R.I.P. My Friend.

Oh, ok...well, since you were so polite about it...I'll get right on that, mang...

moral of the story is, don't hangout with losers like the OP and steal from IHOP; especially while armed security is there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 04:58PM by jigga.

.
Attachments:

I was there actually, and he got shot.

I have everything you said I wouldn't, HA!
#stillwinning

TJ HOOKER jumped in front of their vehicle and started blasting over some fucking pancakes and received less than 30 days suspension from his cop job. If this had happened in any other country, there would be riots in the streets. So sad and ridiculous.

VinceRomano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ HOOKER jumped in front of their vehicle and
> started blasting over some fucking pancakes and
> received less than 30 days suspension from his cop
> job. If this had happened in any other country,
> there would be riots in the streets. So sad and
> ridiculous.
Attachments:

VinceRomano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ HOOKER jumped in front of their vehicle and
> started blasting over some fucking pancakes and
> received less than 30 days suspension from his cop
> job. If this had happened in any other country,
> there would be riots in the streets. So sad and
> ridiculous.


Yup, that's EXACTLY what happened. In fact, you SHOULD go riot. Go tell a Police Officer how outraged you are. How DARE a Cop try to stop a robbery and then defend himself! In FACT............ I think the Cop should have escorted Aaron to the safety of his vehicle and then gone back inside IHOP and paid for everyone's meal out of his own pocket. The NERVE!!!!!

At the time of the incident, he was a security guard at a pancake house. Dine and dash is not "robbery", it's not even a crime. It's a civil offense. The security guard was not defending himself. He intentionally put himself in harms way over pancakes. He was punished for putting himself in harms way, but not for killing someone over pancakes. Justice was not served. Do you want to live in a country where private security guards can murder citizens over some pancakes?

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How DARE a Cop try to stop a
> robbery and then defend himself!

There was one way to avoid this whole situation. It's called PAY YOUR BILL! These kids were CRIMINALS!

It's obvious that you have never seen a drop of blood in your life and I hope you never do, dirty troll.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was one way to avoid this whole situation.
> It's called PAY YOUR BILL! These kids were
> CRIMINALS!

VinceRomano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the time of the incident, he was a security
> guard at a pancake house. Dine and dash is not
> "robbery", it's not even a crime. It's a civil
> offense. The security guard was not defending
> himself. He intentionally put himself in harms way
> over pancakes. He was punished for putting himself
> in harms way, but not for killing someone over
> pancakes. Justice was not served. Do you want to
> live in a country where private security guards
> can murder citizens over some pancakes?
>
> Taylor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How DARE a Cop try to stop a
> > robbery and then defend himself!

Dine and dash would be considered petit larceny under Virginia law. It's the theft, not from the person, of property less than $200 in value with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of possession. It's a class 1 misdemeanor and thus a crime.

I'm sorry for the friends and family of this kid. However, he's dead because someone made the decision to dine and dash and then used a vehicle as a deadly weapon against a cop. Friends and family should be focusing their feelings on that individual, not on the cop who properly used his training in self defense.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 07:04PM by WashingTone-Locian.

VinceRomano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Do you want to
> live in a country where private security guards
> can murder citizens over some pancakes?

Well... YES!! Even more than that, I want to live in a country where people are honest enough to pay their bills rather than steal.

And he was not murdered, which implies premeditation. He was simply killed, but only as a result of being involved in the deadly (or potentially deadly) assault on another.

I'll bet that little son-of-a-bitch doesn't try that shit again!

We all know that dine and dash is naughty. Is it an offense punishable by death here in the United States? Of course not.

The security guard jumped in front of their car. He put himself in harms way. No one was trying to run him over. That's why he was disciplined, that's why there was a payout, that's why policy has changed. He overreacted. He was not hired to kill dine and dashers, he was hired as a deterrent. Barney fife should have never been given bullets. His ego took over and now someone is dead over some pancakes.

The victim-blaming around here is ridiculous. Would you actually shoot someone who stole your pancake? Of course you wouldn't.


WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry for the friends and family of this kid.
> However, he's dead because someone made the
> decision to dine and dash and then used a vehicle
> as a deadly weapon against a cop. Friends and
> family should be focusing their feelings on that
> individual, not on the cop who properly used his
> training in self defense.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry for the friends and family of this kid.
> However, he's dead because someone made the
> decision to dine and dash and then used a vehicle
> as a deadly weapon against a cop. Friends and
> family should be focusing their feelings on that
> individual, not on the cop who properly used his
> training in self defense.


Seeing how the cop fired into the SIDE of the vehicle, I don't see how that can be declared self-defense.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

VinceRomano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dine and dash is not even
> "robbery", it's not even a crime.

The fact that your inner code of morality, your sense of "right and wrong", even allows you to attempt to make this point is EXACTLY why Aaron and his friends made the incredibly poor decisions that they made as well.

"Robbery" is STEALING. "Stealing" is taking goods, services, or intellectual property without PAYING for it. It's taking something that DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU because you HAVEN'T PAID FOR IT.

The fact that you have the GAUL to say that "Stealing food from IHOP isn't robbery.", that stealing from IHOP, "isn't even a crime.", is the reason that all of the rest of us people are so tired of entitled little shits like you.

Do you honestly mean to tell me that in your opinion, since the theft was "ONLY" from a lowly, under-paid waiter working at a "working class" restaurant, that to you and your spoiled little friends, "it's not even a crime"?!?!

I bet you're the kind of guy that also believes that, "It's not REALLY rape, as long as it's done to a member of the 'lower class' or a prostitute."

Apparently you think that you and your friends are not bound by the same rules and laws that the rest of us commoners are. You know, rules like not taking something without paying for it. For the REST of us, that is STEALING and therefore a moral and legal crime.

Okay, now I know you are just yanking my chain because you just compared running out on some pancakes (a shitty thing to do) to RAPE.

We are not talking about whether or not dine and dash is wrong. It's about how wrong is it, and how it should be handled.

The security guard should have simply taken note of the license plate number instead of going into full PROTECT THE PANCAKES AT ALL COSTS mode.

I should know better than to get into these things with internet people.




Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VinceRomano Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dine and dash is not even
> > "robbery", it's not even a crime.


> I bet you're the kind of guy that also believes
> that, "It's not REALLY rape, as long as it's done
> to a member of the 'lower class' or a
> prostitute.
Attachments:

VinceRomano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's about how wrong is it, and how
> it should be handled.

It must be nice to live in a world of infinite shades of grey where you can arbitrarily decide what applies and what doesn't depending on your mood or sense of self importance.

For us in a black and white world, it was wrong. It was stealing. He was a thief. He was a criminal along with everyone else in that car. Maybe the consequences were severe but he put himself into that situation.

OK, one less criminal in the world. Now on to the next one as this little shit was taken out of the gene pool.

I'm a Realist Too! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> For us in a black and white world,

Imagine what would have happened if Aaron Brown was black.

Straight from the court report.

"Officer Stowe, fearing for his safety, moved out of the roadway “in a semi-circle type fashion [to a place] between the parked cars that [were] immediately to [the officer's] right-hand side.” With the vehicle coming toward him at a high rate of speed, Officer Stowe drew his sidearm, a semi-automatic Glock Model 23, opened fire, and continued to fire as the vehicle passed his position. One of the bullets struck Aaron Brown, a passenger in the vehicle, killing him."

Sounds to me like he was in a good position to get the license plate number.

lmao

'Robbery'? Really? I thought this shit was common knowledge...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery

I have no fucking clue what irks you to this extent, but to the OP, you are obviously very upset, so as a frequenter of FFU, I have little choice but to point at you and laugh. /ahem
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You are funny because you are upset, haha! you supply much mirth to those of my ilk, which are rampant on this board...thank you for sharing :D

I'm confused. Which one was the jigaboo?

I just think it's interesting nobody is placing any blame on the friend(s) who put this kid in this situation. If the friends didn't do the first two things - dine and dash, charge their vehicle at the cop - this kid wouldn't be dead now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just think it's interesting nobody is placing
> any blame on the friend(s) who put this kid in
> this situation. If the friends didn't do the first
> two things - dine and dash, charge their vehicle
> at the cop - this kid wouldn't be dead now.

+1!!! Actions have consequences. So do choices. I place the blame squarely at the feet of those who chose to leave without paying, whether they initiated the idea or went along with it. The driver is particularly culpable and shoud be the one to face homicide charges since it was his action that prompted the officer to fire when put in the situation he was in.

fuck all you goddamn trolls! Can't wait until tragedy hits you all because I will be there front and center laughing my fucking ass off

fuct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuck all you goddamn trolls! Can't wait until
> tragedy hits you all because I will be there front
> and center laughing my fucking ass off

Yeah, but we get to laugh at you now! No waiting!

HaHaHa! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuct Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > fuck all you goddamn trolls! Can't wait until
> > tragedy hits you all because I will be there
> front
> > and center laughing my fucking ass off
>
> Yeah, but we get to laugh at you now! No waiting!

Laugh at me? I don't see why dickwad I didn't know the kid. I just think it's fucked up the way people can be so inconsiderate and heartless when it comes to someone dying. In fact none of you except for the OP knew the kid so fuck all of you!

fuct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Laugh at me? I don't see why dickwad I didn't
> know the kid. I just think it's fucked up the way
> people can be so inconsiderate and heartless when
> it comes to someone dying. In fact none of you
> except for the OP knew the kid so fuck all of you!


"Inconsiderate and heartless"?

That's ironic because I feel that the kids were the ones who were "inconsiderate and heartless" when they stole from a hard working waitress and an IHOP and then tried to assault/kill a Police Officer.

Yeah the driver was so guilty of these things that they dropped all of the charges against him and punished the cop instead. Interesting indeed.


WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just think it's interesting nobody is placing
> any blame on the friend(s) who put this kid in
> this situation. If the friends didn't do the first
> two things - dine and dash, charge their vehicle
> at the cop - this kid wouldn't be dead now.

Here's what really happened: a police office took out some scum-sucking trash who was on a path of self-destruction and intent on taking others with him. Every time there's a new posting trying to defend the scum whose actions initiated all this, I smile and thank the police officer.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuct Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Laugh at me? I don't see why dickwad I didn't
> > know the kid. I just think it's fucked up the
> way
> > people can be so inconsiderate and heartless
> when
> > it comes to someone dying. In fact none of you
> > except for the OP knew the kid so fuck all of
> you!
>
>
> "Inconsiderate and heartless"?
>
> That's ironic because I feel that the kids were
> the ones who were "inconsiderate and heartless"
> when they stole from a hard working waitress and
> an IHOP and then tried to assault/kill a Police
> Officer.

hahah bullshit the amount of money they dipped out on wouldn't even be worth prosecuting first off. Second "assault/kill a Police Officer," you mean that lard ass who jumped in front of the jeep because he was trying to be Robocop? What a real hero he was. You people are no different than the Westboro scumbags who protest dead soldiers funerals, only you people cower behind your computer screens. Anyways I found a picture of the cop, he joined a new department but looks like he is keeping himself in great shape.
Attachments:

So this petty thief is still dead. Right?

fuct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HaHaHa! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > fuct Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > fuck all you goddamn trolls! Can't wait
> until
> > > tragedy hits you all because I will be there
> > front
> > > and center laughing my fucking ass off
> >
> > Yeah, but we get to laugh at you now! No
> waiting!
>
> Laugh at me? I don't see why dickwad I didn't
> know the kid. I just think it's fucked up the way
> people can be so inconsiderate and heartless when
> it comes to someone dying. In fact none of you
> except for the OP knew the kid so fuck all of you!


Your mother has your pancakes ready, now run upstairs and eat. You can look stupid again later.

your table is ready Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuct Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HaHaHa! Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > fuct Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > fuck all you goddamn trolls! Can't wait
> > until
> > > > tragedy hits you all because I will be
> there
> > > front
> > > > and center laughing my fucking ass off
> > >
> > > Yeah, but we get to laugh at you now! No
> > waiting!
> >
> > Laugh at me? I don't see why dickwad I didn't
> > know the kid. I just think it's fucked up the
> way
> > people can be so inconsiderate and heartless
> when
> > it comes to someone dying. In fact none of you
> > except for the OP knew the kid so fuck all of
> you!
>
>
> Your mother has your pancakes ready, now run
> upstairs and eat. You can look stupid again later.
Attachments:

Let's take a poll. If you run out on a tab and drive towards an armed police officer, what do you think might happen next? Something good or perhaps something bad?

The problem with libs/criminals is they seem to be unable to anticipate or take responsibility the consequences of their actions.

Well, in the best of worlds the really stupid ones get taken out of the shallow end of the gene pool before they can reproduce. Sorta like pouring bleach into said pool! From the pic of the kid, looks like that was a good thing, which is further verified that he was drunk *and* high when this all went down. Face it, he was not future hero material - congressman, perhaps.

The 'cop' was off duty. He wasn't a real 'cop' at the time. That's probably the only reason he wasn't further punished.

Either way, he had to be pretty retarded to place himself in front of a moving vehicle.

And you guys have to be pretty damn stupid to think they were attempting to kill him. The driver wasn't the one that was killed, and would have been charged with attempted manslaughter had there been any actual evidence of an intent to kill.

But who cares, right? They were stealing, so that rent-a-cop had every right to kill that kid.

An eye for an eye? Or a life for a stack of pancakes?

Gallup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's take a poll. If you run out on a tab and
> drive towards an armed police officer, what do you
> think might happen next? Something good or
> perhaps something bad?
>
> The problem with libs/criminals is they seem to be
> unable to anticipate or take responsibility the
> consequences of their actions.

Oh that makes a lot of sense considering criminals can't vote. Hahaha go protest another funeral you fucking Westboro hate monger

The people arguing the other side of this incident are perfect proof as to why it happened in the first place. They've refered to the Police Officer as "Deputy Dumb-Shit", "Barney Fife", "Lard Ass", "Rent-A-Cop", "Security Guard", "Retard", "Shit for Brains", and a whole host of other things.

All you are demonstrating is the lack of respect for a Law Enforcement Officer that got you friend killed. Whether or not you LIKE Cops, whether or not you AGREE with Cops, whether or not you think Cops suck, you have to treat a Police Officer with RESPECT.

Your friends probably made the SAME mistake and treated the Officer as if he were nothing more than another anonymous "wage slave" like the waitress that they stole from. They accorded him NO respect, they disrepected his order to "STOP", and they probably thought that it would be FUNNY to make him dive out of the way of their speeding car. Maybe they thought they could all sit around later and laugh at "Deputy Dumb-Shit", and how they made him dive to the ground when he DARED to try to stop them. They didn't respect the Officer and they paid a heavy price for that.

You don't respect the Officers, and someday you will pay a price as well. They put their lives on the line on a daily basis and they are NEVER in the mood to take some shit from a bunch of entitled, spoiled, punk-ass kids who think that the World exists to serve them.

If you can't respect the Officer, you'd BETTER respect his right to KILL you if you threaten him in ANY manner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2012 09:43AM by Taylor.

Uhhh...He WAS a rent-a-cop, dumbshit. He was off duty, and working as a security guard.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The people arguing the other side of this incident
> are perfect proof as to why it happened in the
> first place. They've refered to the Police Officer
> as "Deputy Dumb-Shit", "Barney Fife", "Lard Ass",
> "Rent-A-Cop", "Security Guard", "Retard", "Shit
> for Brains", and a whole host of other things.

No those words are far too kind for him.

> All you are demonstrating is the lack of respect
> for a Law Enforcement Officer that got you friend
> killed.

Oh yeah we're really supposed to have respect for someone who gets away with murder simply because he is a cop. It's what is called corruption which according to you doesn't exist because everything a cop does is justifiable

> Whether or not you LIKE Cops, whether or
> not you AGREE with Cops, whether or not you think
> Cops suck, you have to treat a Police Officer with
> RESPECT.

I don't think anyone is bad mouthing cops in general just the one who was guilty of shooting some random kid in the back seat and getting away with it by saying "oh yeah um he tried to run me over." Sort of like the hillbilly cops down south who beat the shit out of minorities and say they "fell down."

> Your friends probably made the SAME mistake and
> treated the Officer as if he were nothing more
> than another anonymous "wage slave" like the
> waitress that they stole from. They accorded him
> NO respect, they disrepected his order to "STOP",
> and they probably thought that it would be FUNNY
> to make him dive out of the way of their speeding
> car. Maybe they thought they could all sit around
> later and laugh at "Deputy Dumb-Shit", and how
> they made him dive to the ground when he DARED to
> try to stop them. They didn't respect the Officer
> and they paid a heavy price for that.

No "Deputy Dumb-Shit," as you call him threw his fat ass in front of a moving car trying to be a super hero assuming the car would just come to a screeching halt. He then pulled the attempted murder card so he could be a wanna be John Wayne bad ass and shoot someone. What a real hero!

> You don't respect the Officers, and someday you
> will pay a price as well. They put their lives on
> the line on a daily basis and they are NEVER in
> the mood to take some shit from a bunch of
> entitled, spoiled, punk-ass kids who think that
> the World exists to serve them.

Really? You think police officers deserve more respect than members of our armed forces who are deployed overseas and don't know whether or not they will ever see their loved ones again? You think being a police officer at IHOP is more dangerous than doing foot patrol in some Afghani town whose name you can't even pronounce?

> If you can't respect the Officer, you'd BETTER
> respect his right to KILL you if you threaten him
> in ANY manner.

Yeah that was probably true in 1930's Nazi occupied Germany but in a modern day civilized society the police officer is supposed to set the example and be the better person. After all they are the ones in a position of respect

The problem with all law enforcement is that maybe less that 1% of the entire population does things for altruistic reasons. Being a cop is a job and one that most grow to loathe. Power corrupts people. Period. There ought to me a moratorium on being a cop.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with all law enforcement is that maybe
> less that 1% of the entire population does things
> for altruistic reasons. Being a cop is a job and
> one that most grow to loathe. Power corrupts
> people. Period. There ought to me a moratorium
> on being a cop.
Where do you get your statistic from? Or are you just talking out your ass,throwing figures around to give gravity to your bs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2012 12:02PM by Priapus.

and the kid sure needed a haircut

What happened?

hey Taylor go fuck your lard ass cop friend who shot the kid some more

Priapus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JBass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The problem with all law enforcement is that
> maybe
> > less that 1% of the entire population does
> things
> > for altruistic reasons. Being a cop is a job
> and
> > one that most grow to loathe. Power corrupts
> > people. Period. There ought to me a
> moratorium
> > on being a cop.
> Where do you get your statistic from? Or are you
> just talking out your ass,throwing figures around
> to give gravity to your bs?

Arent you silly. Of course that was a subjective statement. Anybody but a 12 year old could have gleaned that from the context. Are you a 12 year old? (Thats rhetorical, FYI)

This kid and his friends knowingly stole something and ran away. They ran to a car. When a LEO tried to stop them for the crime they had commited, they tried to run. One of them got killed for the crime. Everyone blames the over zealous cop who felt threatened enough to fire at the car.

1) the kids stole something
2) they ran
3) they saw a LEO with a gun and kept running
4) they paid the ultimate price

The only blame to be assigned here is to the kids who did it.
It is sad to hear about, it is a waste of a young life that may have had much potential. But him and his friends caused it to happen.

He was working as a security guard...
For IHOP...
He was NOT working as a cop. Stop portraying him as though he was working for the police department at the time.

No one has said even once that what those kids did wasn't wrong. Everyone understands that they attempted to steal their meals. You must be pretty slow to keep bringing that up.
It isn't relevant anyway. They hadn't just robbed a bank (or any place, for that matter), there was no justification for a firearm to be discharged, ESPECIALLY by some dumbshit security guard. It was food. Should we also shoot shop lifters if they try to escape?
You're fucking retarded, bro.

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should we also shoot shop lifters if they
> try to escape?

Why not? It would cut down on the instance of shoplifting crime pretty quickly. The kids in this case haven't stolen again, have they? Especially not ol' Aaron.

Was an Eagle Scout and musician...blah blah blah...Oh, and he and his friends skipped out on a tab at a pancake house and ignired an LEO. He is shot (as he should have been) while driving wrecklessly in the parking lot and his parents get 1.1 mill. This truly is a great country.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/va-supreme-court/1522025.html

Joe B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was an Eagle Scout and musician...blah blah
> blah...Oh, and he and his friends skipped out on a
> tab at a pancake house and ignired an LEO. He is
> shot (as he should have been) while driving
> wrecklessly in the parking lot and his parents get
> 1.1 mill. This truly is a great country.
>
>
> http://caselaw.findlaw.com/va-supreme-court/152202
> 5.html

lol are you fucking retarded? You think someone should be shot for skipping out on a check and ignoring a cop? You sound like a Taliban Muslim extremist, oh and you wanna bad mouth my fucking country? Do it somewhere else you worthless piece of shit! You terrorist Taliban asshole mother fucker

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was working as a security guard...
> For IHOP...
> He was NOT working as a cop. Stop portraying him
> as though he was working for the police department
> at the time.

He is not off duty in the sense you are talking about. In uniform but being paid by IHOP he is still a cop. If someone were to come up to him and say a robbery was occurring next door he couldnt say well I am not working for the city go call the police.
If a crime were to occur on IHOP property the arrest authority comes from being a police officer not a security guard. I dont know what happened in the civil portion of this event but I think the city was sued as well.

He was working for IHOP at the time, and there was not a robbery taking place next door, nor was there ANYTHING taking place to justify him deciding to put himself on duty (which REALLY isn't how it works anyway...). And even if he had been on duty, he still stepped in front of a moving vehicle and opened fire on some kids over some fucking pancakes (maybe they stole donuts too...).


But since you think everyone that breaks the law deserves to be punished so harshly, even for such a minor infraction, perhaps you would be in favor of implementing the Islamic Sharia code of law. Seems to be in line with your philosophy.

not off duty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ding an sich Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> If a crime were to occur on IHOP property the
> arrest authority comes from being a police officer
> not a security guard.

§ 9.1-146. Limitation on powers of registered armed security officers.

Compliance with the provisions of this article shall not itself authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or exercise any powers of a conservator of the peace. A registered armed security officer of a private security services business while at a location which the business is contracted to protect shall have the power to effect an arrest for an offense occurring (i) in his presence on such premises or (ii) in the presence of a merchant, agent, or employee of the merchant the private security business has contracted to protect, if the merchant, agent, or employee had probable cause to believe that the person arrested had shoplifted or committed willful concealment of goods as contemplated by § 18.2-106. For the purposes of § 19.2-74, a registered armed security officer of a private security services business shall be considered an arresting officer.

Did I say anything about what Brown deserved. You said the cop was off duty like he couldnt do anything beyond IHOP. If he is in uniform he is a cop with full arrest powers, powers given to him by the Commonwealth not IHOP.

Just to help you out: http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/settlements/08399/ihop-wrongful-death.html

"After voluntary mediation, a settlement was reached in which the Alexandria City Council agreed to pay $1.1 million to the Browns. As part of the settlement agreement, Police Chief David Baker agreed to institute policy changes to make it clear that officers should not fire their weapons at moving vehicles, thereby helping prevent anything like this from occurring again."

Joe B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was an Eagle Scout and musician...blah blah
> blah...Oh, and he and his friends skipped out on a
> tab at a pancake house and ignired an LEO. He is
> shot (as he should have been) while driving
> wrecklessly in the parking lot and his parents get
> 1.1 mill. This truly is a great country.
>
>
> http://caselaw.findlaw.com/va-supreme-court/152202
> 5.html

GTFO out of my country if you're gonna trash talk it like that you son of a dirty bitch!

this is why everyone should carry guns- to protect ourselves from violence in blue- if i had been there, i would have shot the cop down- people need to start fighting back

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently you think that you and your friends are
> not bound by the same rules and laws that the rest
> of us commoners are. You know, rules like not
> taking something without paying for it. For the
> REST of us, that is STEALING and therefore a moral
> and legal crime.


Of course eating at a restaurant and running out on the check is a crime and it's wrong to do. But that's not the story here. This is a story about excessive force and whether or not an off-duty cop should ever have used a firearm in his role as a security guard at an IHOP.

IMO, the off-duty cop should have just let the stupid kids drive off without trying to stop them. Hindsight is 20/20. What happens next is fuzzy. It doesn't make sense that these kids would turn their vehicle into a deadly weapon and try to kill a security guard to get away. Nor does it make sense that a security guard would shoot into a moving car to stop them. Yet one(if not both) of these events occurred.

If what thePackLeader posted is accurate and the bullets came in through the SIDE of the vehicle, this seems to be a pretty clear cut case of excessive force. I doubt this cop wanted to kill this kid and the things probably just happened so fast that he didn't have time to think before acting. But cops are suppose to be trained to deal with these types of situations. The death of this kid should not have happened.

I'm sure that there will be more than one version of this story when it goes to court, but the entry point of the bullets into the vehicle should be a major piece of evidence in reconstructing the sequence of events that led to this kid's death.

man, this is fascinating......watching ppl defend someone stealing from IHOP

just CLASSIC Enabling, dontcha think? LoLz

pic unrelated
Attachments:

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> man, this is fascinating......watching ppl defend
> someone stealing from IHOP
>
> just CLASSIC Enabling, dontcha think? LoLz
>
> pic unrelated


So are you dismissing the possibility that the security guard may have used excessive force in this instance?

This never happens at WNC, they always pay their tab.

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So are you dismissing the possibility that the
> security guard may have used excessive force in
> this instance?

No way. The police are NEVER wrong. I don't care how many people they have to kill just as long as I feel safe and don't have to deal with any riff raff.

I find it interesting that this turd, Ding an sich, appears to have an opinion on EVERYTHING. He posts 24/7 at least 50 times a day. I have an idea. Move out of mama's basement, quit sucking dick, and get a fucking job. Then, maybe then, will anyone take you seriously. Fucktard.

TheNorthman Wrote:

> Of course eating at a restaurant and running out
> on the check is a crime and it's wrong to do. But
> that's not the story here. This is a story about
> excessive force and whether or not an off-duty cop
> should ever have used a firearm in his role as a
> security guard at an IHOP.
>
> IMO, the off-duty cop should have just let the
> stupid kids drive off without trying to stop them.
> Hindsight is 20/20. What happens next is fuzzy.
> It doesn't make sense that these kids would turn
> their vehicle into a deadly weapon and try to kill
> a security guard to get away. Nor does it make
> sense that a security guard would shoot into a
> moving car to stop them. Yet one(if not both) of
> these events occurred.
>
> If what thePackLeader posted is accurate and the
> bullets came in through the SIDE of the vehicle,
> this seems to be a pretty clear cut case of
> excessive force. I doubt this cop wanted to kill
> this kid and the things probably just happened so
> fast that he didn't have time to think before
> acting. But cops are suppose to be trained to
> deal with these types of situations. The death of
> this kid should not have happened.


Shooting at the video point blank including into the side is what they are trained to do if a car is coming at them and not stopping. They dont train them to stop once the front of the car passes them. Once it got to that point he did exactly what he had been trained to do.

People can debate whether or not the cops actions were right and wrong all they want, but the vast majority of them would have acted the exact same way in that situation. Its easy to sit back and monday morning quarterback situations in slow motion with no threat. The entire incident from start to finish probably took less than a minute.

But as Ive said before regardless of anything the cop did, this incident was 100 percent preventable if the kids had either A not stolen, B stopped when a cop tells them to stop, C not driven off which almost certainly was at a high speed and very easily could be seen as an attempt to run him down. Anyone of them could have also chosen not to get into the car with a drunk driver and a cop chasing them. His death is sad, but it was several wrong decisions that led up to it not just some stupid teenage mistake that it started out as. When you consistently make the wrong decision and put yourself in situations like that nothing good can come from it

Look on the bright side, no trees were hurt.

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo

Pointing out an asshole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it interesting that this turd, Ding an
> sich, appears to have an opinion on EVERYTHING. He
> posts 24/7 at least 50 times a day. I have an
> idea. Move out of mama's basement, quit sucking
> dick, and get a fucking job. Then, maybe then,
> will anyone take you seriously. Fucktard.


You can throw Justsayin in the same category, another know it all who gets all their life experiences from randon internet posts.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shooting at the video point blank including into
> the side is what they are trained to do if a car
> is coming at them and not stopping. They dont
> train them to stop once the front of the car
> passes them. Once it got to that point he did
> exactly what he had been trained to do.

What department did YOU train in where they told you to continue firing into a vehicle after it has passed?

Yes, you're right the kids should not have:
A) Stolen
B) Continued instead of stopping when commanded to

However the cop should not have;
A) Endangered himself by stepping in front of the vehicle's path of travel.
B) Discharged his weapon after the vehicle passed, instead of simply getting the vehicles license plate

The fact is that both parties - not just the victim - made mistakes.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People can debate whether or not the cops actions
> were right and wrong all they want, but the vast
> majority of them would have acted the exact same
> way in that situation. Its easy to sit back and
> monday morning quarterback situations in slow
> motion with no threat. The entire incident from
> start to finish probably took less than a minute.

The average Joe on this website is not a trained LEO, so yes I would expect them to do the same thing. However, this was in fact a trained officer of the law who knew what he was doing. He is supposed to act differently in this situation then a normal citizen would. In addition to that, he placed himself in harm's way, which he should not have not have done. To reiterate, the vehicle was not coming towards him until he voluntarily moved so that he would be in the vehicle's path.

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No one has said even once that what those kids did
> wasn't wrong. Everyone understands that they
> attempted to steal their meals. You must be pretty
> slow to keep bringing that up.


Um........ in fact, several people have tried to say that what the kids did wasn't wrong, that it wasn't a crime, and that the Cop was the one in the wrong for even trying to stop it. And as far as your statement that, "You must be pretty slow to keep bringing that up." I would guide you to your incredibly statement, "An eye for an eye, or a life for a stack of pancakes?"

I think that maybe you are the one who might be slow since it's been stated AD NAUSEUM that the kids weren't shot at for stealing the pancakes. They were shot at for driving a vehicle directly at a Police Officer at a high rate of speed.

The fact that you keep trying to make at an issue of "He was killed for pancakes.", is because you can't defend their assault against an Officer so you keep trying to muddle the issue by repeatedly trying to make it seem like the cop shot at them for stealing some pancakes.

EVERYBODY knows that the stealing was only the first of several poor decisions they made that night. The final decision that got one of them killed was the attempted murder of an Officer of the Law.

rando3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If i had been there, i would have shot the cop down- people need
> to start fighting back

usa1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> GTFO out of my country if you're gonna trash talk
> like that you son of a dirty bitch!

warren Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> lol are you fucking retarded? You sound like a Taliban Muslim
> extremist, oh and you wanna bad mouth my fucking
> country? Do it somewhere else you worthless piece
> of shit! You terrorist Taliban asshole mother
> fucker!

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Shots shouldn't have been fired, ESPECIALLY by some dumbshit security guard.
> You're fucking retarded, bro.

taylorsucks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey Taylor go fuck your lard ass cop friend who
> shot the kid some more

fuct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No "Deputy Dumb-Shit," as you call him threw his
> fat ass in front of a moving car trying to be a
> super hero assuming the car would just come to a
> screeching halt. He then pulled the attempted
> murder card so he could be a wanna be John Wayne
> bad ass and shoot someone. What a real hero!

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He WAS a rent-a-cop, dumbshit.

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He wasn't a real 'cop' at
> the time. Either way, he had to be pretty retarded to place
> himself in front of a moving vehicle.
> And you guys have to be pretty damn stupid to
> think they were attempting to kill him.

fuct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
none of you except for the OP knew the kid so fuck all of you!

VinceRomano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
you dirty troll

fuct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuck all you goddamn trolls! Can't wait until
> tragedy hits you all because I will be there front
> and center laughing my fucking ass off

There is an old saying that "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak argument." I think that looking at some of these quotes makes it pretty obvious who is feeling a little unsteady in their opinions.

and you, Taylor, don't even have a leg to stand on

No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What department did YOU train in where they told
> you to continue firing into a vehicle after it has
> passed?

It hadnt passed it was in the process of going by. If your shooting its to kill and it comes in large volumes of fire. You have seen too many tv cop dramas. You shoot to kill and cops fire into vehicles that are a threat to hit them or ram them.

> Yes, you're right the kids should not have:
> A) Stolen
> B) Continued instead of stopping when commanded
> to
>
> However the cop should not have;
> A) Endangered himself by stepping in front of the
> vehicle's path of travel.
> B) Discharged his weapon after the vehicle passed,
> instead of simply getting the vehicles license
> plate
>
> The fact is that both parties - not just the
> victim - made mistakes.

Any mistake (which is debatable) that was made by the officer was a direct action of what the kids were doing. The driver made the most mistakes by far out of the kids, but that goes back to my point. When you engage in illegal activities and keep making the wrong decisions you risk something like this happening when you run with the wrong crowd.

> The average Joe on this website is not a trained
> LEO, so yes I would expect them to do the same
> thing. However, this was in fact a trained officer
> of the law who knew what he was doing. He is
> supposed to act differently in this situation then
> a normal citizen would. In addition to that, he
> placed himself in harm's way, which he should not
> have not have done. To reiterate, the vehicle was
> not coming towards him until he voluntarily moved
> so that he would be in the vehicle's path.

He was attempting to stop fleeing suspects. 99 percent of the population stops their car when someone steps in front of it especially if it is a cop. They however acted like criminals who will kill cops or had a complete disregard for everyone else and made no attempt to slow down. Their refusal to event attempt to slow down made them a threat not the cop stepping in front. If they were breaking he wouldnt have shot, they were not.

Again to many people on here expect the police to act like they see on tv dramas where they bend over backwards to criminals. He attempted to stop them, they didnt slow down and become a threat and he reacted as he was trained with deadly force.

@pathetic - then again, we are trying to reason with ppl who think it's ok to steal in the first place.............so it's kinda like we are talking to concrete in the first place, y'know?

@Taylor - VERY true, yr last two posts :)

@TheNorthman - No. What I am doing is pointing out that if the DUMB FUCKING KIDS had simply paid their tab (like normal ppl do..............is this REALLY that hard to understand), if theyd acted NORMAL instead of THUGLIKE none if this would have happened!!!

WHAT PART OF "YOU DONT FUCKING STEAL FROM A BUSINESS!" DO YOU PEOPLE NOT FUCKING GET!!?!?!!?!?!?!?!

lordy........it's like a Zippo Lighter without any flint with some of y'all

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Priapus Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JBass Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>

>
> Arent you silly. Of course that was a subjective
> statement. Anybody but a 12 year old could have
> gleaned that from the context. Are you a 12 year
> old? (Thats rhetorical, FYI)
Your statement wasn't subjective. It was a lie. You presented a statement as a fact when you totally made it up. I'm not 12 but I call bullshit when I read it. You must work for Fox News.

Looking forward to the next time one of you lowlife thugs skip out on a bill, try to run down a cop, and face whatever consequences come next. Then we can continue laughing here about your dumbass.

he got you, JBass.......

cause obviously, you were acting as if you'd taken a poll of everybody on Earth, and were presenting that "1%" as definite fact.

I'm glad Priapus called you out (since he/she is better than you, y'know) on your misstatement, and OF COURSE since they were calling you out about you not stating facts, they themselves presented evidence and proof debunking your claim and backing up their.............................oh, hey what a minute. LoLz
Attachments:

@Jon - hey, I for one and VERY saddened. If we allow cops to blast these kids, then how are they going to grow up get drunk in the middle of the street on 4Loko, or stab each other behind shopping centers, or whatnot.?

Pic Unrelated
Attachments:

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > What department did YOU train in where they
> told
> > you to continue firing into a vehicle after it
> has
> > passed?
>
> It hadnt passed it was in the process of going by.
> If your shooting its to kill and it comes in
> large volumes of fire. You have seen too many tv
> cop dramas. You shoot to kill and cops fire into
> vehicles that are a threat to hit them or ram
> them.
>
> > Yes, you're right the kids should not have:
> > A) Stolen
> > B) Continued instead of stopping when commanded
> > to
> >
> > However the cop should not have;
> > A) Endangered himself by stepping in front of
> the
> > vehicle's path of travel.
> > B) Discharged his weapon after the vehicle
> passed,
> > instead of simply getting the vehicles license
> > plate
> >
> > The fact is that both parties - not just the
> > victim - made mistakes.
>
> Any mistake (which is debatable) that was made by
> the officer was a direct action of what the kids
> were doing. The driver made the most mistakes by
> far out of the kids, but that goes back to my
> point. When you engage in illegal activities and
> keep making the wrong decisions you risk something
> like this happening when you run with the wrong
> crowd.
>
> > The average Joe on this website is not a
> trained
> > LEO, so yes I would expect them to do the same
> > thing. However, this was in fact a trained
> officer
> > of the law who knew what he was doing. He is
> > supposed to act differently in this situation
> then
> > a normal citizen would. In addition to that, he
> > placed himself in harm's way, which he should
> not
> > have not have done. To reiterate, the vehicle
> was
> > not coming towards him until he voluntarily
> moved
> > so that he would be in the vehicle's path.
>
> He was attempting to stop fleeing suspects. 99
> percent of the population stops their car when
> someone steps in front of it especially if it is a
> cop. They however acted like criminals who will
> kill cops or had a complete disregard for everyone
> else and made no attempt to slow down. Their
> refusal to event attempt to slow down made them a
> threat not the cop stepping in front. If they
> were breaking he wouldnt have shot, they were
> not.
>
> Again to many people on here expect the police to
> act like they see on tv dramas where they bend
> over backwards to criminals. He attempted to stop
> them, they didnt slow down and become a threat and
> he reacted as he was trained with deadly force.

tl;dr
Attachments:

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he got you, JBass.......
>
> cause obviously, you were acting as if you'd taken
> a poll of everybody on Earth, and were presenting
> that "1%" as definite fact.
>
> I'm glad Priapus called you out (since he/she is
> better than you, y'know) on your misstatement, and
> OF COURSE since they were calling you out about
> you not stating facts, they themselves presented
> evidence and proof debunking your claim and
> backing up their.............................oh,
> hey what a minute. LoLz

Good point except I just asked for his evidence it was a true statement. He didn't present any evidence for me to refute.He said his statement was supposed to be subjective, but that's not how he presented it.

well, that's cause most of us have this here "common sense" thingee going on.....................o_0
aint noone in his/her right mind actually sees that JBass quote as a legit or accurate poll, nor would anybody in their right mind even think that..............

whoops, almost forgot

pic unrelated



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2012 10:31PM by Gordon Blvd.
Attachments:

Have you polled the members here to accurately say how many have "common sense" or are you talking out of your ass too?

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @TheNorthman - No. What I am doing is pointing
> out that if the DUMB FUCKING KIDS had simply paid
> their tab (like normal ppl do..............is this
> REALLY that hard to understand), if theyd acted
> NORMAL instead of THUGLIKE none if this would have
> happened!!!

See my earlier post below

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course eating at a restaurant and running out
> on the check is a crime and it's wrong to do. But
> that's not the story here. This is a story about
> excessive force and whether or not an off-duty cop
> should ever have used a firearm in his role as a
> security guard at an IHOP.

Of course these kids should have paid for their meal or not gone to IHOP to begin with if they had no money. The fact that a security guard was there should have served as a further deterent against their actions but...

No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
However the cop should not have;
A) Endangered himself by stepping in front of the vehicle's path of travel.
B) Discharged his weapon after the vehicle passed, instead of simply getting the vehicles license plate

There is NO question that these kids made a bunch of bad(and immoral) decisions which ultimately led to this death and are certainly culpable here. That having been said, IMO, the primary issue here is still whether of not the cop used excessive force (shooting into a passing car) relative to the crime being committed/threat (dine and dash).

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is NO question that these kids made a bunch
> of bad(and immoral) decisions which ultimately led
> to this death and are certainly culpable here.
> That having been said, IMO, the primary issue here
> is still whether of not the cop used excessive
> force (shooting into a passing car) relative to
> the crime being committed/threat (dine and dash).


Youre looking at it wrong though. He stepped in front of the car to stop them from leaving.

But ONCE he was in front of the car the fact that they didnt stop or slow down is what lead to the shooting, the dine and dash isnt why he shot them. He shot at them because once he was in front of the car they didnt so much as break. The driver either really was trying to kill the cop or decided it was a good idea to play chicken with the cop like he wasnt going to respond in any way.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Youre looking at it wrong though. He stepped in
> front of the car to stop them from leaving.
>
> But ONCE he was in front of the car the fact that
> they didnt stop or slow down is what lead to the
> shooting, the dine and dash isnt why he shot them.
> He shot at them because once he was in front of
> the car they didnt so much as break. The driver
> either really was trying to kill the cop or
> decided it was a good idea to play chicken with
> the cop like he wasnt going to respond in any way.

I agree with you more or less. They DEFINITELY should have stopped when commanded to do so. Hell, they shouldn't have even been in this situation to begin with if they had just paid for their food like everyone else. This isn't a clear cut issue here and it's certainly understandable how the cop could have felt his life was in danger(and it may well have been).

But its still my opinion that the cop made a mistake by stepping in the path of a fleeing vehicle(if that's how it actually happened) and subsequently used excessive force by shooting at a passing vehicle (again, if that's how it happened). However, if these kids attempted to turn their vehicle into a deadly weapon, then the cop was certainly justified in defending himself by using deadly force if necessary. But the fact that the bullets came in through the side would seem to indicate otherwise and it was probably a bad idea to step in front of a fleeing vehicle to begin with (which dramatically escalated situation's danger level), especially, when considering the fact that the crime in progress was "dine and dash". That's all I'm saying. Its just a real unfortunate event all around.

TheNorthman Wrote:

> I agree with you more or less. They DEFINITELY
> should have stopped when commanded to do so.
> Hell, they shouldn't have even been in this
> situation to begin with if they had just paid for
> their food like everyone else. This isn't a clear
> cut issue here and it's certainly understandable
> how the cop could have felt his life was in
> danger(and it may well have been).
>
> But its still my opinion that the cop made a
> mistake by stepping in the path of a fleeing
> vehicle(if that's how it actually happened) and
> subsequently used excessive force by shooting at a
> passing vehicle (again, if that's how it
> happened). However, if these kids attempted to
> turn their vehicle into a deadly weapon, then the
> cop was certainly justified in defending himself
> by using deadly force if necessary. But the fact
> that the bullets came in through the side would
> seem to indicate otherwise and it was probably a
> bad idea to step in front of a fleeing vehicle to
> begin with (which dramatically escalated
> situation's danger level), especially, when
> considering the fact that the crime in progress
> was "dine and dash". That's all I'm saying. Its
> just a real unfortunate event all around.


I agree with that for the most part. I believe he was well within his right to step out in front to get them to stop since its not like he jumped out last second.

But I do think that regardless of whether or not he should have stepped in front doesnt really matter in this situation. They should have been stopping or trying to stop the car if ANYONE was in the way, but they werent. Cop or not if someone is in the road you slow down or stop not just keep going.

I would also argue that the fact it was just a dine n dash makes the drivers actions even more outrageous. The cop was probably thinking they would stop and just fess up since it wasnt a huge deal. Normal people would have just said okay you caught me were sorry we tried to get away but couldnt, not just keep going and hope he moves.

We will never know what actually happened since the department was more than happy to just make him a scape goat to make the whole thing go away. It was also cheaper for them to just pay the settlement then fight it. The internal investigation found that while he shouldnt have stepped in front of the vehicle, but once he was there he acted properly with his response. The news articles said he shoot as the car as it was coming at him and as it passed, I dont think the shots to the side were the only ones that hit the car.

Regardless though a lot of things happened that night that shouldnt have. I find it reprehensible that people (not you) are trying to place the blame solely on the officer because a group of drunk/high kids thought they were untouchable. I do agree 100 percent that it is sad it ended that way and personally blame the driver for getting his friend killed.

murder for pancakes no jail. I can has too?

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ding an sich Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > No one has said even once that what those kids
> did
> > wasn't wrong. Everyone understands that they
> > attempted to steal their meals. You must be
> pretty
> > slow to keep bringing that up.
>
>
> Um........ in fact, several people have tried to
> say that what the kids did wasn't wrong, that it
> wasn't a crime, and that the Cop was the one in
> the wrong for even trying to stop it.

I don't recall anyone making that argument, but I think everyone knows that's not true. Anyone trying to argue that the kids were right to steal really isn't even worth paying attention to.

> And as far
> as your statement that, "You must be pretty slow
> to keep bringing that up." I would guide you to
> your incredibly statement, "An eye for an eye, or
> a life for a stack of pancakes?"

Glad you found my statement to be 'incredibly'...

> I think that maybe you are the one who might be
> slow since it's been stated AD NAUSEUM that the
> kids weren't shot at for stealing the pancakes.
> They were shot at for driving a vehicle directly
> at a Police Officer at a high rate of speed.

Once again, the SECURITY GUARD placed HIMSELF in front of a MOVING vehicle. The driver was NOT charged with attempted manslaughter, so you have no argument here. They were not attempting to run him down, or whatever it is you're claiming. They were only trying to escape.
You REALLY think some kids running on a bill would try to kill some security guard in the process? Even most bank robbers try to avoid that.

> The fact that you keep trying to make at an issue
> of "He was killed for pancakes.", is because you
> can't defend their assault against an Officer so
> you keep trying to muddle the issue by repeatedly
> trying to make it seem like the cop shot at them
> for stealing some pancakes.

He shot at them because they were getting away.
Getting away with stealing pancakes.
Any danger to the security guard was due to his own foolish actions.

> EVERYBODY knows that the stealing was only the
> first of several poor decisions they made that
> night. The final decision that got one of them
> killed was the attempted murder of an Officer of
> the Law.

Yes, the stealing is wrong, as was trying to get away.
But, they did NOT try to kill anyone. Once again, the driver would have been charged with attempted manslaughter were that actually the case.

Since the Master of Metal decided to post about Aaron Brown, I can only assume that the proper action was to nuke that IHOP

Music teacher?????...there are only so many elementary schools good thing they killed this guy the job force right now is kind of down right now with all the fairfax county pedophiles teaching music. one less MUSIC teacher of the streets!!!!!

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Once again, the SECURITY GUARD placed HIMSELF in
> front of a MOVING vehicle.


You can continue to make this point all you want to, but the fact is that "Off Duty Police Officer" = "COP"! Whether he is on duty or off duty, he is STILL a Police Officer. He does not magically lose his police powers the minute his shift ends.

What makes these kids even stupider is the fact that he was wearing his FULL POLICE UNIFORM. These kids didn't think they were dealing with a "Security Guard". They saw a Police Officer in full uniform and thought they were dealing with a COP, (which they were).

You need to get it through your head that a Police Officer who is moonlighting at IHOP to make a few extra bucks is STILL a Police Officer.

Two issues there. The first is that he put himself in front of a vehicle in motion. That one's pretty straight-forward.
The second has to do with him being off-duty. Yes, and off-duty cop is still a cop, but what was he attempting to do? Make an arrest? In such a scenario (off-duty cop working as a security guard attempting to stop a theft), his job is to attempt to detain the suspects, while an ON-DUTY cop makes his way to the scene to perform the arrest. Off-duty cops aren't supposed to go around arresting people. Do you know many cops?

@Northman - yr right. No argument here.............or from City of Alex, or the FBI, or from IHOP who all have said the cop made a bad call, as far as I can tell. I think he made a bad call and I guess the cop feels he made a bad call too since he left the force and all.

All that being said, cop didnt commit a crime. Those kids did. Kids INTENTIONALLY came to a location with the INTENT of commiting a crime.

Mr. Po-Po...............though he DID make a mistake............well, I'm sorry but all he was doing was sitting there doing his job. Wasnt INTENDING to commit a crime, but when he saw what was going on, he left "Security" mode and went into "Cop" mode, something he should not have done.

Now, while in "Cop" mode, things happen REAL QUICK. I suggest none of y'all fuck around with that, yo.

Anywho, like I've said a zillion times before, cop made mistake, but cop did NOT commit a crime. And anybody PROFESSIONAL who's looked at the case made the same conclusion, both morally and legally: That cop was wrong to make those choices, but that it's understandable he made the error he did give the FACT THOSE KIDS INTENTIONALLY FORCED HIM INTO THAT SITUATION that resulted in those bad choices made, that's all I'm saying.

@Ding - two issues here
first - those stupid kids ran out on paying for the FOOD and SERVICES they were provided - That one's pretty straight-forward.

The second has to do with them feeling as thought they were ENTITLED to take what they want when they want. Were they raised to think of others as slaves, to work for them for nothing? Are their parents thugs too? Do you know many worthless people who rob, steal, take from others like it's nothing, will ignore the law, the police, etc.?


link unrelated

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-offduty-cop-fires-on-vehicle-that-struck-him-20120229,0,1092797.story

When a bill comes for your pancakes, you pay it. When a cop tells you to stop your car, you stop. These are basic rules in life. Why is there even a debate?

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

No one has tried to argue that what the kids did was right. Were the kids off-duty cops? It's simple - they stole, they tried to run, it was wrong - end of story. Nothing to say there.

The issue is the off-duty cop and his itchy trigger-finger. Or should we just shoot anyone anytime they do something wrong? Perhaps you should be shot for your failure to utilize proper capitalization...

As cited in the Chicago article, a car is considered a deadly weapon when it is used to hit a cop. The cop stepped out of the way, but as far as he knew at that moment, the driver was trying to run him down. If someone takes a shot at a cop and misses, the cop still has the option to respond with deadly force.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

moving vehicle...

off-duty cops PLACES himself in its path...

Driver was NOT charged with attempted manslaughter...


No excuse for the cops actions.

There's really no point in arguing. The kid isn't coming back and the officer isn't going to jail.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm