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Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Oblivious ()
Date: July 28, 2009 08:17AM

Have at it you wackos. Stop peeing all over this site with your drivel.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: § ()
Date: July 28, 2009 10:08AM

There you have it folks.

Now that this is settled, what will the rightards come up with next?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: fairfaxdude ()
Date: July 28, 2009 10:24AM

Isn't it obvious?

Obama's "teleprompter actually made in China" rumour in 3...2...1.....

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: fuck democrats ()
Date: July 29, 2009 03:46AM

its not that hes not a natural born citizen oBAMA, its who his ties are with. Check the news, Obama is on his hands and knees trying to talk to the Taliban, Has major ACORN ties, check the book ObamAcorn, newly released. and finally he has appointed communist leaders in the white house. Get Obama the fuck out of the White House.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: July 29, 2009 04:49AM

fuck democrats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> its not that hes not a natural born citizen oBAMA,
> its who his ties are with. Check the news, Obama
> is on his hands and knees trying to talk to the
> Taliban, Has major ACORN ties, check the book
> ObamAcorn, newly released. and finally he has
> appointed communist leaders in the white house.
> Get Obama the fuck out of the White House.


We get it. He's black. He's muslim. He's a socialist. He's a terrorist. He's a whatever the fuck low-education fools fear.

Don't you remember when all the leftards were calling George Bush a fascist?

Stop all this stupid partisan sniping. Either grow up, or get an education, or just shut the fuck up. Stop atcing like the tools being manipulated by both parties.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: spunky ()
Date: July 29, 2009 07:24AM

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuck democrats Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > its not that hes not a natural born citizen
> oBAMA,
> > its who his ties are with. Check the news,
> Obama
> > is on his hands and knees trying to talk to the
> > Taliban, Has major ACORN ties, check the book
> > ObamAcorn, newly released. and finally he has
> > appointed communist leaders in the white house.
> > Get Obama the fuck out of the White House.
>
>
> We get it. He's black. He's muslim. He's a
> socialist. He's a terrorist. He's a whatever the
> fuck low-education fools fear.
>
> Don't you remember when all the leftards were
> calling George Bush a fascist?
>
> Stop all this stupid partisan sniping. Either
> grow up, or get an education, or just shut the
> fuck up. Stop atcing like the tools being
> manipulated by both parties.


Clap! Clap! Clap! Jolly well said!

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Judge Crater ()
Date: July 29, 2009 01:43PM


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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: f dems ()
Date: July 29, 2009 03:32PM

ok forget redvsblue but did you ever, EVER imagine the day America would be begging to have diplomatic talks to known terrorist and people who want to kill us? There is a change going on in Washington, a soft coup where capitalist is almost over, and Obama is leveling the playing field in all major aspects of life. Energy, Health Care, Financial Sector. Throw in Auto-Industry and the Banks he inherited by bonus, Watch OUT!! Obama Now Controls Every Single Aspect Of Your Life.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: § ()
Date: July 29, 2009 04:47PM

I'm glad. We saw what lack of control got us, so keep on leveling.

I don't think terrorists want to kill us, per se. They just want to kill you.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: drank ()
Date: July 29, 2009 05:10PM

§ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't think terrorists want to kill us, per se.
> They just want to kill you.


oh LOL that was so funny. Well i am an American citizen so if they are trying to kill people like me that should be a problem. No one cares though we are negotiating with the same people who are bombing, shooting, killing the young men and woman fighting overseas, and the people in the world trade towers, pentagon.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: § ()
Date: July 29, 2009 05:28PM

Sorry, but I sympathize with them. I'd do the same if say China, for example, invaded our country and tried to engage in a witch hunt on our leader and imposed their values on mine.

Bombing, shooting, killing or even negotiating. It doesn't matter. Anything to get them out of our way of life.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: truth is truth ()
Date: July 29, 2009 06:03PM

The only good American on muslim lands is a dead American. Long Live the IRaqi resistance!

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: July 29, 2009 06:17PM

I'm not going to lie. I would fuck Ann Coulter.

I would fuck her all night long.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: July 29, 2009 06:54PM

Manny, there are a few people out there that believe that makes you gay... look at her throat.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Aliens ()
Date: July 29, 2009 07:12PM

fuck democrats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> its not that hes not a natural born citizen oBAMA,
> its who his ties are with. Check the news, Obama
> is on his hands and knees trying to talk to the
> Taliban, Has major ACORN ties, check the book
> ObamAcorn, newly released. and finally he has
> appointed communist leaders in the white house.
> Get Obama the fuck out of the White House.

You forgot Obama's ties with the aliens in area 51. Democratics are not telling you that Obama sneaks trips in to area 51 every month. Over the last 6 six months he has increased ties with aliens and is now communicating with other galaxies.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: July 29, 2009 07:19PM

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Don't you remember when all the leftards were
> calling George Bush a fascist?
>

No I do not. Care to provide me with a link of more than one politician or "legitimate" news person calling GWB a facist?

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: July 29, 2009 07:51PM

Come on, that one is too easy. Just google "bush fascist".



3:46

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: July 29, 2009 08:20PM

That is why I said "two". Let us make it a tad bit challenging.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: July 29, 2009 09:10PM

It was a very common theme. Take this source for what it is worth and you can throw Kennedy into the very thick mix.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/30/35851/5400

"Kennedy did not say: Bush is a fascist. Instead he said (in sequence):

1. Fascists are corporate plunderers of the commons
2. Mussolini and Hitler were from the fringe radical right, and were irrelevant until corporations bolstered them
3. Bush is a corporate plunderer of the the commons

Read between the lines. The implication can't be mistaken. Kennedy called Bush a fascist, and the progressive Seattle audience clapped and roared approval. "


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5529546/

John Dean, July 2004:

Alluding to John Kerry’s call for muting of anti-Bush rhetoric, Dean said “there’s a few of us” who had called President Bush a “fascist,” but then added Democrats are “not trying to do that, this week anyway.”


There are plenty of examples. Olbermann did it the most directly, but plenty of others were using "Bush" and "fascism" in the same sentence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2009 09:10PM by pgens.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: July 29, 2009 09:19PM

'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 08:33PM by Alias.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: July 29, 2009 11:27PM

f dems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok forget redvsblue but did you ever, EVER imagine
> the day America would be begging to have
> diplomatic talks to known terrorist and people who
> want to kill us?

Yes, and that day came to pass about a year and a half ago, under George Bush, as part of the "surge" strategy, when they PAID the insurgents fighting american soldiers to NOT fight american soldiers.

Do the fringe right people have a reset button that gets hit every time an office changes hands from a republican to a democrat? Or do they just have a double standard? I mean, it's okay if your hero does it, but if the anti-hero does it, it's an evil plan to destroy the country.

I've got news for you -- BOTH parties are working together to destroy the country. They work for corporations, and to a corporation, hundreds of nation states are becoming too unweildy to control. They want just a single governing entity throughout the world. It's much easier to control just one government and have them tailor the rules so you can make more money, than it is to try to control ALL the governments that exist today.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: July 29, 2009 11:54PM

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, and that day came to pass about a year and a
> half ago, under George Bush, as part of the
> "surge" strategy, when they PAID the insurgents
> fighting american soldiers to NOT fight american
> soldiers.

Just a fine point there - they provided funds to the Iraqi government to pay the militias (armed guys with guns and bombs that kept blowing each other up) to become part of the security forces. Lets see - you have no job, you end up spending your time at the local religious center where they give you food, money, and weapons to go kill either the other side, or Americans. You have to admit, in this case the solution was a good one.

>
> Do the fringe right people have a reset button
> that gets hit every time an office changes hands
> from a republican to a democrat? Or do they just
> have a double standard? I mean, it's okay if your
> hero does it, but if the anti-hero does it, it's
> an evil plan to destroy the country.
>

Bad argument. Clinton went into the Balkans and while there were a few naysayers, I don't remember the Republicans having control of the military when they were ordered to go in (without UN sanction) to bomb the Serbs and such. The double standard goes both ways - for instance George Bush proposed changes to Social Security that were first proposed under Clinton, and yet the Democrats fought him tooth and nail on them. When Clinton fired missiles into Iraq, the Democrats chanted all the same reasons for those attacks as were used for the war - yet they all ran away from them once no WMDs were found. I mean - just sayin it is a two way street.

> I've got news for you -- BOTH parties are working
> together to destroy the country. They work for
> corporations, and to a corporation, hundreds of
> nation states are becoming too unweildy to
> control. They want just a single governing entity
> throughout the world. It's much easier to control
> just one government and have them tailor the rules
> so you can make more money, than it is to try to
> control ALL the governments that exist today.

If all that is true - and I don't necessarily believe it is the "parties" doing it, rather than a few leaders in certain places - I have to say I would prefer we leave our government intact and be the leader, then fall in behind the EU, or the Chinese... ya know? And the Democrats were getting a lot more in donations from the Chinese then the Republicans were - just as a side note.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/jan-june98/china_5-19.html

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19980811&slug=2765830

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4264134/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/background.htm

http://www.artistmarket.com/writers/piraino/clintonchina.htm

I looked - and other than a reference to a guy donating to McCain in the last election, the majority of the articles talk about the Chinese contributions and influence over Democrats. Matter of fact, there are still quiet investigations going on (from what I could see) into all the donations received by Obama via the website.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Martian II Probe Team ()
Date: July 29, 2009 11:57PM

This is hank the martian. I am speaking to you in a form you can understand. I am from the planet you call Mars in third sector of quad lon. Me part of many martians now on this sphere. We come in peace. Your Mr Obama has asked us to visit you teleprompter and spread our speak. We need your species to help us. Mars is running out clenas. Help us find more clenas lerie lerir 458t

Now I will put speak my probe
aKON4784 8845 44 4 *7373721=*^%823 40198263 *8383
4it8 tk568 kt85 rfkrt85 edkei8383kei488irkr8 &*^373 *(4842-2 47401 O*82173)@&^*%` (8DJK45-=\8ER8R T8DF7 H54745 A5854 N573 K58 Y9383 O984* U(*&&

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: July 30, 2009 01:32AM

Martian II Probe Team Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is hank the martian. I am speaking to you in
> a form you can understand. I am from the planet
> you call Mars in third sector of quad lon. Me part
> of many martians now on this sphere. We come in
> peace. Your Mr Obama has asked us to visit you
> teleprompter and spread our speak. We need your
> species to help us. Mars is running out clenas.
> Help us find more clenas lerie lerir 458t
>

I think you are looking for spunky ...

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: July 30, 2009 01:48AM

I just realized that it wasn't Bush and Cheney who were behind 9/11.

Obama was the one who did the inside job of 9/11. He knew he could blame the republicans for the patriot act, guantanamo bay prison, waterboarding, domestic warrantless wiretapping and invading Iraq, and then whisk his way into power to enjoy the fruits of his radio-controlled demolition of the world trade center.

He also somehow used kenyan voodoo magic to make the republicans implode our economy and spend billions of dollars to prop up banks as a precedent to his socialist agenda.

Everything that happened before Jan. 20 was actually by Obama's design. He owns it all.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: July 30, 2009 02:06AM

Stop trading barbs with Alias - you are beginning to sound like spunky :)

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: July 30, 2009 02:12AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stop trading barbs with Alias - you are beginning
> to sound like spunky :)

Well, my marine ex-husband does have some sort of conspiracy going with elliot, against me, but other than that, I don't sound like spunky.

The comment I posted above your's wasn't a response to alias. That was a response to the birther nonsense. But I know I've been going back and forth with alias, in jest, on the bird in the rain thread, so I hear you.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: July 31, 2009 11:40PM

Not that I wanted to revive this thread - but I came upon this article today, and it offers a pretty good analysis of the real issues behind why it might be important to look at the reasons why Obama has not allowed Hawaii to release the primary documents supporting his birth certification.

The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=

It's a good article - not a birther article.

Quote

...
The editorial desire to put to rest the “Obama was born in Kenya” canard is justifiable. The overwhelming evidence is that Obama was born an American citizen on Aug. 4, 1961, which almost certainly makes him constitutionally eligible to hold his office. I say “almost certainly” because Obama, as we shall see, presents complex dual-citizenship issues. For now, let’s just stick with what’s indisputable: He was also born a Kenyan citizen. In theory, that could raise a question about whether he qualifies as a “natural born” American — an uncharted constitutional concept.
...

This was another editorial the article referenced:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTRjMTFhMzQxYmEzNjA2YWIwOTU4YWVjNzRmODE2NTI=

Just offered for the folks interested.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 11:50PM by Registered Voter.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: July 31, 2009 11:56PM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not the I wanted to revive this thread - but I
> came upon this article today, and it offers a
> pretty good analysis of the real issues behind why
> it might be important to look at the reasons why
> Obama has not allowed Hawaii to release the
> primary documents supporting his birth
> certification.
>
> The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s
> honesty, not where he was born.
> http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhO
> TQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=
>
> It's a good article - not a birther article.
>
>
> ...
> The editorial desire to put to rest the “Obama was
> born in Kenya” canard is justifiable. The
> overwhelming evidence is that Obama was born an
> American citizen on Aug. 4, 1961, which almost
> certainly makes him constitutionally eligible to
> hold his office. I say “almost certainly” because
> Obama, as we shall see, presents complex
> dual-citizenship issues. For now, let’s just stick
> with what’s indisputable: He was also born a
> Kenyan citizen. In theory, that could raise a
> question about whether he qualifies as a “natural
> born” American — an uncharted constitutional
> concept.
> ...
>
>
> This was another editorial the article
> referenced:
> http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTRjMTFhMzQxY
> mEzNjA2YWIwOTU4YWVjNzRmODE2NTI=
>
> Just offered for the folks interested.


The dual-citizenship red herring is a really lame attempt by the birthers to save their argument with a "yeah, well at the very least, he's kenyan too!" last cry.

Unless he actively applies for citizenship in Kenya based on his father's citizenship, he has never relinquished his citizenship in the US. And, even though the US does not recognize dual-citizenship of American citizens, I don't know that there has ever been a law passed that removes american citizenship from anyone holding a "second" citizenship in another country.

That argument makes about as much sense as saying that since McCain was born in Panama, he has dual citizenship in Panama and the US, and thus would also not have been qualified to be president.

Besides, I could qualify for citizenship in a few European countries based on their requirement that a grandmother or some other not-too-distant relative was a citizen. Does that disqualify me from becoming president?

Nor do the birthers even consider that Kenya may have different rules, and being the son of a kenyan born outside the country might not qualify, without other factors. They are presuming that Kenya must have the same rules that the US does, because, well, this is the greatest country in the world and every other country wishes to emulate us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 11:58PM by Thurston Moore.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:09AM

Read the article. That is not what it discusses either. I only quoted that paragraph to show the article was not about him not being a citizen, and it really isn't about his dual-citizenship either - it just happened that at the end of the paragraph it made note of it, and that it was uncharted territory. Again, that is not what the article is about.

Read a book by its cover much?

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:12AM

Oh yeah, as far as Obama doing nothing to squash the rumors, conspiracy theories and so forth about his birth certificate. Why should he? This plays right into his hands.

Just like the truthers gave Bush a free hand to do just about anything, if these birthers become vocal enough, Obama can dismiss any and all criticism as just more of the same nutjob whackos attacking him.

To many people, it now seems as if there was no legitimate debate against the military commissions act, or invading Iraq, or any Bush policy, because at the time, it was all mixed together with the 9/11 truther rantings and ravings, and equally dismissed along with the truther bullshit.

Want to debate health care? If you don't support it, all I hear is someone ranting about birth certificates. Want to debate carbon credits? If you don't support it, all I hear is someone bitching about how he's a kenyan citizen.

You get the idea. Get enough awareness of this fringe and you can paint the entire other side as part and parcel of that fringe. And thusly dismiss them all.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:19AM

Thurston - if you aren't going to read the article, don't insult me as if you know what I believe. I don't give a flying toot about where Obama was born - his citizenship (or not) is a moot issue at this point.

The article was interesting, and mainly went into some reasons behind why he might not want the information to become public. Either do me the courtesy of reading the article before you start insulting my intelligence, or STFU.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:21AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Read the article. That is not what it discusses
> either. I only quoted that paragraph to show the
> article was not about him not being a citizen, and
> it really isn't about his dual-citizenship either
> - it just happened that at the end of the
> paragraph it made note of it, and that it was
> uncharted territory. Again, that is not what the
> article is about.
>
> Read a book by its cover much?

or its middle name?

This article is simply trying to bend the reasoning of birthers to make it about Obama's honesty.

The excerpt you referenced in your comment was about the only portion that had any reasonable logic to attempt to argue against. All the rest was trying to bend the argument in defense of birthers. He's really a muslim because an administration official said that Obama experienced Islam on three continents. Obama took offense to people using his middle name during the campaign. Blah blah blah.

So are the birthers just trying to get to the bottom of whether he can legitimately hold the office, or are they trying to continue to smear him as a secret-muslim? Or is it just attack with whatever they can get their hands on, throw all of it out there and hope that some of it sticks. And if nothing sticks, just keep throwing it all until someday, hopefully, something will stick?

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:23AM

Quote

...
The mission of National Review has always included keeping the Right honest, which includes debunking crackpot conspiracy theories. The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff. Even Obama’s dual Kenyan citizenship is of dubious materiality: It is a function of foreign law, involving no action on his part (to think otherwise, you’d have to conclude that if Yemen passed a law tomorrow saying, “All Americans — except, of course, Jews — are hereby awarded Yemeni citizenship,” only Jewish Americans could henceforth run for president). In any event, even if you were of a mind to indulge the Kenyan-birth fantasy, stop, count to ten, and think: Hillary Clinton. Is there any chance on God’s green earth that, if Obama were not qualified to be president, the Clinton machine would have failed to get that information out?
...

God you are dense.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:39AM

Since TM wanted to provide his opinion of the article (before he read it) I will also post a couple of more excerpts to make it clear where it went.

Quote

...
Now, let’s address motives for a moment. Are some of those demanding the full state records engaged in a futile quest to prove Obama is not a U.S. citizen? Are they on what the editors call “the hunt for a magic bullet that will make all the unpleasant complications of [Obama’s] election and presidency disappear”? Sure they are. But not everyone who wants to see the full state records falls into that category. I, for one, have very different reasons for being curious.

WHO IS THIS GUY?

Before January 20 of this year, Barack Obama had a negligible public record. He burst onto the national scene what seemed like five minutes before his election to the presidency: a first-term U.S. senator who actually served less than four years in that post — after a short time as a state legislator, some shadowy years as a “community organizer,” and scholastic terms at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard that remain shrouded in mystery. The primary qualification supporters offered for Obama’s candidacy was his compelling life story, as packaged in 850 pages’ worth of the not one but two autobiographies this seemingly unaccomplished candidate had written by the age of 45.

Yet we now know that this life story is chock full of fiction. Typical and disturbing, to take just one example, is the entirely fabricated account in Dreams from My Father of Obama’s first job after college:

"Eventually a consulting house to multinational corporations agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe. As far as I could tell I was the only black man in the company, a source of shame for me but a source of considerable pride for the company’s secretarial pool. They treated me like a son, those black ladies; they told me how they expected me to run the company one day. . . . The company promoted me to the position of financial writer. I had my own office, my own secretary, money in the bank. Sometimes, coming out of an interview with Japanese financiers or German bond traders, I would catch my reflection in the elevator doors — see myself in a suit and tie, a briefcase in my hand — and for a split second I would imagine myself as a captain of industry, barking out orders, closing the deal, before I remembered who it was that I had told myself I wanted to be and felt pangs of guilt for my lack of resolve. . . ."

As the website Sweetness & Light details, this is bunk. Obama did not work at “a consulting house to multinational corporations”; it was, a then-colleague of his has related, “a small company that published newsletters on international business.” He wasn’t the only black man in the company, and he didn’t have an office, have a secretary, wear a suit and tie on the job, or conduct “interviews” with “Japanese financiers or German bond traders” — he was a junior copyeditor.

What’s unnerving about this is that it is so gratuitous. It would have made no difference to anyone curious about Obama’s life that he, like most of us, took a ho-hum entry-level job to establish himself. But Obama lies about the small things, the inconsequential things, just as he does about the important ones — depending on what he is trying to accomplish at any given time.

...

What is supposed to save the country from fraudulence of this sort is the media. Here, though, the establishment press is deep in Obama’s tank — so much so that they can’t even accurately report his flub of a ceremonial opening pitch lest he come off as something less than Sandy Koufax. Astonishingly, reporters see their job not as reporting Obama news but as debunking Obama news, or flat-out suppressing it. How many Americans know, for example, that as a sitting U.S. senator in 2006, Obama interfered in a Kenyan election, publicly ripping the incumbent government (a U.S. ally) for corruption while he was its guest and barnstorming with his preferred candidate: a Marxist now known to have made a secret agreement with Islamists to convert Kenya to sharia law, and whose supporters, upon losing the election, committed murder and mayhem, displacing thousands of Kenyans and plunging their country into utter chaos?

...

The point here is not to join another crackpot conspiracy, the “Obama as Muslim Manchurian Candidate” canard. Obama was only ten years old when he left Indonesia; there is no known evidence of his having made an adult choice to practice Islam, and he is a professed Christian. The point is that he lies elaborately about himself and plainly doesn’t believe it’s important to be straight with the American people — to whom he is constantly making bold promises.

...

There may be perfectly benign answers to all of this. But the real question is: Why don’t the media — the watchdog legions who trekked to Sarah Palin’s Alaska hometown to scour for every kernel of gossip, and who were so desperate for Bush dirt that they ran with palpably forged military records — want to dig into Obama’s background?

Who cares that Hawaii’s full state records would doubtless confirm what we already know about Obama’s birthplace? They would also reveal interesting facts about Obama’s life: the delivering doctor, how his parents described themselves, which of them provided the pertinent information, etc. Wasn’t the press once in the business of interesting — and even not-so-interesting — news?

...

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 01, 2009 01:04AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thurston - if you aren't going to read the
> article, don't insult me as if you know what I
> believe. I don't give a flying toot about where
> Obama was born - his citizenship (or not) is a
> moot issue at this point.
>
> The article was interesting, and mainly went into
> some reasons behind why he might not want the
> information to become public. Either do me the
> courtesy of reading the article before you start
> insulting my intelligence, or STFU.


I didn't attribute the birther nonsense, or even that article, to you. The way you presented it, it seemed like you weren't "owning" it yourself.

If I appeared to attribute their ideas to you, that wasn't my intention.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 01:11AM

I just thought it was credible, did not sound like a crackpot wandering through the woods kind of thing. It asked a legitimate question based on known facts, and then asked the question - why is it that the media would do an anal probe of Bush and Palin, and yet let Obama slide even though he has committed some very obvious manipulations of his life story when it suited him. Why aren't they at least looking into the facts of his life, and putting real information out, "newsworthy" information. Like the article said, there was nothing sinister about what he really did during the one instance - so why did he change it?

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 01, 2009 02:04AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just thought it was credible, did not sound like
> a crackpot wandering through the woods kind of
> thing.

It definitely sounded credible, and from a publisher that some or all would consider legitimate. However, it appeared to be an article that was trying to legitimize portions of the birther rhetoric, or at least intentions.

Maybe that was just due to the author's lazy attempt to coat tail on all the attention recently given to "birthers" (that term only recently became widespread: Newsweek, Bill Maher, several cable news channels, etc. just suddenly in the last week or so began using it.)



> It asked a legitimate question based on
> known facts, and then asked the question - why is
> it that the media would do an anal probe of Bush
> and Palin, and yet let Obama slide even though he
> has committed some very obvious manipulations of
> his life story when it suited him. Why aren't they
> at least looking into the facts of his life, and
> putting real information out, "newsworthy"
> information. Like the article said, there was
> nothing sinister about what he really did during
> the one instance - so why did he change it?


If you meant "anal probe of McCain and Palin", instead of Bush, alright, there's at least some fine lines to argue. There were no anal probings of Bush. That guy skirted through two very contested elections almost unscathed.

As far as the McCain and Palin "anal probings", that much is debatable. McCain really got treated with kid gloves, because of his "POW and veteran" status. Palin did get a lot of scrutiny, but you have to admit, that woman demanded scrutiny. First, beyond the partisan mindlessness, she was just an unknown. Who the fuck was this housewife, turned mayor, turned governor of the least populated state in the US? How did she get onto the national stage when nobody had heard of her UNTIL she was chosen to be the VP candidate??

Second, she made such a big deal about Obama as some sort of foreign born or muslim, that by the very act of calling out someone else, she demanded to be called out herself.

Third, she made so many plays to pander to a very base base that she evoked so much hatred that it only made sense to start up the muckraking journalism because it would sell ad pages in all the magazines and newspapers.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 02:17AM

Yes - she (Palin) had been sort of pre-staged by some folks to be the next best thing since sliced bread. As it turned out she was not even worthy of being the "dough" that bread may have come from. There are some aspects of the hounding that went above and beyond on her.

Regarding Bush, the probing was into things like his drug use, alcohol, National Guard, etc. He didn't really skate through, I mean Dan Rather certainly had a hard on for him.

Obama admitted a lot of his drug use, and questionable activities in a book that few people read (except the media). So he writes a book or so about himself, and that is enough to satisfy the news folks as to who he is? *shrug* I don't really care to see anyone impeached anymore - it has become a tit for tat business that started with Nixon and has not stopped since. Folks need to get a grip. :)

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: August 01, 2009 02:19AM

,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 08:02PM by Alias.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 01, 2009 03:13AM

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thurston wrote:
>
> “We get it. He's black. He's muslim. He's a
> socialist. He's a terrorist. He's a whatever the
> fuck low-education fools fear.”
> ____________
>
> Low-education people, Thurston?
>
> What?
>
> Black people on welfare? Immigrants who don’t
> speak English?
>
> You sound like a freakin racist.


YOU sound like a racist.

Low education people are not a race or group who speaks another language.

Low education people are the people who were too lazy to take advantage of the ubiquitous educational opportunities we pay so dearly for in this country, or were deprived of it by location, parental upbringing, or lack of value for educatin' in their community. It's the people who lack some "book learnin'".

You've met them and went to school with them, yourself. The numb nuts who were more interested in nascar or wrestling, or who couldn't think fast enough to dodge a ball in gym class. They are all around us.

Low education is a PC way of calling someone FUCKING STUPID. It allows, sympathetically, that one might not be completely retarded, they just didn't have the opportunity, or chose to ignore the opportunity, or grew up in a hick town that didn't value education, or otherwise just lacks enough knowledge and common sense to be considered intelligent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2009 03:15AM by Thurston Moore.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: August 01, 2009 03:18AM

]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 07:57PM by Alias.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 01, 2009 03:28AM

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thurston,
>
> Are low education people, white?


First, I hope you didn't misinterpret "You've met them and went to school with them, yourself." I realize I forgot to add, "and we all did."

Second, let's not derail this thread with the 3am nonsense.


To answer your question: Low education people are people. Just fucking people. Black, White, Brown, Asian, European, South American, African, whatever. I'm not talking about any one group. I'm talking about the people that are just FUCKING STUPID.

Stupid people cause more problems than any racial group. Especially since the stupid people within the "majority" generally blame all of the problems their stupidity causes them on all the "minority" people.

If you are white in a white majority country, even with everything stacked in your favor, when you fail for your own stupidity, it could never be because you are stupid, it has to be because the people you are too stupid to understand are doing something to screw with you and take away your ability to function.

Those mexicans that steal jobs from white people? How stupid does that white guy need to be to lose his lawn mowing or dish washing job to a mexican? I mean, really???

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: August 01, 2009 04:07AM

'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 09:00PM by Alias.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:08PM

TM, you are confusing stupidity with mental illness in some cases.

EDIT: many times we refer to these folks as "stupid" - but it isn't so much that they are stupid, they are just "acting stupidly"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2009 12:09PM by Registered Voter.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: August 01, 2009 12:52PM

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alias Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thurston,
> >
> > Are low education people, white?
>
>
> First, I hope you didn't misinterpret "You've met
> them and went to school with them, yourself." I
> realize I forgot to add, "and we all did."
>
> Second, let's not derail this thread with the 3am
> nonsense.
>
>
> To answer your question: Low education people are
> people. Just fucking people. Black, White,
> Brown, Asian, European, South American, African,
> whatever. I'm not talking about any one group.
> I'm talking about the people that are just FUCKING
> STUPID.
>
> Stupid people cause more problems than any racial
> group. Especially since the stupid people within
> the "majority" generally blame all of the problems
> their stupidity causes them on all the "minority"
> people.
>
> If you are white in a white majority country, even
> with everything stacked in your favor, when you
> fail for your own stupidity, it could never be
> because you are stupid, it has to be because the
> people you are too stupid to understand are doing
> something to screw with you and take away your
> ability to function.
>
> Those mexicans that steal jobs from white people?
> How stupid does that white guy need to be to lose
> his lawn mowing or dish washing job to a mexican?
> I mean, really???


Excellent point and well made!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: August 01, 2009 02:06PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
> > Those mexicans that steal jobs from white
> people?
> > How stupid does that white guy need to be to
> lose
> > his lawn mowing or dish washing job to a
> mexican?
> > I mean, really???
>
>
> Excellent point and well made!

Yeah, that would be great, except the folks that were complaining about losing jobs to Hispanics were not just white people.

From 2003
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=21

From 2009:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1120/immigrant-latino-unemployment-rises

Quote

...
Among immigrant Latinos, the share of the working-age population (16 and older) that is employed fell by 2.8 percentage points, from 67.5% in the fourth quarter of 2007 to 64.7% in the fourth quarter of 2008. Among all persons of working age, the employment rate decreased by 1.6 percentage points, from 63.2% to 61.6%, in the first year of the recession.

The recession has also had a strong negative effect on blacks and native-born Hispanics in the labor market. Blacks are currently the only major racial and ethnic group whose unemployment rate is in double digits, 11.5% in the fourth quarter of 2008. Native-born Hispanics had the second highest rate of unemployment (9.5%) in the fourth quarter of 2008. However, changes in the employment rate and other indicators of labor market activity during the recession have been less severe for them than for foreign-born Hispanics
...

I guess the recession fixed that problem of people taking jobs no one else wanted - hmm? Then again, actual (un)employment numbers among Hispanics is probably under reported in any case.

July 2008, The China trade toll: Widespread wage suppression, 2 million jobs lost in the U.S.
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/bp219/

This appears to be the main problem - shifting of US manufacturing jobs out of the country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2009 02:07PM by Registered Voter.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 02, 2009 02:02AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM, you are confusing stupidity with mental
> illness in some cases.
>
> EDIT: many times we refer to these folks as
> "stupid" - but it isn't so much that they are
> stupid, they are just "acting stupidly"


No, there are mental illnesses, and then there are stupid people (and, like your edit says, people acting stupidly).

There are "stupid" people -- maybe capable of being intelligent, but who just aren't -- that lack basic knowledge, have slower or inhibited thinking and reasoning skills, can't process information at the same rate as an average person, etc.

There are people who do stupid things -- a lot of highly educated people are constantly doing stupid shit, but they perform flawlessly at their assigned role or task. I'd say idiot savant, but that is reserved to people with an actual medically diagnosed mental disorder.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2009 02:02AM by Thurston Moore.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Thurston Moore ()
Date: August 02, 2009 02:10AM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, that would be great, except the folks that
> were complaining about losing jobs to Hispanics
> were not just white people.
>

The people that complained about losing jobs to hispanics didn't lose their jobs to hispanics, they lost their jobs to indonesians, indians, chinese, mexicans (in mexico) and anywhere else a job could be shipped overseas to that was cheaper.

Blacks and legal, US born hispanics were not clamoring for dishwashing and groundskeeper jobs. They generally take better paying jobs that require a little more education and trainability, and the ability to speak english.

>
>
> I guess the recession fixed that problem of people
> taking jobs no one else wanted - hmm? Then again,
> actual (un)employment numbers among Hispanics is
> probably under reported in any case.
>
> July 2008, The China trade toll: Widespread wage
> suppression, 2 million jobs lost in the U.S.
> http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/bp219/
>
> This appears to be the main problem - shifting of
> US manufacturing jobs out of the country.


Yes. That really is the main problem. The corporatist elite shipped jobs overseas while stoking resentment of "illegals" to distract those that were losing their jobs to outsourcing. While their jobs were being destroyed, they were fuming and ranting about all those brown people pouring over the borders.

The only people who should complain about illegal immigration should be the American citizens who used to pluck chickens, pick fruit, wash dishes, clean toilets and prep cook at restaurants.

If you had any skilled job or worked in manufacture, you need to hate chinese workers. If you did low level programming or help desk type work, you need to hate indians.

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Re: Official Birther Thread
Posted by: Trash thread ()
Date: August 02, 2009 09:02PM

Trash thread

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