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US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: ferfux ()
Date: June 20, 2008 10:36AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/19/AR2008061903022.html



for fuck's sake, Its ok to pollute foreign lands but not ours? Technology has come a long way and if, as the article states, we could have 22 years worth of oil reserves from a 5th of our own untapped reserves we should go for it.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 20, 2008 10:50AM

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2008/06/19/AR2008061903022.html
>
>
>
> for fuck's sake, Its ok to pollute foreign lands
> but not ours? Technology has come a long way and
> if, as the article states, we could have 22 years
> worth of oil reserves from a 5th of our own
> untapped reserves we should go for it.


Jesus! What don't you understand??? Oil is an international commodity. It isn't "our own oil." If we drill in ANWR, it may very well be more practical use it in Canada or Russia! If we drill off the coast of Florida, it's just as likely to be used in Mexico, Central America or the Caribbean as it is to be used here! What don't people get about that??

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: ferfux ()
Date: June 20, 2008 11:35AM

its about the price of Oil getting jacked up because of "tight" supplies and we are denying ourselves a huge Supply of oil right in our own territory.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 20, 2008 12:13PM

The cost of a barrel of oil has doubled in one year. Has consumption doubled in one year??? Have supplies been cut in half in one year?

No. Of course not.

In fact, the oil producing countries have all increased production, U.S. consumption has declined for the first time in 20 years and the economies of China and India aren't growing fast enough to explain a doubling in price.

It is going up that much because speculators such as Morgan Stanley are gaming the market. There have been industry analysts on Capitol Hill saying as much. Drilling for oil here won't make a damn bit of difference.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: DeathByCop ()
Date: June 20, 2008 12:25PM

Agreed. I believe all the market speculation is responsible for the current spike in the barrel price. However, emerging markets like China and India will only exacerbate the situation. They say the world population will hit 7 billion by 2012. That means we will have added 1 billion people in just under 12 years. What's scary is that it took the world until about 1800 to reach 1 billion and 1930 to get to 2 billion.


WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cost of a barrel of oil has doubled in one
> year. Has consumption doubled in one year??? Have
> supplies been cut in half in one year?
>
> No. Of course not.
>
> In fact, the oil producing countries have all
> increased production, U.S. consumption has
> declined for the first time in 20 years and the
> economies of China and India aren't growing fast
> enough to explain a doubling in price.
>
> It is going up that much because speculators such
> as Morgan Stanley are gaming the market. There
> have been industry analysts on Capitol Hill saying
> as much. Drilling for oil here won't make a damn
> bit of difference.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 20, 2008 01:52PM

DeathByCop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed. I believe all the market speculation is
> responsible for the current spike in the barrel
> price. However, emerging markets like China and
> India will only exacerbate the situation. They say
> the world population will hit 7 billion by 2012.
> That means we will have added 1 billion people in
> just under 12 years. What's scary is that it took
> the world until about 1800 to reach 1 billion and
> 1930 to get to 2 billion.
>
>

Speculation is responsible for about 25% to 50% of the current price of a barrel of oil. Demand does contribute to the rise but shouldn't justify destroying habitat for a few months worth of oil.

The rising price should be viewed in a positive way. In the late 80s and throughout the 90s, nobody gave a rat's ass about energy policy because gas was $1 a gallon. Now that it has become a major problem for most people, we are actually exploring viable alternatives to oil and coal.

If you don't think CO2 is a problem, just look at the historic flooding in the Midwest and the loss of beaches along the coasts. Global warming is real and human activity DOES contribute to it. Maybe market forces will help us prevail where common sense has failed.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 20, 2008 07:14PM

The other thing people have to realize is that the republikan party is in it's last dying throws of power...let's hope so at least...and they are taking advantage of the current situation to pay off their debts to friends and relatives.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Eastsider ()
Date: June 20, 2008 11:14PM

You can't point to the flooding in the Midwest and say it was caused by CO2. You have no idea what caused it. These rivers flood occasionally.


WashingToneLocian Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> If you don't think CO2 is a problem, just look at
> the historic flooding in the Midwest and the loss
> of beaches along the coasts. Global warming is
> real and human activity DOES contribute to it.
> Maybe market forces will help us prevail where
> common sense has failed.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: June 21, 2008 11:43AM

Out of at least a few hundred leases granted for "exploring" i.e. drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, only a small handfull are actually being used to explore for oil.

And it is NOT the refinery issue. This "dirty little secret" is that it would be far more profitable to drill in Alaska Wildlife Refuge than in the Gulf. Drilling in the Gulf, with gas above $4.00 a barrell, would be profitable, but not "as profitable" as Alaska.

So if you argument is "drill at home" tell the oil companies to use these leases they are paying for and actually drill at home and stop hoping to win the lottery by getting permission to drill in ANWR.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 21, 2008 05:05PM

Based on results of a number of studies, the U.S. federal government receives one of the lowest government takes in the world.

In fiscal year 2006, oil and gas companies received over $77 billion from the sale of oil and gas produced from federal lands and waters, and the Department of the Interior's Minerals Management Service (MMS) reported that these companies paid the federal government about $10 billion in oil and gas royalties.

http://gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-07-676R

The idiots supporting this intiiative are the same 70% of the people who supported Bush's Iraq War. I guess you can fool most of the people all of the time.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 21, 2008 06:13PM

Eastsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can't point to the flooding in the Midwest and
> say it was caused by CO2. You have no idea what
> caused it. These rivers flood occasionally.
>
>

CO2 at historically high levels. Flood waters at twice the historic level (double the 100 year flood plain).

It's pretty damn suspicious.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: veedub ()
Date: June 22, 2008 12:58PM

Analysts always point out that increasing North American drilling activity won't have much effect on the price of oil. They're correct from a market fundamentals standpoint. But they fail to consider the psychological effect on speculators. The prospect of a fairly major increase in supply will make them more reluctant to continue to go "all in" on futures.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 23, 2008 12:29PM

veedub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
But they fail to consider
> the psychological effect on speculators. The
> prospect of a fairly major increase in supply will
> make them more reluctant to continue to go "all
> in" on futures.


Uh, so would throwing their asses in prison for gaming the market.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: I say drill ()
Date: June 25, 2008 07:52AM

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cost of a barrel of oil has doubled in one
> year. Has consumption doubled in one year??? Have
> supplies been cut in half in one year?
>
> No. Of course not.

That isn't how petroleum pricing (or any commodity for that matter) works. You don't need a doubling in demand to see a doubling or even tripling in price. All you need is actual demand to inch closer to actual supply. With little wiggle room, prices go up drastically. Conversely, you don't need an 80% drop in demand or unprecedented surge in supply to see prices hit rock bottom -- like when they hit $8/barrel in 1999. You just need a bit more wiggle room than normally.

> In fact, the oil producing countries have all
> increased production, U.S. consumption has
> declined for the first time in 20 years and the
> economies of China and India aren't growing fast
> enough to explain a doubling in price.

The decline in 2006 was so minimal as to be a mere blip. We are staying roughly on pace of where we used to be. As mentioned earlier, when you tighten the slack so to speak between actual supply and actual demand, that can explain a doubling in price.

> It is going up that much because speculators such
> as Morgan Stanley are gaming the market. There
> have been industry analysts on Capitol Hill saying
> as much. Drilling for oil here won't make a damn
> bit of difference.

Speculation is a big part of it, but addressing only speculation is like only giving pain medicine to a cancer patient. Speculation is a symptom of a larger problem.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 25, 2008 10:00AM

I say drill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> That isn't how petroleum pricing (or any commodity
> for that matter) works. You don't need a doubling
> in demand to see a doubling or even tripling in
> price. All you need is actual demand to inch
> closer to actual supply. With little wiggle room,
> prices go up drastically. Conversely, you don't
> need an 80% drop in demand or unprecedented surge
> in supply to see prices hit rock bottom -- like
> when they hit $8/barrel in 1999. You just need a
> bit more wiggle room than normally.

Going from $8 a barrel to $130+ a barrel has nothing to do with actual supply and demand. The market may have been artificially low before, but it is obviously artificially high now. I could buy the idea of oil really being at $70 or $80 a barrel. But having oil go from $45 to $130+ in 18 months has nothing to do with actual supply and demand.

>

>
> The decline in 2006 was so minimal as to be a mere
> blip. We are staying roughly on pace of where we
> used to be. As mentioned earlier, when you
> tighten the slack so to speak between actual
> supply and actual demand, that can explain a
> doubling in price.

The U.S. is the world's largest consumer of energy. If consumption is down between 2% and 10%, as has been reported, it would more than offset any additional production that would come online as a result of ANWR or offshore drilling near Florida. In addition, the oil companies already have leases to drill offshore that they aren't using. Why? Because it is cheaper to drill in ANWR than offshore (even in Florida). This is all a game being played by the oil companies to open up the reserve.


>
> Speculation is a big part of it, but addressing
> only speculation is like only giving pain medicine
> to a cancer patient. Speculation is a symptom of
> a larger problem.


Speculation caused a house worth $200K in 2002 to be worth $600K in 2005 and $300K today. Speculation caused the Dow to be near 12,000 in 2000, near 7,000 in 2001 and back to 12,000 today.

Speculation, in this case, IS the cancer. Bad diet, lack of exercise, etc, may be contributing factors, but the actual disease is wild, out of control speculation.

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.
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: June 25, 2008 12:24PM

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 03:20AM by Alias.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: ferfux ()
Date: June 27, 2008 10:55AM

Crude oil futures reached a record high of $140 a barrel in New York trading after the head of OPEC projected that prices could hit $170 this summer, prompting concern that energy prices will continue to pressure consumers and drag down the already sluggish economy.


fuckin self fulfilling prophesy

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 27, 2008 11:03AM

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Professor WashingToneLocian once again displays
> his brilliance:
>
> "If you don't think CO2 is a problem, just look at
> the historic flooding in the Midwest and the loss
> of beaches along the coasts."
>
> He reminds me of the sheep in the following
> video.
>
>
> BTW, not only should we be drilling, we should be
> investing in nuclear power.

Good job posting this the same day scientists are predicting the North Pole may be ice free for the first time in human history this summer.

As for H2O, too much of anything can be bad for the environment. For instance, if Antarctica continues to melt at its current rate, by the time your grandkids are grown, much of Delmarva, Virginia Beach, and the Eastern Shore could be underwater. It will be interesting to see the Tidal Basin if there is five to ten more feet of water in the Potomac.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Lurker.. ()
Date: June 27, 2008 11:29AM

Fuck oil.

We make NASA work on a car that doesn't use oil instead of driving around Mars.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 27, 2008 11:47AM

Lurker.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuck oil.
>
> We make NASA work on a car that doesn't use oil
> instead of driving around Mars.


I'm sure with all the money DoD and DARPA get, the Pentagon has already developed one and it is sitting in some shed at some base somewhere.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: June 27, 2008 12:51PM

Lurker.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuck oil.
>
> We make NASA work on a car that doesn't use oil
> instead of driving around Mars.



shall we hold them all at gun point? :)


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: June 27, 2008 01:17PM

Both agencies (NASA and DARPA) have active tech transfer programs. I'm sure they have partnered with the auto industry. I doubt they're holding out on technology, Congress and OMB love to see technology spin-outs come out of those programs.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: June 29, 2008 08:45PM

/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 05:42PM by Alias.

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s
Posted by: inkahootz ()
Date: June 29, 2008 09:04PM

s



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2010 09:11PM by inkahootz.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: June 29, 2008 10:33PM

/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 05:43PM by Alias.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: June 29, 2008 10:45PM

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL about driving around on Mars. lol, lol
>
> But, I think it's more freakin 'classic' that
> Vince, the doom and gloom specialist, is
> predicting the future disasters should the
> Antarctic continue to melt at its current pace,
> when in reality, it’s not melting, but rather,
> increasing its ice volume.


Please use cites when pulling something out of your ass.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Iceman ()
Date: June 30, 2008 12:25AM

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please use cites when pulling something out of
> your ass.

Well, the NASA Earth Observatory did record a record refreeze of Arctic Ice, but it was preceded by a record melting. All in all it is a minimal growth, but growth nonetheless.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: June 30, 2008 02:06AM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 05:43PM by Alias.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Spacy ()
Date: July 04, 2008 09:31PM

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lurker.. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fuck oil.
> >
> > We make NASA work on a car that doesn't use oil
> > instead of driving around Mars.
>
>
> I'm sure with all the money DoD and DARPA get, the
> Pentagon has already developed one and it is
> sitting in some shed at some base somewhere.

Congress authorized a new agency to do things
like this; it's called ARPA-E (for energy).
The current administration did not want to fund it.
The incoming administration (either one) will.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: July 08, 2008 08:35PM

Oil man T. Boone Pickens says we can't drill our way out of this mess. We need alternative energy...


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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Natural Gas Requires a Drill, Dumbass ()
Date: July 08, 2008 09:22PM

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oil man T. Boone Pickens says we can't drill our
> way out of this mess. We need alternative
> energy...
>
>

The other part of the plan is switching to natural gas. How do you get that without drilling? WashingToneLocian magic fairy dust?

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: July 08, 2008 09:50PM

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oil man T. Boone Pickens says we can't drill our
> way out of this mess. We need alternative
> energy...


alternative energy? perhaps. wind, solar, or geothermal power? definitely not. nuclear power seems most viable at the moment. i think that ultimately an organic plant that can efficiently separate hydrogen and oxygen would be a good solution for hydrogen based combustion engines.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: July 09, 2008 11:23AM

Natural Gas Requires a Drill, Dumbass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingToneLocian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oil man T. Boone Pickens says we can't drill
> our
> > way out of this mess. We need alternative
> > energy...
> >
> >
>
> The other part of the plan is switching to natural
> gas. How do you get that without drilling?
> WashingToneLocian magic fairy dust?


Pickens says more drilling isn't the answer. If you look at the video that explains Pickens plan, you take existing levels of natural gas and switch it over to cars, replacing it with wind power. No significant additional drilling required.

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Re: US should be drilling our own god damned oil
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: July 10, 2008 12:02AM

/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 01:15PM by Alias.

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