To quote President DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER:

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

Eisenhower truly understood the unquenchable thirst that the military industrial complex has...he tried to warn us...we didnt listen.

I wonder if todays republican party would even consider nominating a man like him?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2009 11:52AM by Vince(1).

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I wonder if todays republikan party would even
> consider nominating a man like him?

Since there is no 'republikan' party, probably not.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I jam blored today. I HATE REPUBLIKANS!!L


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To quote President DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER:
>
> "Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
> every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense,
> a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
> those who are cold and are not clothed."
>
> Eisenhower truly understood the unquenchable
> thirst that the military industrial complex
> has...he tried to warn us...we didnt listen.
>
> I wonder if todays republikan party would even
> consider nominating a man like him?


Notice how Eisenhower said that on his way out the door. Maybe he should have actually done something about it while he was President.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I jam blored today. I HATE REPUBLIKANS!!L
>
>


You have a low tolerance for a variance of opinions...does your mommy always agree with you? Does she always say what a good boy you are? Does she still powder your diaper?

In the spirit of congenial discussion..I changed my spelling of the Grand Old Party..the party of Lincoln...Nelson Rockefeller....Eisenhower..the party of historic moderation and tolerance...May the GOP Rise Again!

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have a low tolerance for a variance of
> opinions.

now you are just projecting. my point was that you cant stand not having something unpopular to argue about, so you bring up a non-issue issue because peace is your enemy.



honestly, i do think you could greatly benefit from seeing a psychologist so you can resolve some of your internal issues.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2009 12:41PM by Gravis.

Is that your point! Well...I am encouraged...for once you articulated directly and precisely what it is you are thinking. Well tell me Mr Genoius is the entire Off Topic subject of conversation supposed to be about you? You do seem to bask in the attention...positively and negatively...that you personally generate. I think that a more worthy subject of a psycologist's attention then trying..allbeit unsucessfully...to discuss a topic of imporatnce for our nation. For your information...the purpose of discussion isnt so eeryone just sits around with their fingers up their ass agreeing on everything..or anything! The purpose is to draw out variant points of view...and to possibly...just possibly learn something. But that isnt why you spend all you rtime on here...Is it Gravis? No...You young man need...no...demand all the attention.

Now go back to suckling on your Momma's teat until you have had enough of her attention and can act like an adult!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2009 02:15PM by Vince(1).

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that your point! Well...I am encouraged...for
> once you articulated directly and precisely what
> it is you are thinking. Well tell me Mr Genoius
> is the entire Off Topic subject of conversation
> supposed to be about you? You do seem to bask in
> the attention...positively and negatively...that
> you personally generate. I think that a more
> worthy subject of a psycologist's attention then
> trying..allbeit unsucessfully...to discuss a topic
> of imporatnce for our nation. For your
> information...the purpose of discussion isnt so
> eeryone just sits around with their fingers up
> their ass agreeing on everything..or anything!
> The purpose is to draw out variant points of
> view...and to possibly...just possibly learn
> something. But that isnt why you spend all you
> rtime on here...Is it Gravis? You young man
> need...no demand all the attention.
>
> Now go back to suckling on your Momma's teat until
> you have had enough of her attention and can act
> like an adult!


I see the "rage, accuse and condemn." When do we get to the "pleading" and "going away?"

Im not going any where..Mr Washintoneee..maybe it's time for you to leave.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that your point! Well...I am encouraged...for
> once you articulated directly and precisely what
> it is you are thinking. Well tell me Mr Genoius
> is the entire Off Topic subject of conversation
> supposed to be about you? You do seem to bask in
> the attention...positively and negatively...that
> you personally generate. I think that a more
> worthy subject of a psycologist's attention then
> trying..allbeit unsucessfully...to discuss a topic
> of imporatnce for our nation. For your
> information...the purpose of discussion isnt so
> eeryone just sits around with their fingers up
> their ass agreeing on everything..or anything!
> The purpose is to draw out variant points of
> view...and to possibly...just possibly learn
> something. But that isnt why you spend all you
> rtime on here...Is it Gravis? You young man
> need...no demand all the attention.

i didnt say the attention should be about me or that it shouldnt be debates. once again, you are projecting because in fact you want the attention which you try to get by bringing up non-issue issues and taking an unpopular point of view on the issue. there are many other topics of debate that are not so radical and relevant to current events but you dont seem to enjoy those as much as trying to cause controversy centered around your own radical point of view. you antagonize people so that you will get a reaction out of them focusing on yourself. it's people like you that create radical factions trying to take on the world regardless of the cost of human life. you are an attention whore with some serious psychological issues.

as for the issue, i dont think we are suffering from "The Military Industrial Complex" as there have been many prosperous years without the need for war. ironically, you cant do without a war of your own.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

ohhh...so the size of the budget going into the defense department isnt an issue? Interesting! I guess since you think soldiers lives are trivial and expendable that is a consistent point of view.

The fact is the US has been at war ever since the end of WW II..either directly or or through surrogates.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ohhh...so the size of the budget going into the
> defense department isnt an issue?

there are a lot of great technologies that have come out of DoD projects. it drives innovation in many areas.


> The fact is the US has been at war ever since the
> end of WW II..either directly or or through
> surrogates.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ohhh...so the size of the budget going into the
> > defense department isnt an issue?
>
> there are a lot of great technologies that have
> come out of DoD projects. it drives innovation in
> many areas.
>
>
> > The fact is the US has been at war ever since
> the
> > end of WW II..either directly or or through
> > surrogates.
>
>


Not true...if you set out to build a bomb...99% of the time..you get a bomb..that's all!

Not true...if you set out to build a bomb...99% of the time..you get a bomb..that's all!

And you can back this alleged fact up? Stupid and illiterate, what a combination. You have to be a spic. Only a bean-eating, grass cutting spic could be this fucking stupid. Your inability to spell, among your other obvious deficiencies with the English language would seem to prove it.

Oh Steve...a racist eletist..waht an interesting combination..next you'll tell us you're gay. A racist..elitist..gay person! Why didnt you ask Gravis to back up his "fact" also?

i dont generally agree with Vince, but to not see what the military industrial complex has become is to be ignorant.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why didnt you ask Gravis to back up his "fact" also?

duct tape: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Not true...if you set out to build a bomb...99% of
> the time..you get a bomb..that's all!


Vince, that little thing you're using called the internet? You can thank the DoD for that.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince, that little thing you're using called the
> internet? You can thank the DoD for that.

i totally spaced that one.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Yea Gravis...the DOD has come up with a lot of great technologies, like a GAY BOMB. How do we know that the DOD never used it, as in testing? We seem to have a lot more gays running around in the world.

Always challenge the status-quo.

spunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yea Gravis...the DOD has come up with a lot of
> great technologies, like a GAY BOMB. How do we
> know that the DOD never used it, as in testing?
> We seem to have a lot more gays running around in
> the world.

oi, where to start.

1. the "gay bomb" is strictly theoretical
2. the effects of it are temporary
3. men would have come up with a chemical to make them irresistible to women long before any chemical to men irresistible to each other.
4. such a chemical is preposterous

"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Not true...if you set out to build a bomb...99%
> of
> > the time..you get a bomb..that's all!
>
>
> Vince, that little thing you're using called the
> internet? You can thank the DoD for that.


Prove to me that DoD single handedly invented the Internet. Everyone knows Al Gore invented the internet...not the DoD. And oh by the way...your example really doesnt prove the point that there are spin offs from buliding a bomb. Of course if DoD is given money to develop a non-bomb product they can do so. We are talking about spin-offs from the millions of dollars spent on weaponry. Even I can think of one....GPS. But one example does not refute the fact that 99% of the time there are no spin offs. GPS and maybe the internet are just part of the 1%.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Prove to me that DoD single handedly invented the
> Internet. Everyone knows Al Gore invented the
> internet...not the DoD. And oh by the way...your
> example really doesnt prove the point that there
> are spin offs from buliding a bomb. Of course if
> DoD is given money to develop a non-bomb product
> they can do so. We are talking about spin-offs
> from the millions of dollars spent on weaponry.
> Even I can think of one....GPS. But one example
> does not refute the fact that 99% of the time
> there are no spin offs. GPS and maybe the
> internet are just part of the 1%.

Don't have to prove anything to you. Never said that DoD "single-handedly" invented the internet, but if not for ARPA, a DoD-funded entity, back in the 60's-70's, there would be no modern-day internet. Look it up.

Need more examples? --

Computers (look up ENIAC and Colossus)
Radar
Sonar
Microwave technology
Jet aircraft
Space travel (albeit very limited so far)
Oceanography
Seismology
Global navigation


If all that, and more, is only 1%, then the military must have designed a whole shitload of bombs.

You are missing the point and providing non-applicable examples. Any research organization given the funding that DoD is provided could have developoed all those things...more efficeiently and more effectively. Show how by building a bomb...a tank..a bullet...anything of any value was developed as a spin off.

.
Attachments:

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are missing the point and providing
> non-applicable examples. Any research
> organization given the funding that DoD is
> provided could have developoed all those
> things...more efficeiently and more effectively.
> Show how by building a bomb...a tank..a
> bullet...anything of any value was developed as a
> spin off.

actually, those technologies listed were developed specifically for military applications because they had a need for them. later they were used for non-military applications. people rarely invent things they dont need to accomplish a goal.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are missing the point and providing
> non-applicable examples. Any research
> organization given the funding that DoD is
> provided could have developoed all those
> things...more efficeiently and more effectively.
> Show how by building a bomb...a tank..a
> bullet...anything of any value was developed as a
> spin off.

Geez, you're a complete idiot. First you argue a point, but when your argument is proven to be completely invalid, you try to change it. Your 1st response of "Not true" was to Gravis' statement:

"there are a lot of great technologies that have come out of DoD projects.
it drives innovation in many areas."

When given numerous concrete examples showing your ignorance, you go and try to change your argument to something else.

So...you really think the Roswell discoveries in the 50's didn't have a thing to do with DOD's discoveries afterwards?

Roswell was a weather balloon. The rest of the story was invented by people that hear voices.

spunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So...you really think the Roswell discoveries in
> the 50's didn't have a thing to do with DOD's
> discoveries afterwards?

are you serious?! do you honestly think they found an alien aircraft in Roswell?!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2009 08:28PM by Prada Denim.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You are missing the point and providing
> > non-applicable examples. Any research
> > organization given the funding that DoD is
> > provided could have developoed all those
> > things...more efficeiently and more effectively.
>
> > Show how by building a bomb...a tank..a
> > bullet...anything of any value was developed as
> a
> > spin off.
>
> actually, those technologies listed were developed
> specifically for military applications because
> they had a need for them. later they were used
> for non-military applications. people rarely
> invent things they dont need to accomplish a goal.


No doubt...but anyone could have developed them..they were not spin-offs...which was my point from the beginning.

The DoD is also one of the best educators/trainers in the world...that doesnt mean that their training system/process is a result of building a bomb. It is the result of getting the right people to teach the right subjects with highly motivated students.

The DoD also has some of the best musicians in the world...that doent mean they are a spin off from building a bomb.

When you build a bomb..you get a bomb..that's all!

When you pay for a great educational system..you get a great educational system.

When you pay for great musicians you get great musicians.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2009 10:00PM by Vince(1).

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > You are missing the point and providing
> > > non-applicable examples. Any research
> > > organization given the funding that DoD is
> > > provided could have developoed all those
> > > things...more efficeiently and more
> effectively.
> >
> > > Show how by building a bomb...a tank..a
> > > bullet...anything of any value was developed
> as
> > a
> > > spin off.
> >
> > actually, those technologies listed were
> developed
> > specifically for military applications because
> > they had a need for them. later they were used
> > for non-military applications. people rarely
> > invent things they dont need to accomplish a
> goal.
>
>
> No doubt...but anyone could have developed
> them..they were not spin-offs...which was my point
> from the beginning.
>
> The DoD is also one of the best
> educators/trainers in the world...that doesnt mean
> that their training system/process is a result of
> building a bomb. It is the result of getting the
> right people to teach the right subjects with
> highly motivated students.
>
> The DoD also has some of the best musicians in the
> world...that doent mean they are a spin off from
> building a bomb.
>
> When you build a bomb..you get a bomb..that's
> all!
>
> When you pay for a great educational system..you
> get a great educational system.
>
> When you pay for great musicians you get great
> musicians.


the Yankees paid for A-rod, a great athlete and they got a SHITTY performance.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt...but anyone could have developed
> them..they were not spin-offs...which was my point
> from the beginning.

yes, if they had the need, the idea and the resources, they could have. however, people did not have the need so they didnt get the ideas so they didnt invent them. innovation comes from necessity.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No doubt...but anyone could have developed
> > them..they were not spin-offs...which was my
> point
> > from the beginning.
>
> yes, if they had the need, the idea and the
> resources, they could have. however, people did
> not have the need so they didnt get the ideas so
> they didnt invent them. innovation comes from
> necessity.


I dont disagree..all I ever said...All you get from bulding a bomb..is a bomb. There is no intrinsic extra value in building a bomb that couldnt have been developed by anyone else...given the same commitment in resources. Who knows...maybe we'd still have a viable industrial base if we didnt spend as much money on defense...perhaps we could have a first calss medical system if we didnt spend 90% of what the entire world spends on defense. It is a very poor investment in "progress" to depend on "spin-offs" from the DoD to bring new inventions/ideas to the market place.

Vince(1) whined:

> I dont disagree..all I ever said...All you get
> from bulding a bomb..is a bomb. There is no
> intrinsic extra value in building a bomb that
> couldnt have been developed by anyone else...

You are so friggin' wrong. Someone famous once said: "The purpose of the military is to break things and kill people." Everything we do is with those goals in mind. There are non-military uses for things we invent, but that's not necessarily required. While some non-military person might be able to invent the things we use, if they don't have a need or profit motive it is not likely they will try. So if we develop a new metallic alloy for our bombs to allow them to better penetrate Iranian nuke bunkers, and that alloy can also be used to make the butter knife you like to shove up your ass, it doesn't matter to us... we just wanted to build the bomb. No one else wanted to build you a better butter knife. But you'll be thankful for it even if it did come from a military need.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont disagree..all I ever said...All you get
> from bulding a bomb..is a bomb.

actually, no, it's not. you also get the technology required to create that bomb which can have many applications.


> There is no
> intrinsic extra value in building a bomb that
> couldnt have been developed by anyone else...given
> the same commitment in resources.

sure there is, we have it, they dont.


> Who knows...maybe we'd still have a viable industrial
> base if we didnt spend as much money on
> defense...perhaps we could have a first calss
> medical system if we didnt spend 90% of what the
> entire world spends on defense. It is a very poor
> investment in "progress" to depend on "spin-offs"
> from the DoD to bring new inventions/ideas to the
> market place.

coulda-woulda-shoulda. alternatively, we could have been destroyed as a nation or be lacking a lot of great technologies we take for granted. i dont know what would have happened, you dont know know what would happen, nobody knows what would have happened. however, i do know that our current investment has given and is continuing to give us great technologies that many people benefit from.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

When you build a bomb, you get a bomb. That is true.

However, when you're trying to figure out how to build the bomb, you come up with new guidance technology, smaller computer components, new composite materials, etc. That's how military research works; the government gives a bunch of money to a company to find ways to kill people more efficiently. The company, seeking to optimize its profit margin and holding the patent to whatever technology the government ask them to build, seeks commercial application for it as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Fact of the day: MrMephisto has used the word "whilst" in previous postings. This means he is from the UK.

I also spell it defence, colour, and honour.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Fact of the Day: L8 Nite Troll does not know why MrMephisto immigrated to the US.

L8 Nite Troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact of the Day: L8 Nite Troll does not know why
> MrMephisto immigrated to the US.

Have you ever been to England?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Hmmmm...guaranteed pension versus unstable 401k.

Free health care versus HMO.

Free education versus student loans.

Uh oh, I can't let people think I'm Vince.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also spell it defence, colour, and honour.


Bet you sound sexy when you talk too.

Vince(1) Wrote:

> I dont disagree..all I ever said...All you get
> from bulding a bomb..is a bomb. There is no
> intrinsic extra value in building a bomb that
> couldnt have been developed by anyone else...given
> the same commitment in resources. Who
> knows...maybe we'd still have a viable industrial
> base if we didnt spend as much money on
> defense...perhaps we could have a first calss
> medical system if we didnt spend 90% of what the
> entire world spends on defense. It is a very poor
> investment in "progress" to depend on "spin-offs"
> from the DoD to bring new inventions/ideas to the
> market place.


Vince,
You are an ignorant slut...

Everytime you comment, you show your ignorance.

Do you have a clue what technology goes into a smartbomb? and what dual-use is?

Keep commenting Vincent...You are a first class idiot lefty.

Some programs that DARPA is working on right now:

* a substance that would be able to permeate any wound, selectively bind damaged tissue and staunch all blood loss.

* an unmanned aerial vehicle that can stay airborne for 5 straight years while carrying a 1,000 pound load, without the need for refueling

* a super-sensitive gravity meter that can be used to detect underground tunnels

All of this stuff, and the technologies that spin-out of the R&D, will have widespread use in the civilian sector.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2009 11:34AM by TheMeeper.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> * an unmanned aerial vehicle that can stay
> airborne for 5 straight years while carrying a
> 1,000 pound load, without the need for refueling
>


While technically accurate, you should not refer to Alias this way in public.

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > * an unmanned aerial vehicle that can stay
> > airborne for 5 straight years while carrying a
> > 1,000 pound load, without the need for refueling
>
> >
>
>
> While technically accurate, you should not refer
> to Alias this way in public.

I lol'd.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.