It is considered common knowledge that the English were the first to firmly establish themselves in North America at Jamestown and then Plymouth in the 17th century. It is also known that the Vikings had attempted to settle in what is now known as Nova Scotia in the 14th century, but were not able to solidify their holdings. What is not widely known however is that the first Europeans to settle in North America came from the British Isles, but were not English, but in fact were Irish and Welsh.

Saint Branden of Ireland sailed across the Atlantic with groups of other Irish monks and landed somewhere in the Chesapeake Bay. Their stay in the Chesapeake region was short lived as they were constantly harassed by warriors of the Patawomeck tribe and settled further west in the mountains of West Virginia. Evidence of their presence can be found in the form of old Irish Ogham script discovered sometime in the 60's and 70's. Despite such evidence, pro historians and archaeologists who are strongly pro Anglo-Saxon downplay such evidence as a hoax.

The most surprising and less known example of pre-English settlement in the America's took place first in Alabama and then in the midwest. The Welsh Prince Madoc set sail in 1170 AD and eventually landed in Mobile Bay in Alabama. He landed there with a group of Welsh nobles and warriors and would eventually set up a number of colonies in Alabama, most notably Fort Morgan, and all the way up to Tennessee where he formed the most notable Welsh colonies in what is known as Devil's Backbone. These Welsh explorers intermixed with the indian tribe known as the Mandan people, who retained the Welsh language of which Thomas Jefferson and Lewis & Clark encountered. in 1953, the Daughter's of the American Revolution installed a plaque at Mobile Bay commemorating Prince Madoc's landing, but it was taken down by the US park service and a bitter legal battle is currently being fought over it's placement. The Anglo-Saxon dominated government of the US DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW THE TRUTH about America's history!
Attachments:

http://cwva.org/controversy/ogham_intro.html

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofWales/The-discovery-of-America-by-Welsh-Prince/


http://www.history.com/news/did-an-irish-monk-discover-america

"..or where they?"

English Motherfucker - you may think you speak it but you sure as fuck can't spell it.

Wrong, amigo.

Why do the fucking English always claim the achievements of celtic peoples as their own?

Ponce de Leon was born 300 years after prince madoc set sail

O'kelly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do the fucking English always claim the
> achievements of celtic peoples as their own?

The "English" are a mongrel race. The Celtic people did not get driven out by the Saxons, or the Romans, but interbred with them and later the Vikings and Normans.
See article below:
*************

Ancient Britons were not overrun by invading Saxons in the Dark Ages, suggests a new map based on the DNA of people from the UK and Europe.

The study, published today in Nature, provides the first strong genetic evidence of the Saxon invasion, and shows how much they interbred with the locals once they got there.

"When I first made this map I nearly fell out of my chair because what came up was this incredible pattern, and I could see that it matched lots of things that I already knew about British history, says lead author Dr Stephen Leslie, a statistical geneticist at the Murdoch Childrens Research Institute

Leslie and colleagues used a sophisticated statistical technique to analyse subtle genetic differences between over 8000 individual people across the United Kingdom and Europe.

They used protocols to make sure they were only studying DNA that was local to the area, by, for example, only taking the UK samples from people whose four grandparents were all born in the same rural area.

The researchers then clustered individuals into colour-coded groups, based only on their genetics, and were amazed to find that when they plotted the results on a map, the clusters corresponded to specific areas of the UK.

The clustering showed northern and southern English people were genetically distinct, and in some cases clusters very accurately reflected geographical borders.

"For example you could see Cornwall was separate from Devon and that that separation was almost perfectly along the county boundary," says Leslie.

While past studies of this type have been able to use genetics to tell what continent or country people come from, this is the first study to be able to pinpoint people to regions within countries, says Leslie.

"Nobody has been able to see differences on this scale before," he says.

Despite some distinct groupings, however, the researchers found most of England was genetically very similar.

"Central and southern England, along with the north-eastern coast was relatively homogenous compared to everything else," says Leslie.

"It's pretty striking we can't separate out places like East Anglia and Kent."

Saxon invasion
By comparing DNA in the United Kingdom and Europe, the researchers were able to trace the movements of people into the UK and determine the ancestry of the English.

One of the key findings, says Leslie, is that the people in the homogenous area of England shared genetic markers with those from the Saxon area of northern Germany, providing strong evidence for 5th century Saxon invasion.

"It's quite striking the genetic clustering we observe relates so closely to known historical event," he says. "It's incredibly surprising we could pull this out. Nobody has ever tried an analysis like this before."

Saxon genetic markers were not present in the Welsh and Scots, he says.

Leslie says the study helps inform an ongoing controversy over what happened to the ancient Britons when the Saxons invaded in the wake of the Romans during the Dark Ages.

"Some people speculate the Saxons completely replaced the ancient Britons, pushing them to into places such as Wales, Cornwall and Scotland," he says.

Leslie says this is supported by the recorded changes in language, place names, cereal crops, and pottery that coincided with the Saxon invasion.

However, the genetic study suggests while such cultural changes may have been imposed by those in power, everyday ancient Britons did not necessarily get displaced.

The results show the German or Saxon-like ancestry of the homogenous area of England is only between 10 and 40 per cent, which suggests the invaders interbred with the locals.

"That answers an age-old question," says Leslie.

Roman legacy
Leslie says the part of England invaded by Saxons was also previously the most heavily Romanised part of England.

The researchers speculate that the Romans developed a culture that was much more interconnected so that when the Saxons invaded, there were no barriers to the flow of people from one area to another.

"We know the Saxons had independent kingdoms but we don't see any of these," says Leslie.

"We speculate that that may well be because of the breakdown of geographic barriers."

Leslie emphasises people do not need to move far for DNA to spread a long way.

"All it takes is the girl in one village to marry the boy in the next village and for them to have a child who marries the girl in the next village and over generations DNA just moves," he says.

The study also challenges the notion of there being a single Celtic Britain.

"In fact the so-called Celtic parts of the UK -- Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Cornwall -- are some of the most different from each other genetically," says Leslie.

His study showed those in the Orkney Islands are the most genetically distinct group in the UK, with clear genetic roots in Norway -- which is not surprising given they are a small isolated population that was once taken over by the Norwegian Vikings.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/18/4200057.htm

This is not news, you douche. The Norse at L'anse aux Meadows, the Spanish in Florida and California, and oh by the way did you know Mexico is in North America? Kill yourself.

Jesus walked among the indigenous people of North America and taught them Christian values long before the heathen Vikings landed here.

Say old chaps, who cares who first landed in your dreadful land? Nobody bloody well gives damn. cheerio!

O'kelly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do the fucking English always claim the
> achievements of celtic peoples as their own?


you're more than welcome to take full credit for 'Riverdance'.

> the Mandan people, who retained the Welsh language
> of which Thomas Jefferson and Lewis & Clark encountered.


The Mandan tribe did not speak or "retain" the Welsh language. Lewis, Clark, and a few other members of their party kept good documentation and records of their journey. They lived among the Mandans for months, writing plenty of detailed journals and daily descriptions of their time spent there, no one ever said the indians were speaking welsh. The Mandans had been trading with the French and British outposts in Canada for decades prior, so they probably understood some english words, and Sacagawea was married to a French trader and knew some basic french.

The idea that Welsh explorers somehow existed in the far reaches of North America was a fairly common urban legend that floated around back then though. Even Jefferson thought it might be true and instructed Meriweather Lewis to search for signs of it. But it was a ridiculous myth, sort of like the spanish explorers believing there was a "city of gold" somewhere in the south west or a "fountain of youth" in Florida. There were plenty of junk legends in society back then, including the idea that there was easy river access from the Mississippi all the way to the mouth of the Columbia river on the pacific.

Charbonneau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > the Mandan people, who retained the Welsh
> language
> > of which Thomas Jefferson and Lewis & Clark
> encountered.
>
>
> The Mandan tribe did not speak or "retain" the
> Welsh language. Lewis, Clark, and a few other
> members of their party kept good documentation and
> records of their journey. They lived among the
> Mandans for months, writing plenty of detailed
> journals and daily descriptions of their time
> spent there, no one ever said the indians were
> speaking welsh. The Mandans had been trading
> with the French and British outposts in Canada for
> decades prior, so they probably understood some
> english words, and Sacagawea was married to a
> French trader and knew some basic french.
>
> The idea that Welsh explorers somehow existed in
> the far reaches of North America was a fairly
> common urban legend that floated around back then
> though. Even Jefferson thought it might be true
> and instructed Meriweather Lewis to search for
> signs of it. But it was a ridiculous myth, sort
> of like the spanish explorers believing there was
> a "city of gold" somewhere in the south west or a
> "fountain of youth" in Florida. There were plenty
> of junk legends in society back then, including
> the idea that there was easy river access from the
> Mississippi all the way to the mouth of the
> Columbia river on the pacific.


How can you make such an assertion when there is no proof refuting such a claim? It isn't probable but it is certainly possible. Back in the seventies they did an experimental voyage from Ireland to North America on an Irish Currach that proved that such a journey in that age was possible.

McGregor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can you make such an assertion when there is
> no proof refuting such a claim?

Because there's literally nothing at all to substantiate the story that some guy named Madoc arrived in North America more than 300 years before Columbus. He's a character from an ancient poem. The story of his landing didn't even appear, conveniently, until after the English began to colonize America.

At the very least, Lewis and Clark never told anyone at all that the Mandans retained Welsh as a language or that they found clues to support the Madoc myth. That would have been a very odd thing to omit since they really did have instructions to be on the lookout for signs of it. It also would have been a much-needed publicity boost, given that their mission to find a water route to the Pacific failed.

knowing the truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Saint Branden of Ireland sailed across the
> Atlantic with groups of other Irish monks and
> landed somewhere in the Chesapeake Bay.



Way to misspell St. Brendan's name TWO ways.

there is a reason English colonies are in the history books - because they were successful and created the society we live in now

no one gives a shit who floated up to our shores first

and no one claims the English were first

At various times throughout pre-Columbian times people from Europe, Africa, Asia or Polynesia made it to the shores of the Americas. Some probably returned to where they came from. Some died at sea trying to return, and some stayed and died here. We know for a fact that Vikings made it to the shores of Canada, and may have went as far south as New England before William conquered England. The Chinese may or may not have made it here in the early 1400s. None of this really matters though, because except for certain Innuits who went back and forth between east Russia and Alaska those visits failed to establish an ongoing connection between the Americas and the rest of the world.

Whether Madog existed and whether he made it to the Americas is something not proven. What is certain though is after his second alleged voyage there was no further connections between the Welsh colonists and the Princes of Gwynned. It was also after the first Viking visits and attempted settlement, so there can be no claim that it was first.

Columbus wasn't trying to make it here, and he probably had no idea what he had found. However his exploration started a chain of events which established permanent connections, at first between the Iberian kingdoms and the Americas, and later by various northern European states and the Americas, which ultimately lead to the integration of the Americas into the wider world. It was this connection and not that he was the first Eurasian to make it to the Americas that is why Columbus's "discovery" of the New world mattered.

There are also theories of an ongoing Bronze Age copper trade, with copper from mines as far as northern Michigan being smelted into ingots and shipped to the Mediterranean.

Copper traders Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are also theories of an ongoing Bronze Age
> copper trade, with copper from mines as far as
> northern Michigan being smelted into ingots and
> shipped to the Mediterranean.

those aren't really theories though, they're blogs written by people who played too much D&D when they were kids.

Bronze Age in the mediterranean pre-dates things like the Roman and Greek civilizations. If a trading network that spanned 5-6 thousand miles existed back then, you'd expect someone would have written about it somewhere. Even the Egyptians kept copious records of mundane stuff like crop yields and Nile flood stages, but mysteriously nothing about a copper ingot producing culture that sailed across an ocean they scarcely knew existed.

Yeah that Great Lakes Copper is some straightup bullshit.

It's the Jews fault.

http://www.nativeamericanhere.com/uncategorized/dna-scientists-claim-that-cherokees-are-from-the-middle-east/3/

DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle East.

The laboratory immediately stumbled into a scientific hornet’s nest. That Cherokee princess in someone’s genealogy was most likely a Jewish or North African princess. Its scientists have labeled the Cherokees not as Native Americans, but as a Middle Eastern-North African population. Cherokees have high levels of test markers associated with the Berbers, native Egyptians, Turks, Lebanese, Hebrews and Mesopotamians. Genetically, they are more Jewish than the typical American Jew of European ancestry. So-called “full-blooded” Cherokees have high levels of European DNA and a trace of Asiatic (Native American) DNA. Their skin color and facial features are primarily Semitic in origin, not Native American.

I knew it!

The Jews are at the bottom of everything!

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's the Jews fault.
>
> http://www.nativeamericanhere.com/uncategorized/dn
> a-scientists-claim-that-cherokees-are-from-the-mid
> dle-east/3/
>
> DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the
> Middle East.
>
> The laboratory immediately stumbled into a
> scientific hornet’s nest. That Cherokee princess
> in someone’s genealogy was most likely a Jewish
> or North African princess. Its scientists have
> labeled the Cherokees not as Native Americans, but
> as a Middle Eastern-North African population.
> Cherokees have high levels of test markers
> associated with the Berbers, native Egyptians,
> Turks, Lebanese, Hebrews and Mesopotamians.
> Genetically, they are more Jewish than the typical
> American Jew of European ancestry. So-called
> “full-blooded” Cherokees have high levels of
> European DNA and a trace of Asiatic (Native
> American) DNA. Their skin color and facial
> features are primarily Semitic in origin, not
> Native American.

The Mormons were right!

BEH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I knew it!
>
> The Jews are at the bottom of everything!


Yes, we are. We maintain the earth's rotation.
Attachments:

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's the Jews fault.
>
> http://www.nativeamericanhere.com/uncategorized/dn
> a-scientists-claim-that-cherokees-are-from-the-mid
> dle-east/3/
>
> DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the
> Middle East.
>
> The laboratory immediately stumbled into a
> scientific hornet’s nest. That Cherokee princess
> in someone’s genealogy was most likely a Jewish
> or North African princess. Its scientists have
> labeled the Cherokees not as Native Americans, but
> as a Middle Eastern-North African population.
> Cherokees have high levels of test markers
> associated with the Berbers, native Egyptians,
> Turks, Lebanese, Hebrews and Mesopotamians.
> Genetically, they are more Jewish than the typical
> American Jew of European ancestry. So-called
> “full-blooded” Cherokees have high levels of
> European DNA and a trace of Asiatic (Native
> American) DNA. Their skin color and facial
> features are primarily Semitic in origin, not
> Native American.


If i recall correctly, Meade Skelton is a direct descendant of the Cherokee people and he is very respected by their tribal elders. Meade is very proud of his Cherokee heritage.

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The laboratory immediately stumbled into a
> scientific hornet’s nest. That Cherokee princess
> in someone’s genealogy was most likely a Jewish
> or North African princess.

Many members of eastern U.S. tribes are heavily mongrelized today. Tribal customs of marrying female captives, integrating worthy captive males and looser expectations of marital fidelity among females, coupled with major demographic hits from European diseases have left many supposed Native Americans having more European or African DNA than Native American DNA. For southern tribes who had contact with the Spanish it is not surprising that non-Native American DNA would include DNA of Mediterranean origins.

The stuff they are teaching kids in school today about our history is fake news. OP's assertions are true. The Irish and Welsh were here first.

freqgt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The stuff they are teaching kids in school today
> about our history is fake news. OP's assertions
> are true. The Irish and Welsh were here first.

That's a total crock of shit.

The Vikings were the first Europeans to land in North America and it was already inhabited by nomadic tribes from coast to coast - tribes that had been here for hundreds of thousands of years after crossing over from Siberia across the North Sea land bridge.

Republicans have done their best to squelch teaching science, civics, and real history in American schools. They think the earth is 5,000 years old because they are fucking stoopid!

#1 probably a drunken Irish lie to fill in their butt hurt

#2 a short lived stay is not colonizing successfully

#3 irish were slaves in the new world - and so were italians for a while

anyone with irish blood should be blood red rage mad that mexicans are just walking into the country and getting government jobs simply because they "are loyal to a political party" and "understand the non-free world system of loyalty and over-throws of politics" (since they do allot of that)

Don’t let the libs fool you. The Earth is round, the Phoenicians were the first to land in America and the Welsh were the first to establish settlements here.

knowing the truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> currently being fought over it's placement. The
> Anglo-Saxon dominated government of the US DOESN'T
> WANT YOU TO KNOW THE TRUTH about America's
> history!

Here is a prime example of what is wrong with this and most conspiracy theories.

A lame ass, unfounded and plain stupid assertion that "insert whatever sounds good here" doesn't want you to know the truth.

Really. Who and I mean who gives a fucking rats ass whether Welsh or English explorers landed first in North America? Answer: no one.

If Trump had won re-election, this sort of nonsense would soon be in our kid's text books. Thank God he lost.