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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: April 16, 2010 11:14AM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Is this realistic? Obama thinks so....


Yesterday I heard on the news that China, Russia and the european space agency are all planning missions to mars. However, the cost of such a mission would most likely require multinational involvement.

It's definitely doable, we've already sent unmanned vehicles there and there is an experiment going on right now where 4-5 astronauts are planned to be in a space capsule for 500 days to access the effects.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Date: April 16, 2010 11:19AM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Is this realistic? Obama thinks so....
>
>
> Yesterday I heard on the news that China, Russia
> and the european space agency are all planning
> missions to mars. However, the cost of such a
> mission would most likely require multinational
> involvement.
>
> It's definitely doable, we've already sent
> unmanned vehicles there and there is an experiment
> going on right now where 4-5 astronauts are
> planned to be in a space capsule for 500 days to
> access the effects.


Of all the challenges associated with going to Mars, the most perplexing is how to create a vessel that can reach escape velocity from Mars with a skeleton crew of astronauts to do it and without the support a similar launch would have on Earth (a Mars mission wouldn't even have the luxury of real-time communication with NASA).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: April 16, 2010 11:20AM

We can send a ship there, but with today's technology it will be like stepping into Apollo 13 knowing a failure is imminent. We still lose our unmanned probes from time to time - and who knows realistically what conditions they would find there. We would rather send them off somewhat "blind" versus having established a local presence on the Moon first? Seems kind of like an over-reach at this time.

The amount of money required to establish a moon base is large, yes, but would set us up for future exploration. The space station is nice, but it is in orbit and requires maintenance to stay there - in addition to just maintaining atmosphere and such. On the Moon they would be able to establish domes for growing plants to help with the oxygen cycle, and rely less on equipment to scrub the atmosphere.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Date: April 16, 2010 11:23AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The amount of money required to establish a moon
> base is large, yes, but would set us up for future
> exploration.


This reminds me of the original belief that Egyptians used a single, large dirt ramp to build each pyramid. When engineers looked at the issue, they came to the conclusion that building such a ramp would be a bigger engineering project than building the pyramid itself.

I have that feeling about the moon base in relation to a Mars mission.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2010 11:23AM by WashingTone-Locian.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: April 16, 2010 11:23AM

I think we need to research faster propulsion technology. Right now it would take too long for the crew to reach Mars.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Bounce House ()
Date: April 16, 2010 01:09PM

I think the more appropriate question is "should we bother trying to send man to Mars?" And the cost/benefit analysis, including oppurtunity cost, has to result in a No.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: April 16, 2010 10:40PM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > The amount of money required to establish a
> moon
> > base is large, yes, but would set us up for
> future
> > exploration.
>
>
> This reminds me of the original belief that
> Egyptians used a single, large dirt ramp to build
> each pyramid. When engineers looked at the issue,
> they came to the conclusion that building such a
> ramp would be a bigger engineering project than
> building the pyramid itself.
>
> I have that feeling about the moon base in
> relation to a Mars mission.

If something happens on the moon, we have some possibility of sending a mission with supplies, or to rescue them. A Chance. Not even a for sure possibility.

So of course, it makes infinitely more sense to send a crew of folks in a space craft that will likely have had limited testing on long term flights just to say we were able to go there? What would be the point of a manned mission to Mars? What is the potential return? If they suffer a catastrophic failure, are we willing to basically send these people off to die? This isn't like early explorers here on Earth - at least if they went off course or had a failure, there was a chance they might encounter an island and still be able to live on indefinitely. With a canned air source, limited time scrubber and other recycling capability, and the strong possibility of system failures in flight or at the end - I just don't get it. The space station will have a very limited ability to setup and maintain manufacturing facilities, and all raw resources would have to be lifted from the Earth gravity well. On the Moon, there are already technologies being explored that would allow them to at least manufacture fuel locally, if not actually produce other building materials.

Do I believe we can get to Mars? Sure. But is it really worth just saying we sent someone there? That seems like a very short-sighted approach - and an attempt to get something "on the cheap" just to say we have an accomplishment. And the chance for failure on a venture of that sort is magnitudes higher then establishing a productive base on the Moon.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: ThePackLeader ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:21AM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we need to research faster propulsion
> technology. Right now it would take too long for
> the crew to reach Mars.


I believe the Military already has it, but fat chance NASA will ever get it. It would be so highly classified, that even the designated level of classification would be compartmentalized in of itself.

I can tell you that the theories are there for amazing propulsion systems, but it's simply the real existence of such that remains questionable. Electrogravitics is one such system, and it is a form of "Anti-Gravity". It works by creating a gravity well in front of the craft, and as such, the craft is continuously being pulled ever faster toward its own black-hole (In a sense). Not only that, but the craft can change direction at right angles, and stop on a dime, all without the passengers feeling any G-forces whatsoever.

You also have the "Stargate" technology, which is based upon very real physics indeed. Wormholes are shortcuts through the space-time continuum, and if you could place a highly charged set of plates (ie, the Gate) at another location, you could travel there in a nearly instantaneous fashion. The amount of energy required though, is the equivalency of placing our Sun inbetween two conductive plates. This basically works in a very similar principle to the Electrogravitics "Gravity Well", and both in turn conform to a view of the Universe known as "Subquantum Kinetics".

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: ThePackLeader ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:22AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Registered Voter Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > The amount of money required to establish a
> > moon
> > > base is large, yes, but would set us up for
> > future
> > > exploration.
> >
> >
> > This reminds me of the original belief that
> > Egyptians used a single, large dirt ramp to
> build
> > each pyramid. When engineers looked at the
> issue,
> > they came to the conclusion that building such
> a
> > ramp would be a bigger engineering project than
> > building the pyramid itself.
> >
> > I have that feeling about the moon base in
> > relation to a Mars mission.
>
> If something happens on the moon, we have some
> possibility of sending a mission with supplies, or
> to rescue them. A Chance. Not even a for sure
> possibility.
>
> So of course, it makes infinitely more sense to
> send a crew of folks in a space craft that will
> likely have had limited testing on long term
> flights just to say we were able to go there? What
> would be the point of a manned mission to Mars?
> What is the potential return? If they suffer a
> catastrophic failure, are we willing to basically
> send these people off to die? This isn't like
> early explorers here on Earth - at least if they
> went off course or had a failure, there was a
> chance they might encounter an island and still be
> able to live on indefinitely. With a canned air
> source, limited time scrubber and other recycling
> capability, and the strong possibility of system
> failures in flight or at the end - I just don't
> get it. The space station will have a very limited
> ability to setup and maintain manufacturing
> facilities, and all raw resources would have to be
> lifted from the Earth gravity well. On the Moon,
> there are already technologies being explored that
> would allow them to at least manufacture fuel
> locally, if not actually produce other building
> materials.
>
> Do I believe we can get to Mars? Sure. But is it
> really worth just saying we sent someone there?
> That seems like a very short-sighted approach -
> and an attempt to get something "on the cheap"
> just to say we have an accomplishment. And the
> chance for failure on a venture of that sort is
> magnitudes higher then establishing a productive
> base on the Moon.


Not to mention the fact that the Moon can serve as a necessary protective outpost for Earth. We have sent enough messages out into the void of Space, so we had better be prepared for any number of responses.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Tigerstyle ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:28AM

I just found a leaked video of the REAL first manned mission to Mars, using the very same propulsion techniques the wise PackLeader has revealed


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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:39AM

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wormholes are
> shortcuts through the space-time continuum, and if
> you could place a highly charged set of plates
> (ie, the Gate) at another location, you could
> travel there in a nearly instantaneous fashion.




No!!! Didn't you watch Event Horizon with Laurence Fishburne? Those things LEAD STRAIGHT TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: April 17, 2010 11:05AM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we need to research faster propulsion
> technology. Right now it would take too long for
> the crew to reach Mars.


Bingo! There is all sorts of scientific research that will need to be done before a cost efficient permanent/settlement space exploration program can be accomplished.

In addition the question must be asked if any attempt at space exploration is a higher priority then lets say medical research...education...reducing the deficit.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: conVince ()
Date: April 17, 2010 11:35AM

The real demokrat mars mission
Attachments:
ss-100416-cagle-toons-14.ss_full.jpg

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Qwest ()
Date: April 17, 2010 11:41AM

I moon base would be ridicules. We would just be building the same platform we will build on Earth at three time cost and under terrible conditions. Not to mention the sub freezing weather that happens on the dark side of the moon.

The best effort is to join other countries in a multi-nation attempt. We know we can get probes to Mars. We just need to scale up the operation.

The fact the life on Earth may have started on Mars(Moved to earth by a striking meteor) is very intriguing and could leads to health discoveries of enormous proportion.

HOWEVER, LET'S GET NASA TO CURE CANCER BEFORE WE GO SPENDING MONEY ON PLANET EXPLORATION.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: April 17, 2010 11:50AM

Qwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> HOWEVER, LET'S GET NASA TO CURE CANCER BEFORE WE
> GO SPENDING MONEY ON PLANET EXPLORATION.



+1 We need to put billions in medical research and cure real diseases before we spend it on a probe that can tell us about the soil content on a planet.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: cry baby ()
Date: April 17, 2010 11:56AM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Qwest Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > HOWEVER, LET'S GET NASA TO CURE CANCER BEFORE
> WE
> > GO SPENDING MONEY ON PLANET EXPLORATION.
>
>
>
> +1 We need to put billions in medical research and
> cure real diseases before we spend it on a probe
> that can tell us about the soil content on a
> planet.
Attachments:
crying_baby.jpg

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: April 17, 2010 11:58AM

There is so much wrong with the above post I don't even know where to begin. It ranges in idiocy from not acknowledging one of the biggest hindrances and dangers to space exploration is our own atmosphere and gravitational pull, to proposing a huge portion of the NASA budget and effort should be reallocated to taking the agency outside of its core competencies and start reinventing the wheel of cancer research. Truly a spectacular post.

Unfortunately those capable of posting such things, plus those that think islands can tip over if too many people stand on one side of it, are in charge of deciding what is best for the NASA budget. What a wonderful world we live in.

There may not be a need to build much of a base on the moon, at least on its surface... some have proposed re-purposing the International Space Station by fitting it with different propulsion and working out automated resupply ships and sending it to the moon rather than abandoning it.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: agreed ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:00PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is so much wrong with the above post I don't
> even know where to begin. It ranges in idiocy
> from not acknowledging one of the biggest
> hindrances and dangers to space exploration is our
> own atmosphere and gravitational pull, to
> proposing a huge portion of the NASA budget and
> effort should be reallocated to taking the agency
> outside of its core competencies and start
> reinventing the wheel of cancer research. Truly a
> spectacular post.
>
> Unfortunately those capable of posting such
> things, plus those that think islands can tip over
> if too many people stand on one side of it, are in
> charge of deciding what is best for the NASA
> budget. What a wonderful world we live in.
>
> There may not be a need to build much of a base on
> the moon, at least on its surface... some have
> proposed re-purposing the International Space
> Station by fitting it with different propulsion
> and working out automated resupply ships and
> sending it to the moon rather than abandoning it.


eesh is an idiot

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:02PM

Hmmmm....putting money into medical research that can make the world a better place, or chase a pipe dream in space funding a stagnant agency. Using a word from the office, it's a no brainer.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: duh! ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:08PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmmm....putting money into medical research that
> can make the world a better place, or chase a pipe
> dream in space funding a stagnant agency. Using a
> word from the office, it's a no brainer.


Hey, idiot, the pharmaceutical lobby will always be against finding real cures as long as they make big bucks off of feeding people pills for the rest of their lives. A one shot cure, or selling you pills for the rest of your life? Long term maintenance medicine is the real 'no brainer' for the pharmaceutical companies.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Qwest ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:09PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmmm....putting money into medical research that
> can make the world a better place, or chase a pipe
> dream in space funding a stagnant agency. Using a
> word from the office, it's a no brainer.

Why don't we just throw a trillion dollars out in to space. It would be a lot quicker, save time and get the same results.

Were just throwing money into space.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:11PM

My post was in reference to qwest's nonsense.

But eesh, you fail to realize that throwing more money at cancer research won't make it go quicker or better. There is already infinite financial incentive to cure cancer and plenty of companies and universities are researching it. What new people are you going to pay to add to cancer research that aren't already doing it? NASA space engineers? Please tell me you don't think that a space engineer or a physicist can be instantly converted into a cancer researcher just because they are "smart people."

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: it's obvious ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:12PM

Qwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hmmmm....putting money into medical research
> that
> > can make the world a better place, or chase a
> pipe
> > dream in space funding a stagnant agency. Using
> a
> > word from the office, it's a no brainer.
>
> Why don't we just throw a trillion dollars out in
> to space. It would be a lot quicker, save time
> and get the same results.
>
> Were just throwing money into space.


The same can be said about medical research. The pharmaceutical companies are not interested in a one time cure for our maladies; they would prefer to sell us a cocktail of pills for the rest of our lives.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: hahaha ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:13PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My post was in reference to qwest's nonsense.
>
> But eesh, you fail to realize that throwing more
> money at cancer research won't make it go quicker
> or better. There is already infinite financial
> incentive to cure cancer and plenty of companies
> and universities are researching it. What new
> people are you going to pay to add to cancer
> research that aren't already doing it? NASA space
> engineers? Please tell me you don't think that a
> space engineer or a physicist can be instantly
> converted into a cancer researcher just because
> they are "smart people."


lol

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:18PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NASA space
> engineers? Please tell me you don't think that a
> space engineer or a physicist can be instantly
> converted into a cancer researcher just because
> they are "smart people."



No...I'm talking about the funding they, meaning NASA receive each year. Of course the engineers and physicists won't be researching medicine.

NASA is a bloated dinosaur, I think Obama is right about more private involvement in space exploration. It would be efficient and less costly.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: le tigre ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:21PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NASA space
> > engineers? Please tell me you don't think that
> a
> > space engineer or a physicist can be instantly
> > converted into a cancer researcher just because
> > they are "smart people."
>
>
>
> No...I'm talking about the funding they, meaning
> NASA receive each year. Of course the engineers
> and physicists won't be researching medicine.
>
> NASA is a bloated dinosaur, I think Obama is right
> about more private involvement in space
> exploration. It would be efficient and less
> costly.


You're right about NASA being archaic. However, I believe a semi-private model/venture would be far more succesful, efficient, and cost effective.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Qwest ()
Date: April 17, 2010 12:56PM

le tigre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > No...I'm talking about the funding they,
> meaning
> > NASA receive each year. Of course the engineers
> > and physicists won't be researching medicine.
> >
> > NASA is a bloated dinosaur, I think Obama is
> right
> > about more private involvement in space
> > exploration. It would be efficient and less
> > costly.
>
>
> You're right about NASA being archaic. However, I
> believe a semi-private model/venture would be far
> more succesful, efficient, and cost effective.

Doesn't are government get ripped off enough by bogus defense projects? Now you want NASA work to go private contractors? Look at the big O ring failare. INSANE

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: le tigre ()
Date: April 17, 2010 01:04PM

Qwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> le tigre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > No...I'm talking about the funding they,
> > meaning
> > > NASA receive each year. Of course the
> engineers
> > > and physicists won't be researching medicine.
>
> > >
> > > NASA is a bloated dinosaur, I think Obama is
> > right
> > > about more private involvement in space
> > > exploration. It would be efficient and less
> > > costly.
> >
> >
> > You're right about NASA being archaic. However,
> I
> > believe a semi-private model/venture would be
> far
> > more succesful, efficient, and cost effective.
>
> Doesn't are government get ripped off enough by
> bogus defense projects? Now you want NASA work to
> go private contractors? Look at the big O ring
> failare. INSANE


Once again, I simply believe that outsourcing via open competitive bidding with federal oversight would result in a more successful, efficient, and cost effective venture.

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: April 17, 2010 01:18PM

le tigre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Once again, I simply believe that outsourcing via
> open competitive bidding with federal oversight
> would result in a more successful, efficient, and
> cost effective venture.



HAHAHAHAHA Look at little inkahootz anonymous troll trying to sound smart. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: eeshtard.. ()
Date: April 17, 2010 01:31PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> le tigre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> >
> > Once again, I simply believe that outsourcing
> via
> > open competitive bidding with federal oversight
> > would result in a more successful, efficient,
> and
> > cost effective venture.
>
>
>
> HAHAHAHAHA Look at little inkahootz anonymous
> troll trying to sound smart. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Look at eesh 'acting' like a sophomoric faggot! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Tigerstyle ()
Date: April 17, 2010 01:33PM

+1! Way to call him out eesh!

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> le tigre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> >
> > Once again, I simply believe that outsourcing
> via
> > open competitive bidding with federal oversight
> > would result in a more successful, efficient,
> and
> > cost effective venture.
>
>
>
> HAHAHAHAHA Look at little inkahootz anonymous
> troll trying to sound smart. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: way to go twinkie lover! ()
Date: April 17, 2010 01:35PM

way to back yourself up eesh!



eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1! Way to call him out eesh!
>
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > eesh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Once again, I simply believe that outsourcing
> > via
> > > open competitive bidding with federal
> oversight
> > > would result in a more successful, efficient,
> > and
> > > cost effective venture.
> >
> >
> >
> > HAHAHAHAHA Look at little inkahootz anonymous
> > troll trying to sound smart. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 18, 2010 04:29AM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But eesh, you fail to realize that throwing more
> money at cancer research won't make it go quicker
> or better.


+1

> There is already infinite financial
> incentive to cure cancer


wrong! it's far more profitable to treat an ailment for years than it is to cure it.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Can we Go to Mars??
Posted by: obvious ()
Date: April 18, 2010 07:44AM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > But eesh, you fail to realize that throwing
> more
> > money at cancer research won't make it go
> quicker
> > or better.
>
> +1
>
> > There is already infinite financial
> > incentive to cure cancer
>
> wrong! it's far more profitable to treat an
> ailment for years than it is to cure it.



That's what I've been saying!

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