I am in the processing of buying a used car, from a dealer.

On top of required sales tax (3%) and registration/title they are trying to push another $395 in processing fee.

What the fuck is this shit?

Pure dealer profit?

It's a hell of a deal for the dealers. VA has no limit on what they can charge, I believe, MD does, I think it's $100. Buy in MD, save some $, or try and negotiate with the dealer for less.

VEIK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pure dealer profit?

Yes.

Make up for it with a lower bargained price.

I =highly= recommend bargaining via the Internet; I'll never do it again any other way.

Thats what I am trying to do.
Or to negotiate a "out the door" price.

car buyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VEIK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pure dealer profit?
>
> Yes.
>
> Make up for it with a lower bargained price.
>
> I =highly= recommend bargaining via the Internet;
> I'll never do it again any other way.

Thats what I am doing.

Guy told me that the sales tax in VA is 3.2%

Heh, its 3.0

simple car buying negotiation strategy.

Know exactly how much you want to walk out the door paying. Write a single check for that amount. Take that check and that check only to the dealership. Leave the checkbook at home. If they want to sell you a car, they will make the numbers work to fit into the amount you have written on the check. If they start saying this and that about add on costs, you simply tell them all you have is that check.

strategy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> simple car buying negotiation strategy.
>
> Know exactly how much you want to walk out the
> door paying. Write a single check for that
> amount. Take that check and that check only to
> the dealership. Leave the checkbook at home. If
> they want to sell you a car, they will make the
> numbers work to fit into the amount you have
> written on the check. If they start saying this
> and that about add on costs, you simply tell them
> all you have is that check.


YES, but only after negotiating your price. I would never disclose the amount of your loan, check whatever up front. If you have good credit and are not looking for the Eastern Motors, we finance everybody special, you can pillage dealerships right now, dont even tell them how you plan on paying till you negotiate your best price.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> strategy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > simple car buying negotiation strategy.
> >
> > Know exactly how much you want to walk out the
> > door paying. Write a single check for that
> > amount. Take that check and that check only to
> > the dealership. Leave the checkbook at home.
> If
> > they want to sell you a car, they will make the
> > numbers work to fit into the amount you have
> > written on the check. If they start saying
> this
> > and that about add on costs, you simply tell
> them
> > all you have is that check.
>
>
> YES, but only after negotiating your price. I
> would never disclose the amount of your loan,
> check whatever up front. If you have good credit
> and are not looking for the Eastern Motors, we
> finance everybody special, you can pillage
> dealerships right now, dont even tell them how you
> plan on paying till you negotiate your best price.

You generally know what the best price is before you walk in the door. You get close negotiating and when you are near your low mark, spring the check on em. They will be forced to take or leave the deal and not be able to do the dealer prep, transfer fees, etc BS that allways gets tacked on after the deal is done. I've never financed a vehicle and never would. Cash or check only.

Strategy, Smart advice. And again, even if you have to finance, Get a cashiers check from your bank and use that as "Cash" as the dealership.

JB and strategy are preaching Gospel here - everybody who's in the market for a vehicle needs to read and REREAD what they posted here

I use my uncle's method. Make sure you have either the cash or are pre-approved for a loan. Do a little research, figure out what the dealer is out of pocket for on the car, account for the sales tax, increase that overall cost by $500, walk in say "I want this car and this is what I'm willing to pay to drive it out the door. Let's not bullshit around. I don't want to waste everyone's time trying to make a sale that won't happen if I can't get it for that price, so you have 30 minutes to see if you'll do it."

He's had to walk out a few times, but in the end he's always gotten his vehicle for what he wants to pay.

It's worked for me on the two cars I've ever bought.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Everyone is on point here. I usually walk out and the salesman is chasing me out the door begging to me to stay while he speaks with the "manager".. lol

Dont let them know how you are paying for it.. If you walk in there with the attitude "I have not so good credit" or "i only have this xx much to put down", then they are going to lead this sale and not the customer.

Maryland just past a law (today or last week sometime..) that they just raised what the dealers are allowed to charge for the bullshit admisitrative fee.

The dealers do not have to do everything like they had to back in the old days, everything (mostly everything) is done electronically. I've always refused to pay those fees (after only negotiating the final price of the vehicle).

One of them tried sneaking it in and I took my check and ripped it in a couple pieces.

Years, years, years ago, I was the one who went into the dealership being the guy who said "I dont have perfect credit.. " etc, and that is when I found out the salesman are snakes. I had about 5000 in cash, and before I even said I had cash on me, they were already running my credit and then made fun of me ( my intentions were to buy cash in the first place and didnt know any better).. I had the last laugh with that salesman.. lol

By and large, new car dealers are theives. They will try and get extra $$$ anyway they can. AND they will have a rationale speech at the ready. It makes the whole buying experience a turn-off.

If you are buying in Virginia here's another goodie that they will try to stick you with. Virginia has a "gross receipts tax" which is usually a business license tax assessed by the locality. Years ago auto dealers talked the Gen Ass into permitting them to pass that tax on to the consumer. However the law only permits dealers to collect this tax from the purchaser; It does not require it. This is another add on that you can object to. If they do collect it from you the law requires that they separately state the amount. Look for it as "§ 58.1-3734 tax", "local gross receipts tax" or something similar.

Of course if you negotiate an out the door price like others have suggested here it does not matter what fees or taxes they stick you with, so long as the final number is the one you agree with. Last time I bought a car this is what I did and it worked out well. The only drawback was that I didn't include a provision REQUIRING that they deliver the car and title within a certain time period. THey kept us waiting for quite a while and during that time I think every department in the place tried to sell us some add on item or service.

```````

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:15PM by WingNut.

The other day i went to the Fairfax Honda and they said the tax was 3.2% but i thought it was only 3%

Tax:

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/sut.asp

Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax

Unless exempted under Va. Code § 58.1-2403, Virginia levys a 3% Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax based on the vehicle's gross sales price or $35, whichever is greater. This tax is collected at the time of titling whenever a vehicle is sold and/or ownership of the motor vehicle changes. If you are exempt from the motor vehicle sales and use tax, as provided by statute § 58.1-2403, bring proof of your exemption status or complete the Purchaser's Statement of Tax Exemption (SUT3) indicating the reason for exemption.

For the purposes of the Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax collection, gross sales price includes the dealer processing fee. The gross sales price is the vehicle price after the manufacturers' discounts or dealer price discounts. Gross sales price does not include any other price reductions, such as credit for trade-ins, rebates, unpaid liens or other unpaid credits.

If you are titling your vehicle in Virginia for the first time and you hold a valid assignable title or registration issued in your name by another state or a branch of the United States Armed Forces, you will not have to pay the Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax. However, if you purchased the vehicle within the preceding 12 months, you must provide proof that the sales and use tax was paid elsewhere in order to be exempt in Virginia.

For a transaction between private individuals, the minimum Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax is calculated based on the trade-in value given in the NADA Official Used Car Guide. You must present either an Affidavit for Procurement of Title (SUT-1A) if the vehicle is 5 years old or newer (based on the model year) or a Bill of Sale if the vehicle is more than 5 years old. (The sale price placed on a title certificate by the seller is the equivalent of a bill of sale.) A bill of sale must be signed by both the seller and the buyer to include the full vehicle description, vehicle identification number and date of sale.

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a hell of a deal for the dealers. VA has no
> limit on what they can charge, I believe, MD does,
> I think it's $100. Buy in MD, save some $, or try
> and negotiate with the dealer for less.

Is it complicated buying a car in MD for a resident of VA? Do they charge MD state sales tax? I've never understood how this worked out. Sounds like it might be a lot of extra paperwork.

Nope, they'll collect 3% VA tax and estimated registration fees, and that's it. Same applies if you buy, say, in NJ.

about to buy a new car Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other day i went to the Fairfax Honda and they
> said the tax was 3.2% but i thought it was only 3%


I believe this is what I was talking about in my earlier post. DMV website indicates that the sales tax rate for a vehicle is 3% of gross sales price or $35, whichever is greater, and is payable at the time of titling. It looks like the gross receipts tax rate for Fairfax City is .002 per $100 so the combined total would be 3.2%. As I said earlier though, the gross receipts tax is a tax on the dealer that the dealer is permitted but not required to pass on to the purchaser. It should (1) be separately stated on the sales form and not lumped in with other sales tax figures, and (2) be negotiable between the dealer and purchaser.

Want to test this out. Last time I checked you had the option of titling the vehicle yourself with DMV, and if you did so they collect the sales tax from DMV rather than the dealer. Tell the dealer that YOU will handle the titling of the vehicle yourself. No sales tax would be due, because DMV will collect that when you go to title the car. I will bet you that they will still try to tack on the .2% gross receipts tax. If they want to pass this tax on to you, they have to do it that way. DMV does not collect the gross receipts tax on behalf of dealers, so if the dealer doesn't get it from you when they sell the car, they are stuck paying the tax.

Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope, they'll collect 3% VA tax and estimated
> registration fees, and that's it. Same applies if
> you buy, say, in NJ.


You won't pay the VA sales tax until you go to title it in VA at the DMV. No sales tax is collected on a vehicle purchased out of state.

another reference point, if you want to by a honda for a reasonable price DO NOT BUY FROM FAIRFAX HONDA.

they are marked up higher than most every honda dealership around.


try Criswell in MD, or Pohanka Honda in Fredericksburg

ffxhondasux Wrote:

>
> try Criswell in MD, or Pohanka Honda in
> Fredericksburg

I've bought a couple of cars from Pohanka, both in Fredricksburg and in Chantilly. Very easy to deal with.

about to buy a new car Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other day i went to the Fairfax Honda and they
> said the tax was 3.2% but i thought it was only 3%

When you buy a car in ffx county there is a dealer business tax of .2%. That's why it ends up being 3.2%.

BeenThereDoneThat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Price Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nope, they'll collect 3% VA tax and estimated
> > registration fees, and that's it. Same applies
> if
> > you buy, say, in NJ.
>
>
> You won't pay the VA sales tax until you go to
> title it in VA at the DMV. No sales tax is
> collected on a vehicle purchased out of state.

If dealer does the paperwork for you, he will collect the tax.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2011 07:08PM by Price.

Derk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> about to buy a new car Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The other day i went to the Fairfax Honda and
> they
> > said the tax was 3.2% but i thought it was only
> 3%
>
> When you buy a car in ffx county there is a dealer
> business tax of .2%. That's why it ends up being
> 3.2%.


That is illegal. By law, the 0.2% gross receipts tax must be stated separately.

I do not buy cars any more. I do not want to get scammed. I just walk to the bus by my house.

ffxhondasux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> another reference point, if you want to by a honda
> for a reasonable price DO NOT BUY FROM FAIRFAX
> HONDA.
>
> they are marked up higher than most every honda
> dealership around.

All depends on how you go... I bought a Consumer Reports report on an Accord and went through their Internet sales department. Their first offer came in below the "start negotiating from here" price in the report. Maybe they were hungry that month, dunno.

I really do not see what the big deal is. All this complaining about dealer fees. Have you ever bought a house? You should think about the amount of money the realtor makes on your purchase or sale.

Dealers are not these evil people you make them out to be. They lose money a lot of times just to sell you the car. Where do they make money you ask? In service.

Momof2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really do not see what the big deal is. All this
> complaining about dealer fees. Have you ever
> bought a house? You should think about the amount
> of money the realtor makes on your purchase or
> sale.
>
> Dealers are not these evil people you make them
> out to be. They lose money a lot of times just to
> sell you the car.

All of this may be true. However when I bought my house the seller did not start adding on extra fees above the agreed upon sales price. Yes there were additional fees, but those were charged by the independent closing agent and by my lender (which is a separate rant) with none of it going to the seller, and the only taxes that were collected were those the law REQUIRED be paid by me. When I go to the dealer and work out the "purchase price" for the car, they then add on extra fees above that for no additional work on their part, and for taxes that they are authorized but not required to collect from me.

I am not saying that dealers are wrong to charge me those fees and taxes. What I am saying is that those items should have been included in the purchase price that I negotiate with the dealer, not added on as gotchas afterwards. This is why I now take the route others have suggested here, and instead of negotiating the "purchase price" I instead negotiate based on an "out the door" price which includes every fee and tax that they want me to pay.

say Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Derk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > about to buy a new car Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The other day i went to the Fairfax Honda and
> > they
> > > said the tax was 3.2% but i thought it was
> only
> > 3%
> >
> > When you buy a car in ffx county there is a
> dealer
> > business tax of .2%. That's why it ends up
> being
> > 3.2%.
>
>
> That is illegal. By law, the 0.2% gross receipts
> tax must be stated separately.

It is stated seperately on the purchase order...

Derk. I am guessing that you work for Fairfax Honda or are otherwise familiar with their form. What exactly does the form say?

That is where the GIANT the HONDA Giant is. I saw their commercials.

Bill N Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Derk. I am guessing that you work for Fairfax
> Honda or are otherwise familiar with their form.
> What exactly does the form say?

No I work for another Fairfax dealership. On the line where the license plate cost is listed it's on the same line and says Dealer's License Business Tax

Thanx. At least yours indicates that it is the DEALER's tax.

If your down payment is low, they are basically loaning you money and if they pay a secretary to track the weekly payments down it can get expensive for the dealer trying to help you.. If your paying with cash you should easily be able to talk that down cause theres no tracking its a done deal.

You guys are a bunch of cry babies. I don't wanna pay a dealership "processing fee" waw waw waw.............did you know that the profit margin on a can of green beans at the store is higher that the profit margin on a new vehicle today?? You'll pay the furniture and jewelry store 2-300% markup on their products. You'll pay a home builder a 30% margin, but GOD forbid the car dealer make his 2-5% what a rip off. You guys are a joke.

You guys like going back to the dealer for service??? You like it when the dealership it "Up to date" have complete records of all your transaction.........have skilled and trained people working there, but refuse to let them make a profit without feeling you got "screwed". Do you think the people that work their do it for free? Do you go to work for free?

The fact is, dealership would like to help you purchase the vehicle, just as the furniture store or jewelry store or any other retail establishment for that reason, but they don't have to. Remember, you went to their place of business because you had a need they could help you with. I am sure they didn't show up at your house to push vehicles on you like a vacuum sales person......correct.

You guys think that car Sales people are for some reason needy?? I don't get it. It's not welfare, people sell things because they want to, not because they have to. Keep this in mind the next time you go ask one for help with the clock on your radio, or your Bluetooth phone.....etc.......

Remember.................you went to them, at their place of business with the idea of purchasing a vehicle. It's a mutual thing.........a good deal is only perception anyway. If you think you got a good deal you did. If you feel like your getting a bad deal..........LEAVE. Don't bitch about it, pull up your big boy pants and leave.......and for the love of all.............stop being little bitches!!!

Bill............. a dealerships processing fee is posted all over the dealership showroom.................how is it a "gotcha" fee..............idiot!!!

It makes me laugh hysterically to see everyone talk about salespeople and dealerships this way. In NoVa there is NO GROSS PROFIT in selling a car. Everyone goes through True Car or USAA and the dealereships make more than 90% of their profit in service. Only problem is we price so low people fly in from other states to buy in this area and never do service with us to make up for the loss.

We employ service managers, lot porters, detail crews, accounting employees and the overhead on the building is insane in this area. Sales people are making mini deals for weeks of work with whining customers who are afraid they're going to pay 100.00 too much for their car when you can google any vehicle invoice and see the invoice price, hold back and even the employee purchase price. Customers are rude, disgusting, entitled and want everything free. It's a ridiculous problem in this area. I hope some day all the rude customers have to walk one day in a car salesperson's shoes for 0 money since it's 100% commission.

Disgusting people.

goodness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It makes me laugh hysterically to see everyone
> talk about salespeople and dealerships this way.
> In NoVa there is NO GROSS PROFIT in selling a car.
> Everyone goes through True Car or USAA and the
> dealereships make more than 90% of their profit in
> service. Only problem is we price so low people
> fly in from other states to buy in this area and
> never do service with us to make up for the loss.
>
> We employ service managers, lot porters, detail
> crews, accounting employees and the overhead on
> the building is insane in this area. Sales people
> are making mini deals for weeks of work with
> whining customers who are afraid they're going to
> pay 100.00 too much for their car when you can
> google any vehicle invoice and see the invoice
> price, hold back and even the employee purchase
> price. Customers are rude, disgusting, entitled
> and want everything free. It's a ridiculous
> problem in this area. I hope some day all the rude
> customers have to walk one day in a car
> salesperson's shoes for 0 money since it's 100%
> commission.
>
> Disgusting people.


Good.

Buying direct is the future, like Tesla.

a dealer i once worked at fired all mechanics - even 25 year running ones - all

they replaced them with spics and a few new asian

they also fired all car salesman and replace with all spics (many were white, and one black female)

they also fired the detail people replaced with all spics

they also fired the auto-glass replacers and replaced with niggers who "got a bank loan to start a new obama business"

they also fired the old auto paint people and hired a spic

--------------------
just a few facts of "doing business with spics". don't. they will be at your throat but always smile like they are your friend.

vELKH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a dealer i once worked at fired all mechanics -
> even 25 year running ones - all
>
> they replaced them with spics and a few new asian
>
> they also fired all car salesman and replace with
> all spics (many were white, and one black female)
>
> they also fired the detail people replaced with
> all spics
>
> they also fired the auto-glass replacers and
> replaced with niggers who "got a bank loan to
> start a new obama business"
>
> they also fired the old auto paint people and
> hired a spic
>
> --------------------
> just a few facts of "doing business with spics".
> don't. they will be at your throat but always
> smile like they are your friend.

Generally, I prefer to murder them at the end of the job to avoid paying them...

I have no idea why someone felt the need to resurrect a four year old thread. However since they did so...

James Jenkins-I have bought two cars since I posted the above messages. Both were purchased based on "out the door" pricing. The salesmen I dealt with had no problem using out the door prices for each car I looked at, and the numbers were comparable to what I expected from USAA and other price lists. There may be valid internal reasons for dealers to break the sales price down between the vehicle purchase price, the dealer administrative fee, the dealer's licensing tax and the licensing fees and taxes. Except for stroking the purchaser's ego though, there seems to be little advantage to the purchaser from negotiating based on a theoretical vehicle purchase price rather than the customer's out the door price.

The greatest tool a buy has is the ability to walk out the door. No need to be rude but....

A few years ago was shopping for a used car, stopped at a dealership found a car I wanted, agreed on a price then when they brought me the contract, it had the typical upcharges, I balked and they wouldn't budge, so I walked out. No hard feelings, I just said that's not what I agreed to pay.

On the ohter hand, quite a few years ago, I was shopping for a truck, had an older car to trade in. I was at Rosenthal Nissan out in Tysons's. I don't think they are still there. So they had taken my keys for an appraisal (big mistake on my part). They presented me with a deal, I said I'd think about it. Then they started pressuring me to buy the truck right then, right there. The sales manager or "Take Over Guy" came over and escalted the heat. I reapeated I'd think about it and maybe after I slept on it I'd come back tomorrow. He said with a sneer "what's the difference between tonight and tomorrow". I blew up and said "I might buy the truck tomorrow but I'm not going to buy it tonight and give me my keys to my car NOW!" I almost had to fight them to get my car back. Finally, the "Take Over Guy" simply said, "give him his keys". In fact I did buy a truck a few days later but definitely not from them.

I have no problem with people making a profit and like mentioned about they have overhead and all. But, most car salesmen are simply tyring to get as much of your money as they can, and are not providing a service.

Just a few points to clear:
Do you go to a store and negociate the price of a jacket? or the price of a dish on a restaurant?
No, right.
But you do on a car and you want to buy it for cost or lower, which begs a question to be asked, do you guys like to work for free, or pay to go to work???
I do not think anybody will do that, that is what you ask a salesman and dealerships to do, which are people who needs to make a living out of it, you do not know how little this commission based jobs pays.
Dealerships don't have thousands of dollard hiding behind the invoice figure of the car, some vehicles have only a few hundred dollars of proffit or mark up and people think it can be discounted thousands.
At the prices that most people buy vehicles there is not money left to pay employees and in order for you to drive a car you do not only need a sales person involved, there is people inspecting the vehicle at arrival from the manufacturer, somebody has to detail clean the car before you take it home, somebody has to process your paperwork and help you understand the documents you are signing, somebody deals with thedmv or mva for you, dealerships pays to verify your identity so no body buys a car on your name, credit needs to be retrived on the case of financing the car, there is an accounting department involved, marketing, building rent or mortgage, utilities to be paid, etc.
as any other bussines all employees need to be paid, what do you think, when you buy a leather jacket the price you pay includes all this expenses for the store but you do not know or ask the cost which is ussually pennies on the dollar, so who is wrong here???
The car people needs to feed their families too so be fare and don make them work for free!!!

Amen, brother, who else will go and work for free???
They would not provide their services or products for free to the same salesperson they did not let make any money (their check is commission only) and on top of that they act like they are doing you a favor buy stealing the car from you, If you work on sales on a department store you do not bargain the price and you help a customer a few minutes and get the commission, here a salesman spend hours dealing with a customer to give a car at cost or under?????
This does not seem fare at all right????

Luis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amen, brother, who else will go and work for
> free???
> They would not provide their services or products
> for free to the same salesperson they did not let
> make any money (their check is commission only)
> and on top of that they act like they are doing
> you a favor buy stealing the car from you, If you
> work on sales on a department store you do not
> bargain the price and you help a customer a few
> minutes and get the commission, here a salesman
> spend hours dealing with a customer to give a car
> at cost or under?????
> This does not seem fare at all right????

I could do without the salesman and buy a new car under cost from a vending machine. Maybe you should have been a lawyer.