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Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Rod ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:26AM

Then call your congress man and tell them no carbon tax. You can do this simply by calling the congressional switchboard 202 224 3121 and just give them your zip code and they will connect them with your congressman. It's easy and quick

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Dwight. ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:49AM

Can you do a little explaining on the carbon tax

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Rod the Plumber ()
Date: May 14, 2009 12:02PM

.
Attachments:
Joetheplumber3.JPG

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 14, 2009 12:03PM

Do you want to remain dependent on the use of fossil fuels for the reaminder of time? Are you an idealogue hell bent on ensuring there is never a new tax no matter what the cause nor how justified? Then call your congress man and tell them no carbon tax. You can do this simply by calling the congressional switchboard 202 224 3121 and just give them your zip code and they will connect them with your congressman. It's easy and quick

The concept is easy...producers of "green" energy will be allowed to sell "credits" to producers of non-green energy. Thus providing a financial motivation to the producers of green energy and a disincentive to producers of carbon heavy energy.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: tN4yP ()
Date: May 14, 2009 12:13PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The concept is easy...producers of "green" energy
> will be allowed to sell "credits" to producers of
> non-green energy. Thus providing a financial
> motivation to the producers of green energy and a
> disincentive to producers of carbon heavy energy.

Why all the shuck and jive? Why not just tax the source directly? After all, we have no problems taxing the bejesus out of cigarettes, alcohol, and now even sodas because we've decided they're bad for us. Just put a tax directly on oil, natural gas, and coal. That'd be a whole lot simpler to administer than creating a whole new market for indulgences from the Gaia Pope.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 14, 2009 12:24PM

tN4yP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The concept is easy...producers of "green"
> energy
> > will be allowed to sell "credits" to producers
> of
> > non-green energy. Thus providing a financial
> > motivation to the producers of green energy and
> a
> > disincentive to producers of carbon heavy
> energy.
>
> Why all the shuck and jive? Why not just tax the
> source directly? After all, we have no problems
> taxing the bejesus out of cigarettes, alcohol, and
> now even sodas because we've decided they're bad
> for us. Just put a tax directly on oil, natural
> gas, and coal. That'd be a whole lot simpler to
> administer than creating a whole new market for
> indulgences from the Gaia Pope.


Cant really answer your question...but this strategy would not escape the criticism of the anti-tax idealogues

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Smoking Some Pope ()
Date: May 14, 2009 03:13PM

tN4yP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ...for indulgences from the Gaia Pope.

What was that about indulgences?
Attachments:
Pope4.JPG

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: May 14, 2009 10:58PM

I agree that alternative sources of energy need to be found. But, this tax is essentially a use tax. To impose this tax on energy will put an unfair burden on the poor. Use / Sales taxes should be imposed only on nonessential items like a dumbed down luxury tax. I believe these taxes in conjunction with a flat tax would solve a multitude of problems, but it will never happen. Think about all those poor government (IRS) workers that would lose their jobs. (okay, I'm ignoring the impact to all those CPAs, but there are other opportunities out there for them) Why can't our politicians just do the right thing?

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: oaktondad ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:00PM

What did I tell you about posting this late at night woman??????

Now clean the kitchen and put some more beer in the fridge. Don't make me tell you twice.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:01PM

oaktondad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did I tell you about posting this late at
> night woman??????
>
> Now clean the kitchen and put some more beer in
> the fridge. Don't make me tell you twice.


YOU AGAIN??

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: oaktondad ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:11PM

Time to pull out the leather belt.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:20PM

you wish

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: trogdor! ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:38PM

Rod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then call your congress man and tell them no
> carbon tax. You can do this simply by calling the
> congressional switchboard 202 224 3121 and just
> give them your zip code and they will connect them
> with your congressman. It's easy and quick


Oh, this is just the sort of thing we need to get the economy rolling again. Lets make producing the last (3) things this country still makes, more expensive to produce!!

So, let me carry this through to its logical conclusion: Everything will eventually be made in China because US companies will be forced out of business, and HUGE amounts of carbon will be belched into the sky, not only in producing it, but in transporting it the 6,000 miles to the US. Brilliant!

Someone in OMB get's it though. The 'leaked' memo shows that "...making the decision to regulate carbon dioxide under the Clean Air Act for the first time is likely to have serious economic consequences for regulated entities throughout the US economy, including small businesses and small communities.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2009 11:43PM by trogdor!.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: May 14, 2009 11:39PM

okay, that is a great point too! :)

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: May 15, 2009 12:20AM

tN4yP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not just tax the source directly? After all,
> we have no problems taxing the bejesus out of
> cigarettes, alcohol, and now even sodas because
> we've decided they're bad for us. Just put a tax
> directly on oil, natural gas, and coal. That'd be
> a whole lot simpler to administer than creating a
> whole new market for indulgences from the Gaia Pope.


because that would be political suicide. companies would come down on such a proposal like thor's hammer on a mere mortals fragile skull. taxing people is far easier to do because people are unorganized and dont have the resources of mega-corporations.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: vjFtU ()
Date: May 15, 2009 01:00PM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tN4yP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why not just tax the source directly? After all,
> > we have no problems taxing the bejesus out of
> > cigarettes, alcohol, and now even sodas because
> > we've decided they're bad for us. Just put a tax
> > directly on oil, natural gas, and coal. That'd be
> > a whole lot simpler to administer than creating a
> > whole new market for indulgences from the Gaia Pope.
>
> because that would be political suicide.
> companies would come down on such a proposal like
> thor's hammer on a mere mortals fragile skull.
> taxing people is far easier to do because people
> are unorganized and dont have the resources of
> mega-corporations.

But the plan isn't to tax end-users directly, instead it's to instead force non-green companies to buy carbon credits from green companies to offset their non-greenness. It's not up to the average Joe to go out and get carbon offsets for his SUV, instead it's for Ford to get them for building a fleet of them. It's not up to him to buy carbon offsets for heating his home with natural gas, it's up to Washington Gas to do it for distributing that gas. If it were a direct tax, us mere-mortals would directly see and bear the cost.

I guess the real reason for the plan is that the Government gets to create a new bureaucracy to manage and oversee the whole Carbon Credit process and a big new market gets created to trade these credits. As such, folks like Gore get to make tons of money, not because they're really doing anything green, but because they get to manage the process and skim a little off the top for each trade. Think of the NYSE except, instead of stock certificates, everyone's trading Gaia Indulgences.

Oh, and you thought the housing bubble sucked? Just wait for the Carbon Credit bubble. $20/barrel for oil + $120/barrel carbon credit offset. $2500/month to heat your house in the winter because you use that dirty nasty oil heat. Oh, and don't bother going to electric heat because the power plant you get power from uses coal.

I can't wait!

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Genevieve ()
Date: May 15, 2009 01:28PM

I'd happily pay $4 a gallon for gas if I actually thought it would force companies to research alternative energy sources and produce more fuel efficient vehicles.

Plus, maybe it would get a few more of the huge SUVs out of the parking lots so I can see what is coming when I back out.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Date: May 15, 2009 01:35PM

I think the whole cap-in-trade, CO2 trading credits thing is a bunch of bullshit. If the government wants to put a tax on fossil fuels to help pay for alternative energy, that's fine. But to come up with this bullshit of trading credits, etc, is ridiculous. You know how there are 18,000 corporations headquartered at that one small office business in Grand Cayman? Well, expect every major polluter in the world to dump their CO2 debt on Burkina Faso or some other Third World back-water and continue to spew CO2 unabated.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: I Sharted ()
Date: May 15, 2009 02:05PM

.
Attachments:
Goreglobawarming.JPG

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 15, 2009 04:18PM

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that alternative sources of energy need to
> be found. But, this tax is essentially a use tax.
> To impose this tax on energy will put an unfair
> burden on the poor. Use / Sales taxes should be
> imposed only on nonessential items like a dumbed
> down luxury tax. I believe these taxes in
> conjunction with a flat tax would solve a
> multitude of problems, but it will never happen.
> Think about all those poor government (IRS)
> workers that would lose their jobs. (okay, I'm
> ignoring the impact to all those CPAs, but there
> are other opportunities out there for them) Why
> can't our politicians just do the right thing?


You have to wait and see how it is implemented. There may be energy tax credits for the poor. But you are potentially correct.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 15, 2009 04:20PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the whole cap-in-trade, CO2 trading
> credits thing is a bunch of bullshit. If the
> government wants to put a tax on fossil fuels to
> help pay for alternative energy, that's fine. But
> to come up with this bullshit of trading credits,
> etc, is ridiculous. You know how there are 18,000
> corporations headquartered at that one small
> office business in Grand Cayman? Well, expect
> every major polluter in the world to dump their
> CO2 debt on Burkina Faso or some other Third World
> back-water and continue to spew CO2 unabated.


Hasnt the cap and trade strategy been used before? Does anyone know?

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Date: May 15, 2009 04:24PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think the whole cap-in-trade, CO2 trading
> > credits thing is a bunch of bullshit. If the
> > government wants to put a tax on fossil fuels
> to
> > help pay for alternative energy, that's fine.
> But
> > to come up with this bullshit of trading
> credits,
> > etc, is ridiculous. You know how there are
> 18,000
> > corporations headquartered at that one small
> > office business in Grand Cayman? Well, expect
> > every major polluter in the world to dump their
> > CO2 debt on Burkina Faso or some other Third
> World
> > back-water and continue to spew CO2 unabated.
>
>
> Hasnt the cap and trade strategy been used before?
> Does anyone know?


It's been used by the EU. It was a huge fuck-up at first. They say it works now, but who knows.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 15, 2009 04:24PM

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rod Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Then call your congress man and tell them no
> > carbon tax. You can do this simply by calling
> the
> > congressional switchboard 202 224 3121 and just
> > give them your zip code and they will connect
> them
> > with your congressman. It's easy and quick
>
>
> Oh, this is just the sort of thing we need to get
> the economy rolling again. Lets make producing
> the last (3) things this country still makes, more
> expensive to produce!!
>
> So, let me carry this through to its logical
> conclusion: Everything will eventually be made in
> China because US companies will be forced out of
> business, and HUGE amounts of carbon will be
> belched into the sky, not only in producing it,
> but in transporting it the 6,000 miles to the US.
> Brilliant!
>
> Someone in OMB get's it though. The 'leaked' memo
> shows that "...making the decision to regulate
> carbon dioxide under the Clean Air Act for the
> first time is likely to have serious economic
> consequences for regulated entities throughout the
> US economy, including small businesses and small
> communities.”


Well...with the way the Chinese are polluting their country...I think I'll stay here. We either decide to do something about carbon emissions or we dont. And to think that "something" doesnt involve higher energy prices is naive. And it's not as if doing nothing isn't going to cost us something...it will!

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Date: May 15, 2009 04:29PM

The problem with "cap and trade" is it creates a huge loophole that allows big-time polluters to keep polluting, while funneling billions of dollars that will only go to prop up corrupt Third World governments in less developed nations. At the same time, it will depress economic development in the U.S. while doing nothing to address our national debt. It is a huge goat fuck that accomplishes nothing except to enrich the worst people in the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2009 04:29PM by WashingTone Locian.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 15, 2009 07:26PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with "cap and trade" is it creates a
> huge loophole that allows big-time polluters to
> keep polluting, while funneling billions of
> dollars that will only go to prop up corrupt Third
> World governments in less developed nations. At
> the same time, it will depress economic
> development in the U.S. while doing nothing to
> address our national debt. It is a huge goat fuck
> that accomplishes nothing except to enrich the
> worst people in the world.


Explain to me how corrupt 3rd world governments get benifit? No cap and trade expert here...but as you describe polluters are allowed to buy credits "green" energy producers...all I assume are in the US. I do not understand the foreign government involvement.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: May 16, 2009 12:19AM

vjFtU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tN4yP Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> > > Why not just tax the source directly? After all,
> > > we have no problems taxing the bejesus out of
> > > cigarettes, alcohol, and now even sodas because
> > > we've decided they're bad for us. Just put a tax
> > > directly on oil, natural gas, and coal. That'd be
> > > a whole lot simpler to administer than creating a
> > > whole new market for indulgences from the Gaia Pope.
> >
> > because that would be political suicide.
> > companies would come down on such a proposal like
> > thor's hammer on a mere mortals fragile skull.
> > taxing people is far easier to do because people
> > are unorganized and dont have the resources of
> > mega-corporations.

>
> But the plan isn't to tax end-users directly,
> instead it's to instead force non-green companies
> to buy carbon credits from green companies to
> offset their non-greenness.


are you retarded or did you just not read my post?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2009 12:19AM by Gravis.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 11:36AM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with "cap and trade" is it creates a
> huge loophole that allows big-time polluters to
> keep polluting, while funneling billions of
> dollars that will only go to prop up corrupt Third
> World governments in less developed nations. At
> the same time, it will depress economic
> development in the U.S. while doing nothing to
> address our national debt. It is a huge goat fuck
> that accomplishes nothing except to enrich the
> worst people in the world.


I have done some random research on the web...certainly not exhaustive...and have found where these "carbon credits" can be sold internationally. So I guess if some 3rd world corrupt government was a green energy powerhouse of efficiency a company could benefit. I assume also there is some possibility for fraud and abuse. But at the same time I have not found any damning articles where such a thing has actually occured...certainly nothing like the "blood diamonds".

Most articles are in favor of the cap and trade strategy...and it is the way the "world" seems to have decided to manage the implementation of green energy.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 16, 2009 12:43PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have done some random research on the
> web...


Using AOL keywords isn't researching on the internet Vince.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 01:50PM

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I have done some random research on the
> > web...
>
>
> Using AOL keywords isn't researching on the
> internet Vince.


feel free to find some new information...otherwise your comment is worthless.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Wvpue ()
Date: May 16, 2009 04:01PM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> are you retarded or did you just not read my post?

To paraphrase, here's what I understood...

I said "Why not tax the product?" It appeared to me that you said "Because it would be political suicide - taxing individuals is easier." I replied with "This plan doesn't tax individuals, it taxes corporations." Then you called me retarded.

What did I miss?

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: May 16, 2009 05:32PM

Wvpue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "This plan doesn't tax individuals, it taxes corporations."


is "this plan" already in place?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Pro Parker ()
Date: May 16, 2009 05:52PM

Genevieve Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> Plus, maybe it would get a few more of the huge
> SUVs out of the parking lots so I can see what is
> coming when I back out.

Back in.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Aced ()
Date: May 16, 2009 06:18PM

Right, let's reward those who polute the air in the US. Without the carbon tax the US would look like China and citizens would be wearing masks when their outside.


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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Aced ()
Date: May 16, 2009 06:27PM


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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:06PM

I wonder if the Chinese are able to trade excess carbon credits? They certainly might....they have so much pollution that virtaully any improvement might meet and exceed their "goals".

I certainly do undestand better the need to establish fair and realistic goals. Establishing goals too low for a country could generate excessive carbon credits for them.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:09PM

Why are you ragging on the Chinese Vince?

They are Communists, just like you.

They are cruel to animals, like you.

They outlaw firearms for its citizens, like you would like to do with America.

They are racist to certain ethnic groups, like you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:36PM

Well..you got one right...I would pull that gun out of yours and everyone else's hands if i could.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:38PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe for the FFXU crowd I am extreme
> left-wing..but compared to the over all American
> population...I am very midle of the road.

Posted by: Vince(1)
>Well..you got one right...I would pull that gun out of yours and everyone else's >hands if i could.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey
Attachments:
Vince fail.jpg

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:40PM

And the world would be a better place. Remember...guns kill, people make love!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2009 10:41PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:42PM

Are you going to read my PM? All the info is there.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:49PM

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you going to read my PM? All the info is
> there.

I did..for everyone's benefit..it was a short video of two men making love the way two men would make love. I guess furfur would rather shoot a gun then to make love. Each to their own!

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:51PM

LOL!!!!!! How long did bounce around your screen before you were able to click off?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey
Attachments:
pwned.jpg

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:57PM

How old are you? I'd be surprised if you were out of your teens. And to be home bantering with me..sending gay video on a Saturday night..says a lot about you.

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 16, 2009 10:59PM

Better than being 56 years old arguing with teenagers on the internet!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 16, 2009 11:04PM

Well..that's why I want to know...next thing I'll get put on the VA sex abusers list from opening up your e-mails!

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 16, 2009 11:06PM

]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey
Attachments:
fucking_gay.jpg

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: May 17, 2009 12:10AM

Furfur...you're gonna have a great time in college! You do know how to weave a joke!

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Re: Do you want to pay an extra $3000 in taxes? call 202 224 3121
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: May 17, 2009 12:21AM

It just hit me...you asked if I was a teenager. Since you know I own handguns, I'll let you guess what the minimum age is in Virginia to buy a pistol...
Attachments:
your_retarded-einstein.jpg

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