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Biden
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: October 26, 2008 10:42PM

I must say that I think less of Joe Biden now then when he was first nominated. Needless to say not enough to sway my vote or very high hopes for election day. But when Barack has to hold a press conference to explain his "testing" comments, that just isnt what I expect from a VP. When Biden is the topic of the SNL opening skit...well it just isnt right.

Regarding the comment..it does make me wonder what is behind it. I certainly dont think our enemies have an Obama vice McSame strategy...to test one and not the other. If they do they certainly are under a misconception of how our government works. The rumor I have heard is that the "test" will be an Iranian preemptive strike against Israel. The implication by Biden is that Obama's response will "surprise" us and that his supporters need to "trust" him. So what would be the "surprise" Obama reaction? A measured response....no response....an overwhelming response? The first certainly wouldnt be a "surprise"...Obama seems very deliberate. I dont think an Obama presidency could survive not responding...so that leaves only an overwhelming response. We certainly cant afford to use a conventional troop response...so what options does that leave us? Im afraid to think about it. I also think McSame would use pretty much the same response.

I also dont think our enemies will wait until until the transfer of power to "test" us. The best time to test us would be sometime between the day after election day and Jan 20th....when the chains of command may be complictaed by the election results when the country's leagl and moral authorities might not be one in the same and the two might not agree on an appropriate response.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2008 10:47PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Biden
Posted by: riptorn ()
Date: October 26, 2008 10:47PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must say that I think less of Joe Biden now then
> when he was first nominated. Needless to say not
> enough to sway my vote or very high hopes for
> election day. But when Barack has to hold a press
> conference to explain his "testing" comments, that
> just isnt what I expect from a VP. When Biden is
> the topic of the SNL opening skit...well it just
> isnt right.
>

I tend to agree with you. I'm amazed at the lack of talent at this level.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Rod ()
Date: October 27, 2008 07:37AM

What if the Obama campaign had treated Biden like Palin was treated and sent him to be interviewed by such as Rush Limbah, Hanity?

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Re: Biden
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: October 27, 2008 08:05AM

Rod Wrote:
>>> What if the Obama campaign had treated Biden like Palin was treated and sent him to be interviewed by such as Rush Limbah, Hanity?


Well, it's sort of odd to compare the innocuous Katie Couric to a bunch of obnoxious tools like Limbaugh or Hannity, but I'm sure Biden would've been able to answer questions about the newspapers he reads, or how Alaska's border with Russia and Canada translated to foreign policy experience.

Palin wasn't treated unfairly, she just completely flubbed some pretty simple questions.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: October 27, 2008 09:16AM

oh Biden could handle the right wing idiots just fine...it's when he thinks he's amongst friends that worries me

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Re: Biden
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: October 27, 2008 10:24AM

I think an Iranian pre-emptive strike on Israel would draw more than just America into the fray.

You're implying that the "overwhelming response" would be a nuclear one, but America's policy is (currently) one of retaliation; we wouldn't fire our nukes unless Iran fired nukes at Israel. It's also generally assumed that Israel has their own nuclear arsenal despite (or because of) their policy of ambiguity.

Then there's the UN, who would also have something to say about the matter...

I'd be more inclined to think that the "test" would come from someone like Chavez.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Jenny L ()
Date: October 27, 2008 10:29AM

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think an Iranian pre-emptive strike on Israel
> would draw more than just America into the fray.
>

The scary part of that comment is that McCain, until two months ago, was suggesting more miltary action against Iran.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: October 27, 2008 02:41PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh Biden could handle the right wing idiots just
> fine...it's when he thinks he's amongst friends
> that worries me

Seriously Vince - the fact that you could say this speaks volumes on how scary Biden is to Obama folks.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: October 27, 2008 03:27PM

Media Bias by Michael Malone.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=6099188&page=1

This is a pretty salient point (starting on page 2):
Quote

...
But what really shattered my faith -- and I know the day and place where it happened -- was the war in Lebanon three summers ago. The hotel I was staying at in Windhoek, Namibia, only carried CNN, a network I'd already learned to approach with skepticism. But this was CNN International, which is even worse.

I sat there, first with my jaw hanging down, then actually shouting at the TV, as one field reporter after another reported the carnage of the Israeli attacks on Beirut, with almost no corresponding coverage of the Hezbollah missiles raining down on northern Israel. The reporting was so utterly and shamelessly biased that I sat there for hours watching, assuming that eventually CNNi would get around to telling the rest of the story … but it never happened.

But nothing, nothing I've seen has matched the media bias on display in the current presidential campaign.

Republicans are justifiably foaming at the mouth over the sheer one-sidedness of the press coverage of the two candidates and their running mates. But in the last few days, even Democrats, who have been gloating over the pass -- no, make that shameless support -- they've gotten from the press, are starting to get uncomfortable as they realize that no one wins in the long run when we don't have a free and fair press.

I was one of the first people in the traditional media to call for the firing of Dan Rather -- not because of his phony story, but because he refused to admit his mistake -- but, bless him, even Gunga Dan thinks the media is one-sided in this election.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those people who think the media has been too hard on, say, Republican vice presidential nominee Gov. Sarah Palin, by rushing reportorial SWAT teams to her home state of Alaska to rifle through her garbage. This is the big leagues, and if she wants to suit up and take the field, then Gov. Palin better be ready to play.

The few instances where I think the press has gone too far -- such as the Times reporter talking to prospective first lady Cindy McCain's daughter's MySpace friends -- can easily be solved with a few newsroom smackdowns and temporary repostings to the Omaha bureau.

No, what I object to (and I think most other Americans do as well) is the lack of equivalent hardball coverage of the other side -- or worse, actively serving as attack dogs for the presidential ticket of Sens. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and Joe Biden, D-Del.

If the current polls are correct, we are about to elect as president of the United States a man who is essentially a cipher, who has left almost no paper trail, seems to have few friends (that at least will talk) and has entire years missing out of his biography.

That isn't Sen. Obama's fault: His job is to put his best face forward. No, it is the traditional media's fault, for it alone (unlike the alternative media) has had the resources to cover this story properly, and has systematically refused to do so.

Why, for example to quote the lawyer for Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., haven't we seen an interview with Sen. Obama's grad school drug dealer -- when we know all about Mrs. McCain's addiction? Are Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko that hard to interview? All those phony voter registrations that hard to scrutinize? And why are Sen. Biden's endless gaffes almost always covered up, or rationalized, by the traditional media?
...

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: October 27, 2008 04:45PM

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think an Iranian pre-emptive strike on Israel
> would draw more than just America into the fray.
>
>
> You're implying that the "overwhelming response"
> would be a nuclear one, but America's policy is
> (currently) one of retaliation; we wouldn't fire
> our nukes unless Iran fired nukes at Israel. It's
> also generally assumed that Israel has their own
> nuclear arsenal despite (or because of) their
> policy of ambiguity.
>
> Then there's the UN, who would also have something
> to say about the matter...
>
> I'd be more inclined to think that the "test"
> would come from someone like Chavez.


What the hell could Chavez do besides cut off his oil and his own nose at the same time?

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: October 27, 2008 04:56PM

Chavez is looking to dominate his neighborhood - so to speak. With the potential loss in oil revenues coming, it may be beneficial for him to start a war with a neighbor to quell rising unrest in his country when he can no longer support his stupid policies with surplus oil revenues.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: October 27, 2008 04:57PM

Listen RV..the intent of me commenting was not to give you the stump to whine about MSM bias...republikans have won their fair share of presidencies in the last 20 years to prove that the MSM isnt as powerful as loosing republikans seem to think.

Biden isnt an idiot...he may be a gaffe machine but he isnt an idiot...Palin is both! If you had any sense of balance in you you'd admit that...she is at least half the reason McSame does not appear to be winning the poll races.

If the leaders of this country know of some impending foreign action that either McSame or Obama might have to face right away (the idea that the mere election of McSame would eliminate the threat is riduculous)..we ought to be told about it. What Im afraid this involves is an attack on Israel by Iran..and their use of nuclear power. I want someoen to do something about this threat now...and not wait!

If Biden was just speaking thru his hat..his punishment ought to be being interviewed by every right wing hack reporter like he had to in Orlando...and would be on O'Reilly...Rush...Fox news. That'll teach him to be a little more discreet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 04:57PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: October 27, 2008 05:01PM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chavez is looking to dominate his neighborhood -
> so to speak. With the potential loss in oil
> revenues coming, it may be beneficial for him to
> start a war with a neighbor to quell rising unrest
> in his country when he can no longer support his
> stupid policies with surplus oil revenues.


Well I guess he could do that...but what in that scenario is such a "threatening" test of Obama/McSame? I doubt we would engage troops there. Who in that part of the world is so threatening/important to American interests?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 05:01PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Registered Voter ()
Date: October 27, 2008 05:07PM

We actively support Colombia - it is likely that would be his target. If so it would be a problem, and if Obama was in office he would have to go in and help. I am sure that would not sit well with folks like you - thus Biden's comments on folks not liking what they would have to do.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: October 27, 2008 07:10PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think an Iranian pre-emptive strike on Israel
> > would draw more than just America into the fray.
>
> >
> >
> > You're implying that the "overwhelming
> response"
> > would be a nuclear one, but America's policy is
> > (currently) one of retaliation; we wouldn't
> fire
> > our nukes unless Iran fired nukes at Israel.
> It's
> > also generally assumed that Israel has their
> own
> > nuclear arsenal despite (or because of) their
> > policy of ambiguity.
> >
> > Then there's the UN, who would also have
> something
> > to say about the matter...
> >
> > I'd be more inclined to think that the "test"
> > would come from someone like Chavez.
>
>
> What the hell could Chavez do besides cut off his
> oil and his own nose at the same time?

He's also trying to be bestest buddies with Iran, and has to know by now how prone Americans are to freaking out about things like gas prices in the midst of a shaky economy. A little economic leverage here, some fiery rhetoric there, and he could easily put himself into the position where a young, "inexperienced" president has to make decisive action.

America has spent the last 8 years hitting everyone we don't like with a big stick (for better or for worse), and Obama's already expressed willingness to sit down with people like Chavez and Ama... Ahmen... the president of Iran. It would be a good opportunity to either discredit his desire to move away from Bush's foreign policy, or get concessions from America in the spirit of "diplomacy."

Ahmadinejad is Spunky insane, but knows that throwing nukes at Israel would bring incredibly serious repercussions to his country.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: October 27, 2008 08:47PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must say that I think less of Joe Biden now then
> when he was first nominated. Needless to say not
> enough to sway my vote or very high hopes for
> election day. But when Barack has to hold a press
> conference to explain his "testing" comments, that
> just isnt what I expect from a VP.

One of Gov Palins and Sen McCain's talking points is that Obama has not held a press conference "in over a month"".

So you say he held a press conference after Biden said that statement. . McCain/Palin says he has not. Why are you calling our fearless and patriotic Americans liars? I should send Palin over to your house to skin you or at least have your kid impregnate one of hers. Maybe then you will stay on message.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: October 27, 2008 09:25PM

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We actively support Colombia - it is likely that
> would be his target. If so it would be a problem,
> and if Obama was in office he would have to go in
> and help. I am sure that would not sit well with
> folks like you - thus Biden's comments on folks
> not liking what they would have to do.


true..I wouldnt waste a single american soldier on columbia

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Re: Biden
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: October 27, 2008 09:34PM

Actually the "test" often comes a day or two before the election. Teh evildoers did that in Spain by blowing shit up to scare people into voting one way.

As for Chavez, refusing to sell oil to the US is dumb. The crude that comes out of Venezuela is crap and the US is pretty much the only place that can refine it and still turn a profit after the process. No one else wants Venezuelan crude.

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Re: Biden
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: October 27, 2008 09:45PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually the "test" often comes a day or two
> before the election. Teh evildoers did that in
> Spain by blowing shit up to scare people into
> voting one way.
>
> As for Chavez, refusing to sell oil to the US is
> dumb. The crude that comes out of Venezuela is
> crap and the US is pretty much the only place that
> can refine it and still turn a profit after the
> process. No one else wants Venezuelan crude.

Chavez doesn't strike me as the brightest crayon in the box. He is cunning to a certain extent, though. The average American has no idea how oil becomes SUV juice, and this country will believe anything they hear on the news. Scare the Great Unwashed, and the President has to act or lose credibility.

If Obama wins, I won't envy him at all. Hopefully, nothing happens, and we enter into the golden age of peace and prosperity he's pitching. I doubt it, though.

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