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Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: August 20, 2009 12:31AM

discuss.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 20, 2009 01:00AM

I just assumed Nancy would be the pitcher in that relationship.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: bloody blisters ()
Date: August 20, 2009 01:18AM

and if they had a baby.....
Attachments:
baby_in_muslin_wrap_400 copy.jpg

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 20, 2009 01:44AM

bloody blisters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and if they had a baby.....


the name of that image is "baby_in_muslin_wrap".
Attachments:
political-pictures-barack-obama-half-breed-muslin-cloth.jpg

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: bloody blisters ()
Date: August 20, 2009 01:47AM

ha! i didnt even catch that. i was feeling too lazy to rename it and decided to go with an original name on a picture, i guess i chose the winner.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: August 20, 2009 06:42AM

Man that thing is uggglly.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Date: August 20, 2009 06:42AM

I just think it is funny that Frank called out that nutcase at the town hall meeting (you know, the one who called a Jew a Nazi). Personally, I think more members of Congress need to do that.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: August 20, 2009 06:50AM

For all is failings, Barney comes from a different era in politics where you're not afraid to debate.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 20, 2009 08:47AM

Barney is the smartest man in Congress.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: RestonLass ()
Date: August 20, 2009 09:57AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just think it is funny that Frank called out
> that nutcase at the town hall meeting (you know,
> the one who called a Jew a Nazi). Personally, I
> think more members of Congress need to do that.


Barney Frank was totally out of line. Others whose causes were less nutty have also been called out by Congressmen and women.

Congressmen and women are states persons, representing America and its voters. To deliberately publicly humiliate and verbally eviscerate any constituent is reprehensible and deserving of a reprimand at the very least.

Hillary lost her cool while on a foreign assignment. Frank and others are losing their cool at Town Hall Meetings. They are out of control.

This is what happens when you play it off the cuff (with nothing of substance to back it up) thinking - hoping - Americans will be stupid enough to attend the meeting with stars in their eyes, accepting as gospel anything they say.

It ain't happening. Obama may have convinced Congress that American voters were in the Plantation Thinking Mode - but Americans didn't get the email or deleted it as SPAM.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 20, 2009 10:05AM

Fuck that, I think what Barney did to this stupid cunt is great, and I commend any congressmen or senator, Republican or Democrat, who has the balls to stand up to these nimrods. It's not out of control. What's out of control are jackasses who angrily shout dumb shit about Nazi's at a healthcare debate. Fuck them. It's about time politicians start putting them in their place and send these stupid fucking hicks back to the bottom of the barrel where they belong.


RestonLass Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Barney Frank was totally out of line. Others
> whose causes were less nutty have also been called
> out by Congressmen and women.
>
> Congressmen and women are states persons,
> representing America and its voters. To
> deliberately publicly humiliate and verbally
> eviscerate any constituent is reprehensible and
> deserving of a reprimand at the very least.
>
> Hillary lost her cool while on a foreign
> assignment. Frank and others are losing their
> cool at Town Hall Meetings. They are out of
> control.
>
> This is what happens when you play it off the cuff
> (with nothing of substance to back it up) thinking
> - hoping - Americans will be stupid enough to
> attend the meeting with stars in their eyes,
> accepting as gospel anything they say.
>
> It ain't happening. Obama may have convinced
> Congress that American voters were in the
> Plantation Thinking Mode - but Americans didn't
> get the email or deleted it as SPAM.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Date: August 20, 2009 10:06AM

RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Barney Frank was totally out of line. Others
> whose causes were less nutty have also been called
> out by Congressmen and women.

Its not out of line for Frank to correct a blatant attempt at misinformation. What was out of line was this nutcase claiming that Frank, a Jew, was supporting a Nazi-like program.

>
> Congressmen and women are states persons,
> representing America and its voters. To
> deliberately publicly humiliate and verbally
> eviscerate any constituent is reprehensible and
> deserving of a reprimand at the very least.
>

The woman humiliated herself. He merely pointed out that she was wrong and why she was wrong.

> Hillary lost her cool while on a foreign
> assignment. Frank and others are losing their
> cool at Town Hall Meetings. They are out of
> control.
>

No. The Rightwing nutcases who are bringing weapons to town hall meetings are out of control.

> This is what happens when you play it off the cuff
> (with nothing of substance to back it up) thinking
> - hoping - Americans will be stupid enough to
> attend the meeting with stars in their eyes,
> accepting as gospel anything they say.
>

The Democrats failure was to have a Plan B for the recess. The Democrats failed to have a concrete reform bill in place, so the Republicans have been filling in the blanks with ridiculous claims of "death panels" and "socialized medicine."

> It ain't happening. Obama may have convinced
> Congress that American voters were in the
> Plantation Thinking Mode - but Americans didn't
> get the email or deleted it as SPAM.


It is happening. The Democrats are going to come back after the recess and pass health care reform with a public option and no Republican input.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 10:23AM

I have to say, shouting down your elected representative for no good reason is pretty stupid. At the same time I don't want my representative lecturing to me on why he is going to ignore the legitimate concerns of his constituents. I am not totally convinced though that the woman he called out wasn't a plant of some sort. I wouldn't put it past Democratic operatives to send in people that make comments more over the edge than usual (no proof, but certainly nothing beyond the bounds of reality based on how political operatives on both sides work). No one I know goes around calling these guys Nazis - but then again there was a lot of that going on when Bush was in office too, and strangely enough, he wasn't advocating for extinction of large numbers of people either so...

There are certainly a lot of left wing conspiracies on that issue though - those comments and irrelevant correlations flooded every liberal blog site in the world. I attribute a lot of left anger that still goes back to the 2000 election that was fairly/unfairly won depending on your viewpoint. Hillary still uses it today to point out how "corrupt" our politics and elections can be.

My main issue at this point, with ALL those folks that are elected to go to Washington... seriously, we did not elect them to be royalty, or rock stars. They insulate themselves up there so thoroughly sometimes I think they forget what it is to be human like the rest of the folks in the their districts. They certainly don't seem to believe they can be held accountable - other than by how much money they can get allocated to be spent in their home districts. Even the public will allow themselves to be bribed.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: gop "strategery" not working ()
Date: August 20, 2009 10:31AM

fuck yeah and +1000 to Meep and WTL

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 20, 2009 10:32AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wasn't a plant of some sort. I wouldn't put it past Democratic
> operatives to send in people that make comments more over the edge than usual


Alot of the stuff I've seen is so mind-numbingly stupid, I too have thought it's got to be some sort of false-flag op from some liberal group. It's really that dumb. I don't believe it is, but it certainly makes me wonder.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Date: August 20, 2009 10:49AM

gop "strategery" not working Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuck yeah and +1000 to Meep and WTL


I believe that was is happening is that between the town halls and the talk about dropping the public option, the Democratic base is becoming galvanized. I think the Dem members are going to buck up and push something through.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 10:55AM

Well, if they do I think we will find out just how many moderates (and I know a lot of people that voted for Obama but are absolutely beside themselves with what has been going on) are "secretly" supporting their agenda.

I know people voted for change, but I think they are getting a lot more change then they really expected. I have a feeling that it will lead to another drastic "change" in 2010. My opinion, but pretty valid I believe. So keep on cheering! :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2009 01:21PM by Registered Voter.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Date: August 20, 2009 10:58AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, if they do I think we will find out just how
> many moderates (and I know a lot of people that
> voted for Obama but are absolutely beside
> themselves with what has been going on) are
> "secretly" supporting their agenda.
>
> I know people voted for change, but I think they
> are getting a lot more change then they really
> expected. I have a feeling that it will lead to
> another drastic "change" in 2010. My opinion, but
> pretty valid I believe. So keep on cheering! :)


If the economy is humming along by November 2010, the Republicans won't be able to do shit. It really comes down to that.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Fruppie ()
Date: August 20, 2009 12:04PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barney is the smartest man in Congress.

That's stupid.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 20, 2009 12:22PM

Obama..for better or worse is loosing the progressive "energy". Of course we may not have any options in the 2012 election but to vote for him..but you wont see the enthusiasm factor. If radical rightrepublicans can get over the fact that Mitt Romney isnt a christian they may be able generate some support for him..and steal some blue dog demokrat away from Obama.

RV..any "democrat" you know that doesnt support a single payer option is either uneducated or a republican in sheps clothing. Anyone calling themselves ademocrat had to know that this was an issue that was going to be pushed during the medical debate.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 04:18PM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:

> If the economy is humming along by November 2010,
> the Republicans won't be able to do shit. It
> really comes down to that.

If the economy is going gangbusters, then yeah, it might be hard for Republicans. I still see 5yr arms and commercial real estate in our future so ... we'll see on that one.

I think at this point the Dems have a reached a damned if you do, damned if you don't moment.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/08/obama-ally-dem-majority-is-history-if-health-reform-fails.html
Quote

A top Obama ally predicted Wednesday in an interview with ABC News that Democrats will lose their congressional majority in next year's midterm elections if they fail to put a health-care reform bill on President Obama's desk.

"I think we're talking losing control of Congress," said Andy Stern, the president of the Service Employees International Union. "[The failure of health-care reform] would totally empower Republicans to kill all change."

"It's hard to imagine the Democrats convincing the public that Republicans are to blame for health-care reform going down when the Democrats have such large majorities," he added. "After last year's promise of change, voters will start feeling buyer's remorse."
...

And I heard Obama said on his radio interview today that it is unfortunate or something that the Republicans don't want to become engaged on the issue. Lol. It is fine for him to say they were evidently gearing up to make sure it fails - but lets not lose sight of the fact that their (Dems) ORIGINAL intent was to pass health insurance/care reform without any (to a little as possible) Republican input in the first place. So it is kind of laughable that he wants to play this off as their not wanting to work together on this and that somehow that is why he must forge ahead without them.

I still am amazed sometimes what politicians can manage to say with a straight face. I have seen it on both sides, but the Dems are definitely masters of the art.

They may push health care reform through, they may not - at this point I think they have really damaged themselves and hopefully their roll of the dice on a better economy by the 2010 elections will pay off. Doubtful, but we'll see.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 04:26PM

It took me a while to figure out what SEIU's interest in all this was. Then it dawned on me, they are one of the health care worker Unions. They look to benefit greatly from this legislation if it came to a single payer option. And this guy Andy Stern is not happy with folks voting in the leadership...

December 2008 - Boycott Prevails in Sham SEIU Vote; Lawmakers and Advocates Join Healthcare Workers in Opposing Forced Union Merger
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-1/Boycott-Prevails-in-Sham-SEIU-Vote-3B-Lawmakers-and-Advocates-Join-Healthcare-Workers-in-Opposing-Forced-Union-Merger-32008-1/
Quote

...
"We need a union that truly represents us and gives us a voice to advocate for our patients," said Mell Garcia, a medical assistant at Kaiser Permanente-Hayward and an elected rank-and-file vice president of United Healthcare Workers (UHW). "We boycotted the election because both options on the ballot would mean the end of healthcare unions that are accountable to healthcare workers. While SEIU President Andy Stern advocates a free choice for workers across the country to become union members, he's denying a free choice to SEIU members in California."

The forced merger would result in the new union's leaders being appointed by SEIU President Andy Stern
...

Hmm...

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 05:24PM

And I am not sure what this is about.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/08/19/will-waxman-stupak-be-the-new-dingell-stupak/

Letter to Insurers:
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/waxmanletter20090818.pdf

I suppose they can all just say no huh? I don't know that Waxman really has any right to ask for this information, especially down to the specific individual and compensation and such. I imagine anything that they are required to produce the government would already have access to via the IRS or FTC disclosures.

I mean I am sure it is so they can look into excesses paid to folks - but can't they do that without specific names? Just ask for the number of folks compensated and an average?

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 20, 2009 07:02PM

It is obvious to almost everyone that the republicans have all taken the smae poison pill to oppose anything and everything Obama tries to do. To do otherwise would subject them to the ridicule of the republican leader...Limbaugh..the drug addict.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Date: August 20, 2009 07:06PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is obvious to almost everyone that the
> republicans have all taken the smae poison pill to
> oppose anything and everything Obama tries to do.
> To do otherwise would subject them to the ridicule
> of the republican leader...Limbaugh..the drug
> addict.



I AM A COMPUTER SCIENCE MAJOR AT STRAYER ONLINE UNIVERSITY AND I'M HERE TO TELL YOU THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 11:27PM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> If the economy is humming along by November 2010,
> the Republicans won't be able to do shit. It
> really comes down to that.

I am not seeing a miracle turn around here.

Mounting joblessness fuels US housing crisis
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4f8283a8-8da3-11de-93df-00144feabdc0.html
Quote

...
The percentage of loans that were in foreclosure or at least one payment past due rose to 13.16 per cent, the highest increase since the MBA began keeping records in 1972 and a jump of more than a percentage point since the first quarter.

Jay Brinkmann, chief economist at the MBA, said signs were growing that mortgage performance is being affected more by unemployment than by the structure of risky home loans, indicating a new stage in the foreclosure crisis that may not be easily addressed by government loan modification programmes.
...

What rebound? Foreclosures rise as jobs and income drop
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/74106.html
Quote

...
The Making Home Affordable effort, however, is geared toward borrowers who have jobs and income. The increased rate of delinquency and foreclosure on prime fixed-rate loans reflects massive job losses occurring nationwide. Workers losing jobs won't qualify for housing help.

"The reason people are defaulting on these (loans) is they simply don't have income, and there aren't any loan modification programs for someone who does not have income," said Rick Sharga, the vice president of the Irvine, Calif., firm RealtyTrac, which specializes in foreclosure research.

The trend will grow worse.

"The rising levels of unemployment will probably, over the next nine to 12 months, become the primary impetus for foreclosure activity," Sharga said. "That's the wave that is just starting to hit and we're just starting to see the problems now."

There was more bad news on the employment front Thursday, with the Labor Department reporting for a second consecutive week an unexpected rise in initial jobless claims. The 576,000 claims last week, following 561,000 the week before, likely sets up a bad employment report for August after a July reprieve.
...

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 11:34PM

Adding another log to the fire:

Obama addresses immigration reform
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26308.html
Quote

...
Obama dropped in on a White House meeting with more than 100 immigration reform backers — and the message, according to some who were there, was that Obama would push for immigration reform even as the health-care debate continues to unfold.

“I think he’s more forward-leaning,” said Angela Kelley, an immigration reform expert with the liberal Center for American Progress think tank. “The takeaway from Mexico was that this is just kicking the can down the road. The takeaway from today is they’re rolling up their sleeves and leaning heavy into the issue.”

There was no indication that the president set a timeline for reform, though he said he expected Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) to introduce and hold hearings on a major immigration bill this fall, participants said.

“He’s doing this and health care. He didn’t give an inkling that he’s going to back away from immigration reform. I think he’s ready to do the heavy lifting,” said Kelley.
...

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 20, 2009 11:39PM

Honestly, I think this woman has such a distorted sense of reality, she must be the mother of someone that posts on this forum...

Pelosi: No bill without public option
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0809/Pelosi_No_bill_without_public_option.html
Quote

...
“There’s no way I can pass a bill in the House of Representatives without a public option,” the California Democrat said, according to wire reports. "Unless someone comes up with a better idea, that's how we're going forth in the House."

Pelosi reportedly added: "If someone can come up with a better idea, let them put it on the table, we haven't heard that yet. ... So we're fighting very hard for the public option."
...

An idea that she believes in, and doesn't go against her big money donors. Honestly, I don't believe this woman could have a soul if they do exist :)

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 21, 2009 12:18AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honestly, I think this woman has such a distorted
> sense of reality, she must be the mother of
> someone that posts on this forum...
>
> Pelosi: No bill without public option
> http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0809/Pel
> osi_No_bill_without_public_option.html
>
> ...
> “There’s no way I can pass a bill in the House of
> Representatives without a public option,” the
> California Democrat said, according to wire
> reports. "Unless someone comes up with a better
> idea, that's how we're going forth in the House."
>
> Pelosi reportedly added: "If someone can come up
> with a better idea, let them put it on the table,
> we haven't heard that yet. ... So we're fighting
> very hard for the public option."
> ...
>
>
> An idea that she believes in, and doesn't go
> against her big money donors. Honestly, I don't
> believe this woman could have a soul if they do
> exist :)


As much as I hate that shriveled up cunt, she's actually being realistic.

If a health-care reform bill is passed that doesn't allow a public option, that means all they can pass is a bill that places restrictions and regulations on private insurers or providers.

Fed Ex and UPS don't seem to have much trouble competing against the public option.

All kinds of private security firms who guard private businesses' properties don't seem to have a problem with local police forces.

I still don't trust that nasty little cunt, but on this one point, I can't agree with her more. Let the government create the equivalent of a post office for health care. Let the market create UPS and Fedex to compete against it.

Otherwise, they're going to create rules, regulations, restrictions and bureaucracies that totally cripple health care.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 21, 2009 12:30AM

TM, I think you got that wrapped totally mixed up, backwards and wrong.

The only bureaucracy that would be created would be if they create a public option. They already have regulations on health insurance providers, they just have never had the balls to go against the insurance company money to pass anything with things like "no pre-existing condition" and "no drop" provisions. The last time they went through this they couldn't even put in anything against pharmaceutical wishes to go outside the country for price management.

I already outlined some things they could look into and probably pass if they all sat down and agreed to get the special interests out of the equation.

You know, the biggest issue you hear in ALL the discussions is the lack of doctors. How about we address that problem square on and get the AMA out of the business of regulating how many doctors and specialists get licenses every year. Canada is facing a similar problem, and they are actually contracting with hospitals in Michigan and other areas to take patients for operations they cannot get enough specialists to perform.

The "otherwise, they're going to create..." argument is a fail - they are going to do that anyway no matter what they do. Private security are not the equivalent of a police department. Not even close. Your Fed Ex/UPS comparison is closer, but they are only dealing with a niche market of what the Postal Service does. They are not standard letter carriers. That comparison would be more like the postal service does all the preventative medicine and private insurers provide surgery and critical care.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Hi, I am kettle ()
Date: August 21, 2009 12:43AM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Limbaugh..the drug addict.

As opposed to ""Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it."

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 21, 2009 12:58AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anyway no matter what they do. Private security
> are not the equivalent of a police department. Not
> even close. Your Fed Ex/UPS comparison is closer,
> but they are only dealing with a niche market of
> what the Postal Service does. They are not
> standard letter carriers. That comparison would be
> more like the postal service does all the
> preventative medicine and private insurers provide
> surgery and critical care.


That actually sounds okay to me.

I can deal with unimportant mail being handled by the government, and when I have a really critical package that needs to be delivered tomorow, I can call up FedEx or UPS.

If I need surgery, I'd prefer to have a basic option and a private provider.

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Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 21, 2009 01:51AM

More folks on the left of the argument that really don't seem to get it.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/08/21/health_push_mired_some_blame_obama/
Quote

...
In recent weeks, Obama has delivered mixed messages that have bogged down the debate and sapped momentum from his top domestic priority.

He distracted attention during his own prime-time press conference last month on health care when he stated that Cambridge police acted “stupidly’’ when they arrested Henry Louis Gates Jr., which dominated the news for a week. He took several days to directly rebut charges that the health plan included “death panels’’ that would determine end-of-life care. This week, he and his top aides appeared to waver on the importance of creating a government-run plan to compete with private insurers.
...

The Gates issue was a miscalculation on his part which has a lot to do with why everything derailed.


Quote

...
Howard Dean, the former Democratic National Committee chairman who has been critical of the White House’s equivocation about support for the public-option plan, said the White House is going through a catharsis as it tries to figure out how to transfer campaign tactics to winning one of the most difficult legislative battles in recent history.

“It is a learning experience, a major initiative like this in the first year,’’ Dean said in an interview. “It is a different kind of campaign and that’s why they had trouble with the message. I don’t think they were prepared for the vociferousness of the attack.’’

Bipartisan support Obama expected in Congress did not materialize, Dean added.
...

Some serious BS there. Maybe if Obama had outlined HIS plan instead of letting Pelosi and Reid run the show he might have had more success. They were more concerned about pushing through Hillary-Care Take II, and that was bound to get huge resistance. They just weren't interested in a bi-partisan solution as they had control of Congress.


Quote

...
During the campaign, Obama marveled at the way many supporters viewed him as a clean slate onto which they could write their hopes and dreams. Obama talked in generalities about health care reform during the campaign and, for instance, barely mentioned the idea of a public-option plan. Now, as specifics about the plan replace campaign platitudes, it is inevitable that a certain number of supporters will be disappointed by the details, Jamieson said.

That has given Republicans an opening to go after elements of the plan while still saying they support an overhaul. “There is a big difference between health care reform, which everybody is for, and a bill that raises taxes and cuts Medicare and increases government involvement in your health care,’’ said Don Stewart, a spokesman for the Republican leader of the US Senate, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky. “Once you get into specifics, you are going to lose people.’’
...

Most people agree we need to overhaul health care and insurance - this plan as presented is too vague as far as I am concerned. It has holes you can drive a truck through, and that is a big reason why it is failing.

The last statement and then this statement by Paul Begalia...

Quote

...
Paul Begala, who was an adviser to President Clinton during the failed 1993 effort to overhaul health care, suggested that Obama should return to the campaign mode of explaining why the current system is bad and spend less time on the nuances of the various plans.

“This is heretical, but I would explain less,’’ Begala said. “When you get into the minute details of a 1,000-page bill, you lose people in the weeds.’’
...

...is BS. When you have members of Congress going around saying they haven't read the bill, but they support it - that is a killer. After the Stimulus bill that had so much oddball spending in it that no one knew about until later, folks are wary of having another BS bill pushed through with hidden stipulations, ESPECIALLY when it deals with something as important as Health Care.

The Democrats went about this the wrong way, and now they are planning to do something really stupid if they try to ram this through. It would have been wrong for the Republicans to do it when they were trying to get votes on judges - it is wrong to try it with something like this now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 21, 2009 03:12AM

tl;dr

I didn't watch fox news, and I don't listen to right wing radio.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: rush ()
Date: August 21, 2009 03:15AM

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tl;dr
>
> I didn't watch fox news, and I don't listen to
> right wing radio.


ur a loser communist

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 21, 2009 03:22AM

rush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thurston Moore Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tl;dr
> >
> > I didn't watch fox news, and I don't listen to
> > right wing radio.
>
>
> ur a loser communist

I know, really?

I'm actually a french surrenderalist commie traitor.

Or didn't you know?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: rush ()
Date: August 21, 2009 03:24AM

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rush Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thurston Moore Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > tl;dr
> > >
> > > I didn't watch fox news, and I don't listen
> to
> > > right wing radio.
> >
> >
> > ur a loser communist
>
> I know, really?
>
> I'm actually a french surrenderalist commie
> traitor.
>
> Or didn't you know?


lame

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 21, 2009 10:40AM

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tl;dr
>
> I didn't watch fox news, and I don't listen to
> right wing radio.

Nothing I posted was from either source.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 21, 2009 05:51PM

We all agree there is currently some form of rationing under our existing health care system. There is also a shortage of doctors and specialists even under the current system. Add the potential for insuring everyone, and even with Obama saying he won't give care to illegals, all that means is there is another piece of legislation coming to legalize their presence, such as a guest worker program (he did recently say he was going to have them start pushing immigration reform as well).

Here is an excellent article by John Stossel (ABCs Resident Conservative) on why rationing will be worse under currently proposed legislation:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=8358377

Quote

...
But even if some conservative Republican critics are wrong about Section 1233, there is good reason to worry about Obama's nationalization scheme.

The reason can be found in Econ 101. Medical care doesn't grow on trees. It must be produced by human and physical capital, and those resources are limited. Therefore, if demand for health care services increases -- which is Obama's point in extending health insurance -- prices must go up. But somehow Obama also promises, "I won't sign a bill that doesn't reduce health care inflation".

This is magical thinking (http://tinyurl.com/5sznet). Obama, talented as he is, can't repeal the laws of supply and demand. Costs are real. If they are incurred, someone has to pay them. But as economist Thomas Sowell points out, politicians can control costs -- by refusing to pay for the services.

It's called rationing.

Advocates of nationalization hate that word because it forces them to face an ugly truth. If government pays for more people's health care and wants to control costs, it must limit what we buy.

So much for Obama's promise not to interfere with our freedom of choice.

This brings us back to end-of-life consultation. As the government's health care budget becomes strained, as it must -- and, as Obama admits, already is under Medicare -- the government will have to cut back on what it lets people have.
...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 21, 2009 07:23PM

Yes..there is rationing..there always will be rationing..the question is whether money will be the deciding factor on who gets medical care and who wont. Personally..I have one of the best medical insurance policies..one of the best retirement packages..so I will get mine. The question is...are you stupid enough to think you'll get yours!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: MackeyT ()
Date: August 21, 2009 07:36PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes..there is rationing..there always will be
> rationing..the question is whether money will be
> the deciding factor on who gets medical care and
> who wont. Personally..I have one of the best
> medical insurance policies..one of the best
> retirement packages..so I will get mine. The
> question is...are you stupid enough to think
> you'll get yours!

If there is a public option available, what would stop employers from merely ending employees health care benefits to save money? What would stop the Federal Government and Congress from dumping their health care plans and sending them to the public option if public outrage continues to grow? Are you absolutely positive that you will keep yours?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 21, 2009 07:44PM

There is something worse then an employer deciding to end employee health care and ending up in the government run option..thats an employer deciding medical care is too expensive and just not offering anything to employees. It happens every day.

What really needs to be done is to penalize an employer from doing so. To make the option of dropping a private insurance non-viable...as in penalties.

Am I absolutley sure I will keep mine...no, only thing Im assured of is death and taxes. But if you think "the plan" is to drive ebryone to the govt run system...I think you are mistaken.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2009 07:45PM by Vince(1).

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: MackeyT ()
Date: August 21, 2009 10:58PM

Can you point to anything in the bill that would do just that? I mean in the sense
of penalizing employers who dump private insurance plans? I haven't seen anything.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 21, 2009 11:03PM

No..Im sorry if I gave you that impression. Just seems so obvious to me...such a simple solution.

It really isnt a perfect solution...you cant make the penalty so big that the only viable option is for the business to close it's doors. But something could be done to at least not make it the first option.

The thing is..these are the discussions that can or should be had if people would just stop yelling at each other...and agree with a frameork...

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2009 11:04PM by Vince(1).

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 22, 2009 12:21AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the economy is humming along by November 2010,
> the Republicans won't be able to do shit. It
> really comes down to that.

This will also put an even larger damper on health insurance reform efforts, along with a lot of other issues. Even if they manage to float this debt, inflation is going to be really hard to hold off now - or else the Fed is going to have some serious rate hikes to slow it down...

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

Moderates are going to be retreating in droves now.

Quote

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration will raise its 10-year budget deficit projection to approximately $9 trillion from $7.108 trillion in a report next week, a senior administration official told Reuters on Friday.
...
Treasury markets have been worried all year about the mounting deficit. The United States relies on large foreign buyers such as China and Japan to cheaply finance its debt, and they may demand higher interest rates if they begin to doubt that the government can control its deficits.

"It's one of those underlying pieces of news that is liable to haunt the bond market at some point in the future," said Kim Rupert, managing director of global fixed income analysis at Action Economics LLC in San Francisco, referring to the revised 10-year deficit projection.

Many economists think it is unlikely the government can curtail spending, which means taxes would have to go up to cover the rising costs of providing retirement and healthcare benefits to aging Americans.
...

And this doesn't even include the projected $215B(something like that assuming they are even close - usually their numbers are optimistic) per year current projections on the new health care plan by the CBO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2009 12:22AM by Registered Voter.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Is Barney Frank going to give it to Nancy Pelosi in the pooper?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 22, 2009 09:16AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the economy is humming along by November
> 2010,
> > the Republicans won't be able to do shit. It
> > really comes down to that.
>
> This will also put an even larger damper on health
> insurance reform efforts, along with a lot of
> other issues. Even if they manage to float this
> debt, inflation is going to be really hard to hold
> off now - or else the Fed is going to have some
> serious rate hikes to slow it down...
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4
> XE20090821
>
> Moderates are going to be retreating in droves
> now.
>
>
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration
> will raise its 10-year budget deficit projection
> to approximately $9 trillion from $7.108 trillion
> in a report next week, a senior administration
> official told Reuters on Friday.
> ...
> Treasury markets have been worried all year about
> the mounting deficit. The United States relies on
> large foreign buyers such as China and Japan to
> cheaply finance its debt, and they may demand
> higher interest rates if they begin to doubt that
> the government can control its deficits.
>
> "It's one of those underlying pieces of news that
> is liable to haunt the bond market at some point
> in the future," said Kim Rupert, managing director
> of global fixed income analysis at Action
> Economics LLC in San Francisco, referring to the
> revised 10-year deficit projection.
>
> Many economists think it is unlikely the
> government can curtail spending, which means taxes
> would have to go up to cover the rising costs of
> providing retirement and healthcare benefits to
> aging Americans.
> ...
>
>
> And this doesn't even include the projected
> $215B(something like that assuming they are even
> close - usually their numbers are optimistic) per
> year current projections on the new health care
> plan by the CBO.


It's not as if republicans have any credibility on reducing deficits. The only difference I see between the dems and reps on spending is what they want to spend on. Republicans are all for military spending and military interventions...democrats more for internal consumption.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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