, who is issued with a similar punishment — to wander over the earth, never reaping a harvest again, but scavenging. According to some sources, the legend stems from Jesus's words given in Matthew 16:28:

'Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.'(King James Version)[1]

A belief that the disciple whom Jesus loved would not die before the Second Coming was apparently popular enough in the early Christian world to be denounced in the Gospel of John:

20. And Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple following whom Jesus loved, who had also leaned on His breast at the supper, and had said, Lord, which is he who betrayeth Thee? 21. When, therefore, Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall he do? 22. Jesus saith to him, If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou Me. 23. Then this saying went forth among the brethren, that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus had not said to him that he would not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? (John 21:20-23, KJV)

A variant of the Wandering Jew legend is recorded in the Flores Historiarum by Roger of Wendover around the year 1228.[2][3] An Armenian archbishop, then visiting England, was asked by the monks of St Albans Abbey about the celebrated Joseph of Arimathea, who had spoken to Jesus, and was reported to be still alive. The archbishop answered that he had himself seen such a man in Armenia, and that his name was Cartaphilus, a Jewish shoemaker, who, when Jesus stopped for a second to rest while carrying his cross, hit him, and told him "Go on quicker, Jesus! Go on quicker! Why dost Thou loiter?", to which Jesus, "with a stern countenance," is said to have replied: "I shall stand and rest, but thou shalt go on till the last day." The Armenian bishop also reported that Cartaphilus had since converted to Christianity and spent his wandering days proselytizing and leading a hermit's life.

Matthew Paris included this passage from Roger of Wendover in his own history; and other Armenians appeared in 1252 at the Abbey of St Albans, repeating the same story, which was regarded there as a great proof of the truth of the Christian religion.[4] The same Armenian told the story at Tournai in 1243, according to the Chronicles of Phillip Mouskes, (chapter ii. 491, Brussels, 1839). After that, Guido Bonatti writes people saw the Wandering Jew in Forlì (Italy), in the 13th century; other people saw him in Vienna and elsewhere.[5]

The figure of the doomed sinner, forced to wander without the hope of rest in death till the second coming of Christ, impressed itself upon the popular medieval imagination, mainly with reference to the seeming immortality of the wandering Jewish people. These two aspects of the legend are represented in the different names given to the central figure. In German-speaking countries he is referred to as "Der Ewige Jude" (the immortal, or eternal, Jew), while in Romance-speaking countries he is known as "Le Juif Errant" (the Wandering Jew) and "L'Ebreo Errante"; the English form, probably because it is derived from the French, has followed the Romance. As Well as "El Judío Errante" (The Wandering Jew), he is known in Spanish as "Juan [el que] Espera a Dios", (John [who] waits for God,).

There have been claims of sightings of the Wandering Jew throughout Europe, since at least 1542 in Hamburg up to 1868 in Harts Corners, New York.[6] Joseph Jacobs, writing in the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica, commented 'It is difficult to tell in any one of these cases how far the story is an entire fiction and how far some ingenious impostor took advantage of the existence of the myth'.[7]

It has been alleged by an 1881 writer, who however cites no instances, that the supposed presence of the Wandering Jew has occasionally been used as a pretext for incursions by Gentiles into Jewish quarters during the late Middle Ages, when the legend was accepted as fact.

NameAt least from the 17th century the name Ahasver has been given to the Wandering Jew, apparently adapted from Ahasuerus, the Persian king in Esther, who was not a Jew, and whose very name among medieval Jews was an exemplum of a fool.[9]

A variety of names have since been given to the Wandering Jew, including Matathias, Buttadeus, Paul Marrane,[10] and Isaac Laquedem (a name for him in France and the Low Countries, in popular legend as well as in a novel by Dumas, see below).

See more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew
Attachments:
Wandering_jew.jpg

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Hollywood ()
Date: June 26, 2011 02:18PM

I don't think Cain is still around, as there are the "Apocrypha" texts that say how Cain died.


Mysteries of the Bible - Cain and Abel 1 thru 4








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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Funny_Guy ()
Date: June 26, 2011 02:25PM

I think this will answer alot of questions...


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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: ProVallone ()
Date: June 26, 2011 04:12PM

Cain sells jewelery on West 57th ST in Manhatten. Goes by the name of Goldfarb.
True story.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Genevieve ()
Date: June 26, 2011 07:14PM

Raptured Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I can honestly reply that he is as alive
> as he ever was.

Which is to say, not at all?

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: graymoose1 ()
Date: June 26, 2011 08:03PM

If anybody sees him let me know, he owes me 3 gold pieces

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: June 26, 2011 08:59PM

He is alive.

_____________________________________________________

Making friends and building bridges, one FU at a time.
Attachments:
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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: June 26, 2011 11:01PM

Religion LOL

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: June 27, 2011 12:21AM

A lot of the Old Testament stories were lifted from various earlier civilizations' mythologies and religious stories. The Great Deluge story can be found in many ancient writings in one form or another from civilizations that predated the Biblical writings.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: bernard cyr ()
Date: March 09, 2013 02:53PM

my view on this is it is not cain that patten saw but lemech, since he received the curse seven time seventy and and made a pack with satan he fell in this catergory and afther his 2 wives left him and he was cast by his peopel and was left all alone but he must convince and got another wife and they matted and the children were giants but true cannanite blood and hair were upon them and to day his decendents are known as bigfoot. and it is lemech and like his decendents he is also covered with hair and his decendents live like animals and God blessed them and made them giants and great strength to protect them and to defend them self from the animals of the forest. This also allowows them to feed themself which they have done for thousands of years. and their population is all over the earth. Iyself saw two young when I was young an d visited by one adult when I was camping in the mounting in 1969 so I know that they exist and they do not seek to harm us. a nd they are human.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: _Eyedea_ ()
Date: March 09, 2013 07:19PM

He talk to hiself
when he need someone to hate on
The black McCain campaign negative debate-a-thon
Gone wrong on a song
Who's zoomin who? Knew it was you DOOM all along
Ever since he first started the art it's been worth it
Soon to charter a stint on part of the chitlin circuit

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: did ya know? ()
Date: March 09, 2013 11:59PM

The whole mormon religion is based on an angel named Moroni visiting Joseph Smith? Thus giving birth to the term moron or moronic.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: Diaminides ()
Date: March 18, 2013 05:11PM

Every Soul who has lived on earth in the past that has not already graduated from this earth school is alive today, but in another temporary physical body so they can be continuing to learn. There are also many of the previous root-races that matriculated here, learned what they should have learned by reincarnating here and having their experiences quickly, then graduating to the higher spiritual schools beyond, some of whom have returned as teachers here to help others. . Those of the fourth root race got distracted from their spiritual goals, and should have graduated from earth long ago. They are still here, taking up much the space here now along with those of the more recently entering "classes" of Souls, of the 5th and 6th and 7th root races, many incarnating to start their schooling here in this spiritual kindergarden. That is the reason there are now so many more living here that the earth can support. We are on the way to having 10 Billion souls trying to live here together with many of the earlier ones failing their tests and unable to graduate to the next level.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: The regions that Jesus visited ()
Date: June 06, 2014 04:10AM

yes, the regions that Jesus visited because the supervision of God.Now Cain never die, never will be death, always in the run everyday a ghost without death. All these passages are in the bible. The prophets, the kings, the glory. it is getting closer to your final of life and you still wondering looking for answers because your faith. I hope you understand the plan of salvation. Why Jesus came and give his life. I hope you understand Moses the prophet. It is time to do your best, it is time to build a family and to learn the fundamentals of life, stop doing things that will affect you to learn and to feel non-confident.I hope the best for you and do your best in life so your family feel confident your surronding people feel happy and welcome with your presence.

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Re: Is the Biblical Cain Still Alive?
Posted by: PJ4kK ()
Date: June 06, 2014 07:30PM

David Carradine died a few years back...Accidentally hung himself

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