Republicans leaving big oil of the hook! WTF????????????

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201005131521dowjonesdjonline000579&title=senate-republicans-block-bid-to-raise-oil-spill-damages-limit

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- An effort by a few Senate Democrats to raise the cap on damage claims that BP Plc (BP) must pay for a a Gulf of Mexico oil spill was blocked on Thursday after Republicans said the plan wouldn't work.

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R, Alaska) led the charge against the measure, aimed at raising to $10 billion the limit on damage claims. The current limit, of $75 million, has been widely criticized by lawmakers as too low. Republicans blocked efforts to proceed, saying independent offshore oil developers would not be able to stay in business under the legislation because small companies wouldn't be able to self-insure against claims.

"The only companies that are going to be able to self-insure against this level of strict liability are the national oil companies, the super majors," Murkowski said. She said that would create a "monopoly" on offshore drilling among giant companies such as BP. "We need to ensure that BP as the responsible party pays."

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201005131521dowjonesdjonline000579&title=senate-republicans-block-bid-to-raise-oil-spill-damages-limit#ixzz0o9W62Lrh

Vince, shut the fuck up.

In layman terms... Republicans are in bed with big oil companies and they don't want to make BP pay for the clean up. Republicans would rather spend US tax dollars on the clean up. Here was go again with their Fascist bullshit.

What a surprise.

The person who voted against moving this version forward - at this time - is the person that originally introduced amendments dealing with the issue.

Sens. Murkowski and Begich Introduce Legislation to Raise Oil Spill Liability Fund to $10 billion
http://murkowski.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=af596b98-9561-4612-9493-6884230392c5&ContentType_id=b94acc28-404a-4fc6-b143-a9e15bf92da4&Group_id=c01df158-d935-4d7a-895d-f694ddf41624

The difference was, she was proposing to change the law to increase the Oil Spill Liability fund to cover potential disasters by increasing the per barrel fee on Oil companies to raise the funding. This way, spreading the costs out to all the various companies. This new bill was attempting to raise the limit to $10B to ALL oil oil companies - the problem being that a small oil company would no longer want to compete in the market. I think we can all agree that we need the small companies in the "game" as they are usually the ones coming up with innovations in cost reductions.

Democrats' effort to increase oil spill liability stalls
Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski objects to immediately taking up a measure that would have raised companies' liability caps to $10 billion from $75 million.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/14/nation/la-na-oil-spill-new-20100514
She also called for raising the liability limits on the companies - just not making it so any one company would be liable for $10B.

Yes, the oil companies should pay, but let's not get hung on a short-sighted bill that will instill the oil giants in their positions and allow for no other competition.

http://murkowski.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=OilSpillResponse

Quote

Murkowski specifically singled out the move to beef-up the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund, increase available funding for the U.S. Coast Guard and enhance research and study of the use of chemical dispersants as smart, targeted responses to the situation in the Gulf.

"I'm pleased to see swift action to beef up the federal response to the oil spill threatening the Gulf coast," Murkowski said. "While I'm still reviewing the full proposal, many of the measures strike me as sensible and timely."

The administration's call to increase the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund per barrel fee from 8 cents to 9 cents matches S. 3309, Senator Murkowski and Begich's bill, which they introduced last week. S. 3309 would also increase the fund to $10 billion. The 12.5 percent increase in the per-barrel fee would raise up to $612 million annually.

The Murkowski-Begich bill would also remove the "sunset provisions" in the current law to ensure the fund is always available to those impacted by catastrophic oil spills. Currently, the liability fund is set to expire in 2017, and contains approximately $1.6 billion. The liability trust fund was established by Congress in 1986, but not activated until after the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill. In 2005, Murkowski proposed raising the per-barrel fee from 5 cents to 8 cents.

"The liability fund provides a critical, industry-funded source of compensation that's immediately available to address spill-related impacts," Murkowski said. "We must make sure the fund has enough money to respond in times of crisis."

Murkowski also called sensible and responsible the administration's plan to raise the statutory expenditure limitation for the liability fund from $1 billion to $1.5 billion and the cap on natural resource damage assessments and claims from $500 million to $750 million.

"We may need to further increase the liability caps under the fund, but it's important to make sure we don't increase them to the point where we simply make financing impossible for the majority of offshore operators," Murkowski said.
...

MSM at their best though, trying to paint the picture they want via stupid soundbites.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2010 09:02AM by Registered Voter.

From the American Petroleum Institute website:


Cathy Landry | 202.682.8122 | landryc@api.org

WASHINGTON, May 13, 2010 — Congressional action to raise the limit on the oil spill liability trust fund by more than 10,000 percent could threaten the economic viability of all Gulf of Mexico operations, according to a statement by American Petroleum Institute President and CEO Jack Gerard:

“Precipitous changes to the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund could undermine our nation’s economic and energy security by making oil and natural gas operations in the Gulf of Mexico uninsurable by all but the largest companies.

“Initial economic analysis shows raising the liability cap to $10 billion per incident would limit Gulf operations to only the largest companies, forcing mid-size and smaller firms who cannot self-insure from the market. Insurance industry equity is insufficient to provide such coverage, but even if insurance were available, the hypothetical premium increases could raise the total unit costs of exploration and production in the Gulf of Mexico by 25 percent, making many fields uneconomical to produce, which would threaten our nation’s energy security, reduce government revenues and cost thousands of American jobs.

“Existing law holds companies accountable for all the costs associated with cleaning up oil spills and up to $75 million in economic damages, though even that liability limit does not apply in instances of gross negligence, willful misconduct, or violation of applicable federal regulations. Injured parties can also pursue damages in state court, which are not limited by the federal liability cap.

“Any necessary changes in the trust fund should be determined after there is a clear sense of the resource needs arising from this incident and should be thoughtfully considered with an opportunity for all stakeholders to be heard.

“Congress should endeavor to preserve the trust fund’s viability without undermining the oil and natural gas industry’s ability to insure capital investments. Gulf of Mexico oil production accounts for 30 percent of U.S. crude oil production and represents a critical component of U.S. energy resources necessary to meet future demand.”

http://www.api.org/Newsroom/protect-spill-trust.cfm

I am pretty sure they (the Oil Companies) are not happy with either solution, but the one proposed by Senator Murkowski makes a lot more sense then just raising the cap on Oil company liability from $75 to $10B. Especially when the law already covers issues of gross negligence and the like. And while BP is bitching and moaning at responsibility on this, they would be cutting their own throat if they didn't do everything within their power to deal with the costs. I will bet that before this is said and done they will have spent well more than $10B on this incident.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2010 09:11AM by Registered Voter.

Lets see...the API..is that the industry representative that has enough money to buy what seems like evry commercial spot on CNN..MSNBC...and a dozen other channels? Imagine that...holding an industry totally accountable might undermine that industry! Seems to me they are in a unsupportable industry..they are dependent on the federal govt limiting their liability..they are a socialistic industry. Why arent the teabaggers outraged?

And RV..you are as fucked up as usual...unfortuantely the 2 party politics in the U.S. today is not a choice between black and white..it is a choice between shades of gray. And the republicn gray is in the back pocket of the oil industry..they will lie and steal for the oil industry...in general, democrats dont...democrats while beholding to the money thrown at them by the oil industry..are not their spokespersons (in general).

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets see...the API..is that the industry
> representative that has enough money to buy what
> seems like evry commercial spot on
> CNN..MSNBC...and a dozen other channels? Imagine
> that...holding an industry totally accountable
> might undermine that industry! Seems to me they
> are in a unsupportable industry..they are
> dependent on the federal govt limiting their
> liability..they are a socialistic industry. Why
> arent the teabaggers outraged?
>
> And RV..you are as fucked up as
> usual...unfortuantely the 2 party politics in the
> U.S. today is not a choice between black and
> white..it is a choice between shades of gray. And
> the republicn gray is in the back pocket of the
> oil industry..they will lie and steal for the oil
> industry...in general, democrats dont...democrats
> while beholding to the money thrown at them by the
> oil industry..are not their spokespersons (in
> general).


As usual, your failure to perform basic reading comprehension - or even possessing more than a single brain cell - has made itself apparent in your usual "oh, whatever you say is wrong RV" response.

Fuck off Vince. Go back to your little rock under the shitpile in your yard and dream of a day when you might get lucky and a mutation in your single brain cell will allow it to split and double your potential intelligence.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

We all know what this about. Republicans can sling all the spin they want.

Americans aren't falling for Republican BS any more. It's 2010 and we have the internet now to see all the lies.

Plain and simple. It's about more profits for big oil and Republicans protecting them for political kick backs.

Lopter59 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We all know what this about. Republicans can
> sling all the spin they want.
>
> Americans aren't falling for Republican BS any
> more. It's 2010 and we have the internet now to
> see all the lies.
>
> Plain and simple. It's about more profits for big
> oil and Republicans protecting them for political
> kick backs.


Nice talking points there lopter. Nice of you to throw in (non)factual rhetoric when the MSM failings coalesce in front of you. The only ones spinning here are those on the left and the MSM.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

It's OK, guys. BP's got this. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100517/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill

They're siphoning off 1/5th of what's gushing out into the ocean A DAY. So, all they have to do is wait until it's done gushing then siphon it all off, which, by my calculations-



"Is fucking impossible, man!"

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2010 01:18PM by MrMephisto.

OtherSideoftheStory... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> “Precipitous changes to the Oil Spill Liability
> Trust Fund could undermine our nation’s economic
> and energy security by making oil and natural gas
> operations in the Gulf of Mexico uninsurable by
> all but the largest companies.
>


Yeah. Like Uncle Ted's Drilling Platform won't be able to work in the Gulf anymore.

What a crock of shit. Like anyone other than the largest oil companies have the resources to even drill a mile beneath the ocean or put a platform out there in the first place. These people are so full of shit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah. Like Uncle Ted's Drilling Platform won't be
> able to work in the Gulf anymore.
>
> What a crock of shit. Like anyone other than the
> largest oil companies have the resources to even
> drill a mile beneath the ocean or put a platform
> out there in the first place. These people are so
> full of shit.


Didn't you see Armageddon?

Johnny Walker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Didn't you see Armageddon?

Time to drop this mother fucker with a detonator into the Gulf....



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

From Politico:

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash


By: Erika Lovley
May 5, 2010 05:05 AM EDT

While the BP oil geyser pumps millions of gallons of petroleum into the Gulf of Mexico, President Barack Obama and members of Congress may have to answer for the millions in campaign contributions they’ve taken from the oil and gas giant over the years.

BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a mix of employees and the company’s political action committees — $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals.

On top of that, the oil giant has spent millions each year on lobbying — including $15.9 million last year alone — as it has tried to influence energy policy.

During his time in the Senate and while running for president, Obama received a total of $77,051 from the oil giant and is the top recipient of BP PAC and individual money over the past 20 years, according to financial disclosure records.

An Obama spokesman rejected the notion that the president took big oil money.
“President Obama didn’t accept a dime from corporate PACs or federal lobbyists during his presidential campaign,” spokesman Ben LaBolt said. “He raised $750 million from nearly four million Americans. And since he became president, he rolled back tax breaks and giveaways for the oil and gas industry, spearheaded a G20 agreement to phase out fossil fuel subsidies, and made the largest investment in American history in clean energy incentives.”

In Congress, Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.), who last week cautioned that the incident should “not be used inappropriately” to halt Obama’s push for expansion of offshore drilling, has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of BP’s largesse. Her comments created some blowback, with critics complaining that she is too blasé about the impact of the disaster, even though she was among the first lawmakers to call for a federal investigation into the spill.

As the top congressional recipient in the last cycle and one of the top BP cash recipients of the past two decades, Landrieu banked almost $17,000 from the oil giant in 2008 alone and has lined her war chest with more than $28,000 in BP cash overall.

“Campaign contributions, from energy companies or from environmental groups, have absolutely no impact on Sen. Landrieu’s policy agenda or her response to this unprecedented disaster in the Gulf,” said Landrieu spokesman Aaron Saunders. “The senator is proud of the broad coalition she’s built since her first day in the Senate to address the energy and environmental challenges in Louisiana and in the nation. This disaster only makes the effort to promote and save Louisiana’s coast all that more important.”

Several BP executives have given directly to Landrieu’s campaign, including current and previous U.S. operation Presidents Lamar McKay and Robert Malone. Other donors include Margaret Hudson, BP’s America vice president, and Benjamin Cannon, federal affairs director for the U.S. branch. Donations ranged from $1,000 to $2,300 during the past campaign cycle.

Environmentalists complain that Landrieu has played down the impact of oil spills.

“I mean, just the gallons are so minuscule compared to the benefits of U.S. strength and security, the benefits of job creation and energy security,” Landrieu said at a hearing last month on offshore drilling. “So while there are risks associated with everything, I think you understand that they are quite, quite minimal.”

“They own Mary Landrieu and the rest of the Louisiana delegation,” said Greenpeace Research Director Kert Davies. “They have more money, disposable income and a fleet of dispensable lobbyists to beat the band.”

Other politicians with ties to coastal states or states with BP refineries have also reaped benefits from the fourth largest company in the world.

The top congressional recipients of BP campaign cash include Republican Rep. Don Young of the oil-intensive Alaska delegation, who has received almost as much as Obama, raking in $73,300 during his congressional tenure. Also on the list is Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio), whose state has a BP refinery in Toledo and who has raked in $41,400. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has received $44,899.

“Make no mistake: BP ranks among the most powerful corporate forces in U.S. politics,” said Dave Levinthal, spokesman for the Center for Responsive Politics. “It donates hundreds of thousands of dollars every election cycle through its employees and political action committee and is routinely a seven- or eight-figure federal lobbying powerhouse each year.”

In 2008 alone, BP gave $37,000 to members of the House Energy Committee and $106,501 to members of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, which deals with security issues facing the nation’s oil supply.

BP has also evolved in its corporate giving over the past decade, shifting more money to Democrats. In 2000, the company gave almost 39 percent more to Republicans than to Democrats. But by 2008, Democrats had nearly pulled even with Republicans on BP donations.

Moreover, the company has nearly tripled the amount of money it has spent on lobbying, from about $5.7 million in 1999 to $15.9 million last year, according to lobbying disclosures.

BP has bulked up its K Street team by signing some of the biggest firms in Washington, several of which employ former Hill staffers with deep-seated ties to Louisiana and the Gulf of Mexico coast.

BP representation within lobby shop Alpine Group alone includes lobbyist Bob Brooks, who served as chief of staff to former Rep. Jim McCrery (R-La.), and lobbyist Rebecca Hawes, a longtime counsel for former Sen. John Breaux (D-La.). Jason Schendle worked for Landrieu for nine years, according to lobbying disclosures.

Former Rep. Jim Turner, now a lobbyist for BP with Arnold & Porter, formerly represented the 2nd District of Texas, which includes a large piece of Gulf shoreline. And at the Podesta Group, BP lobbyist David Marin was formerly the lead Hill staffer for Congress’s Select Committee to Investigate the Preparation for and Response to Hurricane Katrina.

“First, they are exceedingly competent. Second, they are [Democratic-centric]. I know the first will help enormously in the next few weeks. I am not so sure about the second,” said Republican energy lobbyist Mike McKen­na of MWR Strategies, who predicted that Landrieu would quite likely get “very wide latitude” on the oil issue. “That may not be the case with BP, whose record is a bit more spotty.”

^Enough of the slanted figures.

We all know that Republican candidates don't get direct campaign contributions from big oil. Big oil does Republican payoffs to "front companies" like Halliburton or Blackwater. That's the oldest trick in the book.

You have to like the way BP says they will take full responsibility and then the next day BP is on Capital Hill saying they weren't to blame.

Lopter78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^Enough of the slanted figures.
>
> We all know that Republican candidates don't get
> direct campaign contributions from big oil. Big
> oil does Republican payoffs to "front companies"
> like Halliburton or Blackwater. That's the oldest
> trick in the book.
>
> You have to like the way BP says they will take
> full responsibility and then the next day BP is on
> Capital Hill saying they weren't to blame.

If they face potential lawsuits, then testifying in front of Congress sort of sets them up. It is no wonder they were all prevaricating on who was responsible. Let the courts sort it out - Congress is as culpable in this mess as they are and should be named as a co-defendant in any civil proceeding if it was possible.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > You have to like the way BP says they will take
> > full responsibility and then the next day BP is
> on
> > Capital Hill saying they weren't to blame.
>
> If they face potential lawsuits, then testifying
> in front of Congress sort of sets them up. It is
> no wonder they were all prevaricating on who was
> responsible. Let the courts sort it out - Congress
> is as culpable in this mess as they are and should
> be named as a co-defendant in any civil proceeding
> if it was possible.

It sends a clear signal that BP is full of shit about paying for full damages!

sure, why not? The levees failed on the government's watch, nearly destroying a major American city five years ago, but fuck 'em. We're not paying to rebuild our own city. Not when it's full of poor black people. Now, a giant oil spill. But no, we're not going to make BP and Halliburton pay. This doesn't surprise me. At least our government is consistent. If you're poor, fuck you. If you're rich, come get richer. That's what it comes down to.

Fuck this shit. I want socialism. NOW.

Mr. Misery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuck this shit. I want socialism. NOW.


Move to France.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

You know if BP had to pay for all of the clean up they'd of had that pipe sealed off or buried with in a week.

BP is more concerned about getting an operating well going again, they could care less about the oil in the gulf.

Lopter48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know if BP had to pay for all of the clean up
> they'd of had that pipe sealed off or buried with
> in a week.
>
> BP is more concerned about getting an operating
> well going again, they could care less about the
> oil in the gulf.

Here's the start of the fallout:
Interior Department's Top Oil and Gas Official Quits in Wake of Gulf Oil Spill
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/17/interior-departments-oil-gas-official-quits-wake-gulf-oil-spill/

Dr. Chris Oynes
http://www.gulfbase.org/person/view.php?uid=coynes

Quote

...
Dr. Oynes received a Presidential Award as a Meritorious Executive in the Senior Executive Service of the Federal Government in 1998.
...

But in any case, this is how the Russians dealt with their massive oil leaks.
Nuke that slick
http://trueslant.com/juliaioffe/2010/05/04/nuke-that-slick/

Quote

...
Komsomoloskaya Pravda, the best-selling Russian daily, reports that in Soviet times such leaks were plugged with controlled nuclear blasts underground. The idea is simple, KP writes: “the underground explosion moves the rock, presses on it, and, in essence, squeezes the well’s channel.”

Yes! It’s so simple, in fact, that the Soviet Union, a major oil exporter, used this method five times to deal with petrocalamities. The first happened in Uzbekistan, on September 30, 1966 with a blast 1.5 times the strength of the Hiroshima bomb and at a depth of 1.5 kilometers. KP also notes that subterranean nuclear blasts were used as much as 169 times in the Soviet Union to accomplish fairly mundane tasks like creating underground storage spaces for gas or building canals.

These kinds of surgical strikes to shut off underground leaks, however, were carried out only five times, with the last one occuring in 1979. And there was only one misfire, near Kharkov, Ukraine, where a nuclear blast was unable to stanch a gas leak.

Happily, with a track record like that, “the chances of failure in the Gulf of Mexico are 20%,” KP writes. “The Americans could certainly risk it.”

Sure - with Iran these days, a controlled nuclear blast in the Gulf is all we need to do right now.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Is Lopter a GOP plant to make Dems look EXTREMELY stupid? There is no way in hell anyone can be as delusional and moronic as this guy. He has got to be a plant. No other explanation.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince, shut the fuck up.




==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Of course Haliburton had to have a hand in this mess. Now the oil is predicted to round the tip of Florida. What a complete mess. It will take years to get all the oil cleaned up.

Anybody want to buy some beach front property cheap???

GOP Plant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is Lopter a GOP plant to make Dems look EXTREMELY
> stupid? There is no way in hell anyone can be as
> delusional and moronic as this guy. He has got to
> be a plant. No other explanation.

you clearly havent read vince's posts.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

The solution proposed clearly has the typical critics of "big oil" creating "bigger big oil" with their solution. It is as laughable as Vince saying to combat firearm accidents we need to mandate higher-caliber handguns. Maybe he will actually say that next, who knows? Typical demokrat klaptrap.

Obama and the demokrats- bigger big oil, more offshore drilling, destroy all gulf coast jobs, AND create a carbon tax on top of all of this new fossil fuel stuff they are creating. Oh, and quadruple the deficit they inherited and somehow blame Bush for that too.

------------------------------------

twitter @EyeAmU

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GOP Plant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is Lopter a GOP plant to make Dems look
> EXTREMELY
> > stupid? There is no way in hell anyone can be
> as
> > delusional and moronic as this guy. He has got
> to
> > be a plant. No other explanation.
>
> you clearly havent read vince's posts.

I have, but the thing with Vince is that EVERYONE, even Democrats, know he is a complete and total moron. He is so over the top that it isn't even worth responding to. With Lopter, though, he pretends to know what he is talking about, but when you actually look into his facts, he is even more full of sh*t than Vince. I say this as a Democrat. If he is for real, I implore him to stop posting. I feel dumber after reading his posts. There are people on this board that make sense and can articulate an argument against the stupidity of the GOP. Lopter is not one of them. I honestly think he is a GOP plant to make Democrats look retarded. This is such a Rovian thing to do.

GOP Plant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have, but the thing with Vince is that EVERYONE,
> even Democrats, know he is a complete and total
> moron. He is so over the top that it isn't even
> worth responding to. With Lopter, though, he
> pretends to know what he is talking about, but
> when you actually look into his facts, he is even
> more full of sh*t than Vince. I say this as a
> Democrat. If he is for real, I implore him to
> stop posting. I feel dumber after reading his
> posts. There are people on this board that make
> sense and can articulate an argument against the
> stupidity of the GOP. Lopter is not one of them.
> I honestly think he is a GOP plant to make
> Democrats look retarded. This is such a Rovian
> thing to do.

Another crazy Republican idea.

Well, the most open and transparent administration of all time has shown yet again, how it manages to fulfill the expectations of their rhetoric.

But hey, that executives from the oil companies better show up or they will be subpoenaed to show up.

Offshore drilling agency refuses to send witness to Senate oil spill hearing
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/98209-offshore-drilling-agency-refuses-witness-for-senate-oil-spill-hearing

Quote

The federal agency that regulates offshore oil drilling declined to send a witness to the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee’s hearing Monday on the federal response to the massive Gulf of Mexico oil spill, Committee Chairman Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) said.

The committee had requested the appearance of a top official from the Interior Department’s Minerals Management Service. Lieberman’s panel is probing the adequacy of BP’s federally approved oil drilling and spill response plans.

“I regret that the MMS leadership has chosen not to appear before our committee today because they really need to be asked the same questions I am going to ask Homeland Security, the Coast Guard and BP,” Lieberman said Monday afternoon as the hearing commenced.

...

Multiple Capitol Hill and Obama administration probes of the Deepwater Horizon accident are underway. Lieberman emphasized that his committee’s goal is not to look at the specifics of why the rig exploded or why the well cut-off device failed. Instead, he said, the panel is probing the federal and industry preparation for such accidents, and the response to the blowout and subsequent spill.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2010 01:16AM by Registered Voter.

The Department Minerals Management Service is a joke. Bush loaded that department with ex-oil employees. They actually ask the oil companies for standards.

I don't know that anybody had even heard of the department before the BP oil disaster. They were certainly hidden during all the mine collapses until Obama administration demanded answers on WV mine safety.

Lopter40 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GOP Plant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I have, but the thing with Vince is that
> EVERYONE,
> > even Democrats, know he is a complete and total
> > moron. He is so over the top that it isn't
> even
> > worth responding to. With Lopter, though, he
> > pretends to know what he is talking about, but
> > when you actually look into his facts, he is
> even
> > more full of sh*t than Vince. I say this as a
> > Democrat. If he is for real, I implore him to
> > stop posting. I feel dumber after reading his
> > posts. There are people on this board that make
> > sense and can articulate an argument against
> the
> > stupidity of the GOP. Lopter is not one of
> them.
> > I honestly think he is a GOP plant to make
> > Democrats look retarded. This is such a Rovian
> > thing to do.
>
> Another crazy Republican idea.

Actually, I am a Democrat and embarrassed for you.

GOP Plant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually, I am a Democrat and embarrassed for you.


GOP Plant,

You have the same problem the Republican party has--->An identity crisis.

Lopter36 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GOP Plant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Actually, I am a Democrat and embarrassed for
> you.
>
>
> GOP Plant,
>
> You have the same problem the Republican party
> has--->An identity crisis.

I have no identity crisis whatsoever. I have been an active and participatory Democrat for over 20 years. What I do have is a lack of faith in the intelligence of my fellow Democrats when I see someone like you stepping up to the plate as a spokesman. If you seriously want to help Democrats, please stay silent.

GOP Plant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lopter36 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GOP Plant Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Actually, I am a Democrat and embarrassed for
> > you.
> >
> >
> > GOP Plant,
> >
> > You have the same problem the Republican party
> > has--->An identity crisis.
>
> I have no identity crisis whatsoever. I have been
> an active and participatory Democrat for over 20
> years. What I do have is a lack of faith in the
> intelligence of my fellow Democrats when I see
> someone like you stepping up to the plate as a
> spokesman. If you seriously want to help
> Democrats, please stay silent.

Dream on you GOP Plant. Your smoke and mirror Republican BS is not working.

Lopter58 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GOP Plant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lopter36 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > GOP Plant Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > Actually, I am a Democrat and embarrassed
> for
> > > you.
> > >
> > >
> > > GOP Plant,
> > >
> > > You have the same problem the Republican
> party
> > > has--->An identity crisis.
> >
> > I have no identity crisis whatsoever. I have
> been
> > an active and participatory Democrat for over
> 20
> > years. What I do have is a lack of faith in
> the
> > intelligence of my fellow Democrats when I see
> > someone like you stepping up to the plate as a
> > spokesman. If you seriously want to help
> > Democrats, please stay silent.
>
> Dream on you GOP Plant. Your smoke and mirror
> Republican BS is not working.

I feel bad for you. I really do. I guess it goes to show we have as many morons as the GOP. I am still not convinced though that you are not really a Republican out to make Democrats look stupid.

What is your point GOP Plant?

Lopter48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know if BP had to pay for all of the clean up
> they'd of had that pipe sealed off or buried with
> in a week.
>
> BP is more concerned about getting an operating
> well going again, they could care less about the
> oil in the gulf.

True, dat. And since Obama is in their back pocket from all dat money he took, BP doesn't have much to worry about.

Ester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is your point GOP Plant?

I thought it was pretty clear. My point is that Lopter(insert whatever # here) is really a Republican masquerading as a Democrat to make all Democrats look stupid. It really is quite Rovian.

Well, Ted Turner has turned a new corner in his life - he now attributes disasters to God.

Ted Turner: Is God speaking in Gulf Coast spill?
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/17/ted-turner-wondering-if-god-is-speaking-in-gulf-coast-spill/

Quote

...
“Could be,” God’s work, he told CNN’s Poppy Harlow. “He’s sending us a message.”

Turner sat down with Harlow recently to discuss the energy policy in the United States. The full interview is posted on CNN Money.

“I’m not a real religious person, but I’m somewhat religious. And I’m just wondering if God is telling us he doesn’t want us to drill offshore,” he said. “And right before that we had that coal mine disaster in West Virginia where we lost 29 miners,” as well as repeated mining disasters – “seems like there’s one over there every week” – in China.

“Maybe the Lord’s tired of having the mountains of West Virginia, the tops knocked off of them so they can get more coal. I think maybe we ought to just leave the coal in the ground and go with solar and wind power and geo-thermals where it’s applicable.”

Calling the United States “the biggest polluter and the biggest energy user in the world,” Turner said the country needs to take the lead in ridding itself of coal and oil dependence.

“It’s just as important, if not more important, than getting to the moon.”
...

Huh?

Maybe the guy needs to cut back on the Viagra and start looking into Alzheimer's medications. How does he think we are going to get to the Moon? By using helium balloons?

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Maybe the guy needs to cut back on the Viagra and
> start looking into Alzheimer's medications. How
> does he think we are going to get to the Moon? By
> using helium balloons?


His point is that developing alternative fuels need to be a higher priority.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

No - his point was he thought God was sending us a message. Not like there haven't been oil spills and mine collapses for years. Just now good old Ted is bringing religion into the discussion. Where is the outrage here by all the atheists?

And then he wants us to go to the Moon. Does he think God is behind that plan also?

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2010 04:39PM by Registered Voter.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No - his point was he thought God was sending us a
> message. Not like there haven't been oil spills
> and mine collapses for years. Just now good old
> Ted is bringing religion into the discussion.
> Where is the outrage here by all the atheists?
>
> And then he wants us to go to the Moon. Does he
> think God is behind that plan also?


Guys like you have thought Turner was a loon for years. Is he less loony now because he brings up God?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys like you have thought Turner was a loon for
> years. Is he less loony now because he brings up
> God?

Um no - it just proves he truly is a loon, and has gotten worse. Glad he is on the liberal side of the aisle, it can only do wonders for your image. Talk about a hypocrite - and then Jane Fonda has evidently found religion also. That has to make for some interesting conversations around the dinner table.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

The message is that the republican agenda for the last 40 years has been a complete and utter failure. The military build-up started by Reagan cant find the master mind of 9/11...and has us on the road of a 100 years of war...the energy policy of Ronald Raegan (or the lack of one) has us dependent foreign sources and on dangerous off shore drilling...the elimination of govt oversite of the banking industry...wall street...safety regulations..our food supply has come home to roost. Republicans have been as total disaster for this country.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

BP/Halliburton should pay all the cost. BP knew the risk of drilling and cut corners on the well head.

Lopter78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BP/Halliburton should pay all the cost. BP knew
> the risk of drilling and cut corners on the well
> head.

Good to see the latest democratic talking point has made its way to the board. Damn those government regulators and safety folks for not pointing that out to BP BEFORE they let them move ahead with drilling. The likelihood BP will pay almost all of the costs. The 1.6B in the oil spill fund will probably pay some of it also.

Interior secretary admits regulatory lapses and "a few bad apples" in oil oversight office
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/sns-ap-us-gulf-oil-spill,0,844395.story

Quote

...
Salazar, testifying before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, promised an overhaul of federal regulations and said blame for the BP spill rests with both industry and the government, particularly his agency's Minerals Management Service.

"We need to clean up that house," Salazar said of the service. While most of the agency's 1,700 employees are reliable and trustworthy, he said, there were "a few bad apples."
...

Seems like we should have these folks assume liability also.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2010 07:35PM by Registered Voter.

I'm sure the Republicans are looking at what government funds can possibly be deleted to keep BP from paying full costs.

SO RV, let me get this straight. You DO NOT believe BP should pay for the clean up costs?

Lopter58 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure the Republicans are looking at what
> government funds can possibly be deleted to keep
> BP from paying full costs.
>
> SO RV, let me get this straight. You DO NOT
> believe BP should pay for the clean up costs?

Read much lopter? I am guessing that would be a NO.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>The likelihood BP will pay almost all of the costs. The 1.6B in the oil spill
> fund will probably pay some of it also.
>

BP, Halliburton, and TransOcean are all on the hook for this. It will be up to the courts as to who ultimately is responsible for paying most of it. The endless lawsuits being filed by liberal trial lawyers will potentially lock all of the money up for years. The Federal government should be held responsible to the American people, in as much as there was a severe failure of LEADERSHIP in ensuring folks were doing their jobs. That rolls all the way to the top (just as in 9/11 and Katrina folks want to hold Bush responsible) - and more than just some guy "retiring" is going to be required before that is satisfied. Should "we" pay for it? No - but ultimately, we will.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2010 08:14PM by Registered Voter.

I have to agree. The Department of Minerals is a farce, clearly in bed with big oil. Clear house and start over with that Department.

Lopter67 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to agree. The Department of Minerals is a
> farce, clearly in bed with big oil. Clear house
> and start over with that Department.


And which political party is primarily responsible for espousing such policies? Repulikans..that's who. We all know that if they could..dems wouldve have never giiven up the inspector/enforcer role of government...that thought was esposed by Reagan and republikans have us all convinced the govt "is the problem". Hardly!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lopter67 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have to agree. The Department of Minerals is
> a
> > farce, clearly in bed with big oil. Clear
> house
> > and start over with that Department.
>
>
> And which political party is primarily responsible
> for espousing such policies? Repulikans..that's
> who. We all know that if they could..dems wouldve
> have never giiven up the inspector/enforcer role
> of government...that thought was esposed by Reagan
> and republikans have us all convinced the govt "is
> the problem". Hardly!

Vince, democrats now control the White House and congress so why arent they doing something? Seems easy enough to fix when you hold all the cards. Perhaps your beef is with them and not some deceased former president.

It certainly is comical that Republicans are now blaming the government for NOT REGULATING ENOUGH. As usual it's the Republican smoke and mirrors to cover big corporations asses. Republican voters are mere puppets.

Lopter59 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It certainly is comical that Republicans are now
> blaming the government for NOT REGULATING ENOUGH.
> As usual it's the Republican smoke and mirrors to
> cover big corporations asses. Republican voters
> are mere puppets.

Lopter, check your sources - the Democrats are beating up the regulators at the moment. They are the ones running the hearings and dragging these candy asses in and they are the ones berating them for not doing their jobs. In addition to the usual Big Oil bashing. There is fault to go all around on this one - not the least of which is Obama having been in office for over a year and still having the problems in his administration. If Bush can be held accountable 9 months in for not anticipating a terror attack (which is much more random and requires good intel), then I don't see how Obama is going to run away from not getting his regulators in order to deal with an obvious mess.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Lopter67 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to agree. The Department of Minerals is a
> farce, clearly in bed with big oil. Clear house
> and start over with that Department.

The Department of Minerals? Which Secretary heads that Department? This is more proof that you are a Republican masquerading as a Democrat to make us look stupid. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is that stupid to believe there is a Department of Minerals. Who is the Secretary of Minerals. Your gig is up, give it up and get back to your tea party, teabagger.

help me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lopter67 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I have to agree. The Department of Minerals
> is
> > a
> > > farce, clearly in bed with big oil. Clear
> > house
> > > and start over with that Department.
> >
> >
> > And which political party is primarily
> responsible
> > for espousing such policies?
> Repulikans..that's
> > who. We all know that if they could..dems
> wouldve
> > have never giiven up the inspector/enforcer
> role
> > of government...that thought was esposed by
> Reagan
> > and republikans have us all convinced the govt
> "is
> > the problem". Hardly!
>
> Vince, democrats now control the White House and
> congress so why arent they doing something? Seems
> easy enough to fix when you hold all the cards.
> Perhaps your beef is with them and not some
> deceased former president.


Because it takes 60 votes in the Senate to stop a filibuster! The part of "hell no" is obstructionists bent on forcing their idealogical views onto the rest of America.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

I agree Vince it is hard to keep filibuster-proof majorities when your party fucks up SO BAD it loses TED KENNEDY's seat to a Republican. You know, the seat that you had 61 votes with. See, it is the REPUBLICAN'S fault.

The message of change... let US fix the country because BUSH was so bad. But when stuff goes wrong, we will go back YEARS to blame Bush and we are totally incapable of improving ANYTHING. And when our korrupt kolors show our FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT reaction will not be accepting responsibility but pointing to Republicans and say it is okay if we do anything wrong that any Republican in history may have done wrong. Change. Change for the WORSE.

------------------------------------

twitter @EyeAmU



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2010 02:58PM by conVince.

So this fucker is still leaking oil into the Gulf after a month???????????????????? WTF BP?????

Leaky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So this fucker is still leaking oil into the Gulf
> after a month???????????????????? WTF BP?????

most coherent and worthwhile post yet in this thread.

Yes, Leaky, I'm with you--"WTF BP?????" Nobody gets mad anymore when things like this happen...not really....they just get pissy and irritated when the inevitable, bullshit, us-VS-them, 'blame Bush', 'no, blame Obama', 'no--blame Clinton', 'my dad is bigger than your dad' rhetoric comes up.

Torches and pitchforks, people.
Where are the torches and MOTHERFUCKING pitchforks?!

Mr Misery...it is Republican policy to weaken every aspect of govt inspection responsibilities since Reagan was in office. This has affected our food...our investments...our shores. In addition Reagan set back energy conservation 30 years as a repudiation to the Carter years. The Republican party has been a disaster for this country...when will he hold them accountable?

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

I'm past the point of blame. Fix the fucking leak!

Leaky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm past the point of blame. Fix the fucking
> leak!


I agree..that is priority number 1.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

I R in yer Congrezz blockin yer billz

The great BP is now trying to stop camera crews from filming the beach sites. God BP is pissing me off! No fucking way they are going to clean all this shit up. Fucking BP!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edward-f-blizzard/bp-attempts-to-block-medi_b_583355.html

As concerns about the growing devastation the BP oil spill has inflicted on Gulf Cost communities increase, reports have surfaced that BP is blocking members of the press from filming the extent of the damage. A CBS news crew attempted to film a beach in South Pass, Louisiana, obscured by a thick coat of oil, and was barred from doing so by BP contractors and two coast guard officers aboard a boat who threatened to arrest the film crew. When asked why filming along the beach was not permitted they were told, "This is BP's rules, it's not ours."

Leaky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm past the point of blame. Fix the fucking
> leak!

YES! YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO GETS IT, LEAKY!! FIX THE MOTHERFUCKING LEAK!!! I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WHO DID WHAT AND WHY THIS GUY IS BAD AND THAT ONE IS GOOD....JUST FIX THE MOTHERSUCKING, COCKFUCKING, SON-OF-A-CUNT LEAK!!!

FIX IT!!!!

MOTHERFUCKER!!!! GET MAD, PEOPLE!! GET FUCKING MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!!! NOW!!!!!!! GET FURIOUS!!!! GET THE MOTHERFUCKING TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!!! GET PISSED!!!! WHERE IS THE ANGER!!?? WHY ARE YOU NOT ANGRIER?!?

GET MAD NOW!
Attachments:

we need a nation of Howard Beales. We should all be this angry....EVERY. GOD. DAMN. DAY. MOTHERFUCKER!!! WE NEED TO HULK OUT AS A FUCKING NATION!!! GET FUCKING PISSED!!

If your bored you can watch the leak live online.


Live HQ Leak Videoe

/
Attachments:

Republicans, they really know what's good for America

Lopter59 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Republicans, they really know what's good for
> America


Whatever, you have been exposed as a Republican looking to make the Democrats look bad. I agree with GOP Plant.

As he said, your gig is up and nobody is paying attention to you. Go drink some tea or teabag.

This spill will not stop or slow drilling. You can keep crying that river, and neither Democrats or Republicans will stop it. They can't. And until they get these new nuclear plants online you won't see much in the way of relief, and even then, it will only be for home/commercial energy, not transportation. Hopefully as more jurisdictions change their public transportation (and many commercial truckers) over to NG or some form of hybrid, you will see some relief - but we still import so much oil now, that all we will see is a decrease in our demand, not world demand - and the prices will continue to rise.

So - to spite your face you will cut your nose off, and let the likes of Russia and Cuba dictate the drilling that goes on in the Gulf of Mexico. And they will sell OUR oil to us. And they are much less concerned on the safety at the well head then the more environmentally concerned US. So seriously, you all need to get your priorities straight - NOTHING will stop oil drilling in the coastal waters - they can't afford to stop. And neither can the US if it values it's national security. So get over yourselves you bunch of self-righteous cry-babies. Let us know when you turn in your LCD and Plasma TVs, and all your SUVs and Xboxes, etc. Since you are as much a part of the problem as the rest of us. When you move to your mountain retreat, and use self-sustaining solar or a water wheel or something to generate your power, and show us all how full of your own BS you are - then please, come back here and whine some more about how we shouldn't drill anymore. Because seriously, if you believe we can get by without drilling for oil, then you must be living in some drug induced hallucination that makes you believe you aren't using the same energy you are bitching about.

BP will eventually clean up the spill - but this is what happens when you drill at these depths - no one has really got any clue on what happens when the unthinkable happens. Unless you follow the Russian rule of thumb, and light off a nuke.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2010 11:46PM by Registered Voter.

I do not think a country based on the profit motive..whose leaders defy and flaunt their abhorance to obeying governemnt regulaion is capable of safely operating oil wells and nuclear plants. Leave it to countries who do...France..Venezuelia..Canada...Saudi Arabia..Iran.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not think a country based on the profit
> motive..whose leaders defy and flaunt their
> abhorance to obeying governemnt regulaion is
> capable of safely operating oil wells and nuclear
> plants. Leave it to countries who
> do...France..Venezuelia..Canada...Saudi
> Arabia..Iran.

blah blah blah - yes, he is a loon - blah blah blah

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not think a country based on the profit
> motive..whose leaders defy and flaunt their
> abhorance to obeying governemnt regulaion is
> capable of safely operating oil wells and nuclear
> plants. Leave it to countries who
> do...France..Venezuelia..Canada...Saudi
> Arabia..Iran.

Greed is what always brings a government to its knees.

Lopter50 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I do not think a country based on the profit
> > motive..whose leaders defy and flaunt their
> > abhorance to obeying governemnt regulaion is
> > capable of safely operating oil wells and
> nuclear
> > plants. Leave it to countries who
> > do...France..Venezuelia..Canada...Saudi
> > Arabia..Iran.
>
> Greed is what always brings a government to its
> knees.

Yes, Government greed in collecting taxes and spending money that isn't theirs to begin with.

Government thinks it can just tax and tax and tax, and eventually it brings the economy to its knees, thus breaking the system. That is when you get riots, and entire new governments - when they run out of money to pay folks because there is nowhere left to get it from. You can go back in history and see it over and over and over again. Can someone point out a country in modern times that failed due to a booming economy with high profits by corporations where the government was fiscally responsible?

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lopter50 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I do not think a country based on the profit
> > > motive..whose leaders defy and flaunt their
> > > abhorance to obeying governemnt regulaion is
> > > capable of safely operating oil wells and
> > nuclear
> > > plants. Leave it to countries who
> > > do...France..Venezuelia..Canada...Saudi
> > > Arabia..Iran.
> >
> > Greed is what always brings a government to its
> > knees.
>
> Yes, Government greed in collecting taxes and
> spending money that isn't theirs to begin with.
>
> Government thinks it can just tax and tax and tax,
> and eventually it brings the economy to its knees,
> thus breaking the system. That is when you get
> riots, and entire new governments - when they run
> out of money to pay folks because there is nowhere
> left to get it from. You can go back in history
> and see it over and over and over again. Can
> someone point out a country in modern times that
> failed due to a booming economy with high profits
> by corporations where the government was fiscally
> responsible?


Hey Mr Paranoia....we are the Government...every Government has the right to tax. Your question about a a booming economy..fiscally responsible govt is ridiculous. Basic 20th century economics tells you that a responsible government knows when to spend and knows when to save..aka tax. You can try and ignore the fact that 40 years of Republican economic practice drove is to the edge of a financial meltdown...but that dog dont hunt. During the Clinton Years we had adults in charge of the economy....the Bush Years were a reflection of the stupidity of Republican economic theory. We will shortly be at a point where adult leadership is going to have to cut spending and increase taxes...lets see where your dogmatic political party stands on that issue.

The Republican Party..the worse to happen to America in 100 years!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>typical Blame Bush blah blah blah

So, you have no answer to this question, just some baseless attack with nothing but your usual diatribe?

Quote

Can someone point out a country in modern times that failed due to a booming economy with high profits by corporations where the government was fiscally responsible?

Maybe you can try looking at the flip side V - and see how many countries that did fail were fiscally responsible. The Soviet Union collapsed due to unsustainable spending as I recall.

Here, someone of your own mind no doubt:

Collapse of Soviet Union,
1989-1991
http://sfr-21.org/collapse.html

Quote

...
The immediate cause of the Soviet collapse was economic, as the Soviet Union lost the arms race and international competition with the West. The United States was able to profit from its imperialist exploitation of other countries, while socialism could only lose economically in that competition. By the end, the ruble collapsed as Soviet consumers turned to imports to satisfy their needs. They could not buy a good pair of leather boots or a good television set or a computer made in the Soviet Union, because all the boots and the electronics were swallowed up by military procurement. And, needless to say, there were no quality goods to export in order to balance imports.
...

So it was blame the US, but oh, by the way, the Soviet Union produced NOTHING. And the US military does not gobble up all the available quality goods in the US, other than ballistic vests and ammunition which is not really on the normal "consumer" shopping list.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

> The Republican Party..the worse to happen to
> America in 100 years!

+1

Does BP really know what it's doing? 33 days now and the oil is still pouring out into the Gulf. WTF???

Oil still Spilling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does BP really know what it's doing? 33 days now
> and the oil is still pouring out into the Gulf.
> WTF???

BP will be blamed, but the administration better hope they can pull a rabbit out of their hat, otherwise they are going to get fried on this.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

The strategy of Republicans to embarrass the Obama administration by blocking repairs and clean up of the oil is deplorable.

Lopter50 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The strategy of Republicans to embarrass the Obama
> administration by blocking repairs and clean up of
> the oil is deplorable.

What's deplorable is you making bland statements that are meaningless. No one has stopped anything from being cleaned up, or paid for. The federal government on the other hand has done nothing but drag their feet.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Lopter50 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The strategy of Republicans to embarrass the Obama
> administration by blocking repairs and clean up of
> the oil is deplorable.

How have the Republicans blocked repairs and clean up? Seriously, I would like to know which Republicans have blocked clean up efforts by BP, the Coast Guard, NOAA, DEMA, Department of Interior, or ant other entity?

Oil still Spilling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does BP really know what it's doing?

right now they are stalling while they get a solution that works. their current solution is to plug the hole it's gushing out of using "mud". i think they are busy getting everything in place and making sure it works the first time. they have had enough embarrassment with failures already.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Oil still Spilling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Does BP really know what it's doing?

God hates oceans. BP is doing the Lord's work.

Of course no Republicans are going to step up to a microphone and say they "Want the oil spill to continue so Obama looks bad."

Especially anybody in Texas, because gulf front property in Teaxs is move valuable now due to the rest of the gulf shores being polluted.

Republicans show it in their actions -
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-19/republicans-put-taxpayers-on-hook-for-oil-damage-obama-says.html

Lopter59 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course no Republicans are going to step up to a
> microphone and say they "Want the oil spill to
> continue so Obama looks bad."


Yet, you stupidly wrote:

Lopter50 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The strategy of Republicans to embarrass the Obama
> administration by blocking repairs and clean up of
> the oil is deplorable.

Again, please tell us which Republicans actually blocked repairs and clean up of the oil. Put up or shut up.

What I cannot figure out, no matter whose fault it is, how can there not be a contingency plan for this type of event. It seems like someone involved in the drilling would know it could happen and then what can be done to stop it. I dont buy that it is because of the depth. If that was the case then drilling should have never been allowed in the first place.

It doesnt appear that anyone involved in the response team has a clue as to what will work. Of course accidents do happen but how did this get overlooked as a possible scenario.

BP is only concerned about one thing, getting the well working again. They know the taxpayers will clean up the mess.

Qwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BP is only concerned about one thing, getting the
> well working again. They know the taxpayers will
> clean up the mess.

Lopter,
If the taxpayers will clean up the mess, why hasn't the government stepped in and done it? Are we that concerned about whose fault it is or who has the capacity and/or wherewithal to get the job done? As someone who has relatives in the fishing industry, I am more concerned about fixing it quickly. Sure, call me a hypocrite, socialist, etc., but people are losing their livlihoods. When should our government step in and clean the mess up? Honestly, how is this any different than a natural disaster? Someone needs to have the balls to step up to the plate.

serious business Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Qwest Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BP is only concerned about one thing, getting
> the
> > well working again. They know the taxpayers
> will
> > clean up the mess.
>
> Lopter,
> If the taxpayers will clean up the mess, why
> hasn't the government stepped in and done it? Are
> we that concerned about whose fault it is or who
> has the capacity and/or wherewithal to get the
> job done? As someone who has relatives in the
> fishing industry, I am more concerned about fixing
> it quickly. Sure, call me a hypocrite, socialist,
> etc., but people are losing their livlihoods.
> When should our government step in and clean the
> mess up? Honestly, how is this any different than
> a natural disaster? Someone needs to have the
> balls to step up to the plate.


Dear Serious...so you honestly believe the Govt has the tools that a major oil company doesnt.to stop the oil spill? And on top of that the Govt is withholding that fix. You are truly a nut job!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2010 11:41PM by Vince(1).

serious business Wrote:
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> how is this any different than a natural disaster?

natural disasters occur naturally as opposed to machine failure.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

So on the radio yesterday I heard BP is now predicting it might be mid August before the leak is completely plugged. WTF?????

You can't tell me that a huge tug with a load of massive rocks can't plug this leak.

Give me 20 tug barges loaded with rocks and dirt and I'll this leak plugged in two days.

Like this
Attachments:

Lopter40 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can't tell me that a huge tug with a load of
> massive rocks can't plug this leak.

we (people on this board) dont know enough about the situation and the mechanics behind subterranean marine pressure systems to come up with a working solution. i do know that they drilled down quite far into the ocean floor to get to the oil. i think they are looking to replace what they drilled out in order to "plug" the hole permanently.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lopter40 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You can't tell me that a huge tug with a load
> of
> > massive rocks can't plug this leak.
>
> we (people on this board) dont know enough about
> the situation and the mechanics behind
> subterranean marine pressure systems to come up
> with a working solution. i do know that they
> drilled down quite far into the ocean floor to get
> to the oil. i think they are looking to replace
> what they drilled out in order to "plug" the hole
> permanently.

And all you need for that is a metric fuck-ton of rocks, right?

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