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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
Lurker.
()
Date: August 06, 2008 10:47PM
Here are the DOJ search warrants against Dr. Irvin. This guy was nuts.
http://www.docstoc.com/search/August-2008-DOJ-Documents/3/
In summary:
1) He thought there were two of him
2) He was afraid that the government would end anthrax research within months and told co-workers anthrax should be seen as a huge problem right before the attacks
3) Co-workers noted that he used the same type of wording as in the letters
4) He thought the sorority of KKG was against him and he was obessed with their hazing rituals
5) One of the letters was mailed from outside a KKG headquarters
6) In September just before the letters were mailed he was working unsual late in the night, security records show a huge spike in hours, but for no reaeson
7) He gave the FBI a different fake sample of the Anthrax he was working with.
8) He had two PO boxes for some secret correspondence to an AD for information about the KKG ritual handbook
9) USPS records show he received a shipment of the same type of letters used in the attacks
10) The anthrax in the letters was ground in same method that Dr. Irvin was working on, extremely unique method
http://www.docstoc.com/search/August-2008-DOJ-Documents/3/
In summary:
1) He thought there were two of him
2) He was afraid that the government would end anthrax research within months and told co-workers anthrax should be seen as a huge problem right before the attacks
3) Co-workers noted that he used the same type of wording as in the letters
4) He thought the sorority of KKG was against him and he was obessed with their hazing rituals
5) One of the letters was mailed from outside a KKG headquarters
6) In September just before the letters were mailed he was working unsual late in the night, security records show a huge spike in hours, but for no reaeson
7) He gave the FBI a different fake sample of the Anthrax he was working with.
8) He had two PO boxes for some secret correspondence to an AD for information about the KKG ritual handbook
9) USPS records show he received a shipment of the same type of letters used in the attacks
10) The anthrax in the letters was ground in same method that Dr. Irvin was working on, extremely unique method
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
RESton Peace
()
Date: August 07, 2008 03:17AM
Who the hell is Dr Irvin? Do you mean Julius Irving? He wasn't really a doctor, you know. That was just a nickname he was given because he was like a surgeon threading the ball with precision into the basket.
If you want to discuss anthrax, you should be talking about Bruce Ivins, that dude was a bad motherfucker.
If you want to discuss anthrax, you should be talking about Bruce Ivins, that dude was a bad motherfucker.
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 07, 2008 09:49AM
I really, really don't get how the FBI is so sure this guy was the anthrax killer. Yes, he worked with anthrax and seemed weird. The FBI keeps bringing up the KKG thing. Did anthrax show up at KKG? No?? Then what is the relevance of what appears to be a misguided obsession with a friggin' sorority? The FBI says the mailbox the letters were sent from was a couple of hours away from the sorority. Really? So was the entire state of NJ, Philadelphia, New York, DC, etc. It seems pretty arbitrary to me.
I'm not saying the guy didn't do it. But I'm not seeing anything here that is an iron-clad conviction. The guy was an alcoholic who had personal issues. If that's the case, half the people on this forum are the anthrax killer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2008 09:54AM by WashingToneLocian.
I'm not saying the guy didn't do it. But I'm not seeing anything here that is an iron-clad conviction. The guy was an alcoholic who had personal issues. If that's the case, half the people on this forum are the anthrax killer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2008 09:54AM by WashingToneLocian.
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
496
()
Date: August 07, 2008 10:42AM
What is truly scary is clearances this looney had. Who investigated him for his TS and poly? Bozo the clown?
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 07, 2008 12:19PM
496 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is truly scary is clearances this looney had.
> Who investigated him for his TS and poly? Bozo the
> clown?
It doesn't make sense, does it. If the FBI thought he did it, why didn't they pull his security clearances while investigating him?
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is truly scary is clearances this looney had.
> Who investigated him for his TS and poly? Bozo the
> clown?
It doesn't make sense, does it. If the FBI thought he did it, why didn't they pull his security clearances while investigating him?
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
Edgar
()
Date: August 07, 2008 12:49PM
WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really, really don't get how the FBI is so sure
> this guy was the anthrax killer. Yes, he worked
> with anthrax and seemed weird. The FBI keeps
> bringing up the KKG thing. Did anthrax show up at
> KKG? No?? Then what is the relevance of what
> appears to be a misguided obsession with a
> friggin' sorority? The FBI says the mailbox the
> letters were sent from was a couple of hours away
> from the sorority. Really? So was the entire state
> of NJ, Philadelphia, New York, DC, etc. It seems
> pretty arbitrary to me.
Actually, if you had read some news about it, you may have been able to see stories that indicated: "The mailbox just off the campus of Princeton University where the letters were mailed sits about 100 yards away from where the college's Kappa Kappa Gamma chapter stores its rush materials, initiation robes and other property. Sorority members do not live there, and the Kappa chapter at Princeton does not provide a house for the women."
Not sure how long it takes you to move 100 yds, but most people can cover it in under 2 hours.
You can poke holes in the case, but you should do it with facts....
> I'm not saying the guy didn't do it. But I'm not
> seeing anything here that is an iron-clad
> conviction. The guy was an alcoholic who had
> personal issues. If that's the case, half the
> people on this forum are the anthrax killer.
It is a largely circumstantial case, but there are some strong indicators pointing towards Ivins:
-- Law enforcement traced the anthrax used in the attacks to a single batch that resided in the Fort Detrick lab where Ivins worked. The flask from which the spores were taken was under Ivins' control.
-- Investigators said in search warrant applications that Ivins misled them by giving them samples from his lab that did not come from the anthrax that was used to make the powder that eventually found its way into the mail.
-- Lab access records show that he spent an inordinate amount of time in the lab, alone and at night, in the days in September and October 2001 just before two sets of letters were mailed, according to documents released by the government on Wednesday.
-- The envelopes used in the attacks came from a relatively small defective batch sold only in Maryland and Virginia, including at a Frederick, Md., post office where Ivins had a box.
-- Ivins had serious mental issues.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really, really don't get how the FBI is so sure
> this guy was the anthrax killer. Yes, he worked
> with anthrax and seemed weird. The FBI keeps
> bringing up the KKG thing. Did anthrax show up at
> KKG? No?? Then what is the relevance of what
> appears to be a misguided obsession with a
> friggin' sorority? The FBI says the mailbox the
> letters were sent from was a couple of hours away
> from the sorority. Really? So was the entire state
> of NJ, Philadelphia, New York, DC, etc. It seems
> pretty arbitrary to me.
Actually, if you had read some news about it, you may have been able to see stories that indicated: "The mailbox just off the campus of Princeton University where the letters were mailed sits about 100 yards away from where the college's Kappa Kappa Gamma chapter stores its rush materials, initiation robes and other property. Sorority members do not live there, and the Kappa chapter at Princeton does not provide a house for the women."
Not sure how long it takes you to move 100 yds, but most people can cover it in under 2 hours.
You can poke holes in the case, but you should do it with facts....
> I'm not saying the guy didn't do it. But I'm not
> seeing anything here that is an iron-clad
> conviction. The guy was an alcoholic who had
> personal issues. If that's the case, half the
> people on this forum are the anthrax killer.
It is a largely circumstantial case, but there are some strong indicators pointing towards Ivins:
-- Law enforcement traced the anthrax used in the attacks to a single batch that resided in the Fort Detrick lab where Ivins worked. The flask from which the spores were taken was under Ivins' control.
-- Investigators said in search warrant applications that Ivins misled them by giving them samples from his lab that did not come from the anthrax that was used to make the powder that eventually found its way into the mail.
-- Lab access records show that he spent an inordinate amount of time in the lab, alone and at night, in the days in September and October 2001 just before two sets of letters were mailed, according to documents released by the government on Wednesday.
-- The envelopes used in the attacks came from a relatively small defective batch sold only in Maryland and Virginia, including at a Frederick, Md., post office where Ivins had a box.
-- Ivins had serious mental issues.
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
Edgar
()
Date: August 07, 2008 12:54PM
WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 496 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is truly scary is clearances this looney
> had.
> > Who investigated him for his TS and poly? Bozo
> the
> > clown?
>
>
> It doesn't make sense, does it. If the FBI thought
> he did it, why didn't they pull his security
> clearances while investigating him?
Pulling a clearance is an actionable offense. While I do not know the exact reason, I can conjecture a guess on a few. First, they horribly bungled the Hattfeld investigation and didn't want a repeat. Second, revoking the clearance could arise suspicion and cause the suspect to flee or cover his tracks. Finally, the guy was certainly under constant surveillence. I am certain he couldn't mail a bill payment without it being fully tested.
-------------------------------------------------------
> 496 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is truly scary is clearances this looney
> had.
> > Who investigated him for his TS and poly? Bozo
> the
> > clown?
>
>
> It doesn't make sense, does it. If the FBI thought
> he did it, why didn't they pull his security
> clearances while investigating him?
Pulling a clearance is an actionable offense. While I do not know the exact reason, I can conjecture a guess on a few. First, they horribly bungled the Hattfeld investigation and didn't want a repeat. Second, revoking the clearance could arise suspicion and cause the suspect to flee or cover his tracks. Finally, the guy was certainly under constant surveillence. I am certain he couldn't mail a bill payment without it being fully tested.
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 07, 2008 01:17PM
Edgar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingToneLocian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really, really don't get how the FBI is so
> sure
> > this guy was the anthrax killer. Yes, he worked
> > with anthrax and seemed weird. The FBI keeps
> > bringing up the KKG thing. Did anthrax show up
> at
> > KKG? No?? Then what is the relevance of what
> > appears to be a misguided obsession with a
> > friggin' sorority? The FBI says the mailbox the
> > letters were sent from was a couple of hours
> away
> > from the sorority. Really? So was the entire
> state
> > of NJ, Philadelphia, New York, DC, etc. It
> seems
> > pretty arbitrary to me.
>
> Actually, if you had read some news about it, you
> may have been able to see stories that indicated:
> "The mailbox just off the campus of Princeton
> University where the letters were mailed sits
> about 100 yards away from where the college's
> Kappa Kappa Gamma chapter stores its rush
> materials, initiation robes and other property.
> Sorority members do not live there, and the Kappa
> chapter at Princeton does not provide a house for
> the women."
>
> Not sure how long it takes you to move 100 yds,
> but most people can cover it in under 2 hours.
>
> You can poke holes in the case, but you should do
> it with facts....
>
>
> > I'm not saying the guy didn't do it. But I'm
> not
> > seeing anything here that is an iron-clad
> > conviction. The guy was an alcoholic who had
> > personal issues. If that's the case, half the
> > people on this forum are the anthrax killer.
>
> It is a largely circumstantial case, but there are
> some strong indicators pointing towards Ivins:
>
> -- Law enforcement traced the anthrax used in the
> attacks to a single batch that resided in the Fort
> Detrick lab where Ivins worked. The flask from
> which the spores were taken was under Ivins'
> control.
>
> -- Investigators said in search warrant
> applications that Ivins misled them by giving them
> samples from his lab that did not come from the
> anthrax that was used to make the powder that
> eventually found its way into the mail.
>
> -- Lab access records show that he spent an
> inordinate amount of time in the lab, alone and at
> night, in the days in September and October 2001
> just before two sets of letters were mailed,
> according to documents released by the government
> on Wednesday.
>
> -- The envelopes used in the attacks came from a
> relatively small defective batch sold only in
> Maryland and Virginia, including at a Frederick,
> Md., post office where Ivins had a box.
>
> -- Ivins had serious mental issues.
That helps clarify things. Some of the initial reports about KKG did not mention that the mailbox was that close. That said, given the bungling involved with Hatfill, I think it would be useful to have an independent commission, ala the Warren Commission, review the evidence and issue a report. It won't quell the conspiracy nuts. But it should help with the general public's understanding.
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingToneLocian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really, really don't get how the FBI is so
> sure
> > this guy was the anthrax killer. Yes, he worked
> > with anthrax and seemed weird. The FBI keeps
> > bringing up the KKG thing. Did anthrax show up
> at
> > KKG? No?? Then what is the relevance of what
> > appears to be a misguided obsession with a
> > friggin' sorority? The FBI says the mailbox the
> > letters were sent from was a couple of hours
> away
> > from the sorority. Really? So was the entire
> state
> > of NJ, Philadelphia, New York, DC, etc. It
> seems
> > pretty arbitrary to me.
>
> Actually, if you had read some news about it, you
> may have been able to see stories that indicated:
> "The mailbox just off the campus of Princeton
> University where the letters were mailed sits
> about 100 yards away from where the college's
> Kappa Kappa Gamma chapter stores its rush
> materials, initiation robes and other property.
> Sorority members do not live there, and the Kappa
> chapter at Princeton does not provide a house for
> the women."
>
> Not sure how long it takes you to move 100 yds,
> but most people can cover it in under 2 hours.
>
> You can poke holes in the case, but you should do
> it with facts....
>
>
> > I'm not saying the guy didn't do it. But I'm
> not
> > seeing anything here that is an iron-clad
> > conviction. The guy was an alcoholic who had
> > personal issues. If that's the case, half the
> > people on this forum are the anthrax killer.
>
> It is a largely circumstantial case, but there are
> some strong indicators pointing towards Ivins:
>
> -- Law enforcement traced the anthrax used in the
> attacks to a single batch that resided in the Fort
> Detrick lab where Ivins worked. The flask from
> which the spores were taken was under Ivins'
> control.
>
> -- Investigators said in search warrant
> applications that Ivins misled them by giving them
> samples from his lab that did not come from the
> anthrax that was used to make the powder that
> eventually found its way into the mail.
>
> -- Lab access records show that he spent an
> inordinate amount of time in the lab, alone and at
> night, in the days in September and October 2001
> just before two sets of letters were mailed,
> according to documents released by the government
> on Wednesday.
>
> -- The envelopes used in the attacks came from a
> relatively small defective batch sold only in
> Maryland and Virginia, including at a Frederick,
> Md., post office where Ivins had a box.
>
> -- Ivins had serious mental issues.
That helps clarify things. Some of the initial reports about KKG did not mention that the mailbox was that close. That said, given the bungling involved with Hatfill, I think it would be useful to have an independent commission, ala the Warren Commission, review the evidence and issue a report. It won't quell the conspiracy nuts. But it should help with the general public's understanding.
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
Jimmy
()
Date: August 07, 2008 04:39PM
The FBI always get its man.
BTW, à la (not ala)
BTW, à la (not ala)
Re: Anthax Case DOJ Search Warrant against Dr. Irvin
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 07, 2008 06:24PM
Jimmy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The FBI always get its man.
>
> BTW, à la (not ala)
Tell that to Richard Jewell's family or all the innocent bystanders the FBI shot to death in the 1930s while chasing gangsters.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The FBI always get its man.
>
> BTW, à la (not ala)
Tell that to Richard Jewell's family or all the innocent bystanders the FBI shot to death in the 1930s while chasing gangsters.