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Concealed Carry
Posted by: Ralph Pootawn ()
Date: October 15, 2010 11:54AM

What's the best pistol to carry concealed?

GO

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: joker ()
Date: October 15, 2010 12:05PM

this one
Attachments:
joker.png

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: dontrobme ()
Date: October 15, 2010 12:32PM

I picked up a Ruger LCP the other week - truly a 'pocket pistol', you can get holsters that fit into your trouser pockets and it looks like you're carrying a wallet.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: General Lee ()
Date: October 15, 2010 12:36PM

Don't get a Ruger LCP. .380 ain't gonna do shit.

Try a Glock 26 (9mm) or Glock 27 (.40 S&W).

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Well I don't know about that... ()
Date: October 15, 2010 12:44PM

General Lee, not sure what army you're leadin', but a .380 will work just fine. And this is coming from a Glock owner...

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: fizzer ()
Date: October 15, 2010 01:07PM

There are many factors to take into consideration: your body type,normal attire you wear,size of your hands.

For me, I will carry anywhere from a 380 bersa in a bellyband to a 40 glock in a belt holster to a 1911 45 in a shoulder holster.

Alot of people still carry revolvers as cc. You need to find what works best for you.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Doesn't Matter ()
Date: October 15, 2010 01:22PM

Plus, glocks are the squarest, bulkiest, most difficult to conceal semi-auto pistols on the market (aside from the Desert Eagle). Even their sub-compacts look like you are holding a cube in your hand lol. My number 1 choice would be a shorter barreled 1911 carried with an inside the pant holster. Over all, the 1911 has a thin body to it with a nice round edged barrel. It is a .45 so... nuf said. Anyway, it doesn't matter what we think, what matters is what you feel comfortable carrying and how. AND that you have plenty of training on the pistol you plan to carry concealed. Carrying a concealed pistol around wont do you much good if all you know how to do is pull and squeeze.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Gunny ()
Date: October 15, 2010 01:36PM

Those are all guns for pussies!

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 15, 2010 01:39PM

Gunny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those are all guns for pussies!




Sounds like Internet Tough Guy will recommend a Desert Eagle or Taurus Judge.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 15, 2010 01:41PM

General Lee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't get a Ruger LCP. .380 ain't gonna do shit.
>
> Try a Glock 26 (9mm) or Glock 27 (.40 S&W).




I don't think a pistol with a double stack magazine is ideal for concealed carry.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Teh King ()
Date: October 15, 2010 02:38PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't think a pistol with a double stack
> magazine is ideal for concealed carry.

Agreed. Based on my window shopping I would look at the Kahr Arms PM9, PM40 or PM45 with a 3" barrel. The PM9 slide is 9/10 of an inch wide. Though my Glock 17 is *only* one inch wide so for as often as I would carry concealed I'mnot sure I'd drop $700 on a dedicated piece.

Really, it all depends on budget and the type of concealed carry you're looking for as well as how much you expect to shoot the gun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2010 02:39PM by Teh King.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: KK ()
Date: October 15, 2010 02:46PM

While on this subject, instead of restricting CC weapons, I think we ought to have a law RQUIRING everyone who has not been convicted of a felony to carry.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: October 15, 2010 03:03PM

My preferred in a Smith and Wesson j frame .38 special snub nose. Though I might prefer a stainless 380 magnum snub nose it its place I inherited this gun from my dad so it will do the job for now. I find my sig 229 too bulky to conceal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2010 03:04PM by Mofo.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 15, 2010 03:10PM

The best pistol for concealed carry is the one that fits you.

Consider:
Competence: It is ABSOLUTELY critical that the gun be one you can fire effectively without thinking, under stress, and ACCURATELY. Obviously this requires practice, but in selection you should also consider what you're good at. I don't shoot full Double Action very well, so a DAO autoloader or revolver is a bad idea for me. I also worry that I will forget to take the manual safety off, and I'm worried the short trigger pull may lead to negligent discharge, so I don't carry a 1911. If you are not reasonably sure you will hit what you aim at, you have no business having a gun. PERIOD. You're more dangerous than safe in that case. And of course, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.

Caliber: 380's are adequate. I've heard it said that nearly any bullet stops nearly anyone...except the person who's been shot before. Just the pain, shock, and astonishment of being shot stops most assailants. The only ones who don't panic are those that have been shot before (or those on PCP), in which case the solution is keep shooting. I prefer 9mm or better. 40Cal if you can pull it off in light of the other criteria. 45ACP is best, but is more difficult to conceal.

Concealability: As implied by the discussions about Glock's squared corners and single stack vs double stack, the wider the gun, the harder it is to conceal and the less comfortable it will be to conceal. So consider a single stack if you can, and avoiding squared off corners is desirable.

For me, I carry an S&W M&P 9c because it's one of the only small guns that fits my huge hands. If I'm wearing my trenchcoat, I might carry my Walther P99 in 40cal, because it takes a decent coat to conceal it effectively.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 15, 2010 03:11PM

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Though I might prefer a
> stainless 380 magnum snub nose...

What is a 380 magnum?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: October 15, 2010 03:16PM

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mofo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Though I might prefer a
> > stainless 380 magnum snub nose...
>
> What is a 380 magnum?

I mean 357 magnum, sorry a little short on brain cells at the moment.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: kk ()
Date: October 15, 2010 03:36PM

Where is the best place to practice in the So county area? I used to go to the range in Woodbridge, but as faras I know it is closed.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Date: October 15, 2010 03:40PM

LIKE OMG I LUVVV GOIN TO BLUE RIDGE IN CHANTILLY

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 15, 2010 03:59PM

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My preferred in a Smith and Wesson j frame .38
> special snub nose. Though I might prefer a
> stainless 380 magnum snub nose it its place I
> inherited this gun from my dad so it will do the
> job for now. I find my sig 229 too bulky to
> conceal.





Ummmm....if you find the Sig 229 too bulky to carry, why the hell is a revolver your carry piece?


Also, WTF is a 380 Magnum? Is that like a 38+P+P+P+++++?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 15, 2010 04:01PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, WTF is a 380 Magnum? Is that like a
> 38+P+P+P+++++?

Interestingly, technically, a 380, 357, 38 special, and 9mm have nearly the same bore diameter; .355".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2010 04:04PM by Kardinal.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Friendlyshooter ()
Date: October 15, 2010 04:44PM

Ruger sr9c, s&w bodyguard .38, lol s&w 500 short nose if you wanna cripple yourself in the process of destroying your target, 1911 3" barrel, xd compacts, list goes on

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: October 15, 2010 05:05PM

It was a typo I meant 357 mag.

And a smith and wesson model 36 is way more comfortable for me than a sig 229 and a lot smaller.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mofo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My preferred in a Smith and Wesson j frame .38
> > special snub nose. Though I might prefer a
> > stainless 380 magnum snub nose it its place I
> > inherited this gun from my dad so it will do
> the
> > job for now. I find my sig 229 too bulky to
> > conceal.
>
>
>
>
> Ummmm....if you find the Sig 229 too bulky to
> carry, why the hell is a revolver your carry
> piece?
>
>
> Also, WTF is a 380 Magnum? Is that like a
> 38+P+P+P+++++?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: October 15, 2010 05:43PM

dontrobme Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I picked up a Ruger LCP the other week - truly a
> 'pocket pistol', you can get holsters that fit
> into your trouser pockets and it looks like you're
> carrying a wallet.


It is nice and small and I have shot one. The barrel is short enough that hitting a target at 25 yards may be tough. But the reason one carries this gun isn't usually for 25 yards out, more like ten feet or closer. The reason I have resisted buying something that small (two-finger grip) is I'm worried in a sudden, high-stress situation it is small enough to potentially be dropped when drawing it.

The 9mm subcompact I usually carry concealed is a double-stack but is small enough for winter-time carrying. Like others said, find a friend with a collection and pay for range time for the two of you so he can show you some different types. I think the most important thing is knowing whatever gun you get, as in go to a range at least quarterly to practice with it, learn to clean and take care of it, etc. You don't want the first time you need it to be the first time you have really used it.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: IWanaGoFishing ()
Date: October 15, 2010 05:50PM

I carry a Kahr CW9. It's a subcompact single stack 9mm. Cost me about $422 out the door a few months ago. Excellent little pistol. With a decent IWB (in the waist band) holster, it just disappears and can comfortably be worn all day.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Hide The Fear? ()
Date: October 15, 2010 08:56PM

I see little utility in concealed weapons. A MUCH better deterent is an unconcealed weapon.

And no license necessary.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: October 15, 2010 09:23PM

Agreed, but from a convenience standpoint when I go out I just don't have the time or patience to sit through police questioning when some idiot calls 911 about "a man with a gun" and the 911 operator doesn't properly question the caller on if it is holstered or brandished. I prefer to carry concealed but am happy to see others open carry.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: General Lee ()
Date: October 15, 2010 09:50PM

I second the Kahr PM9.

Get a Kimber 1911 with a 3" barrel. I have a full size Kimber and I love it.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: General Lee ()
Date: October 15, 2010 09:51PM

Hide The Fear? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see little utility in concealed weapons. A MUCH
> better deterent is an unconcealed weapon.
>
> And no license necessary.

+1

I open carry all the time. When I turn 21 I'm sure I will conceal a fair amount though.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: ThePackLeader ()
Date: October 15, 2010 10:13PM

Not that I would prefer it in a heated firefight, but a .22 will do if it's all you have. I don't know much about the .380, but I do know that a .38 Special is probably all you'll ever need in a self-defense situation (It's one step up from a .380). Besides, if you get a nice S&W .357 Magnum for instance, you can always just shoot .38 Specials out of it. It represents the perfect balance of versatility between home defense and wilderness defense. A .380 would probably be good if you want a clip-loaded automatic, though (I would personally go with a nice 9mm if that's the case, however, but that's just my own biased preference since it represents what I own).

If you want a great 9mm, check-out the Browning Hi-Power. I'm not sure how well they're still being made, but the one I have is from the first half of the 20th Century, and it's an extremely solid piece. As a matter of fact, it's been a mainstay sidearm of the British SAS since as far back as I can recollect.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2010 10:16PM by ThePackLeader.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: General Lee ()
Date: October 15, 2010 10:57PM

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not that I would prefer it in a heated firefight,
> but a .22 will do if it's all you have. I don't
> know much about the .380, but I do know that a .38
> Special is probably all you'll ever need in a
> self-defense situation (It's one step up from a
> .380). Besides, if you get a nice S&W .357 Magnum
> for instance, you can always just shoot .38
> Specials out of it. It represents the perfect
> balance of versatility between home defense and
> wilderness defense. A .380 would probably be good
> if you want a clip-loaded automatic, though (I
> would personally go with a nice 9mm if that's the
> case, however, but that's just my own biased
> preference since it represents what I own).


Are you serious? People have been shot in the head multiple times by .22s and been able to walk away.

One of the employees at Guns & Ammo Warehouse in Manassas told me that he has seen .380 bounce off of someone's jacket in the winter, which is why he does not recommend the Ruger LCP.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Bill ()
Date: October 15, 2010 11:32PM

Do you really believe every story you hear from a gunshop rambo?

.380 out an LCP will do the job just fine.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: General Lee ()
Date: October 15, 2010 11:47PM


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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: October 16, 2010 09:05AM

That is funny, though that scent already frequents my garage.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Teh King ()
Date: October 16, 2010 10:02AM

I love the smell of Hoppe's #9. I walk around like Frank Booth with a Hoppe's soaked rag under my nose.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 16, 2010 11:37AM

General Lee Wrote:
> Are you serious? People have been shot in the
> head multiple times by .22s and been able to walk
> away.

I don't believe it. Maybe in the jaw, where a 45ACP won't kill you either.

General Lee Wrote:
> One of the employees at Guns & Ammo Warehouse in
> Manassas told me that he has seen .380 bounce off
> of someone's jacket in the winter, which is why he
> does not recommend the Ruger LCP.

I don't believe it.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26_2.htm

HOLLOW POINT went through FOUR jugs of water. That's plenty of penetration for any jacket.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: fred ()
Date: October 16, 2010 01:06PM

Concealed Carry is the name used in the law. The reasons to allow citizens to carry a firearm are protection and deterrence. The “concealed†part is to not make those citizens who do not like guns uncomfortable and to make the bad guy wonder who is and who is not armed. I would just a soon carry the pistol in plain sight leaving no question about my status (deterrence). But since that is not politically correct in this society I would just as soon carry a piece that is not all that much hidden and that will do the job if needed. So the .45 Colt 1911 is my suggestion.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Piggy ()
Date: October 16, 2010 04:13PM

H&K P7M8 or P7M13.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 16, 2010 04:17PM

Piggy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> H&K P7M8 or P7M13.






The P7 isn't made anymore. I'm sure people sell it used, but there are a lot of other good choices on the market without having to pay HK prices.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 16, 2010 04:20PM

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> General Lee Wrote:
> > Are you serious? People have been shot in the
> > head multiple times by .22s and been able to
> walk
> > away.
>
> I don't believe it. Maybe in the jaw, where a
> 45ACP won't kill you either.
>
> General Lee Wrote:
> > One of the employees at Guns & Ammo Warehouse
> in
> > Manassas told me that he has seen .380 bounce
> off
> > of someone's jacket in the winter, which is why
> he
> > does not recommend the Ruger LCP.
>
> I don't believe it.
>
> http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26_2.htm
>
> HOLLOW POINT went through FOUR jugs of water.
> That's plenty of penetration for any jacket.





You hear a lot of debate about the merits of the 380 ACP. One thing I hear over and over is that you should fire FMJ; there isn't enough velocity for a hollowpoint 380 to expand. I don't know, I hear something different each new person I talk to.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eeshole ()
Date: October 16, 2010 04:26PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kardinal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > General Lee Wrote:
> > > Are you serious? People have been shot in
> the
> > > head multiple times by .22s and been able to
> > walk
> > > away.
> >
> > I don't believe it. Maybe in the jaw, where a
> > 45ACP won't kill you either.
> >
> > General Lee Wrote:
> > > One of the employees at Guns & Ammo Warehouse
> > in
> > > Manassas told me that he has seen .380 bounce
> > off
> > > of someone's jacket in the winter, which is
> why
> > he
> > > does not recommend the Ruger LCP.
> >
> > I don't believe it.
> >
> > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26_2.htm
> >
> > HOLLOW POINT went through FOUR jugs of water.
> > That's plenty of penetration for any jacket.
>
>
>
>
> You hear a lot of debate about the merits of the
> 380 ACP. One thing I hear over and over is that
> you should fire FMJ; there isn't enough velocity
> for a hollowpoint 380 to expand. I don't know, I
> hear something different each new person I talk
> to.


u actually TALK to people...like in real life?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Wyatt Earp ()
Date: October 16, 2010 04:37PM

fred Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concealed Carry is the name used in the law. The
> reasons to allow citizens to carry a firearm are
> protection and deterrence. The “concealedâ€
> part is to not make those citizens who do not like
> guns uncomfortable and to make the bad guy wonder
> who is and who is not armed. I would just a soon
> carry the pistol in plain sight leaving no
> question about my status (deterrence). But since
> that is not politically correct in this society I
> would just as soon carry a piece that is not all
> that much hidden and that will do the job if
> needed. So the .45 Colt 1911 is my suggestion.


There's no way to measure if open carry is actually a deterrent, since it's difficult to interview people about wheather they'd rob someone open carrying.

There have been many documented instances (including cops) where people open carrying have been shot without warning, and their gun stolen, along with their wallet - or just their gun, which is probably worth more on the street than any pile of money in a wallet.

Unless you have superhuman speed and reflexes, what's the chance that someone will get the drop on you and pull their gun before you even know what's going on. I never saw the purpose in letting people know I'm armed. you don't show your hand when you'r eplaying poker, and you give up any advantage you might have with the uncertainty of being an armed target, along with not encouraging someone to mug me with no warning.

I personally carry a Glock 23 with no printing at all. If you try out a multitude of holsters, and dress appropriately, you can easily conceal with no problem.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: General Lee ()
Date: October 16, 2010 04:50PM

Wyatt Earp Wrote:
>
> There's no way to measure if open carry is
> actually a deterrent, since it's difficult to
> interview people about wheather they'd rob someone
> open carrying.
>
> There have been many documented instances
> (including cops) where people open carrying have
> been shot without warning, and their gun stolen,
> along with their wallet - or just their gun, which
> is probably worth more on the street than any pile
> of money in a wallet.


Really? Why don't you provide some links to these "many documented instances"?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Mr. Helper ()
Date: October 16, 2010 07:17PM

General Lee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Really? Why don't you provide some links to these
> "many documented instances"?



http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html

CDC report on violent deaths in america:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss5904.pdf

most of the rest of the links I saw were either pro or anti open carry propiganda, and I don't really have a lot of time filter through that crap.

Also, two DC police officers were shot one killed, for their handguns in the mid 90's.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: General Lee ()
Date: October 16, 2010 07:23PM

Mr. Helper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> General Lee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Really? Why don't you provide some links to
> these
> > "many documented instances"?
>
>
>
> http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html
>
>
> CDC report on violent deaths in america:
> http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss5904.pdf
>
> most of the rest of the links I saw were either
> pro or anti open carry propiganda, and I don't
> really have a lot of time filter through that
> crap.
>
> Also, two DC police officers were shot one killed,
> for their handguns in the mid 90's.


Cops don't count. I'm talking about average people who are carrying.

The first you linked you provided is the first time I've heard of someone OC'ing being robbed. That is highly unusual. But the poster said people who OC have been shot many times. I still haven't seen one case of someone who was OC'ing being shot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2010 07:23PM by General Lee.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Ms. Glock ()
Date: October 17, 2010 08:28PM

The Ruger .380 fits nicely in my purse. Ruger snub nose .38 is a little to heavy. Tauras 9mmm just too big.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kahr CW9 ()
Date: October 17, 2010 08:35PM

Ms. Glock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Ruger .380 fits nicely in my purse. Ruger
> snub nose .38 is a little to heavy. Tauras 9mmm
> just too big.

Have you checked out the new Ruger LCR? It's a polymer framed revolver, available in .38 and .357 mag with an integral laser. They're very light and small.

The lightest LCR model is only about 13 oz compared to the LCP's 9 oz.

Not much added weight for a hell of a lot more firepower and integral laser. It has a much more substantial grip and in my opinion is much easier to handle.

I'd avoid anything Taurus like the plague.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 17, 2010 11:34PM

Kahr CW9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Have you checked out the new Ruger LCR? It's a
> polymer framed revolver, available in .38 and .357
> mag with an integral laser. They're very light
> and small.





The Crimson Trace is optional, not standard, and adds around $200 to the price of the revolver. For a concealed carry piece, you don't need a laser sight at distance you will be shooting at.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Piggy ()
Date: October 18, 2010 09:44AM

Every once in awhile H&K comes out with about 500 or so new pistols. www.gunbroker.com is a great site to see what is out on the market. Yes, they are expensive. The P7 is easily concealed. I carry mine all of the time. I have carried glocks, smiths, rugers, sigs, and even the occasional 1911.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Piggy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > H&K P7M8 or P7M13.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The P7 isn't made anymore. I'm sure people sell it
> used, but there are a lot of other good choices on
> the market without having to pay HK prices.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 18, 2010 10:16AM

P7's are excellent firearms, but it seems like they're SO expensive!

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: FBO ()
Date: October 18, 2010 10:28AM

Kahr PM9 is my primary
Kahr MK9 is my backup

Or

G27 as primary
PM40 as backup

Nothing wrong with .380 if you know how to handle yourself and your firearm(s) properly.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

I say "fuck" a lot...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2010 10:29AM by FBO.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kahr CW9 ()
Date: October 18, 2010 08:05PM

FBO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kahr PM9 is my primary
> Kahr MK9 is my backup
>
> Or
>
> G27 as primary
> PM40 as backup
>
> Nothing wrong with .380 if you know how to handle
> yourself and your firearm(s) properly.


The Kahr CW9, CW40, and CW45 are cheaper alternatives to the above P-series. I love my Kahr.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 18, 2010 09:38PM

Ummmm......Kel Tec anyone?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Teh King ()
Date: October 18, 2010 10:11PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Piggy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > H&K P7M8 or P7M13.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The P7 isn't made anymore. I'm sure people sell it
> used, but there are a lot of other good choices on
> the market without having to pay HK prices.

Yeah, but is there anything like the squeeze cocker action of the P7?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: I have more than you!! ()
Date: October 18, 2010 11:58PM

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> General Lee Wrote:
> > Are you serious? People have been shot in the
> > head multiple times by .22s and been able to
> walk
> > away.
>
> I don't believe it. Maybe in the jaw, where a
> 45ACP won't kill you either.
>
> General Lee Wrote:
> > One of the employees at Guns & Ammo Warehouse
> in
> > Manassas told me that he has seen .380 bounce
> off
> > of someone's jacket in the winter, which is why
> he
> > does not recommend the Ruger LCP.
>
> I don't believe it.
>
> http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26_2.htm
>
> HOLLOW POINT went through FOUR jugs of water.
> That's plenty of penetration for any jacket.


I have a shooting range at my house in faquier county and shoot on a daily basis. As for the .22 penetration to the head I call bs and same with the 380. If I am shooting cci rounds they will go through 2 2x4 @75 yards same thing with most bulk ammo. I dont think your skull is that hard and those rounds will turn your brain into a slurpee if you were shot multiple times in the head. As for the 380 I just dont buy it unless he was wearing a kevlar jacket.
When it comes to guns don't listen to anyone but yourself because everyone has their opinion and thinks they are right.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 19, 2010 12:36AM

I have more than you!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As
> for the 380 I just dont buy it unless he was
> wearing a kevlar jacket.





LOL It doesn't take kevlar to stop a .380; a very thick leather jacket will do, especially if it was a hollowpoint, which probably expanded in the jacket.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 12:36AM by eesh.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: want to ()
Date: October 19, 2010 12:52AM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have more than you!! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As
> > for the 380 I just dont buy it unless he was
> > wearing a kevlar jacket.
>
>
>
>
> LOL It doesn't take kevlar to stop a .380; a very
> thick leather jacket will do, especially if it was
> a hollowpoint, which probably expanded in the
> jacket.


Want to test that theory?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Ralph Pootawn ()
Date: October 19, 2010 06:45AM

So, I should be fine carrying a .22?

Thanks everyone!

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 19, 2010 11:00AM

Ralph Pootawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, I should be fine carrying a .22?
>
> Thanks everyone!

No. A 22 is not a reliable self-defense weapon. It is better than nothing, but not reliable. If you shot someone in the eye or the neck, it would be effective, or at short range in the skull. But someone on PCP could keep going through a neck or eye wound, and CERTAINLY would keep going through a chest wound.

You need something big enough to cause enough shock to their system to cause them to stop doing what they're doing. Absolute minimum for that is a 380 ACP, 9mm is preferable, 40S&W suggested, and 45ACP ideal.

There have been a number of excellent recommendations for what model of weapon in this thread.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 19, 2010 11:02AM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have more than you!! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As
> > for the 380 I just dont buy it unless he was
> > wearing a kevlar jacket.
>
> LOL It doesn't take kevlar to stop a .380; a very
> thick leather jacket will do, especially if it was
> a hollowpoint, which probably expanded in the
> jacket.

Yes, it does take kevlar or similar to stop a 380. Leather will not do it. Bullets that penetrate 4-5 jugs of water have plenty of penetration to get through leather. And that was a hollow point, not even an FMJ.

It's not preferable, but it is adequate. You have presented no evidence, therefore your argument fails.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 19, 2010 11:25AM

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, it does take kevlar or similar to stop a 380.
> Leather will not do it. Bullets that penetrate
> 4-5 jugs of water have plenty of penetration to
> get through leather. And that was a hollow point,
> not even an FMJ.
>
> It's not preferable, but it is adequate. You have
> presented no evidence, therefore your argument
> fails.





1. No, it doesn't take kevlar to stop a .380...

2. We're not having an argument, we're having a discussion.

3. I don't need to present evidence when the power of Google is seconds away.

4. Try looking at ballistic gel tests, much more realistic than shooting through water jugs, especially when measuring tissue damage caused by hollowpoint expansion.

5. You have presented no evidence yourself other than "I'm Billy from Faquier County and I shoot behind my house every day."

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 19, 2010 12:27PM

Well, I think that's enough of that. No one's going to listen to your erroneous advice, which was my real objective.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Ralph Pootawn ()
Date: October 19, 2010 01:30PM

It's boiled down to either a .38 Spl or .357.

I appreciate everyone's advice.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 19, 2010 01:58PM

Ralph Pootawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's boiled down to either a .38 Spl or .357.
>
> I appreciate everyone's advice.

Both fine calibers. And revolvers are simple to use.

I find 357 in a small gun to be too much. So if you're going snubby (2" barrel or less), consider at least carrying 38 Spl rather than 357. If you feel comfortable shooting 357 in practice, it's a better solution. IF you're comfortable with it and confident you'll hit what you're aiming at automatically under stress.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 19, 2010 04:12PM

Ralph Pootawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's boiled down to either a .38 Spl or .357.
>
> I appreciate everyone's advice.




For a concealed carry revolver, I would get a S&W 442. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766343_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

It's a .38 not a .357. The latter has too much muzzle flip for a snub nose...and stick with a double action only revolver, hammers can snag when you conceal carry.


Don't pay attention to the MSRP on Smith and Wesson's website, real prices for a 442 are at least $100 less.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 04:15PM by eesh.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 19, 2010 04:15PM

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I think that's enough of that. No one's
> going to listen to your erroneous advice, which
> was my real objective.





Using your words, you have presented no evidence, therefore your argument fails. Let us know how the kid that shoots water jugs everyday fares against a real world threat someday with 95 grain bullet.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: FBO ()
Date: October 20, 2010 03:18PM

.380 CAN be an effective round, but it takes some knowledge and skill byt the operator. It may not go through a leather jacket, but it will go through your eye socket... Again, each instance is unique and i would rather have one round of .380 than a stick i found on the ground... if you know what im getting at.

Having said that, I personally dont carry smaller than 9mm (unless its my 3rd piece on me) but thats a personal choice developed from my own reasoning. But a P3AT has been known to ride around on my ankle from time to time...

Remember, if youre going to pull, its because you are in fear of your life so you shoot to kill - no such thing as a warning shot. Remmeber this when deciding on what firearm you want to carry for self defense.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

I say "fuck" a lot...

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 20, 2010 03:32PM

FBO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It may not
> go through a leather jacket, but it will go
> through your eye socket.

No, it WILL go through a leather jacket. No evidence has been presented (nor could I find any) that a leather jacket will stop a 380, hollow point or FMJ.

A personal policy of 9mm minimum is not unwise. It's my policy as well. But this garbage about 380ACP being stopped by a leather jacket is just crap and it's false.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 03:32PM by Kardinal.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 20, 2010 03:50PM

Kardinal, there's a difference between real world experience, and saying "I shot through water jugs with a .380" Clearly, you base your worldview on firing at stationary objects 10 feet in front of you.


Like I said, let us know how you defend yourself with a 95 grain bullet traveling at 950-1000 feet per second when the shit hits the fan.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 20, 2010 04:13PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kardinal, there's a difference between real world
> experience, and saying "I shot through water jugs
> with a .380"

Except you haven't shown a single bit of information indicating that a leather jacket has EVER stopped a 380 round. And I did Google and found none either.

I did, however, find many links referencing 12" ballistic gel penetration and steel fenders being penetrated. I'm pretty sure those are better protection than a leather jacket.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 20, 2010 04:42PM

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I did, however, find many links referencing 12"
> ballistic gel penetration and steel fenders being
> penetrated. I'm pretty sure those are better
> protection than a leather jacket.





LOL Was there barrier testing involved? If not, then the gel tests simulated penetration with bare skin or light clothing. Try those penetration tests with heavy jackets or denim in front of the gel. As far as the fenders go, I have seen the pics of people putting holes in steel with rimfire and .25 ACP. Doesn't mean much in the real world.


The .380 is a marginal round, especially coming out of the short barreled mouseguns. Get a snub nose revolver in .38 or the new .327 Magnum by Federal. Those are solid performers.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 20, 2010 04:49PM

And...still no evidence. Again, my objective was to ensure that people don't avoid a 380ACP gun based on erroneous information, and I think that objective is accomplished.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Aqua Buddha ()
Date: October 20, 2010 04:53PM

why is Cary concealing his identity? Do you still think he is Gravis?

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: October 20, 2010 04:54PM

There has been no erroneous information given. The .380 is an anemic round; If you don't know anything about ballistics, no amount of pictures you find on random gun forums will help you to know what you are talking about.

This all moot though, I have a feeling I'm arguing with a kid too young to buy a handgun in the first place. Check back in a couple of years when you learn about firearms from somewhere other than playing Medal of Honor or Grand Theft Auto.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: gtarman21 ()
Date: October 21, 2010 04:15PM

I am 5'11" roughly 180 pounds average build. I ccw a glock 26 just fine everyday. sometimes in my athletic shorts i cc my bersa 380. when i open carry or shoulder my glock 19 make sure you carry what feels good to you

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 21, 2010 04:23PM

gtarman21 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am 5'11" roughly 180 pounds average build. I
> ccw a glock 26 just fine everyday. sometimes in my
> athletic shorts i cc my bersa 380. when i open
> carry or shoulder my glock 19 make sure you
> carry what feels good to you

A lot of people don't recommend shoulder carry because it can be uncomfortable, difficult to fit, difficult to put on, the draw almost requires you to point your gun at an unsafe target, and it prevents you from being able to interpose your body between your assailant and your gun.

I don't know enough to say either way. I always carry strong side IWB. I carry either an M&P 9c or a Walther P99 (when I have a larger coat).

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: whiterussian ()
Date: October 21, 2010 10:40PM

Agree with Mofo, the S&W J-frame may be old school, but it is a good, concealable, and reliable gun. If you want to go auto, the Czechs have always made good little pistols, and you can find them around here. All are very concealable, and look better than the soccer dads I see with with douche bag fanny packs for their Desert Eagles, etc. Not very subtle, but another story for another day..

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: October 21, 2010 11:23PM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 11:24PM by tomahawk.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: October 22, 2010 11:07AM

whiterussian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and look better than the soccer dads I see with
> with douche bag fanny packs for their Desert
> Eagles, etc. Not very subtle, but another story
> for another day..

You are exaggerating, right? I don't imagine anyone who has a license tries to conceal a DE. Maybe one of the Baby Eagles, not a DE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2010 11:07AM by Kardinal.

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: funny quote from the other night ()
Date: October 22, 2010 04:16PM

"eesh likes to conceal carry MeFisto's nuts in his mouth!" - Anonymous

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Jesus Christ Superstar ()
Date: October 22, 2010 04:51PM

This works every time....
Attachments:
PicFkpXvt.jpg

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Russell Crowe ()
Date: October 22, 2010 04:52PM

This
Attachments:
HGMC.jpg

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: whiterussian ()
Date: October 22, 2010 10:33PM

Kardinal - I am exaggerating a little about the DEs. I just get tired of seeing conceal and carry guys lugging oversize fannypacks that could carry a couple of BAR mags at the soccer field. They are packing, but this is not Kandahar. I'm all second amendment, but let's try roll it back a little bit..

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: October 24, 2010 03:01AM

Ralph Pootawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's the best pistol to carry concealed?


pistol? you gotta man up, bro!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540
Attachments:
mp5_suitcase.jpg

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Ralph Pootawn ()
Date: October 25, 2010 11:42AM

I'll take 2 please

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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: October 25, 2010 12:49PM


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Re: Concealed Carry
Posted by: Wahhh ()
Date: October 25, 2010 05:03PM

I think the Welches Grape Mosquito is the best congealed carry
Attachments:
misfits39.JPG

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