1. Immigrants take jobs from American workers.


Although immigrants account for 12.5 percent of the U.S. population, they make up about 15 percent of the workforce. They are overrepresented among workers largely because the rest of our population is aging: Immigrants and their children have accounted for 58 percent of U.S. population growth since 1980. This probably won't change anytime soon. Low U.S. fertility rates and the upcoming retirement of the baby boomers mean that immigration is likely to be the only source of growth in what we call the "prime age" workforce -- workers ages 25 to 55 -- in the decades ahead. As record numbers of retirees begin drawing Social Security checks, younger immigrant workers will be paying taxes, somewhat easing the financial pressures on the system.

Moreover, immigrants tend to be concentrated in high- and low-skilled occupations that complement -- rather than compete with -- jobs held by native workers. And the foreign-born workers who fill lower-paying jobs are typically first-hired/first-fired employees, allowing employers to expand and contract their workforces rapidly. As a result, immigrants experience higher employment than natives during booms -- but they suffer higher job losses during downturns, including the current one.

It's true that an influx of new workers pushes wages down, but immigration also stimulates growth by creating new consumers, entrepreneurs and investors. As a result of this growth, economists estimate that wages for the vast majority of American workers are slightly higher than they would be without immigration. U.S. workers without a high school degree experience wage declines as a result of competition from immigrants, but these losses are modest, at just over 1 percent. Economists also estimate that for each job an immigrant fills, an additional job is created.

2. Immigration is at an all-time high, and most new immigrants came illegally.


The historic high came more than a century ago, in 1890, when immigrants made up 14.8 percent of our population. Today, about two-thirds of immigrants are here legally, either as naturalized citizens or as lawful permanent residents, more commonly known as "green card" holders. And of the approximately 10.8 million immigrants who are in the country illegally, about 40 percent arrived legally but overstayed their visas.

It's worth noting that although the unauthorized immigrant population includes more people from Mexico than from any other country, Mexicans are also the largest group of lawful immigrants. As for the flow of illegal immigrants, apprehensions along the U.S.-Mexico border have declined by more than 50 percent over the past four years, while increases in the size of the illegal population, which had been growing by about 500,000 a year for more than a decade, have stopped. This decline is largely due to the recession, but stepped-up border enforcement is playing a part.

3. Today's immigrants are not integrating into American life like past waves did.


The integration of immigrants remains a hallmark of America's vitality as a society and a source of admiration abroad, as it has been throughout our history. Although some people complain that today's immigrants are not integrating into U.S. society as quickly as previous newcomers did, the same charge was leveled at virtually every past wave of immigrants, including the large numbers of Germans, Irish and Italians who arrived in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Today, as before, immigrant integration takes a generation or two. Learning English is one key driver of this process; the education and upward mobility of immigrants' children is the other. On the first count, today's immigrants consistently seek English instruction in such large numbers that adult-education programs cannot meet the demand, especially in places such as California. On the second count, the No Child Left Behind Act has played a critical role in helping educate immigrant children because it holds schools newly accountable for teaching them English.

However, the unauthorized status of millions of foreign-born immigrants can slow integration in crucial ways. For example, illegal immigrants are ineligible for in-state tuition at most public colleges and universities, putting higher education effectively out of their reach. And laws prohibiting unauthorized immigrants from getting driver's licenses or various professional credentials can leave them stuck in jobs with a high density of other immigrants and unable to advance.

4. Cracking down on illegal border crossings will make us safer.


The job of protecting the nation's borders is immense, encompassing nearly 7,500 miles of land borders, 12,380 miles of coastline and a vast network of sea ports, international airports, ports of entry along the Mexican and Canadian borders and visa-issuing consulates abroad.

Since Sept. 11, 2001, we have dramatically strengthened our borders through the use of biometrics at ports of entry, secure cargo-shipment systems, intelligence gathering, integrated databases and increased international cooperation. The Border Patrol has nearly doubled in size in the past five years, to more than 20,000 agents. The Department of Homeland Security says it is on schedule to meet congressional mandates for southwestern border enforcement, including fence-building. And cooperation with the Mexican government has improved significantly.

Still, our southwest border is more a classic law enforcement challenge than a front line in the war on terrorism. Antiterrorism measures rely heavily on intelligence gathering and clandestine efforts that are unrelated to border enforcement.

The seasoned enforcement officials I have spoken with all contend that if we provided enough visas to meet the economy's demand for workers, border agents would be freed to focus on protecting the nation from truly dangerous individuals and activities, such as drug-trafficking, smuggling and cartel violence.

5. Immigration reform cannot happen in an election year.


The politics of immigration can be explosive and can chase lawmakers away, especially as elections near, with the result that Congress infrequently and reluctantly updates immigration laws. However, all the significant immigration bills enacted in recent decades were passed in election years, often at the last minute and after fractious debates.

This list dates back to the Refugee Act of 1980, which established our system for humanitarian protection and refugee and asylum admissions. Next came the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which made it illegal to hire unauthorized immigrants and provided amnesty for 2.7 million illegal immigrants. The Immigration Act of 1990 increased the number of visas allotted to highly skilled workers. And the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act charged immigration agencies with implementing significant new law enforcement mandates.

Legislative attempts to make urgently needed changes fizzled in the House in 2005 and in the Senate in 2006 and 2007, and the to-do list for this Congress is substantial. But ruling out immigration reform, whether because Congress has other priorities or because it's an election year, would be a mistake. The outline for immigration legislation that Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.) and his Democratic colleagues unveiled last week, together with the uproar over the Arizona law, may help convince lawmakers that there's no time like the present.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/30/AR2010043001106.html

The biggest myth is that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. They do. It's not that they are undocumented. It's that the documents are false. In any event, most employers, such as retailers, restaurants and hotels, pay FICA and employment taxes for the illegals they hire (who provide paperwork, which allows these employers to comply with the letter of the law, if not necessarily the spirit). Illegals also pay local property taxes, either through houses they own (which is legal with a Tax Identification Number as opposed to SS#) or through the rent they pay to landlords, who then use the proceeds to pay property taxes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The biggest myth is that illegal immigrants don't
> pay taxes. They do. It's not that they are
> undocumented. It's that the documents are false.
> In any event, most employers, such as retailers,
> restaurants and hotels, pay FICA and employment
> taxes for the illegals they hire (who provide
> paperwork, which allows these employers to comply
> with the letter of the law, if not necessarily the
> spirit). Illegals also pay local property taxes,
> either through houses they own (which is legal
> with a Tax Identification Number as opposed to
> SS#) or through the rent they pay to landlords,
> who then use the proceeds to pay property taxes.


+1

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

I've got some mixed feelings on this, I like the Spanish and appreciate their work ethic. I don't like the way some neighborhoods have become barrios and that employers are able to race to the bottom with wages and that illegal tradesmen are able to undercut native workers because of lower overhead.

Illegals who work as subcontractors do not pay taxes, besides the unavoidable gas and sales taxes.

The assinmilation thing is fluid. There may be some intergration culturally but i fear it will become more difficult because of satellite TV and language specific radio, cheap long distance and airfare and the willingness of society to encourage ethnic pride and almost seperatism. Here's your capitalism and the freee market place-if there's a buck to be made in balkanization, they'll do it.

I think sometimes there is a catch22 in that if you legalize the illegals, they lose their utility because they require higher pay. If you keep the system as it is, it drives wages down for everyone.

Anonymous Vince thread.

So how come it's a myths thread here and a truths thread in on the main board?

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Illegals who work as subcontractors do not pay
> taxes, besides the unavoidable gas and sales
> taxes.
>
>

They, and their workers, do pay property taxes whether they rent or own. They may avoid FICA and employment taxes, but the concerns people raise most...paying for schools, city and county services, etc, are covered through sales and property taxes. On the flip side, since the illegals overall are paying into social security and aren't going to receive any of it, I consider the tax thing to be mostly a wash.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

But many are renting. And occupancy codes are often violated with many more people in a house or apartment than should be.


Immigrant contractors will often do work on 1099's. These people pay nothing to the feds or state.

Really you should say most pay some taxes.

Julio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Immigrants take jobs from American workers.
evd
>
> Although immigrants account for 12.5 percent of
> the U.S. population, they make up about 15 percent
> of the workforce. They are overrepresented among
> workers largely because the rest of our population
> is aging: Immigrants and their children have
> accounted for 58 percent of U.S. population growth
> since 1980. This probably won't change anytime
> soon. Low U.S. fertility rates and the upcoming
> retirement of the baby boomers mean that
> immigration is likely to be the only source of
> growth in what we call the "prime age" workforce
> -- workers ages 25 to 55 -- in the decades ahead.
> As record numbers of retirees begin drawing Social
> Security checks, younger immigrant workers will be
> paying taxes, somewhat easing the financial
> pressures on the system.
>
> Moreover, immigrants tend to be concentrated in
> high- and low-skilled occupations that complement
> -- rather than compete with -- jobs held by native
> workers. And the foreign-born workers who fill
> lower-paying jobs are typically
> first-hired/first-fired employees, allowing
> employers to expand and contract their workforces
> rapidly. As a result, immigrants experience higher
> employment than natives during booms -- but they
> suffer higher job losses during downturns,
> including the current one.
>
> It's true that an influx of new workers pushes
> wages down, but immigration also stimulates growth
> by creating new consumers, entrepreneurs and
> investors. As a result of this growth, economists
> estimate that wages for the vast majority of
> American workers are slightly higher than they
> would be without immigration. U.S. workers without
> a high school degree experience wage declines as a
> result of competition from immigrants, but these
> losses are modest, at just over 1 percent.
> Economists also estimate that for each job an
> immigrant fills, an additional job is created.
>
> 2. Immigration is at an all-time high, and most
> new immigrants came illegally.
>
>
> The historic high came more than a century ago, in
> 1890, when immigrants made up 14.8 percent of our
> population. Today, about two-thirds of immigrants
> are here legally, either as naturalized citizens
> or as lawful permanent residents, more commonly
> known as "green card" holders. And of the
> approximately 10.8 million immigrants who are in
> the country illegally, about 40 percent arrived
> legally but overstayed their visas.
>
> It's worth noting that although the unauthorized
> immigrant population includes more people from
> Mexico than from any other country, Mexicans are
> also the largest group of lawful immigrants. As
> for the flow of illegal immigrants, apprehensions
> along the U.S.-Mexico border have declined by more
> than 50 percent over the past four years, while
> increases in the size of the illegal population,
> which had been growing by about 500,000 a year for
> more than a decade, have stopped. This decline is
> largely due to the recession, but stepped-up
> border enforcement is playing a part.
>
> 3. Today's immigrants are not integrating into
> American life like past waves did.
>
>
> The integration of immigrants remains a hallmark
> of America's vitality as a society and a source of
> admiration abroad, as it has been throughout our
> history. Although some people complain that
> today's immigrants are not integrating into U.S.
> society as quickly as previous newcomers did, the
> same charge was leveled at virtually every past
> wave of immigrants, including the large numbers of
> Germans, Irish and Italians who arrived in the
> 19th and early 20th centuries.
>
> Today, as before, immigrant integration takes a
> generation or two. Learning English is one key
> driver of this process; the education and upward
> mobility of immigrants' children is the other. On
> the first count, today's immigrants consistently
> seek English instruction in such large numbers
> that adult-education programs cannot meet the
> demand, especially in places such as California.
> On the second count, the No Child Left Behind Act
> has played a critical role in helping educate
> immigrant children because it holds schools newly
> accountable for teaching them English.
>
> However, the unauthorized status of millions of
> foreign-born immigrants can slow integration in
> crucial ways. For example, illegal immigrants are
> ineligible for in-state tuition at most public
> colleges and universities, putting higher
> education effectively out of their reach. And laws
> prohibiting unauthorized immigrants from getting
> driver's licenses or various professional
> credentials can leave them stuck in jobs with a
> high density of other immigrants and unable to
> advance.
>
> 4. Cracking down on illegal border crossings will
> make us safer.
>
>
> The job of protecting the nation's borders is
> immense, encompassing nearly 7,500 miles of land
> borders, 12,380 miles of coastline and a vast
> network of sea ports, international airports,
> ports of entry along the Mexican and Canadian
> borders and visa-issuing consulates abroad.
>
> Since Sept. 11, 2001, we have dramatically
> strengthened our borders through the use of
> biometrics at ports of entry, secure
> cargo-shipment systems, intelligence gathering,
> integrated databases and increased international
> cooperation. The Border Patrol has nearly doubled
> in size in the past five years, to more than
> 20,000 agents. The Department of Homeland Security
> says it is on schedule to meet congressional
> mandates for southwestern border enforcement,
> including fence-building. And cooperation with the
> Mexican government has improved significantly.
>
> Still, our southwest border is more a classic law
> enforcement challenge than a front line in the war
> on terrorism. Antiterrorism measures rely heavily
> on intelligence gathering and clandestine efforts
> that are unrelated to border enforcement.
>
> The seasoned enforcement officials I have spoken
> with all contend that if we provided enough visas
> to meet the economy's demand for workers, border
> agents would be freed to focus on protecting the
> nation from truly dangerous individuals and
> activities, such as drug-trafficking, smuggling
> and cartel violence.
>
> 5. Immigration reform cannot happen in an election
> year.
>
>
> The politics of immigration can be explosive and
> can chase lawmakers away, especially as elections
> near, with the result that Congress infrequently
> and reluctantly updates immigration laws. However,
> all the significant immigration bills enacted in
> recent decades were passed in election years,
> often at the last minute and after fractious
> debates.
>
> This list dates back to the Refugee Act of 1980,
> which established our system for humanitarian
> protection and refugee and asylum admissions. Next
> came the Immigration Reform and Control Act of
> 1986, which made it illegal to hire unauthorized
> immigrants and provided amnesty for 2.7 million
> illegal immigrants. The Immigration Act of 1990
> increased the number of visas allotted to highly
> skilled workers. And the 1996 Illegal Immigration
> Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act charged
> immigration agencies with implementing significant
> new law enforcement mandates.
>
> Legislative attempts to make urgently needed
> changes fizzled in the House in 2005 and in the
> Senate in 2006 and 2007, and the to-do list for
> this Congress is substantial. But ruling out
> immigration reform, whether because Congress has
> other priorities or because it's an election year,
> would be a mistake. The outline for immigration
> legislation that Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.) and
> his Democratic colleagues unveiled last week,
> together with the uproar over the Arizona law, may
> help convince lawmakers that there's no time like
> the present.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2010/04/30/AR2010043001106.html

This whole article is a myth/Lie perpetuated by liberal bullshitters at the Washington ComPost

ml
>
> This whole article is a myth/Lie perpetuated by
> liberal bullshitters at the Washington ComPost


I know it's tough when your hate, anger and venom is proved fruitless...but try and get over it.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ml
> >
> > This whole article is a myth/Lie perpetuated
> by
> > liberal bullshitters at the Washington ComPost
>
>
> I know it's tough when your hate, anger and venom
> is proved fruitless...but try and get over it.


Take your own advice you dirty brownie hound.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The biggest myth is that illegal immigrants don't
> pay taxes. They do. It's not that they are
> undocumented. It's that the documents are false.
> In any event, most employers, such as retailers,
> restaurants and hotels, pay FICA and employment
> taxes for the illegals they hire (who provide
> paperwork, which allows these employers to comply
> with the letter of the law, if not necessarily the
> spirit). Illegals also pay local property taxes,
> either through houses they own (which is legal
> with a Tax Identification Number as opposed to
> SS#) or through the rent they pay to landlords,
> who then use the proceeds to pay property taxes.


If illegal beaners paid so much in terms of taxes, then we wouldn't be seeing them driving around in newer and nicer cars than ourselves, or buying the latest everything. Face it, they're all tax cheats, and they're scum.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The biggest myth is that illegal immigrants
> don't
> > pay taxes. They do. It's not that they are
> > undocumented. It's that the documents are
> false.
> > In any event, most employers, such as
> retailers,
> > restaurants and hotels, pay FICA and employment
> > taxes for the illegals they hire (who provide
> > paperwork, which allows these employers to
> comply
> > with the letter of the law, if not necessarily
> the
> > spirit). Illegals also pay local property
> taxes,
> > either through houses they own (which is legal
> > with a Tax Identification Number as opposed to
> > SS#) or through the rent they pay to landlords,
> > who then use the proceeds to pay property
> taxes.
>
>
> If illegal beaners paid so much in terms of taxes,
> then we wouldn't be seeing them driving around in
> newer and nicer cars than ourselves, or buying the
> latest everything. Face it, they're all tax
> cheats, and they're scum.


They are forced to be tax cheaters. They'd be overjoyed to pay taxes. What a crock about the newest and nicest things...especially cars. The only people I ever see at bus stops during non-rush hour times are hispanics and other minority groups. Face it...you see what you want to see and disregard the rest.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Well this is one nice fucking LIBERAL ILLEGAL SPIC-LOVIN' thread here.

Oh and WTL, your an asswipe. NO THEY DO NOT PAY TAXES they adjust thier withholdings and when someone asks questions they disappear and get a new job by commiting identity theft by using some LEGAL AMERICAN's social security number or just a bullshit one like you and themselves.


Oh and Vince(1) said,
>They are forced to be tax cheaters.

We got it straight from the horses mouth now. But Really? we are forcing them? I thought we never wanted them here, and were asking them to KINDLY LEAVE.

Haha! Not even your lying-ass, superhero, lame duck president can stop this train, so get over it you beaners and beansuckin lovers the likes of WTL's friutcake ass.

==================================================================================
"Why don't you LOSERS just pack your flower print DOUCHE BAGS
and get your stoopid @$$#$ THE FUCK OFF MY INTERNETZ!"

- 'philscamms' (the YT Watchdog) ; internet & YouTube® extraordinaire.

You are correct sir. Don't forget the old trick of claiming 6 or 7 dependents to minimize your witholding. And if you are already working under a bogus SSN what is the incentive not to?



Troll@AOL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well this is one nice fucking LIBERAL ILLEGAL
> SPIC-LOVIN' thread here.
>
> Oh and WTL, your an asswipe. NO THEY DO NOT PAY
> TAXES they adjust thier withholdings and when
> someone asks questions they disappear and get a
> new job by commiting identity theft by using some
> LEGAL AMERICAN's social security number or just a
> bullshit one like you and themselves.
>
>
> Oh and Vince(1) said,
> >They are forced to be tax cheaters.
>
> We got it straight from the horses mouth now. But
> Really? we are forcing them? I thought we never
> wanted them here, and were asking them to KINDLY
> LEAVE.
>
> Haha! Not even your lying-ass, superhero, lame
> duck president can stop this train, so get over it
> you beaners and beansuckin lovers the likes of
> WTL's friutcake ass.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Illegals who work as subcontractors do not pay
> > taxes, besides the unavoidable gas and sales
> > taxes.
> >
> >
>
> They, and their workers, do pay property taxes
> whether they rent or own. They may avoid FICA and
> employment taxes, but the concerns people raise
> most...paying for schools, city and county
> services, etc, are covered through sales and
> property taxes. On the flip side, since the
> illegals overall are paying into social security
> and aren't going to receive any of it, I consider
> the tax thing to be mostly a wash.



They may pay rent....but unscrupulous landlords exploit them by cramming as many immigrants as they can on a property. This was brought to light a few years ago in Springfield, over a dozen or so immigrants would share a single family home.

Rent and sales tax is the majority of what they pay. Period.

The guys you see standing around at the 7-11 or Home Depot do not pay State or Federal income tax, FICA, etc. The same folks are the ones that go to the emergency room and use medicaid provided services - which both the State and Fed pay for. They get welfare, rent subsidies (assuming they can rent a place), their kids get their lunches paid for, etc.

If they are so happy to pay taxes, then let them. I am sure the IRS and State will take a tax check from them if they want to pay in. As it stands these guys make $10-$40/hour tax free doing full and part time labor. They also blatantly disregard zoning laws on occupancy limits.

They need to get them a guest worker pass, as Bush and others have proposed, and get them legitimately paying taxes. I would imagine it is pretty easy to figure out when someone is using a fake SSN (from the IRS side of things) - the person filing legitimately would be filing and their accounts would be significantly out of balance. For the ones who are somehow able to use one from a dead person or unassigned, those pools would also be easy to figure out.

Sorry, they may pay some taxes, but not enough to offset their use of services.

It's pretty obvious that cracking down on the border will have an impact - look at what happened now since Arizona passed their law - Mexico is about to have a fit, and 70% of the people are supporting the law. Once they get full border enforcement in place, then they can enforce the laws already on the book regarding legal immigration totals, and processing of folks crossing the border.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

eesh, gimme a break! The landlord charges a set price, it is the illegals cramming all thier family members and friends into single family occupancy dwellings and collecting all the additional rent (tax free rent, from tax free workers that is).

==================================================================================
"Why don't you LOSERS just pack your flower print DOUCHE BAGS
and get your stoopid @$$#$ THE FUCK OFF MY INTERNETZ!"

- 'philscamms' (the YT Watchdog) ; internet & YouTube® extraordinaire.