HomeFairfax General ForumArrest/Ticket SearchWiki newPictures/VideosChatArticlesLinksAbout
Off-Topic :  Fairfax Underground fairfax underground logo
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
"UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Hussein ()
Date: November 15, 2008 04:01PM

I hope all of the UAW and their mothers will burn in the bottom part of hell. The UAW is nothing more then a parasite about to bankrupt the very people they work for.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: November 15, 2008 04:56PM

UAW members are victims..not the perpetrators. The weakening of unionized/orgainized labor a serious problem which needs to be corrected under the Obama administration.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: November 15, 2008 05:59PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UAW members are victims..not the perpetrators.
> The weakening of unionized/orgainized labor a
> serious problem which needs to be corrected under
> the Obama administration.


Wrong as usual.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-06-22-gm-healthcare-usat_x.htm

Many foreign auto companies build in the US and spend fractions on the amount the big three spend on health care and benefits thanks to the UAW. The downfall of GM (and GM using plants in Mexico and Canada) is in no small part due to the UAW.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2008 06:02PM by Mofo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: November 15, 2008 07:43PM

It's amazing to me how in this country we honor the value of an unsoluable contract except one negotiated between management and organized labor. All of a sudden it is greedy workers fault when they dont agree to breaking a contracting to settle for lower wges and benifits. I say BULlSHIT! A union contract is just as unsoluable as a mortgage contract between a bank and a mortgagee.

Listen you idiots..it wasnt UAW workers who kept feeding us bigger and bigger cars. It wasnt the UAW who decided to withdraw from the electric car market. It was all stupid...greedy management.

And here's a more recent article (then the 2005 POS article you dug up)...

http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/16/09.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2008 07:51PM by Vince(1).

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Reston ()
Date: November 15, 2008 10:55PM

The UAW contract is one inch thick (kind of ridiculous). Besides what semi-skilled auto worker deserves $72 per hour ("hourly union workers at the Big 3 make on average 57.6% more in a year than a university professor with a Ph.D. Using figures from the automakers themselves, Dr. Perry tells us that a union worker at Ford makes $141,020/year including wages and benefits. A worker at General Motors makes $146,520/year and one at Chrysler earns $151,720/year. According to another report he cites, the average annual salary for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973").

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: crapcrap ()
Date: November 15, 2008 11:01PM

Reston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The UAW contract is one inch thick (kind of
> ridiculous). Besides what semi-skilled auto worker
> deserves $72 per hour ("hourly union workers at
> the Big 3 make on average 57.6% more in a year
> than a university professor with a Ph.D. Using
> figures from the automakers themselves, Dr. Perry
> tells us that a union worker at Ford makes
> $141,020/year including wages and benefits. A
> worker at General Motors makes $146,520/year and
> one at Chrysler earns $151,720/year. According to
> another report he cites, the average annual salary
> for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973").

So you're comparing salary + benefits of a UAW worker to that of just the salary of a college professor? That sounds fair. What's the per hour take home of the professor (do they really work 40hr/wk)? I'm not standing up for the UAW but let's make a fair comparison. Also, health care is expensive as crap. Try to buy it for yourself (COBRA is 300+/mo) so the "benefits" are a large portion of any package..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Reston ()
Date: November 15, 2008 11:07PM

What is more important, buying your next Hummer or getting a quality education?

Besides Toyota and Honda pay less and build better vehicles..................
("the average annual salary for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973, which happens to be close to the $96,000/year a Honda, Nissan or Toyota worker makes in the U.S.")

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: SRE ()
Date: November 16, 2008 12:50AM

Reston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is more important, buying your next Hummer or
> getting a quality education?
>

I don't "buy" my Hummers!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: November 16, 2008 09:20AM

The comparison between salaries is ridiculous and meaningless. My only point in all this discussion is that pointing the finger at the UAW as "the" cause for the automakers problems is wrong. They sat down with management and have negotiated a contract...they went back to the table and renegotiated that contract to a historical degree (taking on the health benefits obligations of the big 3). When faced with serious negotiations with management they have responded.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Date: November 16, 2008 10:26AM

I think we can all agree that the UAW has contributed to GM's problems. But so have GM's mismanagement.

When the Feds bailed out Chrysler during the Carter Administation, the Carter Administration actually forced Unions to make concessions. They also required Chrysler to make changes to the way they developed autos.

We need something similar. I don't think our economy can avoid a 10-year slump along the lines of what Japan experienced in the 90s if we let GM fail.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: November 16, 2008 02:06PM

Why cant the US car makers just buy a Toyota or Nissan, dissect it and find out what makes them work so good and put it into their own cars?

It doesn't matter if it's UAW or not, or if the government bails them out (again), they'll still make shitty cars that don't sell.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: November 16, 2008 03:11PM

Numbers Wrote:
>>dissect it and find out what makes them work so good and put it into their own cars?


For real. First car I ever bought on my own was a Chevy. That thing had so many problems I swear I'd never buy one again. I had no regrets sending my money overseas when I bought a foreign car last year. As a consumer, I have little trust in the quality of GM vehicles, and I think alot of folks feel the same way.

That is the problem.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: George Stevens ()
Date: November 16, 2008 03:55PM

Why don't the automakers just declare bankruptcy and tear up the contracts with the UAW. Then the automakers can redo the contracts with the UAW at much lower wages and benefits. If the UAW doesn't want to do this then let their members learn the phrase 'you want fries with that?'.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: alright ()
Date: November 16, 2008 04:01PM

Can't believe all the hate against the UAW. I don't know all the numbers (nor do I trust all the posting of numbers here) but it seems to me that the large problem was that auto industry had a fundamental flaw in their management. They seemed to be flying high for several years with the large SUV's but failed to see the writing on the wall wrt economical cars (forget gas but how about when we hit the cyclic downtrend of the economy?) and failed to make the investment.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Date: November 16, 2008 07:29PM

In the late 80s, the Big Three went to DC to complain about the Japanese not allowing their cars to compete in Japan. The Japanese were having issues with American cars because of safety concerns. The concern? Japanese cars have the steering wheel on the right-hand side of the car because the Japanese drive in the left lane. Detroit simply refused to ship cars to Japan with steering wheels on the right-hand side and then went to DC to complain about it.

THAT is an example of the management philosophy in Detroit.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: November 17, 2008 08:57AM

alright Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't believe all the hate against the UAW. I
> don't know all the numbers (nor do I trust all the
> posting of numbers here) but it seems to me that
> the large problem was that auto industry had a
> fundamental flaw in their management. They seemed
> to be flying high for several years with the large
> SUV's but failed to see the writing on the wall
> wrt economical cars (forget gas but how about when
> we hit the cyclic downtrend of the economy?) and
> failed to make the investment.

If you havent noticed the general theme for 90% of the posts on FU is to ridicule and disparage those you believe are on a lower economic scale then you! They wrap their hate around such abstract concepts as patriotism and fairness...but it really is nothing more then small minded hatred.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Hussein ()
Date: November 17, 2008 10:09AM

Great article by Cal Thomas.

Remember when Democrats lamented the growing budget deficit and spoke of the burden our children and grandchildren would face if we didn’t put our fiscal house in order? That was when Republicans ran the federal government and Democrats opposed tax cuts. Now that Democrats are about to be in charge, concern about the deficit has disappeared and spending plans proliferate, even though the national debt passed $10 trillion in September and we added another $500 billion last month.

The latest, but by no means the last supplicant at the public trough, is the auto industry, which wants a bailout to save jobs because its cars are not selling. There is a reason for that and it can be summed up in five words: The United Auto Workers Union (UAW).

Half of the $50 billion the auto industry wants is for health care for its current and retired employees. This is the result of increasing UAW demands, strikes and threats of strikes unless health care and pension benefits were regularly increased. While in the past UAW settled for some benefit decreases while bargaining with the Big Three U.S. automakers, according to the Wall Street Journal in September of 2006, “on average, GM pays $81.18 an hour in wages and benefits to its U.S. hourly workers.” Those increased costs, including the cost of health care, were passed along to consumers, adding $1,600 to the price of every vehicle GM produced. In February 2008, after General Motors offered buyouts to 74,000 employees, the Center for Automotive Research estimated the average wage, including benefits, for current GM workers had dropped to $78.21 an hour. New hires pulled down a paltry $26.65. GM, now facing a head-on collision with reality, has taken an important first step toward fiscal responsibility by announcing the elimination of lifetime health care benefits for about 100,000 of its white-collar retirees at the end of this year.Contrast this with non-union Toyota, whose total hourly U.S. labor costs, with benefits, are $35 per hour. Those lower labor costs mean Toyota enjoys a cost advantage over U.S. automakers of about $1,000 per vehicle. Is it any wonder that Toyota is outselling American automakers and from plants that have been built on U.S. soil? According to James Sherk of The Heritage Foundation, Japanese car companies provide their employees with good jobs at good wages: “The typical hourly employee at a Toyota, Honda or Nissan plant in America makes almost $100,000 a year in wages and benefits, before overtime.”

While many in the Democratic Party have focused on “corporate greed” and “fairness,” according to Sherk, “competition, not corporate greed, is the real problem facing labor unions. When unions negotiate raises for their members, companies pass those higher costs on to consumers.” Americans used to tolerate those increases, but no more. Competition has brought lower prices for Japanese cars and Americans are buying more of them, taking a pass on those manufactured in Detroit.

The argument made by those favoring a bailout of Detroit is that it will save more than 100,000 jobs in the auto and related industries. But what good does that do if people are not buying cars in sufficient numbers to allow the Big Three to make a profit? This becomes the kind of corporate welfare Democrats decry when it comes to Wall Street. But, then, Wall Street isn’t unionized and Democrats want and need the union vote.

What about Chrysler’s bailout 30 years ago? It was a loan. Didn’t Chrysler pay back the government? Wasn’t it worth the risk to save jobs? According to the Heritage Foundation, the $1.2 billion in loan guarantees made by the Carter administration still resulted in a partial bankruptcy for Chrysler. “Most of the company’s creditors were forced to accept losses just as they would if Chrysler had gone through Chapter 11, and the company ended up firing almost half its workforce, including 20,000 white-collar workers and 42,600 hourly wage earners. The only people who benefited from the bailout were Chrysler shareholders.”

The Heritage Foundation also notes, “If Washington really wants to help Detroit, they could end the regulatory nightmare that prevents profitable, fuel-efficient cars from reaching market.” Ford, they say, has begun selling a car that gets 65 mpg, but they’re not selling it in America. Why? Because it runs on diesel fuel “and environmentalists in the U.S. have fought to keep diesel taxes high and refinery capacity low.”

More government intervention in private industry will bring us closer to socialism. Better to renegotiate the labor contracts, re-train workers for other jobs, or help them get hired at the Japanese auto plants in America than to subsidize a failed economic model for the sake of political gain.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: November 17, 2008 11:58AM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you havent noticed the general theme for 90% of
> the posts on FU is to ridicule and disparage those
> you believe are on a lower economic scale then
> you! They wrap their hate around such abstract
> concepts as patriotism and fairness...but it
> really is nothing more then small minded hatred.



file.php?40,file=2868
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: November 17, 2008 04:55PM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you havent noticed the general theme for 90%
> of
> > the posts on FU is to ridicule and disparage
> those
> > you believe are on a lower economic scale then
> > you! They wrap their hate around such abstract
> > concepts as patriotism and fairness...but it
> > really is nothing more then small minded
> hatred.
>
>
>

What a perfect example of the typical FU poster...I couldnt have asked for you to crawl out of your pile of crap at a better time!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: November 17, 2008 07:44PM

.
Attachments:
128714427136443731.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: The AutoTruth ()
Date: November 25, 2008 08:55PM

"Why cant the US car makers just buy a Toyota or Nissan, dissect it and find out what makes them work so good and put it into their own cars?

It doesn't matter if it's UAW or not, or if the government bails them out (again), they'll still make shitty cars that don't sell."

and

"For real. First car I ever bought on my own was a Chevy. That thing had so many problems I swear I'd never buy one again. I had no regrets sending my money overseas when I bought a foreign car last year. As a consumer, I have little trust in the quality of GM vehicles, and I think alot of folks feel the same way."

You're both complete morons who know nothing about cars. Unfortunately, most American consumers (like yourselves) are uneducated about ANY product they ever buy, instead relying on hearsay to form their buying decision.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: "UAW Workers will make no more concessions"
Posted by: The Unsilent Majority ()
Date: November 27, 2008 10:23PM

The greedy UAW is the worst thing to happen to America EVER. They suck, just like Vince's posts. You can tell he's pro-union with all thr choice union-propaganda-ish dialouge...."management", "organized labor".....more like uneducated labor!! Dousche!!

Options: ReplyQuote


Your Name: 
Your Email (Optional): 
Subject: 
Attach a file
  • No file can be larger than 75 MB
  • All files together cannot be larger than 300 MB
  • 30 more file(s) can be attached to this message
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
xWyLE
This forum powered by Phorum.