The leak of the Pentagon Papers in 1971 was one of the final death blows to the U.S. presence in Vietnam. I wonder if the Afghanistan document dump on Wikileaks will do the same thing in Afghanistan....

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/26/afghanistan.wikileaks/?hpt=T1#fbid=eX60_N86DXu


It's way past time to get the fuck out of there. We need to take out Al Qaeda, not fight on behalf of some warlord or corrupt figurehead.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

it's too bad that i hacked wikileaks and shut the shit down.

WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT OUR MILITARY IS DOING. ARREST WIKILEAKS.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Al Qaeda will never be beat fighting a conventional war. And even if we do..there will be son and grandson of Al Qaeda unless we learn this isn't a battle for territory..that we need to get out of the Islamic world....defend Israel within the U.N. chartered borders...stop defending Islamic distators like those in Suadi Arabia...Egypt...and respect our differences with the Islamic world.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

I can't calculate it, but we must be spending in excess of $1 billion to kill each high-level member of Al Qaeda. And it's always the fucking #3 guy. It ain't working.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT OUR MILITARY IS
> DOING. ARREST WIKILEAKS.




Even though you are being facetious, I agree with this statement. Just because something is funded by taxpayers, doesn't give us an inherit right to free information. There is always information where it is unnecessary and inappropriate for the public to be aware of, and this is no different.

As for Wikileaks, the owner is just stirring shit under the guise of hating censorship.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Al Qaeda will never be beat fighting a
> conventional war. And even if we do..there will
> be son and grandson of Al Qaeda unless we learn
> this isn't a battle for territory..that we need to
> get out of the Islamic world....defend Israel
> within the U.N. chartered borders...stop defending
> Islamic distators like those in Suadi
> Arabia...Egypt...and respect our differences with
> the Islamic world.



Someone has been playing Call for Duty again, I see.

"Patrolling on foot, a Kentucky-based squad from 1st Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment, known as "Red Currahee", decided to flag down the approaching bus, so their patrol could cross the road. Before sunrise, a soldier stepped out on to Afghanistan's main highway and raised both hands in the air.

"When the bus failed t...o slow - travelers are often wary of being flagged down in Afghanistan's bandit lands - a trooper raked it with machine-gun fire. They killed four passengers and wounded 11 others." Afghanistan war logs: Secret CIA paramilitaries' role in civilian deaths."

ý"Other important findings indicate that the civilian death toll has been significantly under-reported."

"The major story to come out of these logs is a more detailed view at the relationship between Pakistan, especially its spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligences (ISI), and the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan. That relationship has been a fairly open secret over the course of the war, not just to the higher-ups in the military but to anyone following the story closely. But the level of detail in these logs brings that relationship more fully into the light, and considering the Obama Administration's backing of Pakistan (both with words and with aid money), the fact that some of these government agencies are playing a double game is very disturbing indeed."

"Logs like these are called "raw intelligence," meaning individual reports from lower-level soldiers. These reports are then used by analysts to advise those who create policy"


For Eesh:
"WikiLeaks, as is its custom, has not revealed the source of the leaks. The independent reporting muscle of the New York Times, The Guardian UK, and Der Spiegel have taken it upon themselves to research and verify the findings. In addition, WikiLeaks has withheld about 15,000 of the documents in order to redact certain sections as part of what WikiLeaks terms a "harm minimisation" process.

But the head of the Foreign Relations Committee in the US Senate said the leak came at a "critical stage" for US policy in the region.

"However illegally these documents came to light, they raise serious questions about the reality of America's policy toward Pakistan and Afghanistan," Democratic Senator John Kerry said."

Firratte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> For Eesh:
> "WikiLeaks, as is its custom, has not revealed the
> source of the leaks. The independent reporting
> muscle of the New York Times, The Guardian UK, and
> Der Spiegel have taken it upon themselves to
> research and verify the findings. In addition,
> WikiLeaks has withheld about 15,000 of the
> documents in order to redact certain sections as
> part of what WikiLeaks terms a "harm minimisation"
> process.


Okay....so Wikileaks goes to great lengths to conceal their sources and in many cases, doesn't know. How does this make them any more legitimate?

You are right Eesh... you are hopeless. You should probably stay out of this thread before you hurt yourself thinking.

Firratte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are right Eesh... you are hopeless. You should
> probably stay out of this thread before you hurt
> yourself thinking.



Is this the real Firrat, or an imposter? You never know these days.

Appparently Firratte doesn't realize that this site isn't secure. so posting that shit here can be traced back to you smart guy. even looking at it is a sin in the eyes of the govt. which is why i overlooked it.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though you are being facetious, I agree with
> this statement. Just because something is funded
> by taxpayers, doesn't give us an inherit right to
> free information. There is always information
> where it is unnecessary and inappropriate for the
> public to be aware of, and this is no different.

Let me preface by saying that these reports haven't been independently verified, I can't verify their authenticity, I haven't read them all, and I think Assange is a smug, self-righteous asshole who should have that shit-eating grin wiped off his face with a brick.

I would agree with you if I still thought the war was justified. We went to Afghanistan to arrest Bin Laden and break Al Qaeda. Back then, I would have completely agreed; the military needs to be able to operate on its own volition and initiative, and the disclosure of information would greatly hamper the war effort.

I get sick of hearing people screech "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" when what they really mean is "keep them in Afghanistan." Sending some 19-year-old kid out without sufficient body armor, ample ammo, working vehicles, and restrictions on what he's allowed to do when he's in hostile enemy territory in a war zone is NOT supporting our troops. If we're going to keep them there, we need to give them the tools and authorization they need to get the job done.

What leaked documents like these indicate, though, is that our troops are heavily restricted in how they can engage the enemy, are under-equipped, and forced to work with an Afghanistan government, military, and police that are more often than not conspiring with the enemy.

We need to let our soldiers be soldiers, or get them out of there. Yeah, we're not going to "win" by killing everyone with bullets, but we're not winning by killing them with kindness, either.

> As for Wikileaks, the owner is just stirring shit
> under the guise of hating censorship.

That, I can agree with. I've seen interviews with this guy, and he looks like some sort of effeminate, granola-eating prick. Maybe he had pure intentions to start with, but he's got an agenda now. People with agendas distort the truth, no matter what their agendas are.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

The wars in Iraq and Afganistan have been the biggest failures in US history. I cringe every time I hear of our soldiers getting killed there, knowing they died for absolutely nothing. If the answer is oil, wouldn't it really be cheaper (in money and blood) to spend it on discovering and implementing alternative energy systems? Nothing here makes sense (or cents). Let's see what happens when countries stop buying oil from the middle east. My guess is the terrorist go bankrupt and start killing themselves, Iran won't be able to afford nukes and the rest of the world becomes a much safer place. Oh, and no more oil spills destroying the oceans and atmosphere.

I don't think wars are winnable anymore in this day and age. These days, people all over the world see what goes on every day in conflicts, get accurate body counts and can watch it all on TV, like it's a video game. Every time a bomb goes astray and kills civilians, we all hear about it and condemn it.

With the exception of the middle east and a few other areas, the world is becoming more civilized and more humane and simply can't accept their sons and daughters being killed or killing for something that doesn't directly threaten them.


I don't like war of any kind, but if you're going to take part in one, you have to put both feet in, get it over with as quickly as possible and have a long term strategy for the post war era. I also don't believe you can destroy a countries military capability and then let the same assholes run the government. Even in post war Japan and Germany, the allies installed a temporary governing system until shit got sorted out. In Iraq and Afganistan, the same inept, uber religious goatfuckers are still "in charge".

I vote we get the fuck out of both places and invest the money we're wasting on security, energy and health care. Let those assholes eat their oil and sand.

We can argue all day, but nothing changes the truth. Government cernsorship on the media is rediculas and this issue cannot be thrown aside.

Situations such as gunning down civilian busses causes more hate and anger. It doesn't help the war on terrorism. We are terrorizing their people by interrupting their daily lives killing their family members.....then covering it up so we don't lose any more support in afghanistan. Imagine Iraqi troops gunning down a travel bus to DC that didn't want to stop because they were not sure of what they were being stopped for.....Imagine your little girl, father, mother, sister, brother was constantly dying and was not being recognized to keep fighting "terrorists".....

This is BS and anyone with a conscious knows this just isn't right. Armies are made to defend a nation... not terrorize other weaker nations.

Firratte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We can argue all day, but nothing changes the
> truth. Government cernsorship on the media is
> rediculas and this issue cannot be thrown aside.

Not as rediculas as that.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> That, I can agree with. I've seen interviews with
> this guy, and he looks like some sort of
> effeminate, granola-eating prick. Maybe he had
> pure intentions to start with, but he's got an
> agenda now. People with agendas distort the
> truth, no matter what their agendas are.



Who this guy? Never!


-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2010 11:37AM by eesh.
Attachments:

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even in post war Japan and Germany,
> the allies installed a temporary governing system
> until shit got sorted out. In Iraq and Afganistan,
> the same inept, uber religious goatfuckers are
> still "in charge".



WWII was easier because Germany and Japan were both fully developed nations that both had homogeneous cultures. Within a decade of reconstruction, both countries were what you would consider a stable, first world nation.

Iraq and Afghanistan are very fragmented with numerous ethnics groups that have hated each other for centuries. The only thing that kept Iraq under control was the government's iron fist. Afghanistan will never be a solid country; it's just a bunch of different tribes that are separated by long stretches of barren terrain.

Blessed are the murderous.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Iraq and Afghanistan are very fragmented with
> numerous ethnics groups that have hated each other
> for centuries. The only thing that kept Iraq under
> control was the government's iron fist.

I never saw ANY indication of an "Iron Fist" mentality from the post invasion government in Iraq. They kept harping on about "inclusion" of all sects and in theory it would be the right thing to do, but only after things got sorted out by some sort of Marshall Plan. Instead, there was nothing but corruption, infiltration and a case of inmates running the prison.


> Afghanistan will never be a solid country; it's
> just a bunch of different tribes that are
> separated by long stretches of barren terrain.


It doesn't have to be that way though. If the US had invested all that money in solar farms or something that could make the country prosperous in some way, I believe the people there would support it over the Taliban and eventually give them the boot. But it starts with a stable and strong government with a fair justice system and a police force (not an army) to enforce it.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Iraq and Afghanistan are very fragmented with
> > numerous ethnics groups that have hated each
> other
> > for centuries. The only thing that kept Iraq
> under
> > control was the government's iron fist.
>
> I never saw ANY indication of an "Iron Fist"
> mentality from the post invasion government in
> Iraq. They kept harping on about "inclusion" of
> all sects and in theory it would be the right
> thing to do, but only after things got sorted out
> by some sort of Marshall Plan. Instead, there was
> nothing but corruption, infiltration and a case of
> inmates running the prison.




No. I mean before the invasion. Iraq has always been disjointed, culturally speaking. The only reason it survived for these decades without major ethnic conflict is because of a totalitarian government. Pre-2003 speaking.

I dream a little dream.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.
Attachments:

Yeah solar panels and shit, are you fucking bonkers? Fuck those people. Solar panels. For what? So they can save up for a nuke?

==================================================================================
"Why don't you LOSERS just pack your flower print DOUCHE BAGS
and get your stoopid @$$#$ THE FUCK OFF MY INTERNETZ!"

- 'philscamms' (the YT Watchdog) ; internet & YouTube® extraordinaire.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Al Qaeda will never be beat fighting a
> conventional war. And even if we do..there will
> be son and grandson of Al Qaeda unless we learn
> this isn't a battle for territory..that we need to
> get out of the Islamic world....defend Israel
> within the U.N. chartered borders...stop defending
> Islamic distators like those in Suadi
> Arabia...Egypt...and respect our differences with
> the Islamic world.

There you go with that "we" shit again. Vince, you are not qualified to
include yourself with those who actually participate. Troops fight the
wars while chickens hide behind mommies apron strings.

Obama's war is certainly not going well. If those in charge openly mock the administration to demokrat shitrags like Rolling $tone, and these leaks show Obama is in charge of so many civilian deaths there, this will not go well.

I'm with what someone tweeted today to Joe Scarborough... if there are only 50 of Vince's freedom fighters (AQ) members left in Afghanistan, then get them and leave. Nationbuilding there is dumb because there was no nation when the US got there. The enemy is in cahoots with who the US thinks are friends. Best to remove the ground troops, park some naval vessels, and let them and the CIA pick off whatever targets they want with drones for the foreseeable future at one half percent the cost in dollars and no more American casualties. Change the mission to containment, the strategy that was working in Iraq until the demokrats openly voted to enable Bush to make it something different.

------------------------------------

twitter @EyeAmU

eesh Wrote:

> As for Wikileaks, the owner is just stirring shit
> under the guise of hating censorship.


+1

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

Doesn't the accused Wikileaks snitch/source look a little like someone else?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

Attachments:

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> +1


ghey

They did give up the source of the leak Manning is his last name and he worked with intelligence within the enlisted ranks.

I believe we need more heros exposing the truth to the public, with that then we have no accountability and with accountability we have no responsibility. We need transparency the lack of such put our economy in the toilet and a lot of people without jobs. Investgativd journalism died under Bush for a reason, so he could do what he wanted. Without something like this we have no pulse on reality. As far as that BS about security the damage has already been done and the people in Afgan know the truth and are treating us accordingly. If everyone else in that part of the world knows the truth then why shouldn't we? FYI it is called CYA. How often have you seen our government dealing in the truth? A lack of transparency means a secretive atmosphere which breds corruption, like Adu Grave (sp?) and so much more.

You can not look back at history and say there was never an agenda. The deaths of Pres. John Kennedy, his brother and MLKing was an inside job to achieve an evil agenda. 9/11 was an inside job and so many more. Hell destroying the Native American was an inside job. One nation will never succeed at the expense of another. Up til now we have been exploiting this beautiful country for the benefit of capitalism. Not should a great benefit when capitalism destroys the only world we know. Capitalism does not take into account the human factor and that is only destructive, ignorant and terrorizing because we have polluted the air, water and life. We can afford any more secrets accountability is required of our government which has created most of the problems.

Agenda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can not look back at history and say there was
> never an agenda. The deaths of Pres. John Kennedy,
> his brother and MLKing was an inside job to
> achieve an evil agenda. 9/11 was an inside job and
> so many more. Hell destroying the Native American
> was an inside job. One nation will never succeed
> at the expense of another.



Damned lizard people controlling the world.

Blessed are the murderous.

It's time to bring back the firing squads.

As for that little Euro trash POS, who knows, maybe he'll end up OD'ng on some badass Amsterdam X, or he'll have an auto accident into a Dutch canal.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Numbers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > eesh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Iraq and Afghanistan are very fragmented with
> > > numerous ethnics groups that have hated each
> > other
> > > for centuries. The only thing that kept Iraq
> > under
> > > control was the government's iron fist.
> >
> > I never saw ANY indication of an "Iron Fist"
> > mentality from the post invasion government in
> > Iraq. They kept harping on about "inclusion" of
> > all sects and in theory it would be the right
> > thing to do, but only after things got sorted
> out
> > by some sort of Marshall Plan. Instead, there
> was
> > nothing but corruption, infiltration and a case
> of
> > inmates running the prison.
>
>
>
>
> No. I mean before the invasion. Iraq has always
> been disjointed, culturally speaking. The only
> reason it survived for these decades without major
> ethnic conflict is because of a totalitarian
> government. Pre-2003 speaking.


You're right on that account. Not to mention the fact that not every group of people in the world respond to the same forms of governance that we do. In most of the Muslim nations, you have to be hard as nails. They don't respect pansies over there. As a matter of fact, the Developed "Western World" is really the only place on Earth where people seem to follow and respect pussified fruit-cake individuals.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Vince(1) Wrote:

Vince you actually have a few good points but I have a feeling you don't know why so let me fine tune your context just a bit
-------------------------------------------------------

> Al Qaeda will never be beat fighting a
> conventional war.

You are right. We will never completely eradicate radical Islamic terrorist orgs. They practice guerrilla warfare and raise their own children to be suicide bombers. They operate in small cells and sleeper cells which are better terminated through our intelligence services infiltrating and co-opting their operations. Tools like "The Patriot Act" which I know your're a big fan of are critical to our success in this area.

And even if we do..there will
> be son and grandson of Al Qaeda unless we learn
> this isn't a battle for territory..

I don't know anyone (anyone with their head out of their ass anyway) that looks at our efforts in the middle east as a battle for territory.


that we need to
> get out of the Islamic world....defend Israel
> within the U.N. chartered borders...

We need to keep Israel armed to the hilt and especially support any preemptive strike on Iran which at this point is a certainty.


stop defending
> Islamic distators like those in Suadi
> Arabia...Egypt...

Develop our own crude oil supply and we could tell, (Get this shit) King of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz Bin Abdulrahman Bin Faisal Bin Turki Bin Abdullah Bin Muhammad Bin Saud, (Yes that is his real fucking name) to collectively kiss our red white and blue asses.


and respect our differences with
> the Islamic world.

You know what Vince? I'm tired of being the one that has to be all understanding and shit. It's about high fucking time these Islamic fundamentalist start understanding me and my culture. At least we don't teach our kids that women were spawned from Satan.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
>
> Vince you actually have a few good points but I
> have a feeling you don't know why so let me fine
> tune your context just a bit
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Al Qaeda will never be beat fighting a
> > conventional war.
>
> You are right. We will never completely
> eradicate radical Islamic terrorist orgs. They
> practice guerrilla warfare and raise their own
> children to be suicide bombers. They operate in
> small cells and sleeper cells which are better
> terminated through our intelligence services
> infiltrating and co-opting their operations. Tools
> like "The Patriot Act" which I know your're a big
> fan of are critical to our success in this area.
>
> And even if we do..there will
> > be son and grandson of Al Qaeda unless we learn
> > this isn't a battle for territory..
>
> I don't know anyone (anyone with their head out of
> their ass anyway) that looks at our efforts in the
> middle east as a battle for territory.
>
>
> that we need to
> > get out of the Islamic world....defend Israel
> > within the U.N. chartered borders...
>
> We need to keep Israel armed to the hilt and
> especially support any preemptive strike on Iran
> which at this point is a certainty.
>
>
> stop defending
> > Islamic distators like those in Suadi
> > Arabia...Egypt...
>
> Develop our own crude oil supply and we could
> tell, (Get this shit) King of Saudi Arabia,
> Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz Bin Abdulrahman Bin Faisal
> Bin Turki Bin Abdullah Bin Muhammad Bin Saud, (Yes
> that is his real fucking name) to collectively
> kiss our red white and blue asses.
>
>
> and respect our differences with
> > the Islamic world.
>
> You know what Vince? I'm tired of being the one
> that has to be all understanding and shit. It's
> about high fucking time these Islamic
> fundamentalist start understanding me and my
> culture. At least we don't teach our kids that
> women were spawned from Satan.


I personally think Islamic terrorists understand us very well. We will send our children to their deaths...we will pollute our environment all for the sake of cheap energy. While we may not teach those particular aspects of hate...we do a pretty good job demomizing people...just read the typical comment on here regarding undocumented workers.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
At least we don't teach our kids that women were spawned from Satan.


Spawned from? Perhaps not. Pawn of? well....?

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> At least we don't teach our kids that women were
> spawned from Satan.
>
>
> Spawned from? Perhaps not. Pawn of? well....?
>


AAHHH!! point taken. Good shot there Nads!

I guess it's just those pesky little habits and traditions the Islamic Extremists keep holding on to like say, honor killings, that has me a little bit annoyed more than anything.