Does anyone feel like they are making a difference in the world? I mean, if you knew you are going to die tomorrow, can you look back and realize you did something with your life?
Will anyone remember you? Will anyone honor your memory?
How many people are on earth today....six billion? Do we need this many people on this planet? Aren't we just ants in the whole scheme of things?

what you should be asking yourself is why do you feel the need for validation from an uncaring world?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what you should be asking yourself is why do you
> feel the need for validation from an uncaring
> world?


We are all in it for ourselves, despite what anyone says. John D. Rockefeller gave away millions to improve his own public image. Mother Teresa helped the poor and the ill to improve her image in the eyes of God. With the exception of really close relatives - a mother, a son, a wife, a husband, maybe one or two truly close friends - we simply don't care that much about other people.

So you fellows think feelings/actions such as patriotism....community...charity... are all self engrandizing?

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what you should be asking yourself is why do you
> feel the need for validation from an uncaring
> world?

Exactly.

I can understand Gravis feeling insignificant...he is insignificant. I do not see the world nor the peole in it as uncaring...I see it more an issue of our expectations.

If we look for others approval..if we get our selfworth from things we own...what people say about us...we can only feel insignificant. Personally I dont look to either for self evaluation.

CogNys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone feel like they are making a difference
> in the world? I mean, if you knew you are going to
> die tomorrow, can you look back and realize you
> did something with your life?
> Will anyone remember you? Will anyone honor your
> memory?
> How many people are on earth today....six billion?
> Do we need this many people on this planet? Aren't
> we just ants in the whole scheme of things?


One day, the sun will begin to burn out and become a red giant star. When that happens, it will completely consume the earth. No record will be left behind, no one to honor you. Even William Shakespeare & Hitler will be forgotten. All consumed by the death throes of the star that lives next-door.

So the question really is, if no one is going to remember you (for long) because no one and no record is going to permanently survive....how will you chose to live your life?



So now, a poem:



God's Gift (Maggot)

Twilights last gleaming
Forgotten is the morning dawn
Mercury with no degree
Bloody lies the black sun
Eyes of god
The skies
The limit

Moving backward in a haze
Crawling back against the halo
Your bloody righteous

Absurd man in a cave
Falling back again
Over the chair
The chair backward falling down
Knives in the eyes
Maggots fill the brain

Read real platonic grin
On the floor in a pool of blood
Lifeless grin
Back to the bedroom
With a grin

Where the master
Remarks
Down the phantoms
Living out their miseries
It's hard to fathom what length a man will go
God give the maggots

Eye socket
In the face
Know less and back again
Open wound
In as much
The silence
Backwash
God give the maggots

Description far away
Temples who say
Ghostly remains
A new one rules again
Mellowed and winning
Consolation of life
Prize work
Prize work as seen

Labyrinth
Borrowed
Service
Commerce is the easy road
To destroy
Magick
Collision

Go first maggot
Go first maggot
My friend maggot
Life filled maggot

Author - Nivek Ogre

TheGift Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> One day, the sun will begin to burn out and become
> a red giant star. When that happens, it will
> completely consume the earth. No record will be
> left behind, no one to honor you. Even William
> Shakespeare & Hitler will be forgotten. All
> consumed by the death throes of the star that
> lives next-door.
>

The human race will be extinct long before that happens.

Camus argued that the primary problem of philosophy, and consequently of each man or woman, was that of suicide. The primary question that Socrates asked - what is the good life. The subtext being why is life worth living.

Camus would say that there is no ultimate purpose or concern in the universe. We are fooling ourselves to think so. We should give up hope and live in the present. Life is worth living because it's all we have and ultimately it's liberating.

Then again, he never heard Lady Gaga's Poker Face, so it's understandable that he would think that life was meaningless...

I am Lady Gaga and I have seen and heard of Poker faces and life has meaning, if you aren't a 2-legged dog!

Life is about the positive impact on others, amoungest all the crisis in our world nothing matters except the love of family and friends. Even one person can make a difference.

You all matter to me and I love ya!


Wouldn't it be nice if you could create a family? Everyone should feel a sense of belonging, even animals have that. Some people through no fault of their own end up alone and how great it would be if you could be adopted by other loving souls. No one should feel insignificant, alone or disposable. Although this seems to be the mindset these days, every man (woman) for themselves and Heaven help the children.

This is a very familiar feeling once you hit middle-age, and you look at your position in life compared to your peers, everyone wants to feel like a success and not just average. But average people can become great once they put their mind to it.

I am ready to focus my mind on something great, instead of my mortgage which I need help with and NFCU and won't give it....I wonder why?

Spunky, you seem like a decent well meaning individual. Definitely a minority on this message board.

Craftian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spunky, you seem like a decent well meaning
> individual. Definitely a minority on this message
> board.


One person can make a difference, don't forget that and I love you too Alias!

Even if you try to act normal, but aren't...I think you're special!

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 03:04PM by Alias.

The Prof. wrote:

"I will neither confirm nor deny that allegation. Hey look, an elephant!"

Too bad it wasn't pink.



"Darkness can exist in caves or rooms where the sun doesn't penetrate...."

If you lived inside a cave, darkness would have no meaning. Only, if you wandered out and saw light, would you understand darkness. Darkness would have existed but you would have been unable to identify it.

So... yes, good could exist without evil.... but, again, there would be no concept or understanding of good.

And, without the two opposite poles of good and evil, there can not be a middle.



"Say you are an atheist and you think that Epicurus's dilemma is a powerful argument for the nonexistence of god."

I’m not an atheist and epicurus' problem with evil does not dissuade me from believing in God. But, yes, it is a decent argument.



"This lends support to the idea that we could imagine evil even if it never occurred. If you doubt this, then you'd need to explain the volumes of fiction, science fiction, and fantasy that stock library shelves."

Is Lady Gaga distracting you?

spunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am Lady Gaga and I have seen and heard of Poker
> faces and life has meaning, if you aren't a
> 2-legged dog!
>
> Life is about the positive impact on others,
> amoungest all the crisis in our world nothing
> matters except the love of family and friends.
> Even one person can make a difference.
>
> You all matter to me and I love ya!
>
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if you could create a family?
> Everyone should feel a sense of belonging, even
> animals have that. Some people through no fault
> of their own end up alone and how great it would
> be if you could be adopted by other loving souls.
> No one should feel insignificant, alone or
> disposable. Although this seems to be the mindset
> these days, every man (woman) for themselves and
> Heaven help the children.
>
> This is a very familiar feeling once you hit
> middle-age, and you look at your position in life
> compared to your peers, everyone wants to feel
> like a success and not just average. But average
> people can become great once they put their mind
> to it.
>
> I am ready to focus my mind on something great,
> instead of my mortgage which I need help with and
> NFCU and won't give it....I wonder why?


Maybe its my hangover, but my head hurt a lil more after reading this.

Spunky, are you wearing your tin-foil hoodie again?

Now carry on.

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Prof. wrote:
>
> "I will neither confirm nor deny that allegation.
> Hey look, an elephant!"
>
> Too bad it wasn't pink.

Why you decided to respond to our other discussion in this thread is a question of the ages.

> "Darkness can exist in caves or rooms where the
> sun doesn't penetrate...."
>
> If you lived inside a cave, darkness would have
> no meaning. Only, if you wandered out and saw
> light, would you understand darkness. Darkness
> would have existed but you would have been unable
> to identify it.

So now your contention is that at one point in time light would have to exist in order for us to understand darkness. Right? So light doesn't actually have to exist currently. If that's the case, then using the analogy, evil only had to occur one time.

Also I think this analogy fails since we could know of light through the actions of photons, which is what bounce off objects to be interpreted by our brains through our rods and cones.

In a technical sense, light/dark do not exist, just like good and evil. So your comparison is more apt to support my basic contention.

In any event, this still doesn't refute the notion that (supposing evil is a descriptor of actions) evil is not necessary for only good to exist. As I repeatedly mentioned, knowledge of evil action might be necessary - but the evil action itself is not.

> So... yes, good could exist without evil....
> but, again, there would be no concept or
> understanding of good.
>
> And, without the two opposite poles of good and
> evil, there can not be a middle.

I don't actually think this is true - you first have to refute my second contention, which your above argument doesn't address.

I'll repeat it:

"2. Measure them against the *IDEA* of evil. In this approach, evil actions or 'evil existence' (whatever that means) does not actually have to exist. The ability to conceive of these actions does. "

> "Say you are an atheist and you think that
> Epicurus's dilemma is a powerful argument for the
> nonexistence of god."
>
> I’m not an atheist and epicurus' problem with evil
> does not dissuade me from believing in God. But,
> yes, it is a decent argument.

That's fine, I was making a point as to why this argument might be necessary.

> "This lends support to the idea that we could
> imagine evil even if it never occurred. If you
> doubt this, then you'd need to explain the volumes
> of fiction, science fiction, and fantasy that
> stock library shelves."
>
> Is Lady Gaga distracting you?

???

I think she might be distracting *you* since you responded in the wrong thread.... ;-)

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you fellows think feelings/actions such as
> patriotism....community...charity... are all self
> engrandizing?


Often times the motivations behind patriotism, community and charity are. There is a small percentage of people who do these things because it is "the right thing to do." But often, people use these things to benefit themselves.

Examples include:

- Sarah Palin. Do you really think she wraps herself in the flag of patriotism just to be patriotic? Or does it have some appeal to potential supporters? In contrast, do you really think Barack Obama would have started wearing a flag lapel pin if his not wearing one hadn't become a political liability?

- Regarding charity, do you know that the Smithsonian is actually named after the Smithson family, which started the museum? Why do you think there is a Pew Foundation? Or a Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation? Why did the founders of these things name them after themselves? The Carnegie Libraries?

Yes, many people give strictly out of the goodness of their hearts. But most, the overwhelming majority, give for selfish reasons. Giving to the Boys & Girls Club will get you a tax deduction. Volunteering for the PTA will give you something to brag about to your friends (oh, I'm so committed to my child). Tithing will get you into Heaven.

There is almost always a self-serving reason.

Personally, I have no problem with this. Adam Smith nailed it with "The Invisible Hand." But to think self-motivation isn't a big factor is to be naive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2009 01:15PM by WashingTone Locian.

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So you fellows think feelings/actions such as
> > patriotism....community...charity... are all
> self
> > engrandizing?
>
>
> Often times the motivations behind patriotism,
> community and charity are. There is a small
> percentage of people who do these things because
> it is "the right thing to do." But often, people
> use these things to benefit themselves.
>
> Examples include:
>
> - Sarah Palin. Do you really think she wraps
> herself in the flag of patriotism just to be
> patriotic? Or does it have some appeal to
> potential supporters? In contrast, do you really
> think Barack Obama would have started wearing a
> flag lapel pin if his not wearing one hadn't
> become a political liability?
>
> - Regarding charity, do you know that the
> Smithsonian is actually named after the Smithson
> family, which started the museum? Why do you think
> there is a Pew Foundation? Or a Bill and Melinda
> Gates Foundation? Why did the founders of these
> things name them after themselves? The Carnegie
> Libraries?
>
> Yes, many people give strictly out of the goodness
> of their hearts. But most, the overwhelming
> majority, give for selfish reasons. Giving to the
> Boys & Girls Club will get you a tax deduction.
> Volunteering for the PTA will give you something
> to brag about to your friends (oh, I'm so
> committed to my child). Tithing will get you into
> Heaven.
>
> There is almost always a self-serving reason.
>
> Personally, I have no problem with this. Adam
> Smith nailed it with "The Invisible Hand." But to
> think self-motivation isn't a big factor is to be
> naive.

Well..I dont disagree with you in general...certainly there has to be some self joy/benefit from doing anything and everything. I just hesitiate to assign "some" or "most" to the motivation of others. And I certainly do not see the world through the very dark spectacles of you know who.

This is my purpose in life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furfur

See all of you in hell...

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Well..I dont disagree with you in
> general...certainly there has to be some self
> joy/benefit from doing anything and everything. I
> just hesitiate to assign "some" or "most" to the
> motivation of others. And I certainly do not see
> the world through the very dark spectacles of you
> know who.


I don't see my view as "dark" or "cynical" but as being realistic about human behavior. I would prefer to believe people act out of a sense of self-interest than to fool myself into believing that most people are altruistic only to find myself bitterly disappointed at every turn by the fact they really aren't.

Self motivation is not the only possible human motivation. Ethics and matters of personal conviction are still alive and well in the world. Some humans are more connected to human-kind than others.

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Well..I dont disagree with you in
> > general...certainly there has to be some self
> > joy/benefit from doing anything and everything.
> I
> > just hesitiate to assign "some" or "most" to
> the
> > motivation of others. And I certainly do not
> see
> > the world through the very dark spectacles of
> you
> > know who.
>
>
> I don't see my view as "dark" or "cynical" but as
> being realistic about human behavior. I would
> prefer to believe people act out of a sense of
> self-interest than to fool myself into believing
> that most people are altruistic only to find
> myself bitterly disappointed at every turn by the
> fact they really aren't.


My "dark spectacle" was not directed at you. My only point was that I dont feel comfortable to assigning words like "most" when describing people's motivation...you do! Is that wrong? Actually you are probably right...I choose not to think so...or I hope otherwise.

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is my purpose in life.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furfur
>
> See all of you in hell...

Sorry...but in all probability..there is no hell..nor heaven. And even if there is..you should live your life as if neither exists...I do.

That guy from Craigslist that's a serial killer, the one who was studying to be a Dr., would you say he was evil? I know he is damaged goods, but in a evil way. He didn't care about anyone else other then himself...selfishness is evil.

Vince(1) Wrote:

>
> Sorry...but in all probability..there is no
> hell..nor heaven. And even if there is..you
> should live your life as if neither exists...I do.


I'll make sure I tell my boss you don't believe in hell.

We've got a whole theme park of horrors waiting for you down here Vince.

spunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That guy from Craigslist that's a serial killer,
> the one who was studying to be a Dr., would you
> say he was evil? I know he is damaged goods, but
> in a evil way. He didn't care about anyone else
> other then himself...selfishness is evil.


selfishness is a survival instinct, meant to keep you alive in harsh times. evil is just the word you give things that you dont understand.

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spunky Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That guy from Craigslist that's a serial
> killer,
> > the one who was studying to be a Dr., would you
> > say he was evil? I know he is damaged goods,
> but
> > in a evil way. He didn't care about anyone
> else
> > other then himself...selfishness is evil.
>
>
> selfishness is a survival instinct, meant to keep
> you alive in harsh times. evil is just the word
> you give things that you dont understand.


No, I understand what this evil SOB did and it had nothing to do with survival on his part, only killing.

Not everyone is selfish, just those who are greedy and simple. Look what selfishness and greed has done to our country, and it had nothing to do with survival at the time, but it will. Our country is being destroyed by this mindset. If our forefathers were selfish we wouldn't be where we are now. But it didn't take long for their efforts to be sidetracked by greedy souls.

Selfishness and greed go hand in hand with a sociopathic outlook on life, only caring about one's self, and not realizing about the effects it has on others. The idea of selfishness and greed also go hand in hand with self preservation, if one were to care about the animal he was killing in order to survive, then he would not be able to survive for very long. I believe this crime commited that you referenced is a perversion of this instinct, or maybe just a desire to hold power over another beings life, to play god, if you will (as i believe he was also a medical student, which also to me implies that he had a god complex).

]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 03:07PM by Alias.

my definition of evil is not things that i dont understand, im saying in general, when people do not fully understand something, they usually fear it, thus they classify it as an evil... I'm not that dumb.

]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 03:07PM by Alias.

Furfur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry...but in all probability..there is no
> > hell..nor heaven. And even if there is..you
> > should live your life as if neither exists...I
> do.
>
>
> I'll make sure I tell my boss you don't believe in
> hell.
>
> We've got a whole theme park of horrors waiting
> for you down here Vince.


From your response/comments on here..Id say you were already in hell.

That is correct Vince. Time is ticking for you, I have a corner reserved just for you. :)

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> selfishness is a survival instinct, meant to keep
> you alive in harsh times. evil is just the word
> you give things that you dont understand.


I agree. Though it is a survival instinct that is taken to the extreme that results in the "evil" label.