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Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
Earl of Essex
()
Date: April 06, 2011 06:41AM
This from the BBC today, about balancing the UK's budget:
Surgeons say patients in some parts of England have spent months waiting in pain because of delayed operations or new restrictions on who qualifies for treatment.
In several areas routine surgery was put on hold for months, while in many others new thresholds for hip and knee replacements have been introduced.
The moves are part of the NHS drive to find £20bn efficiency savings by 2015.
The government said performance should be measured by outcomes not numbers.
Surgeons have described the delays faced by patients as "devastating and cruel". Peter Kay, the president of the British Orthopaedic Association (BOA), says they've become increasingly frustrated that hip and knee replacements are being targeted as a way of finding savings.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12964360
Surgeons say patients in some parts of England have spent months waiting in pain because of delayed operations or new restrictions on who qualifies for treatment.
In several areas routine surgery was put on hold for months, while in many others new thresholds for hip and knee replacements have been introduced.
The moves are part of the NHS drive to find £20bn efficiency savings by 2015.
The government said performance should be measured by outcomes not numbers.
Surgeons have described the delays faced by patients as "devastating and cruel". Peter Kay, the president of the British Orthopaedic Association (BOA), says they've become increasingly frustrated that hip and knee replacements are being targeted as a way of finding savings.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12964360
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 07:14AM
This isn't Obamacare, though it does sound a lot like Ryan's plan.
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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
JR
()
Date: April 06, 2011 07:42AM
Not sure if that $20 government coupon will get me to see the doctor faster, under Ryan's plan.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WingNut
()
Date: April 06, 2011 08:54AM
I seriously wonder how Boy Idiot Barack is going to justify all of the waivers that corporations were granted when it comes to ObamaCare.
Wreck the healthcare system? Double the deficit? Who cares, this is Hope and Change baby, we know whats best for you!
Wreck the healthcare system? Double the deficit? Who cares, this is Hope and Change baby, we know whats best for you!
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
bloomfield
()
Date: April 06, 2011 09:11AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't Obamacare, though it does sound a lot
> like Ryan's plan.
You realize that you're not making any coherent sense at this point, right? You're just an attack dog for anything against Obama.
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't Obamacare, though it does sound a lot
> like Ryan's plan.
You realize that you're not making any coherent sense at this point, right? You're just an attack dog for anything against Obama.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: April 06, 2011 09:36AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't Obamacare, though it does sound a lot
> like Ryan's plan.
WTL has now officially stepped over into the "idiot zone".
What part of this article had anything to do with Ryan's proposal? Nothing. Seriously, you have become a retard in your old age there WTL - might want to get checked for dementia.
...Professor John Appleby, chief economist at the Kings Fund, says it is a mystery why these operations are being targeted for savings. "I find it difficult to understand. Hip operations are quite expensive, but patients get a lot of benefit for that money. This is actually very good value for money indeed."
These delays and restrictions are a response to the financial challenge facing the NHS in England. The scale of it was set out under the last Labour government, but the decisions on how to find those savings are being made now.
The coalition government has stopped performance managing the 18 week waiting time, although it remains a legal right under the NHS constitution.
A Department of Health spokesman said: "When clinicians and patients are making decisions about joint replacement surgery, it is right that other procedures - which could provide better outcomes for patients and provide better value for taxpayers - are also considered....
Sounds like single payer managed outcomes gone awry. Or, the anecdotal evidence of what some might call "death panels". Seems like the British government, in an attempt to save money, is delaying procedures for older patients. Go figure.
If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't Obamacare, though it does sound a lot
> like Ryan's plan.
WTL has now officially stepped over into the "idiot zone".
What part of this article had anything to do with Ryan's proposal? Nothing. Seriously, you have become a retard in your old age there WTL - might want to get checked for dementia.
...Professor John Appleby, chief economist at the Kings Fund, says it is a mystery why these operations are being targeted for savings. "I find it difficult to understand. Hip operations are quite expensive, but patients get a lot of benefit for that money. This is actually very good value for money indeed."
These delays and restrictions are a response to the financial challenge facing the NHS in England. The scale of it was set out under the last Labour government, but the decisions on how to find those savings are being made now.
The coalition government has stopped performance managing the 18 week waiting time, although it remains a legal right under the NHS constitution.
A Department of Health spokesman said: "When clinicians and patients are making decisions about joint replacement surgery, it is right that other procedures - which could provide better outcomes for patients and provide better value for taxpayers - are also considered....
Sounds like single payer managed outcomes gone awry. Or, the anecdotal evidence of what some might call "death panels". Seems like the British government, in an attempt to save money, is delaying procedures for older patients. Go figure.
If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
Pinhead the Cenobite
()
Date: April 06, 2011 09:39AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't Obamacare, though it does sound a lot
> like Ryan's plan.
I normally stay out of political topics, but I have to say WTL, you are starting to cross over into the opposite universe at this point.
Try not to shed credibility by acting like a freak out case.
-----------------------------------------------
"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't Obamacare, though it does sound a lot
> like Ryan's plan.
I normally stay out of political topics, but I have to say WTL, you are starting to cross over into the opposite universe at this point.
Try not to shed credibility by acting like a freak out case.
-----------------------------------------------
"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 09:41AM
Here's why it is closer to Ryan's plan. First, insurance companies are in the business of making money. Given the proposed restrictions they will face, the only way to be profitable is to ration care. So if you are 70 and need a new knee or hip, good luck with that. In addition, Ryan wants to reinstate pre-existing conditions, so huge swaths of seniors won't even qualify for health coverage.
Truth be told, this is a big handout to the insurance companies that will ultimately do little to reduce the deficit.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Truth be told, this is a big handout to the insurance companies that will ultimately do little to reduce the deficit.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: April 06, 2011 09:43AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's why it is closer to Ryan's plan. First,
> insurance companies are in the business of making
> money. Given the proposed restrictions they will
> face, the only way to be profitable is to ration
> care. So if you are 70 and need a new knee or hip,
> good luck with that. In addition, Ryan wants to
> reinstate pre-existing conditions, so huge swaths
> of seniors won't even qualify for health
> coverage.
>
> Truth be told, this is a big handout to the
> insurance companies that will ultimately do little
> to reduce the deficit.
Um - and HOW again does that relate to this article about Government Run Healthcare (NHS) in the UK not providing services for hip and knew replacements?
Truth be told, single payer is just a big handout to the Unions like SEIU who want to be able to hold the government hostage over wage and benefits. But keep living the "Ryan denial delusion" WTL. You are becoming more of a Vince(1) every day.
If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's why it is closer to Ryan's plan. First,
> insurance companies are in the business of making
> money. Given the proposed restrictions they will
> face, the only way to be profitable is to ration
> care. So if you are 70 and need a new knee or hip,
> good luck with that. In addition, Ryan wants to
> reinstate pre-existing conditions, so huge swaths
> of seniors won't even qualify for health
> coverage.
>
> Truth be told, this is a big handout to the
> insurance companies that will ultimately do little
> to reduce the deficit.
Um - and HOW again does that relate to this article about Government Run Healthcare (NHS) in the UK not providing services for hip and knew replacements?
Truth be told, single payer is just a big handout to the Unions like SEIU who want to be able to hold the government hostage over wage and benefits. But keep living the "Ryan denial delusion" WTL. You are becoming more of a Vince(1) every day.
If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WingNut
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:12AM
How can something simultaneously be a "handout to big insurance" and be so restrictlive that they will force the insurance companies getting the "handout" to "ration care"?
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Given the proposed restrictions they will
> face, the only way to be profitable is to ration
> care.
> Truth be told, this is a big handout to the
> insurance companies that will ultimately do little
> to reduce the deficit.
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Given the proposed restrictions they will
> face, the only way to be profitable is to ration
> care.
> Truth be told, this is a big handout to the
> insurance companies that will ultimately do little
> to reduce the deficit.
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
shamu shinshi
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:23AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's why it is closer to Ryan's plan. First,
> insurance companies are in the business of making
> money. Given the proposed restrictions they will
> face, the only way to be profitable is to ration
> care. So if you are 70 and need a new knee or hip,
> good luck with that. In addition, Ryan wants to
> reinstate pre-existing conditions, so huge swaths
> of seniors won't even qualify for health
> coverage.
>
> Truth be told, this is a big handout to the
> insurance companies that will ultimately do little
> to reduce the deficit.
Dude, your argument is out in left field somewhere. Your not even speaking about the substance of the article (ie - state-run healthcare being unable to provide timely routine surgery to those in the system). You know, if you just rant and rave, you lose credibility. Just stop.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's why it is closer to Ryan's plan. First,
> insurance companies are in the business of making
> money. Given the proposed restrictions they will
> face, the only way to be profitable is to ration
> care. So if you are 70 and need a new knee or hip,
> good luck with that. In addition, Ryan wants to
> reinstate pre-existing conditions, so huge swaths
> of seniors won't even qualify for health
> coverage.
>
> Truth be told, this is a big handout to the
> insurance companies that will ultimately do little
> to reduce the deficit.
Dude, your argument is out in left field somewhere. Your not even speaking about the substance of the article (ie - state-run healthcare being unable to provide timely routine surgery to those in the system). You know, if you just rant and rave, you lose credibility. Just stop.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:31AM
WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can something simultaneously be a "handout to
> big insurance" and be so restrictlive that they
> will force the insurance companies getting the
> "handout" to "ration care"?
>
>
How do insurance companies make money? They manage costs by limiting access to expensive services. There's no way in hell insurance companies are going to participate in Ryan's plan if there isn't a windfall for them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can something simultaneously be a "handout to
> big insurance" and be so restrictlive that they
> will force the insurance companies getting the
> "handout" to "ration care"?
>
>
How do insurance companies make money? They manage costs by limiting access to expensive services. There's no way in hell insurance companies are going to participate in Ryan's plan if there isn't a windfall for them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:32AM
shamu shinshi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dude, your argument is out in left field
> somewhere. Your not even speaking about the
> substance of the article (ie - state-run
> healthcare being unable to provide timely routine
> surgery to those in the system). You know, if you
> just rant and rave, you lose credibility. Just
> stop.
The argument is access to services. Insurance companies receiving a limited stipend from the government and consumers are not going to be getting seniors in for major procedures. It just won't happen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dude, your argument is out in left field
> somewhere. Your not even speaking about the
> substance of the article (ie - state-run
> healthcare being unable to provide timely routine
> surgery to those in the system). You know, if you
> just rant and rave, you lose credibility. Just
> stop.
The argument is access to services. Insurance companies receiving a limited stipend from the government and consumers are not going to be getting seniors in for major procedures. It just won't happen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:35AM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Um - and HOW again does that relate to this
> article about Government Run Healthcare (NHS) in
> the UK not providing services for hip and knew
> replacements?
>
Because insurance companies under Ryan's plan will have not financial incentive to provide hip or knee replacements. It is more profitable to defer those things with the expectation that those seniors will die before the condition gets too bad.
> Truth be told, single payer is just a big handout
> to the Unions like SEIU who want to be able to
> hold the government hostage over wage and
> benefits. But keep living the "Ryan denial
> delusion" WTL. You are becoming more of a Vince(1)
> every day.
Truth be told, this is another GOP handout to Big Business. How long before insurance company lobbyists are on Capitol Hill crying poor and wanting increases in what the Fed is paying for their services? Seriously, have you not learned anything over the past 10 years???
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Um - and HOW again does that relate to this
> article about Government Run Healthcare (NHS) in
> the UK not providing services for hip and knew
> replacements?
>
Because insurance companies under Ryan's plan will have not financial incentive to provide hip or knee replacements. It is more profitable to defer those things with the expectation that those seniors will die before the condition gets too bad.
> Truth be told, single payer is just a big handout
> to the Unions like SEIU who want to be able to
> hold the government hostage over wage and
> benefits. But keep living the "Ryan denial
> delusion" WTL. You are becoming more of a Vince(1)
> every day.
Truth be told, this is another GOP handout to Big Business. How long before insurance company lobbyists are on Capitol Hill crying poor and wanting increases in what the Fed is paying for their services? Seriously, have you not learned anything over the past 10 years???
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:36AM
Here's the delusion. "The Private Sector fixes everything."
It doesn't. A profit motive is a dual-edged sword.
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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
It doesn't. A profit motive is a dual-edged sword.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
good point
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:39AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the delusion. "The Private Sector fixes
> everything."
You are right, the Government fixes everything.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the delusion. "The Private Sector fixes
> everything."
You are right, the Government fixes everything.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:42AM
good point Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here's the delusion. "The Private Sector fixes
> > everything."
>
> You are right, the Government fixes everything.
No. But the government did win two world wars and put man on the moon. The fact is the government is good for some things, and if you believe it isn't, I'd suggest you get off the Internet because it was developed by the government.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here's the delusion. "The Private Sector fixes
> > everything."
>
> You are right, the Government fixes everything.
No. But the government did win two world wars and put man on the moon. The fact is the government is good for some things, and if you believe it isn't, I'd suggest you get off the Internet because it was developed by the government.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
good point
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:46AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good point Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Here's the delusion. "The Private Sector
> fixes
> > > everything."
> >
> > You are right, the Government fixes everything.
>
>
> No. But the government did win two world wars and
> put man on the moon. The fact is the government is
> good for some things, and if you believe it isn't,
> I'd suggest you get off the Internet because it
> was developed by the government.
And the private sector had nothing to do whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you mentioned above.
-------------------------------------------------------
> good point Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Here's the delusion. "The Private Sector
> fixes
> > > everything."
> >
> > You are right, the Government fixes everything.
>
>
> No. But the government did win two world wars and
> put man on the moon. The fact is the government is
> good for some things, and if you believe it isn't,
> I'd suggest you get off the Internet because it
> was developed by the government.
And the private sector had nothing to do whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you mentioned above.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: April 06, 2011 10:59AM
good point Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No. But the government did win two world wars
> and
> > put man on the moon. The fact is the government
> is
> > good for some things, and if you believe it
> isn't,
> > I'd suggest you get off the Internet because it
> > was developed by the government.
>
> And the private sector had nothing to do
> whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you
> mentioned above.
Are you saying the government has nothing to do with the success of America's private industries? Private industry can operate without roads? Without communications? Without laws and regulations that keep (in theory) the markets fair?
Seriously, this idea that the government can't do anything right is fucking ridiculous. Better not call the fire department! They might not be able to put out your house fire! Better not go to a state University! They can't educate anyone! Better buy a gun and defend yourself against our enemies! That crappy military.
Grow the fuck up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No. But the government did win two world wars
> and
> > put man on the moon. The fact is the government
> is
> > good for some things, and if you believe it
> isn't,
> > I'd suggest you get off the Internet because it
> > was developed by the government.
>
> And the private sector had nothing to do
> whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you
> mentioned above.
Are you saying the government has nothing to do with the success of America's private industries? Private industry can operate without roads? Without communications? Without laws and regulations that keep (in theory) the markets fair?
Seriously, this idea that the government can't do anything right is fucking ridiculous. Better not call the fire department! They might not be able to put out your house fire! Better not go to a state University! They can't educate anyone! Better buy a gun and defend yourself against our enemies! That crappy military.
Grow the fuck up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
good point
()
Date: April 06, 2011 11:05AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good point Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > >
> > >
> > > No. But the government did win two world wars
> > and
> > > put man on the moon. The fact is the
> government
> > is
> > > good for some things, and if you believe it
> > isn't,
> > > I'd suggest you get off the Internet because
> it
> > > was developed by the government.
> >
> > And the private sector had nothing to do
> > whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you
> > mentioned above.
>
>
> Are you saying the government has nothing to do
> with the success of America's private industries?
> Private industry can operate without roads?
> Without communications? Without laws and
> regulations that keep (in theory) the markets
> fair?
Are you saying the government can accomplish all functions of a society while also growing wealth and promoting economic prosperity?
> Seriously, this idea that the government can't do
> anything right is fucking ridiculous. Better not
> call the fire department! They might not be able
> to put out your house fire! Better not go to a
> state University! They can't educate anyone!
> Better buy a gun and defend yourself against our
> enemies! That crappy military.
Seriously, this idea that business is the root of all evil is fucking ridiculous. Better not go to a grocery store! They might not be able to sell you groceries! Better not go to a private university! They can't educate anyone! Fucking retarded Harvard! Better not ship a package UPS or FedEx! You'll never get it!
> Grow the fuck up.
It looks like you are the one that needs to grow up and stop thinking the government can and will provide everything for you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> good point Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > >
> > >
> > > No. But the government did win two world wars
> > and
> > > put man on the moon. The fact is the
> government
> > is
> > > good for some things, and if you believe it
> > isn't,
> > > I'd suggest you get off the Internet because
> it
> > > was developed by the government.
> >
> > And the private sector had nothing to do
> > whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you
> > mentioned above.
>
>
> Are you saying the government has nothing to do
> with the success of America's private industries?
> Private industry can operate without roads?
> Without communications? Without laws and
> regulations that keep (in theory) the markets
> fair?
Are you saying the government can accomplish all functions of a society while also growing wealth and promoting economic prosperity?
> Seriously, this idea that the government can't do
> anything right is fucking ridiculous. Better not
> call the fire department! They might not be able
> to put out your house fire! Better not go to a
> state University! They can't educate anyone!
> Better buy a gun and defend yourself against our
> enemies! That crappy military.
Seriously, this idea that business is the root of all evil is fucking ridiculous. Better not go to a grocery store! They might not be able to sell you groceries! Better not go to a private university! They can't educate anyone! Fucking retarded Harvard! Better not ship a package UPS or FedEx! You'll never get it!
> Grow the fuck up.
It looks like you are the one that needs to grow up and stop thinking the government can and will provide everything for you.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
wut
()
Date: April 06, 2011 11:49AM
I don't get it. this article is about ppl on state(national) aid right? I'm sure if they have private insurance they can do whatever they want. r u guys sayin you want them to spend MORE tax money on social Medical programs?
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
MrMephisto
()
Date: April 06, 2011 11:55AM
--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
Bill N
()
Date: April 06, 2011 11:55AM
No I don't want Obamacare, but I also don't want the crap that was in place before Obamacare either. In one system you have government bureaucrats acting as the defacto gatekeepers on health care procedures for most people. In the other you have insurance company drones performing the same function. Yes in the US we did have the option of paying for it ourselves out of pocket, but believe it or not that same option has existed in the UK for some time, yet in both cases that option is only realistically available to the wealthy.
good point Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, this idea that business is the root of
> all evil is fucking ridiculous. Better not go to
> a grocery store! They might not be able to sell
> you groceries! Better not go to a private
> university! They can't educate anyone! Fucking
> retarded Harvard! Better not ship a package UPS
> or FedEx! You'll never get it!
Business is not the root of all evil. Even liberal talk show host Ed Schultz has recognized there is nothing inherently wrong with profit making activities. The problem is with the belief that UNREGULATED capitalism is the best way to solve problems. Both the private and the public sectors have a role to play in creating and maintaining a system that works for all of us.
good point Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, this idea that business is the root of
> all evil is fucking ridiculous. Better not go to
> a grocery store! They might not be able to sell
> you groceries! Better not go to a private
> university! They can't educate anyone! Fucking
> retarded Harvard! Better not ship a package UPS
> or FedEx! You'll never get it!
Business is not the root of all evil. Even liberal talk show host Ed Schultz has recognized there is nothing inherently wrong with profit making activities. The problem is with the belief that UNREGULATED capitalism is the best way to solve problems. Both the private and the public sectors have a role to play in creating and maintaining a system that works for all of us.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
Hatemotor
()
Date: April 06, 2011 01:56PM
Bill N and WTL are right,,, unregulated capitalism in industries like health care have led to such huge cost increases to the consumer that the gov't felt obligated to force a new system into place,,,
Every cent is being drained from the middle class AND MIDDLE CLASS BUSINESSES,,,,
I can't understand how ordinary Americans can advocate for such a small group of peoples wealth accumulation and act like these people will save the country,,,
All those tax breaks for the wealthy and the corporate welfare we provide big business isn't creating many jobs over the last 3 years
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2011 01:56PM by Hatemotor.
Every cent is being drained from the middle class AND MIDDLE CLASS BUSINESSES,,,,
I can't understand how ordinary Americans can advocate for such a small group of peoples wealth accumulation and act like these people will save the country,,,
All those tax breaks for the wealthy and the corporate welfare we provide big business isn't creating many jobs over the last 3 years
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2011 01:56PM by Hatemotor.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
Radiophile
()
Date: April 07, 2011 04:37AM
And does the article mention that all the hip replacements are free?
Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.
Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
SoylentGreen
()
Date: April 07, 2011 05:17AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good point Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > >
> > >
> > > No. But the government did win two world wars
> > and
> > > put man on the moon. The fact is the
> government
> > is
> > > good for some things, and if you believe it
> > isn't,
> > > I'd suggest you get off the Internet because
> it
> > > was developed by the government.
> >
> > And the private sector had nothing to do
> > whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you
> > mentioned above.
>
>
> Are you saying the government has nothing to do
> with the success of America's private industries?
> Private industry can operate without roads?
> Without communications? Without laws and
> regulations that keep (in theory) the markets
> fair?
>
> Seriously, this idea that the government can't do
> anything right is fucking ridiculous. Better not
> call the fire department! They might not be able
> to put out your house fire! Better not go to a
> state University! They can't educate anyone!
> Better buy a gun and defend yourself against our
> enemies! That crappy military.
>
> Grow the fuck up.
72% of the firefighters in the US are volunteer. Meaning NOT paid by the government.
Al Gore invented the internet ...in his basement ...on his own time. Just ask him.
Have you driven on the governments roads in the last ten years? Fuel taxes baby....all the rage and going to keep America's roads going strong. Fuel taxes paid at the pump........NOT by the government that decided to withhold those taxes because they needed the money for government cheese programs instead.
-------------------------------------------------------
> good point Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > >
> > >
> > > No. But the government did win two world wars
> > and
> > > put man on the moon. The fact is the
> government
> > is
> > > good for some things, and if you believe it
> > isn't,
> > > I'd suggest you get off the Internet because
> it
> > > was developed by the government.
> >
> > And the private sector had nothing to do
> > whatsoever with any of the accomplishments you
> > mentioned above.
>
>
> Are you saying the government has nothing to do
> with the success of America's private industries?
> Private industry can operate without roads?
> Without communications? Without laws and
> regulations that keep (in theory) the markets
> fair?
>
> Seriously, this idea that the government can't do
> anything right is fucking ridiculous. Better not
> call the fire department! They might not be able
> to put out your house fire! Better not go to a
> state University! They can't educate anyone!
> Better buy a gun and defend yourself against our
> enemies! That crappy military.
>
> Grow the fuck up.
72% of the firefighters in the US are volunteer. Meaning NOT paid by the government.
Al Gore invented the internet ...in his basement ...on his own time. Just ask him.
Have you driven on the governments roads in the last ten years? Fuel taxes baby....all the rage and going to keep America's roads going strong. Fuel taxes paid at the pump........NOT by the government that decided to withhold those taxes because they needed the money for government cheese programs instead.
Re: U want Obamacare?
Posted by:
yes
()
Date: April 07, 2011 05:41PM
I would be willing to guess that the 45,000,000 Americans with no health care would be very happy to wait a few months for almost any healthcare - especially if it completely covered a $40,000 hip replacement and all the additional cost of follow-ups and medication.
Are you Fucking kidding me?
Are you Fucking kidding me?