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BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 09, 2008 06:48AM

Not Quite...but this is an interesting article on the BBC news website.

It seems The joint report by children's commissioners for all parts of the UK said attitudes towards youngsters were hardening across the country.

The experts said crime committed by children had fallen between 2002 and 2006, but the numbers criminalised had gone up by just over a quarter.

This does have the similar trend as in this country that despite a falling crime rate more people were imprisoned. The areticle doesnt address the racial aspect of the problem...but in a continent that isnt breeding sufficiently to replace themselves I am sure it does have a racial element also.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7443104.stm

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Wrinkle ()
Date: June 09, 2008 07:43AM

There is a certain racial element to it for sure, but not as much as you might think. In the major metro areas (London, Manchester, etc) gangs and racial factors do cause a lot of problems -- but that has always been the case in those places. The growing problem is outside these areas in the smaller town and villages. There has been a big fuss made in the UK about tackling "anti-social behavior" by youths. The government have been putting a real hard push on it, leaning on the police to get the statistics changing. The result is that teenagers are getting arrested for fighting, petty vandalism, etc. Sure, they should punish them somehow, but giving an 18yr old a criminal record for a silly street fight or carving his name on a bench -- that's just wrong. You close so many doors to a kid at that point, and just increase the chance of them escalating their crimes.

England just isn't like it used to be, anymore. For those of you that saw "V for Vendetta", the country is now much closer to that than you might think.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 09, 2008 08:53AM

You know Wrinkle..in our day (I assume you are as old as dirt as I am)..kids could get away with so much. I can personally remember 3 events in my past that today might result in a felony conviction today....and I was a good kid. A few weeks ago someone posted a thread about young adults spray painting government buildings...and because the cost of reparing them exceeded $50k they faced felony charges. That is ridiculous...to virtually ruin a kids life for a non-violent crime just isnt right in my opinion.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Wrinkle ()
Date: June 09, 2008 08:58AM

No, I'm not particularly old at all but things certainly have changed significantly even since I was that age. And I agree -- ruining a kids chances because of a dumb, hot-headed act, is just crazy. There has to be a better way.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Tia2 ()
Date: June 09, 2008 11:04AM

There may be a better way but sometimes a harsh punishment is necessary and it is very upsetting when nothing is done simply because of the age of the person (s) involved:

By Bill Brubaker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 30, 2008; B01



A 17-year-old Fairfax County girl who pleaded guilty in a drunken-driving crash that killed a Leesburg woman was sentenced yesterday to 30 days in a juvenile detention center and ordered to do 500 hours of community service.

Loudoun County juvenile court Judge Pamela L. Brooks suspended the most punitive part of the sentence, which called for the teenager to be detained until September 2011, when she turns 21. Brooks also revoked the girl's driver's license and ordered her to get a job to pay $5,000 in funeral expenses to the victim's family.

The teenager was sent to Loudoun's detention center April 21 after she pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Brooks did not give her any credit for the 38 days she has served.

Kathleen Becker, 59, died instantly the night of Sept. 20 when her van was hit head-on by the teenager's sport-utility vehicle. Becker was returning home from choir practice at a Catholic church in Sterling.

The teenager had been "binge drinking" before and during a football game at Westfield High School, where she was a senior, authorities said. She had left the game in Chantilly drunk and ended up on Route 15 in Loudoun. She had a blood-alcohol level of 0.17, more than twice the 0.08 legal limit for adults under Virginia law, after the crash.

"My options, quite frankly, are not options I am happy with. . . . Frankly, I don't think 30 days is long enough. I don't think 60 days is long enough," Brooks told the teenager, who was shackled around her ankles and dressed in a green detention-center outfit.

Brooks said a state pre-sentencing report concluded that the girl was "not an appropriate candidate" to be sent to a Virginia Department of Juvenile Justice detention facility.

"You are a convicted felon, so you are a criminal," Brooks told the girl, a first-time offender. "But I would not classify you as a hardened criminal."

The Washington Post generally does not name juveniles charged with crimes unless they are charged as adults.

Becker's daughter, Sharon Macielinski, said her family did not want the girl to be locked up for a long period. The teenager will be on supervised probation until she is 21.

In an interview Wednesday, Macielinski said: "We're not looking out for revenge or payback or anything like that. We're looking at: What is best for rehabilitating this individual so other people don't get hurt?"

Yesterday, Loudoun Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Adriana Eberle urged Brooks to hand down a sentence that would deter other teens from drinking. "This is bigger than what is going on inside this courtroom. . . . She should not get the same punishment as a juvenile who commits a grand larceny," she said.

The victim's husband, Henry Becker, asked Brooks to order the girl to pay half of the funeral expenses, which totaled $10,000, from her earnings.

Sobbing, the teenager apologized to Becker's family. "I can't explain how devastated I have been. . . . I can't forgive myself for taking another human life," she said, reading from a statement.

Outside the courtroom, her attorney, Peter D. Greenspun, called the sentence "fair and responsible and appropriate."

Asked where his client obtained the alcohol, Greenspun said: "It came from different sources. Kids get alcohol. There's nothing unique about that. They get it from adults. They get it by stealing. They get it with fake IDs. They get it by 'shoulder tapping,' where they tap an adult going into a 7-Eleven on the shoulder and ask if they can buy them some alcohol."

On the night of the crash, he said, "there was a lot of energy" at Westfield High because its football team was playing rival Chantilly."

"There was a group of kids there who were partying and drinking before the game," he said. "And apparently there were adults who were tailgating at the school and drinking."

Kathleen Becker was a school crossing guard in the 1970s and 1980s at Sterling Elementary School. In recent years, she did volunteer work but spent most of her time caring for a teenage son who has a genetic disorder.

Prosecutors had wanted to try the teenager as an adult. But they were turned down by a Circuit Court judge who ruled that the girl was emotionally and socially immature, had no previous criminal record and had demonstrated "excellence" in school.

Yesterday, Brooks made a prediction before sending the teenager back to the detention center in Leesburg.

"I think this is something that's going to eat at you for a long time," she said.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 09, 2008 03:32PM

Sad case...and I was not refering to situations that end in death or involved violent crime...

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Wrinkle ()
Date: June 09, 2008 06:24PM

Tia2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There may be a better way but sometimes a harsh
> punishment is necessary and it is very upsetting
> when nothing is done simply because of the age of
> the person (s) involved:

Absolutely -- I completely agree. When a death is involved then all bets are off. Punishment needs to be harsh. I was referring more to the stupid stuff that teenagers have always done (petty vandalism, street fight, etc). The police seem to be using that more these days as a means to up their statistics without considering the consequences a criminal record has on a young person. I was thinking that maybe incentives would work e.g. 'get yourself a college degree and we'll clean your record' -- that sort of thing. I think that's too idealistic though.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Tia2 ()
Date: June 11, 2008 02:24PM

Hmmmm

You made me think. It seems that in today's environment, positive reinforcement is the only form of correction allowed - from training your pets, to raising your children...


People are leery about punishing a child at school for fear that the child will interpret the action as being bullied and come back with a gun. People are fearful of reprimanding a child as all of the current studies show that negative comments and actions create a desire to become rebellious and retaliation is inevitable.

Maybe the reason law enforcement officers are being more HARSH on kids committing petty crimes is because they see that someone has to step up to the plate and CORRECT/CURTAIL bad behavior.

Just a thought....

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 11, 2008 06:56PM

Law enforcement officers have only one job...to enforce the laws without prejudice. They should never decide to enforce laws more harshly against any particular group. Neither should laws be passed that result in the arrest of a disproportionate group in a society. Laws are of course a mere reflection of a society..as in the USA society today the solution seems to be lock up the criminal and throw away the key. If that worked I'd be all for it....but it doesnt.

Plus you seem to ignore one fact...all that "today's environment" stuff seems to work. Crime in England is on the down swing...and despite that they imprison their children more. You think this is right? Think again....

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.
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: June 11, 2008 09:27PM

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 02:54AM by Alias.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 11, 2008 11:23PM

please...no lectures. make your point or move on....so, what is your point? Concentrate..you can do more then criticise.

p.s.- say hello to your other alias



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2008 11:25PM by Vince(1).

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.
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:57AM

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 02:52AM by Alias.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 12, 2008 06:55AM

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You just blew your cover.

It isnt easy to do is it? To have a point to your posting.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: lol ()
Date: June 12, 2008 08:43AM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> please...no lectures. make your point or move
> on....so, what is your point? Concentrate..you
> can do more then criticise.
>
> p.s.- say hello to your other alias

An interesting quote, coming from someone whose knee-jerk posting response to any contrarian opinion is "You must be a Bush lover."

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:56PM

lol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > please...no lectures. make your point or move
> > on....so, what is your point? Concentrate..you
> > can do more then criticise.
> >
> > p.s.- say hello to your other alias
>
> An interesting quote, coming from someone whose
> knee-jerk posting response to any contrarian
> opinion is "You must be a Bush lover."


I think I said that once in the 6 months Ive been posting comments here. I do try to make a point when commenting...you might not like my point of view...but it's out there for your enjoyment. I have little tolerance for people who come on here to correct my spelling/gramatics without sticking to the topic and actually making a point. A criticism is not a point of view...even your comment gives no indication as to what you think of the topic or anyone's posting. Is it so diffficult to do that. After all talk is cheap...and that's all this is...cheap talk.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: wahuh ()
Date: June 12, 2008 02:31PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I
> have little tolerance for people who come on here
> to correct my spelling/gramatics without sticking
> to the topic and actually making a point.
> Is it so
> diffficult to do that.

since when does difficult have three 'f's in the middle lol

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 12, 2008 03:57PM

wahuh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I
> > have little tolerance for people who come on
> here
> > to correct my spelling/gramatics without
> sticking
> > to the topic and actually making a point.
> > Is it so
> > diffficult to do that.
>
> since when does difficult have three 'f's in the
> middle lol


Damn! I hate that.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: June 12, 2008 06:08PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have little tolerance for people who come on here
> to correct my spelling/gramatics without sticking
> to the topic and actually making a point.
> Is it so diffficult to do that.


is it too much to ask that you use proper spelling and gramatics or is that too diffficult for you?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 12, 2008 09:17PM

lol...you can critique my spelling and grammar all you want....as long as you make an applicaple point also. Yes..it seems it is to diffficult!

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: June 12, 2008 11:26PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lol...you can critique my spelling and grammar all
> you want....as long as you make an applicaple
> point also.


actually, i dont have to make an applicaple point.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: June 13, 2008 10:05AM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lol...you can critique my spelling and grammar
> all
> > you want....as long as you make an applicaple
> > point also.
>
> actually, i dont have to make an applicaple point.


you seldom do...you seem very happy telling everyone they are off topic...can't spell...they use poor gramatics...blah, blah, blah! But you try to make an applicable topic...when you try to it is usually on some minor point...you seldom look at the big picture.

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Re: BBC Reports 1 in 100 Children in Prison...
Posted by: ferfux ()
Date: June 13, 2008 10:23AM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lol...you can critique my spelling and grammar
> all
> > you want....as long as you make an applicaple
> > point also.
>
> actually, i dont have to make an applicaple point.


can i find your point at the Winchester applicaple blossom festival?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2008 11:53AM by ferfux.

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