Long story short, I bought a computer that's super awesome for two weeks before it decides to randomly stop working. I've been round and round with Gateway technical support, but the non-English-speaking, cue-card reading Level 1 help desk is unable to help, intentionally or otherwise.

A couple (possibly) relevant things to keep in mind:

1. The computer came with one 640Gb hard drive.
2. The computer seems hardwired to have the hard drive and DVD R/W set up as a RAID array. There's no way to turn it off. Lord, how I tried.
3. The problem I'm about to explain disappears after a fresh, factory install of the OS (using the recovery software, of course). It resurfaces in two or three weeks, like clockwork.

The problem:

While playing a game (or occasionally, while doing anything), the box will emit a high-pitched whining noise, and start to make a "whirr-click, whirr-click" noise. The system locks up and becomes completely non-responsive.

Observations:

I've always suspected it was a problem with the hard drive, but the last time it did it, I popped open the side of the box to make sure. Yes, it's the hard drive. Curious, I touched it, and the hard drive was boiling lava hot. And, while I was dicking around there, the computer (for the first time) resumed working, but gave me a RAID-related error message.

I left the side off the box, and set a small fan blowing into the box to cool off the hard drive, and haven't had the problem since (only a couple days, so I'm refraining from optimism).

Question:

Even though all signs point to the obvious answer, I'm going to ask anyway; can an excessive heat load on a hard drive cause these sorts of problems?

Right now, my best guess is that the heat load is causing the hard drive to malfunction, and as it tries to recover, it's trying to pull redundant data from the RAID array, but ha ha, there's only one drive on the array, which leads to the computer shitting itself and giving up.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

install UNIX

Yes, if the drive overheats (it sounds like it is) then it can lock up. Also components on the system board could be getting too hot if they are in proximity to the drive.

If you reload the OS, that is probably correcting problems being introduced when the drive is malfunctioning. Then over time, the drive failures add up and it goes down again. A lot of the newer on-board chipsets include RAID functions - even though it comes up in the flash screen, that doesn't necessarily mean the RAID functions are enabled. Your DVD drive accessing is probably due to the HD failure, and then the system will start looking for the file it was trying to read/open on other attached drives.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2009 02:14PM by Registered Voter.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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> Long story short, I bought a computer that's super
> awesome for two weeks before it decides to
> randomly stop working. I've been round and round
> with Gateway ...

There's your trouble. Gateway is crap.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There's your trouble. Gateway is crap.

Yeah, I wasn't going to go there, but that is true.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

I know what's wrong Wrote:
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> install UNIX

Don't get me started.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
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> There's your trouble. Gateway is crap.

To be fair, the Gateway computer I had previously served me faithfully, without problems, for five years. I still do the bulk of my work on it, because it's a solid machine. Up until now, I would have highly recommended a Gateway to anybody.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Gateway has pretty much gone to the pits lately. They sold off their "business" PC/server unit - it is almost impossible to get service on any of the business class machines they sold 3yrs+ ago. At one time they had "decent" PCs, but for the last 2 years they have definitely been "for crap".

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There's your trouble. Gateway is crap.
>
> To be fair, the Gateway computer I had previously
> served me faithfully, without problems, for five
> years. I still do the bulk of my work on it,
> because it's a solid machine. Up until now, I
> would have highly recommended a Gateway to
> anybody.

Gateway used to have a great reputation, as did HP and Dell. Unfortunately, as PCs have gotten cheaper, the quality of each brand has gotten worse. It seems like even Macs crap out after 18 months to two years, now. For the house, I use e-Machines and good backups. That way, I don't care if they go to shit because they don't cost an arm and a leg to replace.

I have a Gateway laptop that has been great. It's never really been turned off in the three years that I've had it, and I've never had a single problem with it. Except for an occassional re-boot, it's been running 24/7 since the fall of '06. I'd buy another Gateway based on my experience.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gateway used to have a great reputation, as did HP
> and Dell. Unfortunately, as PCs have gotten
> cheaper, the quality of each brand has gotten
> worse. It seems like even Macs crap out after 18
> months to two years, now. For the house, I use
> e-Machines and good backups. That way, I don't
> care if they go to shit because they don't cost an
> arm and a leg to replace.

That's fine for you, Mister Eight Figure Salary from Staying At Home and Consulting, but us janitors are on a budget.

I got a whole lot of computer for $800 bucks, and it's gotta last me for a couple years.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a Gateway laptop that has been great. It's
> never really been turned off in the three years
> that I've had it, and I've never had a single
> problem with it. Except for an occassional
> re-boot, it's been running 24/7 since the fall of
> '06. I'd buy another Gateway based on my
> experience.



The problem is, in '06 a good laptop may have cost $1,300. Now, everyone wants a laptop for $700, and the quality shows. Also, Gateway really fucked up with that Gateway Store debacle. The company hasn't really been the same since.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gateway used to have a great reputation, as did
> HP
> > and Dell. Unfortunately, as PCs have gotten
> > cheaper, the quality of each brand has gotten
> > worse. It seems like even Macs crap out after
> 18
> > months to two years, now. For the house, I use
> > e-Machines and good backups. That way, I don't
> > care if they go to shit because they don't cost
> an
> > arm and a leg to replace.
>
> That's fine for you, Mister Eight Figure Salary
> from Staying At Home and Consulting, but us
> janitors are on a budget.
>
> I got a whole lot of computer for $800 bucks, and
> it's gotta last me for a couple years.

I'll have you know that I'm a cheap bastard. Each eMachine cost me like $300. I don't care if the kids fuck those up.

Actually, if I could find a Netbook that wasn't slower than shit, I might pick up a couple of those, especially if they use 3G. Those are cheap little bastards.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have a Gateway laptop that has been great.
> It's
> > never really been turned off in the three years
> > that I've had it, and I've never had a single
> > problem with it. Except for an occassional
> > re-boot, it's been running 24/7 since the fall
> of
> > '06. I'd buy another Gateway based on my
> > experience.
>
>
>
> The problem is, in '06 a good laptop may have cost
> $1,300. Now, everyone wants a laptop for $700, and
> the quality shows. Also, Gateway really fucked up
> with that Gateway Store debacle. The company
> hasn't really been the same since.

$700? Shit folks gripe when you cross the $500 point.

Depending on the setup of your box, they sell fan units that fit in drive bays which can help (not very expensive) or perhaps locating the drive in a different bay that gets better airflow. Also some cases have areas you can mount an extra box fan that uses one of the available power cords or a 3-pin jack on the motherboard.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

I think I paid a grand for it. Definitely not $1,300 though.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> $700? Shit folks gripe when you cross the $500
> point.

Wow, you aren't shitting! I just saw a Compaq laptop with a Celeron chip going for $329. I bought a laptop with a Celeron right when they came out and it must have been $1,500 or more.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0312136

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0307967

EDIT: Notice the second one is a Gateway - eMachines laptop...

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2009 02:39PM by Registered Voter.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.
> phtml?product_id=0312136
>
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.
> phtml?product_id=0307967
>
> EDIT: Notice the second one is a Gateway -
> eMachines laptop...


Fuck! eMachines is owned by Gateway!!!

et tu, eMachines? et tu???

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.
>
> > phtml?product_id=0312136
> >
> >
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.
>
> > phtml?product_id=0307967
> >
> > EDIT: Notice the second one is a Gateway -
> > eMachines laptop...
>
>
> Fuck! eMachines is owned by Gateway!!!
>
> et tu, eMachines? et tu???

eMachines AND Acer are now Gateway companies.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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>
> eMachines AND Acer are now Gateway companies.

Well, at least with Acer they got access to really inexpensive manufacturing facilities. Ugh though lol.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

its your harddrive

edit: i forgot to mention how to disable raid. see the post below for good tips



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2009 03:46PM by Charlie Schmidt's "cool cat".

Don't touch the inside with the power running! You should turn off AND unplug your power supply before hand. You can short your equipment or yourself quite easily.

Raid should be configurable via bios, usually this is accessed by delete during boot (or it could be f12) it will likely say press X to enter setup.

In your bios menu you can disable raid.

It does sound hard drive related. Turn on your SMART option in BIOS if available, this monitors some basic hard drive health. There are also utilities you can run that well tell you the temps.

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't touch the inside with the power running! You
> should turn off AND unplug your power supply
> before hand. You can short your equipment or
> yourself quite easily.

I figured touching the outer shell of the hard drive was safe. If an electrical short was putting voltage through the shell, I think my computer would have been more non-functional than it was. I made sure to ground myself first; I'm not a TOTAL noob...

> Raid should be configurable via bios, usually this
> is accessed by delete during boot (or it could be
> f12) it will likely say press X to enter setup.
>
> In your bios menu you can disable raid.

I'm stuck with the RAID. RESton Peace and I both tried to deactivate it during my foray into Linux. BIOS doesn't even have a RAID option, and in the RAID utility you can access during startup (sort of a second BIOS, but just for RAID), your only options are striping or spanning.

I grasp the concept of RAID, but I've never actually used it or seen it used.

> It does sound hard drive related. Turn on your
> SMART option in BIOS if available, this monitors
> some basic hard drive health. There are also
> utilities you can run that well tell you the
> temps.

The SMART option is on, I believe. What can I access to see things like drive temperature?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

You should be able to spray some kind of specialized coolant into the drive bays when it's unplugged (but definitely keep away from the motherboard). That should solve the problem and keep things nice and cool for ya.

Your bios usually has a hardware health or something similar menu, it will list cpu temp and sys temp and maybe hard drive.

If you cannot boot after it you believe it is heating up it's probably the hardware shutting itself off to prevent damage.

Why are you grounding yourself? By doing that you're guaranteeing that electricity runs through you to ground - you become part of the conductor...

You could totally leave it plugged in and just hop in your car to ground yourself. Anyways, that's what was written on my good friend's tombstone.

make sure your hands are wet when you remove the cover.......

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are you grounding yourself? By doing that
> you're guaranteeing that electricity runs through
> you to ground - you become part of the
> conductor...

Doing so before you touch the hardware eliminates any static charge you may have built up, preventing you from shocking the equipment and making it completely useless.

I am completely confident that a person can touch the metal surface of their hard drive while it's plugged in and running without risk. Otherwise, the concept of hot swapping hard drives would have never caught on.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

496 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> make sure your hands are wet when you remove the
> cover.......

Well, of course. Like I said, I'm not a total n00b.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

If the SMART reporting is enabled and it is not telling you there is a problem with the HD look into getting an additional case fan for the unit.

Something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Startech-5-25-Drive-Cooling-Dual/dp/B000050ZUQ

or this:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CF-HC2510C-BU&cat=FAN
(for this one make sure the space is open beneath the drive)

Also they have PCI slot fans you can use in an empty expansion slot in the back if there is no mounting point inside the case for a box fan.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> or this:
> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CF-HC2510C
> -BU&cat=FAN
> (for this one make sure the space is open beneath
> the drive)

If I had to buy one, this is the one I'd go with. The first sweet feature listed under "General Specifications" is "Blue Color."

How goddamn awesome is that?

I think what I'll do is leave the side of the case off and leave the fan on it for a while to see if that corrects the problem for good. The drive lately has been barely warm to the touch, and it hasn't locked up on me for a couple days.

When I'm confident that it is a heat problem, I'll find a sexier solution.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

A sexier solution? Ask RV about "mounting points" and "expansion slots." It doesn't get any more sexier than that my friends.

Mephisto, have you seen Mr. Cobblesworth? It is possible that he got electrocuted and short circuited something.



.
Attachments:

4 Mr Phist 0 Wrote:
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> Mephisto, have you seen Mr. Cobblesworth? It is
> possible that he got electrocuted and short
> circuited something.

I just saw him fifteen minutes ago, when he begged for a piece of my quesadilla, which I gave him.

He grabbed it, and ran inside his house to eat it. He made little chomping sounds. It was adorable.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Tapout Fisting Club Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A sexier solution? Ask RV about "mounting points"
> and "expansion slots." It doesn't get any more
> sexier than that my friends.

Compared to "stick a fan in front of the open tower," putting an awesome hard drive fan unit that's mother fucking BLUE COLOR is sexy like Rose McGowan.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Download and install speedfan

http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php Which allows you to monitor the temperatures inside your (Windows) PC.

and keep an eye on your HD temperature. See what the temp range it's operating in. Then stress the PC with a game or something...and see how high it goes. Speedfan will let you minimize it to the system tray so you can constantly see the temperature.

Have you checked to make sure that the OEM fans are actually working?

It sounds like you either have a defective drive (a few are bound to be defective, considering how many are made every year), something is working your drive overtime causing it to overheat (some sort of software issue) or the cooling design of the tower case is not functioning properly, or was just poorly designed.

Add on fans are an option, but you should make sure that all of the fans installed in that machine are working. Sometimes a fan fails, and you don't know until you look.

If you have a bad fan, give the blades a little push, sometimes that is all that is required to get them moving again, if it's just a dust issue. Otherwise, spray some WD40 on a toothpick, then drip it down into the axle of the fan (you may have to remove a sticker to do this.) Wait a bit, then power on and see if the fan works now.

If not, google the fan's part number and order a new one, or go to Microcenter and see if you can buy a replacement from them.

I think they sell kits to convert your internal drive to an external one. Maybe moving it out of the main box will keep it sufficiently cool. Also, as someone else noted, check the fan (maybe buy a bigger one)

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ITRADE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why are you grounding yourself? By doing that
> > you're guaranteeing that electricity runs
> through
> > you to ground - you become part of the
> > conductor...
>
> Doing so before you touch the hardware eliminates
> any static charge you may have built up,
> preventing you from shocking the equipment and
> making it completely useless.
>
> I am completely confident that a person can touch
> the metal surface of their hard drive while it's
> plugged in and running without risk. Otherwise,
> the concept of hot swapping hard drives would have
> never caught on.


OK, thats different. In my field, "grounding yourself" entails continuously connecting yourself to a ground point. That is very, very bad (hence the advice to always keep one hand in your pocket when working on potentially high voltage sources). But temporarily grounding yourself prior to touching electronics for the sake is eliminating static discharge is fine.

I knew what he meant...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2009 09:22AM by Registered Voter.