I am a bartender that has worked in Reston for a decade. Yes, I am educated beyond high school and am still a bartender at almost 30 years old. This industry has certainly been better to me than any would have been had I pursued a career that pertained to my major. It is very likely that my income exceeds everyone who is reading this post, contrary to the public presumption. In light of this, I feel compelled to address the issue of tipping. Although plenty of the population is aware that tipped employees are paid a minimal amount by their employers. This aids in offsetting the price paid by patrons for various menu items. So why does it seem that the generally accepted norm of at least 20% is not followed?

Let me continue with the following: I am a good bartender. In fact, many have voted me the best in the area. If you received poor service, you were NOT in my bar. So why the cheapness?

Now I will rant: If you are going to go to a bar/restaurant, be sure to take some extra cash so that you can tip the people that are serving. Remember that 15% is no longer the norm and does not make you at all deserving of prompt service in the future. Also, be advised that you may treat a restaurant employee like garbage when you are in their establishment, but be careful of where you go. I know every bartender in Reston (as they all know me) and we do extend courtesies to one another: treat me improperly, I will ensure that you have access to no bar in Reston. We all have grief when it comes to our jobs, but I have absolute faith that no professional has the same severity of issues as those in the hospitality industry. The office rats that plague Reston and its restaurants are among the worst clients to ever "grace" an establishment. It is obvious that most of them do not get out on a regular basis. They are loud and obnoxious, but only after their social security blanket (alcohol) has sufficiently warmed them. They treat the people serving them as socially subordinate, when in all reality, the likelihood is that they are actually lower on the economic and social totem pole. They know that the employment status of the service staff is dependent upon their satisfaction. If a customer issues a complaint, the staff member is certainly at risk of termination. Yet, even when the service is impeccable, many customers choose to tip tiny amounts. Again, I stress, DO NOT GO OUT if you cannot tip.

As a customer, you must recognize your impact on the restaurant business. If you are not ordering something because you are waiting on a table in the dining room, please believe me when I say that you are not wanted at the bar or in the bar area. You are a hindrance and you are counterproductive to the restaurant industry.

As this post will inevitably become too lengthy to be productive, I will digress and wait for responses to engage in dialogue. I will finish by saying that I am not bitter. I am merely expressing frustration on behalf of my fellow bartenders and servers. We are major contributors to the local economy. We are people that, more often than not, have chosen to pursue this way of life. Stereotypically this lifestyle is riddled with strife. The fact is, when used wisely, this industry has excelled us to economic and social success. It must be remembered that we are hard workers that rely on your generosity. If you are unable extend this courtesy, do not expect your rude hand gestures in the future to go recognized immediately in the future. You are not wanted!

Let me ask you this. If your bar is crowded, and you have a group of people come in that have to stand behind the people sitting at the bar...do you acknowledge them? Or do you tend to the customers at the bar? I'm almost 30 yrs old also (28), and have been to many bars in the area. It's been my experience that unless you are a regular, or know the bartender, you are going to get shitty service if the place is busy. I know you are only one person and cannot serve everyone at once, but seriously, I'm not inclined to tip well for shitty service. But since you are one of the best bartenders in the area, I'm sure you dont do that.

IMO bartending is tricky because either you have an older crowd who still thinks tipping 10-15% is ok, or a younger crowd who barely has money for a few beers. I dont think you are the first person to feel shorted. It's part of your profession, if you want to call it that. I'm not quite sure how you think you can prevent shitty tippers from entering other bars, however. Bar patrons are not required to pay over 15%, so you cannot ban them for not tipping well.

Question #2, if your income exceeds anyone else's reading this post, why are you bitching?

youknow,

Damn funny post, I hope that this really is a joke and you are not serious in your sentiment. I will start out by saying that I tip well, exceptionally well. I frequent one or two bars near my home and am on a first name basis with many of the bartenders and they aprreciate my business. In fact, many times, my drink is at my seat when I walk in the door - before I can even sit down.

I have never, nor will I probably ever go to a bar in Reston. So, I can't speak about that area, but I can speak about your attitude. You are a bartender with a college degree that chooses to be a bartender. So what? What does your college degree have to do with anything? I bet there are garbage collectors with college degrees to. I know for a fact that there are home improvement contractors with college degrees. Basically, your degree has no bearing on how much you get tipped.

True, you are providing a service. But, you are not saving lives, keeping people out of jail, or putting out fires. You are not a chemist simply because you mix some liquids together. You are a bartender, keep that in mind. You claim to make more than that of your customers. So, why should they part with more of their cash to make you better off? 20% is the minimum I tip. That being said, 15% is appropriate. I did a little research and found that the norm is considered 15-20%. I think 15% is more than appropriate if you are simply popping bottle caps off and slinging them on the bar. I mean seriously, a specail person could do that.

Oh, and "I will ensure that you have access to no bar in Reston." What a friggen tool you are. You pompous ass. I might actually go to every bar in Reston now one night and not tip anywhere I go!

Get a real job.

What bar do you work at dude?

I have to say that I have run across more servers/bartenders that don't understand they work for tips. If I have good service I will tip at least 20%....Exceptional service 25%. However the majority only deserve 10% if that. I worked in the food service industry so I have sympathy and compassion for them. But most just don't care. I would like to know what restaurant/bar you work at?
1. Are all the bartenders/servers at your place exceptional or is it just you? 2.Are you a good tipper when you go out, even if it's a place outside of Reston?

I used to go to bars like the old Vienna Inn and really enjoyed myself. Since I quit smoking I very rarely go. Drinkers in Reston are very rarely non smokers I find. Once I went to the South Lakes bar but every person there was smoking so I left. I just view sitting next to someone who smokes as a unfortunite event (no offence ment, it's ok if you smoke and tap on your computer)They say Maryland or the District is non smoking, I wonder how that works out drinking wise? But it's too far go go to just stop in for a drink. The only bar that I used to go to in Mclean that is still there is that Chinese bar in McLean but maybe I should post that over in Mclean. I wonder how the tips are over there? When I drank and tiped sometimes I was very generous but sometimes if I am honest, stingy.-Rod

Please forgive my ultra-delayed response. I agree with you: if the service is not deserving of a decent tip, then why do it? I do not believe that poor service should be rewarded. Other responders to my initial post have requested to know my place of employment. This is information I will not disclose. In addition to my fulltime job (bartender), I am a small business owner (albeit in its initial steps). At the risk of sounding uber-arrogant, I do NOT ignore anyone. It does not matter how deep your position is in the bar. However, because you walk in to my establishment does not mean I see dollar signs. There are an abundance of bar in the Reston Town Center. One can go to any of them and purchase a drink. I can assure anyone that at my bar, (regardless of whether I am the bartender working) you will receive hospitable service and you will frequent.

As a separate response to my income inquiry: Question #2, if your income exceeds anyone else's reading this post, why are you bitching?: My implication is that individuals should not disregard the income potential of those people that wait on you. The social stratificiatoin of the United States suggests that those that rely on gratuities on a part of the social class. I stand as an exception to this: I, by being a bartender, am a part of the upper middled class, as defined by expert sociologist. Loook up that income to verify mine.

Do you know what generosity is when it comes to gratuity? I hear everyday people saying that they are good tippers, when in fact they are amongst the worst.

If you don't like your tips work at a better bar, or here's an idea, get a better job.

Stop bitching about it already.

...and I want to know when it went to 20% was the norm from 15%. (And no, I'm not some old person - in my mid 20s still.) So I'm sick of hearing servers complain about not getting 'at least' 20%. for me, I give 15%, 20% if you were really good.

When did 15% go to 20%? I cannot pinpoint that period in time; however, I can tell you, that the custom has changed. People that enter restaurants and expect service are certainly under the guise that they deserve it, and I agree. I accept and respect the fact that people DO in fact deserve service when they enter a restaurant. However, most people maintain their own standards of service, which often are not compatible with the industry. People must understand that restaurants, much like EVERY business, are not perfect operating machines. Quote times may be inaccurate. Timing may be undesirable. Please be respectful of those individuals who are trying their best to serve those who expect 5-star service in a casual dining atmosphere. I assure you, you are not better than those individuals. You may not see what goes on behind the scenes, but please be certain that the staff is not sitting around doing nothing in hopes you get poor service. These people rely on gratuity as their way of life. They deserve it. I just wanted to include my two cents.

One other thing: Have respect for others!

Too bad, Mr. Bartender, that your upper-middle class income as defined by national averages does not translate too well to the NoVA socio-economic scale. Upper-middle class for the DC Metropolitan area exceeds $150k and as a bartender, you would be hard-pressed to earn this income outside of Manhattan, particularly using your very own assumptions that not everyone tips appropriately.

Moreover, you should not refer to the establishment as YOUR bar unless your name is on the business title and you are the owner or lessee. This tone is an indication of your sense of inflated self-worth and entitlement. You mix drinks, stack glasses and swipe debit cards for a living. As an above post dictates, you are not a chemist, engineer or investment banker. Be real.

Further, you do not possess the power to deny service to anyone in "YOUR" establishment, let alone to anyone in Reston, as you are a working person earning wages from your supervising manager and/or owner. As a private establishment, your owner or supervising manager would need to make that call, but only based on reasonable standards. Considering that bars in Reston are a dime a dozen, they do not want to deny the wrong customer or corporate citizen who will wage a public campaign for denial of service for unpopular purpose. Unruly patron: yes. Patrons that tip 15% rather than 20%: unreasonable.

Deny service to a protected class on an unreasonable basis, then you've introduced your supervising manager, owner and quite possibly the landlord / management company to litigation. At that point, you can welcome yourself to unemployment as all the bars in Reston, whom you befriend, would not hire you as you would be viewed as a liability based on your actions. Then again, with the attrition rates in the restaurant business, they may welcome you with open arms.

It's clear to me that you are living in angst not because of your lack of tips and perceived disrespect by all things white-collared, but from the path you chose in life. If not for the nearby professionals and clientele spending their corporate expense accounts, there would be very little purpose for "YOUR" establishment, let alone a Morton's, M&S Grill or McCormack's. Perhaps I'm giving you too much credit here as professionals rarely visit the bar at UNO's anyway. -§

§ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too bad, Mr. Bartender, that your upper-middle
> class income as defined by national averages does
> not translate too well to the NoVA socio-economic
> scale. Upper-middle class for the DC Metropolitan
> area exceeds $150k and as a bartender, you would
> be hard-pressed to earn this income outside of
> Manhattan, particularly using your very own
> assumptions that not everyone tips appropriately.
>
>
> Moreover, you should not refer to the
> establishment as YOUR bar unless your name is on
> the business title and you are the owner or
> lessee. This tone is an indication of your sense
> of inflated self-worth and entitlement. You mix
> drinks, stack glasses and swipe debit cards for a
> living. As an above post dictates, you are not a
> chemist, engineer or investment banker. Be real.
>
> Further, you do not possess the power to deny
> service to anyone in "YOUR" establishment, let
> alone to anyone in Reston, as you are a working
> person earning wages from your supervising manager
> and/or owner. As a private establishment, your
> owner or supervising manager would need to make
> that call, but only based on reasonable standards.
> Considering that bars in Reston are a dime a
> dozen, they do not want to deny the wrong customer
> or corporate citizen who will wage a public
> campaign for denial of service for unpopular
> purpose. Unruly patron: yes. Patrons that tip
> 15% rather than 20%: unreasonable.
>
> Deny service to a protected class on an
> unreasonable basis, then you've introduced your
> supervising manager, owner and quite possibly the
> landlord / management company to litigation. At
> that point, you can welcome yourself to
> unemployment as all the bars in Reston, whom you
> befriend, would not hire you as you would be
> viewed as a liability based on your actions. Then
> again, with the attrition rates in the restaurant
> business, they may welcome you with open arms.
>
> It's clear to me that you are living in angst not
> because of your lack of tips and perceived
> disrespect by all things white-collared, but from
> the path you chose in life. If not for the nearby
> professionals and clientele spending their
> corporate expense accounts, there would be very
> little purpose for "YOUR" establishment, let alone
> a Morton's, M&S Grill or McCormack's. Perhaps I'm
> giving you too much credit here as professionals
> rarely visit the bar at UNO's anyway. -§

Firstly, I must thank you for contributing an intelligible response to the initial post. It is hard to find anyone anywhere in this forum that is not here to simply include an unprogressive and often vulgar contribution to this thread. Again, I thank you.

In the interest of furthering this conversation, I must compel you to reread my original post. Although accepted and appreciated, your banter has strayed from the issue this post addresses.

I must also point out that in alcohol service, refusal may be based upon just about anything. It is not advisable to refuse service to those who tip poorly or not at all (I do not do this), but one must anticipate a delay in service during their next visit. However, do not assume that the individual serving you is not in the position to make that decision: you are ill advised.

You mention white-collar "professionals" using their corporate accounts in Reston. You also mention that if it were not for their patronage, there would be no business (paraphrase). I very often have clients that ask me how to hide their purchase from their superiors. They would like a receipt that does not describe their exact purchase. They are certainly seeking to cover their alcohol purchase. I always ask them the name of the company for which they work. Stupidly, they reveal this information. After the revelation, I suggest I am a shareholder (often I am) and they immediately pay with their own credit/debit card, or cash. I find this act to be rather interesting.

Addressing your "statistic" of $150,000/yr defining those of the upper middle class in northern VA, I challenge your statement. Although the median income in Fairfax County specifically is roughly $95,000, that allows for a gigantic middle class. This means that about half of the Fairfax County households have such an income or less - but not more. When defining economic classes, one must look at what the households as a whole earn: never mind net worth.

You are correct in your reference to the attrition in the restaurant industry, especially in the Reston area. In addition, you are correct when you ascertain that someone refusing service to a non-tipping client would find it a difficult venture to obtain employment in the same area. These are the only concessions I will make.

In keeping this lengthy response post short, I have a few friends that bartend at Uno's (and the other bars you mention). I frequent there myself when I have the time. There are plenty of white-collar "professionals" that patronize. In fact, I know many who do.

I am sure this will not clear the air by any bounds, but I look forward to new posts and responses to this and I anticipate your's sir/madam. I thank everyone for his or her participation. Have a great week.

EJ alert EJ alert!!

By my quick calculations in order to make $95K a year, you would have to pour a drink every 2 minutes, for every eight hour shift, for a total of 2080 hours a year, based on a $6 drink cost, with tipping at %25. This assumes that you do not split your tips and that you make a salary of $2.50 an hour.

It actually seems plausible that you could be making this much money, but if you alone are serving a crowded bar area of say 30 people, each would have to drink one drink every hour for the entire 8 hour shift.

This is of course only averages. Your bar is likely only that crowded for a few hours, and you are busy with providing drinks for servers, who may or may not share tips with you, you probably take time off at some point, or at least do not work a full 40 hours a week. And someone, possibly you, has to work the crappy shifts sometime.

I would guess that you probably make more in the neighborhood of $60K. Since much of your compensation is cash, you may not even be fully aware of what you make.

Also, I agree with others that your education has nothing to do with this topic. Your original post could have been much shorter and more succinct. You would not have come across as such an arrogant ass that way

I got a tip for ya: dont plant yer corn in tha winter!
a-hole schmuck

You start at 15% and your tip can go up or down form there. I've only not tipped once - but that was for the girl who went on break after our food came out having never brought it out and 1.5 hours later finally brought out my ice cream which was, by then, melted.

But to insist that the minimum is now 20% is annoying - just because some people try to outdo each other with how generous they are doesn't mean I will.

And if you're really annoyed by people not tipping, find another line of work that doesn't involve it. I worked at a clothing store for years and yes, the people who left stuff all over the store annoyed me, but that's what I got for working at a clothing store.

20%. Get a grip. with resturante prices going up you get more tip automatily.

15% is the jumping off point for a food server.

10% for bartender if I run a tab, or leftover change each drink if I'm cashing each time. sorry but getting a cold glass out of the frezzer and pulling on the Guiness tap ain't rocket science. if I order food at the bar then it goes up to 15%

I've all but given up on bars in VA once they get the smoking ban enacted I may spend more time but until then....

So is what you are telling me, the next time I'min Outback(or some other cheesy chain) and theres a 30minute wait, youd' rather me not order a big bloke, glass of wine, and a soda and put a tip in it for you....heck thats the best, you pour the drinks I pay you and then I take em away I don't take up any precious space on a barstool and the the server gets to the deal with the extra glasses.

No tips for the pompus barman anymore....

what a schmuck....

Most of you reading this fail to see the initial point of this post. If you do not have money to tip, get your drink on at home! Yes, people expect service when they go out. The reason most people go out is they want food and drinks, they enjoy social aspect and (let's face it) they do not have to clean up after themselves. Servers and bartenders are providing this service for you, and have co-workers (cooks, bussers, etc.) helping to boot. When you have been in the business for a while and are making good money, chances are you know what you are doing. "Youknow" is simply stating that he knows the kind of service he is giving (not the 21 year old, know-it-all-but-doesn't bartender, but an educated 30 year old) is above average. We all go to work to make money right? Not tipping is unacceptable. Service provided warrants a tip, period.

mjs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 10% for bartender if I run a tab, or leftover
> change each drink if I'm cashing each time.

So you're the guy who lays down a fiver for a $4.50 beer and thinks you're Nelson Rockefeller.



> but getting a cold glass out of the frezzer and
> pulling on the Guiness tap ain't rocket science.

Maybe the bar you go to is like McDonalds.... you wait in line and place your order, the bartender fills your order and takes your money, and then moves on to the next guy in line. In the real world, it's not quite that simple.

It's about being three deep at the bar, and making sure not only that everyone gets served, but that everyone gets served quickly and correctly. Meanwhile, there's a punk-ass 21-year-old who just got a "Bartender's Bible" for his birthday, and he and his friends want a Spastic Monkey On A Unicycle, 2 Red-Headed Minister's Daughters, and a Virgin Cuba Libre with no lime. Being able to handle that is what makes a good bartender like YouKnow worth every penny.

Bottom line, as has been stated many times, if you're too cheap to come off of 20%, stay home.

.
Attachments:

Oakton kids are by far the worst tippers in the area ask anyone in the fax mill shopping center. sometime your lucky if they pay their bill.






l

I would love to know when the tip rate went to 20%. That is ludicrous.

I used to work at a highendish restaurant in Herndon. When I had my bad nights I got tipped avg 7%, yet I didn't say a word nor care a damn. My good nights could go all the way up to a 30% tip rate, as I was one hell of a waiter when I got the hang of the place. I assume the patrons were impressed that I never so much as used a pencil. The bad comes with the good in this industry, take it or leave it.

@youKnow,
Stop complaining about tips. Just don't bother with it. I am sure that even when people seem to not be tipping you are pulling 17% averages from a night. Have you ever bothered using your college experience to work out how much you actually make? The restaurant business has its tides.

you claim that you are the best in the area; then why not move on to a better more established bar where tippings of 25% and up are commonplace?

One small caveat that I must mention, if I am remembering the prices correctly, a simple bear is around 4.50$ from a bar? One poster here say 6$, so I would believe that my number stands. This is already an insane amount to charge for a bear that costs maybe 1.00$, perhaps 2. Yet you expect to be tipped on top of that inflated price? Excuse if I am off on the numbers, I haven't been to a bar since I was 17. Ah the glories of bartenders.

And to inform those here, a bartender like our friend here makes around 30$ an hour. that is if he manages to work 40 hours a week, all 52 weeks in the year, which I bet he doesn't. And all that is if he makes a measly 60k a year.

Maybe you should lobby against your own industry for fairer price regulation instead of going to your customer who is already paying a severely inflated price.

I plead with you, please calculate out a normal night for yourself. find how much you are truly making. Many would be happy with a 15$/hour job, you may be more in the realm of 30-40$/hour. Please reevaluate your own self before taking it out on your customers. If you are tired of those that tip poorly, 1) Notice that 20% is ABSOLUTELY not the new norm especially at a bar, and 2) that you have the opportunity to work elsewhere, seeing as you are the self proclaimed best.

How many bartenders or waiters will hold the glass on the lower half instead of the lip where you drink from?

Waiters do that still? I only did it when I was taking away the glasses to the dish room, that's disgusting.

That's why you get no tip or low tips...from me.You have achieved much.

Beer. Beer.

Tips are in appreciation of good service. Do good service and you'll 15%, terrible service and you'll get 5-7% or maybe nothing.

TIPS ARE NOT ALWAYS 15%, THAT"S FOR EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE!

themoreYOUKNOW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would love to know when the tip rate went to
> 20%. That is ludicrous.

That has been the norm for some time.



> you claim that you are the best in the area; then
> why not move on to a better more established bar
> where tippings of 25% and up are commonplace?

YouKnow never claimed he was the best. (" I am a good bartender. In fact, many have voted me the best in the area.") Others have called him the best.


> One small caveat that I must mention, if I am
> remembering the prices correctly, a simple bear is
> around 4.50$ from a bar? One poster here say 6$,
> so I would believe that my number stands. This is
> already an insane amount to charge for a bear that
> costs maybe 1.00$, perhaps 2. Yet you expect to
> be tipped on top of that inflated price? Excuse if
> I am off on the numbers, I haven't been to a bar
> since I was 17. Ah the glories of bartenders.

1- That's not a caveat, that's a statement.
2- Every business has to make a profit. The bartender doesn't get that profit, it is used to cover operating costs, including salaries. (Which, for bartenders and servers, are freakishly low.)
Oh, and nice touch, bragging about the underage drinking.


> And to inform those here, a bartender like our
> friend here makes around 30$ an hour.

I seriously doubt that.


> Maybe you should lobby against your own industry
> for fairer price regulation instead of going to
> your customer who is already paying a severely
> inflated price.

If you don't want to pay the "severely inflated price", drink at home.


> 1) Notice that 20% is ABSOLUTELY
> not the new norm especially at a bar,

But... But.. What did you say here?
> why not move on to a better more established bar
> where tippings of 25% and up are commonplace?

Face it, 20% is the standard for good service. No matter what you say.


> you have the opportunity to work elsewhere, seeing
> as you are the self proclaimed best.

Again, he never proclaimed himself the best. It seems to me that you're throwing extra words into your argument to make yourself sound smarter than you are. It doesn't work.
And BTW, the dollar sign goes before the numbers, genius.

---------------------------------
Who knows from whence he came, and who knows where he goes, dot dot dot.