The logic some folks use to in gun arguments..."guns don't kill people, people kill people"...

Couldn't that be used in defending just about anything somebody might want to use in a "free society", like, "drugs don't kill people, people kill people"...

Why make drugs certain drugs illegal, then?

People are justifiably killed by other people with guns only about 2% of the time. The right for Americans to have nearly unlimited access to guns needs to be restricted severely. The only good thing this chart shows is that nearly 20,000 gun owners are killing themselves every year. My guess is most of them are so ashamed that they have lived such a cowardly lifestyle that the kill themselves out of embarrassment.
Attachments:

czar tsar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The logic some folks use to in gun
> arguments..."guns don't kill people, people kill
> people"...
>
> Couldn't that be used in defending just about
> anything somebody might want to use in a "free
> society", like, "drugs don't kill people, people
> kill people"...
>
> Why make drugs certain drugs illegal, then?

There's no Constitutional right guaranteeing the use of illegal drugs.
Ever heard of the 2nd Amendment?

goood question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People are justifiably killed by other people with
> guns only about 2% of the time. The right for
> Americans to have nearly unlimited access to guns
> needs to be restricted severely. The only good
> thing this chart shows is that nearly 20,000 gun
> owners are killing themselves every year. My guess
> is most of them are so ashamed that they have
> lived such a cowardly lifestyle that the kill
> themselves out of embarrassment.

Full of hate? Check
Full of shit? Check
Complete lack of logic? Check

Yep, he's a liberal

Ive never understood why someone would use a gun to commit suicide. Very messy and not 100% successful all the time. Much nicer ways to off yourself.

I cannot think of many things more dangerous than having a gun in ones home.

Decrapitated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive never understood why someone would use a gun
> to commit suicide. Very messy and not 100%
> successful all the time. Much nicer ways to off
> yourself.


Gun owners are not very smart.

thats why the call them guntards Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gun owners are not very smart.

Correct. People who own hand guns and assault-style weapons are too stupid to understand why the shouldn't.

Long guns used for hunting are another matter.

Your are right, nuff said.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

hddve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> czar tsar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The logic some folks use to in gun
> > arguments..."guns don't kill people, people
> kill
> > people"...
> >
> > Couldn't that be used in defending just about
> > anything somebody might want to use in a "free
> > society", like, "drugs don't kill people,
> people
> > kill people"...
> >
> > Why make drugs certain drugs illegal, then?
>
> There's no Constitutional right guaranteeing the
> use of illegal drugs.
> Ever heard of the 2nd Amendment?

The original question did not say anything about "Constitutional rights".

It asked about a piece of logic used when talking about gun ownership, and its appilicability to other arguments.

Otherwise, I've heard of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Where does it say in the Constitution someone can't use drugs?

Decrapitated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive never understood why someone would use a gun
> to commit suicide. Very messy and not 100%
> successful all the time. Much nicer ways to off
> yourself.

The only reason suicides are included in this table is because of Commie/Liberals at the CDC who know they have no business sticking their noses into 2nd Amendment issues but they're going to try anyway. Pure bullshit. Maybe they should keep numbers on how many people commit suicide by hanging themselves and try to ban neckties and rope.

saddle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Decrapitated Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ive never understood why someone would use a
> gun
> > to commit suicide. Very messy and not 100%
> > successful all the time. Much nicer ways to off
> > yourself.
>
> The only reason suicides are included in this
> table is because of Commie/Liberals at the CDC who
> know they have no business sticking their noses
> into 2nd Amendment issues but they're going to try
> anyway. Pure bullshit. Maybe they should keep
> numbers on how many people commit suicide by
> hanging themselves and try to ban neckties and
> rope.

There is an impulsiveness to suicide that makes owning a handgun dangerous for susceptible people.

WFmwd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> saddle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Decrapitated Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ive never understood why someone would use a
> > gun
> > > to commit suicide. Very messy and not 100%
> > > successful all the time. Much nicer ways to
> off
> > > yourself.
> >
> > The only reason suicides are included in this
> > table is because of Commie/Liberals at the CDC
> who
> > know they have no business sticking their noses
> > into 2nd Amendment issues but they're going to
> try
> > anyway. Pure bullshit. Maybe they should keep
> > numbers on how many people commit suicide by
> > hanging themselves and try to ban neckties and
> > rope.
>
> There is an impulsiveness to suicide that makes
> owning a handgun dangerous for susceptible people.


"susceptible people" give us break liberal ass wipe, what makes you not susceptible?

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Guns are stupid, m-kay. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I cannot think of many things more dangerous than
> having a gun in ones home.

Guns can be dangerous but so are electricity, natural gas, razor blades, butcher knives, stairs, rat poison, prescription drugs, and a whole host of things that can be found in most homes throughout the US. What's you're point?

Truthful One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns are stupid, m-kay. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I cannot think of many things more dangerous
> than
> > having a gun in ones home.
>
> Guns can be dangerous but so are electricity,
> natural gas, razor blades, butcher knives, stairs,
> rat poison, prescription drugs, and a whole host
> of things that can be found in most homes
> throughout the US. What's you're point?

You are speaking to liberals, they can't see the forest for the trees.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Gunlover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truthful One Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guns are stupid, m-kay. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I cannot think of many things more dangerous
> > than
> > > having a gun in ones home.
> >
> > Guns can be dangerous but so are electricity,
> > natural gas, razor blades, butcher knives,
> stairs,
> > rat poison, prescription drugs, and a whole
> host
> > of things that can be found in most homes
> > throughout the US. What's you're point?
>
> You are speaking to liberals, they can't see the
> forest for the trees.

You got that right. It's as though they've never heard of the Heller and McDonald SCOTUS rulings. Doubt they'll read them either.

Truthful One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns are stupid, m-kay. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I cannot think of many things more dangerous
> than
> > having a gun in ones home.
>
> Guns can be dangerous but so are electricity,
> natural gas, razor blades, butcher knives, stairs,
> rat poison, prescription drugs, and a whole host
> of things that can be found in most homes
> throughout the US. What's you're point?

Cars are very dangerous. I bet more people die in car wrecks than by guns.

Ban cars!

Truthful One Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> Guns can be dangerous but so are electricity,
> natural gas, razor blades, butcher knives, stairs,
> rat poison, prescription drugs, and a whole host
> of things that can be found in most homes
> throughout the US.

Apples v. oranges, my gun nutty friend. None of those 'dangers' you mention are anywhere near as instantly, effortlessly and lethal as is a firearm. If you cannot comprehend that, there's no point to conversing with you.

Guns don't kill people, Gun owners kill people. Ban gun owners!

Guns are stupid, m-kay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thats why the call them guntards Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gun owners are not very smart.
>
> Correct. People who own hand guns and
> assault-style weapons are too stupid to understand
> why the shouldn't.
>
> Long guns used for hunting are another matter.


Fun little trick we have been playing on Gunlover. Always leave a sppelling error or grammatical error for him and he attacks it. Falls for it every time. That is all the game he has got.

Guns are stupid, m-kay. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truthful One Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > Guns can be dangerous but so are electricity,
> > natural gas, razor blades, butcher knives,
> stairs,
> > rat poison, prescription drugs, and a whole
> host
> > of things that can be found in most homes
> > throughout the US.
>
> Apples v. oranges, my gun nutty friend. None of
> those 'dangers' you mention are anywhere near as
> instantly, effortlessly and lethal as is a
> firearm. If you cannot comprehend that, there's
> no point to conversing with you.

People don't kill themselves because they have a gun. They kill themselves because they want to die. They use a gun because they know that they work. If they don't have guns, they'll substitute another method. The other poster actually had a good point re ties since hanging is not far behind guns as a chosen method both in numbers and effectiveness.

If you actually knew anything about the subject, then you'd understand that impulsive-type suicides are a very small percentage. The vast majority are people with long-term clinical mental problems and/or substance abuse histories. You won't do much of anything to affect suicide rates with anything done related to guns. Addressing alcohol and substance abuse would have a far greater effect. The correlation is much greater across all suicides regardless of method chosen.

As it turns out, one of the most remarkable discoveries about suicide and how to reduce it occurred utterly by chance. It came about not through some breakthrough in pharmacology or the treatment of mental illness but rather through an energy-conversion scheme carried out in Britain in the 1960s and ’70s. Among those familiar with the account, it is often referred to simply as “the British coal-gas story.”

For generations, the people of Britain heated their homes and fueled their stoves with coal gas. While plentiful and cheap, coal-derived gas could also be deadly; in its unburned form, it released very high levels of carbon monoxide, and an open valve or a leak in a closed space could induce asphyxiation in a matter of minutes. This extreme toxicity also made it a preferred method of suicide. “Sticking one’s head in the oven” became so common in Britain that by the late 1950s it accounted for some 2,500 suicides a year, almost half the nation’s total.

Those numbers began dropping over the next decade as the British government embarked on a program to phase out coal gas in favor of the much cleaner natural gas. By the early 1970s, the amount of carbon monoxide running through domestic gas lines had been reduced to nearly zero. During those same years, Britain’s national suicide rate dropped by nearly a third, and it has remained close to that reduced level ever since.

How can this be? After all, if the impulse to suicide is primarily rooted in mental illness and that illness goes untreated, how does merely closing off one means of self-destruction have any lasting effect? At least a partial answer is that many of those Britons who asphyxiated themselves did so impulsively. In a moment of deep despair or rage or sadness, they turned to what was easy and quick and deadly — “the execution chamber in everyone’s kitchen,” as one psychologist described it — and that instrument allowed little time for second thoughts. Remove it, and the process slowed down; it allowed time for the dark passion to pass.

Ghost of Robin Williams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People don't kill themselves because they have a
> gun. They kill themselves because they want to
> die. They use a gun because they know that they
> work. If they don't have guns, they'll substitute
> another method.

I'm not referring to suicides only. There are myriad situations, moments of passion, in which the presence of firearm can result in a tragedy that no other weapon can as instantly, effortlessly deliver.

Guns are stupid, m-kay. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ghost of Robin Williams Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > People don't kill themselves because they have
> a
> > gun. They kill themselves because they want to
> > die. They use a gun because they know that
> they
> > work. If they don't have guns, they'll
> substitute
> > another method.
>
> I'm not referring to suicides only. There are
> myriad situations, moments of passion, in which
> the presence of firearm can result in a tragedy
> that no other weapon can as instantly,
> effortlessly deliver.


Yes, such as murder suicide.

9TnCE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, such as murder suicide.

Or just plain old murder.

Guns do kill people. That's what guns are for. Scales weigh people. Chairs seat people. Cars transport people. Mirrors reflect images of people. Blankets warm people. Food feeds people. Clothes dress people. TV's entertain people.

Guns kill fucking people. That's the reason for their existence.

Guns don't kill people is a stupid saying. Stick your stupid saying up your stupid ass.

The only reason I support gun ownership is because I believe it protects us from tyranny. That's the most compelling reason for gun rights.

Outside of that I don't need dumb ass word games and mind fuck attempts.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns do kill people. That's what guns are for.
> Scales weigh people. Chairs seat people. Cars
> transport people. Mirrors reflect images of
> people. Blankets warm people. Food feeds people.
> Clothes dress people. TV's entertain people.
>
> Guns kill fucking people. That's the reason for
> their existence.
>
> Guns don't kill people is a stupid saying. Stick
> your stupid saying up your stupid ass.
>
> The only reason I support gun ownership is because
> I believe it protects us from tyranny. That's the
> most compelling reason for gun rights.
>
> Outside of that I don't need dumb ass word games
> and mind fuck attempts.


I agree with you G2 but blankets can only insulate people unless you are talking about an electric blanket.

Will one of our liberal participants at least acknowledge that you've read the SCOTUS rulings in Heller and McDonald?

trup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will one of our liberal participants at least
> acknowledge that you've read the SCOTUS rulings in
> Heller and McDonald?

Yes, I have read them.

Please explain what the Heller and McDonald decisions have to do with the logic of..."guns don't kill people, people kill people"...

.

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo
Attachments:

9dj3G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> trup Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Will one of our liberal participants at least
> > acknowledge that you've read the SCOTUS rulings
> in
> > Heller and McDonald?
>
> Yes, I have read them.
>
> Please explain what the Heller and McDonald
> decisions have to do with the logic of..."guns
> don't kill people, people kill people"...


Does it say guns do or don't kill people?

longtime un-registered Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns are stupid, m-kay Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > thats why the call them guntards Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Gun owners are not very smart.
> >
> > Correct. People who own hand guns and
> > assault-style weapons are too stupid to
> understand
> > why the shouldn't.
> >
> > Long guns used for hunting are another matter.
>
>
> Fun little trick we have been playing on Gunlover.
> Always leave a sppelling error or grammatical
> error for him and he attacks it. Falls for it
> every time. That is all the game he has got.

We?

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns do kill people. That's what guns are for.
> Scales weigh people. Chairs seat people. Cars
> transport people. Mirrors reflect images of
> people. Blankets warm people. Food feeds people.
> Clothes dress people. TV's entertain people.
>
> Guns kill fucking people. That's the reason for
> their existence.
>
> Guns don't kill people is a stupid saying. Stick
> your stupid saying up your stupid ass.
>
> The only reason I support gun ownership is because
> I believe it protects us from tyranny. That's the
> most compelling reason for gun rights.
>
> Outside of that I don't need dumb ass word games
> and mind fuck attempts.

Well don't let your gun kill anybody.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Answers? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does it say guns do or don't kill people?

You mean 'they', and the answer is no.

Guntards! Nuff said.

What are guns designed to do?

Kill.

The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill."

It doesn't say except in self-defense, or except when a nigger gets in your grille or tries to steal your TV set.

The Second Amendment, as ratified, says "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It doesn't say guns, fully automatic weapons, or any of that shit. It says arms and it says "A well regulated militia...."

I say regulate the shit out the so=called militia and put their arms and their ammo in a fucking armory - just like we do in the military.

Chicken & Egg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are guns designed to do?
>
> Kill.
>
> The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill."
>
> It doesn't say except in self-defense, or except
> when a nigger gets in your grille or tries to
> steal your TV set.
>
> The Second Amendment, as ratified, says "A well
> regulated militia being necessary to the security
> of a free state, the right of the people to keep
> and bear arms shall not be infringed."
>
> It doesn't say guns, fully automatic weapons, or
> any of that shit. It says arms and it says "A
> well regulated militia...."
>
> I say regulate the shit out the so=called militia
> and put their arms and their ammo in a fucking
> armory - just like we do in the military.

"Thou" is Man not Gun

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Chicken & Egg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are guns designed to do?
>
> Kill.
>
> The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill."
>
> It doesn't say except in self-defense, or except
> when a nigger gets in your grille or tries to
> steal your TV set.
>
> The Second Amendment, as ratified, says "A well
> regulated militia being necessary to the security
> of a free state, the right of the people to keep
> and bear arms shall not be infringed."
>
> It doesn't say guns, fully automatic weapons, or
> any of that shit. It says arms and it says "A
> well regulated militia...."
>
> I say regulate the shit out the so=called militia
> and put their arms and their ammo in a fucking
> armory - just like we do in the military.

Yet again another libtard who knows nothing of previous SCOTUS rulings.

This guy had has gun with him and he was killed? How the fuck it that possible?

Oh wait guns don't really protect people. That's a false myth.
Attachments:

Deadman Laying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This guy had has gun with him and he was killed?
> How the fuck it that possible?
>
> Oh wait guns don't really protect people. That's
> a false myth.


Did they arrest the gun?

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Now we just need to know where some gun owner lives so we get ourselves some free gaks baby!
Attachments:

Gunlover why don't you post your address so nobody robs you?

Oh wait you don't want people to know you own guns and where you live?

Michael Bloomberg's bodyguards have lots of guns.

We need a map like this of Fairfax county? Does anybody know how to make one?

It would also be nice to see what type of guns are available at the houses.

Can't that be done by FOIA requests?
Attachments:

Yo Bros Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gunlover why don't you post your address so nobody
> robs you?
>
> Oh wait you don't want people to know you own guns
> and where you live?

People are welcome to come over but most don't because they think it is too dangerous.

Ammo too expensive so I don't fire warning shots.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

.
Attachments:

JLP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Here a liberal type answer

Because I can have one and the US Constitution specially support that. Love America or leave it, you won't be missed.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Gunlover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> People are welcome to come over but most don't
> because they think it is too dangerous.
>
> Ammo too expensive so I don't fire warning shots.

I don't blame them. I wouldn't want my children or family around some gunnut either.

3KJcU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As it turns out, one of the most remarkable
> discoveries about suicide and how to reduce it
> occurred utterly by chance. It came about not
> through some breakthrough in pharmacology or the
> treatment of mental illness but rather through an
> energy-conversion scheme carried out in Britain in
> the 1960s and ’70s. Among those familiar with
> the account, it is often referred to simply as
> “the British coal-gas story.”
>

As it turns out, your example is the standard, overly simplistic one Googled up by people who don't really know what they're talking about and is disputed with respect to the gun equivalent on any number of bases.

Although there likely was some degree of association, looking at things based on that factor alone and in terms of aggregate statistics masks more significant factors and distinctions which make any actual reduction appear much smaller. As has been pointed out many times since.

First, the "drop" was not from some baseline trend which existed prior to. It reflects a drop from a peak in 1962-1963 back more to historical levels. So claiming a "drop" is somewhat misleading to begin with. In the same way that murder stats have "dropped" when considered against the surge from the crack epidemic in the 80s back to more normal levels. The increase at least partially being explained by a typical rise in suicide rates post-war among the affected age group (as we also see to some degree now). You can see the same rise and drop outside of the UK, just as you can see a *greater* drop in murder rates in the US after Australia imposed its gun ban there, which obviously is unrelated.

Second, when viewed in the aggregate, it masks significant distinctions among various groups within. That's reflected in CO suicides dropping by 1/2 but overall suicides dropping only by 1/3. In the case of men, the largest group, they mostly simply substituted other methods. i.e., as CO suicides declined, the use of other methods rose. There was some reduction but not nearly as large as presented. Same with females and even more so versus CO specifically compared to other methods (since women tend to use 'easier' methods to begin with, CO being relatively easy and available).

Related to the above, it also looks at suicide in the aggregate as a single-type event. That's not the case. The bulk of the 1/3 difference was among the elderly who also tend to look for easier end-of-life methods. That same effect would not apply in the case of, for example, middle-aged, substance abusing white men in the US who are more inclined to end it with a gun. i.e., While an old lady with terminal illness may become depressed to the point that she wants to easily end it all by sticking her head in an oven, they're never very likely to ever put a barrel in their mouth. On the other hand, the alcohol/drug abusing male with a history of depression has no such reservations. Nor does the clinically mental teenager who hangs themselves, etc. Suicide/parasuicide/impulsive suicide is not the same across all such groups so what affects one has far less of an effect on others. Jumpers tend to have a very high impulsive rate relative to other methods, so keeping people off of popular bridges does work to some degree. Guns not so much. While overall stats may be reduced as a result of some preventive approach made, the change is not applicable across all subgroups within.

Third, it looks at only one population and assumes that applies overall. The same change was made in Scotland, yet the effect was not the same. Overall suicide rates did decrease, again from a peak also seen elsewhere, but increased and remained higher than the baseline prior to the late 50s-early 60s. In fact, as above, you can see the same general trend in a number ofother Western countries which did nothing at all related to coal gas.

And on and on through numerous other details which the simplistic example hides.

The fact is, as evidenced by the vast bulk of research, that beyond a relatively tiny number, very few people impulsively commit suicide with a gun. Trying to reduce gun-related suicide through gun control is about the equivalent of trying to prevent hanging suicides via rope control.

"A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.

The lesson? Many lives would likely be saved if people disposed of their firearms, kept them locked away, or stored them outside the home. Says HSPH Professor of Health Policy David Hemenway, the ICRC’s director: “Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide.”

CDC information:

All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 46,047
Deaths per 100,000 population: 14.8

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,783
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.8

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 32,351
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.4

FBI stats:

According to the FBI, in 2010 the total number of gun related deaths was 8,775 and in 2011 it was 8,583.
These numbers can seem high. And snatched out of thin air by gun-grabbers, these numbers seem to represent death on an unbelievable scale. But when compared with other types of death -- like car accidents, and/or the reckless and intentionally-fatal uses of an automobile -- the gun death numbers literally pale in comparison.

For example, according to the Centers For Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the total number of deaths related to automobiles in 2009 was 34,485. In other words, more people died via automobiles in 2009 alone than died in gun-related deaths for the years 2005, 2006, and 2007 combined.

Moreover, according to the CDC, more people died from falls in 2009 alone than died in gun-related deaths for the years 2009, 2010, and most of 2011 combined. (Total number of deaths via falls in 2009 was 24,792.)

The bottom line: Driving down the interstate and climbing rocks and ladders is exceedingly dangerous when compared with owning and using handguns, shotguns, and rifles.

I know Libtardz don't pay attention to facts. But I figured I would post them just in case.

2 more charts for you:
.
Attachments:

NKLKj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of
> all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between
> rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on
> a survey of American households conducted in 2002,
> HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and
> Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate
> Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s
> Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that
> in states where guns were prevalent—as in
> Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported
> owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The
> inverse was also true: where gun ownership was
> less common, suicide rates were also lower.
>
> The lesson? Many lives would likely be saved if
> people disposed of their firearms, kept them
> locked away, or stored them outside the home. Says
> HSPH Professor of Health Policy David Hemenway,
> the ICRC’s director: “Studies show that most
> attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or
> despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent
> do not go on to die by suicide.”


The lesson really is that WY, ID, and most other states with higher rates of gun ownership also have higher relative percentages of adult white males in the population which by far is the primary group which tends to select guns as a method. As well as relatively smaller populations which tends to magnify the effect of individual events.

And they neglected to mention that these areas also tend to have very low murder rates.

Here's a hint to know that you're off course...

Most all of what you'll see implying guns as any sort cause of suicide and some implication of related "impulsive suicide" comes from anti-gun and public policy sites. Most of which, in typical fashion, obscures and/or distorts some key aspects of the cited stats.

Very little of that comes from the mental health and related research community where that's largely dismissed or viewed as at best a tertiary factor and in terms of lethality of attempts goes. That's reflected in the campaigns of anti-suicide groups where you'll typically find very little focus on impulsive suicide overall or related to guns in particular. Most all is related to identifying longer term behaviors and treatment approaches. That's because most understand that there is very little truly impulsive suicide to begin with. Much of which is rather arbitrarily assigned as impulsive isn't really on deeper review. Most all of those involved in "impulsive suicides" actually have longer histories of mental issues, substance abuse, prior para-suicide and suicide attempts, criminal histories and other impulsive behaviors, etc. They just happen to eventually succumb to those behaviors and get it right at some point.

Bottom line, most believe that you're dealing with something on the order of maybe 2%-5% of suicides being truly impulsive, with jumpers making up the largest portion of those in terms of rate/method. People who tend to select guns and hanging show much less impulsivity but with high rates of success. Those who select drugs/poisons and cutting show much higher impulsivity and numbers of attempts, but much lower success rates and very high numbers of less serious para-suicide attempts.

If guns killed people nobody would make it out of a gun show alive.

ban libtardz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CDC information:
>
> All poisoning deaths
> Number of deaths: 46,047
> Deaths per 100,000 population: 14.8
>
> Motor vehicle traffic deaths
> Number of deaths: 33,783
> Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.8
>
> All firearm deaths
> Number of deaths: 32,351
> Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.4
>
> FBI stats:
>
> According to the FBI, in 2010 the total number of
> gun related deaths was 8,775 and in 2011 it was
> 8,583.
> These numbers can seem high. And snatched out of
> thin air by gun-grabbers, these numbers seem to
> represent death on an unbelievable scale. But when
> compared with other types of death -- like car
> accidents, and/or the reckless and
> intentionally-fatal uses of an automobile -- the
> gun death numbers literally pale in comparison.
>
> For example, according to the Centers For Disease
> Control and Prevention (CDC), the total number of
> deaths related to automobiles in 2009 was 34,485.
> In other words, more people died via automobiles
> in 2009 alone than died in gun-related deaths for
> the years 2005, 2006, and 2007 combined.
>
> Moreover, according to the CDC, more people died
> from falls in 2009 alone than died in gun-related
> deaths for the years 2009, 2010, and most of 2011
> combined. (Total number of deaths via falls in
> 2009 was 24,792.)
>
> The bottom line: Driving down the interstate and
> climbing rocks and ladders is exceedingly
> dangerous when compared with owning and using
> handguns, shotguns, and rifles.
>
> I know Libtardz don't pay attention to facts. But
> I figured I would post them just in case.


So let's reduce the max speed limit to 35
That sould reduce many deaths
We can limit the max weight of cars as well

For fails I would need to know if that was rock claiming or old folks failing down before I can help with that.

Cars driven by people kill people.

You have to take drivers education, pass a written test and a road test, and get a license to drive a car. You have to retest every once in a while.

Your car has to pass an annual safety test and an emissions test to be deemed road worthy.

You have to get a license plate for your car.

You can only park your car in legally designated areas.

You have to have insurance for your car in case you shit the bed and kill or injure someone in an accident.

They don't let retards, blind people, folks that have seizures get a drivers license.

You can't legally operate a vehicle while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Cars are designed to transport people and goods from point A to point B. Lots of regulations - to keep people safe and from getting killed.

So why the fuck wouldn't we have similar legal restrictions and regulations on guns - that are specifically designed for purpose of killing?

I own a bunch of guns and am an avid hunter, but I don't have any problem what so fucking ever with common sense gun laws and restrictions.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns do kill people. That's what guns are for.
> Scales weigh people. Chairs seat people. Cars
> transport people. Mirrors reflect images of
> people. Blankets warm people. Food feeds people.
> Clothes dress people. TV's entertain people.
>
> Guns kill fucking people. That's the reason for
> their existence.
>
> Guns don't kill people is a stupid saying. Stick
> your stupid saying up your stupid ass.
>
> The only reason I support gun ownership is because
> I believe it protects us from tyranny. That's the
> most compelling reason for gun rights.
>
> Outside of that I don't need dumb ass word games
> and mind fuck attempts.

Hey bird brain. Tell me if you agree or disgaree with this statement.

A fully loaded gun is laying on a table. No human touches the gun for 100 years.

Did the gun ever kill someone? No it didnt, in 100 hundred years it never killed anyone.

Killer of Things Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> You have to have insurance for your car in case
> you shit the bed and kill or injure someone in an
> accident.
>
>

FALSE. In VA you can drive your car without insurance.

ReAnimator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guns do kill people. That's what guns are for.
>
> > Scales weigh people. Chairs seat people. Cars
> > transport people. Mirrors reflect images of
> > people. Blankets warm people. Food feeds
> people.
> > Clothes dress people. TV's entertain people.
>
> >
> > Guns kill fucking people. That's the reason
> for
> > their existence.
> >
> > Guns don't kill people is a stupid saying.
> Stick
> > your stupid saying up your stupid ass.
> >
> > The only reason I support gun ownership is
> because
> > I believe it protects us from tyranny. That's
> the
> > most compelling reason for gun rights.
> >
> > Outside of that I don't need dumb ass word
> games
> > and mind fuck attempts.
>
> Hey bird brain. Tell me if you agree or disgaree
> with this statement.
>
> A fully loaded gun is laying on a table. No human
> touches the gun for 100 years.
>
> Did the gun ever kill someone? No it didnt, in 100
> hundred years it never killed anyone.


Data please

ReAnimator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Killer of Things Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > You have to have insurance for your car in case
> > you shit the bed and kill or injure someone in
> an
> > accident.
> >
> >
>
> FALSE. In VA you can drive your car without
> insurance.

That's all you got from that?

Lord save us Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> That's all you got from that?

That post is complete BS. I have purchased plenty of firearms over the years and every one required a VASP background check, which sometimes took several days I might add. So dont give me this shit about there are no regulations for owning a gun.

Killer of Things Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cars driven by people kill people.
>
> You have to take drivers education, pass a written
> test and a road test, and get a license to drive a
> car. You have to retest every once in a while.

Not having a license have never stop anybody from not driving. You don't have to have license to buy a car. Anybody can buy a car even a 90 year old lady.
>
> Your car has to pass an annual safety test and an
> emissions test to be deemed road worthy.

Road full of junkers.

>
> You have to get a license plate for your car. UN-license drivers plenty of them.
>
> You can only park your car in legally designated
> areas.

People park where they want to park, who cares about $3.00 tickets.

> You have to have insurance for your car in case
> you shit the bed and kill or injure someone in an
> accident.

Lot of Un-insured drivers and young drivers driving parent cars and not on insurance. Its too expensive for the parents and they allow it. 50% of the cars on the road are un-insured.

> They don't let retards, blind people, folks that
> have seizures get a drivers license.

How do they check the seizures? They don't you making shit up. People with impaired vision still can drive and get licenses.


> You can't legally operate a vehicle while under
> the influence of drugs or alcohol.


You got to be kidding. DUI/DWIs kill a bunch of folks every day. Nothing to stop a drunks from driving. Moral obligation to stop, yea sure that why they are called drunks.


> Cars are designed to transport people and goods
> from point A to point B. Lots of regulations - to
> keep people safe and from getting killed.


Sure bus accidents, truck accident, car accidents, your kids killing folks driving without permission or with permission.

> So why the fuck wouldn't we have similar legal
> restrictions and regulations on guns - that are
> specifically designed for purpose of killing?

We do. Have you ever looked.

> I own a bunch of guns and am an avid hunter, but I
> don't have any problem what so fucking ever with
> common sense gun laws and restrictions.

Okay, that your right to give up.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 07:22PM by Gunlover.

GunLover Wrote
> Not having a license have never stop anybody from not driving.

Well, you just killed the English language without a license. You would never be allowed to even look at a weapon on my range.

Killer of Things Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GunLover Wrote
> > Not having a license have never stop anybody
> from not driving.
>
> Well, you just killed the English language without
> a license. You would never be allowed to even look
> at a weapon on my range.

Sure

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

GunLover - you should send your DNA down to the Smithsonian. They're still trying to find the missing link.

Killer of Things Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GunLover Wrote
> > Not having a license have never stop anybody
> from not driving.
>
> Well, you just killed the English language without
> a license. You would never be allowed to even look
> at a weapon on my range.


Easy now, This Gunlover clown is just a dumb kid.

Killer of Things Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GunLover - you should send your DNA down to the
> Smithsonian. They're still trying to find the
> missing link.


Sure

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Dead on balls ranger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Killer of Things Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GunLover Wrote
> > > Not having a license have never stop anybody
> > from not driving.
> >
> > Well, you just killed the English language
> without
> > a license. You would never be allowed to even
> look
> > at a weapon on my range.
>
>
> Easy now, This Gunlover clown is just a dumb kid.

Sure

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Smart People Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gunlover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > People are welcome to come over but most don't
> > because they think it is too dangerous.
> >
> > Ammo too expensive so I don't fire warning
> shots.
>
> I don't blame them. I wouldn't want my children
> or family around some gunnut either.

Good, Don't bring yourself and your little savages around me.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Gunlover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smart People Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gunlover Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > People are welcome to come over but most
> don't
> > > because they think it is too dangerous.
> > >
> > > Ammo too expensive so I don't fire warning
> > shots.
> >
> > I don't blame them. I wouldn't want my
> children
> > or family around some gunnut either.
>
> Good, Don't bring yourself and your little savages
> around me.


I shove ammo in my pants so people think I have a dick

Gun lover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gunlover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Smart People Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Gunlover Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > People are welcome to come over but most
> > don't
> > > > because they think it is too dangerous.
> > > >
> > > > Ammo too expensive so I don't fire warning
> > > shots.
> > >
> > > I don't blame them. I wouldn't want my
> > children
> > > or family around some gunnut either.
> >
> > Good, Don't bring yourself and your little
> savages
> > around me.
>
>
> I shove ammo in my pants so people think I have a
> dick

Woe is you.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

Guns kill people like food makes people fat.

Libs really are pathetically stooopid.

Epic PWNAGE on here everyday and the libs come back for more.

libs hate America. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns kill people like food makes people fat.

And most gun owners are fat. Coincidence?

DwLNy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> libs hate America. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guns kill people like food makes people fat.
>
> And most gun owners are fat. Coincidence?

Your imagination is running wild.

20/20 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DwLNy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > libs hate America. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Guns kill people like food makes people fat.
> >
> > And most gun owners are fat. Coincidence?
>
> Your imagination is running wild.
>
> src=http://25.media.tumblr.com/8eeba897d178d24abef
> 27c05d347e505/tumblr_mxzyqkPEJO1t8top2o1_1280.jpg>


Love a girl with a gun. She is fine and the gun is fine.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

9dj3G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> trup Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Will one of our liberal participants at least
> > acknowledge that you've read the SCOTUS rulings
> in
> > Heller and McDonald?
>
> Yes, I have read them.
>
> Please explain what the Heller and McDonald
> decisions have to do with the logic of..."guns
> don't kill people, people kill people"...

Liberals are in denial that Heller & McDonald are relevant to gun ownership
and what kinds of guns should be legal. A gun is an inanimate object and
cannot go off by themselves. Now, since you claim to have read the SCOTUS
rulings perhaps you could explain why the libs think their opinion trumps
the law?