Ok I am about to open a can of worms that has been opened before but seriosuly these people who say do away with Pit Bulls? Come on man....I really love the posts by no choice. No brain if you ask me. YES......Pit's can be dangerous but really it is the owners man. Pit's are like guns......they don't kill on their own. Dogs that kill, bite, and do whatever else "dangerous dogs" do are this way simply because the owner is too lazy, unmotivated, undisicplined, and usually too oblivious to the fact that dogs need, nahhh forget that, CRAVE structure, discipline, EXERCISE, and order. Don't provide these and the dog will fill the void the best way it knows how....to rely on their instincts. Instincts that have been a part of dogs for thousands of years no matter how domesticated they have been. Remember all dogs come from the wolf. So to wrap this up.....put down the Ho Ho's and walk your dog for longer than 10 min. Train your dog to respect your ass. Be the alpha male/female. Are you really going to let a dog run your shit like that? No choice stop being a bitch and do some reading on dogs. I swear it is idiots like you that get bit because the dog knew to bite a simp like you.

I welcome all the posts that will say: "ha your mom" and other semi-retarded rebuttals. No Choice, do not become Craig's father in Friday and get bit in the ass. Fucking moron.

Dingleberry Jenkins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Pit's are like guns......they
> don't kill on their own.

___________________________________________

Wrong answer.


Wrong in so many ways. Please do not confuse a gun with a dangerous dog and its owner.

Hummmm, one day a gun crawled out of it's safe, went down the stairs, and just shot somebody. NOPE! Sorry bud, a Pit is the same way.......you raise a confident Pit bull it won't bite you without provocation it is as simple as that. You rasie a Pit or any dog for that matter, to be fearful and it will attack. Dog's don't want to attack. Doing so leaves them open to injury. Dogs are smarter than you think....self preservation is key. Attacking is a last resort option. If you get hurt in the wild (and at the core dogs follow instructions from their wild "side" in times of extreme stress) you will die. In the end, you pull the trigger. SO buck up and show the dog who is boss. No worries about leadership = confident dog = no need to bite.

Dude, you're comparing the behavior of a sentient animal to the behavior of a piece of metal. Did you go to South Lakes, lol?

I don't really see the pit bull/firearm corollary. Guns don't have legs and are immobile without someone using them. However, if Mr. Jenkins wants to go down this path, I suppose we can. Let's put pit bulls on par with guns. This means the pit bull industry needs to be as regulated as the firearm industry. Pit bulls can only be purchased from federally licensed pit bull dealers that have met some agencies regulations to legally breed and sell pit bulls. Pit bull owners must undergo background checks as well. Neutering and defanging the animals is also required just as many gun laws limit the lethality of firearms. We need to have a bunch of people advocating the locking of pit bulls when not in use. Pit Bull raising classes must be offered. Transporting Pit Bulls into Washington, DC is illegal. Use of a Pit Bull in a crime is an aggravated offense. All pit bulls need to have a permanant identification # on record.

Flarefax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't really see the pit bull/firearm corollary.
> Guns don't have legs and are immobile without
> someone using them. However, if Mr. Jenkins wants
> to go down this path, I suppose we can. Let's put
> pit bulls on par with guns. This means the pit
> bull industry needs to be as regulated as the
> firearm industry. Pit bulls can only be purchased
> from federally licensed pit bull dealers that have
> met some agencies regulations to legally breed and
> sell pit bulls. Pit bull owners must undergo
> background checks as well. Neutering and
> defanging the animals is also required just as
> many gun laws limit the lethality of firearms. We
> need to have a bunch of people advocating the
> locking of pit bulls when not in use. Pit Bull
> raising classes must be offered. Transporting Pit
> Bulls into Washington, DC is illegal. Use of a
> Pit Bull in a crime is an aggravated offense. All
> pit bulls need to have a permanant identification
> # on record.

Actually this is not a bad idea except for the ripping out of the fangs part. No need to introduce animal cruelty into the concept.

It reminds me of Chris Rock - "Let's make everyone carry a gun, and raise the cost of a bullet to $5,000.00. Is this person really worth it?"

Whats black and brown and looks good on Dingleberry jenkins? A pitbull.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you go to South Lakes, lol?


Nice!

Actually, defanging is often court ordered for dogs. It is used as an option to euthanasia. Many state laws specifically exempt defanging from animal cruelty statutes. I am sure there are those in the Humane Society of the United States and the Peta crowd that have different opinions though. I am just not educated enough on the procedure to discuss the humaneness of such a procedure. I suppose you can argue for locking muzzles as an alternative.

Ok sorry peoples....here is what I meant in the comparison....just like a gun will not fire without a person pulling the trigger a pit bull is not breed to be a human attacker. Let's say you get a pit from the time it is a puppy....you give it exercise, train it correctly, go the whole nine and are a very responsible pet owner, you will not have a dog that is going to attack and bite for the hell of it. Hell, if you socalize the dog properly with other dogs things will be ok unless you have a male with balls meet another male with balls, then it is just nature taking over and that indicates nothing about the dog other than it is working the way nature/god/whatever you want to believe in meant it to. For every idiot with a pit bull that makes it mean or does not do everything stated above there are 9 great pit bull owners who have amazing dogs that are well-behaved and protect the home and it's owners. if you cross that line then you should get what is coming to you and that is teeth in arm/slash leg. In the end it's all on you to do the right thing and not to cop out and lay all the blame on the dog. I mean I am sorry but it's just the facts of life. People kill people. People help to make dogs mean. Go to the bookstore and pick up a copy of the Darwin Awards and you will see human stupidity on display in ways that will make you mouth drop. When in doubt blame it on the dogs.......cuz we don't want to take ownership of our lack of discipline.

Please excuse the typo...Bred in place of breed

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite


http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/DogBiteStatistics.html



Just check these out and marinate on it. I also realized that my first post was very harsh and I would rather have a healthy exchange of ideas rather than back and forth mudslinging. So to no choice, I am sorry for my name calling.....you are entitled to your opinion no matter how much I may disagree with it.

Mr. Jenkins,

Uhh, yeah, fine, we get it -- it's the owner. However, just as with gun ownership, pit bull ownership and breeding cannot be trusted to everyone. It needs regulating.

Mr. Jenkins,

Took a look at your stats, how exactly does this help your argument? Pit Bulls and Rots are the most lethal. Going back to the gun argument, ban pits and rots the same way you ban the most lethal of firearms (automatics).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Ww1.jpg

Must be a terrible dog......OF COURSE A PIT BITE will be more lethal, they were bred to drag cattle down so that the farmer could cut off the bulls nuts, brand it, or do whatever the hell else had to be done. The jaws of a pit bull are strong and that is why they can inflict damage, but this does not mean they are genetically programmed to attack at first site. It attacks cuz it senses weakness...so if faced with a dog that is looking nuts...just buck up and try to be the one running shit...in the end it's all on you.

White trash prefer Pit Bulls. I do not trust them because it is like you say, all you have to do is raise them the right way. They do not even raise their own kids the right way so I have no confidence they can raise a dog.

Owners only want the vicious breed because they want to be seen and feared. They believe the fear they receive is respect and it is not the same thing. I do not trust the breed and I trust white trash even less. Now please move the thread to a Prince William county site where I am sure it belongs.

WARNING - NOT FOR CHILDREN OR FAINT OF HEART!!!

http://aussie_news_views.typepad.com/aussie_news_views/images/pit_bull_attack_2.jpg

http://www.sugarcraft.com/catalog/novelties/scooby/2105-3207.jpg


Do not let the kids see this one

LOL @ Dr. Z

There are much more dangerous breeds than pitbulls - it is just that pitbulls have become the dog of choice for the uneducated who know nothing about how to own a pitbull -dont blame the breed - blame the owner.

It's funny how you can find negative and positve reference out there for a pitt bull. Those who state and believe that it is the owners responsibility are right!

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm

And this from AKC!

http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/did_you_know.cfm

I tend to like to listen to those that are dedicated to science, and produce assertions based on scientific observation. Hence Temple Grandin, perhaps one of the most unusual, and at the same time storied and respected animal behaviorists around - a professor at Colorado State University, and a high functioning autistic person. She writes books for the masses (which makes her delightful) as well as for scholarly publications, and is a consultant to many businesses, including the livestock industry. So let's constrain the ignorance a bit, and relate her observations. Yes, not all pit bulls are dangerous, and some are quite kind and well socialized, but as a matter of genetics and organic disposition, they are inclined to be more aggressive (and in some cases considerably more so) than most all other breeds. What does this mean? Well, the fear that many have over pit bulls is thus at some level entirely rational. A significant determinant is the owner and their dedication to training, but even with excellent training, some few of this breed are just going to be trouble. It puts extraordinary pressure on pit bull owners to be very good dog owners and trainers - something only a few of us are either talented or trained sufficiently to do. Look, I feel I am a very good dog owner - exceedingly responsible, and have an incredibly well socialized dog. But guess what? I have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, a breed, at least according to some DNA profiles, is the farthest removed from wolves (genetically speaking) of any breed. It doesn't take much to socialize my dog - in fact, she is so ridiculously harmless I am not sure it takes anything in terms of skill or hard work - except that I have put in some reasonable efforts to adapt to the human world nevertheless. So the problem with pit bulls is real - and merely saying that pit bulls are fine if the owners treat them fine is misleading - and it ignores the tremendous skill and hard work that it takes to socialize them - something very, very few people can do.

I love the dont blame the breed logic. I will try to remember that bit of wisdom as the pit bull is ripping my throat out.

Pit Bulls account for only a small percentage of dogs yet they account for the majority of attacks. Not pure chance here. Where there is smoke there is fire.

I always think of the poor old woman just south of here who was sitting on her front porch with her lap dog. The group of pit bulls attacked her and the dog killing both. Some low life piece of white trash whined because she had to go to jail for a few months over the incident. The trailer queen had been warned before about the vicious dogs but ignored it.

Dingleberry Jenkins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Th
> edogsmostlikelytobite
>
>
> http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/D
> ogBiteStatistics.html
>
>
>
> Just check these out and marinate on it. I also
> realized that my first post was very harsh and I
> would rather have a healthy exchange of ideas
> rather than back and forth mudslinging. So to no
> choice, I am sorry for my name calling.....you are
> entitled to your opinion no matter how much I may
> disagree with it.

umm... im sure it's 100% the owners fault.

i got this from the site you posted about: http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/DogBiteStatistics.html

Quote

The breeds most likely to kill

In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)

Quote
[url
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf[/url] ]

Table 2—Breeds of dogs involved in human dog bite-related fatalities between 1979 and 1998, using
death-based and dog-based approaches
                                                      Death-based approach                         Dog-based approach
  Breed                                          Purebred     Crossbred      Total           Purebred       Crossbred     Total
  Pit bull-type                                     66           11*          76*               98              20         118
  Rottweiler                                        39            6*          44*               60               7          67
  German Shepherd Dog                               17           11*          27*               24              17          41
  Husky-type (includes at least 2 Siberian)         15            6           21                15               6          21
  Malamute                                          12            3           15                13               3          16
  Wolf-dog hybrid                                    0           14           14                 0              15          15
  Mixed-breed (NOS)                                  0           12           12                 0              47          47
  Chow Chow                                          8            3           11                 8              13          21
  Doberman                                           9            1           10                12               1          13
  Saint Bernard                                      7            1            8                 7               1           8
  Great Dane                                         7            1*           7*               11               2          13
  Labrador Retriever                                 1            4            5                 1               7           8
  Akita                                              4            0            4                 4               0           4
  Sled-type (NOS)                                    3            0            3                12               0          12
  Bulldog                                            2            1            3                 2               1           3
  Mastiff                                            2            1            3                 4               1           5
  Boxer                                              2            1            3                 4               1           5
  Collie                                             0            3            3                 0               6           6
  Bullmastiff                                        1            1            2                 1               1           2
  Hound-type (NOS)                                   1            1            2                 1               1           2
  Retriever-type (NOS)                               1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Chesapeake Bay Retriever                           1            0            1                 1               0           1
  West Highland Terrier (NOS)                        1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Terrier-type (NOS)                                 1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Japanese Hunting Dog (NOS)                         1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Newfoundland                                       1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Coonhound                                          1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Sheepdog (NOS)                                     1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Australian Shepherd                                0            1            1                 0               3           3
  Rhodesian Ridgeback                                1            0            1                 1               0           1
  Cocker Spaniel                                     1            0            1                 1               0           1
    *A purebred dog and a crossbred dog of this breed were involved in a single fatality; therefore, that breed is counted only
  once in the total column.
    NOS       Not otherwise specified.

the word denial comes to mind.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

ive been raised around pitbulls my whole life. never have any of my dogs bitten someone. attack or anything. all theyre just like every other dog. you treat them like shit theyre gonna do the same to you or other people. dogs need to be trained if your dog isnt traied reguardless of the bloodline its going to act the way it wants. pitbulls = love

CountryKIDD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> theyre just like every other dog.
> you treat them like shit theyre gonna do the same
> to you or other people.

no, the difference is that they are DEADLY. note the stats chart above. i dont see any golden retrievers taking people out.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

That chart is interesting.

Since the American Pitt Bull terrier is a mixed breed, it seems that they are tied with German Shepherds with other Non Specific mixed breeds leading the danger category.

I beats my kids and I beats my dogs. I learned them good to listen to me and I never have any troubles out of em. Neither one shits in my trailer and that makes the old lady happy.

Flarefax, This is why I make my treats. No pitt bull is worth the chance.

Just yesterday I read an article of a woman being killed by her own pit bulls. She had raised them from pups. There was a 911 call from her sons asking for help. They sounded like adults so it was not kids calling.

that list is very interesting...

but then i saw "Chow Chow".. was like.. wtf is a chow chow..

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=%22chow+chow%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi - lol of course

"Chow Chow"..

My friend's mom had a Chow Chow, that fucker was the meanest, most aggressive dog I've ever been around. It would snap and bite at pretty much everybody, and it would charge people like it was a goddamn bull.

Seriously, that thing was like possessed or something.