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So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Truth ()
Date: April 26, 2009 12:08AM

Let's cut the shit...is waterboarding torture or not? Let's end this debate here.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 12:15AM

Pouring water over someone to induce a sensation of drowning is not torture.

Read the interrogation methods of the Inquisition or more recently the Khmer Rouge, and then ask if waterboarding is torture.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: conVince ()
Date: April 26, 2009 12:39AM

As long as police officers are allowed to use tazers, I don't think waterboarding should be considered illegal. If you go on YouTube and see demos of people doing it, the level of pain and panic is the same.

Plus I'm not prepared to face a mob of people who lost lives to an attack that we could have had warning of through waterboarding with some pansy argument that "it hurts the bad guys! It scares them!" Fuck that, if it saves one life then waterboard, it's not like it kills them or hurts them at all.

Vince, the one identified mass attack avoided through info from waterboarding was Los Angeles, think of all the illegals saved. It helps everyone.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Eastsider ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:04AM

A taser is used to get someone under control and prevent injury to him and others.

Waterboarding is used to make someone think he's going to die.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: spunky ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:04AM

Yes!

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:04AM

"Waterboarding is used to make someone think he's going to die."

And your point? It is torture? Nope

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Kenny_Powers ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:15AM

Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's cut the shit...is waterboarding torture or
> not? Let's end this debate here.


didnt you just start the debate here?

And yea, i'd classify anything that causes extreme discomfort for prolonged amounts of time as torturous.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Kenny_Powers ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:17AM

conVince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long as police officers are allowed to use
> tazers, I don't think waterboarding should be
> considered illegal. If you go on YouTube and see
> demos of people doing it, the level of pain and
> panic is the same.
>
> Plus I'm not prepared to face a mob of people who
> lost lives to an attack that we could have had
> warning of through waterboarding with some pansy
> argument that "it hurts the bad guys! It scares
> them!" Fuck that, if it saves one life then
> waterboard, it's not like it kills them or hurts
> them at all.
>
> Vince, the one identified mass attack avoided
> through info from waterboarding was Los Angeles,
> think of all the illegals saved. It helps
> everyone.


john stewart made a good point on this the other night. The japanese were water boarding our soldiers in order to prevent attacks from "weapons of mass destruction" during WWII, (we all know how that turned out...) and we charged them with war crimes for doing it. That seems like a good amount of hypocracy on our part.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:18AM

Kenny Powers said:

"And yea, i'd classify anything that causes extreme discomfort for prolonged amounts of time as torturous."

Like reading Vince (1)'s posts...it causes extreme discomfort for long periods, so I guess that is torture.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Truth ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:20AM

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> conVince Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As long as police officers are allowed to use
> > tazers, I don't think waterboarding should be
> > considered illegal. If you go on YouTube and
> see
> > demos of people doing it, the level of pain and
> > panic is the same.
> >
> > Plus I'm not prepared to face a mob of people
> who
> > lost lives to an attack that we could have had
> > warning of through waterboarding with some
> pansy
> > argument that "it hurts the bad guys! It
> scares
> > them!" Fuck that, if it saves one life then
> > waterboard, it's not like it kills them or
> hurts
> > them at all.
> >
> > Vince, the one identified mass attack avoided
> > through info from waterboarding was Los
> Angeles,
> > think of all the illegals saved. It helps
> > everyone.
>
>
> john stewart made a good point on this the other
> night. The japanese were water boarding our
> soldiers in order to prevent attacks from "weapons
> of mass destruction" during WWII, (we all know how
> that turned out...) and we charged them with war
> crimes for doing it. That seems like a good amount
> of hypocracy on our part.


So then, by our own standards, waterboarding is torture. Good insight by John Stewart!

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:21AM

Kenny Powers said:

"john stewart made a good point on this the other night. The japanese were water boarding our soldiers in order to prevent attacks from "weapons of mass destruction" during WWII, (we all know how that turned out...) and we charged them with war crimes for doing it. That seems like a good amount of hypocracy on our part."


*BULLSHIT* *BULLSHIT* Japanese in WWII made Nazis look like boy scouts. Read about the medical experimentation and POW slave labor. Waterboarding was the least of their crimes.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Kenny_Powers ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:28AM

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kenny Powers said:
>
> "john stewart made a good point on this the other
> night. The japanese were water boarding our
> soldiers in order to prevent attacks from "weapons
> of mass destruction" during WWII, (we all know how
> that turned out...) and we charged them with war
> crimes for doing it. That seems like a good amount
> of hypocracy on our part."
>
>
> *BULLSHIT* *BULLSHIT* Japanese in WWII made Nazis
> look like boy scouts. Read about the medical
> experimentation and POW slave labor. Waterboarding
> was the least of their crimes.


im not talking about their other crimes, im talking specifically about waterboarding they did, which they were charged with.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:31AM

Waterboarding is just a piece, a fraction, of their crimes. Being charged with "war crimes" is an umbrella term that covers a multitude of wrongdoings.


Please show me where they were specifically charged with waterboarding, oh that's right, you referenced a comedy central talk show host. :(

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: spunky ()
Date: April 26, 2009 01:51AM

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Waterboarding is just a piece, a fraction, of
> their crimes. Being charged with "war crimes" is
> an umbrella term that covers a multitude of
> wrongdoings.
>
>
> Please show me where they were specifically
> charged with waterboarding, oh that's right, you
> referenced a comedy central talk show host. :(


So, what's your point? Stewart makes a very good and valid point.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: April 26, 2009 02:25AM

\



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 02:51PM by Alias.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 26, 2009 03:01AM

torture or not, we could do much worse things to them but we dont, we have limits.

if the tables were turned, dont doubt for a second they wouldnt torture and kill you. ive seen raw videos of what radical islamists do to "infidels" and it literally made me feel sick. we are at war and i would rather scare the hell out of some radicals or by the off chance someone that's innocent than have unsuspecting civilians getting ripped apart in explosions.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 03:03AM

Gravis said:

"torture or not, we could do much worse things to them but we dont, we have limits."

And the "worse things" are at the CIA black sites no one talks about.
Guantanimo Bay is/was summer camp compared to the places no one knows about.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 26, 2009 03:08AM

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the "worse things" are at the CIA black sites
> no one talks about.
> Guantanimo Bay is/was summer camp compared to the
> places no one knows about.


how could you know what happens is worse when you claim nobody knows what happens there?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 03:15AM

The European Union accused the United States of using old Soviet/KGB prisons in Eastern Europe, such as Romania, Bulgaria, etc. for terrorist prisons.

The CIA has been accused for years of running secret prisons. Really, the eyes of the world are on Guantanimo, nothing is going to happen there.

It has been proven the CIA runs airline shell companies for transporting prisoners around the world...

Terrorists have also been handed over to the Mossad, which has "persuasive" means of interrogation. It is called "torture by proxy."

There is a saying "a good hacker is known to everybody, a great hacker no one knows about." The same goes for terrorists, the real threats we will never know about.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Kenny_Powers ()
Date: April 26, 2009 04:27AM

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Waterboarding is just a piece, a fraction, of
> their crimes. Being charged with "war crimes" is
> an umbrella term that covers a multitude of
> wrongdoings.
>
>
> Please show me where they were specifically
> charged with waterboarding, oh that's right, you
> referenced a comedy central talk show host. :(

here you go fuckstick - from CNN

"BEGALA: We -- our country executed Japanese soldiers who water- boarded American POWs. We executed them for the same crime that we are now committing ourselves. How do you defend that?

We chided Begala slightly because we thought he wasn't quite right on the facts:

Actually, Fleischer could have countered Begala by pointing out that we didn't actually execute the Japanese soldiers convicted of the war crime of waterboarding American prisoners -- we just sentenced them to 15 years' hard labor. "

website address with a clip from the news. is that enough for you douche?

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/correction-we-actually-did-execute-j

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: boredom ()
Date: April 26, 2009 07:52AM

Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's cut the shit...is waterboarding torture or
> not? Let's end this debate here.

The only reason there is debate is that people are too lazy to pick up a dictionary. Waterboarding *is* torture by definition because it makes you think you are drowning, which meets the defition of causing extreme anguish of the mind.

The definition is below. See #4.

tor⋅ture   /ˈtɔrtʃər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tawr-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur⋅ing.
–noun

1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2. a method of inflicting such pain.
3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: April 26, 2009 08:52AM

The argument that terrorist behavior gives us the right to behave contrary to international law is ridiculous. Imagine if we had used that logic during WW II! We would be much further down the slippery slope toward an autocratic and biblical based (an eye for an eye) legal system.

During the last week I have heard republikans justify waterboarding based on fact that our soldiers are trained by exposing them to waterboarding...and we certainly do not torture our soldiers. I am willing to accept that the act of waterboarding can be applied in degrees... I am sure our soldiers are not tortured. If the procedures outlined by the justice department mirrored the training our soldiers are exposed to..it was not torture. However, I am near 100% sure that the Justice Dept guidelines surpassed those military training guidelines and was torture.

Torture is illegal...and this is country of laws. No one..including the President of the United States is above the law...despite republikan dogma. We are duty bound to investigate and prosecute all law breakers....regardless of intent...regardless of knowledge...regardless of official approval. To do less will weaken our republic...and once again put us the slippery slope.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: tito ()
Date: April 26, 2009 09:42AM

While this site gets knocked for a lot of crap, every so often you find a jewel. This would be one of those times. Nice find!

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Furfur Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Waterboarding is just a piece, a fraction, of
> > their crimes. Being charged with "war crimes"
> is
> > an umbrella term that covers a multitude of
> > wrongdoings.
> >
> >
> > Please show me where they were specifically
> > charged with waterboarding, oh that's right,
> you
> > referenced a comedy central talk show host. :(
>
> here you go fuckstick - from CNN
>
> "BEGALA: We -- our country executed Japanese
> soldiers who water- boarded American POWs. We
> executed them for the same crime that we are now
> committing ourselves. How do you defend that?
>
> We chided Begala slightly because we thought he
> wasn't quite right on the facts:
>
> Actually, Fleischer could have countered Begala by
> pointing out that we didn't actually execute the
> Japanese soldiers convicted of the war crime of
> waterboarding American prisoners -- we just
> sentenced them to 15 years' hard labor. "
>
> website address with a clip from the news. is that
> enough for you douche?
>
> http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/correction
> -we-actually-did-execute-j

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 10:31AM

Interesting video. Thanks for posting a link, so many people say the damnest things without providing a reference.

BUT, given the times, a war crimes court would have found any Japanese involved in prisoners of war treatment guilty. The video you have provided is politically slanted against interrogation methods, and I do not trust their sources for saying that we charged Japanese with waterboarding ALONE. Again, waterboarding is in a whole list of crimes they would have been charged with.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: WFB ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:12AM

Pakistan, a country with nuclear weapons, is on the verge of being taken over by the Taliban this idiot government is tying itself into knots over this waterboarding nonsense. Talk about whistling past the graveyard!

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: El Kenny Powers ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:16AM

ok... so heres a washington post article... maybe i can get physical copies of the records and mail them to you.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005.html

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: K to the P ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:17AM

WFB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pakistan, a country with nuclear weapons, is on
> the verge of being taken over by the Taliban this
> idiot government is tying itself into knots over
> this waterboarding nonsense. Talk about whistling
> past the graveyard!


ya you're right, war crimes are for queers.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:20AM

Oh no! Waterboarding with a canteen! The horror!
Attachments:
waterboardinginvietnam.jpg

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: WFB ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:28AM

You libs ranted and raved that Bush didn't do enough to protect this country prior to 9-11, regardless of the fact that he had only been in office 8 months at the time, yet you exhibit all this faux outrage over steps that were taken to prevent another terrorist attack. Steps that were vetted through the highest levels of government, including Congress mind you. If the Democrats carry this banana republic tactic of persecuting their predecessors through it will not only be a disaster for the country but it will be a disaster for the Democrats as well.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Sling ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:31AM

Waterboarding is not torture. My buddy was in Vietnam...the Vietnamese starved a rat, put a plastic bag over my friends head with the rat in it, and the rat nibbled at my buddy's face, ears, lips..all over his face. THAT is torture. Those sadistic bastards. A little splish-splash never hurt anybody. How do you expect a country to be #1, and only play with wiffle-ball bats? Sometimes you gotta throw sand into your oppositions eyes in the sandbox.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: conVince ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:38AM

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> john stewart made a good point on this the other
> night. The japanese were water boarding our
> soldiers in order to prevent attacks from "weapons
> of mass destruction" during WWII, (we all know how
> that turned out...) and we charged them with war
> crimes for doing it. That seems like a good amount
> of hypocracy on our part.

And then you link a Post article that says Ted Kennedy made the point, and Stewart didn't credit him for it. Which is it? Do we need to waterboard you to find out who made the point? Why is John Stewart stealing points from everybody and shopping them as his ideas? Why are you spreading this stuff, now all the pro-terrorist shits in this thread thing John Stewart made a good point.

YOU are the hypocrite, you spread false news and paint them as fact. YOU are a source of misinformation, a liar.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: The power of Kenny ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:46AM

Kenny Powers and Vince (1) are racist.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: War Criminal ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:46AM

Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's cut the shit...is waterboarding torture or
> not? Let's end this debate here.


Yes

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Elvis 2.0 ()
Date: April 26, 2009 12:47PM

No.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: April 26, 2009 03:25PM

WFB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You libs ranted and raved that Bush didn't do
> enough to protect this country prior to 9-11,
> regardless of the fact that he had only been in
> office 8 months at the time, yet you exhibit all
> this faux outrage over steps that were taken to
> prevent another terrorist attack. Steps that were
> vetted through the highest levels of government,
> including Congress mind you. If the Democrats
> carry this banana republic tactic of persecuting
> their predecessors through it will not only be a
> disaster for the country but it will be a disaster
> for the Democrats as well.

He was asleep at the wheel..and used 9/11 for his own political agenda.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: boredom ()
Date: April 26, 2009 04:55PM

Sling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Waterboarding is not torture. My buddy was in
> Vietnam...the Vietnamese starved a rat, put a
> plastic bag over my friends head with the rat in
> it, and the rat nibbled at my buddy's face, ears,
> lips..all over his face. THAT is torture. Those
> sadistic bastards. A little splish-splash never
> hurt anybody. How do you expect a country to be
> #1, and only play with wiffle-ball bats? Sometimes
> you gotta throw sand into your oppositions eyes
> in the sandbox.

You can't say something isn't torture because you know someone who had worse things done to him. If that's the case, I must say, your buddy from Vietnam is a pussy if he thought his experience was torture. It most certainly wasn't.

Torture is being kidnapped and skinned alive over a period of months, having salt poured on your exposed flesh and then cauterized by a blowtorch. Your only food is a shake made from your own flesh and feces. THAT is torture. Those sadistic bastards. A little rat nibbling on the face, eyes, and ears is nothing more than mistreatment.

See? That example trumps yours, so by your own definition, what your friend experienced was not torture.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Billy Bowlegs ()
Date: April 26, 2009 05:02PM

He was asleep at the wheel..and used 9/11 for his own political agenda.

Great job of totally missing the point you idiot!

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: dombore ()
Date: April 26, 2009 05:05PM

I don't see waterboarding anywhere here.
Attachments:
TortureDevices-e.jpg

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 26, 2009 06:22PM

I don't see how anyone could be terrified of water-boarding if they already knew what it was (and I would be shocked to learn that high-level terrorists don't know anything about torture).

They should also be rightly assuming that they won't be allowed to die, because A) they're high-value targets, B) every human rights group in the world would pitch a shit fit, and C) it would result in them being a martyr, emboldening "the cause."

So you get some water on your face and choke for a bit. I'm keeping in mind that they're more than likely beating the shit out of him at the same time, but water-boarding alone shouldn't fall under the same category of old-timey favorites such as "Car Battery Attached To Your Genitals," "Icepick Under Your Finger and Toe Nails," "Power Drill To The Face," and everyone's favorite, "Break All Of Your Bones With A Sledgehammer."

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: April 26, 2009 07:45PM

For some perspective on this discussion, good Post piece by Michael Schauer, former CIA guy in charge of trying to find bin laden.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403459.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: boredom ()
Date: April 26, 2009 08:39PM

The problem with the viewpoints from those in the current government and those in the previous are that they only focus on how to deal with things today. None of them had any plans for the future, for how to change global views to a point that peace starts being the preferred philosophy.

All of the plans focused on two things: "Kill those bitches" and "To kill those bitches we have to catch and interrogate other, less important bitches."

Neither of those plans will work in the long run. You'll piss off other people and in doing so you'll end up perpetuating the very problem you want to end.

Obama's policies *may* be a solution for the long-term, but they allow for more turmoil in the near future.

I guess my point is that if they are going to waterboard people, cover muslims in pig blood, draw and quarter them, whatever, do so in a way that nobody finds out.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Kenny_Powers ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:32PM

WFB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You libs ranted and raved that Bush didn't do
> enough to protect this country prior to 9-11,
> regardless of the fact that he had only been in
> office 8 months at the time, yet you exhibit all
> this faux outrage over steps that were taken to
> prevent another terrorist attack. Steps that were
> vetted through the highest levels of government,
> including Congress mind you. If the Democrats
> carry this banana republic tactic of persecuting
> their predecessors through it will not only be a
> disaster for the country but it will be a disaster
> for the Democrats as well.

First off, im not a liberal, well maybe socially, im a constitutionalist if anything. Secondly, Im not one of those people who said that bush wasnt doing enough, because i think he was doing too much. People are so scared about "terrorism" that they are willing to throw their rights away, sacrificing freedom for safety. If you looked at it by the numbers, if we put as much money into cancer research or even a "wear your seatbelt!" campaign, we would save thousands more lives than we ever saved through terrorist prevention. And dont talk to me about congress approving this, they were not told that waterboarding was a part of this (at least everyone but Pelosi), and also you have to take into account the mob mentality that was in place. It was the same state of mind that let congress approve the war in Iraq.


and to fur fucker, i guess i can throw evidence at you that you said did not exist, then just disreguard it because you dont like the fact that a "comedy show" proved you wrong.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:34PM

Wow, I can feel your fury through the keyboard! Your anger makes me happy. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2009 11:35PM by Furfur.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: April 26, 2009 11:51PM

'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 04:22PM by Alias.

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im helping!
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 27, 2009 12:56AM

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, I can feel your fury through the keyboard!
> Your anger makes me happy. :)

file.php?40,file=1754
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Kenny_Powers ()
Date: April 27, 2009 02:51AM

gravis you have a cute/funny/adorable picture for every occasion, do you have any lesbian owl wedding/funeral pictures with captions on them? I tried to think of something that would make you work.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Kenny_Powers ()
Date: April 27, 2009 02:54AM

and furfur you havent gotten me angry, you have just proven yourself to be a douche of epic proportions who says things then when the facts dont support what you want them to, you just ignore them. you're one of those people that believes if you accept jesus into your heart he forgives you of your sins right?

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Furfur ()
Date: April 27, 2009 05:00AM

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and furfur you havent gotten me angry, you have
> just proven yourself to be a douche of epic
> proportions who says things then when the facts
> dont support what you want them to, you just
> ignore them. you're one of those people that
> believes if you accept jesus into your heart he
> forgives you of your sins right?

You sound like Spunky...pull back your bed, you will see this symbol burned in your floor.
Attachments:
furfur.gif

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 27, 2009 07:55AM

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> do you have any lesbian owl wedding/funeral pictures
> with captions on them?


no.


> I tried to think of something that would make you
> work.


most of the images i post are premade.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: April 27, 2009 09:16AM

I assume the debate is now ended?

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 27, 2009 10:41AM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume the debate is now ended?


yes, and the answers are: yes, no, better them than us and "we could do worse things"


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: April 27, 2009 11:06AM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I assume the debate is now ended?
>
>
> yes, and the answers are: yes, no, better them
> than us and "we could do worse things....and have!"

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 27, 2009 11:54AM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pgens Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I assume the debate is now ended?
> >
> >
> > yes, and the answers are: yes, no, better them
> > than us and "we could do worse things....and
> have to the poor, hard-working illegal aliens who just want to come over and start a better life without the white man or the mother fucking JEWS holding them down!"

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Date: April 27, 2009 11:59AM

I saw Joe Scarborough on MSNBC this morning chiding Obama because Jordan's King Hussein was criticizing the U.S. for torture. Shouldn't Scarborough be criticizing Bush?

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: April 27, 2009 02:02PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw Joe Scarborough on MSNBC this morning
> chiding Obama because Jordan's King Hussein was
> criticizing the U.S. for torture. Shouldn't
> Scarborough be criticizing Bush?

People would rather live in ignorance,then face reality. Scarborough's comments were a reaction to Obama being honest.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Billy Bowlegs ()
Date: April 27, 2009 04:46PM

Kenny Powers is as ignorant and uninformed as Vince. The only difference is Powers can spell properly.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: James West ()
Date: April 27, 2009 06:08PM

So, from the (Obama smokescreen) memo released,

These ten techniques are: (l) attention grasp, (2) walling, (3) facial hold, (4) facial slap (insult slap), (5) cramped confinement, (6) wall standing, (7) stress positions, (8) sleep deprivation, (9) insects placed in a confinement box, and (10) the waterboard.

For the most part, these techniques remind me of various aspects of a person's life while growing up. Simple annoyances. Reminds me of...

1. attention grasp - common way to get the attention of a misbehaving child.

2. walling - commonly practiced in hockey games, but it's called checking into the boards.

3. facial hold - see 1

4. facial slap - a practice often dished out by an offended woman.

5. cramped confinement - see cubicles

6. wall standing - practiced frequently in athletic training and PE classes.

7. stress positions - go visit a yoga class.

8. sleep deprivation - a common practice of first year hospital residents who eventually become sleep deprived Dr.s

9. insects in box - anyone ever gone to summer camp and had to sleep in a tent? Bugs galore.

10. waterboarding - practiced on many members of our military in everyday training.

After looking at this, I'm scratching my head on why Obama even bothered with this. This is like torture kindergarten.

My guess is that he's providing a smokescreen for the real news at this time in order to take the negative news off of him. Not much about the recent economic problems and rash of layoffs. Nothing else makes sense. There's no other reasson I can see for now.

As an aside, they should put another form of acceptable torture, that of sucking brains out of a person with a needle.....very commonly accepted torture practiced in the US.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 27, 2009 08:30PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People would rather live in ignorance,then face
> reality.


all your posts make me think that too.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: April 28, 2009 01:58PM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > People would rather live in ignorance,then face
> > reality.
>
> all your posts make me think that too.

Sorry to tell you this..I am the new reality!

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 28, 2009 03:02PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > People would rather live in ignorance,then
> face
> > > reality.
> >
> > all your posts make me think that too.
>
> Sorry to tell you this..I am the new reality!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA *GASP* HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA *CONVULSIONS* HA HA HA HA HA HA etc...

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: April 28, 2009 07:06PM

Stealing is stealing and torture is torture. Just because someone elses fingers were broken durring torture does not mean waterboarding is not torture.

Remember, Sean hammity "voluteered" to be waterboarded for charity, then quietly backed down when he was told it was not a good idea.

We do not need to argue what is torture. It has been clearly defined already by the United Nations 1987 Conference on torture and a bit more widely defined by the International Committee of the Red Cross.

International Law states: the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.


ICRC says: International humanitarian law (IHL) differs somewhat from this definition in not requiring the involvement of a person acting in an official capacity as a condition for an act intended to inflict severe pain or suffering to be defined as torture.

The ICRC uses the broad term "ill-treatment" to cover both torture and other methods of abuse prohibited by international law, including inhuman, cruel, humiliating, and degrading treatment, outrages upon personal dignity and physical or moral coercion.

The legal difference between torture and other forms of ill treatment lies in the level of severity of pain or suffering imposed. In addition, torture requires the existence of a specific purpose behind the act – to obtain information, for example.

The various terms used to refer to different forms of ill treatment or infliction of pain can be explained as follows:


Torture: existence of a specific purpose plus intentional infliction of severe suffering or pain;
Cruel or inhuman treatment: no specific purpose, significant level of suffering or pain inflicted;
Outrages upon personal dignity: no specific purpose, significant level of humiliation or degradation.

Methods of ill treatment may be both physical and/or psychological in nature and both methods may have physical and psychological effects.

So, to answer your questions - waterboarding is torture. End of Story!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2009 07:11PM by Radiophile.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 28, 2009 07:32PM

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Torture: existence of a specific purpose plus
> intentional infliction of severe suffering or
> pain;

By this definition, though, putting someone in jail is torture. The specific purpose is to punish him for his crime, and for some people, sitting in a jail cell would be severe suffering.

To some people, simulated drowning would be severe suffering.

But, subject yourself to a half hour in a jail cell, a half-hour of water boarding, and a half-hour of having a car battery on your genitals. If you still believe all three should equally be considered torture, then we'll just agree to disagree.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: April 29, 2009 07:43PM


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Re: So, is waterboarding torture or not?
Posted by: Tortured Logic ()
Date: April 30, 2009 07:45PM

Great new bit of information. The two psychologists who devised the "enhanced interrogation techniques? They lied about their qualifications and had NO experience with interrogations and had NO way of knowing the psychological impact of the techniques they were using (look at page 2 for details)....

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7471217&page=1


So basically these guys were the "Brownies" of the intelligence community. Another George W. Bush debacle.

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