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Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: YourTaxDollarsAtWork ()
Date: November 29, 2012 10:20AM

You might as well enjoy watching it on the news. You're paying for it.
You voted for it.

http://whitehouse.gov1.info/blog/blog_post/agenda-hawaii.html

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Leftist Gorilla ()
Date: November 29, 2012 10:25AM

Where does it say that the cost is $4M? And where does it say that the cost is being born by tax dollars? (I know he'll fly on AirForce1...and have his security detail with him...but, how is that any different than any other President?)

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Imagination Land ()
Date: November 29, 2012 10:30AM

A sucker born every minute.

In other news North Korean supreme leader Kim Jong-un, 29, has officially been named the Sexiest Man of the year.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Dr Yes ()
Date: November 29, 2012 10:32AM

YourTaxDollarsAtWork Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might as well enjoy watching it on the news.
> You're paying for it.
> You voted for it.
>
> http://whitehouse.gov1.info/blog/blog_post/agenda-
> hawaii.html

Read the upper right of the page header. A parody also called pastiche, spoof, send-up or lampoon, in current use, is an imitative work created to mock, comment on or trivialise an original work, its subject, author, style, or some other target, by means of satiric or ironic imitation.

I suppose next you be quoting FOX News articles.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 10:53AM

YourTaxDollarsAtWork Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might as well enjoy watching it on the news.
> You're paying for it.
> You voted for it.
>
> http://whitehouse.gov1.info/blog/blog_post/agenda-
> hawaii.html

Quite the dunce, you are.

~
Attachments:
obama.jpg

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: long and foster ()
Date: November 29, 2012 11:00AM

You mean the 22 vacations he took and you paid for during his first term didnt cost that much?. It would be cheaper to purchase Marthas Vineyard and just sign it over to them.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 29, 2012 11:06AM

Leftist Gorilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where does it say that the cost is $4M? And where
> does it say that the cost is being born by tax
> dollars? (I know he'll fly on AirForce1...and have
> his security detail with him...but, how is that
> any different than any other President?)

Last I checked, 9 0's was a billion, not a million.

And it wouldn't surprise me (4M), as he has the most expensive Presidential budget in history (IE, staff, trips, vacations, etc.)

While in office, his family pays for practically nothing on their own dime.

I am not sure why he would need to staff a full time 24/7 film projectionist. Hasn't he ever heard of Netflix????

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 11:12AM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While in office, his family pays for practically
> nothing on their own dime.

What president does? Bush? St. Ronnie? Please.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: saywat ()
Date: November 29, 2012 11:23AM

YourTaxDollarsAtWork Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might as well enjoy watching it on the news.
> You're paying for it.
> You voted for it.

> $4,000,000,000.00 vacation

lol, what a fail you are. A 4 BILLION dollar vacation where does it say it is that much. waht skool did you go to dummass he culd almost buy hawayee for dat

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 29, 2012 11:34AM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > While in office, his family pays for
> practically
> > nothing on their own dime.
>
> What president does? Bush? St. Ronnie? Please.

Most President's don't have multiple children living in the White House with them either. A significant portion of my tax dollars go towards their upkeep and entertainment.

While I understand that Presidents should be supported by the people, their entire family are living (literally) like royalty under his Presidency. He talks cuts in the budget, while living high on the hog.

Dammit, do as I say, not as I do!

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 11:43AM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most President's don't have multiple children
> living in the White House with them either. A
> significant portion of my tax dollars go towards
> their upkeep and entertainment.
>
> While I understand that Presidents should be
> supported by the people, their entire family are
> living (literally) like royalty under his
> Presidency. He talks cuts in the budget, while
> living high on the hog.
>
> Dammit, do as I say, not as I do!

You're complaining that President Obama is young enough to have children living in the WH?

Oddly, I cannot remember the last Republican president whose children lived in the WH. Clinton (D), Carter (D), Kennedy (D) all did, but what about the Rs?

Regardless, he's the PRESIDENT, for f^ck's sake. Get over it!

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 29, 2012 11:50AM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Most President's don't have multiple children
> > living in the White House with them either. A
> > significant portion of my tax dollars go
> towards
> > their upkeep and entertainment.
> >
> > While I understand that Presidents should be
> > supported by the people, their entire family
> are
> > living (literally) like royalty under his
> > Presidency. He talks cuts in the budget, while
> > living high on the hog.
> >
> > Dammit, do as I say, not as I do!
>
> You're complaining that President Obama is young
> enough to have children living in the WH?
>
> Oddly, I cannot remember the last Republican
> president whose children lived in the WH. Clinton
> (D), Carter (D), Kennedy (D) all did, but what
> about the Rs?
>
> Regardless, he's the PRESIDENT, for f^ck's sake.
> Get over it!

Way to miss the point, even though it's cogently explained. There is a different between a child and children. Tell me, how much is one child vs multiple children? Half as much, 1/4?

I am complaining that he lives like royalty on the government dime. I mean a full time 24/7 film projectionist? Is that really necessary?!?!? He has multples of staff that prior Presidents either made do of fewer or none of!

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 11:59AM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Way to miss the point, even though it's cogently
> explained.

Whatever.

> I am complaining that he lives like royalty on the
> government dime.

All president do, which is also 'cogently explained. The costs involved are infinitesimal compare to total gov't. spending. Really, you need to get over this obsession...

> [Obanma] has multples of staff that prior Presidents either
> made do of fewer or none of!

Bullshit, or show some evidence.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 29, 2012 12:09PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Way to miss the point, even though it's
> cogently
> > explained.
>
> Whatever.
>
> > I am complaining that he lives like royalty on
> the
> > government dime.
>
> All president do, which is also 'cogently
> explained. The costs involved are infinitesimal
> compare to total gov't. spending. Really, you
> need to get over this obsession...
>
> > [Obanma] has multples of staff that prior
> Presidents either
> > made do of fewer or none of!
>
> Bullshit, or show some evidence.

He wants to tell us that "we as Americans have to tighten our belts and cutback". Like I said, do as I say, not as I do.

I would show evidence, but proof is rarely acknowledged here. Even so, your reply would predictably be "get over it", despite having proven it.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 12:29PM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He wants to tell us that "we as Americans have to
> tighten our belts and cutback". Like I said, do
> as I say, not as I do.
>
> I would show evidence, but proof is rarely
> acknowledged here. Even so, your reply would
> predictably be "get over it", despite having
> proven it.
>
> Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Okay, well thanks for playing.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Crony Wasteafarian ()
Date: November 29, 2012 12:47PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He wants to tell us that "we as Americans have
> to
> > tighten our belts and cutback". Like I said,
> do
> > as I say, not as I do.
> >
> > I would show evidence, but proof is rarely
> > acknowledged here. Even so, your reply would
> > predictably be "get over it", despite having
> > proven it.
> >
> > Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
>
> Okay, well thanks for playing.



President Obama has spent far more lavishly on White House state dinners than previous chief executives, including nearly $1 million on a 2010 dinner for Mexico's president, according to documents obtained by The Washington Examiner.

Presidents have long used formal dinners to court foreign heads of state and to dish out fine food and wine to reward political, financial and show business celebrities and supporters.

But current and former government officials said the documents obtained by The Examiner point to an unprecedented upsurge in White House spending on such events.

The Obama extravaganza two years ago for Mexican President Felipe Calderon, which included a performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793, or more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents show.

The Calderon dinner was held on the South Lawn in a massive tent adorned with decorated walls, hanging chandeliers, carpeting and a stage for Beyonce's performance.

Guests rode private trolley cars from the White House to the tent. Celebrity guest chef Rick Bayless from Chicago’s Topolobampo restaurant was imported to prepare Oaxacan black mole, black bean tamalon and grilled green beans.

The dinner for the prime minister of India -- which was famously crashed by Virginia couple Michaele and Tareq Salahi -- cost nearly half a million dollars. Dinners for Chinese President Hu Jintao and British Prime Minister David Cameron were of the same level of extravagance.

A knowledgeable government official who made the documents available to The Examiner said the extravagant spending seemed unfair with so many Americans out of work.

"It just kind of takes your breath away to see the expenditure of money that has occurred since 2009," the official said.

Gary Walters, who ran presidential household operations for 21 years during Democratic and Republican administrations, before retiring in 2007, told The Examiner the costs reflected in the documents were "excessive. They are high."

The chief usher of the White House from the Reagan to George W. Bush presidencies, Walters consulted a former White House colleague and said neither of them could recall entertainment costs anywhere near those revealed in the documents provided to The Examiner.

"The highest [cost] event we could remember was $190,000 to $200,000 range, and that was for a very large dinner outside that was probably somewhere in the vicinity of 500 people with two different tents," Walters said, noting that the event was held under President Clinton.

Data for state dinner costs under Bush were unavailable because he signed an executive order in 2001 that put all presidential documents under seal for five years after a chief executive leaves office.

Spokesmen for the presidential libraries of Clinton and President George H.W. Bush were unable to locate data for dinners held in those years.

State dinner costs are a closely guarded secret, the officials said, because of concern about offending governments whose dignitaries receive less opulent bashes than others.

A White House spokesman declined to comment.

The documents also reveal that the Obama White House retained an outside planner for the dinners. Bryan Rafanelli, a Boston-based celebrity event planner who was retained last year, managed former first daughter Chelsea Clinton's 2010 nupitals. His firm's website boasts that he produced "State Dinners hosted by President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama."

Rafanelli's business partner, Mark Walsh, is deputy chief of the State Department's Office of Protocol, which reimburses the White House executive residence for the events.

An attorney, Walsh worked on the 2008 presidential campaigns of both Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, according to his official online biography.

Under a long-standing agreement, state dinner expenses are sent by the White House to Walsh's office for processing. His name does not appear in any of the documents obtained by the newspaper.

Asked about the propriety of a White House contractor having a business relationship with a federal official in a position such as Walsh, Walters said, "I don't think it looks very good. Does it smell right? No."

Walters said he never used outside event planners because "I believed the White House residence staff could do the job."

A spokesman for Rafanelli declined to make him available for comment.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 01:04PM

Crony Wasteafarian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...by The Washington Examiner.

Nice hit piece.

**yawn**

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Fruppie ()
Date: November 29, 2012 01:09PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crony Wasteafarian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...by The Washington Examiner.
>
> Nice hit piece.
>
> **yawn**

That's stupid.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Doh ()
Date: November 29, 2012 01:15PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crony Wasteafarian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...by The Washington Examiner.
>
> Nice hit piece.
>
> **yawn**


IOW, you can't argue the facts. lol

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 01:31PM

Doh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IOW, you can't argue the facts. lol

That hit piece was rife with unsubstantiated opinions. Obviously, facts are not The Washington Examiner's strong suit.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Dohhs ()
Date: November 29, 2012 01:35PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > IOW, you can't argue the facts. lol
>
> That hit piece was rife with unsubstantiated
> opinions. Obviously, facts are not The Washington
> Examiner's strong suit.


Ahhh... OK. $969,793 for a single dinner is an 'opinion.' Got it.

lmao

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Errf ()
Date: November 29, 2012 01:44PM

Hey, stupid fucks. That website is completely fake. The idiot who posted this thread got punked.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: koolaid ()
Date: November 29, 2012 01:44PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> All president do, which is also 'cogently
> explained. The costs involved are infinitesimal
> compare to total gov't. spending. Really, you
> need to get over this obsession...

Weseal lay off the koolaid.

I dont want to ever hear another word out of you about higher taxes, this is why no one will pay higher taxes. This liberal attitude of dont worry about Obama he cant spend that much compared to everyone else when he is living like a king compared to other presidents and wasting millions if not billions a year doing it and his solution is Ill just take more from people to pay for it.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Atom ()
Date: November 29, 2012 01:47PM

According to that article we should have quite the treasure trove of documents come out next November.

An XMas present for truth...I kind of hope Dick Cheny is alive for that.

Count down to burning bush: 300 some odd days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2012 01:49PM by Atom.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: clock ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:02PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> That hit piece was rife with unsubstantiated
> opinions. Obviously, facts are not The Washington
> Examiner's strong suit.


unsubstantiated opinions?

You want to try that one again?

First look up both words.

And in the future, stick to smaller words.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 02:08PM

clock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> unsubstantiated opinions?

That is what I wrote, yes.

Is reading comprehension a challenge for you?

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: check your facts ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:15PM

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to that article we should have quite the
> treasure trove of documents come out next
> November.

Hey dummy, welcome to America and all, but our Presidents leave office in JANUARY, not November.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: LOL @ MHK ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:16PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clock Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > unsubstantiated opinions?
>
> That is what I wrote, yes.
>
> Is reading comprehension a challenge for you?


Wow, doubling down on your stupidity. I bet this isn't a new phenomenom for you.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Bush Whacked ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:20PM

We need to bring all terrorist to justice, now watch me hit this drive!"
Attachments:
Copy (2) of bushgolf.jpg

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 02:23PM

LOL @ MHK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, doubling down on your stupidity. I bet this
> isn't a new phenomenom for you.

Really, that's all you've got?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: LOL @ MHK ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:27PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL @ MHK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow, doubling down on your stupidity. I bet
> this
> > isn't a new phenomenom for you.
>
> Really, that's all you've got?
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


I don't need anymore. You are more than capable of making yourself look stupid.....

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Mr. Webster ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:27PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clock Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > unsubstantiated opinions?
>
> That is what I wrote, yes.
>
> Is reading comprehension a challenge for you?


You should ask Santa for a dictionary.

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Sandy ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:30PM

Bush Whacked Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need to bring all terrorist to justice, now
> watch me hit this drive!"


Hang on, I'm still on the beach.


Obama_Vacation_0301a.jpg?uuid=7r2cpstTEe

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Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 02:30PM

President Obama has spent far more lavishly on White House state dinners than previous chief executives [Unsubstantiated Opinion], including nearly $1 million on a 2010 dinner for Mexico's president, according to documents obtained by The Washington Examiner.

Presidents have long used formal dinners to court foreign heads of state and to dish out fine food and wine to reward political, financial and show business celebrities and supporters.

But current and former government officials said the documents obtained by The Examiner point to an unprecedented upsurge in White House spending on such events [Unsubstantiated Opinion].

The Obama extravaganza two years ago for Mexican President Felipe Calderon, which included a performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793, or more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents show.

The Calderon dinner was held on the South Lawn in a massive tent adorned with decorated walls, hanging chandeliers, carpeting and a stage for Beyonce's performance.

Guests rode private trolley cars from the White House to the tent. Celebrity guest chef Rick Bayless from Chicago’s Topolobampo restaurant was imported to prepare Oaxacan black mole, black bean tamalon and grilled green beans.

The dinner for the prime minister of India -- which was famously crashed by Virginia couple Michaele and Tareq Salahi -- cost nearly half a million dollars. Dinners for Chinese President Hu Jintao and British Prime Minister David Cameron were of the same level of extravagance.

A knowledgeable government official who made the documents available to The Examiner said the extravagant spending seemed unfair with so many Americans out of work [Unsubstantiated Opinion].

"It just kind of takes your breath away to see the expenditure of money that has occurred since 2009," the official said [Unsubstantiated Opinion]
.

Gary Walters, who ran presidential household operations for 21 years during Democratic and Republican administrations, before retiring in 2007, told The Examiner the costs reflected in the documents were "excessive. They are high." [Unsubstantiated Opinion]

The chief usher of the White House from the Reagan to George W. Bush presidencies, Walters consulted a former White House colleague and said neither of them could recall entertainment costs anywhere near those revealed in the documents provided to The Examiner.

"The highest [cost] event we could remember was $190,000 to $200,000 range, and that was for a very large dinner outside that was probably somewhere in the vicinity of 500 people with two different tents," Walters said, noting that the event was held under President Clinton [Unsubstantiated Opinion].

Data for state dinner costs under Bush were unavailable because he signed an executive order in 2001 that put all presidential documents under seal for five years after a chief executive leaves office.

Spokesmen for the presidential libraries of Clinton and President George H.W. Bush were unable to locate data for dinners held in those years.

State dinner costs are a closely guarded secret, the officials said, because of concern about offending governments whose dignitaries receive less opulent bashes than others.

A White House spokesman declined to comment.

The documents also reveal that the Obama White House retained an outside planner for the dinners. Bryan Rafanelli, a Boston-based celebrity event planner who was retained last year, managed former first daughter Chelsea Clinton's 2010 nupitals. His firm's website boasts that he produced "State Dinners hosted by President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama."

Rafanelli's business partner, Mark Walsh, is deputy chief of the State Department's Office of Protocol, which reimburses the White House executive residence for the events.

An attorney, Walsh worked on the 2008 presidential campaigns of both Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, according to his official online biography.

Under a long-standing agreement, state dinner expenses are sent by the White House to Walsh's office for processing. His name does not appear in any of the documents obtained by the newspaper.

Asked about the propriety of a White House contractor having a business relationship with a federal official in a position such as Walsh, Walters said, "I don't think it looks very good. Does it smell right? No." [Unsubstantiated Opinion]

Walters said he never used outside event planners because "I believed the White House residence staff could do the job." [Unsubstantiated Opinion]

A spokesman for Rafanelli declined to make him available for comment.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: BigK ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:32PM

If you don't even know that what you said is $4 billion and not million why should we do anything but give you shit asshole.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 02:33PM

Crony Wasteafarian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Data for state dinner costs under Bush were
> unavailable because he signed an executive order
> in 2001 that put all presidential documents under
> seal for five years after a chief executive leaves
> office.
>
> Spokesmen for the presidential libraries of
> Clinton and President George H.W. Bush were unable
> to locate data for dinners held in those years.

How convenient.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: u b dumb ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:35PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> President Obama has spent far more lavishly on
> White House state dinners than previous chief
> executives [Unsubstantiated Opinion]
,

Umm, the next clause substantiates it. Really, dummy, get a dictionary.

> including nearly $1 million on a 2010 dinner for
> Mexico's president, according to documents
> obtained by The Washington Examiner.

Substantiates the previous clause/

> But current and former government officials
> said the documents obtained by The Examiner point
> to an unprecedented upsurge in White House
> spending on such events [Unsubstantiated
> Opinion]
.

Umm, documents are factual evidence. Not opinions. You really aren't too bright. Can you even eat unassisted?

> The Obama extravaganza two years ago for Mexican
> President Felipe Calderon, which included a
> performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793, or
> more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents
> show.

I think that is a fact. Is that a fact? I know you have trouble telling the difference between fact and fiction.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Derp ()
Date: November 29, 2012 02:37PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> President Obama has spent far more lavishly on
> White House state dinners than previous chief
> executives
,
> including nearly $1 million on a 2010 dinner for
> Mexico's president, according to documents
> obtained by The Washington Examiner. [Fact]
>
> The Obama extravaganza two years ago for Mexican
> President Felipe Calderon, which included a
> performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793, or
> more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents
> show.
[Fact.]
>
> The Calderon dinner was held on the South Lawn in
> a massive tent adorned with decorated walls,
> hanging chandeliers, carpeting and a stage for
> Beyonce's performance.
[Fact.]
>
> Guests rode private trolley cars from the White
> House to the tent. Celebrity guest chef Rick
> Bayless from Chicago’s Topolobampo restaurant
> was imported to prepare Oaxacan black mole, black
> bean tamalon and grilled green beans.
[Fact.]
>
> The dinner for the prime minister of India --
> which was famously crashed by Virginia couple
> Michaele and Tareq Salahi -- cost nearly half a
> million dollars. Dinners for Chinese President Hu
> Jintao and British Prime Minister David Cameron
> were of the same level of extravagance.
[Fact.]
>

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 02:42PM

u b dumb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > President Obama has spent far more lavishly
> on
> > White House state dinners than previous chief
> > executives [Unsubstantiated Opinion]
,
>
> Umm, the next clause substantiates it. Really,
> dummy, get a dictionary.
>
> > including nearly $1 million on a 2010 dinner
> for
> > Mexico's president, according to documents
> > obtained by The Washington Examiner.
>
> Substantiates the previous clause/

No, it doesn't. Lavish compared to what? We don't know what any other president in the past twenty years spent.

> > But current and former government officials
> > said the documents obtained by The Examiner
> point
> > to an unprecedented upsurge in White House
> > spending on such events [Unsubstantiated
> > Opinion]
.
>
> Umm, documents are factual evidence. Not
> opinions. You really aren't too bright. Can you
> even eat unassisted?

The "current and former government officials" are opining about the documents, not stating facts.

> > The Obama extravaganza two years ago for
> Mexican
> > President Felipe Calderon, which included a
> > performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793,
> or
> > more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents
> > show.
>
> I think that is a fact. Is that a fact? I know
> you have trouble telling the difference between
> fact and fiction.

Did I allege that that particular statement wasn't a fact? No. Please try to keep up.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2012 02:58PM by Mittens Having Kittens.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 02:46PM

Derp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > President Obama has spent far more lavishly
> on
> > White House state dinners than previous chief
> > executives
,
> > including nearly $1 million on a 2010 dinner
> for
> > Mexico's president, according to documents
> > obtained by The Washington Examiner. [Fact]
> >
> > The Obama extravaganza two years ago for
> Mexican
> > President Felipe Calderon, which included a
> > performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793,
> or
> > more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents
> > show.
[Fact.]
> >
> > The Calderon dinner was held on the South Lawn
> in
> > a massive tent adorned with decorated walls,
> > hanging chandeliers, carpeting and a stage for
> > Beyonce's performance.
[Fact.]
> >
> > Guests rode private trolley cars from the
> White
> > House to the tent. Celebrity guest chef Rick
> > Bayless from Chicago’s Topolobampo restaurant
> > was imported to prepare Oaxacan black mole,
> black
> > bean tamalon and grilled green beans.

> [Fact.]
> >
> > The dinner for the prime minister of India
> --
> > which was famously crashed by Virginia couple
> > Michaele and Tareq Salahi -- cost nearly half a
> > million dollars. Dinners for Chinese President
> Hu
> > Jintao and British Prime Minister David Cameron
> > were of the same level of extravagance.

> [Fact.]

Yep, all facts.

If you re-read my earlier post, I said the article was 'rife with unsubstantiated opinions', not 'devoid of facts'.

Again, please try to keep up.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: facts are facts ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:01PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you re-read my earlier post, I said the article
> was 'rife with unsubstantiated opinions', not
> 'devoid of facts'.
>
> Again, please try to keep up.

No, you didn't point to opinions. The sentences you pointed to were facts substantiated by documents or direct recollection of someone involved in the process.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: factually speaking ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:04PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> No, it doesn't. Lavish compared to what? We
> don't know what any other president in the past
> twenty years spent.

The official in question knows. "Gary Walters, who ran presidential household operations for 21 years during Democratic and Republican administrations, before retiring in 2007, told The Examiner the costs reflected in the documents were 'excessive. They are high.'"

He is in a position to offer credible eyewitness evidence of a factual nature.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 03:08PM

facts are facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The sentences you pointed to were facts substantiated by
> documents or direct recollection of someone
> involved in the process.

You are mistaken.

As I stated eariler (really, try to be more attentive), the spending was called 'lavish' without any basis in fact. That's called an opinion.

A "direct recollection of someone involved in the process" is by definition an opinion.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 03:09PM

factually speaking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> No, it doesn't. Lavish compared to what? We
> > don't know what any other president in the past
> > twenty years spent.
>
> The official in question knows. "Gary Walters,
> who ran presidential household operations for 21
> years during Democratic and Republican
> administrations, before retiring in 2007, told The
> Examiner the costs reflected in the documents were
> 'excessive. They are high.'"

That is Mr. Walter's opinion. It is not an objective fact.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: huh, dummy? ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:14PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> factually speaking Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >> No, it doesn't. Lavish compared to what?
> We
> > > don't know what any other president in the
> past
> > > twenty years spent.
> >
> > The official in question knows. "Gary Walters,
> > who ran presidential household operations for
> 21
> > years during Democratic and Republican
> > administrations, before retiring in 2007, told
> The
> > Examiner the costs reflected in the documents
> were
> > 'excessive. They are high.'"
>
> That is Mr. Walter's opinion. It is not an
> objective fact.


You seriously need a dictionary. If I bought a car in 1996 and I know it cost $25,000 that is an opinion? Do you realize how stupid you look right now?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: wow, you are REALLY stupid ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:15PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> facts are facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The sentences you pointed to were facts
> substantiated by
> > documents or direct recollection of someone
> > involved in the process.
>
> You are mistaken.
>
> As I stated eariler (really, try to be more
> attentive), the spending was called 'lavish'
> without any basis in fact. That's called an
> opinion.

No, it is a fact supported by documents and direct recollection.

> A "direct recollection of someone involved in the
> process" is by definition an opinion.


No it isn't. It is a fact. If I saw a yellow bus driving down the road and it hit a person, then I recall it and tell the story, that is an opinion?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: subborn and stupid you be ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:16PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A "direct recollection of someone involved in the
> process" is by definition an opinion.

So, sworn statements in court are "opinions"? Wow, fucking wow you are an idiot.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 03:25PM

> You seriously need a dictionary. If I bought a
> car in 1996 and I know it cost $25,000 that is an
> opinion?

What are you talking about?

Mr. Walters opined; "...the costs reflected in the documents were "excessive. They are high."

He further recollected; "The highest [cost] event we could remember was $190,000 to $200,000 range..."

Now, if Mr. Walters had invoices to back up his assertions, you'd be cooking w/gas. But he doesn't, so it's his opinion.

BTW, your reliance on ad hominem attacks makes you look weak.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2012 03:25PM by Mittens Having Kittens.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 03:34PM

subborn and stupid you be Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, sworn statements in court are "opinions"?
> Wow, fucking wow you are an idiot.

Mr. Walters was under oath when he made these statements? Gee, I missed where that was stated in the article.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: it is a fact that you are stupid ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:36PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > You seriously need a dictionary. If I bought a
> > car in 1996 and I know it cost $25,000 that is
> an
> > opinion?
>
> What are you talking about?
>
> Mr. Walters opined; "...the costs reflected in the
> documents were "excessive. They are high."

A fact supported by documents and his recollection

> He further recollected; "The highest [cost] event
> we could remember was $190,000 to $200,000
> range..."

A fact.

> Now, if Mr. Walters had invoices to back up his
> assertions, you'd be cooking w/gas. But he
> doesn't, so it's his opinion.

I don't have a receipt for the car I bought in 1996, but I know it cost $25K. According to you that is an opinion. Ridiculous

Recollections are not opinions. Do you know what the address of the house you lived in when you were 15 is? Is that an opinion?


> BTW, your reliance on ad hominem attacks makes you
> look weak.

They aren't ad hominem attacks. They are facts. You really are stupid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: you are grasping ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:38PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> subborn and stupid you be Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So, sworn statements in court are "opinions"?
> > Wow, fucking wow you are an idiot.
>
> Mr. Walters was under oath when he made these
> statements? Gee, I missed where that was stated
> in the article.

No, but according to your warped view, recollection is an opinion? What town did you live in when you were 15?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Reffer ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:42PM

There's a big difference from "what I thought happened" and the facts of what ACTUALLY happened.

It maybe a fact that I recalled wrong, but that doesn't mean what I said was accurate and the facts of the situation.

Ex:
What happened?

"A big pink elephant ran into the intersection and cause the accident."

That doesn't mean the facts are a big pink elephant caused the accident.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Mr. Webster ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:44PM

Reffer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's a big difference from "what I thought
> happened" and the facts of what ACTUALLY
> happened.
>
> It maybe a fact that I recalled wrong, but that
> doesn't mean what I said was accurate and the
> facts of the situation.
>
> Ex:
> What happened?
>
> "A big pink elephant ran into the intersection and
> cause the accident."
>
> That doesn't mean the facts are a big pink
> elephant caused the accident.


And so, therefore, it is an opinion? You need a dictionary too.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: 3 people ()
Date: November 29, 2012 03:46PM

Reffer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's a big difference from "what I thought
> happened" and the facts of what ACTUALLY
> happened.
>
> It maybe a fact that I recalled wrong, but that
> doesn't mean what I said was accurate and the
> facts of the situation.
>
> Ex:
> What happened?
>
> "A big pink elephant ran into the intersection and
> cause the accident."
>
> That doesn't mean the facts are a big pink
> elephant caused the accident.


Three people are contending the spending is the highest over the past 20 years. Three people with direct access and knowledge of the situation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 04:07PM

3 people Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Three people are contending the spending is the
> highest over the past 20 years. Three people with
> direct access and knowledge of the situation.

How many rightwing nut-jobs believed Mittens would win in a landslide?

Dick Morris: Romney 325, Obama 213
George F. Will: Romney 321, Obama 217
Michael Barone: Romney 315, Obama 223
Dean Chambers: Romney 311, Obama 227
Andrew Beyer: Romney 284, Obama 254
Karl Rove: Romney 279, Obama 259
Ben Domenech: Romney 278, Obama 260
Leslie Sanchez: Romney 275, Obama 263

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: no way you can be this stupid ()
Date: November 29, 2012 04:12PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3 people Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Three people are contending the spending is the
> > highest over the past 20 years. Three people
> with
> > direct access and knowledge of the situation.
>
> How many rightwing nut-jobs believed Mittens would
> win in a landslide?
>
> Dick Morris: Romney 325, Obama 213
> George F. Will: Romney 321, Obama 217
> Michael Barone: Romney 315, Obama 223
> Dean Chambers: Romney 311, Obama 227
> Andrew Beyer: Romney 284, Obama 254
> Karl Rove: Romney 279, Obama 259
> Ben Domenech: Romney 278, Obama 260
> Leslie Sanchez: Romney 275, Obama 263


OMG, you are comparing predictions on events yet to occur with recollections of events in the past? You can't be this stupid. You are just fucking around now, right? Please tell me you aren't serious?

What city did you live in when you were 15?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 04:21PM

no way you can be this stupid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMG, you are comparing predictions on events yet
> to occur with recollections of events in the past?
> You can't be this stupid. You are just fucking
> around now, right? Please tell me you aren't
> serious?

Your repetitive use of ad hominem attacks serves to highlight the weakness of your arguments.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: answer the question ()
Date: November 29, 2012 04:26PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no way you can be this stupid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OMG, you are comparing predictions on events
> yet
> > to occur with recollections of events in the
> past?
> > You can't be this stupid. You are just
> fucking
> > around now, right? Please tell me you aren't
> > serious?
>
> Your repetitive use of ad hominem attacks serves
> to highlight the weakness of your arguments.


No, it serves to comntinually point out you are stupid. They aren't ad hominem, they are observations of facts. Are you seriously comparing predictions on events yet to occur with recollections of events in the past? This is your "strong" argument? Answer the question.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 04:38PM

We've spent more than enough time down your little rabbit hole.

The truth is, that article from the Washington Examiner is rife with unsubstantiated opinions which have no basis in fact.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: answer it up ()
Date: November 29, 2012 04:44PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We've spent more than enough time down your little
> rabbit hole.

So, you won't answer two very simple questions. That is very telling. Why won't you admit that you are comparing predictions on events yet to occur with recollections of events in the past as proof of your so called "strong" argument? Why won't you tell us where you lived when you were 15?

> The truth is, that article from the Washington
> Examiner is rife with unsubstantiated opinions
> which have no basis in fact.

Nope. The truth is that a recollection from an involved party is in fact a fact no matter how much nonsense you will spew. It is substantiated by the recollection of no less than three individuals with first hand knowledge of all the relevant facts.

I hope Santa brings you that dictionary. You sure do need it.

It is good to see you are giving up though. You won't continue to look so stupid (in this thread).

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: boomerang ()
Date: November 29, 2012 04:47PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We've spent more than enough time down your little
> rabbit hole.
>
> The truth is, that article from the Washington
> Examiner is rife with unsubstantiated opinions
> which have no basis in fact.


None of which changes the FACTS as presented, as much as you've unsuccessfully tried to deflect from them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 05:03PM

The truth is, that article from the Washington Examiner is rife with unsubstantiated opinions which have no basis in fact.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: your idiocy is unparalleled ()
Date: November 29, 2012 05:28PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth is, that article from the Washington
> Examiner is rife with unsubstantiated opinions
> which have no basis in fact.


Nope. The truth is that a recollection from an involved party is in fact a fact no matter how much nonsense you will spew. It is substantiated by the recollection of no less than three individuals with first hand knowledge of all the relevant facts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 29, 2012 05:33PM

your idiocy is unparalleled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope. The truth is that a recollection from an
> involved party is in fact a fact no matter how
> much nonsense you will spew. It is substantiated
> by the recollection of no less than three
> individuals with first hand knowledge of all the
> relevant facts.

It is quite telling that you cannot discern opinion from fact.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: facts are not opinions ()
Date: November 29, 2012 05:48PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> your idiocy is unparalleled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nope. The truth is that a recollection from an
> > involved party is in fact a fact no matter how
> > much nonsense you will spew. It is
> substantiated
> > by the recollection of no less than three
> > individuals with first hand knowledge of all
> the
> > relevant facts.
>
> It is quite telling that you cannot discern
> opinion from fact.


It is quite telling that you don't know the definition of either. Recollection is not an opinion. Do you recall where you lived when you were 15? If so, is that an opinion?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Atom ()
Date: November 29, 2012 06:07PM

Thank you,

Jeff Bridges in the Contender.

Great flick it gets the Atom approval.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Fact Checker . ()
Date: November 29, 2012 06:17PM

While you two bicker about the definition of "is" or "opinion" let's just look at the numbers:

Quote

Gray doesn’t say where he came up with this number, but one presumes it comes from the Federal Budget. It’s a lot of money, of course, and it’s caused no small degree of outrage on conservative blogs. There’s just one problem, Gray’s assertion that costs associated with the Presidency have “tremendously” increased since Obama took office simply isn’t true.

To establish that, we need only look at a paper produced by the Brookings Institution’s Bradley Patterson [PDF] in which, in one chapter, he lays out the question of what it costs to run the White House. The first point Patterson notes is that this isn’t an easy question to answer:

Patterson attempted to do that for the Fiscal Year 2008 budget and came up with a figure of $1,592,875,254. This does not include classified outlays for things such as Air Force One. One assumes that the figured that Gray came up with also omits these classified figures. The first thing that jumps out, of course, is that the cost that Patterson came up with for Fiscal Year 2008, when Bush was President, is more than the figure that Gray provides. Since we don’t know exactly how Gray calculated his figures, we can’t say that this ends the debate since he could have left off items that Patterson included, which would be odd since he seems to have started out with the assumption that the President dramatically increased the cost of the Presidency. Nonetheless, it seems rather obvious from comparing these two figures that the assertion that the costs to the taxpayer associated with the Presidency have increased “tremendously” under President Obama are, quite simply, wrong.

There is, perhaps, a decent argument to be made that our Presidents live in far too much luxury, and far too much of a pampered bubble of privilege. Things have been that way, however, for many decades now both because of the manner in which the increase in the power of the Presidency has lent the office a more regal air and because of the security bubble that has enveloped the Presidency and anyone associated in the wake of the Kennedy Assassination and the various assassination attempts that have taken place since then. These are legitimate issues worthy of discussion, but trying to frame this in a partisan manner simply doesn’t conform to the facts. We spend a lot of money on the Presidency, we have been doing that for quite a long time, and there’s no evidence at all that this is a phenomenon unique to the Obama Administration.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/the-presidency-costs-taxpayers-a-lot-but-thats-not-obamas-fault/

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Trumped Up ()
Date: November 29, 2012 11:47PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We've spent more than enough time down your little
> rabbit hole.
>
> The truth is, that article from the Washington
> Examiner is rife with unsubstantiated opinions
> which have no basis in fact.

+1, Next the guy is guy to start reciting RUSH as fact.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Physical Cliff ()
Date: November 30, 2012 07:28AM

Why can't Obama go to Ben's Chili Bowl and then take in "A Tuna Xmas" at Ford's Theatre and on Christmas day show up at SOME and help out

I's the Magic Man

Whats the deal with the wife's eyebrows?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 30, 2012 08:56AM

Dohhs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > IOW, you can't argue the facts. lol
> >
> > That hit piece was rife with unsubstantiated
> > opinions. Obviously, facts are not The
> Washington
> > Examiner's strong suit.
>
>
> Ahhh... OK. $969,793 for a single dinner is an
> 'opinion.' Got it.
>
> lmao

Don't bother. As I predicted, facts mean nothing. That's why I didn't bother.

Some people want to worship at the alter of Obama, and don't care that the Earth isn't actually 7000 years old.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 30, 2012 09:11AM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We've spent more than enough time down your little
> rabbit hole.
>
> The truth is, that article from the Washington
> Examiner is rife with unsubstantiated opinions
> which have no basis in fact.

Ah, the irony. Now you use YOUR opinion to make a statement of fact. Talk about calling the Kettle, Obama!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 30, 2012 10:44AM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dohhs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Doh Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > IOW, you can't argue the facts. lol
> > >
> > > That hit piece was rife with unsubstantiated
> > > opinions. Obviously, facts are not The
> > Washington
> > > Examiner's strong suit.
> >
> >
> > Ahhh... OK. $969,793 for a single dinner is an
> > 'opinion.' Got it.

I identified seven statements in the WE article that are unsubstantiated opinions. Your response was to point to the one hard number in the entire article.

Do you believe that indetifying a single hard number proves that the entire article is factual?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: keep digging ()
Date: November 30, 2012 10:53AM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dohhs Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Doh Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > IOW, you can't argue the facts. lol
> > > >
> > > > That hit piece was rife with
> unsubstantiated
> > > > opinions. Obviously, facts are not The
> > > Washington
> > > > Examiner's strong suit.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ahhh... OK. $969,793 for a single dinner is
> an
> > > 'opinion.' Got it.
>
> I identified seven statements in the WE article
> that are unsubstantiated opinions. Your response
> was to point to the one hard number in the entire
> article.

They are substantiated by no less than the recollection of three individuals. Recollection is NOT an opinion. Do you recall what you had for dinner last night? Is that an opinion.

For you:

http://www.amazon.com/Merriam-Websters-Collegiate-Dictionary-Merriam-Webster/dp/0877797099

Add it to your wish list.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 30, 2012 11:04AM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dohhs Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Doh Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > IOW, you can't argue the facts. lol
> > > >
> > > > That hit piece was rife with
> unsubstantiated
> > > > opinions. Obviously, facts are not The
> > > Washington
> > > > Examiner's strong suit.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ahhh... OK. $969,793 for a single dinner is
> an
> > > 'opinion.' Got it.
>
> I identified seven statements in the WE article
> that are unsubstantiated opinions. Your response
> was to point to the one hard number in the entire
> article.
>
> Do you believe that indetifying a single hard
> number proves that the entire article is factual?

I didn't post that.

But I will answer the question. "A single hard number", is still a fact that you don't acknowledge. That is why I didn't bother in the first place. Facts mean nothing to you.

Just because you can cherry pick what you call "opinions" out of that article doesn't invalidate the hard numbers the writer provided to substantiate the claim.

If I say that the Ford Pinto is a deathtrap waiting to happen, and then provide the numbers on how dangerous the Pinto is, how many people it killed and the resultant lawsuits it caused and settled on, it doesn't invalidate the claim because I said "that the Pinto is a deathtrap"!

As I predicted, someone gave you the data you asked for and it still means nothing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 30, 2012 11:24AM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I say that the Ford Pinto is a deathtrap
> waiting to happen, and then provide the numbers on
> how dangerous the Pinto is, how many people it
> killed and the resultant lawsuits it caused and
> settled on, it doesn't invalidate the claim
> because I said "that the Pinto is a deathtrap"!

Thanks for this great example of the difference between fact & opinion.

If you provide the numbers on how dangerous the Pinto is, how many people it killed and the resultant lawsuits it caused and settled on, those are facts.

If you say; "The Ford Pinto is a deathtrap waiting to happen", that's your opinion.

Do you see the difference?

If you provide evidence that the cost of one of President Obama's White House State dinners exceeded those of his predecessor by 25%, that's a fact.

If you say; "President Obama spent far more lavishly on White House state dinners than previous chief executives", that an opinion.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: GetMath ()
Date: November 30, 2012 11:30AM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I say that the Ford Pinto is a deathtrap
> > waiting to happen, and then provide the numbers
> on
> > how dangerous the Pinto is, how many people it
> > killed and the resultant lawsuits it caused and
> > settled on, it doesn't invalidate the claim
> > because I said "that the Pinto is a deathtrap"!
>
> Thanks for this great example of the difference
> between fact & opinion.
>
> If you provide the numbers on how dangerous the
> Pinto is, how many people it killed and the
> resultant lawsuits it caused and settled on, those
> are facts.
>
> If you say; "The Ford Pinto is a deathtrap waiting
> to happen", that's your opinion.
>
> Do you see the difference?
>
> If you provide evidence that the cost of one of
> President Obama's White House State dinners
> exceeded those of his predecessor by 25%, that's a
> fact.
>
> If you say; "President Obama spent far more
> lavishly on White House state dinners than
> previous chief executives", that an opinion.

SIGH....From the article...

"But current and former government officials said the documents obtained by The Examiner point to an unprecedented upsurge in White House spending on such events.

The Obama extravaganza two years ago for Mexican President Felipe Calderon, which included a performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793, or more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents show.

The Calderon dinner was held on the South Lawn in a massive tent adorned with decorated walls, hanging chandeliers, carpeting and a stage for Beyonce's performance.

Guests rode private trolley cars from the White House to the tent. Celebrity guest chef Rick Bayless from Chicago’s Topolobampo restaurant was imported to prepare Oaxacan black mole, black bean tamalon and grilled green beans.

The dinner for the prime minister of India -- which was famously crashed by Virginia couple Michaele and Tareq Salahi -- cost nearly half a million dollars. Dinners for Chinese President Hu Jintao and British Prime Minister David Cameron were of the same level of extravagance.

A knowledgeable government official who made the documents available to The Examiner said the extravagant spending seemed unfair with so many Americans out of work."

Are you saying they are lying about "government officials" and documents provided to substantiate his opinion are fake?

You were out of gas a long time ago. Fortunate for you since you are in a Ford Pinto.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: November 30, 2012 11:44AM

Every president gets criticized for stuff like this...

I didn't get the fuss over George Bush going places and golfing all the time.

I don't get the fuss over Obama visiting his childhood home, Hawaii.

 

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: November 30, 2012 11:45AM

Presidents travel and its expensive to protect them.. simple.

 

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: clock ()
Date: November 30, 2012 12:04PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clock Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > unsubstantiated opinions?
>
>
> Is reading comprehension a challenge for you?


No, but it seems to be for you.

Unsubstantiated opinions????

Are you really this uneducated?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: answer up ()
Date: November 30, 2012 12:34PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I say that the Ford Pinto is a deathtrap
> > waiting to happen, and then provide the numbers
> on
> > how dangerous the Pinto is, how many people it
> > killed and the resultant lawsuits it caused and
> > settled on, it doesn't invalidate the claim
> > because I said "that the Pinto is a deathtrap"!
>
> Thanks for this great example of the difference
> between fact & opinion.
>
> If you provide the numbers on how dangerous the
> Pinto is, how many people it killed and the
> resultant lawsuits it caused and settled on, those
> are facts.
>
> If you say; "The Ford Pinto is a deathtrap waiting
> to happen", that's your opinion.
>
> Do you see the difference?
>
> If you provide evidence that the cost of one of
> President Obama's White House State dinners
> exceeded those of his predecessor by 25%, that's a
> fact.
>
> If you say; "President Obama spent far more
> lavishly on White House state dinners than
> previous chief executives", that an opinion.


Do you recall what you had for dinner last night? If so, according to you, that is an opinion.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 30, 2012 12:52PM

GetMath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "But current and former government officials said
> the documents obtained by The Examiner point to an
> unprecedented upsurge in White House spending on
> such events.

That documents were obtained by The Examiner is a fact. It is the OPINION of the "current and former government officials" that those documents point to an unprecedented upsurge in White House spending on such events

> The Obama extravaganza two years ago for Mexican
> President Felipe Calderon, which included a
> performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793, or
> more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents
> show.

That the dinner for Mexican President Felipe Calderon was held two years ago, cost $969,793, or more than $4,700 per attendee, and Beyonce performed, are facts.

That it was an "extravaganza" is an opinion.

> The Calderon dinner was held on the South Lawn in
> a massive tent adorned with decorated walls,
> hanging chandeliers, carpeting and a stage for
> Beyonce's performance.
>
> Guests rode private trolley cars from the White
> House to the tent. Celebrity guest chef Rick
> Bayless from Chicago’s Topolobampo restaurant
> was imported to prepare Oaxacan black mole, black
> bean tamalon and grilled green beans.

We can presume these are facts as well.

> The dinner for the prime minister of India --
> which was famously crashed by Virginia couple
> Michaele and Tareq Salahi -- cost nearly half a
> million dollars.

If it's true, this is a fact.

> Dinners for Chinese President Hu
> Jintao and British Prime Minister David Cameron
> were of the same level of extravagance.

That these dinners occurred is a fact. That they were "extravagant" is an opinion.

> A knowledgeable government official who made the
> documents available to The Examiner said the
> extravagant spending seemed unfair with so many
> Americans out of work."

That the "knowledgeable government official" made the documents available to The Examiner is a fact. S/he expressed an opinion when saying that the extravagant spending seemed unfair with so many Americans out of work.

Really, this isn't that difficult to understand. There are facts and there are opinions. Opinions are often based upon facts, but are not themselves facts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: not difficult at all ()
Date: November 30, 2012 01:04PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "But current and former government officials
> said
> > the documents obtained by The Examiner point to
> an
> > unprecedented upsurge in White House spending
> on
> > such events.
>
> That documents were obtained by The Examiner is a
> fact. It is the OPINION of the "current and
> former government officials" that those documents
> point to an unprecedented upsurge in White House
> spending on such events

No, that is a fact supported by documents and recollection. You are correct on one thing though. it isn't that difficult to understand which makes me wonder just how stupid you are.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 30, 2012 01:32PM

not difficult at all Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GetMath Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > "But current and former government officials
> > said
> > > the documents obtained by The Examiner point
> to
> > an
> > > unprecedented upsurge in White House spending
> > on
> > > such events.
> >
> > That documents were obtained by The Examiner is
> a
> > fact. It is the OPINION of the "current and
> > former government officials" that those
> documents
> > point to an unprecedented upsurge in White
> House
> > spending on such events
>
> No, that is a fact supported by documents and
> recollection.

Nope. There are facts and there are opinions.

That documents were obtained by The Examiner is a fact.

That the documents, "point to an unprecedented upsurge in White House spending on such events" is an opinion.

Opinions are often based upon facts, but are not themselves facts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: get the dictionary ()
Date: November 30, 2012 01:38PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That documents were obtained by The Examiner is a
> fact.
>
> That the documents, "point to an unprecedented
> upsurge in White House spending on such events" is
> an opinion.

No, it is either a fact or a lie. There is no room for opinion. "unprecedented" has a definition. What does it mean? having no precedent : novel, unexampled

"Upsurge" has a definition. What does it mean? a rapid or sudden rise.

Either the documents show an unexampled sudden rise in spending or they don't. There is no room for opinion.

> Opinions are often based upon facts, but are not
> themselves facts.

And there is no opinion expressed here. Facts are presented and supported with other facts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 30, 2012 01:55PM

get the dictionary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, it is either a fact or a lie. There is no
> room for opinion. "unprecedented" has a
> definition. What does it mean? having no
> precedent : novel, unexampled
>
> "Upsurge" has a definition. What does it mean? a
> rapid or sudden rise.
>
> Either the documents show an unexampled sudden
> rise in spending or they don't. There is no room
> for opinion.

That's ridiculous. What is the objective measure of "an unexampled sudden rise in spending"? 10%, 30%, 50%? Over what time period? Two years? Four years? Eight years?

That the documents point to an unprecedented upsurge in White House spending is this person's opinion; it’s what s/he believes. It is simply not a fact.

If the document showed a 25% increase, that's a fact. That this person thinks a 25% increase represents an "unprecedented upsurge" his/her opinion.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: wrong again, dummy ()
Date: November 30, 2012 02:08PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> get the dictionary Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, it is either a fact or a lie. There is no
> > room for opinion. "unprecedented" has a
> > definition. What does it mean? having no
> > precedent : novel, unexampled
> >
> > "Upsurge" has a definition. What does it mean?
> a
> > rapid or sudden rise.
> >
> > Either the documents show an unexampled sudden
> > rise in spending or they don't. There is no
> room
> > for opinion.
>
> That's ridiculous. What is the objective measure
> of "an unexampled sudden rise in spending"? 10%,
> 30%, 50%? Over what time period? Two years?
> Four years? Eight years?

The objective measure you ask? It can be very simply ascertained. It is an increase in spending larger than any other previous increase in spending over a period of time shorter than the previous largest increase in spending.

Again, this isn't hard.

Are you really this stupid, or are you just so stubbornly dug in?

> That the documents point to an unprecedented
> upsurge in White House spending is this person's
> opinion; it’s what s/he believes. It is simply
> not a fact.

No, the document apparently points to a measurable increase that is unprecedented.

> If the document showed a 25% increase, that's a
> fact. That this person thinks a 25% increase
> represents an "unprecedented upsurge" his/her
> opinion.

No. Using your example, if there had never been a 25% increase in these types of events, it would, in FACT, be unprecendented. If I give you $10 a week for two years, then all of a sudden, I give you $20 a week, that is an unprecedented upsurge in my giving? Correct? Is that an opinion or a fact?

Don't respond if you can't answer the questions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: yes to both ()
Date: November 30, 2012 02:31PM

wrong again, dummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Are you really this stupid, or are you just so
> stubbornly dug in?

Its a combination of both. Weseal probably is mentally ill but if its something that Obama did she thinks it was perfect. She could find her husband in bed with Obama and instead of being mad would be turned on and want to know all the details of what it was like

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: The Puzzler ()
Date: November 30, 2012 02:40PM

Wasn't Felipe Calderon the drug king-pin that Crockett and Tubbs killed on "Miami Vice"?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 30, 2012 02:52PM

wrong again, dummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > That the documents point to an unprecedented
> > upsurge in White House spending is this
> person's
> > opinion; it’s what s/he believes. It is
> simply
> > not a fact.
>
> No, the document apparently points to a measurable
> increase that is unprecedented.

Certainly it is apparent to him, because it's his opinion.

> > If the document showed a 25% increase, that's a
> > fact. That this person thinks a 25% increase
> > represents an "unprecedented upsurge" his/her
> > opinion.
>
> No. Using your example, if there had never been a
> 25% increase in these types of events, it would,
> in FACT, be unprecendented. If I give you $10 a
> week for two years, then all of a sudden, I give
> you $20 a week, that is an unprecedented upsurge
> in my giving? Correct? Is that an opinion or a
> fact?

You're saying that the magnitude of the increase is immaterial. So as long as the increase is larger over a shorter period of time than occurred previously, it's "an unexampled sudden rise in spending". For example, if the largest previous increase in spending had been 10% over ten years, then a increase of 11% over nine years would represent "an unexampled sudden rise in spending".

Therefore, costs rising with inflation would represent "an unexampled sudden rise in spending". Gee, I got the impression from the article that President Obama's White House State dinners cost WAY more than those of his predecessors. It's comforting to know its just inflation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Twatley McMittens ()
Date: November 30, 2012 02:54PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You're saying that the magnitude of the increase
> is immaterial. So as long as the increase is
> larger over a shorter period of time than occurred
> previously, it's "an unexampled sudden rise in
> spending". For example, if the largest previous
> increase in spending had been 10% over ten years,
> then a increase of 11% over nine years would
> represent "an unexampled sudden rise in
> spending".
>
> Therefore, costs rising with inflation would
> represent "an unexampled sudden rise in spending".
> Gee, I got the impression from the article that
> President Obama's White House State dinners cost
> WAY more than those of his predecessors. It's
> comforting to know its just inflation.


Did inflation roughly double in recent years? lol

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Opinionated Facts ()
Date: November 30, 2012 03:02PM

You guys need an entirely separate forum to debate the opinions you have about facts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Date: November 30, 2012 03:16PM

Thanks to my many anonymous friends here on FFU, I now understand that any increase in White House spending, no matter how small, represents an "unprecedented upsurge".

I am no longer concerned.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: still need that dictionary ()
Date: November 30, 2012 03:26PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You're saying that the magnitude of the increase
> is immaterial.

I am saying that in order for the statement to be an opinion, it would need to be NOT based in fact. Because it is based in fact, it is a fact. Again, not that difficult

> So as long as the increase is
> larger over a shorter period of time than occurred
> previously, it's "an unexampled sudden rise in
> spending". For example, if the largest previous
> increase in spending had been 10% over ten years,
> then a increase of 11% over nine years would
> represent "an unexampled sudden rise in
> spending".

That isn't the case here. The "facts" that you have admitted to, rebut that assertion.

> Therefore, costs rising with inflation would
> represent "an unexampled sudden rise in spending".
> Gee, I got the impression from the article that
> President Obama's White House State dinners cost
> WAY more than those of his predecessors. It's
> comforting to know its just inflation.

More logical fallacies from you. Not really surprising, though.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: still stupid ()
Date: November 30, 2012 03:26PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to my many anonymous friends here on FFU, I
> now understand that any increase in White House
> spending, no matter how small, represents an
> "unprecedented upsurge".

That would be an inaccurate conclusion based upon the evidence given to you.

> I am no longer concerned.


But, you are still stupid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Obama sucks is getting old ()
Date: November 30, 2012 03:27PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to my many anonymous friends here on FFU, I
> now understand that any increase in White House
> spending, no matter how small, represents an
> "unprecedented upsurge".
>
> I am no longer concerned.


Doesn't matter what he does, he's a socialist kenyan america hating communist. Therefore, everything he does is wrong.

Simple minded people are easily manipulated by their favorite cable news channel.

Not worth debating with people who are convinced that Obama wasn't even born in this country, or have suddenly become concerned with government finance after 8 years of telling everybody else to "love it or leave it" when confronted with the same shit during Bush's watch.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: stale tactic ()
Date: November 30, 2012 03:32PM

Obama sucks is getting old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks to my many anonymous friends here on FFU,
> I
> > now understand that any increase in White House
> > spending, no matter how small, represents an
> > "unprecedented upsurge".
> >
> > I am no longer concerned.
>
>
> Doesn't matter what he does, he's a socialist
> kenyan america hating communist. Therefore,
> everything he does is wrong.
>
> Simple minded people are easily manipulated by
> their favorite cable news channel.
>
> Not worth debating with people who are convinced
> that Obama wasn't even born in this country, or
> have suddenly become concerned with government
> finance after 8 years of telling everybody else to
> "love it or leave it" when confronted with the
> same shit during Bush's watch.


When you can't win with facts paint all your opponents as birthers. That is a pretty stale tactic.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Booooooshhh ()
Date: November 30, 2012 03:35PM

Obama sucks is getting old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks to my many anonymous friends here on FFU,
> I
> > now understand that any increase in White House
> > spending, no matter how small, represents an
> > "unprecedented upsurge".
> >
> > I am no longer concerned.
>
>
> Doesn't matter what he does, he's a socialist
> kenyan america hating communist. Therefore,
> everything he does is wrong.
>


What's more tired is the Obamapologists giving him a pass on everything, including much of which they complained about in the case of others.


> Simple minded people are easily manipulated by
> their favorite cable news channel.


Agreed. MSNBC, DailyKos, etc., are simple propaganda machines for simple minds.


>
> Not worth debating with people who are convinced
> that Obama wasn't even born in this country, or
> have suddenly become concerned with government
> finance after 8 years of telling everybody else to
> "love it or leave it" when confronted with the
> same shit during Bush's watch.


George Booooooshhh! Still the mating cry of the Progressive movement. lmao

Actually a lot of us where complaining about exactly the same things way back then.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Lt Col Obvious ()
Date: November 30, 2012 04:13PM

Booooooshhh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's more tired is the Obamapologists giving him
> a pass on everything, including much of which they
> complained about in the case of others.

That's a load of crap.

> Agreed. MSNBC, DailyKos, etc., are simple
> propaganda machines for simple minds.

As are FOX, The Washington Examiner, Breitbart, and 99.9% of talk radio.

> George Booooooshhh! Still the mating cry of the
> Progressive movement. lmao

Your reluctance to admit how hard G.W. Bush fucked this country is understandable.

> Actually a lot of us where complaining about
> exactly the same things way back then.

If so, you went about it REALLY quietly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2012 04:13PM by Lt Col Obvious.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Booooooshhh ()
Date: November 30, 2012 04:27PM

Lt Col Obvious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Booooooshhh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What's more tired is the Obamapologists giving
> him
> > a pass on everything, including much of which
> they
> > complained about in the case of others.
>
> That's a load of crap.


Not at all a load of crap. Hell, I can even pull vids of the Dems criticizing Boooooooosh for exactly the same things that they're doing now. Hypocrites. lol


>
> > Agreed. MSNBC, DailyKos, etc., are simple
> > propaganda machines for simple minds.
>
> As are FOX, The Washington Examiner, Breitbart,
> and 99.9% of talk radio.


Yep. Good to see that you agree that they're all biased and that extends to include NYT, AP, WaPo, etc.


>
> > George Booooooshhh! Still the mating cry of
> the
> > Progressive movement. lmao
>
> Your reluctance to admit how hard G.W. Bush fucked
> this country is understandable.
>

Your reluctance to take responsibility for ANYTHING isn't really.



> > Actually a lot of us where complaining about
> > exactly the same things way back then.
>
> If so, you went about it REALLY
> quietly.


Wasn't quiet at all. There have been many objective folks on both sides who criticized running up the debt to ridiculous levels who were complaining at the time and for many years prior to. Certainly nothing new with Obama. In fact, Clinton and Obama were included in those criticizing Booooooosh for such at the time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Obama plans $4,000,000,000.00 vacation in Hawaii
Posted by: Young Curmudgeon ()
Date: November 30, 2012 05:26PM

Mittens Having Kittens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GetMath Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > While in office, his family pays for
> practically
> > nothing on their own dime.
>
> What president does? Bush? St. Ronnie? Please.

Many of the early presidents did. After they left the White House bankrupt, Congress voted to pay their expenses.

Options: ReplyQuote
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