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Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: ThePackLeader ()
Date: July 31, 2009 11:30AM

Okay, so here we are roughly four days into the "Cash For Clunkers" program, which offers up to $4,500 for a trade-in on your lower-mileage, later model vehicle, and yet the U.S. Transportation Department wants to suspend the program because it has become "too successful". So far, $96,000,000 of the allocated $1,000,000,000 has been utilized, which represents 9.6% of the total available funds. This number is representative of roughly 22,000 brand new vehicles being sold through dealerships across this nation in only FOUR days. However, there are approximately 220,000 more vehicles still in procedure at this moment, due to the back-logging of the dealership rebate registrations/applications, and when the total amount of such is added up, we soon hit a spenditure of $960,000,000, which is equal to 96% of the allocated funds. Therefore, we realize that a program which was originally intended to last One entire year, and then immediately before implementation it was re-estimated to last until November of 2009, has now run its course in less than ONE WEEK.

Well, in all of the ensuing chaos and hooplah surrounding this rather wild occasion, has anyone ever stopped to ask, or even consider, just how many of those benefiting from this return in our tax expenditure are non-citizens, and quite possibly non-tax paying illegal aliens?

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: July 31, 2009 11:50AM

Or how many people went out and bought someone's used POS for $500 and then turned around and turned in for a new car?

There are so many ways to abuse this program it isn't even funny. The fact that there were 240,000+ deals turned in after such a short time should tell you that.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Warhawk ()
Date: July 31, 2009 11:52AM

ThePackLeader Wrote:

> Well, in all of the ensuing chaos and hooplah
> surrounding this rather wild occasion, has anyone
> ever stopped to ask, or even consider, just how
> many of those benefiting from this return in our
> tax expenditure are non-citizens, and quite
> possibly non-tax paying illegal aliens?


That's a good question. In the end, it's really just a program to benefit the auto industry and pump up their sales a bit so I'm not sure it really matters who buys the cars. I'd prefer that all this stimulus type programs go to tax paying citizens, but we all know that the Democrats want to have everyone on planet Earth suckle on the bosom of the American taxpayer.

On a side note, this cash for clunkers was a little too lenient. They should have made people buy hybrids or cars with a substantial increase in MPG over what you were trading in. I have a friend that changed in an old Dodge Durango (17 mpg) for a new Dodge Caliber (23 mpg). That's not too much of an increase.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: July 31, 2009 12:28PM

Who cares..another dumb fuck thread.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: July 31, 2009 12:29PM

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ThePackLeader Wrote:
>
> > Well, in all of the ensuing chaos and hooplah
> > surrounding this rather wild occasion, has
> anyone
> > ever stopped to ask, or even consider, just how
> > many of those benefiting from this return in
> our
> > tax expenditure are non-citizens, and quite
> > possibly non-tax paying illegal aliens?
>
>
> That's a good question. In the end, it's really
> just a program to benefit the auto industry and
> pump up their sales a bit so I'm not sure it
> really matters who buys the cars. I'd prefer that
> all this stimulus type programs go to tax paying
> citizens, but we all know that the Democrats want
> to have everyone on planet Earth suckle on the
> bosom of the American taxpayer.
>
> On a side note, this cash for clunkers was a
> little too lenient. They should have made people
> buy hybrids or cars with a substantial increase in
> MPG over what you were trading in. I have a
> friend that changed in an old Dodge Durango (17
> mpg) for a new Dodge Caliber (23 mpg). That's not
> too much of an increase.


It's a 35% increase..if everyone did that we'd be way ahead in reducing our dependency on oil

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: RLY? ()
Date: July 31, 2009 12:30PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who cares..another dumb fuck thread.

You, sir, are the dumb fuck. You didn't even notice when I pooped in your oatmeal.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: July 31, 2009 12:35PM

RLY? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who cares..another dumb fuck thread.
>
> You, sir, are the dumb fuck. You didn't even
> notice when I pooped in your oatmeal.


That was you?

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Date: July 31, 2009 12:35PM

The program has accomplished what it was meant to accomplish. It got a shitload of people into car show rooms. I imagine most of the people who are buying cars as a result of this aren't even using the program because they don't qualify.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: RLY? ()
Date: July 31, 2009 12:39PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RLY? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Who cares..another dumb fuck thread.
> >
> > You, sir, are the dumb fuck. You didn't even
> > notice when I pooped in your oatmeal.
>
>
> That was you?

Yes, and don't be shocked to see a surprise in your slimfast this afternoon.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Warhawk ()
Date: July 31, 2009 12:39PM

Vince(1) Wrote:

> It's a 35% increase..if everyone did that we'd be
> way ahead in reducing our dependency on oil


It's a 35% increase which is good, but they could have been made to go to a >100% increase (18 mpg to 36+mpg) by being mandated to go to hybrids or from SUVs to small sedans. That would do even more....just sayin'.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Date: July 31, 2009 12:49PM

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
>
> > It's a 35% increase..if everyone did that we'd
> be
> > way ahead in reducing our dependency on oil
>
>
> It's a 35% increase which is good, but they could
> have been made to go to a >100% increase (18 mpg
> to 36+mpg) by being mandated to go to hybrids or
> from SUVs to small sedans. That would do even
> more....just sayin'.


I think the problem is that the top providers of vehicles in that range are not American auto companies. But, yes, pushing the MPG more would have been helpful.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: RestonLass ()
Date: July 31, 2009 01:38PM

The House just approved $2B to extend the Clunkers Plan

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: July 31, 2009 01:42PM

SO that gives it another 2 weeks then. Since it took about a week to obligate the first billion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 01:42PM by Registered Voter.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: July 31, 2009 01:42PM

I think this is a positive program, because the average American citizen is trustworthy and full of integrity. Look at how maturely and responsibly they handled the Katrina Relief money; nobody took advantage of that.

Give it time. I don't know of a single problem facing our great nation today that can't be fixed by throwing a couple billion dollars at it.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Date: July 31, 2009 01:46PM

_images_Artists_J_Johnny-Cash.jpg4.jpgclunker.jpg

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: July 31, 2009 02:35PM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warhawk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> > > It's a 35% increase..if everyone did that
> we'd
> > be
> > > way ahead in reducing our dependency on oil
> >
> >
> > It's a 35% increase which is good, but they
> could
> > have been made to go to a >100% increase (18
> mpg
> > to 36+mpg) by being mandated to go to hybrids
> or
> > from SUVs to small sedans. That would do even
> > more....just sayin'.
>
>
> I think the problem is that the top providers of
> vehicles in that range are not American auto
> companies. But, yes, pushing the MPG more would
> have been helpful.


The dealerships are AMerican..the sales people are American..the sales tax generated end up in American treasuries...some of the stock owners are American.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 02:35PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Bounce House ()
Date: July 31, 2009 02:41PM

I wonder how many dealers assisted in selling $500 POS and splitting the rebate by embedding the split into the price?

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: § ()
Date: July 31, 2009 03:50PM

Another $2BIL approved this afternoon.

So far, this looks like a success for the auto industry and the environment. Now let's just get the rest of the globe on board.

Cash for camels? Cash for carraiges?

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: July 31, 2009 04:09PM

§ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So far, this looks like a success for the auto
> industry and the environment.

There are clear benefits in terms of auto industry sales and a net 10mpg more per vehicle sold. I'm not sure how disposing of 250,000 (and now 750,000) vehicles will help the environment.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: § ()
Date: July 31, 2009 04:18PM

Eh, just throw them in the ocean?

If not, then let's put them into orbit.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: July 31, 2009 05:08PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> § Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So far, this looks like a success for the auto
> > industry and the environment.
>
> There are clear benefits in terms of auto industry
> sales and a net 10mpg more per vehicle sold. I'm
> not sure how disposing of 250,000 (and now
> 750,000) vehicles will help the environment.

Were these cars going to just dissapear if they hadnt been traded in? Of course not...I would guess tht quite a few of these cars woulf just be abandoned...left to rot...so at least this avoids that.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: -,SBS- ()
Date: July 31, 2009 05:55PM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or how many people went out and bought someone's
> used POS for $500 and then turned around and
> turned in for a new car?
>
That won't work, because the clunker has to have been licensed a minimum of 1 year prior to the trade-in.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: July 31, 2009 08:35PM

-,SBS- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Or how many people went out and bought
> someone's
> > used POS for $500 and then turned around and
> > turned in for a new car?
> >
> That won't work, because the clunker has to have
> been licensed a minimum of 1 year prior to the
> trade-in.

Hmm - ok, so get the person with the $500 POS to buy the car, then buy the car from them for $1000 more than they paid. Win-win for both.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: August 01, 2009 08:42AM

Actually car disposal is very efficient. Much of the metal (either aluminum or, usually, steel) in the frame, body, engine block, tranny, axles, brakes, etc gets shredded and sent to steel mills that makes everything from steel beams to washing machine panels. Companies like Nucor and Ameristeel specialize in melting scrap steel.

The catalytic converters contain platinum which is recaptured. Same with the copper wiring and cabling.

The plastic is the remaining unknown. In the metal recycling industries, the plastic and interior stuff is called "fluff". Some is sent to plastic recyclers (especially if its a larg piece (e.g., a quarter panel or a dash). The rest gets pitched.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 11:16AM

Yeah - as a note, "disposal" of the clunker essentially amounts to destroying the engine and have that certified. They have to dump the oil out of the engine, then they put in a compound that, when they fire up the engine for the last time, turns into a glass type substance in the engine and freezes it up. I was reading an article that described the process, and it was one of the reasons the submissions weren't complete yet.

EDIT: Here is the article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=atGyvjeWv3wg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2009 11:18AM by Registered Voter.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 02, 2009 02:30AM

-,SBS- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Or how many people went out and bought
> someone's
> > used POS for $500 and then turned around and
> > turned in for a new car?
> >

Maybe if you live close to the mexican or canadian border, you could game the system by going over the border and buying a car that qualifies for less than the rebate, but anyone that has a car for less than the rebate in this country is now going to raise the price of their car, or just take advantage of the rebate themselves.



> That won't work, because the clunker has to have
> been licensed a minimum of 1 year prior to the
> trade-in.

Do you mean licensed by the person taking advantage of the rebate? Then that eliminates the loophole of buying a shit box over the border or from someone who can't afford to take advantage of the rebate.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: drone ()
Date: August 02, 2009 06:42AM

>>
>>Hmm - ok, so get the person with the $500 POS to buy the car, then buy the car >>from them for $1000 more than they paid. Win-win for both.

Provided 1) You have the cash to give it to person for the entire cost of the new car. 2) They are able to get a loan for car. 3) You guys trust each other explicitly. Once you buy it from them, it becomes a used car, and loan rates are much higher. DMV will be curious about that exchange provided the car is brand new if this starts to happen a lot.

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Re: Cash For Clunkers
Posted by: joe woa ()
Date: August 02, 2009 01:48PM

if some one is driving a clunker it is usualy for a reason what if this shit becomes like the mortgage fuck up and alot of these new cars are reposesed that would be really fucked up this whole plan is STUPID. wasting billions

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