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Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Date: January 26, 2009 02:16PM

It's 2009. Man has been to the moon.

Yet...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090126/sc_mcclatchy/3153454

I find this news instructive:

"Gallup found a political angle to the split. Two-thirds of Republicans rejected Darwin's theory, while majorities of Democrats and political independents accepted it."

No wonder the Republican party is tanking - they are giving too much sway to dark age science and the religious right.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 26, 2009 02:39PM

Now that Graham's, Swaggarts, Robertsons and Haggerts are either dead or soon to be dead, soon there will be no more super popular TV evangelist's to get behind (no pun intended). I'd be willing to bet that most of the republicans still supporting the religious right aren't really creationist's anyway, they just follow the money (tax free of course).

Hang in there Professor, this is all going to be coming to a head soon and we'll know for sure which direction the USA is heading in. Hopefully it will be forward, but if the latest news from the Netherlands is any indication, we could easily go backwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJKRF2uB8xU&feature=channel_page

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: January 26, 2009 03:27PM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that Graham's, Swaggarts, Robertsons and
> Haggerts are either dead or soon to be dead, soon
> there will be no more super popular TV
> evangelist's to get behind (no pun intended). I'd
> be willing to bet that most of the republicans
> still supporting the religious right aren't really
> creationist's anyway, they just follow the money
> (tax free of course).
>
> Hang in there Professor, this is all going to be
> coming to a head soon and we'll know for sure
> which direction the USA is heading in. Hopefully
> it will be forward, but if the latest news from
> the Netherlands is any indication, we could easily
> go backwards.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJKRF2uB8xU&feature
> =channel_page


What a nut that guy in the video is...Im sure he would disagree wiuth the hate crime laws we have in this country! Thats all the Netherlands laws are meant to preclude...hate speak!

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 26, 2009 06:34PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What a nut that guy in the video is...Im sure he
> would disagree wiuth the hate crime laws we have
> in this country! Thats all the Netherlands laws
> are meant to preclude...hate speak!

Pat Condell is one of the few people brave enough to stand up against Islam. He is constantly issued death threats by muslims because he doesn't want to see Europe turned backwards in time. Unfortunately, he is losing the battle in his own home, Great Britain. People there are getting more and more fed up with this shit and pretty soon it's going to break loose.

LOL, "Hate Speak".
Vince, for starters, there is no such thing as a "hate crime". There is crime and there is no crime. If you commit murder, it doesn't matter whether you did it because you hated the person, or the person's race or ideology, the person is just as dead and the perpetrator is just as guilty. You can only kill someone so much with the death penalty and there is no difference between a 75 year sentence and a 150 year sentence. Your still fucked.

Since Islam is NOT a race, but a religion (or death cult as far as I'm concerned), how is criticizing it considered a hate crime? It deserves criticism and now they have successfully managed to quell free speech in the Netherlands and set up Sharian Courts in Great Britain. WTF? It's now okay for them to spew fatwas for killing all the jews and non-muslims, artist's and cartoon drawers, Salman Rushdie and anyone else they don't like, but we can't criticize this fanatical behavior without being brought up on charges?

How can you support the suppression of free speech? Next up for the Netherlands, Sharian courts.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Lopter ()
Date: January 26, 2009 06:38PM

Don't most Republicans also believe the Sun rotates around the Earth?

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Date: January 26, 2009 08:45PM

Professor Pangloss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's 2009. Man has been to the moon.
>
> Yet...
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090126/sc_mccl
> atchy/3153454
>
> I find this news instructive:
>
> "Gallup found a political angle to the split.
> Two-thirds of Republicans rejected Darwin's
> theory, while majorities of Democrats and
> political independents accepted it."
>
> No wonder the Republican party is tanking - they
> are giving too much sway to dark age science and
> the religious right.

I will let you teach Creationism in schools if you let me use science in your Church to disprove God.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: January 26, 2009 10:04PM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > What a nut that guy in the video is...Im sure
> he
> > would disagree wiuth the hate crime laws we
> have
> > in this country! Thats all the Netherlands
> laws
> > are meant to preclude...hate speak!
>
> Pat Condell is one of the few people brave enough
> to stand up against Islam. He is constantly issued
> death threats by muslims because he doesn't want
> to see Europe turned backwards in time.
> Unfortunately, he is losing the battle in his own
> home, Great Britain. People there are getting more
> and more fed up with this shit and pretty soon
> it's going to break loose.
>
> LOL, "Hate Speak".
> Vince, for starters, there is no such thing as a
> "hate crime". There is crime and there is no
> crime. If you commit murder, it doesn't matter
> whether you did it because you hated the person,
> or the person's race or ideology, the person is
> just as dead and the perpetrator is just as
> guilty. You can only kill someone so much with the
> death penalty and there is no difference between a
> 75 year sentence and a 150 year sentence. Your
> still fucked.
>
> Since Islam is NOT a race, but a religion (or
> death cult as far as I'm concerned), how is
> criticizing it considered a hate crime? It
> deserves criticism and now they have successfully
> managed to quell free speech in the Netherlands
> and set up Sharian Courts in Great Britain. WTF?
> It's now okay for them to spew fatwas for killing
> all the jews and non-muslims, artist's and cartoon
> drawers, Salman Rushdie and anyone else they don't
> like, but we can't criticize this fanatical
> behavior without being brought up on charges?
>
> How can you support the suppression of free
> speech? Next up for the Netherlands, Sharian
> courts.


There is no unlimited free speech guarantee in any constitution or body of law any where in the world. Your buddy's speech is distorted and groups all muslims into one group...no wonder he generates such hatred...it's designed to generate hatred..and is thus hate talk...and a hate crime.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 26, 2009 11:40PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There is no unlimited free speech guarantee in any
> constitution or body of law any where in the
> world. Your buddy's speech is distorted and
> groups all muslims into one group...no wonder he
> generates such hatred...it's designed to generate
> hatred..and is thus hate talk...and a hate crime.

All muslims ARE in one group, just like all Christians, Jews, Hindu, Buddist's, etc...They either obey the Quran or they don't. Those that do, the fanatics, are muslims and are currently the purveyors of the greatest hatred on the planet today. They hate everyone that is not muslim and the religious leaders make it quite clear to the whole world what their agenda is.

Your probably thinking, there are the fanatics and the moderates and only the fanatics are dangerous. Yet the "moderates" never seem to speak out when major terror attacks occur, why?
a) They're not really muslim or just part time (only when friends or family stop by)
b) They're scared shitless to say anything because they'll be fucked if they do.
c) They support the fanatics

Criticizing Islam is no different from criticizing the US government, christianity, Ku Klux Klan or the Back Street Boys (sorry, you might be a fan).
What constitutes "hatred" in your mind, criticism of Islam or death threats to those that do?

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 27, 2009 12:07AM

Islam meets Vince
Attachments:
vincesview4.jpg

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: January 27, 2009 01:20AM

Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't most Republicans also believe the Sun
> rotates around the Earth?


Well, "around" is not exactly right, since the earth is flat. I think they just believe the sun goes away at the end of the day, and if they pray hard enough, God will make it come back again the next morning.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: January 27, 2009 07:09AM

Dear Numbers..all religions ferment the hate you are experiencing. I am sure yoiu consider yourself a very devout religious person yourself. Me...I think if it would work...I'd ban all religions. But that wont work..religion attacks us at our core weakness...we dont want to die. But die we must..and that's that.

My recommendation to you is to stop listening to the finatics on both sides. Strive for a secular society. Bring all gods prophets to the status of santa claus...or an action figure where we can all enjoy them and thus take away their siginificance.

Lumping all muslims..all christians...all jews into one group is potentially very dangerous...it is the same logic the allows hatred to ferment and to have whatever disfavored group at the time designated as sub-human.

allah be praised!

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: January 27, 2009 08:32AM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All muslims ARE in one group, just like all
> Christians, Jews, Hindu, Buddist's, etc...They
> either obey the Quran or they don't. Those that
> do, the fanatics, are muslims and are currently
> the purveyors of the greatest hatred on the planet
> today. They hate everyone that is not muslim and
> the religious leaders make it quite clear to the
> whole world what their agenda is.
>
> Your probably thinking, there are the fanatics and
> the moderates and only the fanatics are dangerous.
> Yet the "moderates" never seem to speak out when
> major terror attacks occur, why?
> a) They're not really muslim or just part time
> (only when friends or family stop by)
> b) They're scared shitless to say anything because
> they'll be fucked if they do.
> c) They support the fanatics
>

I guess I should remind you that Timothy McVeigh was a right-wing militant while we're talking about putting all people into one group or another.

Luckily, not everyone sees things as absolute and monolithic, as you seem to by your comment. Otherwise, all republicans would be lumped in with the baby-killing McVeigh and would be condemned for the bombing of the Murrah building.

To say that there are no moderate muslims is like saying that all Catholics are terrorists because the IRA was an Irish Catholic group fighting against the protestant Irish and British rule.

Oh well. I think we should round up everyone who is any bit right of center as potential domestic terrorists since Timothy McVeigh was a right-wing terrorist.

Do you only watch Fox News? Because maybe on that channel they don't report things like Salman Rushdie writing a book against radical islamists and being sentenced to death for it, or the clerics in London who speak out constantly against militant islamists, or the moderate islamic regimes like those in UAE or even at this point, Egypt.


http://revjimsutter.blogspot.com/2006/10/muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism.html
When people ask "Why don't Muslims speak out against terrorism", the answer is: They do. For whatever reason, our Western media isn't doing a very good job at covering it. Below are links to (at minimum) several hundred Muslim political and religious leaders speaking out against and condemning terrorism.

www.freemuslims.org/hi-rez-ad.mov (needs Quicktime viewer or view directly from website at www.freemuslims.org)

Muslims against terrorism and extremism: Free Muslims Coalition

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

The American Muslim (TAM)

ISCC PR

Muslims Against Terrorism (MAT)

Muslim and Arab Leaders Call for Calm in Cartoon Controversy

MND NewsLog: Muslim and Arab Leaders Call for Calm in Cartoon Controversy

French religious leaders call for calm in face of nationwide violence

Muslim Condemnations of 9/11

Statements Against Terror

Kingdom's actions to combat financing of terrorism (SAMA)

His Majesty King Abdullah II

Muslims issue fatwa against bin Laden - World - Times Online

Condemnation of terrorism by Shaikh Al-Luheidan

Night Light: the fatwa

Grand Mufti Condemns Militants

Grand Mufti Tells Militants to Surrender

Grand Mufti urges moderation and right thinking

Grand Mufti and Others Denounce London Bombings

Grand Mufti denounces the killing of Egypt's envoy to Iraq

Saudis Stand United Against Terrorism

250 Talked Out of Terrorism

Makkah Imam Urges Muslims to Shun Terror

Grand Mufti condemns attack on U.S. consulate

Makkah Imam says "Nip Terror Groups in the Bud"

Public Urged to Inform on Terrorists - Grand Mufti

Haram Imams Denounce Terrorist Attacks

"Crush Terror Mercilessly" - Grand Mufti

Makkah Imam Equates Riyadh Bombing With Israeli Terror

"Don't Abuse the Concept of Jihaad"

Council of Senior Scholars Back Government Crackdown on Terrorists

Imaams of Makkah and Madeenah condemn "heinous crime"

Shaykh Saalih al-Fowzaan on the Riyadh Bombings



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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 27, 2009 10:10AM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Numbers..all religions ferment the hate you
> are experiencing. I am sure yoiu consider
> yourself a very devout religious person yourself.
> Me...I think if it would work...I'd ban all
> religions. But that wont work..religion attacks
> us at our core weakness...we dont want to die.
> But die we must..and that's that.
>

I am an athiest and I agree with doing away with all religion. We could start with the worst, Islam.

> My recommendation to you is to stop listening to
> the finatics on both sides. Strive for a secular
> society. Bring all gods prophets to the status of
> santa claus...or an action figure where we can all
> enjoy them and thus take away their siginificance.
>

I am striving for a secular society.

>
> Lumping all muslims..all christians...all jews
> into one group is potentially very dangerous...it
> is the same logic the allows hatred to ferment and
> to have whatever disfavored group at the time
> designated as sub-human.
>
I have stated here on several occasions, that I don't blame the individual muslim because he/she is simply uneducated and controlled by a larger, more menacing force. I have also never endorsed violence as a means to stop the spread or reduce the amount of muslims in the world.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: January 27, 2009 10:20AM

How would you enforce the "no religion" thing? If you know anything about the history of the world, religions thrive under persecution.

Sounds totally tolerant!

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 27, 2009 10:39AM

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> I guess I should remind you that Timothy McVeigh
> was a right-wing militant while we're talking
> about putting all people into one group or
> another.
>
> Luckily, not everyone sees things as absolute and
> monolithic, as you seem to by your comment.
> Otherwise, all republicans would be lumped in with
> the baby-killing McVeigh and would be condemned
> for the bombing of the Murrah building.
>

So, your comparing me, and anyone else that speaks their mind about Islam with Timothy McVeigh and that we're the ones the world should really be worried about?
Just STFU you dumbass!


> To say that there are no moderate muslims is like
> saying that all Catholics are terrorists because
> the IRA was an Irish Catholic group fighting
> against the protestant Irish and British rule.

The IRA was a political movement that was dressed up as a religious movement (same as Islam) and anyone who couldn't figure that out is a fool. In that respect, the IRA and Islam are one in the same, only Islam is on a GLOBAL scale.
BTW, it certainly didn't help the world view of either Catholics or Protestants and exposed both for the scam they are.

>
> Oh well. I think we should round up everyone who
> is any bit right of center as potential domestic
> terrorists since Timothy McVeigh was a right-wing
> terrorist.

Again, just STFU. You have know idea what your talking about.

>
> Do you only watch Fox News? Because maybe on that
> channel they don't report things like Salman
> Rushdie writing a book against radical islamists
> and being sentenced to death for it, or the
> clerics in London who speak out constantly against
> militant islamists, or the moderate islamic
> regimes like those in UAE or even at this point,
> Egypt.

I don't ever watch Fox news and as much as you'd like to think so, I'm not a Republican and did not vote for George Bush or John Mcain. Why don't you get off your high horse and realize that people can have different views than just those of a political party or a demographic area. You are everything you rail on about. You're a political party follower and can't see anything else to the sides.


> When people ask "Why don't Muslims speak out
> against terrorism", the answer is: They do. For
> whatever reason, our Western media isn't doing a
> very good job at covering it.

It does very little good for western media to show snippets of small time clerics denouncing terrorism over the internet or on CNBC. In most cases, they're preaching to the choir or just a bit of window dressing.
They need to be shown on Al Jazeera all over the Middle East confronting the other clerics face to face. YouTube is already banned in Pakistan and others will be following soon, so that's out.
What you fail to realize is media outlets are controlled by strict Islamic censors in the countries where the majority of the population is muslim.
You're stuck inside your wonderful western controlled media zone and can't seem to fathom that everyone in the world is not as rational and logical as you.

Quit worrying about right and left wing, democrats and republicans, white collar and rednecks and make up your own mind about shit.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: January 27, 2009 11:00AM

The lack of existence of religions would give me zero reason to reflect on and internally philosophize about the nature of the world and the possibilities of God. I also would look a lot more crazy without all those fanatics around.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: January 27, 2009 12:17PM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, your comparing me, and anyone else that speaks
> their mind about Islam with Timothy McVeigh and
> that we're the ones the world should really be
> worried about?
> Just STFU you dumbass!

No, I'm applying your logic to another situation so maybe you can see your line of thinking in a different light.

Islamist radicals attacked us on 9/11, therefore all muslims are terrorists.

A right-wing militant attacked us on 4/19/95, therefore all republicans are terrorists.

I'm not pulling a vince, here. I'm just holding up your logic in another context for you to compare. I'm not actually saying that republicans are terrorists. I'm replacing your demon with another group that, following your logic, can be demonized if everyone in the world thought the way you did.


>
> The IRA was a political movement that was dressed
> up as a religious movement (same as Islam) and
> anyone who couldn't figure that out is a fool. In
> that respect, the IRA and Islam are one in the
> same, only Islam is on a GLOBAL scale.
> BTW, it certainly didn't help the world view of
> either Catholics or Protestants and exposed both
> for the scam they are.

Sure, I agree that all organized religions are a scam. But that doesn't indict every person who believes in one or considers themselves to be a member of that religion.

But if all muslims are fanatical, how come all catholics aren't as well? I'm sure you can't honestly believe that all catholics are fanatical.

>
> >
> > Oh well. I think we should round up everyone
> who
> > is any bit right of center as potential
> domestic
> > terrorists since Timothy McVeigh was a
> right-wing
> > terrorist.
>
> Again, just STFU. You have know idea what your
> talking about.
>

I have know idea, but no, I do know what I'm talking about. That was sarcasm, because I thought maybe you had the open-mindedness to comprehend when someone was turning your statement around for you to reflect on. Obviously, by your reaction, you prove that you have a closed mind and a siege-mentality.


>
> I don't ever watch Fox news and as much as you'd
> like to think so, I'm not a Republican and did not
> vote for George Bush or John Mcain. Why don't you
> get off your high horse and realize that people
> can have different views than just those of a
> political party or a demographic area. You are
> everything you rail on about. You're a political
> party follower and can't see anything else to the
> sides.
>

Really? I'm a political party follower? I am the one who tells people to stop buying into the divide and conquer strategy of the two-party system. It just so happens that at this point in time, the extreme-right of the republican party is the group holding on tightest to the partisan ideological warfare model.

If you aren't a republican, then you are obsessed with islam out of a true fear of islam, not influenced by the incessant propoganda of the far-right? You're a refreshing change from the usual islamophobic types.


> It does very little good for western media to show
> snippets of small time clerics denouncing
> terrorism over the internet or on CNBC. In most
> cases, they're preaching to the choir or just a
> bit of window dressing.
> They need to be shown on Al Jazeera all over the
> Middle East confronting the other clerics face to
> face. YouTube is already banned in Pakistan and
> others will be following soon, so that's out.
> What you fail to realize is media outlets are
> controlled by strict Islamic censors in the
> countries where the majority of the population is
> muslim.
> You're stuck inside your wonderful western
> controlled media zone and can't seem to fathom
> that everyone in the world is not as rational and
> logical as you.
>

Every country controls information. Even in this country, our news follows a fairly rigid script. The only major difference here is that there are multiple centers of power or influence that compete to control the message.

Actually, more people in the world are rational and logical than are fanatical and filled with hate. For some reason, you've focused on the negativity of the few and associate it with the whole.

I work in a building that shares space with el-Alam and al-Arabiya. These networks, as well as al-Jazeera DO air these condemnations against terrorism, they broadcast talk shows that denounce al Qaeda. This stuff is being broadcast far and wide OUTSIDE the U.S. but not given much attention INSIDE the U.S.

Did you also know that these are satellite news companies? Each muslim regime has absolutely no control over the content since it is produced in a liberalized muslim country outside of each other regime's control and beamed down by satellite into every arab speaking home across North Africa and the Middle East. Not long ago, before the GWOT, most foreign policy experts in the U.S. were discussing how amazing and rapid the changes were being brought to arab speaking countries through the democratizing influence of al Jazeera and al Arabiya, how each regime was being forced to soften their totalitarian stance and open up and loosen the grip of the clerics and their regimes on the people.


> Quit worrying about right and left wing, democrats
> and republicans, white collar and rednecks and
> make up your own mind about shit.

I've been doing that for years. The problem is that the rest of the country is still locked in the right/left paradigm.

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Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 27, 2009 02:31PM

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Islamist radicals attacked us on 9/11, therefore
> all muslims are terrorists.

Do you think islamic terrorism started on 9/11? It was happening decades before that and there is no end in sight. Even if the USA leaves every islamic country today and never returns, it will continue.

> A right-wing militant attacked us on 4/19/95,
> therefore all republicans are terrorists.
>
> I'm not pulling a vince, here. I'm just holding
> up your logic in another context for you to
> compare. I'm not actually saying that republicans
> are terrorists. I'm replacing your demon with
> another group that, following your logic, can be
> demonized if everyone in the world thought the way
> you did.
>
But that's NOT my logic. I'm not demonizing anyone or anything. I just think the world should have the courage to question anything without fear of deadly or financial reprisal. This is becoming less and less possible as Islam's influence becomes more involved. Now, in the Netherlands I could be arrested just for criticizing aspects of Islamic fundamentalism. Yet muslim clerics can preach about cutting the heads off of non-muslims with impunity.

Again, I have NEVER advocated any form of violence against muslims. All I want is proper dialog and some explanations of why this "religion" is so misunderstood by so many and why they refuse to assimilate when choosing to move to western civilizations. I would ask these same questions to any group, religious or otherwise.
>

> Sure, I agree that all organized religions are a
> scam. But that doesn't indict every person who
> believes in one or considers themselves to be a
> member of that religion.
>
> But if all muslims are fanatical, how come all
> catholics aren't as well? I'm sure you can't
> honestly believe that all catholics are
> fanatical.

Thank you. This gets to the very heart of my issues with islam. Why is it so much more "misunderstood" than every other religion? My guess is it could be because of the many verses that instruct violence against non-muslims and because the average muslim is not open-minded or educated to interpret this as bullshit.
Several christians have the same problem, but most these days are well enough educated to call bullshit on the most violent sections of the old testament.
>

> I have know idea, but no, I do know what I'm
> talking about. That was sarcasm, because I
> thought maybe you had the open-mindedness to
> comprehend when someone was turning your statement
> around for you to reflect on. Obviously, by your
> reaction, you prove that you have a closed mind
> and a siege-mentality.
>

"Seige-mentality"? WTF is that? Does that mean that I just want to get in my military machine and lay seige to Islamic nations? Sigh. You and vince can't seem to get through your thick heads that neither I, Pat Condell, Richard Dawkins, Tomothy Hitchens or anyone else have ever attempted to incite violence against anyone and have never claimed to hate anyone. Personally, I have no racial hatred for anyone or any race, but it's my right (and everyone elses) as a human being to question or even disapprove of an ideology, albeit political, social or economic. In this case, it's both political and social.
>

> Really? I'm a political party follower? I am the
> one who tells people to stop buying into the
> divide and conquer strategy of the two-party
> system. It just so happens that at this point in
> time, the extreme-right of the republican party is
> the group holding on tightest to the partisan
> ideological warfare model.

That's fine. The far right nut jobs can have their opinion and you are free to criticize them without being thrown in jail. I criticize them too, but I NEVER stop taking their opinions into account. There may be one or two in there that make sense and I want to be open enough to consider it.
>

> If you aren't a republican, then you are obsessed
> with islam out of a true fear of islam, not
> influenced by the incessant propoganda of the
> far-right? You're a refreshing change from the
> usual islamophobic types.
>
I am NOT obsessed with Islam, though I have been following it since 1993 and the first WTT bombings. What I fear is losing my right to free speech and having a state within a state, like Great Britain has now and the Netherlands and other European countries will have soon. I fear that my friends or family could be blown to smithereens by one of the many "misunderstanding" muslims. Do we keep explaining it that way to the families of the innocent victims, or do we all sit down and try to figure out WTF is going wrong without the fear of death threats looming over the discussions?

>
>

> Every country controls information. Even in this
> country, our news follows a fairly rigid script.
> The only major difference here is that there are
> multiple centers of power or influence that
> compete to control the message.
>
> Actually, more people in the world are rational
> and logical than are fanatical and filled with
> hate. For some reason, you've focused on the
> negativity of the few and associate it with the
> whole.

A few? How many does it take to kill 3000 people in one day? Should we continue on our merry way and hope they just go away. That hasn't and won't work. Maybe try to kill them all? That hasn't and won't work either.

>
> I work in a building that shares space with
> el-Alam and al-Arabiya. These networks, as well
> as al-Jazeera DO air these condemnations against
> terrorism, they broadcast talk shows that denounce
> al Qaeda. This stuff is being broadcast far and
> wide OUTSIDE the U.S. but not given much attention
> INSIDE the U.S.

Al Qaeda is a pretty small group, but the leaders are strong and powerful in the Islamic world because they take the quran literally and walk the walk. Bin Laden actually chose to live in a cave because thats where Mohammed lived. They and the Taliban are hardcore and muslims around the world see them as heroes for standing up to the Russians and the USA. There are MANY so called moderate muslims that condemn them by day and support them by night.
>

> Did you also know that these are satellite news
> companies? Each muslim regime has absolutely no
> control over the content since it is produced in a
> liberalized muslim country outside of each other
> regime's control and beamed down by satellite into
> every arab speaking home across North Africa and
> the Middle East. Not long ago, before the GWOT,
> most foreign policy experts in the U.S. were
> discussing how amazing and rapid the changes were
> being brought to arab speaking countries through
> the democratizing influence of al Jazeera and al
> Arabiya, how each regime was being forced to
> soften their totalitarian stance and open up and
> loosen the grip of the clerics and their regimes
> on the people.
>
Yes I did know about satellite TV in the middle east. Unfortunately, for the people who actually can afford to receive sat TV are still deluged with Anti-western spin far more than anti-al-qaeda info.
>

All I'm saying is, we can't be afraid to speak about any issue, whether it's for or against something and doing so doesn't make it hate speak.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Creationism? It's more likely then you think
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: January 27, 2009 11:09PM

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dear Numbers..all religions ferment the hate
> you
> > are experiencing. I am sure yoiu consider
> > yourself a very devout religious person
> yourself.
> > Me...I think if it would work...I'd ban all
> > religions. But that wont work..religion
> attacks
> > us at our core weakness...we dont want to die.
> > But die we must..and that's that.
> >
>
> I am an athiest and I agree with doing away with
> all religion. We could start with the worst,
> Islam.


Well..you are a prejudiced atheist...all religions are equally dangerous..your respone to Islam is just an irrational fear based on your feeling that they are out to get you.

There is nothing inherently more evil in Islam then there is christianity. I am sure an equal amount of evil... deaths...intolerance have been released on this planet by christians then muslims. It's all a matter of timing and perspective as to ones attitude or reactionto all the hate generated by religions.

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