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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Gunlover-tard
()
Date: September 30, 2014 08:28AM
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate.
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
Attachments:
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
Attachments:
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
idiotseeker
()
Date: September 30, 2014 11:07AM
How do you explain the gun violence and gun murder rates of Chicago (500+ homicides in 2013), Newark NJ, Trenton NJ, Detroit MI, Oakland Ca, New Haven CT? All are cities with very restrictive gun laws and their respective states have very restrictive gun laws.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Gunlover-tard
()
Date: September 30, 2014 11:10AM
idiotseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you explain the gun violence and gun murder
> rates of Chicago (500+ homicides in 2013), Newark
> NJ, Trenton NJ, Detroit MI, Oakland Ca, New Haven
> CT? All are cities with very restrictive gun laws
> and their respective states have very restrictive
> gun laws.
"The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates."
Not laws, guns.
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you explain the gun violence and gun murder
> rates of Chicago (500+ homicides in 2013), Newark
> NJ, Trenton NJ, Detroit MI, Oakland Ca, New Haven
> CT? All are cities with very restrictive gun laws
> and their respective states have very restrictive
> gun laws.
"The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates."
Not laws, guns.
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Logic 101
()
Date: September 30, 2014 11:16AM
idiotseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you explain the gun violence and gun murder
> rates of Chicago (500+ homicides in 2013), Newark
> NJ, Trenton NJ, Detroit MI, Oakland Ca, New Haven
> CT? All are cities with very restrictive gun laws
> and their respective states have very restrictive
> gun laws.
That number would be 10,000+ homicides if the restrictions weren't in place.
That's like saying there should be no speed limits because people still get into accidents.
Or, people having to pay for stuff hasn't stopped stealing therefore everything should be free.
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you explain the gun violence and gun murder
> rates of Chicago (500+ homicides in 2013), Newark
> NJ, Trenton NJ, Detroit MI, Oakland Ca, New Haven
> CT? All are cities with very restrictive gun laws
> and their respective states have very restrictive
> gun laws.
That number would be 10,000+ homicides if the restrictions weren't in place.
That's like saying there should be no speed limits because people still get into accidents.
Or, people having to pay for stuff hasn't stopped stealing therefore everything should be free.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
idiotseeker
()
Date: September 30, 2014 11:33AM
Several reports on gun ownership around the world clearly refute the assertion that the abundance of guns in the United States leads to a high rate of firearm homicides.
Americans are the biggest gun owners by far, with an estimated 270 million civilian firearms, in addition to those used by law enforcement and the military. That’s according to the Small Arms Survey of 178 nations conducted by the Switzerland-based Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies.
In sheer numbers of civilian firearms, the No. 2 nation, surprisingly, is India with 46 million, followed by China (40 million), Germany (25 million), Pakistan (18 million), and Mexico (15 million).
The United States also leads in gun ownership rate, with about 88 firearms per 100 people, according to the most recent Small Arms Survey compiled in 2007.
That is far ahead of No. 2 Yemen, which has 55 firearms per 100 people. Switzerland is third with 46 per 100 people, followed by Finland (45), Serbia (38), Cyprus (36), Saudi Arabia (35), and Iraq (34).
But when it comes to the firearm homicide rate, the United States doesn’t even make the top 25.
According to figures collected by the United Nations’ Office on Drugs and Crime through its annual crime survey, 9,146 Americans were victims of a firearm homicide in the most recent year. That translates to a rate of 2.97 firearm homicides per 100,000 population, only the 27th highest rate in the world.
The highest rate by far can be found in Honduras, 68 homicides per 100,000, followed by El Salvador (40), Jamaica (39), Venezuela (38.9), Guatemala (34), and Colombia (27).
For America’s neighbors, the rate in Mexico is 9.9 per 100,000, and in Canada, 0.5 per 100,000.
It is interesting to note that not only does the United States have a relatively low homicide rate compared to its gun ownership rate, but Switzerland, which ranks third in the civilian gun ownership rate, has only the 46th highest homicide rate, and Finland, with the fourth highest ownership rate, is 63rd on the list.
“The most obnoxious liberal talking points on guns involve the idea that guns, in and of themselves, cause gun violence,” writes CNS News commentator Stephen Gutowski. “In other words, more guns must mean more gun violence.”
But in light of the ownership and homicide figures, he observes: “More guns do not, in fact, mean more gun violence. Guns can be, and commonly are, used in a responsible manner, especially here in the United States.”
interesting...
Americans are the biggest gun owners by far, with an estimated 270 million civilian firearms, in addition to those used by law enforcement and the military. That’s according to the Small Arms Survey of 178 nations conducted by the Switzerland-based Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies.
In sheer numbers of civilian firearms, the No. 2 nation, surprisingly, is India with 46 million, followed by China (40 million), Germany (25 million), Pakistan (18 million), and Mexico (15 million).
The United States also leads in gun ownership rate, with about 88 firearms per 100 people, according to the most recent Small Arms Survey compiled in 2007.
That is far ahead of No. 2 Yemen, which has 55 firearms per 100 people. Switzerland is third with 46 per 100 people, followed by Finland (45), Serbia (38), Cyprus (36), Saudi Arabia (35), and Iraq (34).
But when it comes to the firearm homicide rate, the United States doesn’t even make the top 25.
According to figures collected by the United Nations’ Office on Drugs and Crime through its annual crime survey, 9,146 Americans were victims of a firearm homicide in the most recent year. That translates to a rate of 2.97 firearm homicides per 100,000 population, only the 27th highest rate in the world.
The highest rate by far can be found in Honduras, 68 homicides per 100,000, followed by El Salvador (40), Jamaica (39), Venezuela (38.9), Guatemala (34), and Colombia (27).
For America’s neighbors, the rate in Mexico is 9.9 per 100,000, and in Canada, 0.5 per 100,000.
It is interesting to note that not only does the United States have a relatively low homicide rate compared to its gun ownership rate, but Switzerland, which ranks third in the civilian gun ownership rate, has only the 46th highest homicide rate, and Finland, with the fourth highest ownership rate, is 63rd on the list.
“The most obnoxious liberal talking points on guns involve the idea that guns, in and of themselves, cause gun violence,” writes CNS News commentator Stephen Gutowski. “In other words, more guns must mean more gun violence.”
But in light of the ownership and homicide figures, he observes: “More guns do not, in fact, mean more gun violence. Guns can be, and commonly are, used in a responsible manner, especially here in the United States.”
interesting...
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Gunlover-tard
()
Date: September 30, 2014 11:54AM
idiotseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “The most obnoxious liberal talking points on
> guns involve the idea that guns, in and of
> themselves, cause gun violence,” writes CNS News
> commentator Stephen Gutowski. “In other words,
> more guns must mean more gun violence.”
Yes, that's how it works in the good 'ol US of A:
"The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates."
What is it about this fact that you gunlover-tards don't get?
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
-------------------------------------------------------
> “The most obnoxious liberal talking points on
> guns involve the idea that guns, in and of
> themselves, cause gun violence,” writes CNS News
> commentator Stephen Gutowski. “In other words,
> more guns must mean more gun violence.”
Yes, that's how it works in the good 'ol US of A:
"The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates."
What is it about this fact that you gunlover-tards don't get?
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
idiotseeker
()
Date: September 30, 2014 11:56AM
I love how you cite silly idioms such as speed limits. I looked up your "fact" of 114% murder rate, apparently most of those so called "murders" in high gun ownership states are suicides in the 35 and under age group.Suicide isnt homicide, its death none the less but not homicide. But I beg you to answer me this as you seem to be absent of the typical name calling and verbal abuse tactics of many anti gun advocates...why do you begrudge the lawful gun owners a guaranteed right? Nowhere does the constitution guarantee gay rights but we dont begrudge them the ability to make up their own interpretations. I dont want your rights taken away regardless of how you lean politically, religiously or sexually, yet the anti gunners vehemently want my rights prohibited. Why do you hate me and my guns yet the anti gunners show no inclination to curb wholesale slaughter of black youth in the inner city? Using your own analogy, people speed in cars and cause death, so should we punish every car owner with a car governed at 55mph, even in Utah and Texas where 85 mph is legal on certain roadways? Again, I hold no animosity towards you for your views and I appreciate the lack of name calling and rudeness in your responses. I wish you a safe and blessed day, have a wonderful day.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
wtt6c
()
Date: September 30, 2014 11:57AM
Logic 101 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> idiotseeker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How do you explain the gun violence and gun
> murder
> > rates of Chicago (500+ homicides in 2013),
> Newark
> > NJ, Trenton NJ, Detroit MI, Oakland Ca, New
> Haven
> > CT? All are cities with very restrictive gun
> laws
> > and their respective states have very
> restrictive
> > gun laws.
>
> That number would be 10,000+ homicides if the
> restrictions weren't in place.
>
> That's like saying there should be no speed limits
> because people still get into accidents.
>
> Or, people having to pay for stuff hasn't stopped
> stealing therefore everything should be free.
You're full of shit. lol
Criminals, who account for the vast majority of crime-related gun deaths, pay no attention to gun laws as it is. As the other poster correctly notes. Gun deaths actually have declined rather significantly since Chicago had to start issuing permits. Not that the effect is necessarily a direct result since there hasn't been enough time to make that conclusion on any legit basis, but that is the fact.
Beyond that, the vast majority of gun deaths that they're counting, like 2/3eds or more, are suicides. Most of which would happen guns or not.
The final group consists of unintentional deaths which amount to a relatively tiny number and are far below the rates of many other common causes. There, while there is some correlation, it is weak because it is primarily driven by random events rather than some causational effect and the overall numbers are so small that single events can result in 200%!!!-type differences in rates that they then cite.
As typical, Mother Jones is mixing a bunch of different largely unrelated stats to reach their foregone conclusion and obscuring the differences in magnitude by putting things in terms of percentages rather than raw numbers. They also don't adjust for population differences where in any such rate-based comparison lower population states will tend to show larger effects to the rate from single events.
Same old bullshit. Do the same graphic taking out suicides and see how that changes the results. Your Chicago theory will go completely down in flames.
-------------------------------------------------------
> idiotseeker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How do you explain the gun violence and gun
> murder
> > rates of Chicago (500+ homicides in 2013),
> Newark
> > NJ, Trenton NJ, Detroit MI, Oakland Ca, New
> Haven
> > CT? All are cities with very restrictive gun
> laws
> > and their respective states have very
> restrictive
> > gun laws.
>
> That number would be 10,000+ homicides if the
> restrictions weren't in place.
>
> That's like saying there should be no speed limits
> because people still get into accidents.
>
> Or, people having to pay for stuff hasn't stopped
> stealing therefore everything should be free.
You're full of shit. lol
Criminals, who account for the vast majority of crime-related gun deaths, pay no attention to gun laws as it is. As the other poster correctly notes. Gun deaths actually have declined rather significantly since Chicago had to start issuing permits. Not that the effect is necessarily a direct result since there hasn't been enough time to make that conclusion on any legit basis, but that is the fact.
Beyond that, the vast majority of gun deaths that they're counting, like 2/3eds or more, are suicides. Most of which would happen guns or not.
The final group consists of unintentional deaths which amount to a relatively tiny number and are far below the rates of many other common causes. There, while there is some correlation, it is weak because it is primarily driven by random events rather than some causational effect and the overall numbers are so small that single events can result in 200%!!!-type differences in rates that they then cite.
As typical, Mother Jones is mixing a bunch of different largely unrelated stats to reach their foregone conclusion and obscuring the differences in magnitude by putting things in terms of percentages rather than raw numbers. They also don't adjust for population differences where in any such rate-based comparison lower population states will tend to show larger effects to the rate from single events.
Same old bullshit. Do the same graphic taking out suicides and see how that changes the results. Your Chicago theory will go completely down in flames.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Conservative Freedoms!
()
Date: September 30, 2014 12:07PM
Why do guntards always ignore the obvious.
More guns equals more gun violence. IT'S A PROVEN FACT.
Having a gun in a house makes the house LESS safer place. We hear stories all the time of kids shooting there friends or family members accidently shooting each other.
More guns equals more gun violence. IT'S A PROVEN FACT.
Having a gun in a house makes the house LESS safer place. We hear stories all the time of kids shooting there friends or family members accidently shooting each other.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Gunlover-tard
()
Date: September 30, 2014 12:29PM
idiotseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I looked up your "fact" of 114% murder
> rate, apparently most of those so called "murders"
> in high gun ownership states are suicides in the
> 35 and under age group.
Kindly support your argument by citing your source.
> ...why do you begrudge the lawful
> gun owners a guaranteed right?
In the immortal words of Mr. Mackey: "Guns are bad M'kay?"
You're wrong: I don't want your guns "taken away". I do want your guns to be registered. I do want you to be licensed to own a gun. I want you to have to buy additional insurance if you own a gun. I want to limit the number of guns you can buy in a year (to thwart straw purchasing). I want to outlaw private gun sales. I want through background checks for all gun purchases. I want to eliminate gun shows. I want mandatory trigger locks.
> The anti gunners show no
> inclination to curb wholesale slaughter of black
> youth in the inner city?
Here's a way: Limit access to guns. The majority of illegal gun are the result of either theft of straw purchases. End both by mandating trigger locks & instituting "purchase-over-time" limits.
> Using your own analogy,
> people speed in cars and cause death, so should we
> punish every car owner with a car governed at
> 55mph, even in Utah and Texas where 85 mph is
> legal on certain roadways?
We already limit speed on highways, as you point out.
> I hold no animosity towards you for your views
Nor I towards you. The problem is, guns in the community create problems that effect me. The only solution controlling access to guns.
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 12:29PM by Gunlover-tard.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I looked up your "fact" of 114% murder
> rate, apparently most of those so called "murders"
> in high gun ownership states are suicides in the
> 35 and under age group.
Kindly support your argument by citing your source.
> ...why do you begrudge the lawful
> gun owners a guaranteed right?
In the immortal words of Mr. Mackey: "Guns are bad M'kay?"
You're wrong: I don't want your guns "taken away". I do want your guns to be registered. I do want you to be licensed to own a gun. I want you to have to buy additional insurance if you own a gun. I want to limit the number of guns you can buy in a year (to thwart straw purchasing). I want to outlaw private gun sales. I want through background checks for all gun purchases. I want to eliminate gun shows. I want mandatory trigger locks.
> The anti gunners show no
> inclination to curb wholesale slaughter of black
> youth in the inner city?
Here's a way: Limit access to guns. The majority of illegal gun are the result of either theft of straw purchases. End both by mandating trigger locks & instituting "purchase-over-time" limits.
> Using your own analogy,
> people speed in cars and cause death, so should we
> punish every car owner with a car governed at
> 55mph, even in Utah and Texas where 85 mph is
> legal on certain roadways?
We already limit speed on highways, as you point out.
> I hold no animosity towards you for your views
Nor I towards you. The problem is, guns in the community create problems that effect me. The only solution controlling access to guns.
Never run out of spin.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people - quite often by accident.
The most important day in your life is the day some gunlover-tard accidentally kills you
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 12:29PM by Gunlover-tard.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Xymp9
()
Date: September 30, 2014 01:04PM
Conservative Freedoms! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do guntards always ignore the obvious.
>
> More guns equals more gun violence. IT'S A PROVEN
> FACT.
>
Wrong.
.
Hypothesis fails.
> Having a gun in a house makes the house LESS safer
> place. We hear stories all the time of kids
> shooting there friends or family members
> accidently shooting each other.
By a negligible amount and at a risk rate far exceeded by other common items/events.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do guntards always ignore the obvious.
>
> More guns equals more gun violence. IT'S A PROVEN
> FACT.
>
Wrong.
.
Hypothesis fails.
> Having a gun in a house makes the house LESS safer
> place. We hear stories all the time of kids
> shooting there friends or family members
> accidently shooting each other.
By a negligible amount and at a risk rate far exceeded by other common items/events.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Gunlover
()
Date: September 30, 2014 04:59PM
Show where one gun has been arrested for killing someone. Better yet show where one gun has been convicted for murder. Show were one gun has committed workplace shooting. Never has a gun killed anybody. No Myth but FACT.....Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Never Run Out of Ammo
Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People
Them or You
The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 05:02PM by Gunlover.
Never Run Out of Ammo
Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People
Them or You
The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 05:02PM by Gunlover.
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
Gunlover
()
Date: September 30, 2014 05:17PM
Hey OP stop using my signature statement, folks might think were are kin. Hate copy cats.
Never Run Out of Ammo
Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People
Them or You
The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why
Never Run Out of Ammo
Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People
Them or You
The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why
Re: Gunlover Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Posted by:
ktt
()
Date: September 30, 2014 05:48PM
Mother Jones has no way of accurately knowing how many guns are possessed illegally so they're just blowing hot air as usual. Any idea how many guns
are in DC or PG County that are illegal? Nobody knows.
are in DC or PG County that are illegal? Nobody knows.