The book Pagan Christianity has recently been republished by a major publisher. ReImaging the Church has sold out after four days. In "Pagan Church" you might find answers to questions you have always had about church. Much of church is really borrowed not from the bible but non Christian religions. I recently listened to a Internet radio show called DownsizeDC latest show. Frank Viola suggests house churches to replace big budget churches and as the original concept of Christianity. Frank calls them meetings instead of services for good reason. Are there any house churches? Some people after reading the book, "Pagan Christianity," feel uncomfortable continuing with conventional church service as so many elements are identified as non Christian. This includes the order of the service, the sermon, the costum the preacher wears, the pulpit, the building, a lot of what people consider Christianity. It is also ineffectual, how many can remember a past sermon? Frank, it should be explained is not against Christianity but wants it to be more effective, as do I.

Rod Wrote:
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> The book Pagan Christianity has recently been
> republished by a major publisher. ReImaging the
> Church has sold out after four days. In "Pagan
> Church" you might find answers to questions you
> have always had about church. Much of church is
> really borrowed not from the bible but non
> Christian religions. I recently listened to a
> Internet radio show called DownsizeDC latest show.
> Frank Viola suggests house churches to replace big
> budget churches and as the original concept of
> Christianity. Frank calls them meetings instead of
> services for good reason. Are there any house
> churches? Some people after reading the book,
> "Pagan Christianity," feel uncomfortable
> continuing with conventional church service as so
> many elements are identified as non Christian.
> This includes the order of the service, the
> sermon, the costum the preacher wears, the pulpit,
> the building, a lot of what people consider
> Christianity. It is also ineffectual, how many can
> remember a past sermon? Frank, it should be
> explained is not against Christianity but wants it
> to be more effective, as do I.

Modern day "Christians" seem to forget the parts in the bible about the sermon on the mount, Jesus driving the money changers from the Temple and that whole "rich man" and the camel through the eye of a needle discussion. I think the way Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses worship is closer to what Jesus had in mind. But that isn't "fun," now is it?

Conventional churches will do anything they can to stop "house churches". They're no different than the oil companies not wanting alternate forms of energy and they will stop at nothing to prevent it.

My understanding is that all you need is two or more gathering in "His name." Who cares what conventional churches think you should believe?

Most of what we accept as new testament dogma was invented...I mean based on the teachings of St. Paul...a jew who never met Jesus...who had his own agenda to reinvent the new religion and turn it away from it's jewish roots. He was something along the lines of the ex-alcoholic/smoker who fervently turned away from his previous "bad" habits.

The Jesus of his time was one of many people of his day predicting the imminent end of the world and the day of reckoning. He of course was wrong about that day being close at hand and he needed a little reinventing to remain relevant. St. Paul instigated his reinvention.

Vince(1) Wrote:
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> Most of what we accept as new testament dogma was
> invented...I mean based on the teachings of St.
> Paul...a jew who never met Jesus...who had his own
> agenda to reinvent the new religion and turn it
> away from it's jewish roots. He was something
> along the lines of the ex-alcoholic/smoker who
> fervently turned away from his previous "bad"
> habits.
>
> The Jesus of his time was one of many people of
> his day predicting the imminent end of the world
> and the day of reckoning. He of course was wrong
> about that day being close at hand and he needed a
> little reinventing to remain relevant. St. Paul
> instigated his reinvention.

Paul was under the impression that if he converted enough people into followers of Jesus that Jesus would return in his lifetime. Apparently Paul was surprised when that didn't happen. Also, Peter was not a big fan of Paul's and didn't appreciate Paul promoting Jesus to gentiles.

"I think the way Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses worship is closer to what Jesus had in mind. But that isn't "fun," now is it?"

It may not seem fun. It wouldn't of prior to conversion. I've been in some small Christian groups that go for hours and you look at your watch and your surprised. You thought you'd just got there. Is that the working of the holy spirit?

,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 09:59PM by Alias.

Alias said house churches conjure up images of Jonestown? Where have you been the last 50 years? There are more house churches today than traditional churches. Read George Barna's book "Revolution" and get caught up. His book "Pagan Christianity?" is just awesome, every Christian should read it and the sequel "Reimagining Church" is just as good. Antother good book is Reggie McNeals' "The Present Future"

Alias Wrote:
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> House Church? Conjures up images of
> Jonestown.
>
> When WashingToneLocian starts HIS house church....
> Vince, Rod, keep your wallets in sight.


Because a Mega McJesus Church is closer to what Jesus had in mind than sitting around a table in someone's home with a dozen good friends.

=



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 09:55PM by Alias.

Alias Wrote:
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> House Church? Conjures up images of
> Jonestown.
>
> When WashingToneLocian starts HIS house church....
> Vince, Rod, keep your wallets in sight.


Dont worry..Im a true believer in atheism!

]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 10:39PM by Alias.

Sitting around a living room could cost little or nothing as opposed to the billions spent buying and maintaining buildings or flying down to Jonestown. Buildings in which sermons are preached and quickly forgotten, There were no church buildings for hundreds of years after Christ rose from the dead and was seen by over 500 people.

Viola teaches the ancient sophists that were in thier day sought after speakers in great halls. Sophists became Christians and brought along much of thier ways and beliefs. Even today preachers in Bible colleges learn a kind of special odd way of public speaking.

The original church meeting was more like a barbecue. Abraham and the three Visitors. Everyone had something to eat and then spoke of what was on thier mind. Jesus speaks to the disciples while sitting down on the so called sermon on the mount.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 10:40PM by Alias.

Alias Wrote:
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> Vince,
>
> I’m sure that brings you great comfort.
>
> Just be careful around these house church people.
> If ever you have the need to believe in something
> greater than yourself, run like hell, or they’ll
> grab you up and infect your brain.
>
> And, above all else, watch your wallet.


FYI...I believe in a lot of things greater then myself...my family...my community..my country...one world!

],



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 02:18PM by Alias.

Alias Wrote:
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> One world? That's what gets you through the hard
> times? What are you, Miss America?

Ahhh...you must be good christian and republikan..when all else failed you resorted to attack...attack..attack! god bless you brother...the world is a better place with people like you who are willing to attack people who disagree with you.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 10:30PM by Alias.

frank Viola says he has no idea what you clowns are talking about. He is too busy coaching semi-semi-pro baseball to even care, "frankly".