The real story that the billion dollar health insurance companies don't want you to know- Why US health care sucks ass and other countries laugh at the US.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6646340600856118396&ei=2nJ7SvrcHMrdlQe0z6zvBQ&q=sicko&hl=en

Yes - they used the example of Kaiser Permanente in that movie as an example of a bad health care company. But they keep calling this Health Care reform (although recently, much like global warming, they have started saying insurance instead of health care) - when all they are doing is attempting to replace private insurers with the Fed as the insurer. Sorry, but first off, the Fed can't even manage Social Security or other entitlement programs. In the end it will cost much more then the private insurers ever did - and here's the joke - where do you think all the folks working for the private companies will go when they are driven out of business?

No, you want to reduce health care costs significantly and more importantly, long term? Talk to the AMA and then work with the pharmaceutical companies - but the AMA is the main issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2009 09:28PM by Registered Voter.

Lies and more lies..the Government does a great job managainglots of programs. No one has lost a penny in their SSN investment..and never will.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Medicare and Social Security are the biggest Ponzi schemes ever.

Vince(1) Wrote:
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> Lies and more lies..the Government does a great
> job managainglots of programs. No one has lost a
> penny in their SSN investment..and never will.

Vince - STFU you ignorant mental dimwit. I don't use this term often because I know how offensive it is - but seriously you are a RETARD of the first order.

Have I ever called you a liar? Deranged yes, delusional, sure. But I don't believe you come here and lie just because you think you should.

You want to call me a liar, then prove it or STFU.

I will say this - you don't have a fuckin clue.
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Attachments:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-02-doctor-shortage_x.htm

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...
The country needs to train 3,000 to 10,000 more physicians a year — up from the current 25,000 — to meet the growing medical needs of an aging, wealthy nation, the studies say. Because it takes 10 years to train a doctor, the nation will have a shortage of 85,000 to 200,000 doctors in 2020 unless action is taken soon.

The predictions of a doctor shortage represent an abrupt about-face for the medical profession. For the past quarter-century, the American Medical Association and other industry groups have predicted a glut of doctors and worked to limit the number of new physicians. In 1994, the Journal of the American Medical Association predicted a surplus of 165,000 doctors by 2000.

"It didn't happen," says Harvard University medical professor David Blumenthal, author of a New England Journal of Medicinearticle on the doctor supply. "Physicians aren't driving taxis. In fact, we're all gainfully employed, earning good incomes, and new physicians are getting two, three or four job offers."
...

http://www.bambooweb.com/articles/A/m/American_Medical_Association.html

Quote

...

Many feel that the AMA is driving the U.S. towards public health insurance, because private health insurance prices are too high. Half of U.S. citizens have no health insurance, because they can't afford it. Thousands of patients die each year because they can't afford the medical bill for life-saving surgery, early detection tests, check-ups, diagnosis, medicine, therapy, and other healing treatments. Many people are desperate enough to vote for Democrat candidates that will pass Universal Medicine (Socialized Medicine) into law. This results in higher taxes to pay for the high cost of Socialized Medicine. It would also make the Federal government larger and more powerful with less personal freedoms, and cause the U.S. government to drift towards a Socialist system, leaving Capitalism behind. The AMA and most U.S. citizens prefer cheap private Health Insurance over Socialism. Proponents agree that eliminating the AMA annual limit will cause Health Insurance prices to lower drastically as the number of doctors will double or more, preventing the need to swicth to a Socialized Medicine system.

Health Care Reform: A Better Plan
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/07/health_care_reform_a_better_plan_97804.html

This would be a better way to deal with insurers - and also cleanup pre-existing condition exclusions and such. But we still need more doctors to see meaningful cost reductions.

Quote

...
The plan is so simple it doesn't even have the requisite three parts. Just two: radical tort reform and radically severing the link between health insurance and employment.

(1) Tort reform: As I wrote recently, our crazy system of casino malpractice suits results in massive and random settlements that raise everyone's insurance premiums and creates an epidemic of defensive medicine that does no medical good, yet costs a fortune.

An authoritative Massachusetts Medical Society study found that five out of six doctors admitted they order tests, procedures and referrals -- amounting to about 25 percent of the total -- solely as protection from lawsuits. Defensive medicine, estimates the libertarian/conservative Pacific Research Institute, wastes more than $200 billion a year. Just half that sum could provide a $5,000 health insurance grant -- $20,000 for a family of four -- to the uninsured poor (U.S. citizens ineligible for other government health assistance).

What to do? Abolish the entire medical-malpractice system. Create a new social pool from which people injured in medical errors or accidents can draw. The adjudication would be done by medical experts, not lay juries giving away lottery prizes at the behest of the liquid-tongued John Edwardses who pocket a third of the proceeds.

The pool would be funded by a relatively small tax on all health-insurance premiums. Socialize the risk; cut out the trial lawyers. Would that immunize doctors from carelessness or negligence? No. The penalty would be losing your medical license. There is no more serious deterrent than forfeiting a decade of intensive medical training and the livelihood that comes with it.

(2) Real health-insurance reform: Tax employer-provided health care benefits and return the money to the employee with a government check to buy his own medical insurance, just as he buys his own car or home insurance.

There is no logical reason to get health insurance through your employer. This entire system is an accident of World War II wage and price controls. It's economically senseless. It makes people stay in jobs they hate, decreasing labor mobility and therefore overall productivity. And it needlessly increases the anxiety of losing your job by raising the additional specter of going bankrupt through illness.
...

]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 10:41PM by Alias.

Yeah I know. I think the biggest thing to take out of Sicko is the "rationing" of health care to make a profit. For those folks that think having the government running it would be so much better.... what makes you think the Fed will do anything different? And when they do it, you will have no recourse once they manage to drive the other insurers out of business. Based on the information I posted early on, where they end up rating patients based on current age and other significant health issues, you can bet that the older you get, the less "worthy" you will be. Just look at the NHS in England no longer allowing cortisone shots to folks with joint issues. An accepted method of dealing with joint pain, especially in older folks - now they will have to try and schedule for time with a specialist, or hope they can get operated on for what will amount to elective surgery...

][



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 10:42PM by Alias.

People are missing the point here... as long as the two words "health insurance" are used in any "reform" effort, it isn't reform. Moore's point is that the health insurance industry is responsible for why we have problems... they are the cause. He points to other systems that don't have health insurance as a part of their system. You are sick, you see a doctor, you leave.

REAL reform would be to create a new 10% national sales tax on all goods and services and use that to pay doctors and hospitals. A driver's license or other kind of ID card proving you are a US citizen would be the only "insurance" card you need. No one pays health insurance premiums anymore. No one has to worry about losing "coverage" because coverage is no longer a part of the system. Everyone is paying into the system, which is what the health care industry identifies as a major reason why there isn't enough money in the system. The government doesn't make any health care decisions, they monitor the system for fraud. And the health insurance companies, with their claim denial forms and coverage caps, can go out of business and to hell where they belong.

This is why I am pissed that the Democrats have wasted this opportunity. It isn't every year that they have the White House and majorities in both houses of Congress. They waste this opportunity on crap that isn't real reform when they were put there to fix this shit once and for all. Instead they created enough cracks in their proposals that Republicans can send old people to all of the town hall meetings to yell "GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE", who then go home thankful for their Medicare coverage (duh, a government-run system you friggin dolts!).

The problem is the current US health care system is run for PROFIT not to help take care of US citizens. That's why people in other countries don't want anything to do with American health care or "health insurance."

Once you get cancer or acquire a bad disease you will be dropped and you won't have health care. You can be the VP of major companies, it doesn't matter, your dropped. It doesn't matter how much money you have. Health care for people who get cancer, ALS, diabetes, etc can run into the hundreds of thousands.

Americans need to be protected! Disease is a US enemy just like the Taliban@

Yes - but again, artificially limiting the number of doctors is directly related to the issue. I think if you had seen the AMA NOT limit new doctors, the direct costs of health care would have been lowered as well. Note - I think our current health insurance sucks too - BUT - I don't believe the government will run it ANY differently then the current health insurance folks do.

pgens and Lopter both show pieces of the problem. I think though if you go to any sort of system where you have a "generic" system where you can go to the doctor anytime you can end up with a different problem. One of the "good" things about having a for profit system (not at the insurance level) is that there are still significant incentives in place to develop specialized care. If you just make it so all doctors get paid the same, regardless of their specialty, you really lose a huge motivation that is built into the system to continually improve the system.

Everyone should be covered, but we need to come up with some kind of "hybrid" version that still rewards folks as part of a free market kind of system. EDIT: Maybe something along the lines of having the government pay for training some doctors into a service program to work in under served communities like I outlined earlier, where they perform obligated service, and folks without money or insurance to pay for their health care can go to the public clinics to see a doctor. And oh yeah, make insurance companies go back to being run as non-profits.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2009 09:13AM by Registered Voter.

But the for-profit model is gone now as it is... doctors can put whatever they want on the bill, but they only get what the pre-negotiated rates are with the health insurance company. The only people who pay those "invoice" prices are the uninsured. With an "everyone is paying because everyone pays the national sales tax" we have healthy paying in before they are sick, the sick paying in after they are better, all to pay for those who are currently sick. The doctors can collectively bargain rates, just as they do with the insurance companies. But the entire system WILL BE MUCH CHEAPER without that expensive middleman and we could go to any doctor or hospital we wanted.

And you need to see what "non profits" spend money on. Their parties are better than for-profit organizations and (depending on the organization of course) their management is paid crazy money.

The American healthcare system is a terrible one. Those that complain they don't want government looking after them or rationing their healthcare make a facile argument. Right now in the current system in place you have insurance companies looking after you and rationing your requirements.

These insurance companies have a virtual monopoly on what they can charge and everyone is forced to pay. The costs of which go up several percentage points annually. The US spends close to 16% of their GDP on healthcare, no other nation even comes close. The costs we pay for insurance companies to run healthcare are staggering.

Government does run a massive bureaucracy there is no contention there - but if you look at how they run medicare/medicaid the overhead for administrative costs is miniscule in comparison to healthcare insurance companies. I firmly believe that your American government should indeed socialise healthcare completely and be done with the insurance dominated scheme.

I know it won't happen but it would save vast sums of money not only for corporations who subsidise the vast bulk of insurance schemes for their employees but also for the American people - who the vast majority claim bankruptcy because of some health related issue that insurance doesn't cover.

Another thing - say the average American loses their job which millions have in this recession/depression they basically lose their healthcare coverage - few can afford the COBRA costs. That to me is absolutely ludicrous, not only does one lose their job but now have little/no access to proper healthcare. What type of country does that to their people - tis staggering really.

I love this country and there are many things this country has going for it, healthcare I would grade a D+ - it's great for those that have good plans and work for companies that subsidise them, not so good for everyone else.

Mofo Wrote:
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> Medicare and Social Security are the biggest Ponzi
> schemes ever.

My vote for the biggest ponzi scheme goes to capitalism, especially in the financial services sector.

Britdrnva~ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The American healthcare system is a terrible one.
> Those that complain they don't want government
> looking after them or rationing their healthcare
> make a facile argument. Right now in the current
> system in place you have insurance companies
> looking after you and rationing your
> requirements.
>
> These insurance companies have a virtual monopoly
> on what they can charge and everyone is forced to
> pay. The costs of which go up several percentage
> points annually. The US spends close to 16% of
> their GDP on healthcare, no other nation even
> comes close. The costs we pay for insurance
> companies to run healthcare are staggering.
>
> Government does run a massive bureaucracy there is
> no contention there - but if you look at how they
> run medicare/medicaid the overhead for
> administrative costs is miniscule in comparison to
> healthcare insurance companies. I firmly believe
> that your American government should indeed
> socialise healthcare completely and be done with
> the insurance dominated scheme.
>
> I know it won't happen but it would save vast sums
> of money not only for corporations who subsidise
> the vast bulk of insurance schemes for their
> employees but also for the American people - who
> the vast majority claim bankruptcy because of some
> health related issue that insurance doesn't
> cover.
>
> Another thing - say the average American loses
> their job which millions have in this
> recession/depression they basically lose their
> healthcare coverage - few can afford the COBRA
> costs. That to me is absolutely ludicrous, not
> only does one lose their job but now have
> little/no access to proper healthcare. What type
> of country does that to their people - tis
> staggering really.
>
> I love this country and there are many things this
> country has going for it, healthcare I would grade
> a D+ - it's great for those that have good plans
> and work for companies that subsidise them, not so
> good for everyone else.

Notice I have pointed out better ways to reduce costs and make sure everyone gets access to health care (free - no insurance, but certainly a cost to train doctors and staff health centers). I am not just saying the system shouldn't change - because yes, it needs help. Just having many years of experience with how the Federal government works - I have yet to see them run a program in any way that someone would say "saves money in the long run". In general any time the government runs something, it costs MORE in the long run. So to think that insurance companies (who we all know do not necessarily have our best interests at heart) don't allow certain procedures to be covered to make sure they turn a profit - the government will either raise taxes to offset costs, or not allow procedures to "guide" you and lower costs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2009 02:27PM by Registered Voter.

As if private industry has provided any examples of frugality and proper management...ENRON...AIG....the list is long. The profit motive is now more then ever a motivation for your own profit...

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2009 04:08PM by Vince(1).

Vince - contrary to your belief - not everyone can work for the Federal government. Else who would pay the taxes to cover your early retirement? Illegals immigrants who would be the only people left not working for the government?

Lol

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince - contrary to your belief - not everyone can
> work for the Federal government. Else who would
> pay the taxes to cover your early retirement?
> Illegals immigrants who would be the only people
> left not working for the government?
>
> Lol

True, most couldnt hack it. But one ridiculous statement after another doesnt make you right about a damn thing. The fact is the federal government manages a lot of programs very well. It's just a unique situation that the govt is expected to be transparent...where as private companies everything is a trade secret.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

A "unique situation"?

That's how you would characterize it?

LOL - you are so funny. You must have been perfect for a civil service job - talk about non-thinking easily swayed zombie-fool. And you would be the judge of "ridiculous statements" since that appears to be the only thing that comes out of your head.

Have you always reacted this violently against people who disagree with you?

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

The fact that you see anything "violent" in my response Vince is just another indicator of how skewed your perceptions are.