It's so obvious that RestonLass is RV.

Same grammar usage and overt attempt to validate his own position. He even threw in a dissent (see above) as to try not to make it obvious.

I guess that's what you got to do when no one agrees with you and you're Bat Shit Crazy.

So what, at least it isn't some random anon poster/troller who can only post "batshit crazy" all over the forum.

What's up with you guys and anon posters? So what they're anon? Argue the points. It's like saying because you're 6'4 you don't deserve to debate. Get over it.

Registered RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's so obvious that RestonLass is RV.
>
> Same grammar usage and overt attempt to validate
> his own position. He even threw in a dissent (see
> above) as to try not to make it obvious.
>
> I guess that's what you got to do when no one
> agrees with you and you're Bat Shit Crazy.


I can assure you I am not RV, but I do thank you for the compliment.

lame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's up with you guys and anon posters? So what
> they're anon? Argue the points. It's like saying
> because you're 6'4 you don't deserve to debate.
> Get over it.


Just a little FYI:

Posters with screen names in blue are registered

Posters with screen names in black are trolls

lame, you are a troll

RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A work visa is different than legal status RV.
>
> Legal status is a permanent visa (green card)
> issued by immigration or a blanket amnesty - path
> to citizenship granted by Congress. Both would be
> eligible for benefits, though some have a 5-year
> waiting period.
>
> A work visa is tied to an employer who is usually
> required to sponsor. All benefits and services
> are provided by the employer. They are legally
> authorized to work in the country, but they are
> not entitled to any government funded benefits.
>
> I missed your articles, can you tell me where to
> find them?

RestonLass - I can't remember the thread, but I was talking to the fact that Obama has been pushing for Congress to move on immigration changes as well. If you note from his speeches lately he has been very specific - the current legislation notes that no one in the US "unlawfully" will be covered under the new health care changes. He was very careful with that term.

I will also point out, that under current US case law (based on the Equal Protection Clause), if the law provides a benefit to ALL citizens of the US, they must also provide that benefit or protection to all people in the country, not just the citizens.

The 14th Amendment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Quote

The amendment provides a broad definition of citizenship, overruling the decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which had excluded slaves, and their descendants, from possessing Constitutional rights; this was used in the mid-20th century to dismantle racial segregation in the United States, as in Brown v. Board of Education (1954). Its Due Process Clause has been used to apply most of the Bill of Rights to the states. This clause has also been used to recognize: (1) substantive due process rights, such as parental and marriage rights; and (2) procedural due process rights requiring that certain steps, such as a hearing, be followed before a person's "life, liberty, or property" can be taken away. The amendment's Equal Protection Clause requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all people within their jurisdictions. The amendment also includes a number of clauses dealing with the Confederacy and its officials.
...

The Equal Protection Clause has been invoked in a number of circumstances similar ot this. So if the US were to provide health care to all citizens, then by extension they could not exclude coverage to anyone - including illegal aliens.

http://salempress.com/store/samples/us_immigration_history/us_immigration_naturalization.htm

But I also believe they will do an end run in the immigration reform they are working on that will grant them "lawful" status in the country. A work VISA is being in the country "lawfully", so if they grant them temporary work VISA status, that will most likely meet the requirement.

Senate Democrats Address Immigration
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR2009062402244.html

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The Equal Protection Clause has been invoked in a
> number of circumstances similar ot this. So if the
> US were to provide health care to all citizens,
> then by extension they could not exclude coverage
> to anyone - including illegal aliens.
>
> http://salempress.com/store/samples/us_immigration
> _history/us_immigration_naturalization.htm
>
> But I also believe they will do an end run in the
> immigration reform they are working on that will
> grant them "lawful" status in the country. A work
> VISA is being in the country "lawfully", so if
> they grant them temporary work VISA status, that
> will most likely meet the requirement.
>
> Senate Democrats Address Immigration
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2009/06/24/AR2009062402244.html

I think you are trying to over-simplify which blurs the lines. Immigration laws are separate and apart and the laws are clear that temporary GUEST VISA workers are NOT entitled to the same benefits as citizens or legal residents.

There was a discussion about this very topic about a week ago, differentiating between temporary GUEST visa workers and long term legal residents. Both are lawfully in the US, but their rights are very different.

GUEST VISA workers rights, while "lawfully" working in the US, are spelled out in the Immigation laws. In all instances, Guest Visas are assigned to an employer or sponsor who agrees to support the guest while in their charge.

At this time, there is no middle of the road, either one is a GUEST VISA worker, or they are not in the country lawfully. The only way your concept of "lawful status" would work is if Congress changes the laws to allow anyone who comes to the US to work, without a visa, is automatically entitled to the same rights and benefits as a citizen after "flying under the radar" for a specific period of time.

Basically, this is what is happening today, resulting from a failure to enforce our laws. If it were a non-issue Americans would not be divided on this hot-button issue and such a law might pass through.

But that isn't the case. It IS a hot-button issue; Obama and Congress will do their best to circumvent immigration laws by rewarding illegal aliens not only with a path to citizenship but a key to the Medicaid castle. The only way they can do this is with yet another amnesty and I really don't think that is going to happen.

It was a good theory though RV



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2009 07:49AM by RestonLass.

Obama or congress won't pass Amnesty; no one would stand for it. They won't deport everyone either. No one would stand for that. I stand by the decision of pay a fine and go to the end of the line.

duma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obama or congress won't pass Amnesty; no one would
> stand for it. They won't deport everyone either.
> No one would stand for that. I stand by the
> decision of pay a fine and go to the end of the
> line.

Amnesty is amnesty no matter how it is titled. Path to citizenship, Pay a fine and go to the end of the line, or any other title - it's all amnesty. No one can pay a fine and go to the end of the line until their status is changed to legal = granted amnesty.

There is no need to deport any of them. Simply enforcing our laws by cutting off their jobs and benefits and services (including to their children) will kill any incentive to remain and they will leave on their own dime.

As an FYI: Our laws are quite clear that illegal aliens may not apply for, or receive benefits for, tax funded programs - for themselves or on behalf of their citizen babies. Nor can minors apply for, or receive benefits for, tax funded programs.

Simply enforcing existing laws will result in a mass migration "out of town." It worked in AZ and if implemented nationwide, it WILL work without spending a dime, and in the process cut spending by billions of dollars a year.

I see by the definition of Amnesty you are correct since the "illegal" portion is basically obliterated. What I meant to mean was that it wouldn't be overnight (which I think many inflamed Americans believe). I think obtaining legal residency is on the order of 5-10yrs these days (YMMV depending upon one's lawyer or connections)

duma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see by the definition of Amnesty you are correct
> since the "illegal" portion is basically
> obliterated. What I meant to mean was that it
> wouldn't be overnight (which I think many inflamed
> Americans believe). I think obtaining legal
> residency is on the order of 5-10yrs these days
> (YMMV depending upon one's lawyer or connections)

You are either a legal resident, or you are not.

If you are implying that they return home and apply for a permanent resident visa to re-enter legally, than I understand where you're coming from.

If they remain in the country and their status is reassigned as legal - it IS an overnight thing, also known as amnesty. This is EXACTLY what most Americans do NOT want.

Most Americans are angry that illegal aliens have been living in the country and bellying up to the buffet banquet table and this should not be rewarded with amnesty.

Granting amnesty to illegal aliens who have been fleecing Americans for years and rewarding them with the key to the Medicaid castle and H&HS is no different than the bank and auto industry bailouts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2009 08:30AM by RestonLass.

I was going by this definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty

Amnesty (from the Greek amnestia, oblivion) is a legislative or executive act by which a state restores those who may have been guilty of an offense against it to the positions of innocent persons.

The fact that they were "illegal" to begin with puts them in that bucket. So Amnesty may be unavoidable provided they aren't deported (though technically I'm not sure deportation alone remove the Amnesty definition unless that's already written into law). It's the time duration for becoming a legalized citizen that's, in my mind, the actual issue (overnight or 5-10yrs)

Unfortunately, the "Amnesty may be unavoidable" excuse has been used seven times during the past two decades, and it's worn thin.

The only thing it has accomplished is allowing another build up of illegals to be granted amnesty when the numbers become overwhelming and Congress doesn't know what to do with them - that won't affect being re-elected.

RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RV, you're presuming Congress will pass a bill to
> grant amnesty for 12-16 million illegal aliens.
> It may be a just a little too soon to say "when"
> rather than "if."
>
> It is a very real probability that Americans are
> for some government control to protect their right
> to unrestricted health insurnce at a reasonable
> cost.
>
> I'm not so sure they are ready to give all those
> illegal aliens the key to the Medicaid Castle,
> knowing that Main Street Americans will be footing
> the bill. I'm also not so sure the argument that
> they'll be going to the ERs if we don't will fly
> either.


You were saying....?

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

Quote

...
Mr. Obama said legalizing illegal immigrants is a way to take the sting out of the entire issue.

But Republicans said by pushing to legalize illegal immigrants, Mr. Obama is signaling that those here illegally eventually will get access to taxpayer-funded benefits.

Still, the push to pass a legalization bill is beginning to gain steam, even as advocates fret that the White House is moving too slowly.

On Thursday, Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez, Illinois Democrat and an outspoken advocate for legalization, agreed to take leadership in writing a new, more generous bill.

"We simply cannot wait any longer for a bill that keeps our families together, protects our workers and allows a pathway to legalization for those who have earned it," Mr. Gutierrez said. "Saying immigration is a priority for this administration or this Congress is not the same as seeing tangible action, and the longer we wait, the more every single piece of legislation we debate will be obstructed by our failure to pass comprehensive reform."

Bah dum bum - ching!

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

People who say "Bah dum bum - ching!" to accentuate a point, or even an article from the Washington Times of all the lowly, subscribed rags available, are nerdy douchebags.

Just saying.

You Are So NERDCORE, Man!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People who say "Bah dum bum - ching!" to
> accentuate a point, or even an article from the
> Washington Times of all the lowly, subscribed rags
> available, are nerdy douchebags.
>
> Just saying.

So are anonymous trolls.

Just saying.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

You're the one who said "Bah dum bum - ching!" and quoted the Washington Times like it was the Constitution.

Do you hang out in Thailand or Cambodia for the summer?

Registered Pedophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're the one who said "Bah dum bum - ching!" and
> quoted the Washington Times like it was the
> Constitution.
>
> Do you hang out in Thailand or Cambodia for the
> summer?

You are the one who loves talking about pederasty and fags - project much?

Do you hang out in Thailand or Cambodia for the summer?

So, I take it that's a resounding "yes." Thanks for the confirmation.

Talking to yourself again?

Glad you can speak for yourself because you aren't speaking for me.

.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Attachments:

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!

Nevermind, I was just watching Glenn Beck.

Now I'm whacking off to Registered Voter reading my post.

Yeah, thanks for sharing...

Glad I could bring some joy to your day - just try to miss the keyboard... oh wait, nm.

I'll leave you with this PSA
.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Attachments:

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG !!!!!!!!!!! RV is Sir-Post-A-Lot!

I forgot to mention that I become sir-wanks-a-lot everytime I see his posts! That's just how gay I am.

I can't wait for the next gay Republican's club meeting. Does anyone have the date and time for the next one?

Yeah, it's gay costume night down at Bridges tonight. Come in your skimpiest drag outfit, everyone will be there.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

This thread needs an exorcism.

RV, what's up with all the trolls that follow you around in every thread you post in?

Vince wannabees, with a hard on for recognition.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Joe Wilson is the bravest man in Congress. His birthday should be a national holiday.

Oh, how i wish for the chance to take big Joe Wilson into my mouth, and swallow his prodigious seed. You betcha.

Registered Voterz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, how i wish for the chance to take big Joe
> Wilson into my mouth, and swallow his prodigious
> seed. You betcha.

Yeah, I see you are ready for action.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2009 11:24PM by Registered Voter.
Attachments:

Dont let my alter-ego deter you, Big Joe. Hammer my throat like you did last week, you big hunk of smoldering SC studliness.

Registered Voterz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont let my alter-ego deter you, Big Joe. Hammer
> my throat like you did last week, you big hunk of
> smoldering SC studliness.


I'll see you at Barney Frank's house of prostitution aka Barney Frank's big House of gay sex origies for cash............

Registered Voterz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voterz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dont let my alter-ego deter you, Big Joe.
> Hammer
> > my throat like you did last week, you big hunk
> of
> > smoldering SC studliness.
>
>
> I'll see you at Barney Frank's house of
> prostitution aka Barney Frank's big House of gay
> sex origies for cash............

did I mention I am a big gay democrat? just in case it isn't obvious.....teehee

fairfaxdude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow....$357,000 with 14 months to go.
>
> Buh Bye, Joe!


How'd that work out for you, tardalicious?

Buh, Bye, Joe! Really?

fairfaxdude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > give it up Wrote:
>
>
> > > Hope it was worth his seat in congress.
>
> > I'm sure the Dem opposing him will see an
> influx
> > of campaign donations from outside the state
> over
> > the next few days.
>
> Word is out this morning that his opponent in the
> 2010 elections received $100,000 in donations
> overnight. O-V-E-R-N-I-G-H-T !!!!!!
>
> I'd say he's massively fucked.

Yeah, sure looks that way, D-U-M-B-A-S-S