why would San Francisco care about this, I reckon?

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Man-killed-in-fiery-crash-in-Fairfax-County-3783799.php

Franconia Rd still closed off at Van Dorn at this time while FCPD figures out how to CYA this up LoLz
Attachments:

Looks like the cop has crossed the line.
Attachments:

Just curious, but why do you read SF news on Monday morning?

Gordon lives by there and heard the crash & searched for info.

When a police car gets in a head-on with another car, which in turn brusts into flames....that's newsworthy, even nationally...

Well, that's one pig that got smoked...

Newsroom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When a police car gets in a head-on with another
> car, which in turn brusts into flames....that's
> newsworthy, even nationally...


It's rare when a car brusts into flames.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why would San Francisco care about this, I
> reckon?
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Man-killed-in-f
> iery-crash-in-Fairfax-County-3783799.php


My guess is that the online version of the SF paper has a bot that picks up AP stories without a lot of filtering as to level of interest. Better question is why did this hit the AP newswire?

Looks like the cop fell asleep and drifted across the median into oncoming traffic

Accident happened pretty late at night. Bet he was pretty tired and dozed off.


And the cop wasn't the one smoked it looks like. No flame damage to the cruiser

The non-cop car went up in flames and the driver of that car was killed. It is easy to see the cop falling asleep, but we'll wait and see on that one. If it was the FCPD officer's fault, the county is going to be paying someone a lot of money for a long time.

Maybe they thought it was from Fairfax, California.
Still don't know why AP picked it up.
Was this even in the local news?

Oops - I see it on WTOP.

..



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 05:46PM by Scott Lehman.

Angle off-set head on type of collisions cause significant rotation. These pictures show the final resting place of the cars. No one can tell from these pics who caused what.

One man is dead and a police officer is in the hospital after a serious crash in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County.

The head-on crash happened near the intersection of Franconia Road and Gum Street shortly after 3 a.m.

A westbound police officer was responding to an emergency when a vehicle headed eastbound veered into his lane lane.

The crash caused a fire. The officer was able to radio that he was trapped in his cruiser and was rescued. The citizen driver died in the fire.

..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 05:45PM by Scott Lehman.

Was the officer responding to a call? If so were the lights on?


Case of driver falling asleep and the officer was unlucky

6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like the cop has crossed the line.


How the hell did you figure this one out. No really, was this just a guess or I know, I know....you are just making crap up. You can't even see the other car. You cant even see where the vehicles first impacted in this picture.

Wait for it.....

Wait for it....


The dumb ass trying to promote his book to post another quote that has nothing to do with this accident what so ever.....he should be along soon.

3am? We talkin' 'bout...3AM?!?!

Reports say the Infiniti veered suddenly into Five-Oh's lane...at 3am. My money is on one or any combination herein:

1) It's an Asian car so, some non-OEM ricer part fell off of it and caused the steering to go wack.

2) Drunk

3) Cell Phone

4) A brown savage at the wheel

NBC 4 is reporting officer was responding to "emergency" call. No info about lights and sirens. No interview with the police at the scene.

ABC 7 has a reporter interviewing a poilce officer stating the police car did not have lights and sirens on because he was not responding to an emergency.

Wonder why two different news channels are reporting such different versions. Why has NBC 4 not posted their interview with the officer so everybody can see what was told to the reporter.

Fox 5 is also reporting the officer was not responding to an emergency. SO why is NBC 4 the only news reporting that the officer was? Is NBC 4 making the news details up to get more interest in their coverage??

Cop could have been responding to a call but not necessarily an emergency?

Didn't see anything about the cop speeding either. Doubt anyone really knows anything right now if the cop is still in the hospital.

The cop was apparently going eastbownd in the far right lane and the car swerved three lanes over and head-on"ed" the cop car near the intersection of Franconia and Gum St. The driver was probably attempting to make a left turn onto Old Rolling Rd because he had just missed his left turn onto Brookland Rd. which was his normal route home. (He lived in an old house right behind the McDonalds on the north side of Franconia between these two streets). The cop car is reported not to have been using lights and sirens, so thr other driver may not have seen him. I hope this was an accident. I hope he had not been drinking and I hope it was not intentional, but knowing this individual either thing could be possible.

It's possible he intentially put his car head-on into another car?

@Rex - sirens or not, cop musta had headlights on @ 3 in the morning - kinda hard to believe you could miss that sorta thing middle of the night, is all - headlights coming at you, I mean.

I do not want to speak ill of the dead. He was a good friend. But I understand he had lately been having some issues. I hope and pray he didn't see the cop car and that it was just a horrible accident. RIP Jeff.

Oh, I'd also like to add...

5) Police Assisted Suicide

Ralph Pootawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious, but why do you read SF news on
> Monday morning?

M4M ads?

Granny Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, I'd also like to add...
>
> 5) Police Assisted Suicide


Sucide By Cop usually involves shooting, though it is amazing how easy you could just turn the wheel into an 18 wheeler moving down the road, say out on RT 15 and that would end your trip real quick.

If the police car was responding to an emergency as reported, but also was not using lights and sirens as also reported, the police car was probably still speeding to get to the scene of the emergency. The driver of the car probably was turning left onto Old Rolling Rd to go home to his house, but may have misjudged the high speed of the responding police car, finally realized how fast the cop car was coming, that he didn't have time to make the left in front of him, and that they would collide, tried to negotiate back to the right to avoid the collision and ended up facing the police cruiser head-on at impact. The police reported that the driver "swerved wildly over three lanes" which, were it the fact, make the accident the fault of the other driver and not the cop, but the other driver may have only been turning left, and the cop probably was speeding.

Rex, It's probably best that you don't share personal information about Jeff on here. Things like where he lived or any personal issues he may have had are best left out of FU.

Another Friend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rex, It's probably best that you don't share
> personal information about Jeff on here. Things
> like where he lived or any personal issues he may
> have had are best left out of FU.

We will find out. And when we do, we will be relentless.

I know, but no need to spoon feed you.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Rex - sirens or not, cop musta had headlights on
> @ 3 in the morning - kinda hard to believe you
> could miss that sorta thing middle of the night,
> is all - headlights coming at you, I mean.


Apparently the facts indicate that it is indeed not hard to hot a cop car at night at 3am without the sirens.


Also, wormfood.

Maybe no see 4,000 poundo crowno victoria-o policia interceptoro como downo tho-oh roado.

Got to Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 6X Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Looks like the cop has crossed the line.
>
>
> How the hell did you figure this one out. No
> really, was this just a guess or I know, I
> know....you are just making crap up. You can't
> even see the other car. You cant even see where
> the vehicles first impacted in this picture.


His car is on the wrong side of the yellow line...He crossed the line.

Franconia Rd. has two lanes going east, two lanes going west and one center lane shared for cars turning north or south.

from "Out of control: An informal history of the Fairfax County Police"


THE NAKED COFFEE GUY CASE
On October 19, 2009, Erick Williamson of Springfield was arrested for drinking coffee in the nude in his kitchen. The idiocy started when the wife of a police officer phoned her husband to complain that she was looking into the victim’s house and saw him naked.
The arrest, dubbed the Naked Guy case, made international headlines and, once again, the Fairfax Police, made the county look ridiculous in the eyes of the world. (The first time being the raids on bars to search for drunks, the second being the "this ain’t America no more" election day video recording.)
By their own admission, police raided the house, in force, with guns drawn ("just in case we encountered a hostile individual," the officers explained) and with no warrant to enter the property, where they found the culprit asleep…with his pants on.
After they pulled him outside onto his lawn, a cop asked Williamson if he could take his picture. Williamson said no. The cop took the picture anyway and showed it to the woman who had complained, and asked her for positive identification, which they got. They returned to the house and arrested Williamson. It took a jury less than twenty minutes to find Williamson not guilty.

6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got to Know Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 6X Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Looks like the cop has crossed the line.
> >
> >
> > How the hell did you figure this one out. No
> > really, was this just a guess or I know, I
> > know....you are just making crap up. You can't
> > even see the other car. You cant even see where
> > the vehicles first impacted in this picture.
>
>
> His car is on the wrong side of the yellow
> line...He crossed the line.
>
> Franconia Rd. has two lanes going east, two lanes
> going west and one center lane shared for cars
> turning north or south.


You do realize that a high speed impact wont result in both cars staying exactly where they are and they'll probably travel for a good deal more, right?

6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got to Know Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 6X Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Looks like the cop has crossed the line.
> >
> >
> > How the hell did you figure this one out. No
> > really, was this just a guess or I know, I
> > know....you are just making crap up. You can't
> > even see the other car. You cant even see where
> > the vehicles first impacted in this picture.
>
>
> His car is on the wrong side of the yellow
> line...He crossed the line.
>
> Franconia Rd. has two lanes going east, two lanes
> going west and one center lane shared for cars
> turning north or south.


So all in all....if two cars hit each other at an angle at the speeds typical for that roadway, the cars will not "freeze land" in the position they were in at the moment of impact.

This is called physics. And you're all a bunch of fucking retards if you think the shitty picture provided is enough to determine where the cars were at moment of impact.

Don't confuse the fucking retards with facts.....please.

6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got to Know Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 6X Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Looks like the cop has crossed the line.
> >
> >
> > How the hell did you figure this one out. No
> > really, was this just a guess or I know, I
> > know....you are just making crap up. You can't
> > even see the other car. You cant even see where
> > the vehicles first impacted in this picture.
>
>
> His car is on the wrong side of the yellow
> line...He crossed the line.
>
> Franconia Rd. has two lanes going east, two lanes
> going west and one center lane shared for cars
> turning north or south.

Are you retarded? Have you ever seen a head on collision? Cars dont just end up where the collision occured. If so, what happened to the other car? Did it vanish or just completely melt in the fire?

In all seriousness, during a head on collision vehicles rotate. If the other vehicle was crossing in front of the cop (from the cops left to right as it would of in this scenario), the cops vehicle would have more then likely of rotated clockwise. The majority of the time, rotating vehicles don't rotate on a dime. Assuming both vehicle were traveling at the speed limit (45MPH?) there is quite a bit of energy that has to be "burnt off" before they come to rest. As the cops vehicle is rotating, which it likely did more then one complete rotation, its burning off its Kinetic Energy. During this its not only spinning but also traveling across the roadway or into the oncoming lanes.

Also, we dont know where the other can ended up. It is also possible the final resting spot of the cops car (in the picture) is the lane he was traveling in and it rotated right where the collision occured.

This is why often times when you have a head on collision cars end up off the roadway or into telephone poles, parked cars, etc.

In short, we know nearly no facts about this accident yet. We shouldn't come to conclusions yet about either driver.

WoW, when I said he crossed the line it was a pun. I didn't say it was before the accident. If the cop was going west he is on the wrong side of the line. How he got there I don't know. Both cars ended up in the east bound lanes near Gordons house
Attachments:

OP asked why this made the news in San Francisco... Because newspapers pick up online stories from AP, Reuters, Washington Post, NYT, etc. based on search parameters.

I bet the San Francisco media has it set to look for any stories from Fairfax... Fairfax, California which is a suburb just outside San Francisco. So, they goofed and picked up a Fairfax, Virginia story.

@ Rex: If it was indeed you're friend that you lost in the car, sorry to hear that. But you're assumption of what might have happened doesn't make much sense or you have you're sense of direction mixed up.

From what I think we all understand from what we've read, the Police car was going east on 644. Also, as we have read and is quite obvious from the pictures it was a head on collision.

You've stated yourself about the car going eastbound and the other driver possible turning left onto Brookland, which there is no way that could have happened because you can't turn left onto Brookland if you are going West, since that street is on his right, and doesn't continue across 644. I'm going to assume you got you're east and west mixed up.

I happened to be driving by the scene around 7:15 AM, and at the time the cops were huddled around the deceased car with white sheets, blocking the gruesome view as they attempted to remove his body, with the gurney waiting nearby with a bodybag on top....

The picture above really tells you all you need to know of the resting place of the vehicles, as well as what I remembered when I drove by the scene. I checked google maps street view to make sure where I thought the cars rested were correct, given the Shell gas station in the background is on the side of 644 West....

The Police car was in the Eastbound lane of 644, in the intersection of 644 and Gum Street, facing WEST. The car of the deceased, obviously was about 8-10 feet away in the same intersection, same side of the road, facing South down Gum Street.

My own assumption is that the deceased tried to turn left onto Gum St. from 644 west in front of the cop car going 644 East and as the car was turning the cop care tried to turn to the left to avoid the direction he was going but with the speed both were traveling at, they met head on.

Check your facts. There is a lot of confusion about those. There were some news stories that got the directions mixed up, but it is impossible to determine which. Here is a link taht confirms the civilian vehicle was going east, the cop cruiser was going west. Not the other way around. http://kingstowne.patch.com/articles/police-investigate-fatal-crash-franconia-road-closed

If this was the case then it is possible the civilian driver was just making a left turn as rex indicated. We may never know for sure.

Ok, I'm 6x, but which way was the cars going?

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2012/081312fatalcrashfranconiaroad.htm

http://kingstowne.patch.com/articles/police-investigate-fatal-crash-franconia-road-closed

1) Dash cam will answer questions.
2) Kamikaze? Maybe someone angry at the police?

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Dash cam will answer questions.
> 2) Kamikaze? Maybe someone angry at the police?

Yes! dash cam

From "Out of Control: An Informal History of the Fairfax County Police"

SPEAKING OF ABUSING CHILDREN…………………….
“When honor and the Law no longer stand on the same side of the line, how do we choose?” Anne Bishop

On July 2, 1975, a Fairfax County cop was convicted of assaulting a 16-year old boy. The judge found that the cop punched the boy in the face after the boy got into a fight with a teenage friend of the cop. The police leaped into action and sent the cop home WITH PAY after the conviction.

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Dash cam will answer questions.
> 2) Kamikaze? Maybe someone angry at the police?


FCPD hasn't had dashcams since 2010.



6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> trogdor! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1) Dash cam will answer questions.
> > 2) Kamikaze? Maybe someone angry at the police?
>
> Yes! dash cam
>
>
You're not even trying anymore.

hmmmmm....dont recall seeing where someone was "speaking of abusing children". You must of copied and pasted the wrong story from your shitty book.

As far as your stories, do you have any facts to back them up? Didnt think so!

I bought your book and to be honest, I wish it was longer. Kinda sucks I can only take two more shits before I have to run and grab toilet paper.

Back to topic.....

David R:

The link you posted says "The man's car was heading west and hit the police car, which was heading east, responding to an emergency, according to NBC4......"

Now before I call tell YOU to "check you're own facts" yourself, I'll keep in mind that the Kingstown Patch updated their article in to be in line with what most media outlets confirmed and what Fairfax Co. Police stated in their press release today.

Another point on another comment you made..."If this was the case then it is possible the civilian driver was just making a left turn as rex indicated. We may never know for sure....."

I already made the comment that he was possibly trying to make a left hand turn, but onto Gum St. There was little to NO debris on 644 Westbound lanes, just about all of it in the EASTbound lanes.

It's not that rare for a car to burst into flames...my son's did...please be aware that somewhere tonight a family is grieving a son, brother, grandson, nephew, etc. (I'm assuming the other driver was a male). Please be kind in your comments, because they eventually will read this.

Some FCPD cruisers have drive-cam, and some do not.
Every cruiser has a GPS indicator that denotes time, speed, and direction of travel. So does the fire department. So, looking at the records, it's not hard to determine where the police car was headed, and how fast it was going. (a simple FOIA request will tell you).
The officer was driving east, the other guy was traveling west on Franconia road.
He (the wormfood) was driving at a very high rate of speed, I'm guessing.

A collision occurred that killed a man

I'm guessing the cop was doing 45-50 and the other guy was doing 65-70 based on the damage and fact that the other car burst into flames (also, the civilian died and the cop lived, meaning that the civilian was probably going faster; I.E. driving more like an asshole)

Have any of you drive for Franconia road between South Van Dorn and Rose Hill Drive? You know that big sweeping bend near he auto-zone, the post office, etc... Between Jane way and la vista? People regularly speed through that roadway and very frequently are doing x2-2.5 the speed limit (I.E. ~100mph) there.
So for all you aasholes who bitch about cops "not doing doing their jobs" whe. They're writing you tickets for speeding, maybe you should think twice


Maybe if cops enforced that section of roadway...

Maybe if cops gave more tickets out for speeding/wreckless driving...

Maybe then, through prevention, people would drive more safely and therefor not drive at excessive speeds which contribute to the serious accidents which happen along this stretch of road


Any statistic on how deadly franconia road is?? Compared to other non-highway roads in the county??


The rest is foggy, at best

Mom of an Angel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not that rare for a car to burst into
> flames...my son's did...please be aware that


> somewhere tonight a family is grieving a son,
> brother, grandson, nephew, etc. (I'm assuming the
> other driver was a male). Please be kind in your
> comments, because they eventually will read this.


Are you fuckinh retarded?
Cars dont "often burst into flames.".
It IS very rare. Cars have numerous failsafe devices engineered into their manufacturing to prevent this.

Ir cars burst into flames as much as you think they were, wouldn't Orr "fender benders" have such evidence? ( think 66 or 495 during rush hour when a 1-lane accident results in 4-lanes blocked; have you ever seen anything on fire?)

Cars only catch fire when there's such excessive speed that overcomes the safety design of modern cars. Meaning; if you drive like a dumbass, you'll die like a dumbass.

It's RECKless driving, not wreckless driving.

"I'm guessing the cop was doing 45-50 and the other guy was doing 65-70 based on the damage and fact that the other car burst into flames (also, the civilian died and the cop lived, meaning that the civilian was probably going faster; I.E. driving more like an asshole)"


This is wrong, a vehicle going 5mph that is hit by another vehicle going 100mph can STILL burst into flames - even though it was going slower.

The type of vehicle is what would determine if that vehicle likely to catch fire in an accident - NOT how fast it is going verse another car.

Where do these dumb-asses come from?

WJce9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I'm guessing the cop was doing 45-50 and the
> other guy was doing 65-70 based on the damage and
> fact that the other car burst into flames (also,
> the civilian died and the cop lived, meaning that
> the civilian was probably going faster; I.E.
> driving more like an asshole)"
>
>
> This is wrong, a vehicle going 5mph that is hit by
> another vehicle going 100mph can STILL burst into
> flames - even though it was going slower.
>
> The type of vehicle is what would determine if
> that vehicle likely to catch fire in an accident -
> NOT how fast it is going verse another car.
>
> Where do these dumb-asses come from?


So what type of vehicle?

Let's see...it's pretty obvious from the pictures in this thread!!

A crown Victoria VS a Nissan infinite...





So tell me, o wise one based on the "types of cars involved," which one was "more likely to burst in flames".



My answer? Neither is more likely. Both are late model and modern sedans. My guess (which is as good as yours) is that divine intervention killed the asshole at fault / the reckless (thanks, Troop, Auocorrect got me on that one) driver

Make model and year Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WJce9 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "I'm guessing the cop was doing 45-50 and the
> > other guy was doing 65-70 based on the damage
> and
> > fact that the other car burst into flames
> (also,
> > the civilian died and the cop lived, meaning
> that
> > the civilian was probably going faster; I.E.
> > driving more like an asshole)"
> >
> >
> > This is wrong, a vehicle going 5mph that is hit
> by
> > another vehicle going 100mph can STILL burst
> into
> > flames - even though it was going slower.
> >
> > The type of vehicle is what would determine if
> > that vehicle likely to catch fire in an accident
> -
> > NOT how fast it is going verse another car.
> >
> > Where do these dumb-asses come from?
>
>
> So what type of vehicle?
>
> Let's see...it's pretty obvious from the pictures
> in this thread!!
>
> A crown Victoria VS a Nissan infinite...
>
>
>
>
>
> So tell me, o wise one based on the "types of cars
> involved," which one was "more likely to burst in
> flames".
>
>
>
> My answer? Neither is more likely. Both are late
> model and modern sedans. My guess (which is as
> good as yours) is that divine intervention killed
> the asshole at fault / the reckless (thanks,
> Troop, Auocorrect got me on that one) driver


Last try to educate you - the SPEED of either vehicle would NOT determine WHICH one would have, or not have, burst into flames.

Could you grasp the idea that if CAR A is sitting still and CAR B crashed into it at 90mph - CAR A STILL COULD BE THE ONE THAT CATCHES FIRE? Can you use logic and see that the SPEED of either vehicle is independent of the results?

Once you realize this simple FACT, then you will no longer look like an ass.

I do realize that. Your point is noted.

So explain to me how the speed of a car is independant of the cause of fire
Vs.

The "type" of car is dependent of the cause of fire



Please...enlighten me.

ANY vehicle can catch fire after an accident. There are several factors that determine if a car catches fire. 1 of the biggest is...Amount of damage to fuel system. This could be fuel lines, gas tank, etc. Damage the fuel system causing fuel to leak and inducing a spark will cause a fire.

6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WoW, when I said he crossed the line it was a pun.
> I didn't say it was before the accident. If the
> cop was going west he is on the wrong side of the
> line. How he got there I don't know. Both cars
> ended up in the east bound lanes near Gordons
> house


Again you are assuming things from what you think you see in this picture or other pictures on the news. Where the cars impacted was not even close to this intersection. If Gordon lives near here, he can take pictures of where police painted the street to mark things. That could answer a lot of things such was were the cars first hit and where they came to rest.

GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ANY vehicle can catch fire after an accident.
> There are several factors that determine if a car
> catches fire. 1 of the biggest is...Amount of
> damage to fuel system. This could be fuel lines,
> gas tank, etc. Damage the fuel system causing fuel
> to leak and inducing a spark will cause a fire.


How does fuel leaking induce a spark exactly????
And what are the "other factors" that determine if a car catches fire????


Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Are you a collision expert? A fireman? Ab accident reconstruction officer? A mechanic? An engineer? Anything??????

There are 4 to 6 police cars in all of fairfax that MAY have cameras. All the cameras were removed from all the cars a few years ago. Plus only half of the police stations even had cameras when they were used. There were no police cars with cameras in them until a few months ago. They are testing new camera systems and have put these test systems in a few cars around the county to test. There was maybe 4 to 6 cars that had the test systems. AND these test systems may not even be in cars still as the testing maybe over.

Here are the facts, The nissan was driving at a high rate of speed WB on Franconia Road and had was being reported by a citizen who was calling 911 when the accident occurred. The police cruise happen to be coming in the opposite direction EB in the far right lane. The Nissan swerved to the left into the EB lanes and hit the cruiser head on. The citizen who was calling 911 was the first on the scene and tried to extricate the officer. Officers responding to assist passed me on Franconia Rd. I watched the aftermath. In this case the officer was in the right and happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or maybe the right time, otherwise this driver would have taken out a citizen. From Alexandria VA.

It wasn't a Nissan...so your "facts" clearly are incorrect.

Ref GB comments: That's was the live on scene news is also reporting in Washington. COPs in the right on this one.

Sorry little gb, Infiniti and Nissan look the same to me, particularly crashed. and I was there. Where are you.



One man is dead and a police officer is in the hospital after a head-on crash in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County.

The accident happened near the intersection of Franconia Road and Gum Street shortly before 3 a.m. Monday.

A Fairfax County police officer was headed eastbound when someone driving an Infiniti in the opposite direction veered into the officer's lane and struck the cruiser head-on, authorities said.

The Infiniti burst into flames. The driver, believed to be the only person in the car, died in the fire.

The police cruiser's front end crumpled, trapping the officer inside, but the passenger compartment was left relatively intact. The officer was able to radio for help and was pulled from the vehicle. He was transported to a hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

The officer may have been responding to a non-emergency call. He wasn't using police lights or sirens.

Authorities are still investigating the crash.

Cars don't "burst" into flames. They slowly ignite and the death of the occupant is exquisitely slow and painful. Death by fire is the most heinous of all.



I wonder if there would be this much concern if the police cruiser was a civilian vehicle. I doubt it.


Apparently, all of you "pig hsters" actually hold these officers of the law to a higher standard than even you yourselves realize.

Fire expert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ANY vehicle can catch fire after an accident.
> > There are several factors that determine if a
> car
> > catches fire. 1 of the biggest is...Amount of
> > damage to fuel system. This could be fuel
> lines,
> > gas tank, etc. Damage the fuel system causing
> fuel
> > to leak and inducing a spark will cause a fire.
>
>
> How does fuel leaking induce a spark exactly????
> And what are the "other factors" that determine if
> a car catches fire????
>
>
> Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
> Are you a collision expert? A fireman? Ab accident
> reconstruction officer? A mechanic? An engineer?
> Anything??????


Reading is a key here. I did not say leaking fuel will induce a spark...I said "Damage the fuel system causing fuel to leak and inducing a spark will cause a fire." I meant inducing a spark to the leaking fuel.

Lets break this down. What is a fuel system in a vehicle? In simple terms its a container with gas in it. What are some things that cause gas to start burning? An ignition source. What is an ignition source? Sparks..maybe. What are some things that can cause sparks? Metal impacting other metal or pavement.Things that happen during high speed impacts causing massive damage to vehicles.

Do your own test if you doubt me. Fill a small glass bottle with gas. This will be your fuel system. Break the bottle causing the gas to leak. This could be your fuel system being damaged and leaking fuel. Start making sparks next to the gas. Let us know what happens. I suggest you do this in a proper place with proper safety.

Or another test is walk out to your car, punch a hole in your gas tank or cut a fuel line in the engine area, wait a few seconds, light a match and place on the leaking gas. Let us know what happens.

I do not recommend the second test. Do either test at your own risk. What do you think burns when a car accident happens. Its gas. And sometimes oil.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Deadly-Police-Crash-in-Alexandria-165956756.html

GB, I am with you on this, above is DC channel 4 coverage. I have done a lot of traveling. Fairfax County PD is actually a good to great department compared to others. Hey, it doesn't always have to be negative about these guys.

The cars definitely end up up resting close to one another as seen in the picture, you can see the rear bumper of the cops car with the original paint burned off from the flames coming off the deceased car.

@ little gb.....Nissan makes infiniti so if he called it a Nissan he's still basically right. Same body style and chassis system. You have made a lot of dumb posts on this blog. Do u ever think before u type?

GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fire expert Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GFR Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ANY vehicle can catch fire after an accident.
> > > There are several factors that determine if a
> > car
> > > catches fire. 1 of the biggest is...Amount of
> > > damage to fuel system. This could be fuel
> > lines,
> > > gas tank, etc. Damage the fuel system causing
> > fuel
> > > to leak and inducing a spark will cause a
> fire.
> >
> >
> > How does fuel leaking induce a spark
> exactly????
> > And what are the "other factors" that determine
> if
> > a car catches fire????
> >
> >
> > Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
> > Are you a collision expert? A fireman? Ab
> accident
> > reconstruction officer? A mechanic? An
> engineer?
> > Anything??????
>
>
> Reading is a key here. I did not say leaking fuel
> will induce a spark...I said "Damage the fuel
> system causing fuel to leak and inducing a spark
> will cause a fire." I meant inducing a spark to
> the leaking fuel.
>
> Lets break this down. What is a fuel system in a
> vehicle? In simple terms its a container with gas
> in it. What are some things that cause gas to
> start burning? An ignition source. What is an
> ignition source? Sparks..maybe. What are some
> things that can cause sparks? Metal impacting
> other metal or pavement.Things that happen during
> high speed impacts causing massive damage to
> vehicles.
>
> Do your own test if you doubt me. Fill a small
> glass bottle with gas. This will be your fuel
> system. Break the bottle causing the gas to leak.
> This could be your fuel system being damaged and
> leaking fuel. Start making sparks next to the gas.
> Let us know what happens. I suggest you do this in
> a proper place with proper safety.
>
> Or another test is walk out to your car, punch a
> hole in your gas tank or cut a fuel line in the
> engine area, wait a few seconds, light a match and
> place on the leaking gas. Let us know what
> happens.
>
> I do not recommend the second test. Do either test
> at your own risk. What do you think burns when a
> car accident happens. Its gas. And sometimes oil.


After the collision...
After: where are sources of ignition?


If cars "burst" into flames as easily and often as you say, then why doesn't tis happen more often? Where's the evidence?


You're mind is warped by your Hollywood action movies

WJLA identified the civilian driver:


Fairfax County Police have identified a man killed when his car crashed head-on into a marked cruiser in the Franconia area of Alexandria on Monday.

The driver, 52-year-old Jeffrey M. Woods, of Alexandria, was pronounced dead at the scene, police say.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/08/fairfax-county-fatal-crash-kills-one-78749.html

"WOODS ","JEFFREY ","A","043"," 300","FOX CHASE APT #202 "," ","FREDERICKSBR","VA","01/21/2008","75-79MPH/55MPH ZONE "
"WOODS ","JEFFREY ","M","050"," 6008","BROOKVIEW ","DR","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","05/04/2009","DISREGARD TRAFFIC LIGHTS "

Jeff was a nice guy and sponsored fun events for the neighborhood. I feel bad that it ended like this for him.

Is it just me or does Fairfax County PD have an extremely high number of crashes that result in fatalities?

Just because someone does something that is irresponsible, does not mean they deserve to die. And actually I have seen cars catch on fire that are not even in accidents...research that!!

Mr Jones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it just me or does Fairfax County PD have an
> extremely high number of crashes that result in
> fatalities?




It's just you.

Fairfax County is almost 400 square miles and has a population around 1.25 million people. That's a lot of people. And it takes a lot of cops on streets to manage. This area in particular loves to highlight the police department any chance they get But some simple facts:

Accidents occur all the time.
EACH YEAR: 6 million accidents causing 3 million persons injured and roughly 40,000 people dead.

Around 100 people die PER DAY in traffic collisions in the U.S.
That's a death almost every 15 minutes or so.

Mr Jones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it just me or does Fairfax County PD have an
> extremely high number of crashes that result in
> fatalities?


fixed that for ya

I've been saying it all along haven't I? The cops are now aiming for us innocent motorists and ramming our vehicles like heat seeking missiles to KILL US ALL! POLICE STATE!!!

Had pending DWI/speeding 20+ over charges in Alexandria

... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Had pending DWI/speeding 20+ over charges in
> Alexandria

The civilian that is

Iknoweverythingandyoudont Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fire expert Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > GFR Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > ANY vehicle can catch fire after an
> accident.
> > > > There are several factors that determine if
> a
> > > car
> > > > catches fire. 1 of the biggest is...Amount
> of
> > > > damage to fuel system. This could be fuel
> > > lines,
> > > > gas tank, etc. Damage the fuel system
> causing
> > > fuel
> > > > to leak and inducing a spark will cause a
> > fire.
> > >
> > >
> > > How does fuel leaking induce a spark
> > exactly????
> > > And what are the "other factors" that
> determine
> > if
> > > a car catches fire????
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you have any idea what you're talking
> about?
> > > Are you a collision expert? A fireman? Ab
> > accident
> > > reconstruction officer? A mechanic? An
> > engineer?
> > > Anything??????
> >
> >
> > Reading is a key here. I did not say leaking
> fuel
> > will induce a spark...I said "Damage the fuel
> > system causing fuel to leak and inducing a
> spark
> > will cause a fire." I meant inducing a spark to
> > the leaking fuel.
> >
> > Lets break this down. What is a fuel system in
> a
> > vehicle? In simple terms its a container with
> gas
> > in it. What are some things that cause gas to
> > start burning? An ignition source. What is an
> > ignition source? Sparks..maybe. What are some
> > things that can cause sparks? Metal impacting
> > other metal or pavement.Things that happen
> during
> > high speed impacts causing massive damage to
> > vehicles.
> >
> > Do your own test if you doubt me. Fill a small
> > glass bottle with gas. This will be your fuel
> > system. Break the bottle causing the gas to
> leak.
> > This could be your fuel system being damaged
> and
> > leaking fuel. Start making sparks next to the
> gas.
> > Let us know what happens. I suggest you do this
> in
> > a proper place with proper safety.
> >
> > Or another test is walk out to your car, punch
> a
> > hole in your gas tank or cut a fuel line in the
> > engine area, wait a few seconds, light a match
> and
> > place on the leaking gas. Let us know what
> > happens.
> >
> > I do not recommend the second test. Do either
> test
> > at your own risk. What do you think burns when
> a
> > car accident happens. Its gas. And sometimes
> oil.
>
>
> After the collision...
> After: where are sources of ignition?
>
>
> If cars "burst" into flames as easily and often as
> you say, then why doesn't tis happen more often?
> Where's the evidence?
>
>
> You're mind is warped by your Hollywood action
> movies


Again...Reading is key. Go back and at look at what I posted. I never once said cars explode or "burst" into flames. I said that any car can catch fire. I went on to explain that if you damage the fuel system enough then fuel leaks.

You are confusing my post with what others posted about speed of vehicles or types of cars etc etc. And these are factors but are not the only factors to determine if a car catches fire during or after an accident.

As far as what causes sparks after an impact. These questions are starting to get just plain dumb. Do you think the only thing that happens when two cars impact are they hit and then nothing. If you want to talk low speed minor accident then this would be correct. however we are discussing high speed impacts. After cars hit, they spin, roll, come apart, etc etc. Metal from cars drag against the pavement as they continue moving after the first impact. This can cause sparks. Even after cars come to rest, parts of them are still very very hot. Hot enough to ignite gas. Some parts the engine also continue to do things that can also cause sparks.

Nothing I have posted has anything to Hollywood dumb ass. Why don't you go google physics of high speed motor vehicle accidents (or someting like it)and start reading. Learn a few things about physcis and mix that with some knowledge of cars.

The Facts Ma'am Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "WOODS ","JEFFREY ","A","043"," 300","FOX CHASE APT #202 "," ","FREDERICKSBR","VA","01/21/2008","75-79MPH/55MPH ZONE"

> "WOODS ","JEFFREY ","M","050","6008","BROOKVIEW ","DR","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","05/04/2009","DISREGARD TRAFFIC LIGHTS "

This guy had serious problems, aging 7 years in just 14 months.

Or maybe, just maybe, you got the wrong guy.

This could have been his motive. Woods, Jeffrey M was arrested on August 10 in Alexandria for Speeding, Failure to obey highway sign, and DWI.

... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Had pending DWI/speeding 20+ over charges in
> Alexandria

It appears the second Jeffrey Woods is the correct one.

He was making a left turn. Apparently the police car was speeding with no emergency lights, he misjudged the speed, tried to correct at the last second by turning right, and failed.

Some previous posts give good information and having lived in this area, I filtered the following:

-Jeffrey was arrested on Friday for 1st DWI and over 20+ mph speeding. (he may have spent the night in jail)

-Two nights later a citizen reports a vehicle speeding excessively down Franconia, westbound

-Jeffrey lives north of Franconia, and would have taken a right to go home. Jeffrey swerved his vehicle left and hit a police cruiser head on.

This road is fairly dead at 3AM. The crash site is beyond the Rose Hill sweep and the road is fairly straight. The police car was likely the only other car on the road. Gum Street is essentially a dead end and nothing for him to be taking a left to anyway.

What am I missing here?

If he was arrested Friday for DWI, his license would have still been in the mandatory 7 day admin suspension phase.

Edit: i.e. he shouldn't have been driving



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2012 08:58PM by Clobbersaurus.

Trapped in a burning car that catches on fire is my #1 way to go. If only we all were so lucky. I imagine something like one of these going 100 mph on flames with some major screaming...
Attachments:

Ambulance chasers line up for a big pay. Fairfax County will write a big check to the estate of the late departed driver.

STones. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trapped in a burning car that catches on fire is
> my #1 way to go. If only we all were so lucky. I
> imagine something like one of these going 100 mph
> on flames with some major screaming...


I am willing to bet he was dead from impact prior to burning.

Perry Mason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ambulance chasers line up for a big pay. Fairfax
> County will write a big check to the estate of the
> late departed driver.


Sorry to disappoint you. This time its going to be this guys estate and insurance paying the county and the cop.

Official Analysis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was making a left turn. Apparently the police
> car was speeding with no emergency lights, he
> misjudged the speed, tried to correct at the last
> second by turning right, and failed.


He was not making a left turn. The first impact point was NOT at the intersection. Where you see the cars at in the pictures is at an intersection but this where the cars came to rest. Based upon how much force was in play during this accident, I would bet the first impact happened several 100 feet from the intersection.

cop is innocent - was the other guy who drove into the interceptor head-on............

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/08/14/driver-identified-in-fatal-head-on-collision-monday-that-closed-franconia-road/

and GFR is right, the crash actually happened closer to those trees next to that white house across the street from the Gulf instead of next to the Kindercare.................

Fatal Crash on Franconia Road
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2012/081312fatalcrashfranconiaroad.htm

Fairfax County Police Department
Public Information Office
4100 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Va. 22030
703-246-2253. TTY 703-204-2264. Fax 703-246-4253
FCPD-PIO@fairfaxcounty.gov
www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police
News Release: 12/226/0034/drg(6)
August 13, 2012



Fatal Crash on Franconia Road
Franconia Police District – Crash reconstruction detectives are investigating a fatal crash that occurred on Franconia Road near the intersection of Gum Street on Monday, August 13 just before 3 a.m.

A Fairfax County police officer used the radio in his cruiser to notify the dispatcher that he had been involved in a crash. The preliminary investigation determined that the officer was traveling eastbound on Franconia Road approaching the intersection of Gum Street. A 2006 Infiniti was traveling westbound on Franconia Road also approaching the intersection of Gum Street. The Infiniti suddenly veered left and struck the police cruiser head-on. The Infiniti caught fire. The officer was initially trapped in his vehicle. He was eventually extricated and transported to a local hospital with serious, but non life-threatening injuries. The driver of the Infiniti, an adult male, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Detectives will attempt to determine if speed and alcohol were factors in this crash. The Office of the Chief Medical Examiner will attempt to positively identify the driver of the Infiniti.

Anyone with information is asked to contact Crime Solvers by phone at 1-866-411-TIPS/8477, e-mail at www.fairfaxcrimesolvers.org or text “TIP187” plus your message to CRIMES/274637 or call Fairfax County Police at 703-691-2131.

Deceased Identified in Fatal Crash
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2012/081412updatefatal.htm

Fairfax County Police Department
Public Information Office
4100 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Va. 22030
703-246-2253. TTY 703-204-2264. Fax 703-246-4253
FCPD-PIO@fairfaxcounty.gov
www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police
News Release: 12/226/0034/drg (6)
August 14, 2012



UPDATE
The deceased in this crash has been identified as 52-year-old Jeffrey M. Woods of 6008 Brookview Drive in Alexandria.

Detectives learned that a motorist heard the crash, went to the scene and assisted the officer in getting out of his police cruiser.

GFR: So if what you are saying is corrent, is it reaonable to assume then that since the much heavier car was obviously the police cruiser, the impact would have taken both cars, which came to rest very close together, several hundred feet in the direction (east) the cop car was moving, or alternatively, assuming the Infinity was traveling at say, 80 MPH for kicks, and the cruiser was doing, say 35MPH, for kicks, that the force of the impact would have taken both cars in a westerly direction; i.e. the direction the faster-moving Infinity was traveling - even through the police cruiser might have been twice as heavy?

Does anyone know for sure exactly where the initial debris field from impact was in relatioon to the final resting place of the cars, and whether it was east or west of the final resting place? That might provide an important clue of what really happened here.

Curious Again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GFR: So if what you are saying is corrent, is it
> reaonable to assume then that since the much
> heavier car was obviously the police cruiser, the
> impact would have taken both cars, which came to
> rest very close together, several hundred feet in
> the direction (east) the cop car was moving, or
> alternatively, assuming the Infinity was traveling
> at say, 80 MPH for kicks, and the cruiser was
> doing, say 35MPH, for kicks, that the force of the
> impact would have taken both cars in a westerly
> direction; i.e. the direction the faster-moving
> Infinity was traveling - even through the police
> cruiser might have been twice as heavy?
>
> Does anyone know for sure exactly where the
> initial debris field from impact was in relatioon
> to the final resting place of the cars, and
> whether it was east or west of the final resting
> place? That might provide an important clue of
> what really happened here.


If I get what you mean....say the police car is going east at 40mph and the other car is going west at ..umm..90mph and they hit head on. I do not know the weight of each vehicle but yes...most likely the police car would be forced back with other car still going forward. If I am even close to being right, this would mean based upon the pictures and google maps that the impact point would have been east of Gum Street. The police would have marked most of the important locations and items with spray paint. We just need somebody to take pictures of those marks. The impact point would most likely be deep gashes in the pavement.

Why did torched guy cross three lanes plus the turn lane on a straight deserted road to hit a police car head on?

To get to the other side?

Crash reconstruction should be able to tell us how fast each car was traveling, and whether there was any mechanical failure on the torched car.

I filled up across the street yesterday. On the south side of Franconia (in front of the Kinder Care), there are police paint marks on the curb, gouges in the curb and damaged grass for a good 50 feet east of the final resting spots. The collision drove both cars west, with (I believe) the Infiniti continuing to the south somewhat and striking the curb very hard.

So if the heavier police cruiser was forced in the opposite direction (west) of the direction it was traveling by the lighter Infinity, as the evidence Joey M uncovered suggests, then it is pretty much a certainty that the Infinity hit the cruiser going quite significantly faster than the police cruiser was going. So from reading the prior posts all the way back to the beginning, this guy has "had some issues" and those who apparently knew him were not sure if this was an accident. Add to this the fact he had been arrested for a first offense DUI two days prior, along with 20 MPH over the speed limit and running a red light, and may have spent the night in jail. He may have been unstable, or at least very angry, and had a chip on his shoulder against the police. So two days later he is out on the road speeding and runing red lights again for whatever reason, and another motorist picks up their cell phone and reports this reckless driving to the police. The cruiser is dispatched east on Franconia from the Franconia police station, to intercept the reported speeder. The speeder in the Infinity and the cop car are apparently the only ones on the road at just before 3am, quickly approaching each other in opposite directions on Franconia Rd. They see each other from maybe 1000-1500 ft away, maybe more, in the well lit commercial vecinity of Franconia Rd. just east of Van Dorn st. The driver of the Infinity, who has been for the last couple of days feeling that his life, maybe his career, maybe his social life, maybe his pride, whatever, was runied by being arrested the previous Friday, and also being very angry at police, (maybe he felt mistreated, or maybe he felt his arrest was unwarranted, whatever) sees the police car, sees that it IS a police car, and makes a split second decision to have his revenge. Maybe he had been drinking again, who knows - but he saw the cop car, saw that is WAS a cop car, and decided to pull a kamikaze move and end his own misery and take out a cop while he was at it. So he floored it, swerved into the cop's lane at the last second before the cop even had time to react, and the rest is history. The facts as they are adding up to this point seem to suggest this possibility, but not for certain. Sure something could have gone mechanically wrong with the Infinity. Maybe the driver was drunk again and/or speeding and/or hit a slick spot and simply lost control of the car somehow. But it just seems odd under the known circumstances that such an occurrence would happen - a civilian car maneuvering over three lanes of traffic and ploughing at full speed head-on into a police car of all other possible vehicles on the road, simply by chance. It looks as if it could have been very much intentional. We will probably never know. But this may well have been a new twist on the concept of "suicide by cop." Regardless, this was a tradgedy no matter what caused it, who was at fault, if anybody, and all should keep both the policeman involved and the civilian involved, and their loved ones, in their thoughts and prayers. This was a horrible incident.

How about a twist on your "Einstien" theory... if you love conspiracy theories so much as you apparently do, and I hate people who love conspiracy theoris. I don't know then why would you think, if this guy was really trying to kill himself that "another motorist saw him speeding and called the police" If he was really trying to commit "suicide by cop" don't you think he would have been the one to call the police himself to report his own location, and then waited for the cop to come and then floored it into the cop car when he saw him coming? That sounds more likely if what you say holds any water whatsoever, which I doubt. People don't just make a "split second" decision to commit suicide. Most suicides are well planned. People who are close to the person are usually warned many times in advance of the person's plan to kill themself. So all you need to do is check the guys cell phone records to see if he called the police on himself just before the accident. If not, then probably not suicide.

I think Einstein nailed it. I don't think anything was planned, but maybe this night was one last fling with what he liked to do. Realize that based on new Virginia law, upon the first DWI the Infiniti would soon be installed with an interlock device to prevent his car from starting if he drinks too much. And he pays $70 a month out of his own pocket for this. I would like to be positive and think that he didn't mean to take his life. Maybe he was implementing that emergency plan to get home.. you know, the one we all dream up about escaping the police in our fast car when we want to get home. He would have soon taken a right on Brookland Road and then two quick rights to get to his house. He has a lot of property and parks well out of sight from the road. Maybe he was swerving at the police to gain an edge in order to get home. Maybe the police slowed down and turned slightly left, getting ready to go after him.

Maybe not as convinced Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a twist on your "Einstien" theory... if
> you love conspiracy theories so much as you
> apparently do, and I hate people who love
> conspiracy theoris. I don't know then why would
> you think, if this guy was really trying to kill
> himself that "another motorist saw him speeding
> and called the police" If he was really trying to
> commit "suicide by cop" don't you think he would
> have been the one to call the police himself to
> report his own location, and then waited for the
> cop to come and then floored it into the cop car
> when he saw him coming? That sounds more likely if
> what you say holds any water whatsoever, which I
> doubt. People don't just make a "split second"
> decision to commit suicide. Most suicides are well
> planned. People who are close to the person are
> usually warned many times in advance of the
> person's plan to kill themself. So all you need to
> do is check the guys cell phone records to see if
> he called the police on himself just before the
> accident. If not, then probably not suicide.

So, your suggesting suicidal people are rational? um....Nice!

I would agree with Einstein but I dont think he knew it was a cop. Anyone ever looked at headlights from even 500' away and could tell what kind of car it was? Plus, in that area at that time, there are lots of Taxi's out and about who drive a very similar vehicle with the same lights.

Anyways, the good news is that this thread will save the taxpayers lots of money. Now the FCPD can fire all their crash reconstruction people and for the next fatality they can just post pictures on here so all you fucktards can figure the course of events out.

A reminder of why I usually stay away from this site. Fucktards that share information on a subject and then declare everyone else a fucktard for being interested. Your fucktardom is classic, true and complete.

Suicidal people are NOT rational. But the diagnostic criteria indicate that people who are not thinking "rationally" are not necessarily incablable of "organized thinking." Organized thinking is all that is necessary to intricately plan a suicide, even though the thinking is not necessarily "rational." Here is an excerpt about diagnosing suicidality:

Sometimes professionals assess suicide risk by using an assessment scale. One such scale is called the SAD PERSONS Scale, which identifies risk factors for suicide as follows:

Sex (male)
Age younger than 19 or older than 45 years of age
Depression (severe enough to be considered clinically significant)
Previous suicide attempt or received mental-health services of any kind
Excessive alcohol or other drug use
Rational thinking lost
Separated, divorced, or widowed (or other ending of significant relationship)
Organized suicide plan or serious attempt
No or little social support
Sickness or chronic medical illness

So a person who has lost the ability to "think rationally" can nonetheless have an "organized suicide plan." Many of these criteria above we know applied to the person in question and many others could even though we don't know it. I think that is what the other posters were talking about, organized thinking, if this individual actually did plan the suicide and call the police on himself. And get off it people. This is a discussion forum. Name-calling and obscenity reflect only on the person making that particular post, and it really detracts from anything else intelligent that person might have to say. (Yes I am talking about YOU Fu!) It does not reflect on the people who are making a good-faith effort to try and figure things out or make sense of a tragedy.

Hold your horses right there oh mighty Suicidal1. Are you suggesting my post was intelligent? Please said it isnt so.

In all seriousness....and no offense, but in my opinion anything written by a psychologist or psychiatrist must be taken lightly. These people are nut-jobs themselves (and sorry if that "detracts" from anything else intelligent I may say).

I know Im kind of getting off topic but Riddle me this. If these psychologist and psychiatrists were such great and/or knowledgable professionals explain the most recent shooting in Colorado or any other person who has committed a mass casualty type crime in recent history (Ft. Hood, VT, the Amish schoolhouse, etc.) Its known all these fucktards (and I seriously think the name calling is acceptable here) saw or were seen by a quack.

Also, I might add these assessments and risk factor scales are just that. If you think for one minute they apply to all of society your sorely mistaken.

Sincerely
Fu

Fu,

It is very telling that you are excited that I might have referred to something you said as intelligent. Actually I was speaking generally. You are obviously a person with a great need for peer support. Like the bullies on the playground. Like the Colorado shooter and that ilk. You are probably highly intelligent with an IQ above 150, like the Colorado shooter and Tim McVeigh, the September 11th terrorists, Columbine shooters, and many other genocidal, mentally ill individuals. These are highly intelligent but irrational, mentally ill people who like to go out in a "blaze of glory" - all of them want to either die in the process of performing their magnum opus, or get caught shortly after the fact. All of them leave clues. E.g. Tim McVeigh has a getaway car with no license plates on it just for the purpose that he HOPED to get caught, and did (and as he well knew, eventually die for what he did). The college board in Colorado who was dealing with the drop-out of the Colorado shooter believed him to be dangerous, but were afraid to say anything because of the potential liability of doing so.

Mental health professioanls cannot prevent these things with absolute certainty. There are not enough resources to control the behaviors of the mentally ill because the mentally ill, like the rest of us, have constitutional rights that supercede the concerns of mental health professionals. Unless there is a specifically articulated, future threat, to the safety of the mentally ill person himself, or others, the mental health professional's hands are tied, even though their gut tells them that this particular person is a ticking time-bomb. If they report someone who they believe is dangerous, but that person has not verbally dictated a specific threat, that report could be made at the cost of the mental health professional's license to practice medicine. This is our system as it now stands. If you want to educate yourself in detail about this, Google "E. Fuller Torrey". He has for years advocated changes in the law that would unbind the hands of mental health professionals when it comes to people those professionals believe to be dangerous in the absence of a specifically articulated threat.

Interestingly, I actually agree with you that many mental health professionals are themselves, as you say, "nut jobs." The suicide rate is very high among mental health professionals, just like it is among cops. But even if a mental health professional does not think rationally, they may, like cops, and like the other people they treat, be capable of "organized thinking" like the suicidal people they treat; perhaps to a degree that makes them capable of continued practice. I disagree with you that these precepts do not apply to "all of society." - They certainly do - and defintiely to you - because as the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland said: "We're ALL a little mad here....."

There is a point in any individual's life at which they will crack under stress. For some it does not take much, for others it might take waterboarding or some kind of torture, but we all have our cracking point. The civilian driver on Monday morning had obviously reached his. What YOU need to be thinking about is where, at what point, you will reach yours. If posting forums such as this one can lead you into uncivil behaviors and bad-mouthing your fellow citizens in the way that you do, I guarentee you are closer to your "cracking point" than you think. You might even be the next person to run your car head-on into a police cruiser.

Suicidal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
You are probably highly intelligent with an IQ above 150.....


Your diagnosis is completely wrong.....My IQ is only 148.

I do have one questions for you then Id like to get back on topic. Am I reading your post correctly that bad-mouthing your fellow citizens can lead to suicide?

Anyways, back to the crash.....

Sure, having antisocial personality disorder - which is your diagnosis - DSMIVR 301.7 - CAN leand to suicide because when you cut yourself off from everyone else in your life that can lead to the secondary diagnosis of depression, which can then lead to suicide. But people with antisocial personality disorder have a complete disregard for social norms, are impulsive, irritable, and agressive, have a reckless disregard for the health and safety of others, lie, use alieses, con others for personal profit or pleasure, are consistantly irresponsible, and have lack of remourse and are indifferent to, or rationalize, the mistreatment of others. This diagnosis applies to you based on your behaviors indicated in your pattern of posts on this web site.

But I was not suggesting that your behaviors indicate that you are currently suicidal. To the contrary, I think you are much more likely to be homicidal. I do not think anyone here would disagree with me. People like you are scary. You are like a road rage person. You think only of yourself and would probably beat anybody who disagrees with you into the dirt if given the slightest opportunity. You should really seek help for yourself before suggesting what others should do.

And if Einstein is corrent, getting back to the crash, it is quite possible that you and the civilian driver share a lot in common, which is probably why you are so interested in this topic. I am not judging you but am just calling them as I see them. Seek help, my friend. With help you could become a happy person and actually fit into society, rather than hanging on the fringes like you do. Seriously.

Your impressive. Didn't realize it was possible to diagnose a psychological disorder by a few posts online.

If I were to seek help I'd like you to be my quack. Post up your info and qualifications.

If I were a practitioner it would not be appropriate for me to treat you personally based upon the circumstances of our acquaintance, and I although am a doctoral scholar on mental health issues, I am not a practitioner, but I do know many very good practitioners and would really like to refer you to somebody that I think could help you. I do not know how to do that based upon this shroud of anonymity that this site maintains, but if you could give me a clue about how to contact you outside this site I know of someone who could truly help you. I would first refer you to a psychologist who could do some talk therapy with you and deal with your issues on a verbal basis. That person could then, if necessary, refer you to a psychiatrist to determine if medication could be of any help to you. My suggestion is that you open an anonymous hotmail e-mail account, go ahead and post the address here, and I (and probably 10,000 idiots) will respond (I ask that please nobody do this). But you will know my response from the others by the information I give you. The alternative to this problematic situation though, is simple. Go to the yellow pages and find a psychologist that deals with personality disorders and find someone near you and give it a try. You might go to more than one person before you find someone you are comfortable with. But getting better is ultimately up to you. You must take the initiative. I know how difficult your life must be. How hard it is to manage your anger and your contempt for others. Something happened along the way in your life to do this to you and it is not your fault. Seeking help is the "big man" way to go. Denying your problems is pathological and definitely the "little man" way to go. This is your opportunity to do something for youself that will change you life for the better forever. People are inherantly good. If you believe this you must believe it about yourself too. You can do this. If I am wrong after you have had a few months of therapy you can come back here and call me a "fucktard" all you want.

so yeah - it's OBVIOUSLY suicide by cop. Happens all the time, right?

couldnt POSSIBLY be anything else, right?

http://www.wtop.com/41/2993032/10000-communities-begin-crackdown-on-drunken-driving

Va. police need help finding good samaritan
Thursday - 8/16/2012, 1:09pm ET
Hank Silverberg, wtop.com


WASHINGTON - Police are looking for a man they say helped an injured police officer escape from a trapped car Monday.

They want to thank him.

The dark-haired man was one of two people who helped the officer after he had been injured in a head-on crash that killed 52-year-old Jeffery Woods on Franconia Road, Fairfax County police say.

Woods' car, an Infiniti, caught fire after the crash.

The injured officer remains in the hospital. Information about his condition has not been released.

Police say they want to hear from witnesses or people who took video at the scene before police arrived.

Anyone with information is asked to call 866-411-8477.

It was Timmy what helped save that feller!

I told you he warn't deaded!

Yea, right.....since when does the POPO thank anyone??

Looks like they are trying to silence our witness.

just want to thank him Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yea, right.....since when does the POPO thank
> anyone??
>
> Looks like they are trying to silence our witness.


I guess you missed the first interview on the news with the witness that saw the car speeding and called 911. He then drove to the accident and helped pull the officer out after hearing the crash. He reports a 2nd guy helping him. So yeah...the police are knocking off the witnesses after letting them talk to the news. Your parents must be proud they raised such a smart child. Now go back and hide in whatever made up world you live in.

Unless the police car was on fire, it makes no sense for the witness to pull the officer from the car.

Had the cop sustained spinal/neck injuries---very likely in a high imact crash--this "helpful" witness did not do this guy any favors.

Suicidal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I were a practitioner

Too long to read. Here, I condensed it for you.

IfIwereapractitioneritwouldnotbeappropriateformetotreatyoupersonallybaseduponthecircumstancesofouracquaintance,andIalthoughamadoctoralscholaronmentalhealthissues,Iamnotapractitioner,butIdoknowmanyverygoodpractitionersandwouldreallyliketoreferyoutosomebodythatIthinkcouldhelpyou.Idonotknowhowtodothatbaseduponthisshroudofanonymitythatthissitemaintains,butifyoucouldgivemeaclueabouthowtocontactyououtsidethissiteIknowofsomeonewhocouldtrulyhelpyou.Iwouldfirstreferyoutoapsychologistwhocoulddosometalktherapywithyouanddealwithyourissuesonaverbalbasis.Thatpersoncouldthen,ifnecessary,referyoutoapsychiatristtodetermineifmedicationcouldbeofanyhelptoyou.Mysuggestionisthatyouopenananonymoushotmaile-mailaccount,goaheadandposttheaddresshere,andI(andprobably10,000idiots)willrespond(Iaskthatpleasenobodydothis).ButyouwillknowmyresponsefromtheothersbytheinformationIgiveyou.Thealternativetothisproblematicsituationthough,issimple.Gototheyellowpagesandfindapsychologistthatdealswithpersonalitydisordersandfindsomeonenearyouandgiveitatry.Youmightgotomorethanonepersonbeforeyoufindsomeoneyouarecomfortablewith.Butgettingbetterisultimatelyuptoyou.Youmusttaketheinitiative.Iknowhowdifficultyourlifemustbe.Howharditistomanageyourangerandyourcontemptforothers.Somethinghappenedalongthewayinyourlifetodothistoyouanditisnotyourfault.Seekinghelpisthe"bigman"waytogo.Denyingyourproblemsispathologicalanddefinitelythe"littleman"waytogo.Thisisyouropportunitytodosomethingforyouselfthatwillchangeyoulifeforthebetterforever.Peopleareinherantlygood.Ifyoubelievethisyoumustbelieveitaboutyourselftoo.Youcandothis.IfIamwrongafteryouhavehadafewmonthsoftherapyyoucancomebackhereandcallmea"fucktard"allyouwant.

Have not talked to the deceased for a few years, but this is a little out
of character for the person we knew. The chatter here got so convoluted that
I still don't understand why the infinity is in flames and the police
cruiser had non fatal impact and the officer quickly extricated without
equipment. Things still don't seem to add up. I am most concerned that
the police car had no lights on, and would like to figure exactly where the
point of impact was. I hope someone is pursuing this on behalf of Mr. Woods.

I worked with Jeff for about 15 years, and he always treated all his coworkers with patience and respect. He was sometimes bemused by the silly things that go on in offices, but he took it all in stride. He had a wonderful sense of humor and brightened up any meeting. He was a free spirit who respected the same freedom in others. He was also very good at his job, and he will be missed by his many friends at work.

too bad he wasn't missed by the cop *rim shot*

Here is another possibility

Here is a report from an Infinity owner:
contact stated while at a stop, the vehicle accelerates. this occurs with the brake pedal depressed. the computer does not store any codes and the dealership is unable to determine the problem. updated 2/13/2006

there are quite a few more reports from infinity drivers in different conditions, highway speeds, slow speeds, stopped etc...

If I remember right, we saw a large-scale problem with Toyota in the past with unexpected acelleration.




Is a fire possible?
if a part is not properly attached, or prematurely wears out, mix in a serious impact, then yes, fire is definitely possible
Here are a couple recalls from earlier model years:
Look at this sentence:
ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE FUEL HOSE CONNECTION FOR THE OUTLET OF THE FUEL PUMP WHICH IS LOCATED AT THE TOP OF THE FUEL TANK MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PROPERLY ATTACHED WHEN THE VEHICLE WAS ASSEMBLED


RECALL: 2003 Infiniti G35
NHTSA Campaign Number: 02V245000

www.nhtsa.dot.gov
Manufacturer NISSAN NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Recall Date: 09/12/2002
Potential Number Of Units Affected: 18300
Description FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:DELIVERY:HOSES, LINES/PIPING, AND FITTINGS
Summary ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE FUEL HOSE CONNECTION FOR THE OUTLET OF THE FUEL PUMP WHICH IS LOCATED AT THE TOP OF THE FUEL TANK MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PROPERLY ATTACHED WHEN THE VEHICLE WAS ASSEMBLED AND COULD COME LOOSE WHILE DRIVING OR WHEN STARTING THE ENGINE.
Consequence IF THE CONNECTION COMES LOOSE WHILE DRIVING, THE ENGINE WILL STOP RUNNING DUE TO LACK OF FUEL, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH. ALSO, IF THE CONNECTION COMES LOOSE WHILE DRIVING OR ATTEMPTING TO START OR RESTART THE ENGINE, SOME FUEL WILL DISCHARGE FROM THE FUEL PUMP. IF THIS SHOULD OCCUR IN THE PRESENCE OF AN EXTERNAL IGNITION SOURCE, A FIRE COULD RESULT.

RECALL: 2003 - 2004 Infiniti G35
NHTSA Campaign Number: 05V555000

www.nhtsa.dot.gov
Manufacturer NISSAN NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Recall Date: NOV 28, 2005
Potential Number Of Units Affected: 192659
Description FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE
Summary FUEL FILLER HOSE MAY CRACK FROM EXPOSURE TO OZONE. FUEL MAY LEAK FROM THE HOSE DURING REFUELING. OWNERS MAY BE WARNED OF THIS CONDITION BY ILLUMINATION OF THE ENGINE MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LIGHT IN THE INSTRUMENT PANEL AS A RESULT OF THE ONBOARD DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM DETECTING A LEAK IN THE EVAPORATIVE EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM.
Consequence FUEL LEAKAGE IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE COULD RESULT IN A FIRE.

Thanks for what you said, "a work friend," about Jeff. I used to work with him, and always liked and admired him. He was such a good guy, so nice, laid-back, and conscientious about his work. Such a terrible loss. It's so hard to believe he is gone. I wonder if he fell asleep or passed out in the car.

The victim that burn alive in the vehicle was at fault. He had mental problems and had been arrested the night before for DWI and driving on a suspended permit

Did the police car swerve severely to the left?

no

Granny Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, I'd also like to add...
>
> 5) Police Assisted Suicide

You know why this site sucks so hard? I said Police Assisted Suicide 6 FUCKING DAYS AGO! Some clown named "Einstein" comes on here, says the same thing and it's a fucking REVELATION? What a joke...

What makes this site bad is that the majority of you post as though you know ANYTHING AT ALL about this accident or the people involved in it.

It also looks like the cruiser was heading east and may have abruptly turned left (to the north) heading onto Old Rolling Rd and his headlights flashed straight at the westbound Infinity. The driver of the Infinity may have judged the lights coming directly at him as someone slowly turning to their left, so the Infinity steered left in a last minute attempt to miss the crossing cruiser, but the cruiser saw the approaching Infinity too late and tried to stop anyway, but just became a slower-moving obstacle that the Infinity could not steer around, so they crashed head-on, with the net force carrying both cars somewhat to the south and west of the original crash impact site.

Websites say a police Crown Vic weights 3900# and a 2006 Infinity weighs 3800#, so they are about the same weight. If they traveled a little to the south and west, the Infinity would have been going a little faster than the Cruiser, which appears to have been slowing down to make the left turn. The net after impact motion would have been to the west and to the south.

That mysterious second person with dark hair that helped the officer out of his cruiser was Jeff, before he departed for the last time.

wheezer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It also looks like the cruiser was heading east
> and may have abruptly turned left (to the north)
> heading onto Old Rolling Rd and his headlights
> flashed straight at the westbound Infinity. The
> driver of the Infinity may have judged the lights
> coming directly at him as someone slowly turning
> to their left, so the Infinity steered left in a
> last minute attempt to miss the crossing cruiser,
> but the cruiser saw the approaching Infinity too
> late and tried to stop anyway, but just became a
> slower-moving obstacle that the Infinity could not
> steer around, so they crashed head-on, with the
> net force carrying both cars somewhat to the south
> and west of the original crash impact site.
>
> Websites say a police Crown Vic weights 3900# and
> a 2006 Infinity weighs 3800#, so they are about
> the same weight. If they traveled a little to the
> south and west, the Infinity would have been going
> a little faster than the Cruiser, which appears to
> have been slowing down to make the left turn. The
> net after impact motion would have been to the
> west and to the south.


Go back to the top and re-read. Neither cars were turning. Your theory sucks.

angel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That mysterious second person with dark hair that
> helped the officer out of his cruiser was Jeff,
> before he departed for the last time.


This was the dumbest full retard thing I've ever seen posted.

wheezer wrote:
> Websites say a police Crown Vic weights 3900# and a 2006 Infinity weighs 3800#,
> so they are about the same weight.

from http://forums.officer.com/t157518/ :

"The curb weight is listed at 4127 for a 2009 Crown Victoria. The average weight of our cars is 5000 lbs."

That seems more like it. There's no way a stock Infinity is going to weigh the same as a fully outfitted police cruiser. The extra batteries alone probably weigh over 100lbs. I wonder if they upgrade the brakes to compensate for the extra mass?