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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
gracealexwatch
()
Date: July 27, 2019 01:09AM
Check out Bob Malm’s sermon from 7/21, found at https://www.gracealex.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Practical-Spirituality.pdf. There are a few issues, one of which is disturbing.
First, the author of the book “Death and Dying” is not Elizabeth Kubler Ross. It’s Elisabeth Kübler-Ross. Moreover, given that she wrote the book at a time when women were often treated with disdain by the largely male medical profession, it might be nice to recognize the fact that the author was an MD. That said, Bob has never been one to type his own sermons, so he gets a pass on that one.
Second, Bob’s recollection of the book is inaccurate. Kübler-Ross’ book is not about the reactions of dying children, but rather about dying patients of every age, but with most of her subjects being adults. Indeed, in a subsequent book, Kübler-Ross noted that children have some profound differences in their views toward dying, most notably that children below a certain age cannot grasp the concept of the finality of death. This correlates with the differing physiological aspects of terminally ill children, with many becoming more animated as these move into the preactive phase of dying. This differs from adults, who typically become more withdrawn as they enter this phase.
Third, and most significantly, while it is important to care for parishioners at a time of change such as this, the reality is that clergy come and go. In fact, many contend that it is unhealthy for clergy to stay more than 7 to 10 years; when clergy stay longer, they often tend to feel an unhealthy ownership of a church, versus recognizing that they are there to serve the church and its members. But in either case, clergy are there to point members toward God, the divine. They are not there to point members to themselves. Thus, correlating one’s retirement with the grieving process that occurs with death is highly inappropriate.
To be fair, Kübler-Ross herself noted that her model not only applies to death, but to the grief that comes from relationships that end, jobs that end, and other forms of loss. But clergy are never friends, and it is not possible to have a healthy pastoral relationship and be friends with your parishioners. You may be friendly, and that is good, but you may not be friends. Thus, Bob’s retirement is the transition from one professional relationship to another professional relationship.
Moreover, if Grace’s search committee, the diocese, and the church’s members all work together, Bob’s retirement is an opportunity to build a healthier church in which conflict is handled appropriately, in which faith and friendly are not conflated, and in which healthy boundaries within the parish are established and maintained. In that context, members hopefully will learn that there is never a situation in which it is appropriate to urge others to commit suicide, or for clergy to commit perjury, or for a church to try to drag a dying woman into court.
Above all, Bob Malm’s retirement is a chance for church members to put their faith into practice. The way people in the church talk to each other, and about each other, is highly inappropriate, contrary to the baptismal covenant, and contrary to Christian values.
Will members of Grace Church ultimately learn from the problems of the Malm era? The answer is that it will depend on their willingness to examine their conduct, their attitudes, their faith, both individually and collectively. Affection for Bob, which in many cases borders on idolatry, makes this a challenging proposition. But without this careful introspection, and specific plans to enact meaningful change, Grace Church will not last much longer.
Yes, Grace Church is inclusive, but if it’s not spiritually sound, why bother? There are far cheaper and less demanding ways to enjoy time with others, and without all the petty nonsense, gossip, and bullying that goes on at Grace Church.
Bob Malm will soon be a memory, and for some a positive memory. But real churches are not built around their rector, and healthy churches view change not as a loss, but as opportunity for new and possibly better things.
In the meantime, lose the five stages of death and dying analogies. As Bob himself once said of Peter and Cheryl Barnes leaving (and this is a direct quote), “Why should I give a fuck? People come and go all the time. People transfer in and out of churches.”
And yes, there were witnesses.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
First, the author of the book “Death and Dying” is not Elizabeth Kubler Ross. It’s Elisabeth Kübler-Ross. Moreover, given that she wrote the book at a time when women were often treated with disdain by the largely male medical profession, it might be nice to recognize the fact that the author was an MD. That said, Bob has never been one to type his own sermons, so he gets a pass on that one.
Second, Bob’s recollection of the book is inaccurate. Kübler-Ross’ book is not about the reactions of dying children, but rather about dying patients of every age, but with most of her subjects being adults. Indeed, in a subsequent book, Kübler-Ross noted that children have some profound differences in their views toward dying, most notably that children below a certain age cannot grasp the concept of the finality of death. This correlates with the differing physiological aspects of terminally ill children, with many becoming more animated as these move into the preactive phase of dying. This differs from adults, who typically become more withdrawn as they enter this phase.
Third, and most significantly, while it is important to care for parishioners at a time of change such as this, the reality is that clergy come and go. In fact, many contend that it is unhealthy for clergy to stay more than 7 to 10 years; when clergy stay longer, they often tend to feel an unhealthy ownership of a church, versus recognizing that they are there to serve the church and its members. But in either case, clergy are there to point members toward God, the divine. They are not there to point members to themselves. Thus, correlating one’s retirement with the grieving process that occurs with death is highly inappropriate.
To be fair, Kübler-Ross herself noted that her model not only applies to death, but to the grief that comes from relationships that end, jobs that end, and other forms of loss. But clergy are never friends, and it is not possible to have a healthy pastoral relationship and be friends with your parishioners. You may be friendly, and that is good, but you may not be friends. Thus, Bob’s retirement is the transition from one professional relationship to another professional relationship.
Moreover, if Grace’s search committee, the diocese, and the church’s members all work together, Bob’s retirement is an opportunity to build a healthier church in which conflict is handled appropriately, in which faith and friendly are not conflated, and in which healthy boundaries within the parish are established and maintained. In that context, members hopefully will learn that there is never a situation in which it is appropriate to urge others to commit suicide, or for clergy to commit perjury, or for a church to try to drag a dying woman into court.
Above all, Bob Malm’s retirement is a chance for church members to put their faith into practice. The way people in the church talk to each other, and about each other, is highly inappropriate, contrary to the baptismal covenant, and contrary to Christian values.
Will members of Grace Church ultimately learn from the problems of the Malm era? The answer is that it will depend on their willingness to examine their conduct, their attitudes, their faith, both individually and collectively. Affection for Bob, which in many cases borders on idolatry, makes this a challenging proposition. But without this careful introspection, and specific plans to enact meaningful change, Grace Church will not last much longer.
Yes, Grace Church is inclusive, but if it’s not spiritually sound, why bother? There are far cheaper and less demanding ways to enjoy time with others, and without all the petty nonsense, gossip, and bullying that goes on at Grace Church.
Bob Malm will soon be a memory, and for some a positive memory. But real churches are not built around their rector, and healthy churches view change not as a loss, but as opportunity for new and possibly better things.
In the meantime, lose the five stages of death and dying analogies. As Bob himself once said of Peter and Cheryl Barnes leaving (and this is a direct quote), “Why should I give a fuck? People come and go all the time. People transfer in and out of churches.”
And yes, there were witnesses.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
Lisa G.
()
Date: July 27, 2019 08:26AM
Eric Bonetti you are a liar. The Malms and the Barnes are good friends despite your bullshit. They go to my Dad’s Church and we have had dinner together many times. They also have been a great support to me as great friends treat each other when someone is having a hard time. Since they moved our friendship has continued and is a stinger relationship. They are absolutely disgusted with your behavior. Do yourself a favor and GET A LIFE!
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
gracealexwatch
()
Date: July 27, 2019 09:14AM
1. Clergy cannot be both in a pastoral relationship and your friend. To do so is an ethical violation.
2. Bob’s comments about, “Why should I give a fuck?” were made in RT’s Restaurant over dinner, in front of witnesses. And whether Bob is friends with the Barnes or not is irrelevant. Oh, and while you’re at it, ask Bob about his comments to me about, “The worst of both families.?” (Yes, those were about the Barnes.)
3. Why don’t you ask Perjuring Bob for his documentation of all the appointments my mother, or someone claiming to be her, made with him? Since you’re prepared to call people liars, get a little backbone and call Bob out on his lies. $20 says you don’t have the courage or moral integrity to do so. Again, the word is PERJURY. As is criminal offense and profound ethical violation.,
4. No matter how you attempt to parse the issue, Bob’s use of the five stages of dying model in connection with his impending retirement is inappropriate.
5. Attached is a screen cap of Peter’s text to me following one of Bob’s inappropriate and protracted outbursts. Present in the room were Bob Malm, Elizabeth Legere, Anne Caputo, and Peter. I was there for part of the meeting. Why don’t you ask about that meeting? It was an HR committee meeting, BTW. Oh, and in our litigation Bob never denied the authenticity of the text, so you can spare me your denials.
So, why don’t you get a life and approach these issues with some integrity? Time to have some backbone and acknowledge that Bob Malm is a perjurer. And if you want to back Bob Malm’s perjury, you’re every bit the ethical trailer park trash that he is. And just in case you can’t recall his perjury, I’ve attached a copy for you, so you can be disgusted about that.
Perjury.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
Attachments:
2. Bob’s comments about, “Why should I give a fuck?” were made in RT’s Restaurant over dinner, in front of witnesses. And whether Bob is friends with the Barnes or not is irrelevant. Oh, and while you’re at it, ask Bob about his comments to me about, “The worst of both families.?” (Yes, those were about the Barnes.)
3. Why don’t you ask Perjuring Bob for his documentation of all the appointments my mother, or someone claiming to be her, made with him? Since you’re prepared to call people liars, get a little backbone and call Bob out on his lies. $20 says you don’t have the courage or moral integrity to do so. Again, the word is PERJURY. As is criminal offense and profound ethical violation.,
4. No matter how you attempt to parse the issue, Bob’s use of the five stages of dying model in connection with his impending retirement is inappropriate.
5. Attached is a screen cap of Peter’s text to me following one of Bob’s inappropriate and protracted outbursts. Present in the room were Bob Malm, Elizabeth Legere, Anne Caputo, and Peter. I was there for part of the meeting. Why don’t you ask about that meeting? It was an HR committee meeting, BTW. Oh, and in our litigation Bob never denied the authenticity of the text, so you can spare me your denials.
So, why don’t you get a life and approach these issues with some integrity? Time to have some backbone and acknowledge that Bob Malm is a perjurer. And if you want to back Bob Malm’s perjury, you’re every bit the ethical trailer park trash that he is. And just in case you can’t recall his perjury, I’ve attached a copy for you, so you can be disgusted about that.
Perjury.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
Attachments:
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
gracealexwatch
()
Date: July 27, 2019 09:28AM
PS Spare all parties the whole, “I don’t want to get involved,” routine. You have already chosen to wade in, so it’s entirely appropriate for you to address Malm’s perjury and verify for yourself Bob’s lies under oath.
And since you’re so sure you know who’s a liar, no doubt you’ll post those emails or other evidence re Sigrid Yahner making appointments. Bob claims these appointments were made “time after time,” so you should have a ton of documentation to choose from.
We’ll wait.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
And since you’re so sure you know who’s a liar, no doubt you’ll post those emails or other evidence re Sigrid Yahner making appointments. Bob claims these appointments were made “time after time,” so you should have a ton of documentation to choose from.
We’ll wait.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
PPS
()
Date: July 27, 2019 02:59PM
And for those of you at Grace who are following this thread, ask Malm about his referring to Jan Spence as an “asshole,” or his statements that his kids caught Lisa Doelp going through their furniture at the rectory. I very much doubt that the latter is true, and in both cases, this is not how clergy should be talking about parishioners, even if it is true. Nor is Bob’s lying to vestry members appropriate. As in telling people not to worry about the office staff—they’ll be retiring this year. Just ask Phil Smith about that.
The ironic thing is that there are even parish employees who say they would never join Grace Church because of the way parishioners talk to each other, yet parishioners respond with puzzlement when these issues arise. Meanwhile, the fact that parishioners don’t have an issue with Bob Malm’s perjury, his bullying behavior, and his efforts to drag a dying woman into court tells you what a screwed up place Grace Church is. And if Peter and Cheryl, or anyone else, is “disgusted” by my calling a spade a spade, so be it. I for one have no use for clergy who commit perjury, try to drag the dying into court, and otherwise abuse the trust others put in them. Nor do I have any use for folks who turn a blind eye to that abuse.
Oh, and if anyone at Grace Church thinks that somehow they are immune from Bob’s inappropriate comments, they are delusional. This is a priest who lies under oath, in writing, while being advised by legal counsel.
Lastly, be sure to give generously to Bob’s purse. He doesn’t tell people that YOU’RE an asshole, or that he doesn’t give a fuck that YOU have left the church, etc. After all, YOU’RE special.
And when Grace Church is gone, just remember: It was a special place.
The ironic thing is that there are even parish employees who say they would never join Grace Church because of the way parishioners talk to each other, yet parishioners respond with puzzlement when these issues arise. Meanwhile, the fact that parishioners don’t have an issue with Bob Malm’s perjury, his bullying behavior, and his efforts to drag a dying woman into court tells you what a screwed up place Grace Church is. And if Peter and Cheryl, or anyone else, is “disgusted” by my calling a spade a spade, so be it. I for one have no use for clergy who commit perjury, try to drag the dying into court, and otherwise abuse the trust others put in them. Nor do I have any use for folks who turn a blind eye to that abuse.
Oh, and if anyone at Grace Church thinks that somehow they are immune from Bob’s inappropriate comments, they are delusional. This is a priest who lies under oath, in writing, while being advised by legal counsel.
Lastly, be sure to give generously to Bob’s purse. He doesn’t tell people that YOU’RE an asshole, or that he doesn’t give a fuck that YOU have left the church, etc. After all, YOU’RE special.
And when Grace Church is gone, just remember: It was a special place.
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
...!....
()
Date: July 27, 2019 08:22PM
Lisa probably considers herself a Christian too.
Lisa G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eric Bonetti you are a liar. The Malms and the
> Barnes are good friends despite your bullshit.
> They go to my Dad’s Church and we have had
> dinner together many times. They also have been a
> great support to me as great friends treat each
> other when someone is having a hard time. Since
> they moved our friendship has continued and is a
> stinger relationship. They are absolutely
> disgusted with your behavior. Do yourself a favor
> and GET A LIFE!
Attachments:
Lisa G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eric Bonetti you are a liar. The Malms and the
> Barnes are good friends despite your bullshit.
> They go to my Dad’s Church and we have had
> dinner together many times. They also have been a
> great support to me as great friends treat each
> other when someone is having a hard time. Since
> they moved our friendship has continued and is a
> stinger relationship. They are absolutely
> disgusted with your behavior. Do yourself a favor
> and GET A LIFE!
Attachments:
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
gracealexwatch
()
Date: July 27, 2019 08:33PM
Wonder how many other priests have pulled down a $100K bonus? Or how many churches pay a $100K bonus when they know that they are going to have to borrow several hundred thousand dollars only five years later.
Things to think about when making your 2020 pledge.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
Attachments:
Things to think about when making your 2020 pledge.
Visit www.gracealexwatch.org to learn more
Social media @gracealexwatch
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
Attachments:
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
Deliberate Misuse
()
Date: July 27, 2019 09:29PM
Wonder how Lisa G feels about the church’s deliberate misuse of memorial donations, done at Bob Malm’s direction.
Here’s the documentation from the successful Fairfax County Office of Consumer Protection complaint filed against the church.
Attachments:
Here’s the documentation from the successful Fairfax County Office of Consumer Protection complaint filed against the church.
Attachments:
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
Bob Malm perjuring priest
()
Date: July 28, 2019 05:32PM
Bob Malm, perjuring priest
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
Grace Episcopal School
()
Date: July 29, 2019 01:57PM
Enroll today!
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: Bob Malm’s Troubling Analogy Between His Retirement and the Five Stages of Grief
Posted by:
Grace Episcopal Alexandria
()
Date: July 30, 2019 09:46AM
Where is Bob Malm?
Attachments:
Attachments: