wouldn't that make Henry Fonda a Mexican also? you get to the ending, and 2 hours and 40 minutes in, when Henry Fonda shoves the harmonica in young Charles Bronson's mouth as his brother is standing on his shoulders with a noose around his neck....and all of the sudden you realize that Henry Fonda and Charles Bronson were supposed to be Mexicans the whole time? I thought Henry Fonda just had a tan...I didn't realize first time I saw it they had painted him brown.


why couldn't they just use real mexicans?
.
Attachments:

ennio morricone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wouldn't that make Henry Fonda a Mexican also? you
> get to the ending, and 2 hours and 40 minutes in,
> when Henry Fonda shoves the harmonica in young
> Charles Bronson's mouth as his brother is standing
> on his shoulders with a noose around his
> neck....and all of the sudden you realize that
> Henry Fonda and Charles Bronson were supposed to
> be Mexicans the whole time? I thought Henry Fonda
> just had a tan...I didn't realize first time I saw
> it they had painted him brown.
>
>
> why couldn't they just use real mexicans?
> .
Attachments:

good thread about mexican

deserve a bump

back in those days you just had to paint a white guy brown boom you got a mexican

this is it.

this is it Wrote:
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> this is it.


This is what?

ennio morricone Wrote:
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> why couldn't they just use real mexicans?


Lol wut

Bronson was Jewish, I think he had some Mongolian or far eastern blood.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

chuck heston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ennio morricone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > why couldn't they just use real mexicans?
>
>
> Lol wut
>
> src="http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.
> php?40,file=165752,filename=touchofevil164.jpeg">


OH MY GOD, i totally forgot about Touch of Evil. that is the single most offensive use of a white man painted brown to look mexican in hollywood history.

The movie wouldn't have been made if Charlton Heston hadn't starred in it.

So, it was made, with him in that ridiculous make up. But there would have been no movie without Heston.

Story here: http://www.wellesnet.com/?p=220

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bronson was Jewish, I think he had some Mongolian
> or far eastern blood.


i've seen that, but this site says no, and they seem to be pretty meticulous about accuracy:

http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=461

but, so, henry fonda and by extension charles bronson--in the movie--were definitely supposed to be mexican right? you don't catch on till the end where the other son fonda killed is definitely a real mexican guy. so that makes them all 'supposed to be' mexicans.

Peter Lorre played an chinaman a lot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans_of_European_descent

Here we go again, another stupid American gringo who does not know shit and has never traveled out of the states before.

FUCK YOU

Here we go again................ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons
> /d/d8/Mexican_Girls.jpg">
>
>

src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons
> /thumb/5/5f/Vicente_Fox_podium.jpg/640px-Vicente_F
> ox_podium.jpg">
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans_of_European_
> descent
>
>

Here we go again, another stupid American
> gringo who does not know shit and has never
> traveled out of the states before.
>
> FUCK YOU

what does that have to do with anything? charles bronson and henry fonda and charlton Heston for that matter were all not mexicans but they were painted brown for hollywood. that's the story here. and until you see the end of Once Upon a Time in the west, you don't even realize bronson and fonda were SUPPOSED to be mexican characters the who time!

We don't need no badges.

Here we go again................ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons
> /d/d8/Mexican_Girls.jpg">
>
>

src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons
> /thumb/5/5f/Vicente_Fox_podium.jpg/640px-Vicente_F
> ox_podium.jpg">
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans_of_European_
> descent
>
>

Here we go again, another stupid American
> gringo who does not know shit and has never
> traveled out of the states before.
>
> FUCK YOU

Here we go, another gringo that never swam the Rio grande

You think all Mexicans look like this?

Charlie Chan was not Chinese, also Amos and Andy on the radio were white, Al Jolson was not a black man in the "Minstrel Singer" David Carridine was not Chinese in "Kung Fu". Most of the blacks in "Birth of a Nation" were white.

"you don't catch on till the end where the other son fonda killed is definitely a real mexican guy."

uhh...

Claudio Mancini ... Harmonica's Brother (uncredited)
Dino Mele ... Harmonica as a Boy (uncredited)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064116/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Claudio Mancini.

Yeah, definitely "a real Mexican guy".

The moral of this story?

Once upon a time, there was a foolish man who built his house on sand.

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, and it fell.

And great was the fall of it.

But not as great as the fall of this thread, mi amigo.

Fallen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "you don't catch on till the end where the other
> son fonda killed is definitely a real mexican
> guy."
>
> uhh...
>
> Claudio Mancini ... Harmonica's Brother
> (uncredited)
> Dino Mele ... Harmonica as a Boy (uncredited)
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064116/fullcredits?re
> f_=tt_cl_sm#cast
>
> Claudio Mancini.
>
> Yeah, definitely "a real Mexican guy".
>
> The moral of this story?
>
> Once upon a time, there was a foolish man who
> built his house on sand.
>
> And the rain descended, and the floods came, and
> the winds blew and beat upon that house, and it
> fell.
>
> And great was the fall of it.
>
> But not as great as the fall of this thread, mi
> amigo.


whatever.

they were brown for real, unlike charles bronson and henry fonda who were obviously PAINTED brown. so who would blame anyone for thinking they were real mexicans. charles bronson was less brown than fonda tho, who was a definite real life white guy. so you're wondering the whole movie until the end why fonda is so tan. then you realize he's a pretend mexican the whole time.

you don't find it offensive when holywood uses non-mexican non-asian non-indian etc. actors to play mexican asian indian etc. parts?????? omg omg omg

There are two issues here.

First, whether non-Mexicans were used to play Mexican characters in OUATITW.

You concluded that non-Mexicans did play Mexican characters, based on this argument:

"...were definitely supposed to be mexican right? you don't catch on till the end where the other son fonda killed is definitely a real mexican guy."

Except he wasn't.

but he was "BROWN FOR REAL"

He was "brown for real," but he wasn't Mexican.

This was a movie by an Italian director who used a dark-skinned Italian in a bit part.

The father of that boy, and Harmonica, had a gringo name. His mother was a blonde from New Orleans. Some Mexicans are blonde, but the movie does not cue us to "read" the mother as Mexican.

As for Henry Fonda, he just had crappy makeup meant to suggest "sunburnt". Meant, in particular, to make his cold blue eyes seem even colder and bluer by contrast with his dark skin (see wikipedia article on OUATITW). The film doesn't give us any cues to suggest that Fonda is a Mexican.

You built a massive edifice of dubious inference and damning conclusions on top of a false premise ("the other son fonda killed is definitely a real mexican guy").

You have accrued $2 million FU dollars in building code fines, and are assigned 18 hours in remedial logic classes with I Am Spunky.

So much for the first issue.

The second issue is Hollywood's treatment of ethnic types, and its frequent tendency to have anglos play "people of color" - heston in touch of evil, lorre as mr. moto, etc.

As for this, I personally don't find it offensive, but I can see why some people do.

I do sometimes find it *off-putting* when the disparity between the performer and the ethnicity of the character are at sufficient variance as to be distracting. Thus, I have a hard time with parts of Touch of Evil, a couple of scenes where Heston's makeup looks particularly awkward. Also, Alec Guinness's performance as Prince Faisal in Lawrence of Arabia never worked for me, in part because he simply does not look anything like an Arab, but mainly because he just doesn't seem to do a very good job with the role. It doesn't come off.

deep like the rivers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are two issues here.
>
> First, whether non-Mexicans were used to play
> Mexican characters in OUATITW.
>
> You concluded that non-Mexicans did play Mexican
> characters, based on this argument:
>
> "...were definitely supposed to be mexican right?
> you don't catch on till the end where the
> other son fonda killed is definitely a real
> mexican guy."
>
> Except he wasn't.
>
> but he was "BROWN FOR REAL"
>
> He was "brown for real," but he wasn't Mexican.
>
> This was a movie by an Italian director who used a
> dark-skinned Italian in a bit part.
>
> The father of that boy, and Harmonica, had a
> gringo name. His mother was a blonde from New
> Orleans. Some Mexicans are blonde, but the movie
> does not cue us to "read" the mother as Mexican.
>
> As for Henry Fonda, he just had crappy makeup
> meant to suggest "sunburnt". Meant, in
> particular, to make his cold blue eyes seem even
> colder and bluer by contrast with his dark skin
> (see wikipedia article on OUATITW). The film
> doesn't give us any cues to suggest that Fonda is
> a Mexican.
>
> You built a massive edifice of dubious inference
> and damning conclusions on top of a false premise
> ("the other son fonda killed is definitely a real
> mexican guy").
>
> You have accrued $2 million FU dollars in building
> code fines, and are assigned 18 hours in remedial
> logic classes with I Am Spunky.
>
> So much for the first issue.
>
> The second issue is Hollywood's treatment of
> ethnic types, and its frequent tendency to have
> anglos play "people of color" - heston in touch of
> evil, lorre as mr. moto, etc.
>
> As for this, I personally don't find it offensive,
> but I can see why some people do.
>
> I do sometimes find it *off-putting* when the
> disparity between the performer and the ethnicity
> of the character are at sufficient variance as to
> be distracting. Thus, I have a hard time with
> parts of Touch of Evil, a couple of scenes where
> Heston's makeup looks particularly awkward. Also,
> Alec Guinness's performance as Prince Faisal in
> Lawrence of Arabia never worked for me, in part
> because he simply does not look anything like an
> Arab, but mainly because he just doesn't seem to
> do a very good job with the role. It doesn't come
> off.


the mother from new orleans? you mean the widow of the irish guy who also by the way was obviously a dark-skinned italian guy playing an irish guy (see, it goes both ways)? she wasn't anyone's mother.

both the boys in the flashback scene were brown, in the context they're presented in, most people would assume the real actors were actual mexican boys, on account of them looking mexican as they were supposed to be mexicans in the movie and the mexican backdrop and so forth, that is not a crazy assumption to make. I am well aware Sergio Leone was an italian. you would have to go dig up some movie trivia from the internet to confirm the real actors in that scene were actually dark-skinned italians. this isn't movie trivia time. it's "isn't it weird you don't even realize the two lead characters were supposed to be mexican the whole movie" time.

there's nothing wrong with any of that logic once you get to the hanging scene at the end, where the actors and the backdrop are very clearly meant to be mexican. two boys who in real life could easily pass for mexican, plus their father (henry fonda, a real life white guy) who is their father in the movie, average person would assume then that henry fonda's character is also supposed to be mexican. movie-goers aren't expected to make assumptions based on the fact there are blond mexicans, because movie-goers and people in general are not trained to recognize that fact, and they don't, and they never will. they will only see brown, mexican, end of story. your thing about the nuances of mexican skin and hair color are lost and meaningless to any average north american audience.

I also find it offensive in old hollywood when an american actor would play a very british part, like joseph cotten's scotland yard inspector in Gaslight. if i remember right, he didn't even attempt a cockney accent. that's also offensive. just get a real english guy to do it, hollywood. it's not even about race. it's about there are plenty of actors who are the real thing the character is, so use them, not joseph cotten all the time!