Re: America is being brutally raped in the "bailout"
Date: September 29, 2008 12:33AM
WashingToneLocian Wrote:
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> spunky2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Banks are still lending and credit applications
> > are still flooding through the mail system.
> Wall
> > street is still afloat, imagine that?
> >
>
> This crisis started in earnest last week. Do you
> really think credit applications would stop in one
> week? As for banks lending money, that is actually
> not the case. Many businesses that rely on lines
> of credit are finding that they can't access funds
> to make payroll. You will start seeing that in
> news reports come this week on payday.
>
What's your source? There are so many other options, none of which of been explored. Throwing money at the problem will not fix it, just postpone the problem, which will only get worse and cost more.
> > I believe Paulson said, it was a crisis which
> > needed to be addressed last week, and we are
> still
> > above water, that should tell us something.
>
> It tells us that the markets see Congress working
> on the problem. If the bailout fails, the markets
> will lock-up completely.
You know this because, you have been told this by the mkt in an attempt to frighten people into giving Wall street their desired results. We have spent years seeing profits increase on Wall street free enterprise must allow for market corrections without outside interference. But these corp. have rich CEOs, who have grown accustomed to their wealth and don't want to play by the rules, so they yell CRISIS, and enough of them together get the attention of the US Treasury and that JERK in the White House. It's no different really then Joe blow complaining about his sub-prime loan but since he has no money and no one in power in this country cares about poor people, no one cares. Poor people are expendable, you don't see rich people fighting in Iraq or Afganisitan. Granted it would be difficult for the market to correct itself but for less then what is being asked of us and our children now, and those who created this mess would be the ones paying, for sure.
> > Each
> > time Bush wants something, We the people
> > shouldn't. The element of fear is being
> > manipulated to produce the desired results, as
> > with previous circumstances which hooked us.
>
> I realize Bush plays on people's fears. However,
> Bush has not orchestrated the failures of Lehman,
> AIG, WaMu and, from the sounds of it, Wachovia.
> You can deny there is a crisis, but the dominoes
> keep falling.
No, but for years now they knew this was coming and no steps were taken to address it at all. Then when the inevitable arrives finally then it's treated as a crisis, a crisis is something you don't see coming. You most definately don't handle a crisis of this magnutude by throwing 1 tillion at it and requesting total unbridled control over the crisis. I say 1 trillion because anything Bush has been involved in has never come in on budget, and 1 trillion is probably low.
> > Hind
> > sight has proven that we would have made better
> > decisions, if we had it to do over again.
> >
>
> Yes. I think that is why the Congress is pushing
> for more transparency this time around.
There is a reason Congress has a lower approval rating then Bushy. Do you really have faith in Congress to look after our best interest?
>
> > This is basic Finance 101, you don't make long
> > term investments with short term assets. This
> is
> > not rocket science. The market should be
> allowed
> > to work as a free market, or there's no
> > accountability, which breds greed.
>
> That's what Herbert Hoover said in 1929. There are
> times when Keynesian Economics are applicable.
> This is one of them.
No he didn't, I said it here because my major was in Bus.
> > The fat cats
> > knew what they were doing and they knew it was
> > wrong, all the way down to the little loan
> > processor who knew the clients could not afford
> > their mortgage, but ignored the truth.
> >
>
> Yes. Well, that's pretty much moot now, isn't it?
> That's like standing on the Titanic and blaming
> the Captain instead of getting people to the life
> boats.
No, not really. There were in my opinion some serious laws broken here, at the least neglect. There should be a thorough investigation into the shady business policies which took place within this sub-prime mortgage industry. Would it comes to 700 BN, no 1 Trillion+, nothing is MOOT!
> > Same for the car makers, their products are not
> in
> > demand now and we, the taxpayer, are asked to
> help
> > them too. In the 70's we knew we needed to
> > conserve oil, but they didn't focus on that, I
> > knew eventually they would go out of business,
> why
> > didn't they? Bad business.
> >
>
> So at one time you advocate the free markets and
> then you say businesses are irresponsible and
> can't be trusted. Which is it?
>
Both, the free markets account for irresponsible behavior. If you are not a trustworthy reponsible businessman (person) it will eventually directly affect your business in direct proportion to how irresponsible you become in your business. Free enterprise is what America is built on, to change the rules now like this is bad, very bad.
Yes, we have seen first hand that businesses can not and will not regulate themselves, so they can't be trusted. If they could be trusted we wouldn't have this "CRISIS" they say we will have, if we don't pay them.
> > We as a country can't make it our busines to
> prop
> > up bad businesses. We have given that
> impression
> > which has led us to this point and it will only
> > get worse, unless we put our foot down.
>
> If we "put our foot down" we will have 25 percent
> unemployment. Warren Buffet and Alan Greenspan
> believe this downturn could exceed the Great
> Depression. You may think you want that, but you
> would be wrong.
WE may have it anyway, have you checked the trend of unemployment?
The Great Depression was the result of a lack of Federally insured accounts amoung other things, that is not a problem we will face now, as long as our government is sound.
You're right I don't want to see people hurting from fear or something as simple as a lack of imformation. Let me remind you Buffet and Greenspan are not poor.
>
> >
> > If we pay for this bail-out it will be good
> money
> > going after bad. Instead we need it for so
> many
> > better things, like our children for one,
> > education, health care...
>
> This is a crisis. We have to stop the bleeding.
Right now China has more smart people then our total population, there's no reason for that to be happening. This money we will throw at this "CRISIS", we will never see again, not in interest, or return...nothing. We should demand that our hard earned money be used wiser. If we don't start investing in our children and their education, it may soon be to late to make up for the time we've lost in the dumbing down of America as a whole. This is where the bleeding needs to stop and where we will actually see a return on our investment as a nation. Leave Wall street to their own devices, they created this mess let them fix it.
> >
> > Thought...Remember the power outage in the
> > Northeast, prior to our going into Irag? We
> never
> > really got the exact reason for that outage.
> Then
> > shorthly afterwards England has an outage.
> > Accident? Or a message? Who really has the
> > power? How much power does Wall street really
> > have? I think it's bad business to rush into
> > anything that involves 700bn. We should demand
> > more answers and total transparency.
>
>
> I agree about the transparency. However, there are
> plenty of experts in this area who have nothing to
> gain that say we must do something soon.
Yes, there are plenty of experts who say what's being presented is not the answer, and we should examine other options before leaping in blindly.
Well, it seems Congress turned 3 pages into 110 and said, "YES". This is bad.