According to the WSJ:

http://www.wsj.com/article/SB121910303529751345.html?mod=most_emailed_day#

So umm... whats the incentive of working if Obama becomes prez (knock on wood)? Lets see.. if you penalize successful working people by taxing them more and reward the lazy people by giving them freebies, then what will be the incentive to work harder? We will become a society of welfare cases. Why work when the government will take care of you? Race ya to the welfare line!

It's always smart to consider people making less than 250K per year as the lazy, "welfare classes". There's an idea that will fly. I'm sure everyone with "an incentive to work" will be disenfranchised by lower taxes. That makes sense.

we will be in China back 40 yrs ago.

MmmTurnipz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the WSJ:
>
> http://www.wsj.com/article/SB121910303529751345.ht
> ml?mod=most_emailed_day#
>
> So umm... whats the incentive of working if Obama
> becomes prez (knock on wood)? Lets see.. if you
> penalize successful working people by taxing them
> more and reward the lazy people by giving them
> freebies, then what will be the incentive to work
> harder? We will become a society of welfare cases.
> Why work when the government will take care of
> you? Race ya to the welfare line!

I guess you didn't actually READ the article. You are an ignoramus, quit responding to my posts unless you have something constructive to say. Why punish ppl making over 250k anyway? They are the ones spending money which helps the economy. Anyone can make as much money as they want if they put their minds to it. That's the great thing about this country. As an immigrant who had the fortune to flee a communist country, I can truly attest to achieving the American dream buy working hard, and I am bothered by the socialists (obama) who are trying to rid future generations of their own American dreams. You sir, were probably born here and only speak one language and have never traveled to lesser fortunate places. You are a big whiner! Be grateful with what you have, and always strive to do better.

MmmTurnipz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess you didn't actually READ the article. You
> are an ignoramus, quit responding to my posts
> unless you have something constructive to say. Why
> punish ppl making over 250k anyway? They are the
> ones spending money which helps the economy.
> Anyone can make as much money as they want if they
> put their minds to it. That's the great thing
> about this country. As an immigrant who had the
> fortune to flee a communist country, I can truly
> attest to achieving the American dream buy working
> hard, and I am bothered by the socialists (obama)
> who are trying to rid future generations of their
> own American dreams. You sir, were probably born
> here and only speak one language and have never
> traveled to lesser fortunate places. You are a big
> whiner! Be grateful with what you have, and always
> strive to do better.


This is a typical argument from the right, however 8 yrs of trickle down economics and look where we're at (4T more debt from 1/2T surplus during the Clintons). No need to even have to learn from the past on this one; just look to the present. However, it looks like you're too dumb to even recognize that.

MmmTurnipz Wrote:
>>> As an immigrant who had the fortune to flee a communist country, I can truly attest to achieving the American dream


Forum newbies, polishing their e-resumes.

Your comment makes no sense. Whats your background? Did it involve a trailer?

Doofus-
Nat'l debt was 6 tril under clinton. I won't steep to your level and attempt to insult your lack of intellect.

MmmTurnipz Wrote:
>>>> Your comment makes no sense. Whats your background? Did it involve a Trailer?


Forum newbies, who've fled communism, achieving the American Dream.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2008 10:39PM by TheMeeper.

MmmTurnipz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the WSJ:
>
> http://www.wsj.com/article/SB121910303529751345.ht
> ml?mod=most_emailed_day#
>
> So umm... whats the incentive of working if Obama
> becomes prez (knock on wood)? Lets see.. if you
> penalize successful working people by taxing them
> more and reward the lazy people by giving them
> freebies, then what will be the incentive to work
> harder? We will become a society of welfare cases.
> Why work when the government will take care of
> you? Race ya to the welfare line!

When Sarah Palin essentially did the same thing for everyone in Alaska, the Republicans called her "A Maverick."

MmmTurnipz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doofus-
> Nat'l debt was 6 tril under clinton. I won't steep
> to your level and attempt to insult your lack of
> intellect.


Here's an interesting chart. Please make a note under which Presidents the debt grew at the fastest rate...

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

...Hint: They are all Republicans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2008 10:46PM by WashingToneLocian.

MmmTurnipz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doofus-
> Nat'l debt was 6 tril under clinton. I won't steep
> to your level and attempt to insult your lack of
> intellect.


And it is 10T under GW thus 4T more. See how math works?

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's an interesting chart. Please make a note
> under which Presidents the debt grew at the
> fastest rate...
>
> http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
>
> ...Hint: They are all Republicans.


Words fail me. Thanks for the link!

Some of the hardest working people I know make less money then some of our millionaires. What value does Donald Trump or a basketball player add to society compared to a teacher? So...as always we love kicking the little guy...those less fortunate then ourselves...while praising those luckier then us...very odd for such a kristian country...but then not really..the meanest people in the world are usually the most religious!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2008 09:18AM by Vince(1).

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here's an interesting chart. Please make a note
> under which Presidents the debt grew at the
> fastest rate...
>
> http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
>
> ...Hint: They are all Republicans.


Great chart.

Dems: "Tax & Spend"
Rep: "Spend"

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the hardest working people I know make
> less money then some of our millionaires. What
> value does Donald Trump or a basketball player add
> to society compared to a teacher? So...as always
> we love kicking the little guy...those less
> fortunate then ourselves...while praising those
> luckier then us...very odd for such a kristian
> country...but then not really..the meanest people
> in the world are usually the most religious!


"Christians are the only people I know of who continue eating their dead." Pat Boone

And you look at the very bottom of the article and you find this chart, and you see the reality - it has nothing to do with the President in charge as to how Congress decides to spend money. The article has an obvious characterization of neo-cons controlling Republicans, thus the increase in spending. It does note the Reagan years - note the fact that Reaganomics never failed - the failure was Congress being willing to pass tax cuts, but not passing the spending reductions he also proposed. The main thing this chart, and this article, fail to represent, is the amount of compromising and additions the Congress throws into bills to get them passed. This bailout bill they finally passed today is the ultimate example of how most bills get passed in Congress - adding in spending that other people want to make them swallow the rest of the spending that they do not.
Attachments:

This chart doesn't show the velocity of the increase in debt. Every president increased debt, just that under the (R) it increased a hell of a lot more. The Bush II regime had NO excuse given that they controlled everything through most of his tenue.

No, 9/11 on top of a recession coming in at the end of Clinton's 8 years had nothing to do with it at all. I was one of the people affected by 9/11 and had little work for almost 2 years. My salary took a huge reduction, and is still much lower than before 9/11 - that was not Bush's fault - the industry I work in had a huge reduction in jobs. I blame 9/11 for the huge deficits we see today.

Reagan proposed tax cuts with spending cuts. I am still waiting for the spending cuts - Congress and the Federal government does not know how to stop spending. They act much like the CEO and Board of major corporations, except they can print more money when they don't have enough to spend. That happens on both sides of the aisle.

Explain to me why 9/11 caused us to go 4T more into debt?

As I pointed out, many Americans lost their job leading up to 9/11, and then 9/11 extended those job losses out even further. Congress passed at least 2 unemployment extensions during the period following 9/11, so lets just start there.

Businesses folded up, folks were not working, thus the tax income dropped a huge amount. If I remember that Christmas was one of the worst on record as far as consumer spending. They passed additional tax cuts for the recession (part of the Bush tax cuts), and then additional spending to try and stimulate the economy.

As one of the many people not able to find work during that time, I eventually had to take a job paying about 2/5ths of what my last job paid. Eventually I worked my way back up and now I am at about 3/4 of what I was making before 9/11. I am not the only person this has happened to. Just talking to folks at my high school reunion about a year later, many of them had similar issues. One guy lost his house, pretty much everything and ended up as a waiter at Bennigans - he had owned his own company. So we had significant salary losses, severely reduced tax income from tax payers as well as businesses - for much of the first 4 years of Bush in office.

In the meantime, Congress continued to pass spending increases - and we are not even talking military spending. Much of this had to do with the usual way business is done - scratch my back to scratch yours. The legislation has just boomed out of control with additional spending. So yes, I blame 9/11 as a catalyst, and the rest of it falls on Congress - both houses, both sides of the aisle. Bush was the stamp at the end - the fact that he did not choose to veto much of anything didn't help, but he does not write legislation, Congress does. Add the war in Iraq on top of that (about a third of the yearly deficit) and you will see the war may have added 1T over the last few years - want to explain where the other 3T to 4T came from?

You think with the current housing crisis we are going to change that in the next 4 years even if Obama gets elected? Pipe dreams.

Well..if it all goes back to 9/11 I guess that means the terrorists won after all!

Personally I dont buy how you consistently clear the republikan white house of major responsibilities for the economy..and it really goes back to the reagan white house where the voo-doo economics of trickle down tax cuts started...and continued full throttle under all republikan administrations. The basic formula of cutting taxes...assuming growth will generate needed taxes...and that deficits no longer matter is a failure. We all knew that sooner or later the price for the voo-doo economics professed by every republikan administration would have to be paid some day. And today is that some day!

The scarey part of course is that McSame will continue this insane policy cutting taxes for the rich...a never ending war in Iraq...and a misdirection effort to "cut" earmarks!

Donald Trump created tons of jobs for people. You call that less value than a teacher?


Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the hardest working people I know make
> less money then some of our millionaires. What
> value does Donald Trump or a basketball player add
> to society compared to a teacher? So...as always
> we love kicking the little guy...those less
> fortunate then ourselves...while praising those
> luckier then us...very odd for such a kristian
> country...but then not really..the meanest people
> in the world are usually the most religious!

You missed the primer on "voodoo economics" it also included spending CUTS. Those were never passed by the Democrats, even though they were more than willing to pass tax cuts. You can't decrease taxes and increase spending and really expect that to work right?

The Reagan plan was actually quite sound - the problem is that Congress doesn't know how to reign in spending. Both sides.

Gee.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Donald Trump created tons of jobs for people. You
> call that less value than a teacher?
>
>
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some of the hardest working people I know make
> > less money then some of our millionaires. What
> > value does Donald Trump or a basketball player
> add
> > to society compared to a teacher? So...as
> always
> > we love kicking the little guy...those less
> > fortunate then ourselves...while praising those
> > luckier then us...very odd for such a kristian
> > country...but then not really..the meanest
> people
> > in the world are usually the most religious!


Donald Trump is a fraud...he's destroyed more jobs then he ever created!

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You missed the primer on "voodoo economics" it
> also included spending CUTS. Those were never
> passed by the Democrats, even though they were
> more than willing to pass tax cuts. You can't
> decrease taxes and increase spending and really
> expect that to work right?
>
> The Reagan plan was actually quite sound - the
> problem is that Congress doesn't know how to reign
> in spending. Both sides.

Give me a break...during his administration deficits tripled. He knew Congress wouldnt/couldnt decrease spending and he failed to respond accordingly..he just continued with his agenda regardless of reality...or it's consequences...choosing to just blame congress for failure to cut, cut , cut when it was obvious the amerikan public was not interested in his agenda.

In fact Id say he didnt even care...its been a long held republikan strategy to drain the country of revenue..to get us to the point where all we'll be able to expend money on is defense...they'd be more then happy with that scenario..and they have come dangerously close to accomplishing this.

(1) Federal Spending - Real annual federal spending has more than tripled since 1965 and has nearly doubled since 1980. Total Federal Spending, in Billions,1965–2008

(2) Defense Spending as % of GDP

(3) Spending per person - Average Federal Revenue per Household, by Administration

(4) Discretionary Spending, Defense vs Non-Defense

(5) Breakdown of spending in the budget

Just some interesting facts

---------------
Attachments:

ever hear the saying figures dont lies..but liars figure? I'll bet there are all sorts of categories of spending excluded..and included conveniently to make your point!

The fact you have these fancy charts so handy to "prove" your point is proof enough that they are republikan manufactured propaganda. No one with a brain believes your president any longer...no one believes your republikan party any longer...no one believes you!

The fact is that since ronald reagan republicans have been on a tax cutting spree...while ignoring increasing deficits! As I explained above..republikans are happy with the strategy to bankrupt us all...as long as they dont get the blame! were democrats complicit in some of this..you bet! It's time for democrats to be the true opposing party and stop cowering to republikan bullying and propaganda. If you think you can live in a country where the only thing we can afford is to fund defense..god help you! That ladies and gentlemen is a formula for the most brutal of societies! One where no one is safe from the effects of poverty and loss of hope.

Right. As opposed to the country that is taken over by the Communists and no one has a free thought any more. Or perhaps the world of radical Islam where women are chattel and you get to worship all day, every day. And Vince, sorry you can't equate Republicans to either of those.

Seriously Vince, you never answered my question earlier - you like Sarah Palin don't you? :) I mean she is very nice looking and all....

I like your wife better!

The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.
But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, Suskind writes that O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

“Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand,” says Suskind. “He says, ‘You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.’ … O'Neill is speechless.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml