A Later School Start Time
At noon Friday, join School Board Member Sandy Evans and Phyllis Payne, founders of SLEEP, to talk about sleep and rethinking school day structure
By Erica R. Hendry Email the author 6:00 am
http://herndon.patch.com/articles/patchchat-live-a-later-school-start-time

Teens need about nine hours of sleep per night for good health, focus, energy and academic performance — but on average, middle and high school students in Fairfax County are getting seven hours a sleep of night or less.

The results of the county's recent Youth Risk Survey indicate to founders and members of the advocacy group Start Later for Excellence in Education Proposal (SLEEP) that while they've made progress in teaching parents and students about the importance of the issue, a sleep deficit still exists for many students, they said.

"Different children have different needs, but all children need sleep," wrote Phyllis Payne, who started SLEEP along with Evans in 2004, in an email to school board members last month.

At noon Friday, join School Board Member Sandy Evans (Mason) and Payne to talk about the history of the local and national movement, and other strategies the school board is exploring to give students more flexibility over their school day.

Friday also falls toward the end of National Sleep Awareness Week, an annual public education and awareness campaign run by the National Sleep Foundation.

In the past 14 years, two Fairfax County Public Schools Task Forces found in 1998 and 2008 respectively, that moving the county's high school start times to later in the day would benefit students and the larger community, and recommended the school system find a way to do so.

Out of those task forces came a cost-neutral plan to push back start times, which the board considered in 2009. But the concerns from other parts of the community about schedule changes being too disruptive mad the board pause — it didn't move forward with a decision.

"In my view, dealing with unhealthy high school start times remains a priority for teen health, wellness and performance and must be addressed," Evans said.

She introduced an idea at a board work session last month that would allow teens to opt out of their first classes and begin school at the start of the second period, if they could make up the credit in other ways, via online courses or dual enrolment at a community college.

But "the larger issue affecting tens of thousands of teen students remains," Evans said.

Fairfax SLEEP joined other sleep movements across the country in signing a petition promoting legislation that would ban schools from starting before 8 a.m. The petition is looking for 7,500 signatures before it is sent to Congress and President Barack Obama; as of Wednesday night, it had 5,071.

Patch file photo. Sandy Evans (Mason) will be in a live discussion at noon Friday March 9 to talk about SLEEP and later start times in Fairfax County.Credit EricaR.Hendry
Attachments:

Get off Facebook and go to bed earlier. Not really rocket science

youre kidding right? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get off Facebook and go to bed earlier. Not really
> rocket science


C'Mon man. FCPS starts WAY earlier than it should. Dont be a blind Homer and peek at ALL of the evidence to the point.

Start times are fine; same as always. The problem is that the kids stay up too late. Bedtime for high school should be 9:30 or 10:00 PM. Take away their interwebs and phones and TVs and games and crap. Homework is from the time you get home until bed time. Half hour for play. That's how we did it back in my day. In FCPS.

UpHillinTheSnowBothWays Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Start times are fine; same as always. The
> problem is that the kids stay up too late.
> Bedtime for high school should be 9:30 or 10:00
> PM. Take away their interwebs and phones and TVs
> and games and crap. Homework is from the time you
> get home until bed time. Half hour for play.
> That's how we did it back in my day. In FCPS.


If you go to sleep at 10 the most sleep you could get is 8 hours, considering some kids bus comes at or before 6 even if you went to bed at 10 your looking at 6 hours of sleep max.

Plus if you play sports sometimes you arent getting home till 9 if you have a game and if you have homework to finish forget about a good nights sleep. 7:20 start time is a bit early.

Some kids to stay up to late and wouldnt get enough sleep either way, but a lot of kids could use the extra hour that play sports or have an early bus.

UpHillinTheSnowBothWays Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Start times are fine; same as always. The
> problem is that the kids stay up too late.
> Bedtime for high school should be 9:30 or 10:00
> PM. Take away their interwebs and phones and TVs
> and games and crap. Homework is from the time you
> get home until bed time. Half hour for play.
> That's how we did it back in my day. In FCPS.


God you are dense. Thats like saying you didnt wear seatbelts back in the day so there is no need to wear them now.

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/school-start-time-and-sleep
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080609071202.htm
http://www.miller-mccune.com/health/no-more-dozing-off-in-first-period-19579/
http://www.livescience.com/6684-delaying-school-start-times-benefits-teens.html
http://www.cehd.umn.edu/research/highlights/Sleep/
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20100706/teens-more-alert-when-school-starts-later

I could go on and on and on.. People used to burn Jews in ovens and fight to the death for sport. Whats your point you fucking dinosaur?

Sweet! Another thread on start times in FCPS! 17 threads certanly isn't enough on this topic.

Changing times really means poor parenting. I know some moms that let their kids stay up until 3am. Terrible! Why should we the tax payers bend over for under achievers?

"Fairfax SLEEP joined other sleep movements across the country in signing a petition promoting legislation that would ban schools from starting before 8 a.m. The petition is looking for 7,500 signatures before it is sent to Congress and President Barack Obama; as of Wednesday night, it had 5,071."

So you can't get what you want at the local or state level, so you want to force it on everyone through a Federal law????

This should be good for another 6-7 positions at the Dept of Education to study, implement and enforce the new law.

Soccer Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Changing times really means poor parenting. I know
> some moms that let their kids stay up until 3am.
> Terrible! Why should we the tax payers bend over
> for under achievers?


So it is your position that...

1)hundreds of thousands of scholars, scientists and reporters are wrong
2)We should shortchange millions of children on their education because you assert, with out any fact whatsoever, that the later start time would increase your tax liability to the state.

Interesting.

Another attempt by the left wing to solve their problems. Keep your kid off of FB, etc until the homework is done. Take the phone from your kid when you go to bed. How about driving your kid to school so they can get an extra 30 minutes of sleep.

lost again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another attempt by the left wing to solve their
> problems. Keep your kid off of FB, etc until the
> homework is done. Take the phone from your kid
> when you go to bed. How about driving your kid to
> school so they can get an extra 30 minutes of
> sleep.


Thats so funny, right? Because school is so obtrusive already. Homework makes me laugh. What are they doing while they are there? Having schoolwork responsibilities from 6:00 AM to 8:00 PM is ludacris. I guarantee you dont put in those kind of hours. How about we start school a bit later thus making adolescents more productive overall and let them be done for extra-curricular or part-time work in the evenings. If studying is your kids cup of tea, then great! Enroll them in evening study programs.

Do me a favor and drive to CVS, buy some shears and remove the wool from in front of your eyes. You are an institutionalized drone and your children will be more subservient that you!

I would also like to point out that a 7:20 start time for high school is expecting kids to be productive and attentive BEFORE their parents even start work for the day. A good number of kids are up and out of the house before their parents have to wake up for work.

First period is basically a waste that early in the morning with the kids all half asleep. An hour later wouldnt be a big deal and would be beneficial for the kids.

"I would also like to point out that a 7:20 start time for high school is expecting kids to be productive and attentive BEFORE their parents even start work for the day. "

Thank you for proving my point concerning the lack of parental involvement in their kids' lives and the expectation FCPS should do that job.

Sports programs would suffer by the later start. Practice times, lack of sunlight, and youth leagues would create huge issues. Not to mention the later start times for games.

lost again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I would also like to point out that a 7:20 start
> time for high school is expecting kids to be
> productive and attentive BEFORE their parents even
> start work for the day. "
>
> Thank you for proving my point concerning the lack
> of parental involvement in their kids' lives and
> the expectation FCPS should do that job.

I didnt prove anything. FCPS shouldnt be raising kids for parents and parents do try and pass the blame off to much. That said its absolutely absurd to expect kids to be learning 2 hours before a normal work day starts. I have no idea how you are possibly trying to make any connection to what you are talking about when the issue is just weather school should start at 8 or 8:30 instead of 7:30.

When I ask my seniors if they would like to start an hour later, they say "Yes!"
When I say they would then have to stay until 3:10, they say "No Way!"
Nuff said!

I guess I proved you had English 1st or 2nd period.

didn't not didnt

shouldn't not shouldnt

it's not its

and

whether not weather

lost again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I proved you had English 1st or 2nd
> period.
>
> didn't not didnt
>
> shouldn't not shouldnt
>
> it's not its
>
> and
>
> whether not weather

All you proved was that you had no argument since you chose to respond by nit picking a lack of apostrophies. Condragulations keyboard warrior.

Since your so against this I take it your kids will be home schooled and to prove a point they will start at 6 am. After all if they arent ready to learn yet its bad parenting, and we wouldnt want the school raising your kids by sending them there to learn.

thats sorta true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you go to sleep at 10 the most sleep you could
> get is 8 hours, considering some kids bus comes at
> or before 6 even if you went to bed at 10 your
> looking at 6 hours of sleep max.
>

Let's back up there, chief. What buses come before 6 AM ?

Furthermore, even if your bus did come around 6 AM, why would you need to get up at 4 AM for it? (you claim 10 PM bed time = 6 hours sleep max) Does it take you 2 hours to shower, get dressed, and eat a bowl of cereal?

snowdenscold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thats sorta true Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > If you go to sleep at 10 the most sleep you
> could
> > get is 8 hours, considering some kids bus comes
> at
> > or before 6 even if you went to bed at 10 your
> > looking at 6 hours of sleep max.
> >
>
> Let's back up there, chief. What buses come before
> 6 AM ?
>
> Furthermore, even if your bus did come around 6
> AM, why would you need to get up at 4 AM for it?
> (you claim 10 PM bed time = 6 hours sleep max)
> Does it take you 2 hours to shower, get dressed,
> and eat a bowl of cereal?

Buses do come before 6 depending on where you live in school districts. Also remember a bus isnt going to just roll up last second they will have to be at the school by 7 to make sure they can get to the front to unload and the kids will all be at class on time.

And yes some girls do take 2 hours to get ready for school every morning. If your a guy you can sleep a little longer but you still arent sniffing 8 hours of sleep.

Thered be no harm in starting at 8 and getting out at 2:45

IMAGINE if these SLEEP ladies had something else to do with their time. They might even do something worthwhile, like repeal the Kings Dominion law. Their energy is focused on the wrong issue.

thats sorta true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And yes some girls do take 2 hours to get ready

Cultural change for the worse. Takes two hours to tramp up and be fashionable. Should take no more than 10 minutes to dress, 10-20 minutes to shower and everything. That's 20-30 minutes, not 2 hours. Add a half hour for a leisurely breakfast. One hour from wakey-wakey to out the door.

JBASS+1

Exactly, well put. God I hate listening to these morons talk about "their day", what are they200 years old, and they romanticize their childhoods, don't get me started.

thats sorta true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lost again Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "I would also like to point out that a 7:20
> start
> > time for high school is expecting kids to be
> > productive and attentive BEFORE their parents
> even
> > start work for the day. "
> >
> > Thank you for proving my point concerning the
> lack
> > of parental involvement in their kids' lives
> and
> > the expectation FCPS should do that job.
>
> I didnt prove anything. FCPS shouldnt be raising
> kids for parents and parents do try and pass the
> blame off to much. That said its absolutely
> absurd to expect kids to be learning 2 hours
> before a normal work day starts. I have no idea
> how you are possibly trying to make any connection
> to what you are talking about when the issue is
> just weather school should start at 8 or 8:30
> instead of 7:30.

The 'normal' workday starts at 9:30AM? NFW - What planet do you come from?

I understand the desire for school to start later.

However, in our family the work day starts much,much earlier than 9:30. The father leaves for work before 6 a.m. and gets home after 5--many times, much after.

My kids would have both appreciated later start times--but do you know what? They managed. Anything later than 8 a.m. though would really mess things up with after school activities which were very important to them. It also puts the school buses out there in the worst of rush hour. In fact, when my son started driving, he wanted to be at school early to see his friends. He managed.

I don't know what the plans are for elementary, but I do know that we absolutely cannot have very small children out at dark. My kids walked to elementary school and if they started too early, they would have been walking in the dark. This would not be acceptable. Neither would young children getting on buses at 6:30.

I understand the "science" but I think some of it is overstated. Think about it--in the "olden" days, the kids were up on the farm milking the cows. They went to bed at dark because lighting was expensive. A lot of this "science" is culture and habits.

My preference: everyone goes from 8-3. Reality:ecause of bus transportation, it is not going to happen.

Are we really going to waste our time on this again? Let the kids who want to sleep through first period take an online course to make up for it. This solves the problem for the folks that want to bitch about this. Let the rest of the kids go to school as it is. If we lived in Mayberry RFD land than we could start school at 8:30 – 9:00 am. We don’t. Starting high school that late here won’t work. Quit whining and move on.

SLEEP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Later School Start Time
> At noon Friday, join School Board Member Sandy
> Evans and Phyllis Payne, founders of SLEEP, to
> talk about sleep and rethinking school day
> structure
> By Erica R. Hendry Email the author 6:00 am
> http://herndon.patch.com/articles/patchchat-live-a
> -later-school-start-time
>
> Teens need about nine hours of sleep per night for
> good health, focus, energy and academic
> performance — but on average, middle and high
> school students in Fairfax County are getting
> seven hours a sleep of night or less.
>
> The results of the county's recent Youth Risk
> Survey indicate to founders and members of the
> advocacy group Start Later for Excellence in
> Education Proposal (SLEEP) that while they've made
> progress in teaching parents and students about
> the importance of the issue, a sleep deficit still
> exists for many students, they said.
>
> "Different children have different needs, but all
> children need sleep," wrote Phyllis Payne, who
> started SLEEP along with Evans in 2004, in an
> email to school board members last month.
>
> At noon Friday, join School Board Member Sandy
> Evans (Mason) and Payne to talk about the history
> of the local and national movement, and other
> strategies the school board is exploring to give
> students more flexibility over their school day.
>
> Friday also falls toward the end of National Sleep
> Awareness Week, an annual public education and
> awareness campaign run by the National Sleep
> Foundation.
>
> In the past 14 years, two Fairfax County Public
> Schools Task Forces found in 1998 and 2008
> respectively, that moving the county's high school
> start times to later in the day would benefit
> students and the larger community, and recommended
> the school system find a way to do so.
>
> Out of those task forces came a cost-neutral plan
> to push back start times, which the board
> considered in 2009. But the concerns from other
> parts of the community about schedule changes
> being too disruptive mad the board pause — it
> didn't move forward with a decision.
>
> "In my view, dealing with unhealthy high school
> start times remains a priority for teen health,
> wellness and performance and must be addressed,"
> Evans said.
>
> She introduced an idea at a board work session
> last month that would allow teens to opt out of
> their first classes and begin school at the start
> of the second period, if they could make up the
> credit in other ways, via online courses or dual
> enrolment at a community college.
>
> But "the larger issue affecting tens of thousands
> of teen students remains," Evans said.
>
> Fairfax SLEEP joined other sleep movements across
> the country in signing a petition promoting
> legislation that would ban schools from starting
> before 8 a.m. The petition is looking for 7,500
> signatures before it is sent to Congress and
> President Barack Obama; as of Wednesday night, it
> had 5,071.
>
> Patch file photo. Sandy Evans (Mason) will be in a
> live discussion at noon Friday March 9 to talk
> about SLEEP and later start times in Fairfax
> County.Credit EricaR.Hendry

tl;dr. The first sentence looked like it was written by a 7th grader

VORT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I ask my seniors if they would like to start
> an hour later, they say "Yes!"
> When I say they would then have to stay until
> 3:10, they say "No Way!"
> Nuff said!


Yes its part of the pussification of America, I dont have any idea how I made it to be a productive adult without these studies that show everything we have done for years is now wrong.

LOL @ seven hours of sleep. I wish. When I was in middle school/high school I averaged about five hours of sleep a night if I was lucky. I do agree with the times, though. The best schedule I ever saw was where my father attended school in NNJ. Their schedule is still the same fifty years later, and they don't start until around 9AM, yet they don't stay past three'ish in the afternoon (I can't remember the exact times). I think their Mondays all have different times when compared to the rest of the week, and best of all they have enough lunch time to walk down the street to grab some food. I guess being an older, well established town with their own school district, however, they can afford such things.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

IIRC the last time we went through this shit FCPS came up with a bell schedule that would result in middle school kids getting out at 4:00. Allowing bus travel time that means many kids would be getting home after dark during the winter. In addition we are talking about an arrangement where middle and high school kids in two working parent households will likely be leaving for school in the morning after both parents have left for work. My guess is that we will start seeing more truancy problems. I also seem to recall that it was going to have some elementary school kids having to leave for school earlier.

Changing high school start times isn't something that happens in a vacuum. You shift high school start times and you will then have to re-arrange the start times of middle and elementary school kids as well. Fairfax isn't going to invest in additional busses and drivers just so high school kids can go to school later.

Ultimately I think VORT nailed it. While many high school kids would love to start school earlier, I suspect there aren't that many who would be willing to stay much later to make it up.

Bill.N nailed it. Most of the SLEEP efforts are totally myopic and misdirected. To move back FCPS high school start times you have to make elementary and middle school start times even earlier. Common sense is that kindergarten thru sixth grade children need 10-11 hours of sleep per night. They need much more sleep than high schoolers.

SLEEP will never succeed -- until it looks at all grade levels and submits solid and reasoned proposals that ensure MORE hours of sleep for the younger students than for high schoolers.

We had a 3 hour delayed opening at my high school the other day. I still had to wake up a couple of them when we got to the school. Open an hour later and they'll just stay up an hour later.

Personally, I think it's the soccer moms that want to sleep later. But they can't say that, so they trot out their pseudo-scientific bullshit instead.

VORT also comments: Why with a budget fight approaching, a new superintendent to recruit and hire does this board feel they have the time and resources to revisit SLEEP? The previous study was extensive and the proposal voted down.Just because six of the current board members were not on the board at the time is no reason to resurrect the issue.SLEEP should be put to SLEEP permanently.

Its because the name of the game in education administration is to re invent the wheel every year.

they have justify their positions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its because the name of the game in education
> administration is to re invent the wheel every
> year.


While I agree with the sentiment, in this case this isn't the administration. Blame some School Board members and these single focus interest groups.

"let it die" and "they have to justify their positions" have nailed it. Wonder how Congress would operate if members felt the need to revisit all the legislation of the previous session? Oh wait, congress is dysfunctional as well. It is my fervent hope that at least a majority of the "new" board will finally get it: that they were elected do support education for our children and not to get face time on TV to either reward their single-issue backers, or to try out for the next prime time reality show! Oh wait: the school board meetings are a Reality Show.

All of you fuckers who claim we should go to bed earlier should fuck yourselves with a Hercules hook. IB, AP, honors classes give out a shit load of hw. You have no idea what we live through. Not to mention tests and haven't you read our biological clocks are all messed up and we want to sleep later. Y'all are dumbasses and I'm fucking glad I'm moving back to Florida where education is as easy as putting kecthup on a hot dog. FUCK YOU JACK DALE and all you supporters

we dont live in BC times dick head. We aren't cavemen

Also, if FCPS is really one of the richest (and crappiest) counties in the country, they should be able to afford to change times.

In most cases the majority of SLEEP advocates want the rest of the county's youth and families to change their schedule for them. They are imposing their beliefs on the majority of county parents. Some could say a similar scenario is OBAMACARE. What is perceived to be best for a few is best for all.

Phyllis Payne, Sandy Evans and others have or had kids who could not handle their school's start times. In these instances neither Evans nor Payne understood implications of after school activities such as sports and parents who relied on schedules for getting to family activities, jobs,etc. They had no idea that there was another world outside of their own kids.

Reports were done by SLEEP (Evans and Payne) which kept trying to spin bussing times, routes and openings of middles and elementary schools. (Remember, Evans was once a reporter for the Wash. Post) The county worked with these 2 ladies and spent thousands of dollars on the issue. Then the county went out to the public and the public said NO to the SLEEP initiative. This was not good enough and Evans and Payne cried foul. The issues continues, Evans is on the School Board, her only reason for running is to get earlier start times and apparently legalize the use of illegal drugs on school properties.

Payne and School Board member "what more do you need Patty Reed" are publicists for Evans as evidenced by this blog.

This is a zero-sum game, folks. Only 24 hours in a day; starting school later won't change that. Start later, finish later - nothing changes.

Sounds like a bunch of lazy entitled rich kids want to stay up late. Nothing more.

I started my day in HS at 7 in a different state. I graduated with honors and 6 AP courses under my belt. I had practice in the spring, extracurriculars, and worked about 20 hours a week after I turned 16 and got my license. I probably averaged about 6.5 hours of sleep a night. Don't like it? Go to bed early and deal with it. The world doesn't revolve around you.

FCPS Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N nailed it. Most of the SLEEP efforts are
> totally myopic and misdirected. To move back FCPS
> high school start times you have to make
> elementary and middle school start times even
> earlier. Common sense is that kindergarten thru
> sixth grade children need 10-11 hours of sleep per
> night. They need much more sleep than high
> schoolers.
>
> SLEEP will never succeed -- until it looks at all
> grade levels and submits solid and reasoned
> proposals that ensure MORE hours of sleep for the
> younger students than for high schoolers.


I don't care whether they change the times or not, but you clearly haven't read the research associated with the SLEEP advocates. The younger kids need the same amount of sleep as teenagers (10-11 hrs) the difference is that the studies have shown that teenagers sleep cycles start later than younger kids and adults. Their body clocks are skewed evidently. In short, it's much harder for a pubescent teen to go to sleep at 8 or 9 pm than it is for a elementary student. Thus, the effort to switch elementary and high school start times.

If it were cheaper to switch the times, than I'd be for it, but as long as the studies show it's more expensive etc I say we stay with the way things are. Hundreds of thousands of kids have survived going to school on this schedule, now is not the time to spend more money on something these kids can learn to deal with. Life is full of challenges, get used to it.

When my children were babies I had to train them to sleep at night. Frankly, it was not natural for them and it took some effort. But, guess what? It worked. In the summer, I allowed my teens to do what they wanted--they stayed up late and slept in-unless they were working-BUT a few weeks before school started I made them up earlier and earlier (not as early as school).

I know and am familiar with the studies--but, as with any science, it is hard to do a true controlled experiment with real people.

If I have been out with friends at night, I have a harder time going to sleep than if I have been in the house putzing around or watching TV. If your kids are constantly on the computer and chatting late, it is going to be harder to go to sleep. This is hard with homework--but possible.

I would be happy to see teens go to school later-but not at the expense of the young children. Little kids don't need to be going to school in the dark. Also, rush hour doesn't affect elementary schools as much as high schools as the kids generally don't have to ride as far. If the high schools started later, it would probably take longer to get there.

I have to confess, that I am a morning person--and, I'm willing to bet that Sandy and Phyllis are night people. This may affect their point of view--and, I'll admit, mine.

sleeping at 10PM and waking at 6AM is 8 hours of sleep, just in case u cudnt count. and, the go to school from what, 7:20 to 2 or 3 whatever? 7 or 8 hours? they dont get enough sleep, then nap in 7 hours u have between 3 and 10. i graduated from High School, got a BS and and MS in Civil Engineering (Transportation) and never had to do more then a couple of hours of homework every night. stop whining and suck it up.

Suck it up you bunch of little pussies! Just wait until you get out into the real world and need to do shift work or work in IT on an oncall rotation. The internet doesn't have a closed sign on a door.

Billy Mays Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of you fuckers who claim we should go to bed
> earlier should fuck yourselves with a Hercules
> hook. IB, AP, honors classes give out a shit load
> of hw. You have no idea what we live through. Not
> to mention tests and haven't you read our
> biological clocks are all messed up and we want to
> sleep later. Y'all are dumbasses and I'm fucking
> glad I'm moving back to Florida where education is
> as easy as putting kecthup on a hot dog. FUCK YOU
> JACK DALE and all you supporters

You'll get a much better education in FL moron. The 2nd worst system in the nation!

someonewhocancounttime but can't write





someonewhocancounttime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sleeping at 10PM and waking at 6AM is 8 hours of
> sleep, just in case u cudnt count. and, the go to
> school from what, 7:20 to 2 or 3 whatever? 7 or 8
> hours? they dont get enough sleep, then nap in 7
> hours u have between 3 and 10. i graduated from
> High School, got a BS and and MS in Civil
> Engineering (Transportation) and never had to do
> more then a couple of hours of homework every
> night. stop whining and suck it up.

Hey dumbass: but what if I want my kids to do something meaningful with their lives (not engineering) but something that actually helps other human beings? You suck.

DONT INSULT FLORIDA.YOU'RE JUST JEOLUS I'M MOVING THERE YOU AREN'T. FUCKER

who the fuck says pussies any more? you must be really gay...no wait, you ARE really gay!

yeah no one really gives a fuck about your poverty filled childhood.

yeah so we get more sleep. (moron)

Shut off the internet and take away their cellphones at night and problem solved. Most middle and highschoolers are just getting warmed up at midnight with facebook, twitter and texting nonsense to each other.

SunnyD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shut off the internet and take away their
> cellphones at night and problem solved. Most
> middle and highschoolers are just getting warmed
> up at midnight with facebook, twitter and texting
> nonsense to each other.


And how do you know this? Do you make a point to follow highschoolers on Twitter? Do you friend request the lil nubiles? Stop making stuff up.

You also have to account for the obscene amounts of homework AP and IB courses give.

JBass I can tell you are a total douche bag. Enjoy your day!!!!

This is getting old. The public overwhelmingly rejected this idea more than once. Too many negatives to outweigh the benefits. The school board voted as the public wanted. If the new board votes the other way it just means they will ignore what the public wants. Why do we have to waste all this time and energy again? Let's move on.

yo dick face, thats not the problem. we have insane amounts of work at night. dont blame shit on fb or cellphones. you probably never had an IB or even a fucking honors class before

SunnyD Wrote:
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> JBass I can tell you are a total douche bag.
> Enjoy your day!!!!


Im a douche for believing verifiable scientific studies? So say they are using electronic communication when they should be sleeping. I would simply like to know if you can support your statement.

No honors or IB classes, but I do remember learning capitilization skills in the 2nd and 3rd grade. I stayed up all night thinking about that shit and I eventually got it.

Hey BM-First question: Why is it that so many kids in honors or IB somehow manage to be involved in sports, drama or other extra-curriculars, manage to get their homework done, manage to get good grades, yet still manage to get to bed at a decent hour?

Second question: If you are so busy that you can't get all of your homework done between the time you get home and a normal bedtime, how are you going to be able to get more done and get to bed at the same time if you are going to be getting home from school later?

Third question (and follow ups): Are classes the only thing in your school life? How will getting home later in the day affect your ability to do those other activities? If they will be shifted to before rather than after school, won't you simply be getting up at the same or earlier time than you currently are?

Fourth question (and follow up): If they make the starting time for high school kids later, how will that affect the starting and ending times for elementary and middle school kids? If those kids are shifted to an earlier start time, won't that affect the amount of sleep those kids get?

Fifth question: Is it easier for a high school kid to skip school if his parents leave for work before the kid, or is it easier if the parents leave after the kid?

Sixth question: If you can't handle your current school work load and still get to sleep at a decent hour, have you considered that you might be taking too many IB and honors classes?

Food for thought, Bill.

Educating is not like taking out the trash. Its not black and white. Done or not.

You are saying we should overlook the quality of the education because it may alter other life patterns? We should still send them to school early even though we know it is not as successful than later?

Oh, and if the students are more productive at school, wouldnt there be less need for at home work, meaning they are doing more in less time, leaving the evenings open?

Legit questions JB. I don't have time for a complete response so here's a short one.

We shouldn't overlook quality of education because it might alter other life patterns. OTOH kid's education doesn't begin and end at the schoolhouse door, and kids can be learning a great deal outside of school. Also there are things other than education that are important and need to be taken into consideration. It is a balancing act.

I haven't looked at the research since the last proposal, but at that time it appeared that much of it assumed everything would remain about the same except that kids would be getting more sleep. I do not believe we can make that assumption. In addition having seen how FCPS used bus schedules as the primary determinant in their last proposal I'm not sure you aren't going to end up with some kids going to school earlier under a new bell schedule.

Increased productivity resulting in less work at home only happens if the work kids are doing at home is work they could do in school. I don't know your experince. Mine (from school many years ago and having gotten a couple through and one not yet to HS) is that much of the high school home work isn't likely to be shifted back into the classroom. Whether the level of homework is a good thing is another debate though.

How many times do we have to go through this? Students, parents, and taxpayers say leave this alone. Don’t mess with the schedule for elementary schools and don’t make our community & school sports start so late. Why won't the school board listen? I guess we will have to have a bunch of meetings and get a bunch of groups together to say why this is not a good idea for our community – again. Do we have to organize before/after every election? Here we go again.

1. Until FCPS comes up with a "straw man" which shows what the options are, it is all "are you for or against a later start for high school students?" Of course a later start would be nice and popular--but until there is something with which to compare it, it is all smoke and mirrors.

2. Last time, FCPS had middle school kids going to school long after most parents have gone to work. This presented a scary thought to a lot of people-including me. Talk about a truancy problem!

3. It is my understanding that a lot of elementary schools are now starting quite late. This has caused a lot of child care difficulties in the a.m. And a lot of buses run late, I am told.

Adjustment takes time. I understand the "science" and the studies that have been presented, but I also know that controlled studies with real people are hard to do and that there are MANY variables that are not controllable.

Fact: There are many high school students that work and do child care after school.
Fact: There are many extracurricular activities that would be affected by changing the start time.
Fact: Rush hour will present additional problems with a later start time.
Fact: Like it or not, athletics are a factor in the decision-and a later start time makes it more difficult to schedule fields in daylight hours. This trickles down to youth sports, as well.

FACT: Each day has 24 hours. We deal with daylight savings time. There are ways to get your kids to bed sooner and up on time. Later starts don't add hours and may add time on the road.

JBass Wrote:
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> SunnyD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JBass I can tell you are a total douche bag.
> > Enjoy your day!!!!
>
>
> Im a douche for believing verifiable scientific
> studies? So say they are using electronic
> communication when they should be sleeping. I
> would simply like to know if you can support your
> statement.

Obviously you don't have children. If you did, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

My verifiable scientific study still says you are a douche bag.

SunnyD Wrote:
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> JBass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SunnyD Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > JBass I can tell you are a total douche bag.
> > > Enjoy your day!!!!
> >
> >
> > Im a douche for believing verifiable scientific
> > studies? So say they are using electronic
> > communication when they should be sleeping. I
> > would simply like to know if you can support
> your
> > statement.
>
> Obviously you don't have children. If you did,
> then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
>
> My verifiable scientific study still says you are
> a douche bag.


Oh, I get it now. You are saying YOUR child stays up late using electronic communication.

Ive got the blind leading the blind over here!

JBass Wrote:
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> SunnyD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JBass Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SunnyD Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > JBass I can tell you are a total douche bag.
>
> > > > Enjoy your day!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Im a douche for believing verifiable
> scientific
> > > studies? So say they are using electronic
> > > communication when they should be sleeping.
> I
> > > would simply like to know if you can support
> > your
> > > statement.
> >
> > Obviously you don't have children. If you did,
> > then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
> >
> > My verifiable scientific study still says you
> are
> > a douche bag.
>
>
> Oh, I get it now. You are saying YOUR child stays
> up late using electronic communication.
>
> Ive got the blind leading the blind over here

Your intelligence makes my head hurt.

SunnyD Wrote:
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> JBass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SunnyD Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > JBass Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > SunnyD Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > JBass I can tell you are a total douche
> bag.
> >
> > > > > Enjoy your day!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Im a douche for believing verifiable
> > scientific
> > > > studies? So say they are using electronic
> > > > communication when they should be sleeping.
>
> > I
> > > > would simply like to know if you can
> support
> > > your
> > > > statement.
> > >
> > > Obviously you don't have children. If you
> did,
> > > then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
> > >
> > > My verifiable scientific study still says you
> > are
> > > a douche bag.
> >
> >
> > Oh, I get it now. You are saying YOUR child
> stays
> > up late using electronic communication.
> >
> > Ive got the blind leading the blind over here
>
> Your intelligence makes my head hurt.

A gnats intelligence makes your head hurt, whats your point? Backpedaling suits you well.

y'all are GREAT!
Attachments:

You are correct. I was backpedaling. Let me go back to my original statement about you DOUCHE BAG.

SunnyD Wrote:
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> You are correct. I was backpedaling. Let me go
> back to my original statement about you DOUCHE
> BAG.


Does that make you feel better? Does it help ease the pain of your lil princess sending choch-shots to her boyfriend at all hours of the night?

I dont really care that you think Im a douche, you see. I am sure you are a complete tool IRL, I dont want you to have fond opinions of me. i want you to realize that making kids start school earlier than anybody you know who isnt in construction is a waste of capital resources and young talent.

Dont worry, your lil Suzy will graduate with mediocre grades, whore her way through JMU and be waiting tables with her social science degree in no time.

Does what make me feel better? Calling you a douche bag? Well yeah......kind of. You say you don't care, but obviously you do. You keep responding to me calling you what you are.

Have a wonderful evening. Sweet tender love headed your way.

Let it die Wrote:
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> Are we really going to waste our time on this
> again? Let the kids who want to sleep through
> first period take an online course to make up for
> it. This solves the problem for the folks that
> want to bitch about this. Let the rest of the kids
> go to school as it is. If we lived in Mayberry RFD
> land than we could start school at 8:30 – 9:00
> am. We don’t. Starting high school that late
> here won’t work. Quit whining and move on.

Very true. Starting any later in Fairfax County would complicate after school activities quite a bit.

What the hell does that account for? Honestly you're questions made no sense and by the way, all of you parents or whatever who supports the early times are fucked because Dale has decided to start high schools next year after 8 so FUCK YOU DICKS! WE WON! SHUT UP AND SUCK A DICK!

Why don't we poll the HS kids and see what time they would prefer? I think eight AM would win.

I dunno when school starts in Fairfax, but I do know that I've looked out my bedroom window more than once around 6am and saw a school bus. That's pretty insane.

When I went to school, school started at 8:30 and let out at 3:30. I had to catch the bus at 7:20am, but I was also the first stop on a long bus route (if I took the bus,I'd get home at 4:20, if I drove, 3:50-4pm).

To everyone bitching and moaning about "oh, the elementary/middle school kids will have to be up earlier, waaaah." fuck the little asshats. Make 'em walk to school at 6 AM. They'll learn responsibility.

Also, I'm in ALL AP classes, have received nothing lower than a 3.9 in high school, passed the SAT with a 2350, and I'm STILL in bed by 10. (on weekdays, anyway.)To all of my fellow teens that are complaining, get the fuck off of Facebook and go to bed. Get over it, school isn't starting earlier. Quit your bitching.

When do the kids of the SLEEP nazi moms graduate so this will finally end?

no Wrote:
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> To everyone bitching and moaning about "oh, the
> elementary/middle school kids will have to be up
> earlier, waaaah." fuck the little asshats. Make
> 'em walk to school at 6 AM. They'll learn
> responsibility.
>
> Also, I'm in ALL AP classes, have received nothing
> lower than a 3.9 in high school, passed the SAT
> with a 2350, and I'm STILL in bed by 10. (on
> weekdays, anyway.)To all of my fellow teens that
> are complaining, get the fuck off of Facebook and
> go to bed. Get over it, school isn't starting
> earlier. Quit your bitching.


Everyone needs something to bitch about. I bitched like hell in my senior year because I had to report to fort campbell 2 months after graduation. I survived the trip to Nam but a couple of my classmates did not. Now thats something to bitch about!

OMFG! Wrote:
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> When do the kids of the SLEEP nazi moms graduate
> so this will finally end?

Thats the beauty it never ends. With every year comes a new crusade. Next year it could be nutrition, the next year driving and texting. The march of the nanny state government goes on and on.
Attachments:

There are a fixed number of school buses, and their multi-route runs for elementary, middle, and high schools can only be optimized so much. SLEEP may be well meaning but they do not represent most parents and families with K-8 children. If you just want to move all high school bus routes to later in the day, it just cannot be done with out moving all K-8 bus routes even earlier in the morning.

That won't work. Anyone with common sense knows that kindergarten thru sixth grade children need 10-11 hours of sleep per night. They need a lot more sleep than high school teens do.

Changes in the start and end times of schools will only succeed if the new proposals provide several MORE hours of sleep for younger students than for high schoolers. Otherwise all proposals will fail, and the School Board will again vote thumbs down on the SLEEP initiative -- as they should.

Are you serious? You mean it is my job to see my precious kids get enough sleep at night? I thought that is what the government was for.

I am too busy watching dances with the stars and american idol, give me a break.

Although the SLEEP committee has never asked students directly, the question has been raised and answered in student media. The committee and the school board should read online editorials from HS newspapers on the topic. Bottom line is this: sure the kids would rather sleep later, but they sure as heck do not want to stay later. Also, with the advent of weekly late openings at certain schools for CLT meetings, students are savvy enough to figure out that an hour later on the clock, translates to a mere 20 minutes more shuteye due to the much heavier traffic. Students should be responsible enough to get their needed sleep. Don't put it on the government or on the parents. Some will have no trouble getting up for work when they graduate - especially if wakened at 05:30 by a drill sergeant. Many do take naps before doing homework after sports practice. The school board should concentrate on the budget - and as we still have funding issues, should not spend one dime on another SLEEP study.