I'm reading about Obama's frustration with getting votes from white blue collar workers in today's Post. There are towns where the factories have been gone for 25 years and Obama describes the people as bitter and "they cling to (among other things) ...anti immigrant sentiment." These are towns where they have houses going for 50 thousand that would get 400 thousand if they were here.

This is the thing that frustrates me about the massive immigration. We've got people who are here legally and through no fault of thier own are underemployed or unemployed.The factories being gone is the fault of National trade policies. And we are saying to them though our current immigration policies that we absolutely don't care about them. And that by our continued indiference we want to make thier options very limited.

I think you are missing Obama's point. He is pointing out that working class whites are blaming illegal immigration for their problems when the real problem is that America's economic policies as a whole have failed America. We pass free trade agreements with no intention of enforcing them properly and with no plan to train Americans for the jobs that are available in the global economy. Instead, we spend money on B.S. wars and when people get mad, the political parties throw guns, race, immigration, gays, whatever they can at the public, to distract them from reality.

Obama is being criticized for trying to wake up Americans to the fact that that "Shining City on a Hill" is a $7-an-hour job with no benefits, no retirement and healthcare costs no one can afford.

>>These are towns where they have houses going for 50 thousand that would get 400 thousand if they were here.


I grew up in one of those blue-collar towns up there. And trust me, people were always pissed off and frustrated 20 years ago, before the current immigration issue. PA's economy has been on the decline since the 50's. First the coal mines closed, then the railroads went away, then the steel mills starting shutting down. There was also a large presence of textile manufacturers that got decimated by massive imports and NAFTA (how often do you buy a piece of clothing that was actually made here?). It's all I heard people complain about while I was growing up, nothing has changed in the past 20 years. It's a sorry situation.

I don't really see how illegal immigrants fit into the picture- the problems PA residents face have existed for generations.

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama was quoted as saying by the Huffington Post.

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


Wow....Religion is bad. Guns are bad. Obama may win California and New York, but he's going to have a $hitstorm awaiting him in places like Ohio, West Virginia, Oklahoma, and North Carolina - states he NEEDS to win.....

Well this just makes me a small town, bible thumpin', gun-totin' bust ass
Hillbilly from the midwest! I know we aint got no lernin' like that there
Mr. Obammie, but now that he's tawt me the errors of my ways, I wannabe just
like him frum the South Side of Chicago! Well Sheeeiit!

Google Hazleton PA, Stroudsberg, Allentown PA. Seen in news media. It's sad in these towns and small cities -- they don't have the tax bases like a Fairfax or Montco where there were years of quiet pandering in super fat budgets.

They've been feeling the pain, suddenly blighted neighborhoods, for years and severely.

New Orleans now has yet another problem after Katrina- supporting the families and [anchor] baby boom. So does this mean what % of more rebuilding of NOLA will be for illegals?


http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=36780&postdays=0&postorder=asc&topic_view=&start=105&sid=35c10baaaa67b9d448d5f4f4c2f35681

taxpayer-PA and NOLA Wrote:
>> Google Hazleton PA, Stroudsberg, Allentown PA.

I've lived in and/or worked in two of the cities mentioned above.

Trust me, those towns have had economic problems out the whazoo long before this whole immigration thing. LOOOONG before any of this. Decades.

There's a huge problem up there- but it didn't happen because of recent illegal immigration. In fact, it happened about 40-50 years ago. And it just never got any better.

This has been a very intelligent discussion of the issue...without anger...without vulgarity...thank you. I think all these points are what Obama was trying to say...albeit rather poorly.

Bleh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Wow....Religion is bad. Guns are bad. Obama may
> win California and New York, but he's going to
> have a $hitstorm awaiting him in places like Ohio,
> West Virginia, Oklahoma, and North Carolina -
> states he NEEDS to win.....


He's not saying that at all. He is saying people a clinging to those things as a substitute for a better life.

>> Bleh Wrote:
> > "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations"


I agree it's not a very wise comment to make, especially for someone running for office. But there is some real truth to it. Walk into any bar in small town PA and strike up a conversation with the locals, you'll see what he means. There are some not-so-well-off people in my family that fit his description perfectly. He's not wrong, but it's a dumb thing to say campaign trail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2008 09:03AM by TheMeeper.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Bleh Wrote:
> > > "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy
> to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant
> sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to
> explain their frustrations"
>
>
> I agree it's not a very wise comment to make,
> especially for someone running for office. But
> there is some real truth to it. Walk into any bar
> in small town PA and strike up a conversation with
> the locals, you'll see what he means. There are
> some not-so-well-off people in my family that fit
> his description perfectly. He's not wrong, but
> it's a dumb thing to say campaign trail.


It might be a dumb thing to say, but I would rather have a candidate say this than lie about Bosnian snipers or refuse to answer a question about whether or not they would vote for the same immigration reform bill that they sponsored.

It wasnt a dumb thing to say...it was how he said it. Also..connecting guns to any issue will raise the issue of democrats always wanting to take guns away from people.

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
>>would rather have a candidate say this than lie about Bosnian snipers


LOL +1

Excuse me... I was thinking I logged onto "Fairfax Underground". Apparently, I'm at the PA Underground...

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This has been a very intelligent discussion of the
> issue...without anger...without vulgarity...thank
> you. I think all these points are what Obama was
> trying to say...albeit rather poorly.

You're stupid.