A popular chant now days is "Well where are you going to cut spending". This article gives us hope that finally a large contingent of dead weight will be thrown out of the wagon the rest of us have been pulling them around in for far to long. I personally don't care if they help us pull it or not. Some of our public sector bums deserve to be ran over by the wagon as far as I'm concerned. And you folks know who you are. Billions will be saved. Then if Obamacare can be killed and a National value added,flat or sales tax replaces the IRS we can throw another 116,000 bums out of the wagon, sell all their office buildings saving close to 7 billion dollars a year just in salaries alone.

And let me say to the fucksticks straight up that always start harping about the teachers, fireman and their usual bullshit response, Fuck You, Eat Shit, And Die.

And if you are someone who thought you sponged off the public dole your whole life in exchange for a guaranteed pension and cushy retirement and your dreams are now in doubt? Tough shit Sherlock! The Piper is calling.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704405704576064282100893372.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

LOL Why are you so angry and bitter?

It's a tried and true scare tactic of the left and big government apologists to claim that "firefighters and police officers will be fired" and to conjur up images of all the dangers that involves.

Ask any cop,fireman or EMT if there are some worthless lops their department could do without and that answer will always be yes.

You could gut the hell out of the school systems also. A lot of self-aggrandizing, overpaid nobodies there also.

Cut defense and subsidsies too for good measure, but thats another story about the federal level.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

There will never be a flat tax. First, there are too many special interests who find it advantageous to manipulate the tax code as is. Second, Congress is not going to relinquish the power that comes with having a tax code it can manipulate. Finally, I'm not sure how taxing consumption at that level (with a VAT) would be good for this country. It would be inflationary and would create a huge incentive for those with the most money to take as much purchasing power as possible offshore.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2011 09:44AM by WashingTone-Locian.

What do you think about this tax option. All taxes go to only public works such as road, firefighters, police and millitary defense. No more welfare or subsides come out of federal taxes. If you feel the need to contribute to welfare or other subsides you can donate a little extra on feb 14 or when eveer you feel like it.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There will never be a flat tax.





I thought the flat tax debate died when Forbes stopped playing politics.

Well McSmack you should look to your favourite socialist country for deficit hawklike cuts - England will be cutting 500k from it's governmental workforce. That would be the equivalent of slashing nearly 2 million from the American governmental workforce (on a ratio basis). Should be interesting to see how they go about implementing the reduction.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There will never be a flat tax. First, there are
> too many special interests who find it
> advantageous to manipulate the tax code as is.
> Second, Congress is not going to relinquish the
> power that comes with having a tax code it can
> manipulate. Finally, I'm not sure how taxing
> consumption at that level (with a VAT) would be
> good for this country. It would be inflationary
> and would create a huge incentive for those with
> the most money to take as much purchasing power as
> possible offshore.

I use to think the same way on the Tax issue. Power over the people controlling behavior is the main reason a lot of our elected leaders seek office and want to stay there.However someone still would have to run the House Ways and Means drawing up budgets.There would still be plenty of incentive for the power hungry, money grubbing slime balls. As far as all the CPA's put out of work who cares?
They can retrain.

The current tax code as structured now is growing exponentially. After the new health care bill laws gets written into it we will probably be somewhere in the hood of 20,000 pages having to hire 16,000 new agents just for health care rule enforcement alone. I think the IRS is now so big and out of control it will eventually collapse in on itself. Sooner rather than later, probably around 2014 to 2016, the people will have had enough and I don't know if it will be the Tea Party or an alliance of grass root movements emerging to demand not just an overhaul but an overthrow of the entire system. One thing's for sure, something has to give.

I'm surprised Republicans don't try to do away with fire departments all together. Fucking socialists fire fighting and police. I shouldn't have to pay to save some other Americans house. Fuck other Americans!

Britdrnva~ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well McSmack you should look to your favourite
> socialist country for deficit hawklike cuts -
> England will be cutting 500k from it's
> governmental workforce. That would be the
> equivalent of slashing nearly 2 million from the
> American governmental workforce (on a ratio
> basis). Should be interesting to see how they go
> about implementing the reduction.


Interesting indeed. Currently there are examples right here of States and municipalities slashing fire and police personnel. What will really be interesting is when the public figures out that places like New Jersey, Detroit etc. have more retired public servants on pensions than they have on the streets. Public employee unions are in big big trouble. I feel absolutely no sympathy for what's coming to the whole lot. This is a global problem as you pointed out and the streets are and will erupt. The much vaunted European social model by my more enlightened liberal brethren is going down in flames as we speak. I think it was Reagan who said if you want to decrease the size of the hog you have to stop feeding it, referring to Washington. The hog has caught on fire here and there is a lot of fat to burn. Any service the government provides spends on average 30% more on administrative cost then comparative private sector services. Efficiency isn't a priority when it comes to human resources in the public sector but they sure as hell will retrofit every light socket with a curly q CFL and waste countless billions on useless solar panels. Stupidity is the most costly commodity in our government and it should be decreased by 30% by slashing people.

Chris Christie is a showcase example of what should be at least started on the state and local level. I didn't read the story but I saw a report that even Jerry Brown in CA is going to have to play along and cut payrolls and pensions there.

I am all for hooking up those who actually have risky, life threatening and stressfull municipal jobs. But for God's sake teachers, public works, social services etc are some of the most worthless and incompetent parasites you can find anywhere.

Send them to 7-11 to compete for day jobs with the honchos.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris Christie is a showcase example of what
> should be at least started on the state and local
> level. I didn't read the story but I saw a report
> that even Jerry Brown in CA is going to have to
> play along and cut payrolls and pensions there.
>
> I am all for hooking up those who actually have
> risky, life threatening and stressfull municipal
> jobs. But for God's sake teachers, public works,
> social services etc are some of the most worthless
> and incompetent parasites you can find anywhere.
>
> Send them to 7-11 to compete for day jobs with the
> honchos.

I think we read the same article on Brown. It is ironic that the very unions he helped nurture and used to win his first governorship are now the very same organizations he will have to take an ax to. Kind of like Jimmy Carter building houses for all the poor people he created.

mcsmack wrote:
"The much vaunted European social model by my more enlightened liberal brethren is going down in flames as we speak"

It's only going down in a few countries, most of Europe is actually doing just fine (the Scandinavian countries with their highly socialist models for example). The ones that aren't - Ireland/Iceland and the southern EU entities (i.e. Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece) were never strong to begin with.

These countries employed creative financing to shore up their economies (does it sound familiar? as this sort of creative work was largely backed by the very banks that created the mess in this country). Now it's all come tumbling down.

In Britain's case - they are like a mini-US in many ways and just as the US will have to do - they are slashing govt across all levels + increasing taxes. It is the only way to reduce the deficit. The American way of increasing tax cuts will not work.

Hopefully the $12,000.00 Christmas bonuses for New York City municipal employees is over.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/devil_in_the_details_NEn8tEUn5dgXkXSjWPqL5K

Britdrnva~ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well McSmack you should look to your favourite
> socialist country for deficit hawklike cuts -
> England will be cutting 500k from it's
> governmental workforce. That would be the
> equivalent of slashing nearly 2 million from the
> American governmental workforce (on a ratio
> basis). Should be interesting to see how they go
> about implementing the reduction.


The UK is about the equivalent of California in population and economy. So you are comparing apples and oranges. The Limeys are cutting a little over 10% of their government workforce (around 700,000) over the next 4 years. You are correct about this being equal to about 2 million government workers in the US, but that is at all levels of government (local, state and federal) which is now a little less than 20 million workers. Hard to argue that having 1/6 of your total workforce working for the state is a good thing unless you're a commie or socialist. This leads to an weak and inefficient economy, such as we have. Ask Japan. They've been in recession for over 20 years.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The current tax code as structured now is growing
> exponentially.

There is absolutely no evidence to support this often-repeated statement, I don't know why people say it other than to have a neat adverb or show they can pronounce or write a word with more than two syllables, as the rest of the statement only uses words that short.

In 2006 Title 26 was 16,845 pages In 2009 it was 14,872 pages. It is clearly not growing in proportion to its size.

By the way it is easy to remember how many words the Declaration of Independence has, just think of how leet it is. 1337.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

Look mom, I'm an Internet doc too wrote:
"Hard to argue that having 1/6 of your total workforce working for the state is a good thing unless you're a commie or socialist."

I wasn't arguing that point, in fact I agree that having the government be the biggest employer is not efficient it pushes a nation deep into a socialist state (Soviet style - there has never been a truly communist country). Most European countries are guilty of this sort of socialism too (France for example is hands down the largest single employer).

I do argue that government can and should be used to serve the people....that rubs contra to the American conservative ideal but where I run with the conservatives I strongly believe in efficiencies therein.

justsayin wrote:
"In 2006 Title 26 was 16,845 pages In 2009 it was 14,872 pages. It is clearly not growing in proportion to its size.

By the way it is easy to remember how many words the Declaration of Independence has, just think of how leet it is. 1337."

The tax code is quite complicated. A simplified flat tax or taxing system that arbitrarily slaps a certain level of taxation on a set dollar amount would indeed simply the entire process and could be argued bring in more money and save the govt a lot at the same time.

I imagine also that if the Declaration of Independence were written today it would be volumes of books.

Britdrnva~ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look mom, I'm an Internet doc too wrote:
> "Hard to argue that having 1/6 of your total
> workforce working for the state is a good thing
> unless you're a commie or socialist."
>
> I wasn't arguing that point, in fact I agree that
> having the government be the biggest employer is
> not efficient it pushes a nation deep into a
> socialist state (Soviet style - there has never
> been a truly communist country). Most European
> countries are guilty of this sort of socialism too
> (France for example is hands down the largest
> single employer).
>
> I do argue that government can and should be used
> to serve the people....that rubs contra to the
> American conservative ideal but where I run with
> the conservatives I strongly believe in
> efficiencies therein.
>
>

There isn't a true communist country because once someone seized power, they will no longer subscribe to the notion that there will be no ruling class. Shocking I know. Also, as a Godless society, communism is doomed from the get-go s it puts the common good (i.e. what the state wants) above what is necessarily morally right or wrong.

You horribly misunderstand what conservative philosophy is. We TOTALLY believe that government should serve the people, not the other way around. We just don't think it's the government's job to be our parents and taking away individual liberty for the good of the less fortunate. We also have a God-based bent that takes us up a notch from the libertarian philosophy that anything is OK as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. We believe in a structured society based on the family with one man and one woman at the head of it.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A popular chant now days is "Well where are you
> going to cut spending". This article gives us hope
> that finally a large contingent of dead weight
> will be thrown out of the wagon the rest of us
> have been pulling them around in for far to long.
> I personally don't care if they help us pull it or
> not. Some of our public sector bums deserve to be
> ran over by the wagon as far as I'm concerned. And
> you folks know who you are. Billions will be
> saved. Then if Obamacare can be killed and a
> National value added,flat or sales tax replaces
> the IRS we can throw another 116,000 bums out of
> the wagon, sell all their office buildings saving
> close to 7 billion dollars a year just in salaries
> alone.
>
> And let me say to the fucksticks straight up that
> always start harping about the teachers, fireman
> and their usual bullshit response, Fuck You, Eat
> Shit, And Die.
>
> And if you are someone who thought you sponged off
> the public dole your whole life in exchange for a
> guaranteed pension and cushy retirement and your
> dreams are now in doubt? Tough shit Sherlock! The
> Piper is calling.
>
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487044
> 05704576064282100893372.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADT
> op


Pretty fucking amazing that Americans will point fingers and harp at each other about wasting of each others money and who is getting something they dont have yet we have an estimated 20 million illegal aliens in our country costing depending on who you talk to, between $30 billion and $300 billion a year to the rest of us. So who is sucking the coffer dry? Flat tax? How about 20 million paying no tax.

This war against the public sector is foolish and outrageous. The Facts about the public sectors wages/benefits are a lot more reasonable than any Conservative would care to admit.


Apples-to-Oranges

But any compensation comparison between the average federal civilian employee and average private-sector employee oversimplifies the debate, glossing over the important differences in occupation, skill level, age, and education that determine salaries. The BEA has posted an FAQ on federal pay, providing a number of reasons why the average compensation for federal civilian employees is higher than the average compensation for private-sector employees:

* Federal civilian workers are more educated.
* The federal government has a higher proportion of white-collar jobs.
* “Lower-skilled (and lower-paid) positions have been contracted out to private industries†in recent years, raising the average pay of federal civilian employees.
* Federal civilian workers receive better pension and health insurance benefits on average than private-sector employees, some of whom receive no benefits.

Furthermore, the $123,049 average compensation figure for federal workers is greatly inflated — and several thousand dollars too high. The BEA tells us that total compensation includes an unknown amount for retirees’ health and life insurance benefit.

http://factcheck.org/2010/12/are-federal-workers-overpaid/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2011 11:55AM by pas'ion.

Government employees, please defend your pensions and your value to the taxpayers or STFU.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Government employees, please defend your pensions
> and your value to the taxpayers or STFU.


* Federal civilian workers are more educated.
* The federal government has a higher proportion of white-collar jobs.
* “Lower-skilled (and lower-paid) positions have been contracted out to private industries†in recent years, raising the average pay of federal civilian employees.
* Federal civilian workers receive better pension and health insurance benefits on average than private-sector employees, some of whom receive no benefits.

pas'ion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> * Federal civilian workers are more educated.
>





I call bullshit on this one. There are a few occupations like mathematicians and economists that require PhDs and the federal government is pretty much the sole employer, but in general, federal workers are not better educated than the private sector by any stretch.

pas'ion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> * Federal civilian workers are more educated.
> * The federal government has a higher proportion
> of white-collar jobs.
> * “Lower-skilled (and lower-paid) positions have
> been contracted out to private industries†in
> recent years, raising the average pay of federal
> civilian employees.
> * Federal civilian workers receive better pension
> and health insurance benefits on average than
> private-sector employees, some of whom receive no
> benefits.


How about productivity douche bag? My guess is you're jacking off on this keyboard half the day and getting a fat check + cushy benefits.

The gravy train will derail shortly.....

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:

>
> How about productivity douche bag? .

You are the only one who knows who productive your douchebag is.

My guess is
> you're jacking off on this keyboard half the day
> and getting a fat check + cushy benefits.

You'd be wrong
>
> The gravy train will derail shortly.....

the average salary for civilian federal employees was $81,258 in 2009 — about 61 percent higher than the $50,462 paid to the average private sector worker, but not double.

Considering the average person in and around Fairfax makes in the $100,000 range that seems pretty paltry to me.

pas'ion wrote:

Considering the average person in and around Fairfax makes in the $100,000 range that seems pretty paltry to me.



Don't most of the average people in and around Fairfax work for the government?

61% higher is pretty outrageous.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

pas'ion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Government employees, please defend your
> pensions
> > and your value to the taxpayers or STFU.
>
>
> * Federal civilian workers are more educated.

Total BS.

> * The federal government has a higher proportion
> of white-collar jobs.

Yes, they did contract out the trash collection and building maintenance folks.

> * “Lower-skilled (and lower-paid) positions have
> been contracted out to private industries†in
> recent years, raising the average pay of federal
> civilian employees.

Oh, so the administrative assistants are all contract workers now? The cleaning people I would believe - but that is about it. Most of the contracting occurs at the HIGHER level positions, technology, infrastructure, etc. Most high level government employees are either paper pushers, or glorified project managers with hordes of little assistant PMs and admins working for them - managing all the contractors.

> * Federal civilian workers receive better pension
> and health insurance benefits on average than
> private-sector employees, some of whom receive no
> benefits.

Which is part of the problem. The benefits are beyond generous when compared to what folks in the private sector receive - usually nothing other than a 401K paycheck if they are lucky.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2011 12:52PM by Registered Voter.

Registered Voter Wrote:

> >
> >
> > * Federal civilian workers are more educated.
>
> Total BS.
>

The analysis is based on data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

http://www.bea.gov/faq/index.cfm?faq_id=320&start=0&cat_id=0

> > * The federal government has a higher
> proportion
> > of white-collar jobs.
>
> Yes, they did contract out the trash collection
> and building maintenance folks.
>
> > * “Lower-skilled (and lower-paid) positions
> have
> > been contracted out to private industries†in
> > recent years, raising the average pay of
> federal
> > civilian employees.
>
> Oh, so the administrative assistants are all
> contract workers now? The cleaning people I would
> believe - but that is about it. Most of the
> contracting occurs at the HIGHER level positions,
> technology, infrastructure, etc. Most high level
> government employees are either paper pushers, or
> glorified project managers with hordes of little
> assistant PMs and admins working for them -
> managing all the contractors.

So why are you complaining if higher level jobs are farmed out to private sector? SHUT UP!


> > * Federal civilian workers receive better
> pension
> > and health insurance benefits on average than
> > private-sector employees, some of whom receive
> no
> > benefits.
>

Talk to private sector CEO's about compensation and Worker/CEO pay ratios then


> Which is part of the problem. The benefits are
> beyond generous when compared to what folks in the
> private sector receive - usually nothing other
> than a 401K paycheck if they are lucky.

Again this is fair to the larger work force as opposed to the CEO pay/benefits packages ratio.

pas'ion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again this is fair to the larger work force as
> opposed to the CEO pay/benefits packages ratio.

Let's just get this straight - you are anti-business.

So fucknut, when you get rid of the businesses and CEOs and such, who will pay the taxes, and allow the government to hire people?

Wah fucking wah - really, you are just an ignorant jackass.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pas'ion Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Again this is fair to the larger work force as
> > opposed to the CEO pay/benefits packages ratio.
>
> Let's just get this straight - you are
> anti-business.
>
> So fucknut, when you get rid of the businesses and
> CEOs and such, who will pay the taxes, and allow
> the government to hire people?
>
> Wah fucking wah - really, you are just an ignorant
> jackass.


Nobody said ANYTHING about getting rid of Businesses and CEOS and such. So far with corporate loopholes, tax shelters etc the American Tax payer pays MOST of the taxes. The government isnt hring its a hiring freeze. or so the GOP would like. Im not anti business and for responsible and sane pay rates/bones etc. You are the ignorant one putting words in people's mouths and unable to write a response without being insulting.