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Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: 444 Days ()
Date: March 03, 2015 04:55PM

Do we want the people who did this to have nukes?

iran_hostages.jpg

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Ayatollah Assahollah ()
Date: March 03, 2015 04:56PM

Yes to your first question. No to your second question.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Jimmy Carter's nut sack ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:19PM

Most of the kids here are too young.

They think that the Iranians are the good guys because they hate Israel like they've been told that they should too.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: faux news ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:22PM

403e6615c0a7e0d691dcfa81e995584a.jpg

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: lib redux ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:26PM

^ Oh look honey, another dumb libtard named using faux news with a lame meme pic.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: olddudeisold ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:28PM

40 years ago! 40 years before that WWII didn't even start. Time moves on pal...

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: NippleChuck ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:30PM

The president of iran, not even going try and spell that douches name, was one of the activist militants that took the Hostages back then. Carter was President then. More liberal than even Johnston.

Nip

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: ARGO ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:32PM

Argo fuck yourself.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Mohammad Reza Pahlavi ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:36PM

NippleChuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The president of iran, not even going try and
> spell that douches name, was one of the activist
> militants that took the Hostages back then. Carter
> was President then. More liberal than even
> Johnston.
>
> Nip

Shah of Iran

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:43PM

Ock-mah-den-ee-jahd is the name of the president of Iran who was supposed to be linked to the hostage taking.

This is supposed to be him with the briefcase on the right...

Iran-hostage.jpg

Not sure if this was confirmed or just a case of "hey that guy looks just like..."

Iranian-President-Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad2.j


idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM


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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:45PM

Blue Oyster Cult 1980 Divine Wind, a song about the Ayatollah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR2R7iyfE_4


idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM


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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: raicistme ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:47PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ock-mah-den-ee-jahd is the name of the president
> of Iran who was supposed to be linked to the
> hostage taking.
>
> This is supposed to be him with the briefcase on
> the right...
>
> src=https://notevenpast.org/wp-content/uploads/Ira
> n-hostage.jpg>
>
> Not sure if this was confirmed or just a case of
> "hey that guy looks just like..."
>
> src=http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads
> /2012/10/Iranian-President-Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad2.jp
> g>


They all look alike..

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Islamophobic Tards ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:47PM

the shah was just a CIA puppet. Thanks Ugly Americans!

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Muzzie killer ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:57PM

.
Attachments:
Islamophobia2.gif

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: gop guy ()
Date: March 03, 2015 05:58PM

Bibi knows what he's talking about.

As Netanyahu said at the time, “there is no question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking and is working and is advancing towards the development of nuclear weapons — no question whatsoever. If you take out Saddam, Saddam’s regime, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region.”

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: libtards are redundant ()
Date: March 03, 2015 06:00PM

gop guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bibi knows what he's talking about.
>
> As Netanyahu said at the time, “there is no
> question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking and is
> working and is advancing towards the development
> of nuclear weapons — no question whatsoever. If
> you take out Saddam, Saddam’s regime, I
> guarantee you that it will have enormous positive
> reverberations on the region.”

You should stick with faux news.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 03, 2015 06:03PM

gop guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bibi knows what he's talking about.
>
> As Netanyahu said at the time, “there is no
> question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking and is
> working and is advancing towards the development
> of nuclear weapons — no question whatsoever. If
> you take out Saddam, Saddam’s regime, I
> guarantee you that it will have enormous positive
> reverberations on the region.”

All cool and groovy but why has Obama sought at the cabinet level (and VP) Senators who voted for the war in Iraq?

Talking about Kerry, Hillary and Biden if you're slow.....

Taking out Saddam would have been a good thing had not we disbanded the Iraqi army.


Had we just passed the torch to the next Baathist gangster successor after Saddam, things probably would have been light years better.


idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM


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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Bombs are out of the question ()
Date: March 03, 2015 06:44PM

444 Days Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do we want the people who did this to have nukes?
>
> src=http://cdn-2.historyguy.com/iran_hostages.jpg>


Doesn't matter what they did back then, it is how they think today. What worries me about them attaining nuclear bomb capability is their dogma and ideology. Those Arabs are famous for lugging little bombs about and blowing themselves up in addition to innocent civilians. With that mentality they sure as hell would not hesitate to use their entire country as a sacrificial goat, in other words bomb Israel knowing that swift retaliation would eliminate them and Iran from the face of the earth. Especially considering the shit life most of them have, what do they care as long as they believe/convinced they are destined to a better place through their actions.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Bibi the baiter ()
Date: March 03, 2015 06:47PM

The people who did this have nuclear weapons....


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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Real American hero ()
Date: March 03, 2015 06:55PM

Good times
Carter refused to negotiate with terriosts
Reagan had no problem with it

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Lesser of 2 evils ()
Date: March 03, 2015 06:58PM

Bibi the baiter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The people who did this have nuclear weapons....
>
>


Bibi is the lesser of two evils, he is a cold bloodied bastard it is true, that uses his nuclear superiority to keep the Arabs in line. If Iran obtains nuclear capability, he will. or Israel, will not be as aggressive or quick to destroy knowing Iran can retaliate big time. It will promote a more peaceful existence in many ways.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Get Carter ()
Date: March 03, 2015 07:34PM

Real American hero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good times
> Carter refused to negotiate with terriosts
> Reagan had no problem with it

Jimmy Carter

05 JUN 1946 - 8 AUG 1946 -- Commissioned Ensign, USN. Routine post-USNA graduation assignments- indoctrinational training with service type aircraft - leave and transit to first duty station.

8 AUG 1946 - 23 JUL 1947 -- Duty aboard USS Wyoming (E-AG17). Billets Held: Deck Division Officer, Radar Officer, CIC Officer Qualifications: OOD in Port, JOOD underway. Remarks: Detached from Wyoming at ship's decommissioning.

23 JUL 1947 - 14 JUN 1948 -- Duty aboard USS Mississippi (E-AG128). Billets Held: Training and Education Officer Qualifications: OOD underway and in port, CIC watch Officer Remarks: During this tour of duty, Carter was a candidate for a Rhodes Scholarship.

14 JUN 1948 - 17 DEC 1948 -- Duty under instruction at the Officer's course, USN Submarine School, Submarine Base, New London

17? DEC 1948 - 01 FEB 1951 -- Duty aboard USS Pomfret (SS-391) Billets Held: Communications Officer, Electronics Officer, Sonar Officer, Gunnery Officer, First Lieutenant, Electrical Officer, Supply Officer Qualifications: 4 Feb 1950 Qualified in Submarine

05 JUNE 1949 -- Promoted to Lieutenant (j.g.)

01 FEB 1951 - 10 NOV 1951 -- Duty with Shipbuilding and Naval Inspector of Ordnance, Groton, CT as prospective Engineering Officer of the USS K-1 during precommissioning fitting out of the submarine.

10 NOV 1951 - 16 OCT 1952 -- Duty aboard USS K-1(SSK-1) Billets Held: Executive Officer, Engineering Officer, Operations Officer, Gunnery Officer, Electronics Repair Officer Qualifications: Qualified for Command of Submarine Remarks: Submarine was new construction, first vessel of its class

01 JUNE 1952 -- Promoted to Lieutenant

16 OCT 1952 - 08 OCT 1953 -- Duty with US Atomic Energy Commission (Division of Reactor Development, Schenectady Operations Office) From 3 NOV 1952 to 1 MAR 1953 he served on temporary duty with Naval Reactors Branch, US Atomic Energy Commission, Washington, D.C. "assisting in the design and development of nuclear propulsion plants for naval vessels." From 1 MAR 1953 to 8 OCT 1953 he was under instruction to become an engineering officer for a nuclear power plant. He also assisted in setting up on-the-job training for the enlisted men being instructed in nuclear propulsion for the USS Seawolf (SSN575).

9 OCT 1953 -- Honorably discharged at Headquarters, 3rd Naval District. Discharge was at Carter's request. Total service: 7 years, 4 months, 8 days

10 OCT 1953 -- Appointed to US Naval Reserve and placed on inactive duty.

7 DEC 1961 -- Transferred to retired reserve with rank of Lieutenant at his own request, but without pay and allowances in accordance with Title X, U.S.C. section 1376 (a).

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Billy Carter ()
Date: March 03, 2015 07:42PM

Get Carter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Real American hero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Good times
> > Carter refused to negotiate with terriosts
> > Reagan had no problem with it
>
> Jimmy Carter
>
> 05 JUN 1946 - 8 AUG 1946 -- Commissioned Ensign,
> USN. Routine post-USNA graduation assignments-
> indoctrinational training with service type
> aircraft - leave and transit to first duty
> station.
>
> 8 AUG 1946 - 23 JUL 1947 -- Duty aboard USS
> Wyoming (E-AG17). Billets Held: Deck Division
> Officer, Radar Officer, CIC Officer
> Qualifications: OOD in Port, JOOD underway.
> Remarks: Detached from Wyoming at ship's
> decommissioning.
>
> 23 JUL 1947 - 14 JUN 1948 -- Duty aboard USS
> Mississippi (E-AG128). Billets Held: Training and
> Education Officer Qualifications: OOD underway and
> in port, CIC watch Officer Remarks: During this
> tour of duty, Carter was a candidate for a Rhodes
> Scholarship.
>
> 14 JUN 1948 - 17 DEC 1948 -- Duty under
> instruction at the Officer's course, USN Submarine
> School, Submarine Base, New London
>
> 17? DEC 1948 - 01 FEB 1951 -- Duty aboard USS
> Pomfret (SS-391) Billets Held: Communications
> Officer, Electronics Officer, Sonar Officer,
> Gunnery Officer, First Lieutenant, Electrical
> Officer, Supply Officer Qualifications: 4 Feb 1950
> Qualified in Submarine
>
> 05 JUNE 1949 -- Promoted to Lieutenant (j.g.)
>
> 01 FEB 1951 - 10 NOV 1951 -- Duty with
> Shipbuilding and Naval Inspector of Ordnance,
> Groton, CT as prospective Engineering Officer of
> the USS K-1 during precommissioning fitting out of
> the submarine.
>
> 10 NOV 1951 - 16 OCT 1952 -- Duty aboard USS
> K-1(SSK-1) Billets Held: Executive Officer,
> Engineering Officer, Operations Officer, Gunnery
> Officer, Electronics Repair Officer
> Qualifications: Qualified for Command of Submarine
> Remarks: Submarine was new construction, first
> vessel of its class
>
> 01 JUNE 1952 -- Promoted to Lieutenant
>
> 16 OCT 1952 - 08 OCT 1953 -- Duty with US Atomic
> Energy Commission (Division of Reactor
> Development, Schenectady Operations Office) From 3
> NOV 1952 to 1 MAR 1953 he served on temporary duty
> with Naval Reactors Branch, US Atomic Energy
> Commission, Washington, D.C. "assisting in the
> design and development of nuclear propulsion
> plants for naval vessels." From 1 MAR 1953 to 8
> OCT 1953 he was under instruction to become an
> engineering officer for a nuclear power plant. He
> also assisted in setting up on-the-job training
> for the enlisted men being instructed in nuclear
> propulsion for the USS Seawolf (SSN575).
>
> 9 OCT 1953 -- Honorably discharged at
> Headquarters, 3rd Naval District. Discharge was at
> Carter's request. Total service: 7 years, 4
> months, 8 days
>
> 10 OCT 1953 -- Appointed to US Naval Reserve and
> placed on inactive duty.
>
> 7 DEC 1961 -- Transferred to retired reserve with
> rank of Lieutenant at his own request, but without
> pay and allowances in accordance with Title X,
> U.S.C. section 1376 (a).
_________________________________________________________________________

Billy Carter..USMC Pvt...Got drunk a lot.. dreamed of having his own brand of beer.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Balls to the Wall ()
Date: March 03, 2015 07:44PM

Jimmy Carter saved a Nuclear Reactor



“It was the early 1950s … I had only seconds that I could be in the reactor myself. We all went out on the tennis court, and they had an exact duplicate of the reactor on the tennis court. We would run out there with our wrenches and we’d check off so many bolts and nuts and they’d put them back on … And finally when we went down into the reactor itself, which was extremely radioactive, then we would dash in there as quickly as we could and take off as many bolts as we could, the same bolts we had just been practicing on. “Each time our men managed to remove a bolt or fitting from the core, the equivalent piece was removed on the mock-up,” he wrote.

Carter was physically lowered into a damaged nuclear reactor in Chalk River, Ontario, Canada, and exposed to levels of radiation unthinkable today after an accident. "We were fairly well instructed then on what nuclear power was, but for about six months after that I had radioactivity in my urine," President Carter, now 86, told me during an interview for my new book in Plains in 2008. "They let us get probably a thousand times more radiation than they would now. It was in the early stages and they didn't know."

In 1979, when the accident occurred at the Three Mile Island nuclear plant in Pennsylvania, President Jimmy Carter dispatched Harold Denton, the director of the Division of Nuclear Reactor Regulation at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania as his personal representative. The president was frustrated by his inability to establish telephone contact with Pennsylvania Governor Dick Thornburgh. To solve this problem, he ordered dedicated phones lines be connected between the White House, the NRC, and the State House at Harrisburg. On April 1, 1979 Carter inspected the damaged plant.


Carter had steel balls while Reagan had jelly beans.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: 2nd Worst Pres after Obama ()
Date: March 03, 2015 07:46PM

Real American hero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good times
> Carter refused to negotiate with terriosts
> Reagan had no problem with it


Carter did try. He just failed. Multiple times in multiple ways.

They were released the day that Reagan took office.

"On Jan. 20, 1981, Iran released 52 Americans who had been held hostage for 444 days, minutes after the presidency had passed from Jimmy Carter to Ronald Reagan. The hostages were placed on a plane in Tehran as Reagan delivered his inaugural address."

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: I remember ()
Date: March 03, 2015 07:53PM

Hostages were released on the very day of Reagan's swearing in...the country was like: "what the hell happened?" "Do they fear Reagan?", "This don't look good for old Jimmy?" 'Hamilton Jordan was pissed!"

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Shaw shank ()
Date: March 03, 2015 08:03PM

I remember Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hostages were released on the very day of Reagan's
> swearing in...the country was like: "what the hell
> happened?" "Do they fear Reagan?", "This don't
> look good for old Jimmy?" 'Hamilton Jordan was
> pissed!"


Wasn't so much that the feared Reagan, they just hated Carter. They would have released them to anyone but him. Waiting until he was gone was intentional. Substantive negotiations over their return, returning frozen assets, et. al. were effectively done well before, the Iranians just dragged them out until he was gone.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: REMF's ()
Date: March 04, 2015 06:34AM

ARGO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Argo fuck yourself.


The mission to rescue the hostages with helicopters a few months later turned into one major clusterfuck. Direct result of revamping the military after Vietnam.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Gruntled ()
Date: March 04, 2015 06:51AM

I don't think there's anyone in the Iranian government we can deal with, since they are all about as trustworthy as Vladimir Pootin'.

I remember an editorian cartoon several years ago when there was discussion of Iranian "moderates". The Iranian radical had a sign that said "Death to America". The Iranian "moderate" had a sign that said "Serious Injury to America".

Any agreement they sign will be broken before the ink is dry.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: NippleChuck ()
Date: March 04, 2015 07:47AM

Good thread. Good read.
Nip

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 04, 2015 08:33AM

Lots of bogus history. Nobody engineered the embassy takeover. It was an unplanned event done by rioting students during the Iranian Revolution. What passed at the time for a new government had bigger fish to fry in trying to solidify its fragile hold on power, and most expected that the hostages taken would be quickly released. But Khomeini saw a potential use for them as a wedge to discredit moderates in his own and opposition parties. Carter actually negotiated three different release agreements with Iran. As each of the first two was about to go into affect, Khomeini nixed them, as he still felt he needed the hostages for internal reasons. After the second such refusal, Carter okayed the long-shot rescue mission that failed when sand clogged helicopter engines at a staging stop. There were no negotiations for some months after that, but with the third agreement virtually done, Iran dragged it out with increasingly absurd valuations of assets seized that needed to be returned to them. The ayatollah no longer needed the hostages, but with Ted Koppel giving him free air-time every night, he had decided to drag the incident out as a way of punishing Carter for allowing the dying Shah to receive medical attention in the US.

Rumors that Reagan people had gone to Iran with offers of military hardware in exchange for not releasing the hostages prior to the 1980 election were never confirmed. There were however shipments of arms through Israel to Iran just a few weeks after Reagan was inaugurated. He would of course later work out the entirely illegal sale of arms to Iran in order to raise cash to fund his Central American Contra (death squad) efforts.

The 1979 Ahmadinejad photo was just a look-alike. Sort of like human faces carved on the surface of Mars. Sometimes people just see whatever it is they're looking for. He was not present at the embassy take-over. Keep in mind that he stands just 5-foot-2.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: It was sad, so sad ()
Date: March 04, 2015 08:37AM

gop guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bibi knows what he's talking about.
>
> As Netanyahu said at the time, “there is no
> question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking and is
> working and is advancing towards the development
> of nuclear weapons — no question whatsoever. If
> you take out Saddam, Saddam’s regime, I
> guarantee you that it will have enormous positive
> reverberations on the region.”

The lummoxes swallowed all of that one as well. So dumb.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Mega-fail ()
Date: March 04, 2015 08:56AM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All cool and groovy but why has Obama sought at
> the cabinet level (and VP) Senators who voted for
> the war in Iraq?

Read some history, you fucking dumbass. There was no "vote for war". The language was to allow the use of force as a last resort -- after all else had failed. And Bush had the votes needed to pass the resolution in his pocket. There was no drama at all over the outcome. The only issue in the actual floor vote was whether to take Bush at his word and present a united front to the world, or whether to vote one's conscience, recognizing that Bush was a war-hyped serial liar who had no actual intention of seeing whether all else would fail first. History has told us which of those approached was better justified.

> Talking about Kerry, Hillary and Biden if you're slow.....

You're the slow one, asshole. You've been eaten alive by fucking FOX News you worthless simpleton stooge.

> Taking out Saddam would have been a good thing had
> not we disbanded the Iraqi army.

There was no fucking plan. None. Home by Christmas. As in Afghanistan, the military did a wonderful job through "Mission Accomplished". After that, the civilian dickheads just made one complete and gigantic mess of everything.

> Had we just passed the torch to the next Baathist
> gangster successor after Saddam, things probably
> would have been light years better.

The next Baathist gangsters were Uday and Qusay Hussein. We killed them for being even worse than Saddam.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 04, 2015 09:17AM

Mega-fail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All cool and groovy but why has Obama sought at
> > the cabinet level (and VP) Senators who voted
> for
> > the war in Iraq?
>
> Read some history, you fucking dumbass. There was
> no "vote for war". The language was to allow the
> use of force as a last resort -- after all else
> had failed. And Bush had the votes needed to pass
> the resolution in his pocket. There was no drama
> at all over the outcome. The only issue in the
> actual floor vote was whether to take Bush at his
> word and present a united front to the world, or
> whether to vote one's conscience, recognizing that
> Bush was a war-hyped serial liar who had no actual
> intention of seeing whether all else would fail
> first. History has told us which of those
> approached was better justified.
>
> > Talking about Kerry, Hillary and Biden if you're
> slow.....
>
> You're the slow one, asshole. You've been eaten
> alive by fucking FOX News you worthless simpleton
> stooge.
>
> > Taking out Saddam would have been a good thing
> had
> > not we disbanded the Iraqi army.
>
> There was no fucking plan. None. Home by
> Christmas. As in Afghanistan, the military did a
> wonderful job through "Mission Accomplished".
> After that, the civilian dickheads just made one
> complete and gigantic mess of everything.
>
> > Had we just passed the torch to the next
> Baathist
> > gangster successor after Saddam, things
> probably
> > would have been light years better.
>
> The next Baathist gangsters were Uday and Qusay
> Hussein. We killed them for being even worse than
> Saddam.


Wrong and stupid on so many levels I don't know where to start.


Hillary, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid and a host of other senile oldfags with selective memory did indeed vote for war in Iraq..

They knew exactly what they were voting for, there was an amendment by Carl Levin to delay any action pursuant to more UN action, but the Dems wanted to be on the "good and winning side".

Google the Iraq War resolution, Google the Levin Amendment and read for yourself.


And fuck yo self!


idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM


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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Actually... ()
Date: March 04, 2015 09:23AM

Billy Carter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Billy Carter..USMC Pvt...Got drunk a lot.. dreamed
> of having his own brand of beer.

He HAD his own brand of beer...
.
Attachments:
billy_beer.jpg

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: AMERICA WAS INVADED ()
Date: March 04, 2015 09:27AM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of bogus history. Nobody engineered the
> embassy takeover. It was an unplanned event done
> by rioting students during the Iranian Revolution.
> What passed at the time for a new government had
> bigger fish to fry in trying to solidify its
> fragile hold on power, and most expected that the
> hostages taken would be quickly released. But
> Khomeini saw a potential use for them as a wedge
> to discredit moderates in his own and opposition
> parties. Carter actually negotiated three
> different release agreements with Iran. As each
> of the first two was about to go into affect,
> Khomeini nixed them, as he still felt he needed
> the hostages for internal reasons. After the
> second such refusal, Carter okayed the long-shot
> rescue mission that failed when sand clogged
> helicopter engines at a staging stop. There were
> no negotiations for some months after that, but
> with the third agreement virtually done, Iran
> dragged it out with increasingly absurd valuations
> of assets seized that needed to be returned to
> them. The ayatollah no longer needed the
> hostages, but with Ted Koppel giving him free
> air-time every night, he had decided to drag the
> incident out as a way of punishing Carter for
> allowing the dying Shah to receive medical
> attention in the US.
>
> Rumors that Reagan people had gone to Iran with
> offers of military hardware in exchange for not
> releasing the hostages prior to the 1980 election
> were never confirmed. There were however
> shipments of arms through Israel to Iran just a
> few weeks after Reagan was inaugurated. He would
> of course later work out the entirely illegal sale
> of arms to Iran in order to raise cash to fund his
> Central American Contra (death squad) efforts.
>
> The 1979 Ahmadinejad photo was just a look-alike.
> Sort of like human faces carved on the surface of
> Mars. Sometimes people just see whatever it is
> they're looking for. He was not present at the
> embassy take-over. Keep in mind that he stands
> just 5-foot-2.

The Embassy take over was the first time that a muslim nation invaded the U.S. Embassies are sovereign soil of that visiting Nation so Iran did invade America and we really didn't do anything about it. Yes, we did try to rescue the hostages in Operation Eagle Claw but it failed. Another attempt was going to be made but by that time the hostages were released.

That invasion should have declared an all-out-war on Iran but we didn't do it. If we did, who knows what the Middle East would be like.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 04, 2015 09:32AM

You have to remember that Russia went in to Afghanistan right after the hostages were seized.

A U.S. invasion of Iran however justified, could have made the Cold War hot.


idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: April Gillespie ()
Date: March 04, 2015 09:36AM

The US had Iraq invade Iran. Saddam Hussein makes reference to his doing the U.S. a favor in fighting Iran just before he invaded Kuwait.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Mega-fail ()
Date: March 04, 2015 10:01AM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong and stupid on so many levels I don't know
> where to start.

Or where to go next, or where to finish. You've got no fucking clue at all. You are just an ignorant disinformed asshole stooge.

> Hillary, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Chuck Schumer,
> Harry Reid and a host of other senile oldfags with
> selective memory did indeed vote for war in
> Iraq. They knew exactly what they were voting for,
> there was an amendment by Carl Levin to delay any
> action pursuant to more UN action, but the Dems wanted
> to be on the "good and winning side".

Such an illiterate dork-pussy! In early October 2002, Bush was about to go to the UN, supposedly to plead with them to put a "credible threat of force" into their next resolution. He even whined before the Senate vote over how could he go to the UN and ask them for what his own Congress wouldn't give him? Levin and others in the "this guy's a stone-dead liar" caucus wished to force Bush to wait for approval (that he did not and never would have) from the Security Council to undertake military action. But Bush was holding all the fucking cards, as incredibly stupid dimbulbs and assholes simply don't know. So instead of actually pursuing a new resolution, he scuttled the idea. Then he opposed having Hans Blix doing all those weapons inspections in Iraq, and then -- knowing full well that Blix was ultimately going to prove that there were no WMDs in Iraq and that any invasion was completely unjustified and unnecessary -- he jumped the gun and sent inadequately equipped troops with unreinforced armor into harm's way, at a cost of untold numbers of young US lives.

> Google the Iraq War resolution, Google the Levin
> Amendment and read for yourself. And fuck yo self!

I don't need to, asshole. Why don't you just eat my sacred shit, you worthless ignorant dickbrain. You have no other option after all.

Options: ReplyQuote
Border Security is CHEAPER Than Wars
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 04, 2015 10:08AM

Mega-fail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wrong and stupid on so many levels I don't know
> > where to start.
>
> Or where to go next, or where to finish. You've
> got no fucking clue at all. You are just an
> ignorant disinformed asshole stooge.
>
> > Hillary, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Chuck Schumer,
> > Harry Reid and a host of other senile oldfags
> with
> > selective memory did indeed vote for war in
> > Iraq. They knew exactly what they were voting
> for,
> > there was an amendment by Carl Levin to delay
> any
> > action pursuant to more UN action, but the Dems
> wanted
> > to be on the "good and winning side".
>
> Such an illiterate dork-pussy! In early October
> 2002, Bush was about to go to the UN, supposedly
> to plead with them to put a "credible threat of
> force" into their next resolution. He even whined
> before the Senate vote over how could he go to the
> UN and ask them for what his own Congress wouldn't
> give him? Levin and others in the "this guy's a
> stone-dead liar" caucus wished to force Bush to
> wait for approval (that he did not and never would
> have) from the Security Council to undertake
> military action. But Bush was holding all the
> fucking cards, as incredibly stupid dimbulbs and
> assholes simply don't know. So instead of
> actually pursuing a new resolution, he scuttled
> the idea. Then he opposed having Hans Blix doing
> all those weapons inspections in Iraq, and then --
> knowing full well that Blix was ultimately going
> to prove that there were no WMDs in Iraq and that
> any invasion was completely unjustified and
> unnecessary -- he jumped the gun and sent
> inadequately equipped troops with unreinforced
> armor into harm's way, at a cost of untold numbers
> of young US lives.
>
> > Google the Iraq War resolution, Google the
> Levin
> > Amendment and read for yourself. And fuck yo
> self!
>
> I don't need to, asshole. Why don't you just eat
> my sacred shit, you worthless ignorant dickbrain.
> You have no other option after all.




Again, Hillary, Biden, Kerry et al voted to use force in Iraq.

If they voted for the Levin Amendment, they would have had the delay you may be trying to reference above.

I scanned your reply only, I don't read shitty rants from fools....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2015 09:51PM by WingNut.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 04, 2015 10:26AM

AMERICA WAS INVADED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Embassy take over was the first time that a
> muslim nation invaded the U.S. Embassies are
> sovereign soil of that visiting Nation so Iran did
> invade America and we really didn't do anything
> about it.

You are uncommonly stupid. For one thing, the US embassy in Libya was overrun and burned by rioters in 1967 after false rumors circulated that the US had bombed Cairo. That's merely one of a rather large number of attacks on the "sovereign soil" of the US located abroad.

> Yes, we did try to rescue the hostages in Operation
> Eagle Claw but it failed. Another attempt was going
> to be made but by that time the hostages were released.

No, there was no "back up" or "Phase-2" rescue plan. The long-shot plan that Carter ultimately did decide to try was the military's one and only even plausible plan for a hostage rescue. You can see how bad the logistics were for all of that.

> That invasion should have declared an all-out-war
> on Iran but we didn't do it. If we did, who knows
> what the Middle East would be like.

Go play in the backyard, goober. Blowing stuff up is a child's answer to problems. Look what a complete mess the child Bush-43 later made of Iraq. All the things that thoughtful anti-war people warned him of happened. None of the things that the Bushies thought would happen did.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Bad history ()
Date: March 04, 2015 10:36AM

April Gillespie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The US had Iraq invade Iran. Saddam Hussein makes
> reference to his doing the U.S. a favor in fighting
> Iran just before he invaded Kuwait.

It's April Glaspie, you stupid shit. And Saddam invaded Iran in September of 1980, while invading Kuwait in August of 1990. The stupid just keeps on coming.

Meanwhile, we were Saddam's supporters in that first effort -- even giving him helpful materials and advice for use in gassing Iranians and Kurds. We were not supporters of Saddam's efforts in Kuwait.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Mega-fail ()
Date: March 04, 2015 10:42AM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again, Hillary, Biden, Kerry et al voted to use
> force in Iraq.

Again for any total assfuck dumbshits who may be helplessly stumbling about, the resolution was a done fucking deal. The issue was whether to make nice and take Bush at his word or whether to sinmpy spit in his lying face instead.

> If they voted for the Levin Amendment, they would
> have had the delay you may be trying to reference
> above.

The vote on Levin was 74-25 against, you colossal fucking asshole. Bush had the votes in his pocket the whole time. Such an incompetent assfuck.

> I scanned your reply only, I don't read shitty
> rants from fools....

Blow me, you worthless ignorant goober troll-bot.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: old news ()
Date: March 04, 2015 10:50AM

I remember Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hostages were released on the very day of Reagan's
> swearing in...the country was like: "what the hell
> happened?" "Do they fear Reagan?", "This don't
> look good for old Jimmy?" 'Hamilton Jordan was
> pissed!"

The Reagan campaign lobbied Iran to delay the hostage release till after the election.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Susan Rice? Is that you again? ()
Date: March 04, 2015 10:52AM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of bogus history. Nobody engineered the
> embassy takeover. It was an unplanned event done
> by rioting students during the Iranian Revolution.


What? That's absolutely not true. The advance planning by the students is well documented. That includes direct interviews with Asgharzadeh who came up with the idea and the others involved. These aren't some unknown people and they've detailed how it all happened. The long detention of the hostages wasn't planned but the takeover itself absolutely was. It was not the result of some "spontaneous demonstration."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: NippleChuck ()
Date: March 04, 2015 11:03AM

Oh well another decent discussion turned to shit.

Nip

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: iLester ()
Date: March 04, 2015 11:09AM

It was pretty spontaneous. It occurred about 1-2 weeks after the Shah was admitted into the US for medical treatment after he had been shuttled all over the Middle East like a hot potato.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Was it the video? ()
Date: March 04, 2015 11:19AM

iLester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was pretty spontaneous. It occurred about 1-2
> weeks after the Shah was admitted into the US for
> medical treatment after he had been shuttled all
> over the Middle East like a hot potato.


The planning for the takeover by began a month earlier in September - before the shah was permitted to enter the US.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Another Fine Thread Gone Coarse ()
Date: March 04, 2015 11:26AM

NippleChuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh well another decent discussion turned to shit.
>
> Nip


Agreed. Wingnut would fuck up his mother's wet dream's.

Options: ReplyQuote
Border Security is CHEAPER Than Wars
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 04, 2015 11:33AM

Ah, the postures and positions of the Dems are so different in 2015 than they were in 2003....


So why did Hillary, Kerry, Biden and all the other so-called "anti-war" Dems vote against the Levin Amendment that would have delayed a possible Iraq war?

I'll hang up and take my answer off the air, thanks!

jckarnak211.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2015 09:51PM by WingNut.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Eyhwb ()
Date: March 04, 2015 11:57AM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, the postures and positions of the Dems are so
> different in 2015 than they were in 2003....
>
>
> So why did Hillary, Kerry, Biden and all the other
> so-called "anti-war" Dems vote against the Levin
> Amendment that would have delayed a possible Iraq
> war?
>
> I'll hang up and take my answer off the air,
> thanks!
>
> src=http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision
> /images/lowrez/jckarnak211.jpg>


Answer: A combination of buying into the lies of the administration that Iraq had WMD, and fear of being on the wrong side and paying for it badly in the next election. I suppose also that 9/11, which was a very recent event, shaped their thinking. Lot of fear back then. Fear greatly affects the decision process.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: bwjXv ()
Date: March 04, 2015 12:01PM

^^^^^ Clinton and Gore told those same lies in the late 90's about Saddam and WMD then, look it up.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Dumsfeld ()
Date: March 04, 2015 12:29PM

They had our WMDs. Only we can do that to our pledges.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: NippleChuck ()
Date: March 04, 2015 01:20PM

Eyhwb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ah, the postures and positions of the Dems are
> so
> > different in 2015 than they were in 2003....
> >
> >
> > So why did Hillary, Kerry, Biden and all the
> other
> > so-called "anti-war" Dems vote against the
> Levin
> > Amendment that would have delayed a possible
> Iraq
> > war?
> >
> > I'll hang up and take my answer off the air,
> > thanks!
> >
> > >
> src=http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision
>
> > /images/lowrez/jckarnak211.jpg>
>
>
> Answer: A combination of buying into the lies of
> the administration that Iraq had WMD, and fear of
> being on the wrong side and paying for it badly in
> the next election. I suppose also that 9/11,
> which was a very recent event, shaped their
> thinking. Lot of fear back then. Fear greatly
> affects the decision process.


Agreed, good answer.

The same thing is happening now with the Irag / isis scenario. Neither Dems or Repubs don't want to put troops back in the theater due to the up coming elections because both sides will have to answer tough questions about why we didn't finish the job, why we pulled out to early, why we went there in the first place. The whole situation s a quagmire and a lot of good men and women were cast away on Bushes and Cheney's folly. Wolfowitz and Rove concocted the whole WMD bullshit so the "team" could hoodwink the tax payers into believing there was a problem that had to be dealt with. Team Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rove made a ton of cash off that war and created the power vacuum that is now being filled by isis. They had to have known that they would be out of office in 8 years so they went for the brass ring. They should be hanged for treason and war crimes.

Obama wanted to end the conflict and be the hero and make his party the party of choice in 2016 but due to his ideology he planned the withdrawal believing that nirvana would follow our pull out and that he could "talk it out" with whoever took power and that they would listen. Instead we have what we have now and the isis assholes are thumbing their noses at the rest of the world by killing their citizens in the most heinous manners.

The world needs to stand up to these bullies and so far it is beginning to look like Israel is the only country that has the balls necessary to do so and Obama is all butt hurt because BiBi pissed in his sandbox yesterday. At some point the world is going to have to stand up to these cocksuckers in a meaningful way that delivers long term results.

No I don't have the answers on what is the best way to do it but one thing is for sure; All this dem /rep finger pointing and infighting is playing right into their hands and the rest of our enemys are watching and taking note. We are becoming the laughing stock of the world because we keep our balls in a shoe box under our beds.

Nip

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: What does any of the above...... ()
Date: March 04, 2015 01:47PM

Horseshit has to do with the Iranian hostage situation of 1979?
Fucking stupid trolls.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: NippleChuck ()
Date: March 04, 2015 02:28PM

What does any of the above...... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Horseshit has to do with the Iranian hostage
> situation of 1979?
> Fucking stupid trolls.


Not a troll just saying that the same shit and maybe worse is happening right now and we as Americans still don't have a plan to deal with it. Just like then.

Nip

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: FD37t ()
Date: March 04, 2015 02:52PM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AMERICA WAS INVADED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> No, there was no "back up" or "Phase-2" rescue
> plan. The long-shot plan that Carter ultimately
> did decide to try was the military's one and only
> even plausible plan for a hostage rescue. You can
> see how bad the logistics were for all of that.

Hey ass-fuck Matter of Fact read below there was going to be a 2nd attempt but here is why they didn't
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A second rescue attempt that was planned but never attempted used highly modified YMC-130H Hercules aircraft. Outfitted with rocket thrusters fore and aft to allow an extremely short landing and takeoff in the Shahid Shiroudi football stadium located close to the embassy, three aircraft were modified under a rushed super-secret program known as Operation Credible Sport. One aircraft crashed during a demonstration at Duke Field at Eglin Air Force Base Auxiliary Field 3 on October 29, 1980, when its landing braking rockets were fired too soon. The misfire caused a hard touchdown that tore off the starboard wing and started a fire; all on board survived. The impending change in the White House following the November election led to an abandonment of this project.

The failed rescue attempt led to the creation of the 160th S.O.A.R., a helicopter aviation special forces group in the United States Army and the United States Special Operations Command.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: stupid policy ()
Date: March 04, 2015 02:57PM

We have no business in fucking with the middle east. It always backfires on us. We installed the shah through a CIA coup in the 50's (which unseated a democraticaly elected regime) which later led to the hostage crisis. The Arab spring has been an opening for ISIS. We don't need to tell foreign leaders to step down. If a rebel group is not unified to rule or unseat the esablishment in a country, than islamists take over because THEY are unified. Brutal assholes like Hussein and Qadaffi were evil, but they kept the islamists weak and on the run. The neighboring countries should take the lead. We can lend assistance, but our meddling has never worked before. How can it now?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Dreams come true ()
Date: March 04, 2015 03:50PM

Actually... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Billy Carter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Billy Carter..USMC Pvt...Got drunk a lot..
> dreamed
> > of having his own brand of beer.
>
> He HAD his own brand of beer...
> .


Made millions I bet. Wonder if a case of the shit is worth anything as a Pop culture item?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Reagan beats Carter ()
Date: March 04, 2015 03:54PM

Balls to the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimmy Carter saved a Nuclear Reactor
>
>
>
> “It was the early 1950s … I had only seconds
> that I could be in the reactor myself. We all went
> out on the tennis court, and they had an exact
> duplicate of the reactor on the tennis court. We
> would run out there with our wrenches and we’d
> check off so many bolts and nuts and they’d put
> them back on … And finally when we went down
> into the reactor itself, which was extremely
> radioactive, then we would dash in there as
> quickly as we could and take off as many bolts as
> we could, the same bolts we had just been
> practicing on. “Each time our men managed to
> remove a bolt or fitting from the core, the
> equivalent piece was removed on the mock-up,” he
> wrote.
>
> Carter was physically lowered into a damaged
> nuclear reactor in Chalk River, Ontario, Canada,
> and exposed to levels of radiation unthinkable
> today after an accident. "We were fairly well
> instructed then on what nuclear power was, but for
> about six months after that I had radioactivity in
> my urine," President Carter, now 86, told me
> during an interview for my new book in Plains in
> 2008. "They let us get probably a thousand times
> more radiation than they would now. It was in the
> early stages and they didn't know."
>
> In 1979, when the accident occurred at the Three
> Mile Island nuclear plant in Pennsylvania,
> President Jimmy Carter dispatched Harold Denton,
> the director of the Division of Nuclear Reactor
> Regulation at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,
> to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania as his personal
> representative. The president was frustrated by
> his inability to establish telephone contact with
> Pennsylvania Governor Dick Thornburgh. To solve
> this problem, he ordered dedicated phones lines be
> connected between the White House, the NRC, and
> the State House at Harrisburg. On April 1, 1979
> Carter inspected the damaged plant.
>
>
> Carter had steel balls while Reagan had jelly
> beans.


Reagan took a bullet, he should have got the Purple Heart for that. He even joked about it to his wife: "Honey, I forgot to duck!" Reagan era was truly "Camelot" not JFK who almost blew up the world with his arrogance in Bay of Pigs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Behind the seen ()
Date: March 04, 2015 04:21PM

Shaw shank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hostages were released on the very day of
> Reagan's
> > swearing in...the country was like: "what the
> hell
> > happened?" "Do they fear Reagan?", "This don't
> > look good for old Jimmy?" 'Hamilton Jordan was
> > pissed!"
>
>
> Wasn't so much that the feared Reagan, they just
> hated Carter. They would have released them to
> anyone but him. Waiting until he was gone was
> intentional. Substantive negotiations over their
> return, returning frozen assets, et. al. were
> effectively done well before, the Iranians just
> dragged them out until he was gone.

Carter said we would go to war if they put them on trial
Hey no trail

Reagan, supposedly, had a deal in place before the election with Iran to make sure they were not released to help him win the election
Gee what a great guy

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: my thoughts ()
Date: March 04, 2015 04:30PM

I doubt Reagan had a deal. Iran held the hostages after the election and right until minutes after the inauguration. I bet Iran was scared of Reagan more than carter, and since carter was the one that allowed the shah to come to the US, they waited to give him one last insult. Though, its tough to figure what goes on in those peoples minds, their thought process is way different than ours

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Don't get the clap ()
Date: March 04, 2015 04:34PM

Reagan beats Carter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Balls to the Wall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jimmy Carter saved a Nuclear Reactor
> >
> >
> >
> > “It was the early 1950s … I had only
> seconds
> > that I could be in the reactor myself. We all
> went
> > out on the tennis court, and they had an exact
> > duplicate of the reactor on the tennis court.
> We
> > would run out there with our wrenches and
> we’d
> > check off so many bolts and nuts and they’d
> put
> > them back on … And finally when we went down
> > into the reactor itself, which was extremely
> > radioactive, then we would dash in there as
> > quickly as we could and take off as many bolts
> as
> > we could, the same bolts we had just been
> > practicing on. “Each time our men managed to
> > remove a bolt or fitting from the core, the
> > equivalent piece was removed on the mock-up,”
> he
> > wrote.
> >
> > Carter was physically lowered into a damaged
> > nuclear reactor in Chalk River, Ontario,
> Canada,
> > and exposed to levels of radiation unthinkable
> > today after an accident. "We were fairly well
> > instructed then on what nuclear power was, but
> for
> > about six months after that I had radioactivity
> in
> > my urine," President Carter, now 86, told me
> > during an interview for my new book in Plains
> in
> > 2008. "They let us get probably a thousand
> times
> > more radiation than they would now. It was in
> the
> > early stages and they didn't know."
> >
> > In 1979, when the accident occurred at the
> Three
> > Mile Island nuclear plant in Pennsylvania,
> > President Jimmy Carter dispatched Harold
> Denton,
> > the director of the Division of Nuclear Reactor
> > Regulation at the Nuclear Regulatory
> Commission,
> > to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania as his personal
> > representative. The president was frustrated by
> > his inability to establish telephone contact
> with
> > Pennsylvania Governor Dick Thornburgh. To solve
> > this problem, he ordered dedicated phones lines
> be
> > connected between the White House, the NRC, and
> > the State House at Harrisburg. On April 1, 1979
> > Carter inspected the damaged plant.
> >
> >
> > Carter had steel balls while Reagan had jelly
> > beans.
>
>
> Reagan took a bullet, he should have got the
> Purple Heart for that. He even joked about it to
> his wife: "Honey, I forgot to duck!" Reagan era
> was truly "Camelot" not JFK who almost blew up
> the world with his arrogance in Bay of Pigs.

Jelly Bean made Army promotional movies during his enlistment. But he was a very good "B" actor. You don't receive a Purple Heart unless the wound was received in combat.
Nancy did his horoscope every morning.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Carter ()
Date: March 04, 2015 04:44PM

A lot of folks from the South were hoping that Billy would have make a bid for the Presidency

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Yea there was ()
Date: March 04, 2015 05:59PM

my thoughts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt Reagan had a deal. Iran held the hostages
> after the election and right until minutes after
> the inauguration. I bet Iran was scared of Reagan
> more than carter, and since carter was the one
> that allowed the shah to come to the US, they
> waited to give him one last insult. Though, its
> tough to figure what goes on in those peoples
> minds, their thought process is way different than
> ours


There was a deal
It was then that whole arms for hostages, Iran - contra ring a bell
Then we had the drugs coming back on the flights that took the guns down south
A lot of screwed up stuff

Reagan could have made the US and world better but trusted the wrong people

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Not the same deal ()
Date: March 04, 2015 06:12PM

The arms for hostages deal that sent money to the Contras had nothing to do with the American hostages held in 1979/1980.

Completely different deal.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 10:07AM

Susan Rice? Is that you again? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? That's absolutely not true. The advance
> planning by the students is well documented.

Oh dear. These few hundred students went first to the Foreign Ministry. They took three hostages there. On later arrival at the US embassy, their signs and placards made it clear that what they intended was a short-term sit in, something on a lesser scale than the embassy takeover of the previous February in which more than 100 had briefly been held hostage. When Khomeini (who was in the holy city of Qom at the time) was told of the embassy takeover, he ordered his aides to return to Tehran and throw the occupiers out. He changed his mind about twelve hours later, deciding that who needed a relationship with America anyway.

> That includes direct interviews with Asgharzadeh who
> came up with the idea and the others involved.
> These aren't some unknown people and they've
> detailed how it all happened.

Talk to me about Saddam Hussein's butler. Ebrahim Asgharzadeh was a nobody engineering student at the time. Like many young people in Tehran, he became swept up in enthusiasm and fervor for revolution and in one of many diverse revolutionary cliques. He was not part of any command and control structure or any decision-making group. The embassy event itself was an hour to hour and even minute to minute adventure that played out on the fly. In popular terms however, it quickly touched a long-simmering nerve of anti-Americanism, and as it did, it became to Khomeini something that he could use and manipulate in promoting his still shaky position.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 10:10AM

NippleChuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh well another decent discussion turned to shit.

There's always off-roading to turn to when topics get down to actual history rather than silly goober-smack.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 10:15AM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So why did Hillary, Kerry, Biden and all the other
> so-called "anti-war" Dems vote against the Levin
> Amendment that would have delayed a possible Iraq war?

What is it about "having the numbers" that you don't understand? What does one stand to gain or lose by voting in favor of a proposition that has no chance at all of passing?

> I'll hang up and take my answer off the air, thanks!

Your brain is permanently off the air, dumbass.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: March 05, 2015 10:42AM

Matter of fact Wrote:
>
> What is it about "having the numbers" that you
> don't understand? What does one stand to gain or
> lose by voting in favor of a proposition that has
> no chance at all of passing?
>
> > I'll hang up and take my answer off the air,
> thanks!
>
> Your brain is permanently off the air, dumbass.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 05, 2015 10:48AM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So why did Hillary, Kerry, Biden and all the
> other
> > so-called "anti-war" Dems vote against the
> Levin
> > Amendment that would have delayed a possible
> Iraq war?
>
> What is it about "having the numbers" that you
> don't understand? What does one stand to gain or
> lose by voting in favor of a proposition that has
> no chance at all of passing?
>
> > I'll hang up and take my answer off the air,
> thanks!
>
> Your brain is permanently off the air, dumbass.


Hillary, Kerry, Biden and more Dems than I can name all wanted the Iraq invasion, that is why they voted for it.

If Hillary had not voted for the Iraq War she may have been able to beat The Obobo in the 2008 primary.

Honest Dems held her accountable then, dishonest Dems are re-writing history for her NOW.....

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 11:47AM

bwjXv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^^^^ Clinton and Gore told those same lies in the
> late 90's about Saddam and WMD then, look it up.

^^^ This is a ninny claim.

We knew what weapons Saddam had at the end of the Gulf War. This was in part because we had given him weapons and the associated technology needed to use them against Iran. These included chemical weapons precursors and instructions for their manufacture and delivery. In the course of the Gulf War, some stocks of these weapons were seized and destroyed. In the years after the war (1991-98), UNSCOM seized and destroyed even more weapons stocks and facilities. When UNSCOM was finally withdrawn however, there remained a gap between stocks known to have existed and stocks known to have been seized and destroyed.

That gap was an almost perfect match for what the papers of Hussein Kamel reported as having been unilaterally destroyed by Iraq in the weeks after the Gulf War in order to keep them from falling into western hands and being used as justification for harsh treatment. Kamel had for years been Saddam's chief of special weapons. He fled to Jordan with suitcases full of papers in the summer of 1995. He cooperated with UNSCOM and was extensively debriefed by MI6 and the CIA. He was found credible and those of his claims that could be checked out were confirmed. The information he had brought with him was divided into two parts. An unclassified portion dealing with the possession of weapons, and a classified portion dealing with destruction of weapons. The hope that this division would keep Saddam in the dark and therefore nervous and more prone to confess things rather than try to hide them. The classified annex was declassified with little fanfare shortly before the invasion.

So the evidence in total was that Saddam had zero to insignificant weapons left at his disposal and no means with which to build more anytime soon. Bush built all his claims for war on slivers of residual doubt. 99.9% versus 100%. Maybe Kamel was lying even though there was no evidence of that. Maybe UNSCOM had somehow missed things. Maybe, maybe, maybe. No one could absolutely rule out any of that. What virtually everyone came to agree upon and speak about in this light was that Iraq needed to prove that it in fact had no more weapons and was not a threat to its neighbors. This was the track that the UN was on, along with most rational people. These people recognized that the verification process would be slow and bumpy. Bush however wanted none of that. He wanted war and wasn't going to quit until he got it. So he got his disastrous war alright, but what he never got was any weapons. They didn't exist. There never were any. It was all for nothing, and honest people knew that going in.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 05, 2015 11:59AM

Man you fucking libtards.....

Not defending Bush, his strategy for the Iraq occupation was fucked. We should have kept the Iraqi army intact and given the reins of power to the next most responsible military leader.

"Iraq has WMD" was NOT some invention of George W. Bush's imagination. Yes, the yellowcake ended up being BS, but every intel agency from every western European power and Israel agreed that Iraq had WMD unaccounted for.

Clinton's CIA director George Tenet was of the opinion that Iraq had WMD, called the case a "slam dunk"....

Bill Clinton, that's Hillary's hubby launched missile strikes in 1998 with the justification that Saddam had WMD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_(1998)


Most Democrats VOTED for this war.


FACT.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Day Late and whatever ()
Date: March 05, 2015 12:08PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Matter of fact Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WingNut Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > So why did Hillary, Kerry, Biden and all the
> > other
> > > so-called "anti-war" Dems vote against the
> > Levin
> > > Amendment that would have delayed a possible
> > Iraq war?
> >
> > What is it about "having the numbers" that you
> > don't understand? What does one stand to gain
> or
> > lose by voting in favor of a proposition that
> has
> > no chance at all of passing?
> >
> > > I'll hang up and take my answer off the air,
> > thanks!
> >
> > Your brain is permanently off the air, dumbass.
>
>
> Hillary, Kerry, Biden and more Dems than I can
> name all wanted the Iraq invasion, that is why
> they voted for it.
>
> If Hillary had not voted for the Iraq War she may
> have been able to beat The Obobo in the 2008
> primary.
>
> Honest Dems held her accountable then, dishonest
> Dems are re-writing history for her NOW.....

And this has to do with the US Embassy takeover during 1979 how?
So how does the shoot down of the Korean 747 by China in 1984 play into this discussion?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: not that WMD again ()
Date: March 05, 2015 12:24PM

They lied about the WMDs. The only ones they couldn't account for physically were the sites where stockpiles were bombed and couldn't be safely accessed. By 1999, UNSCOM had already said the weapons programs had essentially been shut down. All that remained by 2001 were the nuclear scientists who were still organized to conduct research.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: A Credible Witness ()
Date: March 05, 2015 12:36PM

not that WMD again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They lied about the WMDs. The only ones they
> couldn't account for physically were the sites
> where stockpiles were bombed and couldn't be
> safely accessed. By 1999, UNSCOM had already said
> the weapons programs had essentially been shut
> down. All that remained by 2001 were the nuclear
> scientists who were still organized to conduct
> research.

Bill O'Reilly said Iraq had them so it must be true. He was there!
Bill also covered the IRANIAN hostage crisis for which this thread was originally about. He covered the crisis from Tehran.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 12:47PM

FD37t Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> read below there was going to be a 2nd attempt but here
> is why they didn't

LOL! The ACME Rocket Sled Option? See the words "even plausible" in the earlier post? Try to be at least vaguely serious. This was never ordered and was never considered as any actual plan for response. DOD was embarrassed over the failed mission. They'd put it on the table as a long-shot, but they couldn't even get past a refueling point without losing three of the eight assigned helicopters, causing the mission to be scrubbed on the spot. The administration went back to the diplomatic drawing board and never considered a military option again. DOD went Wile E. Coyote instead.

> The failed rescue attempt led to the creation of
> the 160th S.O.A.R., a helicopter aviation special
> forces group in the United States Army and the
> United States Special Operations Command.

Yippee.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 01:15PM

Reagan beats Carter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reagan took a bullet, he should have got the Purple Heart
> for that.

He was walking out of a hotel On Connecticut Avenue. Not exactly a battle zone.

> Reagan era was truly "Camelot" not JFK who almost blew up
> the world with his arrogance in Bay of Pigs.

You may be thinking of the Cuban Missile Crisis. JFK inherited the Bay of Pigs operation and let it go forward despite his own lack of confidence in the plan. Meanwhile Kennedy turned the dark gray depressing 1950's into a decade of patriotic pride, confidence, and can-do ambition. Reagan by contrast brought on the collapse of our northeast manufacturing corridor and the worst economic decline since the Great Depression. He raised taxes six years in a row, began the attack on unions and the middle class, never lifted a finger against the growing AIDS epidemic, murdered thousands through his illegal Central American death squads, proved that "deficits don't matter" by wasting billions on useless Star Wars nonsense, handed sensitive missile technology to China after the Challenger explosion, never realized that North Korea was building a plutonium reactor, and led us straight into the 1987 stock market crash and then the Savings & Loan debacle. Doesn't quite count as "Camelot". In fact, if Bush-43 had not come along, Reagan would still be in the conversation for Worst President Ever.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Nakoula Basseley Nakoula ()
Date: March 05, 2015 01:20PM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Susan Rice? Is that you again? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What? That's absolutely not true. The advance
> > planning by the students is well documented.
>
> Oh dear. These few hundred students went first to
> the Foreign Ministry. blah blah blah...

So, in other words, you were wrong. It it was planned and wasn't at all "spontaneous."

They planned the takeover in advance. They monitored movements at the embassy in advance. They'd planned how they'd enter in advance. They planned what they'd do once there in advance. They included English-speaking students in the group so that they could communicate inside and out. They'd presented their plan and had the blessing of Khoeiniha in advance. There was nothing "spontaneous" about it.

>
> > That includes direct interviews with Asgharzadeh
> who
> > came up with the idea and the others involved.
> > These aren't some unknown people and they've
> > detailed how it all happened.
>
> Talk to me about Saddam Hussein's butler. Ebrahim
> Asgharzadeh was a nobody engineering student at
> the time. blah blah blah...


Who said that he had to be anything more than that? They had a plan, built a group to carry out their plan, and had tacit approval and support of a cleric who turned out followers to help.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 01:23PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hillary, Kerry, Biden and more Dems than I can
> name all wanted the Iraq invasion, that is why
> they voted for it.

That's assfuck-level STOOPID DRIVEL, which is hardly surprising given what an absolutely worthless colossal assfuck you are. You should really just go fuck yourself, you worse than ignorant little douchebag.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: March 05, 2015 02:04PM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's assfuck-level STOOPID DRIVEL, which is
> hardly surprising given what an absolutely
> worthless colossal assfuck you are. You should
> really just go fuck yourself, you worse than
> ignorant little douchebag.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: wingfatz ()
Date: March 05, 2015 02:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Man you fucking libtards.....
>
> Not defending Bush, his strategy for the Iraq
> occupation was fucked. We should have kept the
> Iraqi army intact and given the reins of power to
> the next most responsible military leader.
>
> "Iraq has WMD" was NOT some invention of George W.
> Bush's imagination. Yes, the yellowcake ended up
> being BS, but every intel agency from every
> western European power and Israel agreed that Iraq
> had WMD unaccounted for.
>
> Clinton's CIA director George Tenet was of the
> opinion that Iraq had WMD, called the case a "slam
> dunk"....
>
> Bill Clinton, that's Hillary's hubby launched
> missile strikes in 1998 with the justification
> that Saddam had WMD.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_(199
> 8)
>
>
> Most Democrats VOTED for this war.
>
>
> FACT.
Attachments:
9452727.jpg

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: On Being Neutered ()
Date: March 05, 2015 02:26PM

Wingnut is the Neut Gringrich of the forum. All talk, never served in the military and a narcissistic asshole. Weight is another factor these two have in common.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 03:10PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Man you fucking libtards.....

Man, you WORTHLESS BRAINDEAD RIGHT-WING ASSFUCKS.....

> We should have kept the Iraqi army intact and given
> the reins of power to the next most responsible
> military leader.

Who was that, you mindless fucking goober-stooge? Muqtada al-Sadr maybe? What a completely clueless braindead dumbass you are!!!

> "Iraq has WMD" was NOT some invention of George W.
> Bush's imagination.

Yes it was, moron. He and his lying henchmen lied and lied and lied and lied about it. Over and over and over again. He planted phony stories in the press, then tried to use the resulting articles as proof of what he claimed. He claimed that agencies such as IAEA had issued reports and warnings that they had never issued. Everything Bush ever said was based on deliberate distortions, misrepresentations, exaggerations, and outright lies. You are one huge simple-minded dumbfuck for having fallen for any of it.

You know, Doug Feith was the whole time down in the Batcave bowels of the Pentagon, taking bullshit nonsense from Curveball, the Iraqi National Congress, and other such vermin, then wrapping it up and passing it on as if it were vetted intelligence. Meanwhile contradictory evidence from actual vetted intelligence was being redacted. Lying to Congress is one offense that the founders actually did name as being the sort of "high crimes and misdemeanors" that would justify impeachment, and Bush did it over and over and over again.

> Yes, the yellowcake ended up being BS...

Bush had been told in October that the yellow-cake claims were based on forged and fraudulent documents, so he took the "16 words" out of a foreign policy speech he was about to give in Cincinnati. Three months later, he turned around and put them right back into the State of the Union address, knowing full well that we was lying through his teeth to the nation and the world by doing so. There are few men of any lower moral fiber than George W Bush.

> but every intel agency from every western European power
> and Israel agreed that Iraq had WMD unaccounted for.

You mean every right-wing assfuck writer on every right-wing assfuck website you've ever read told you that. What a clueless fucking dweeb. I've just told you what the extents of any intelligent assessment of the actual facts was at the time. Read it and fucking LEARN SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE, you colossal goober dumbfuck!

> Clinton's CIA director George Tenet was of the
> opinion that Iraq had WMD, called the case a "slam
> dunk"....

No, Tenet said it would be a "slam dunk" to build a public case for war in light of Saddam's record and Tenet's own December 2002 impressions that the administration had already made the decision to go to war. In actuality, he and his agency were quite guarded in their assumptions that any WMD's were still present in Iraq. Yellow cake was clearly crap. Aluminum tubes were clearly crap. But we didn't have a lot of actual eyes and ears on the ground after UNSCOM (which actually WAS filled with US spies) pulled out. There were just all those satellites and no-fly zone eyes-in-the-skies. As good as those are all in all, they could not conclusively prove an absence of weapons and of course one always wants to err on the side of caution.

> Bill Clinton, that's Hillary's hubby launched
> missile strikes in 1998 with the justification
> that Saddam had WMD.

Such a pathetically childish little ass you are. By December 1998, neither US nor British intelligence could confirm that ANY legitimate WMD targets remained in existence within Iraq. The four days worth of bombing thus targeted "maybe" sites and potential ancillary sites (e.g., Republican Guard outposts) along with general ground-based command and control facilities. There just wasn't much left to blow up any more.

> Most Democrats VOTED for this war.
> FACT.

LOL! The only FACT here is that YOU ARE AN IGNORANT KNOW NOTHING ASSWIPE BUFFOON. Feel free to go fuck yourself, you douchebag hyper-loser.

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Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Bill Clinton ()
Date: March 05, 2015 03:13PM

Please be seated. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Vice President, for your remarks and your leadership. Thank you, Secretary Cohen, for the superb job you have done here at the Pentagon and on this most recent very difficult problem. Thank you, General Shelton, for being the right person at the right time.

Thank you, General Ralston, and the members of the joint chiefs, General Zinni, Secretary Albright, Secretary Slater, DCIA Tenet, Mr. Bowles, Mr. Berger, Senator Robb thank you for being here and Congressman Skelton. Thank you very much, and for your years of service to America and your passionate patriotism both of you. And to the members of our armed forces and others who work here to protect our national security.

I have just received a very fine briefing from our military leadership on the status of our forces in the Persian Gulf. Before I left the Pentagon, I wanted to talk to you and all those whom you represent the men and women of our military. You, your friends and your colleagues are on the front lines of this crisis in Iraq.

I want you, and I want the American people, to hear directly from me what is at stake for America in the Persian Gulf, what we are doing to protect the peace, the security, the freedom we cherish, why we have taken the position we have taken.

I was thinking as I sat up here on the platform, of the slogan that the first lady gave me for her project on the millennium, which was, remembering the past and imagining the future.

Now, for that project, that means preserving the Star Spangled Banner and the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and it means making an unprecedented commitment to medical research and to get the best of the new technology. But that's not a bad slogan for us when we deal with more sober, more difficult, more dangerous matters.

Those who have questioned the United States in this moment, I would argue, are living only in the moment. They have neither remembered the past nor imagined the future.

So first, let's just take a step back and consider why meeting the threat posed by Saddam Hussein is important to our security in the new era we are entering.

This is a time of tremendous promise for America. The superpower confrontation has ended; on every continent democracy is securing for more and more people the basic freedoms we Americans have come to take for granted. Bit by bit the information age is chipping away at the barriers economic, political and social that once kept people locked in and freedom and prosperity locked out.

But for all our promise, all our opportunity, people in this room know very well that this is not a time free from peril, especially as a result of reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.

We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century. They feed on the free flow of information and technology. They actually take advantage of the freer movement of people, information and ideas.

And they will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen.

There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq. His regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region and the security of all the rest of us.

I want the American people to understand first the past how did this crisis come about?

And I want them to understand what we must do to protect the national interest, and indeed the interest of all freedom-loving people in the world.

Remember, as a condition of the cease-fire after the Gulf War, the United Nations demanded not the United States the United Nations demanded, and Saddam Hussein agreed to declare within 15 days this is way back in 1991 within 15 days his nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them, to make a total declaration. That's what he promised to do.

The United Nations set up a special commission of highly trained international experts called UNSCOM, to make sure that Iraq made good on that commitment. We had every good reason to insist that Iraq disarm. Saddam had built up a terrible arsenal, and he had used it not once, but many times, in a decade-long war with Iran, he used chemical weapons, against combatants, against civilians, against a foreign adversary, and even against his own people.

And during the Gulf War, Saddam launched Scuds against Saudi Arabia, Israel and Bahrain.

Now, instead of playing by the very rules he agreed to at the end of the Gulf War, Saddam has spent the better part of the past decade trying to cheat on this solemn commitment. Consider just some of the facts:

Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports.

For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM.

In 1995, Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law, and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more.

Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities and weapon stocks. Previously, it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth. Now listen to this, what did it admit?

It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs.

And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production.

As if we needed further confirmation, you all know what happened to his son-in-law when he made the untimely decision to go back to Iraq.

Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door. And our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it.

Despite Iraq's deceptions, UNSCOM has nevertheless done a remarkable job. Its inspectors the eyes and ears of the civilized world have uncovered and destroyed more weapons of mass destruction capacity than was destroyed during the Gulf War.

This includes nearly 40,000 chemical weapons, more than 100,000 gallons of chemical weapons agents, 48 operational missiles, 30 warheads specifically fitted for chemical and biological weapons, and a massive biological weapons facility at Al Hakam equipped to produce anthrax and other deadly agents.

Over the past few months, as they have come closer and closer to rooting out Iraq's remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions.

By imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still not been inspected off limits, including, I might add, one palace in Baghdad more than 2,600 acres large by comparison, when you hear all this business about presidential sites reflect our sovereignty, why do you want to come into a residence, the White House complex is 18 acres. So you'll have some feel for this.

One of these presidential sites is about the size of Washington, D.C. That's about how many acres did you tell me it was? 40,000 acres. We're not talking about a few rooms here with delicate personal matters involved.

It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them.

The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons.

Now, against that background, let us remember the past here. It is against that background that we have repeatedly and unambiguously made clear our preference for a diplomatic solution.

The inspection system works. The inspection system has worked in the face of lies, stonewalling, obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. The people who have done that work deserve the thanks of civilized people throughout the world.

It has worked. That is all we want. And if we can find a diplomatic way to do what has to be done, to do what he promised to do at the end of the Gulf War, to do what should have been done within 15 days within 15 days of the agreement at the end of the Gulf War, if we can find a diplomatic way to do that, that is by far our preference.

But to be a genuine solution, and not simply one that glosses over the remaining problem, a diplomatic solution must include or meet a clear, immutable, reasonable, simple standard.

Iraq must agree and soon, to free, full, unfettered access to these sites anywhere in the country. There can be no dilution or diminishment of the integrity of the inspection system that UNSCOM has put in place.

Now those terms are nothing more or less than the essence of what he agreed to at the end of the Gulf War. The Security Council, many times since, has reiterated this standard. If he accepts them, force will not be necessary. If he refuses or continues to evade his obligations through more tactics of delay and deception, he and he alone will be to blame for the consequences.

I ask all of you to remember the record here what he promised to do within 15 days of the end of the Gulf War, what he repeatedly refused to do, what we found out in 1995, what the inspectors have done against all odds. We have no business agreeing to any resolution of this that does not include free, unfettered access to the remaining sites by people who have integrity and proven confidence in the inspection business. That should be our standard. That's what UNSCOM has done, and that's why I have been fighting for it so hard. And that's why the United States should insist upon it.

Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply, and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made?

Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction.

And some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal. And I think every one of you who's really worked on this for any length of time believes that, too.

Now we have spent several weeks building up our forces in the Gulf, and building a coalition of like-minded nations. Our force posture would not be possible without the support of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, the GCC states and Turkey. Other friends and allies have agreed to provide forces, bases or logistical support, including the United Kingdom, Germany, Spain and Portugal, Denmark and the Netherlands, Hungary and Poland and the Czech Republic, Argentina, Iceland, Australia and New Zealand and our friends and neighbors in Canada.

That list is growing, not because anyone wants military action, but because there are people in this world who believe the United Nations resolutions should mean something, because they understand what UNSCOM has achieved, because they remember the past, and because they can imagine what the future will be depending on what we do now.

If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. We want to seriously reduce his capacity to threaten his neighbors.

I am quite confident, from the briefing I have just received from our military leaders, that we can achieve the objective and secure our vital strategic interests.

Let me be clear: A military operation cannot destroy all the weapons of mass destruction capacity. But it can and will leave him significantly worse off than he is now in terms of the ability to threaten the world with these weapons or to attack his neighbors.

And he will know that the international community continues to have a will to act if and when he threatens again. Following any strike, we will carefully monitor Iraq's activities with all the means at our disposal. If he seeks to rebuild his weapons of mass destruction, we will be prepared to strike him again.

The economic sanctions will remain in place until Saddam complies fully with all U.N. resolutions.

Consider this already these sanctions have denied him $110 billion. Imagine how much stronger his armed forces would be today, how many more weapons of mass destruction operations he would have hidden around the country if he had been able to spend even a small fraction of that amount for a military rebuilding.

We will continue to enforce a no-fly zone from the southern suburbs of Baghdad to the Kuwait border and in northern Iraq, making it more difficult for Iraq to walk over Kuwait again or threaten the Kurds in the north.

Now, let me say to all of you here as all of you know the weightiest decision any president ever has to make is to send our troops into harm's way. And force can never be the first answer. But sometimes, it's the only answer.

You are the best prepared, best equipped, best trained fighting force in the world. And should it prove necessary for me to exercise the option of force, your commanders will do everything they can to protect the safety of all the men and women under their command.

No military action, however, is risk-free. I know that the people we may call upon in uniform are ready. The American people have to be ready as well.

Dealing with Saddam Hussein requires constant vigilance. We have seen that constant vigilance pays off. But it requires constant vigilance. Since the Gulf War, we have pushed back every time Saddam has posed a threat.

When Baghdad plotted to assassinate former President Bush, we struck hard at Iraq's intelligence headquarters.

When Saddam threatened another invasion by amassing his troops in Kuwait along the Kuwaiti border in 1994, we immediately deployed our troops, our ships, our planes, and Saddam backed down.

When Saddam forcefully occupied Irbil in northern Iraq, we broadened our control over Iraq's skies by extending the no-fly zone.

But there is no better example, again I say, than the U.N. weapons inspection system itself. Yes, he has tried to thwart it in every conceivable way, but the discipline, determination, year-in-year-out effort of these weapons inspectors is doing the job. And we seek to finish the job. Let there be no doubt, we are prepared to act.

But Saddam Hussein could end this crisis tomorrow simply by letting the weapons inspectors complete their mission. He made a solemn commitment to the international community to do that and to give up his weapons of mass destruction a long time ago now. One way or the other, we are determined to see that he makes good on his own promise.

Saddam Hussein's Iraq reminds us of what we learned in the 20th century and warns us of what we must know about the 21st. In this century, we learned through harsh experience that the only answer to aggression and illegal behavior is firmness, determination, and when necessary action.

In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program.

But if we act as one, we can safeguard our interests and send a clear message to every would-be tyrant and terrorist that the international community does have the wisdom and the will and the way to protect peace and security in a new era. That is the future I ask you all to imagine. That is the future I ask our allies to imagine.

If we look at the past and imagine that future, we will act as one together. And we still have, God willing, a chance to find a diplomatic resolution to this, and if not, God willing, the chance to do the right thing for our children and grandchildren.

Thank you very much.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Hillary Clinton. ()
Date: March 05, 2015 03:21PM

Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program.

I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion.

I also greatly respect the differing opinions within this body. The debate they engender will aid our search for a wise, effective policy. Therefore, on no account should dissent be discouraged or disparaged. It is central to our freedom and to our progress, for on more than one occasion, history has proven our great dissenters to be right.

Now, I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people, even his own family members, to maintain his iron grip on power. He used chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians, killing over 20 thousand people. Unfortunately, during the 1980's, while he engaged in such horrific activity, he enjoyed the support of the American government, because he had oil and was seen as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran.

In 1991, Saddam Hussein invaded and occupied Kuwait, losing the support of the United States. The first President Bush assembled a global coalition, including many Arab states, and threw Saddam out after forty-three days of bombing and a hundred hours of ground operations. The U.S.-led coalition then withdrew, leaving the Kurds and the Shiites, who had risen against Saddam Hussein at our urging, to Saddam's revenge.

As a condition for ending the conflict, the United Nations imposed a number of requirements on Iraq, among them disarmament of all weapons of mass destruction, stocks used to make such weapons, and laboratories necessary to do the work. Saddam Hussein agreed, and an inspection system was set up to ensure compliance. And though he repeatedly lied, delayed, and obstructed the inspections work, the inspectors found and destroyed far more weapons of mass destruction capability than were destroyed in the Gulf War, including thousands of chemical weapons, large volumes of chemical and biological stocks, a number of missiles and warheads, a major lab equipped to produce anthrax and other bio-weapons, as well as substantial nuclear facilities.

In 1998, Saddam Hussein pressured the United Nations to lift the sanctions by threatening to stop all cooperation with the inspectors. In an attempt to resolve the situation, the UN, unwisely in my view, agreed to put limits on inspections of designated "sovereign sites" including the so-called presidential palaces, which in reality were huge compounds well suited to hold weapons labs, stocks, and records which Saddam Hussein was required by UN resolution to turn over. When Saddam blocked the inspection process, the inspectors left. As a result, President Clinton, with the British and others, ordered an intensive four-day air assault, Operation Desert Fox, on known and suspected weapons of mass destruction sites and other military targets.

In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad.

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

Now this much is undisputed. The open questions are: what should we do about it? How, when, and with whom?

Some people favor attacking Saddam Hussein now, with any allies we can muster, in the belief that one more round of weapons inspections would not produce the required disarmament, and that deposing Saddam would be a positive good for the Iraqi people and would create the possibility of a secular democratic state in the Middle East, one which could perhaps move the entire region toward democratic reform.

This view has appeal to some, because it would assure disarmament; because it would right old wrongs after our abandonment of the Shiites and Kurds in 1991, and our support for Saddam Hussein in the 1980's when he was using chemical weapons and terrorizing his people; and because it would give the Iraqi people a chance to build a future in freedom.

However, this course is fraught with danger. We and our NATO allies did not depose Mr. Milosevic, who was responsible for more than a quarter of a million people being killed in the 1990s. Instead, by stopping his aggression in Bosnia and Kosovo, and keeping on the tough sanctions, we created the conditions in which his own people threw him out and led to his being in the dock being tried for war crimes as we speak.

If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan. And what if China were to perceive a threat from Taiwan?

So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option.

Others argue that we should work through the United Nations and should only resort to force if and when the United Nations Security Council approves it. This too has great appeal for different reasons. The UN deserves our support. Whenever possible we should work through it and strengthen it, for it enables the world to share the risks and burdens of global security and when it acts, it confers a legitimacy that increases the likelihood of long-term success. The UN can help lead the world into a new era of global cooperation and the United States should support that goal.

But there are problems with this approach as well. The United Nations is an organization that is still growing and maturing. It often lacks the cohesion to enforce its own mandates. And when Security Council members use the veto, on occasion, for reasons of narrow-minded interests, it cannot act. In Kosovo, the Russians did not approve NATO military action because of political, ethnic, and religious ties to the Serbs. The United States therefore could not obtain a Security Council resolution in favor of the action necessary to stop the dislocation and ethnic cleansing of more than a million Kosovar Albanians. However, most of the world was with us because there was a genuine emergency with thousands dead and a million driven from their homes. As soon as the American-led conflict was over, Russia joined the peacekeeping effort that is still underway.

In the case of Iraq, recent comments indicate that one or two Security Council members might never approve force against Saddam Hussein until he has actually used chemical, biological, or God forbid, nuclear weapons.

So, Mr. President, the question is how do we do our best to both defuse the real threat that Saddam Hussein poses to his people, to the region, including Israel, to the United States, to the world, and at the same time, work to maximize our international support and strengthen the United Nations?

While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq. I know that the Administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later. But if we get a clear requirement for unfettered inspections, I believe the authority to use force to enforce that mandate is inherent in the original 1991 UN resolution, as President Clinton recognized when he launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998.

If we get the resolution that President Bush seeks, and if Saddam complies, disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. Regime change will, of course, take longer but we must still work for it, nurturing all reasonable forces of opposition.

If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.

If we try and fail to get a resolution that simply, but forcefully, calls for Saddam's compliance with unlimited inspections, those who oppose even that will be in an indefensible position. And, we will still have more support and legitimacy than if we insist now on a resolution that includes authorizing military action and other requirements giving some nations superficially legitimate reasons to oppose any Security Council action. They will say we never wanted a resolution at all and that we only support the United Nations when it does exactly what we want.

I believe international support and legitimacy are crucial. After shots are fired and bombs are dropped, not all consequences are predictable. While the military outcome is not in doubt, should we put troops on the ground, there is still the matter of Saddam Hussein's biological and chemical weapons. Today he has maximum incentive not to use them or give them away. If he did either, the world would demand his immediate removal. Once the battle is joined, however, with the outcome certain, he will have maximum incentive to use weapons of mass destruction and to give what he can't use to terrorists who can torment us with them long after he is gone. We cannot be paralyzed by this possibility, but we would be foolish to ignore it. And according to recent reports, the CIA agrees with this analysis. A world united in sharing the risk at least would make this occurrence less likely and more bearable and would be far more likely to share with us the considerable burden of rebuilding a secure and peaceful post-Saddam Iraq.

President Bush's speech in Cincinnati and the changes in policy that have come forth since the Administration began broaching this issue some weeks ago have made my vote easier. Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go way with delay will oppose any UN resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.

This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction.

And perhaps my decision is influenced by my eight years of experience on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House watching my husband deal with serious challenges to our nation. I want this President, or any future President, to be in the strongest possible position to lead our country in the United Nations or in war. Secondly, I want to insure that Saddam Hussein makes no mistake about our national unity and for our support for the President's efforts to wage America's war against terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. And thirdly, I want the men and women in our Armed Forces to know that if they should be called upon to act against Iraq, our country will stand resolutely behind them.

My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

Over eleven years have passed since the UN called on Saddam Hussein to rid himself of weapons of mass destruction as a condition of returning to the world community. Time and time again he has frustrated and denied these conditions. This matter cannot be left hanging forever with consequences we would all live to regret. War can yet be avoided, but our responsibility to global security and to the integrity of United Nations resolutions protecting it cannot. I urge the President to spare no effort to secure a clear, unambiguous demand by the United Nations for unlimited inspections.

And finally, on another personal note, I come to this decision from the perspective of a Senator from New York who has seen all too closely the consequences of last year's terrible attacks on our nation. In balancing the risks of action versus inaction, I think New Yorkers who have gone through the fires of hell may be more attuned to the risk of not acting. I know that I am.

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Fact #1 ()
Date: March 05, 2015 03:38PM

We have never gone to war with IRAN. Next door to the west,yes but not IRAN.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 04:21PM

Nakoula Basseley Nakoula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, in other words, you were wrong.

So, in other words, you're a worthless retard.

> Who said that he had to be anything more than that?

You did if you expected him to be taken as some sort of up-there, influential leader dude. He was a wonder-struck student nobody.

> They had a plan, built a group to carry out
> their plan, and had tacit approval and support of
> a cleric who turned out followers to help.

They blundered into a takeover that nobody had planned or wanted. Read an actual history book now and again, dimbulb. It goes down the same way over and over and over again.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Susan Rice ()
Date: March 05, 2015 04:43PM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nakoula Basseley Nakoula Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So, in other words, you were wrong.
>
> So, in other words, you're a worthless retard.
>
> > Who said that he had to be anything more than
> that?
>
> You did if you expected him to be taken as some
> sort of up-there, influential leader dude. He
> was a wonder-struck student nobody.
>
> > They had a plan, built a group to carry out
> > their plan, and had tacit approval and support
> of
> > a cleric who turned out followers to help.
>
> They blundered into a takeover that nobody had
> planned or wanted. Read an actual history book
> now and again, dimbulb. It goes down the same way
> over and over and over again.


It was not, as you claimed, an "unplanned event done by rioting students during the Iranian Revolution." As I said, the long detention wasn't the original plan but the takeover itself was planned and coordinated well in advance. You're the one who needs to read up. You can start with Asgharzadeh's, Khoeiniha's, and others involved own accounts detailing exactly how it happened. They're easily found.

You were wrong. Deal with it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 04:54PM

Susan Rice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was not, as you claimed, an "unplanned event
> done by rioting students during the Iranian
> Revolution." As I said, the long detention wasn't
> the original plan but the takeover itself was
> planned and coordinated well in advance. You're
> the one who needs to read up. You can start with
> Asgharzadeh's, Khoeiniha's, and others involved
> own accounts detailing exactly how it happened.
> They're easily found.
>
> You were wrong. Deal with it.

Eat shit, Susan, you disgusting ignorant slut. You cannot do enough clumsy name-drops or distort the meaning of "planned " sufficiently to cover either your lame-ass mistakes or how badly and brutally your pathetic flabby ass has been pounded here. Go back to reading NewsMax, you worthless goober fuckstick.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: March 05, 2015 05:22PM

FYI, Matter of Fact = GerBear.

I think we're done here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Was it the video? ()
Date: March 05, 2015 05:44PM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Eat shit, Susan, you disgusting ignorant slut.
> You cannot do enough clumsy name-drops or distort
> the meaning of "planned " sufficiently to cover
> either your lame-ass mistakes or how badly and
> brutally your pathetic flabby ass has been pounded
> here. Go back to reading NewsMax, you worthless
> goober fuckstick.


In Asgharzadeh's own words:

"The original decision makers were a group of three individuals who comprised the Central Council of Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat in October 1979. There were five of us. When we talked about occupying the Embassy, however, Mr. Ahmadinejad [yes, that one] and Mr. Seyed Nejad became upset and left, so there were the three of us. They didn't accept our decision. Their thinking was that Marxism was the most important issue in the country and that we didn't have anything against the U.S.; that, rather, we must go after the USSR. They rejected the plan in protest. Myself and Mr. Mirdamadi [a reformist who was imprisoned after the 2009 election], and Mr. Bitaraf represented the three universities. We invited four more individuals from every university as well, and we became a 15-person Council. The 15 individuals assumed responsibility for operational planning and the same 15 people became responsible for inviting others to come to occupy the Embassy on the night of November 4, 1979."

"The main students were picked by a 15-member council from several good universities in Tehran. They were involved from the beginning and assumed direct responsibilities and the work was divided. Later, when the situation lasted longer than 48 hours and its duration extended, new tasks were defined in the coming months and some individuals helped indirectly..."

"We were planning on using 400 students from Tehran University, the Tehran Polytechnic, and Sharif Industrial University. We said let's take 100 students from each university in order to carry out this operation, but we didn't get more than 200 to 300 students. We had planned this for 48 hours only. After 40 hours, when the story changed and we decided to stay, we divided the watch and service tasks and determined several work shifts."

Khoeiniha was made aware in advance and told them to go ahead. There are interviews with him telling his side of the same story.

By any defintion of the word, the takeover was planned. It was not some spontaneous event that "just happened" in the course of a protest as you claimed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 05:55PM

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FYI, Matter of Fact = GerBear.

Wrong as always. Such a low-grade asshole.

> I think we're done here.

You were fucking done before any of this got started. True for the rest of these bewildered goober dumbfucks as well.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 06:05PM

Was it the video? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Asgharzadeh's own words:

Who was Asgharzadeh again? Oh, that's right...an unknown, no-role engineering student caught up in and carried away by revolutionary zeal. He was a NOBODY. Nobody knew him or cared what the fuck he was doing. This is all like Boris and Natasha proclaiming, "First, we kill Moose and Squirrel!"

You're just a worthless dumbo assfuck, Susan. The sooner you can come to grips with that, the easier things will be for you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: wrongg ()
Date: March 05, 2015 06:17PM

Matter of fact you should do something to ease your tension. Is there a nice woman there at the Lamb center you could get coffee with up at the 7-11?

I don't mean to call you crazy, but you are crazy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: March 05, 2015 06:24PM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FYI, Matter of Fact = GerBear.
>
> Wrong as always. Such a low-grade asshole.
>
> > I think we're done here.
>
> You were fucking done before any of this got
> started. True for the rest of these bewildered
> goober dumbfucks as well.

Here's the deal though MoF..........

Whether you're GerBear or not, you are exactly the same kind of pompous asswipe that he is.

I still win and you're still butthurt.
Attachments:
4f78c30f-5916-4d66-9ec7-7466207b94b5.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Matter of fact ()
Date: March 05, 2015 06:36PM

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whether you're GerBear or not, you are exactly the
> same kind of pompous asswipe that he is. I still win
> and you're still butthurt.

You win a shit-pie in the face, you pathetic load of ignorant under-aged lard.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Bullwinkle ()
Date: March 05, 2015 06:39PM

Matter of fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was it the video? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Asgharzadeh's own words:
>
> Who was Asgharzadeh again? Oh, that's right...an
> unknown, no-role engineering student caught up in
> and carried away by revolutionary zeal. He was a
> NOBODY. Nobody knew him or cared what the fuck he
> was doing. This is all like Boris and Natasha
> proclaiming, "First, we kill Moose and Squirrel!"
>
>
> You're just a worthless dumbo assfuck, Susan. The
> sooner you can come to grips with that, the easier
> things will be for you.


He's the person who came up with the idea, PLANNED the takeover, organized a group of several hundred students to carry out, and successfully executed the takeover of the embassy. It was a PLANNED event. They went there that morning with the intent and a PLAN to take over the embassy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Does Anyone Remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis?
Posted by: Run away from home ()
Date: March 05, 2015 06:40PM

your parents don't like you!

Hahahahaha!

Options: ReplyQuote


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