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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Barr's [T]
Posted by:
Wordsmith
()
Date: March 29, 2019 10:34AM
Let's begin this post with a grammatical lesson. It may seem like a bad idea, but stick with me for a minute because this discovery is going somewhere.
Let’s say I wrote an item that said, “I liked last night’s edition of ‘Hannity,’ and learned a lot about Betsy DeVos and the Special Olympics, but what stood out for me was the coverage of Robert Mueller’s grand jury.”
Let’s also say you wanted to quote that item, but wanted to narrow the focus. You could truncate it a bit by removing part of the sentence: “[W]hat stood out for me was the coverage of Robert Mueller’s grand jury.”
The brackets around the “w” let the reader know that there were words that preceded the “what” in the original sentence. Without the brackets, if you quoted me by writing, “What stood out….” it’d be misleading to the reader, because the sentence didn’t start that exact way.
Now, yesterday I saw a Daily Kos item which highlighted a detail we all overlooked in Attorney General Bill Barr’s memo on Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report on the Russia scandal.
Arguably the most politically provocative line in the document was the one in which the attorney general said Mueller “did not establish” a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia. But take another look at the sentence exactly as it appeared in Barr’s brief summary. Quoting Mueller’s findings, Barr wrote in his summary:
“As the report states : ‘[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.’”
I’m Her we see, the most heavily quoted sentence in the Mueller report isn’t a sentence – it’s the latter part of a larger sentence.
To be sure, independent of the brackets, it’s an important 23-word excerpt, which has been parsed in a variety of ways. Some Republicans – and even some reporters – decided to interpret “did not establish” as “no evidence,” for example, which is a mistake. There are some related questions about the specific parameters of phrases such as “the Russian government.”
But the brackets around the capital"T" add a specific detail: something immediately preceded this important part of the Mueller report.
Without seeing the original, one can only wonder and I’m not prepared to guess. Maybe the first part of the sentence helps Donald Trump’s case; maybe not. Maybe the attorney general cut off the sentence at a benign point, or maybe he was trying to obscure a detail the president would find embarrassing. There’s just no way to know. We’ll have to wait for the administration to release the special counsel’s findings (if the administration ever agrees to disclose it).
But this small grammatical detail is a reminder of just how little information we have about the document, which is apparently more than 300 pages long. While we wait for more meaningful transparency, perhaps Barr could at least tell us about the first part of that sentence?
How about releasing that paragraph?
Let’s say I wrote an item that said, “I liked last night’s edition of ‘Hannity,’ and learned a lot about Betsy DeVos and the Special Olympics, but what stood out for me was the coverage of Robert Mueller’s grand jury.”
Let’s also say you wanted to quote that item, but wanted to narrow the focus. You could truncate it a bit by removing part of the sentence: “[W]hat stood out for me was the coverage of Robert Mueller’s grand jury.”
The brackets around the “w” let the reader know that there were words that preceded the “what” in the original sentence. Without the brackets, if you quoted me by writing, “What stood out….” it’d be misleading to the reader, because the sentence didn’t start that exact way.
Now, yesterday I saw a Daily Kos item which highlighted a detail we all overlooked in Attorney General Bill Barr’s memo on Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report on the Russia scandal.
Arguably the most politically provocative line in the document was the one in which the attorney general said Mueller “did not establish” a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia. But take another look at the sentence exactly as it appeared in Barr’s brief summary. Quoting Mueller’s findings, Barr wrote in his summary:
“As the report states : ‘[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.’”
I’m Her we see, the most heavily quoted sentence in the Mueller report isn’t a sentence – it’s the latter part of a larger sentence.
To be sure, independent of the brackets, it’s an important 23-word excerpt, which has been parsed in a variety of ways. Some Republicans – and even some reporters – decided to interpret “did not establish” as “no evidence,” for example, which is a mistake. There are some related questions about the specific parameters of phrases such as “the Russian government.”
But the brackets around the capital"T" add a specific detail: something immediately preceded this important part of the Mueller report.
Without seeing the original, one can only wonder and I’m not prepared to guess. Maybe the first part of the sentence helps Donald Trump’s case; maybe not. Maybe the attorney general cut off the sentence at a benign point, or maybe he was trying to obscure a detail the president would find embarrassing. There’s just no way to know. We’ll have to wait for the administration to release the special counsel’s findings (if the administration ever agrees to disclose it).
But this small grammatical detail is a reminder of just how little information we have about the document, which is apparently more than 300 pages long. While we wait for more meaningful transparency, perhaps Barr could at least tell us about the first part of that sentence?
How about releasing that paragraph?
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
Englsih major
()
Date: March 29, 2019 11:35AM
It is very clear that "did not establish" is a very different thing from "complete and total exoneration" or even "no evidence". I don't expect Trumpkins to be able to draw that type of distinction, but it is very disappointing that so many others fail to see the difference. The gap between "did not establish" and"no evidence/complete and total exoneration" is big enough to drive a tank through.
No wonder Trump wanted to change the subject to health care. He knows the difference (or at least his lawyers do).
The game is far from over.
No wonder Trump wanted to change the subject to health care. He knows the difference (or at least his lawyers do).
The game is far from over.
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
Wordsmith
()
Date: April 18, 2019 04:35PM
The full paragraph has been released.
"Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,"
Gee, Mr. Barr, if I wasn't such a Trumptard, I would have taken your original "summary,"
‘[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.’”
And juxtaposed it with Mueller's complete sentence (above), to show you as a partisan hack who tries to decieve the American people.
Bobby Kennedy must be rolling in his grave.
"Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,"
Gee, Mr. Barr, if I wasn't such a Trumptard, I would have taken your original "summary,"
‘[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.’”
And juxtaposed it with Mueller's complete sentence (above), to show you as a partisan hack who tries to decieve the American people.
Bobby Kennedy must be rolling in his grave.
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
right...
()
Date: April 18, 2019 06:01PM
right, so the "no American colluded" means what exactly?
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
Wordsmith
()
Date: April 18, 2019 06:31PM
right... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> right, so the "no American colluded" means what
> exactly?
Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was not in the report.
Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have found any evidence that President Trump or any of his associates conspired to collude or cooperated with the Russian government's attempts to interfere with our 2016 election. But for all intents and purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act on behalf of the Russian government, and did supply a Russian agent internal polling data, messaging outlines, and state strategy campaign information to try and get the ball rolling.
To continue, according to Mueller, as a former Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort and Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a business associate suspected of having ties to Russian intelligence that involved discussing handing Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine. Those talks included the possibility of Trump providing a “slight push” to set the plan in motion. While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his office “did not establish” that the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, Manafort’s contacts with his longtime Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin Kilmnik, may come close to a full tit for tat agreement between Russia and the Trump campaign.
Did you even read the report?
-------------------------------------------------------
> right, so the "no American colluded" means what
> exactly?
Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was not in the report.
Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have found any evidence that President Trump or any of his associates conspired to collude or cooperated with the Russian government's attempts to interfere with our 2016 election. But for all intents and purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act on behalf of the Russian government, and did supply a Russian agent internal polling data, messaging outlines, and state strategy campaign information to try and get the ball rolling.
To continue, according to Mueller, as a former Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort and Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a business associate suspected of having ties to Russian intelligence that involved discussing handing Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine. Those talks included the possibility of Trump providing a “slight push” to set the plan in motion. While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his office “did not establish” that the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, Manafort’s contacts with his longtime Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin Kilmnik, may come close to a full tit for tat agreement between Russia and the Trump campaign.
Did you even read the report?
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
Go Away Libtard
()
Date: April 18, 2019 06:46PM
Wordsmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> right... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > right, so the "no American colluded" means what
> > exactly?
>
>
> Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was not
> in the report.
>
> Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have found
> any evidence that President Trump or any of his
> associates conspired to collude or cooperated with
> the Russian government's attempts to interfere
> with our 2016 election. But for all intents and
> purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and
> current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act on
> behalf of the Russian government, and did supply a
> Russian agent internal polling data, messaging
> outlines, and state strategy campaign information
> to try and get the ball rolling.
>
>
> To continue, according to Mueller, as a former
> Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort and
> Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a business
> associate suspected of having ties to Russian
> intelligence that involved discussing handing
> Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine. Those
> talks included the possibility of Trump providing
> a “slight push” to set the plan in motion.
> While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his
> office “did not establish” that the Trump
> campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin
> worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential
> election, Manafort’s contacts with his longtime
> Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin Kilmnik,
> may come close to a full tit for tat agreement
> between Russia and the Trump campaign.
>
> Did you even read the report?
Yawn, you have him now faggot. LMFAO
-------------------------------------------------------
> right... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > right, so the "no American colluded" means what
> > exactly?
>
>
> Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was not
> in the report.
>
> Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have found
> any evidence that President Trump or any of his
> associates conspired to collude or cooperated with
> the Russian government's attempts to interfere
> with our 2016 election. But for all intents and
> purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and
> current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act on
> behalf of the Russian government, and did supply a
> Russian agent internal polling data, messaging
> outlines, and state strategy campaign information
> to try and get the ball rolling.
>
>
> To continue, according to Mueller, as a former
> Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort and
> Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a business
> associate suspected of having ties to Russian
> intelligence that involved discussing handing
> Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine. Those
> talks included the possibility of Trump providing
> a “slight push” to set the plan in motion.
> While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his
> office “did not establish” that the Trump
> campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin
> worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential
> election, Manafort’s contacts with his longtime
> Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin Kilmnik,
> may come close to a full tit for tat agreement
> between Russia and the Trump campaign.
>
> Did you even read the report?
Yawn, you have him now faggot. LMFAO
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
No Collusion
()
Date: April 18, 2019 07:20PM
Wow, you almost got him with that one!
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
right...
()
Date: April 18, 2019 08:27PM
Wordsmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> right... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > right, so the "no American colluded" means what
> > exactly?
>
>
> Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was not
> in the report.
>
> Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have found
> any evidence that President Trump or any of his
> associates conspired to collude or cooperated with
> the Russian government's attempts to interfere
> with our 2016 election. But for all intents and
> purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and
> current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act on
> behalf of the Russian government, and did supply a
> Russian agent internal polling data, messaging
> outlines, and state strategy campaign information
> to try and get the ball rolling.
>
>
> To continue, according to Mueller, as a former
> Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort and
> Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a business
> associate suspected of having ties to Russian
> intelligence that involved discussing handing
> Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine. Those
> talks included the possibility of Trump providing
> a “slight push” to set the plan in motion.
> While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his
> office “did not establish” that the Trump
> campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin
> worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential
> election, Manafort’s contacts with his longtime
> Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin Kilmnik,
> may come close to a full tit for tat agreement
> between Russia and the Trump campaign.
>
> Did you even read the report?
Right, and what exactly did manafort do for the Trump campaign??
-------------------------------------------------------
> right... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > right, so the "no American colluded" means what
> > exactly?
>
>
> Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was not
> in the report.
>
> Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have found
> any evidence that President Trump or any of his
> associates conspired to collude or cooperated with
> the Russian government's attempts to interfere
> with our 2016 election. But for all intents and
> purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and
> current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act on
> behalf of the Russian government, and did supply a
> Russian agent internal polling data, messaging
> outlines, and state strategy campaign information
> to try and get the ball rolling.
>
>
> To continue, according to Mueller, as a former
> Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort and
> Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a business
> associate suspected of having ties to Russian
> intelligence that involved discussing handing
> Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine. Those
> talks included the possibility of Trump providing
> a “slight push” to set the plan in motion.
> While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his
> office “did not establish” that the Trump
> campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin
> worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential
> election, Manafort’s contacts with his longtime
> Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin Kilmnik,
> may come close to a full tit for tat agreement
> between Russia and the Trump campaign.
>
> Did you even read the report?
Right, and what exactly did manafort do for the Trump campaign??
Re: Barr's [T]
Posted by:
Wordsmith
()
Date: April 18, 2019 08:45PM
right... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wordsmith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > right... Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > right, so the "no American colluded" means
> what
> > > exactly?
> >
> >
> > Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was
> not
> > in the report.
> >
> > Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have
> found
> > any evidence that President Trump or any of his
> > associates conspired to collude or cooperated
> with
> > the Russian government's attempts to interfere
> > with our 2016 election. But for all intents and
> > purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and
> > current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act
> on
> > behalf of the Russian government, and did supply
> a
> > Russian agent internal polling data, messaging
> > outlines, and state strategy campaign
> information
> > to try and get the ball rolling.
> >
> >
> > To continue, according to Mueller, as a former
> > Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort
> and
> > Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a
> business
> > associate suspected of having ties to Russian
> > intelligence that involved discussing handing
> > Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine.
> Those
> > talks included the possibility of Trump
> providing
> > a “slight push” to set the plan in motion.
> > While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his
> > office “did not establish” that the Trump
> > campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin
> > worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential
> > election, Manafort’s contacts with his
> longtime
> > Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin
> Kilmnik,
> > may come close to a full tit for tat agreement
> > between Russia and the Trump campaign.
> >
> > Did you even read the report?
>
>
> Right, and what exactly did manafort do for the
> Trump campaign??
He was Campaign Chairman from June to August, 2016. He shifted the party platform at the convention to be gentler on Russia over the Crimea land grab. He offered a Russian Ambassador internal polling data, messaging outlines, and specific strategy plans on the state of Michigan. He also lied to investigators to protect Trump.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wordsmith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > right... Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > right, so the "no American colluded" means
> what
> > > exactly?
> >
> >
> > Your quote came from Barr, and his wording was
> not
> > in the report.
> >
> > Special counsel Robert Mueller may not have
> found
> > any evidence that President Trump or any of his
> > associates conspired to collude or cooperated
> with
> > the Russian government's attempts to interfere
> > with our 2016 election. But for all intents and
> > purposes, former Trump campaign chairman and
> > current convicted felon Paul Manafort did act
> on
> > behalf of the Russian government, and did supply
> a
> > Russian agent internal polling data, messaging
> > outlines, and state strategy campaign
> information
> > to try and get the ball rolling.
> >
> >
> > To continue, according to Mueller, as a former
> > Trump campaign chief and assistant, Manafort
> and
> > Rick Gates, held secret meetings with a
> business
> > associate suspected of having ties to Russian
> > intelligence that involved discussing handing
> > Russia effective control of eastern Ukraine.
> Those
> > talks included the possibility of Trump
> providing
> > a “slight push” to set the plan in motion.
> > While Mueller’s long-awaited report says his
> > office “did not establish” that the Trump
> > campaign coordinated with Russia as the Kremlin
> > worked to interfere in the 2016 presidential
> > election, Manafort’s contacts with his
> longtime
> > Ukrainian business associate, Konstantin
> Kilmnik,
> > may come close to a full tit for tat agreement
> > between Russia and the Trump campaign.
> >
> > Did you even read the report?
>
>
> Right, and what exactly did manafort do for the
> Trump campaign??
He was Campaign Chairman from June to August, 2016. He shifted the party platform at the convention to be gentler on Russia over the Crimea land grab. He offered a Russian Ambassador internal polling data, messaging outlines, and specific strategy plans on the state of Michigan. He also lied to investigators to protect Trump.