Whatever happened to the cop who shot and killed the teenager who was driving away after Dining and Dashing at the Alexandria IHOP?

From what I remember he was hired by IHOP, he was off duty, the teenagers dined and dashed were driving towards him, he said they were trying to hit him, so he pulled his gun and fired multiple times as the car passed him hitting and killing the kid in the back seat. The key was he fired as the car was past him, so he was out of danger BUT decided to shoot anyway.

The result was good. Dining and dashing decreased by 67% at IHOPs in the region.

Agreed, kept the prices down and hopped up customers from dining there

I love these feel good threads.
Bravo to the cops shooting skills.

He was awarded a lifetime Rooty Tooty Fresh 'N Fruity card for free meals.

Highlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was awarded a lifetime Rooty Tooty Fresh 'N
> Fruity card for free meals.


Nah, they issue those in the academy.

Who cares what happned to him....some kid got smoked for breaking the law whomp whomp

ok back to the topic here's a rumor I heard. Supposedly the shooting really messed with the cop mentally and he had to be committed. Of course he was relieved of duty after the murder. Combination of PTSD, death threats from the kid's friends, family, and the fact that he shot a kid was apparently too much for him to handle. Go figure

The officer in the IHOP shooting is now a local home improvement contractor. FCPD has a warrant out on him in relation to the "illegals for hire" scheme where the illegals were being killed at the end of the job in order that the contractor could avoid paying them. Several bodies were found in the dumpster of the IHOP on the night of the shooting.

iHeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok back to the topic here's a rumor I heard.
> Supposedly the shooting really messed with the cop
> mentally and he had to be committed. Of course he
> was relieved of duty after the murder.
> Combination of PTSD, death threats from the kid's
> friends, family, and the fact that he shot a kid
> was apparently too much for him to handle. Go
> figure


I don't think you're correct. http://www.wtop.com/?nid=&sid=1021053

He retired with full benefits.

"Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer Stowe had followed his police department's rules," the family announced in a statement through their attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker has announced a new policy...we hope this prevents other needless deaths."


How about Aaron would not have died if he has paid for his meal as does everyone else. This is why youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find excuses to justify actions that are simply unacceptable.

No excuse for shooting the kid. Why not taser him instead. I am sure we paid a lot of our taxes in the wrongful death case.

Please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No excuse for shooting the kid. Why not taser him
> instead. I am sure we paid a lot of our taxes in
> the wrongful death case.


Yes, tase a kid in a moving car. Way to think that one out Einstein.

The kid set a series of events into motion that lead to his own death.

... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer Stowe
> had followed his police department's rules," the
> family announced in a statement through their
> attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker
> has announced a new policy...we hope this prevents
> other needless deaths."
>
>
> How about Aaron would not have died if he has paid
> for his meal as does everyone else. This is why
> youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find
> excuses to justify actions that are simply
> unacceptable.


Man what a bunch of fucking assholes respond on here.... A kid gets shot and killed for dining and dashing and the biggest asshole of all replies, that had he paid for his meal he wouldn't have been shot and then blames the parents for saying something. I tell you what asshole! Why dont we follow you around and the next time you speed above the posted limit we blow your head off..... don't do the crime if you can't do the time!! that will teach you to speed!

... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> How about Aaron would not have died if he has paid
> for his meal as does everyone else. This is why
> youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find
> excuses to justify actions that are simply
> unacceptable.

So, by your logic...anyone who skips on a restaurant check DESERVES to be shot and killed in the parking lot? Mind you, I'm not advocating that they get to walk out on their check with NO repurcussions but, the dude didn't need to smoke the kid for it.

You're a moonlighting Alexandria Police Officer working at an IHOP. Somebody comes in and tries to rob the place yeah...you smoke THAT person. Empty the clip on THAT person. Somebody skips out on a check and you can't restrain them prior to reaching their vehicle yeah...you take down the plates and call your detective buddy that's alwyas cracking your nuts for repeatedly failing the sergeant's exam and tell him you've got an easy collar for him to follow up on...

Captain.20 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > How about Aaron would not have died if he has
> paid
> > for his meal as does everyone else. This is why
> > youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find
> > excuses to justify actions that are simply
> > unacceptable.
>
> So, by your logic...anyone who skips on a
> restaurant check DESERVES to be shot and killed in
> the parking lot? Mind you, I'm not advocating that
> they get to walk out on their check with NO
> repurcussions but, the dude didn't need to smoke
> the kid for it.
>
> You're a moonlighting Alexandria Police Officer
> working at an IHOP. Somebody comes in and tries to
> rob the place yeah...you smoke THAT person. Empty
> the clip on THAT person. Somebody skips out on a
> check and you can't restrain them prior to
> reaching their vehicle yeah...you take down the
> plates and call your detective buddy that's alwyas
> cracking your nuts for repeatedly failing the
> sergeant's exam and tell him you've got an easy
> collar for him to follow up on...


This saved the taxpayers the cost of an investigation, arrest, trial and incarceration.

4real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer
> Stowe
> > had followed his police department's rules,"
> the
> > family announced in a statement through their
> > attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker
> > has announced a new policy...we hope this
> prevents
> > other needless deaths."
> >
> >
> > How about Aaron would not have died if he has
> paid
> > for his meal as does everyone else. This is why
> > youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find
> > excuses to justify actions that are simply
> > unacceptable.
>
>
> Man what a bunch of fucking assholes respond on
> here.... A kid gets shot and killed for dining and
> dashing and the biggest asshole of all replies,
> that had he paid for his meal he wouldn't have
> been shot and then blames the parents for saying
> something. I tell you what asshole! Why dont we
> follow you around and the next time you speed
> above the posted limit we blow your head off.....
> don't do the crime if you can't do the time!!
> that will teach you to speed!

Your logic makes absolutely no sense. If the kid and his dumbass drunk friends wouldn't have dine and dashed, disregarded a police officer's orders, and then drove at him, he wouldn't have got shot. You're almost as dumb as the parents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 03:08PM by jigga.

4real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer
> Stowe
> > had followed his police department's rules,"
> the
> > family announced in a statement through their
> > attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker
> > has announced a new policy...we hope this
> prevents
> > other needless deaths."
> >
> >
> > How about Aaron would not have died if he has
> paid
> > for his meal as does everyone else. This is why
> > youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find
> > excuses to justify actions that are simply
> > unacceptable.
>
>
> Man what a bunch of fucking assholes respond on
> here.... A kid gets shot and killed for dining and
> dashing and the biggest asshole of all replies,
> that had he paid for his meal he wouldn't have
> been shot and then blames the parents for saying
> something. I tell you what asshole! Why dont we
> follow you around and the next time you speed
> above the posted limit we blow your head off.....
> don't do the crime if you can't do the time!!
> that will teach you to speed!

That is a great idea! The way people drive around here they should be shot.
Lets also shoot:
Flash Mob participants
7-11 trolling Beaners
All Yuppies
Most Koreans (excepting the ones who work in the massage places)
Thank You!

One less teenage dirtbag. Had he simply paid for his meal, none of this would have occurred. I blame the parents for raising such an irresponsible teenager. The cop may or may not have violated policy yet no criminal charges were filed so the homicide has been found to be justified.

jigga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4real Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ... Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer
> > Stowe
> > > had followed his police department's rules,"
> > the
> > > family announced in a statement through their
> > > attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief
> Baker
> > > has announced a new policy...we hope this
> > prevents
> > > other needless deaths."
> > >
> > >
> > > How about Aaron would not have died if he has
> > paid
> > > for his meal as does everyone else. This is
> why
> > > youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find
> > > excuses to justify actions that are simply
> > > unacceptable.
> >
> >
> > Man what a bunch of fucking assholes respond on
> > here.... A kid gets shot and killed for dining
> and
> > dashing and the biggest asshole of all replies,
> > that had he paid for his meal he wouldn't have
> > been shot and then blames the parents for
> saying
> > something. I tell you what asshole! Why dont
> we
> > follow you around and the next time you speed
> > above the posted limit we blow your head
> off.....
> > don't do the crime if you can't do the time!!
> > that will teach you to speed!
>
> Your logic makes absolutely no sense. If the kid
> and his dumbass drunk friends wouldn't have dine
> and dashed, disregarded a police officer's orders,
> and then drove at him, he wouldn't have got shot.
> You're almost as dumb as the parents.


Listen you stupid fucking Nazi, you are to stupid to use the word logic, never mind following any. Of course you cant follow it.. it doesn't lead you to where you want to go. The Logic you idiotstick is NOONE should be shot for any circumstance involving a $26 item or charge. Why did this cop put himself
in this situation over a $26 IHOP check? What the Fuck is this guys deal.. we are talking about an 18 year old kid, Eagle Scout who this Barney Fife cop shot and killed because he did not pay a $26 IHOP check. Why not just jump out of the way... the 53 page report of the incident says Barney started firing as the Jeep was turning towards him in the parking lot... he shot 6 times!!! He hit the jeep from the front all the way to rear .... He fired with a 2 handed grip! Doesnt sound like he was in danger to me .... Probably why Alexandria paid $1.1 million to the family in a civil suit BUT gave him a 3 day suspension.

4real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen you stupid fucking Nazi,


That is where I stopped reading. Throwing the Nazi label out negates anything meaningful you might have to say....

4real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jigga Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 4real Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ... Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer
> > > Stowe
> > > > had followed his police department's
> rules,"
> > > the
> > > > family announced in a statement through
> their
> > > > attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief
> > Baker
> > > > has announced a new policy...we hope this
> > > prevents
> > > > other needless deaths."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How about Aaron would not have died if he
> has
> > > paid
> > > > for his meal as does everyone else. This is
> > why
> > > > youth is out of hands nowadays, parents
> find
> > > > excuses to justify actions that are simply
> > > > unacceptable.
> > >
> > >
> > > Man what a bunch of fucking assholes respond
> on
> > > here.... A kid gets shot and killed for
> dining
> > and
> > > dashing and the biggest asshole of all
> replies,
> > > that had he paid for his meal he wouldn't
> have
> > > been shot and then blames the parents for
> > saying
> > > something. I tell you what asshole! Why
> dont
> > we
> > > follow you around and the next time you speed
> > > above the posted limit we blow your head
> > off.....
> > > don't do the crime if you can't do the time!!
>
> > > that will teach you to speed!
> >
> > Your logic makes absolutely no sense. If the
> kid
> > and his dumbass drunk friends wouldn't have
> dine
> > and dashed, disregarded a police officer's
> orders,
> > and then drove at him, he wouldn't have got
> shot.
> > You're almost as dumb as the parents.
>
>
> Listen you stupid fucking Nazi, you are to stupid
> to use the word logic, never mind following any.
> Of course you cant follow it.. it doesn't lead you
> to where you want to go. The Logic you idiotstick
> is NOONE should be shot for any circumstance
> involving a $26 item or charge. Why did this cop
> put himself
> in this situation over a $26 IHOP check? What the
> Fuck is this guys deal.. we are talking about an
> 18 year old kid, Eagle Scout who this Barney Fife
> cop shot and killed because he did not pay a $26
> IHOP check. Why not just jump out of the way...
> the 53 page report of the incident says Barney
> started firing as the Jeep was turning towards him
> in the parking lot... he shot 6 times!!! He hit
> the jeep from the front all the way to rear ....
> He fired with a 2 handed grip! Doesnt sound like
> he was in danger to me .... Probably why
> Alexandria paid $1.1 million to the family in a
> civil suit BUT gave him a 3 day suspension.

If you're going to try and come at me with your bullshit, get your grammar right fucktard.

"Listen you stupid fucking Nazi, you are to stupid to use the word logic"

I believe you're looking for the word 'too'. Were you the dumbass driver? You seem a little sensitive about the subject.

Godwin's law

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

4real, non-empathetic facist is the term I would've used

jigga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your logic makes absolutely no sense. If the kid
> and his dumbass drunk friends wouldn't have dine
> and dashed, disregarded a police officer's orders,
> and then drove at him, he wouldn't have got shot.
> You're almost as dumb as the parents.

He was in the BACK SEAT, he had no control over the vehicle. If you suggest that he should've exited the moving vehicle then you're as stupid and shortsighted as the cop was. Also, if you knew anything about what police are trained to do when there is a car coming towards them you would know that you do not fire randomly into the vehicle. You aim to disable the driver, NOT the passengers who have no control over the vehicle who may or may not be unwilling participants. Not to mention the range he was at makes it so there should be no excuse as to why he was firing at the passengers. The fact is that the officer acted negligently without due concern for the safety of the passengers and others in the immediate vincinty, and choose to discharge his firearm.

He made a good point. No prizes for style/grammar though.
A small property crime is no reason to smoke someone. Virginia law has been established about this for a LONG time. You just try killing some kid who steals your $50 lawn gnome and see where it gets you.
The cop in this case was clearly over-zealous in stepping in front of the Jeep. He put himself in that situation unnecessarily. I'm not sure what the prosecutor should have charged him with, but it doesn't sound like his punishment was sufficient.

Maybe his asshole buddies learned just to pay their bill next time, but I doubt it

I hope the supporters on this thread are not other officers.

If that is the case FXPD, arlington pd should clean house. I'm sure there's plenty of qualified people who would love to take their job.

Let's get the IA investigation going.

It happened in Alexandria with the Alexandria police, plus its old news. Dont get too worked up junior

I say the cop was in the wrong to shoot an unarmed kid doing a Dine and Dash at the IHOP.

Anyone know how much the bill was?

Life is worth more then a few bucks.

Uh, No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4real, non-empathetic facist is the term I
> would've used
>
> jigga Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your logic makes absolutely no sense. If the
> kid
> > and his dumbass drunk friends wouldn't have
> dine
> > and dashed, disregarded a police officer's
> orders,
> > and then drove at him, he wouldn't have got
> shot.
> > You're almost as dumb as the parents.
>
> He was in the BACK SEAT, he had no control over
> the vehicle. If you suggest that he should've
> exited the moving vehicle then you're as stupid
> and shortsighted as the cop was. Also, if you knew
> anything about what police are trained to do when
> there is a car coming towards them you would know
> that you do not fire randomly into the vehicle.
> You aim to disable the driver, NOT the passengers
> who have no control over the vehicle who may or
> may not be unwilling participants. Not to mention
> the range he was at makes it so there should be no
> excuse as to why he was firing at the passengers.
> The fact is that the officer acted negligently
> without due concern for the safety of the
> passengers and others in the immediate vincinty,
> and choose to discharge his firearm.

He chose to get in the vehicle while a crime was in progress, dickhead. The cop tried to disable the driver but obviously missed. Don't do stupid shit like these assholes and you won't have to worry about things like this. You and 4real should go fuck each other with your irrefutable logic.

jigga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh, No Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 4real, non-empathetic facist is the term I
> > would've used
> >
> > jigga Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Your logic makes absolutely no sense. If the
> > kid
> > > and his dumbass drunk friends wouldn't have
> > dine
> > > and dashed, disregarded a police officer's
> > orders,
> > > and then drove at him, he wouldn't have got
> > shot.
> > > You're almost as dumb as the parents.
> >
> > He was in the BACK SEAT, he had no control over
> > the vehicle. If you suggest that he should've
> > exited the moving vehicle then you're as stupid
> > and shortsighted as the cop was. Also, if you
> knew
> > anything about what police are trained to do
> when
> > there is a car coming towards them you would
> know
> > that you do not fire randomly into the vehicle.
> > You aim to disable the driver, NOT the
> passengers
> > who have no control over the vehicle who may or
> > may not be unwilling participants. Not to
> mention
> > the range he was at makes it so there should be
> no
> > excuse as to why he was firing at the
> passengers.
> > The fact is that the officer acted negligently
> > without due concern for the safety of the
> > passengers and others in the immediate
> vincinty,
> > and choose to discharge his firearm.
>
> He chose to get in the vehicle while a crime was
> in progress, dickhead. The cop tried to disable
> the driver but obviously missed. Don't do stupid
> shit like these assholes and you won't have to
> worry about things like this. You and 4real should
> go fuck each other with your irrefutable logic.


That's no excuse whatsoever. Trying to disable a vehicle by blasting away at it, all for skipping out on a bill? That's manslaughter right there.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

I meant they should investigate cops on this board supporting this jerk and fire them too.

It may have happened a while ago, but the fact that the cop still hasn't been punished is still relevant.

jigga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He chose to get in the vehicle while a crime was
> in progress, dickhead. The cop tried to disable
> the driver but obviously missed. Don't do stupid
> shit like these assholes and you won't have to
> worry about things like this. You and 4real should
> go fuck each other with your irrefutable logic.

He got in a vehicle to flee the scene of a misdemeanor crime. That in no way should mean he deserves to die. And. if the cop did not have a clear shot on the driver, then he should not have fired. Again, no excuse. I'm not saying these kids are the innocent victims here, I'm saying the cop acted negligently and killed a person. The point is, people make bad choices (both parties in this case). This crime out of all of them, is pretty much the most harmless crime on the book. And if you truly believe that this kid deserved to die because he skipped out on a bill and got into a car, then I'm sorry us mere humans don't always make the right descisions like your infallible ass.

LakeRoyal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The officer in the IHOP shooting is now a local
> home improvement contractor. FCPD has a warrant
> out on him in relation to the "illegals for hire"
> scheme where the illegals were being killed at the
> end of the job in order that the contractor could
> avoid paying them. Several bodies were found in
> the dumpster of the IHOP on the night of the
> shooting.

Damn you. ^^^ made me LOL which means I spend too much time reading this stupid board.

All the people bitching about the Cop taking the shot are the same bitches that pull this kinda shit themselves and say it's "unfair" because they don't want to get shot themselves.

If you don't want to get shot, it's simple. Don't steal, and don't attempt to assault a Police Officer who tries to apprehend you if you do. You can say, "The kid who got shot wasn't driving", all you want to. It doesn't matter. If I'm in a car with guys that try to run down a Cop and I get shot in the chaos, them maybe I should have made better choices about my actions and the type of people I associated with.

This kid hung out with the sort of people that would steal and then run over a Police Officer. Cry me a river. It's one less punk, thief that I have to worry about. If you don't want to get fucked up then DON'T FUCK UP.

The off-duty officer who jumped in front of a moving vehicle and used the result of that action to claim self-defense and shoot the driver is who-knows-where, but not in jail for the shooting.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I meant they should investigate cops on this board
> supporting this jerk and fire them too.
>
> It may have happened a while ago, but the fact
> that the cop still hasn't been punished is still
> relevant.


Who should investigate what cops? Mom has your oatmeal ready, head to dinner

Watch out kids. FC police will shoot to kill over twenty bucks. Is this justice or an overzelous cop?

cop deserves to be shot

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The off-duty officer who jumped in front of a
> moving vehicle and used the result of that action
> to claim self-defense and shoot the driver is
> who-knows-where, but not in jail for the shooting.

Pgens, you seem a little bit slow so I'll try to explain it to you.

Yes, the Cop "jumped" in front of the vehicle. You see, he was trying to STOP them from LEAVING! That's generally what Cops do when someone has stolen something and is then attempting to FLEE the scene. Maybe you just don't understand what a Cop does. See, when a Police Officer witnesses someone stealing, it's then the Cop's JOB to try and STOP the thief. Additionally, it's the thief's responsibility to not try and run the Officer over if the thief DOESN'T WANT HIS DUMB ASS SHOT!

What a retard you are.

Fuck you nigger.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I meant they should investigate cops on this board
> supporting this jerk and fire them too.
>
> It may have happened a while ago, but the fact
> that the cop still hasn't been punished is still
> relevant.


lol

Sometimes people make a dumb mistake that may cost them their life. It is unfair to blame the cop in this situation. Dude didn't plan on getting shot but it happened and he was in the wrong, don't blame the cop. That's unfair. It was not the fault of the cop or the kid, but he played on the wrong side at the wrong time with the wrong friends. Don't over think this one and don't blame the cops.

Knowing how many anarchist libs here are always excusing criminal behavior, I realize what a favor the cop did us by removing garbage from the gene pool.

Officer Carl Frederick Stowe, Jr. did absolutely nothing wrong. Except, he left the restaurant in pursuit, a direct violation of his contract with IHOP. And he put himself in harm's way, then retreated and shot into the SIDE of the car.

Because Stowe did nothing wrong, the city was able to settle with the estate of the dead Eagle Scout for only $1,100,000.00. As Alexandria is self-insured, the money came from the taxpayers.

But it gets better. Alexandria then sued the IHOP! They lost, of course, and appealed to the State Supreme Court, where they lost again. The legal fees paid by the city were well in excess of the $1,100,000 paid to the kid's estate.

The decision by the Virginia Supreme Court is almost humorous in how they slapped down Alexandria. Read it here:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/va-supreme-court/1522025.html

Try to run over a cop, you're likely to get shot.

Fuck. You morons are fucking dense.

You're a moonlighting Alexandria Police Officer working at an IHOP. Somebody comes in and tries to rob the place yeah...you smoke THAT person. Empty the clip on THAT person. Somebody skips out on a check and you can't restrain them prior to reaching their vehicle yeah...you take down the plates and call your detective buddy that's alwyas cracking your nuts for repeatedly failing the sergeant's exam and tell him you've got an easy collar for him to follow up on...


Hey, this is great! Excellent details, with that whole failed Sergeant's exam thing. This could be the beginning of a movie, like Copland...a small case gets big FAST

I ate at IHOP the other day. I paid my bill, gave the waitress a nice tip, and walked out to my car. There was no police bothering me, no one shot at me.
Right or wrong, justified or not, don't get involved with people with guns. It's easy enough.
You wouldn't try to steal a burrito from a MS-13 member would you? What do you think would happen?
From all indications, the idiot who got himself killed wasn't starving, did not need to steal a meal. A lot of places force the waitress to pay when somebody skips out on a meal. I don't imagine waitresses are rolling in the dough working at IHOP.
So, at everybody elses expense, this douche decides to rip off a meal that he doesn't even have to steal. He just did it to be a prick. And then, when he see's a cop trying to confront him, he aims his car at the cop.
This kid posed a danger, and was likely to hurt someone sooner or later.
Now he's dead, and fuck him anyway. People are trying to make a living , and this douche feels he has the right to take what he wants, even if he doesn't need it.
I'm glad he's dead. One less asshole to possibly get me hurt someday because of his sub human behavior.

It wasn't their faults!!!!!
Attachments:

If anyone feels like this kid deserved to die for Dining and Dashing on a $26 dollar tab at IHOP than I feel sorry for you. The actions that led to his death are all on the over zealous cop, who violated his contract (broke the rules, kinda like running out on a $26 tab) and put himself in a situation that allowed him to shot and kill this kid (who was an Eagle Scout, if you know anything about that, it means he was a good kid who had done some great things).

If you think I am wrong then why did Alexandria pay the family $1.1 million in a settlement instead of going to Court. Why did the City get slapped down when they tried to sue the IHOP, because the Cop was WRONG!!! The Cop was wrong and this kid payed with his life.

Yes and 1.1 million bucks made eveverything right again, hope you enjoy the money

August West Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LakeRoyal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The officer in the IHOP shooting is now a local
> > home improvement contractor. FCPD has a warrant
> > out on him in relation to the "illegals for
> hire"
> > scheme where the illegals were being killed at
> the
> > end of the job in order that the contractor
> could
> > avoid paying them. Several bodies were found in
> > the dumpster of the IHOP on the night of the
> > shooting.
>
> Damn you. ^^^ made me LOL which means I spend too
> much time reading this stupid board.

We must remain ever vigilant, Mr. West...

4real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If anyone feels like this kid deserved to die for
> Dining and Dashing on a $26 dollar tab at IHOP
> than I feel sorry for you. The actions that led
> to his death are all on the over zealous cop, who
> violated his contract (broke the rules, kinda like
> running out on a $26 tab) and put himself in a
> situation that allowed him to shot and kill this
> kid (who was an Eagle Scout, if you know anything
> about that, it means he was a good kid who had
> done some great things).
>
> If you think I am wrong then why did Alexandria
> pay the family $1.1 million in a settlement
> instead of going to Court. Why did the City get
> slapped down when they tried to sue the IHOP,
> because the Cop was WRONG!!! The Cop was wrong
> and this kid payed with his life.

Why didn't he get charged with any crimes then? If you want anyone to take you seriously, learn to stop typing like a retard. There's a website called google, use it and you'll see why they failed to sue IHOP. You mean do great things like hang out with losers and then drive recklessly towards a cop? that's setting the bar high.

"broke the rules, kinda like running out on a $26 tab" lol, why is it so hard for you to realize these scumbags put themselves in the position for one of them to get shot. Too bad one of those bullets didn't hit you.

j cochran Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes and 1.1 million bucks made eveverything right
> again, hope you enjoy the money

Considering the quality of the dead kid, they were overpaid.

Officer found to be NOT CRIMINALLY LIABLE!

BOOYA BITCHES!


"Alexandria Commonwealth's Attorney S. Randolph Sengel produced the 54-page report examining every aspect of the shooting, and he determined that Officer Stowe was not criminally liable. He said that Stowe began firing as the Jeep sped at him and that he could not have stopped firing in the split second that the Jeep narrowly missed him."

BEH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I ate at IHOP the other day. I paid my bill, gave
> the waitress a nice tip, and walked out to my car.
> There was no police bothering me, no one shot at
> me.
> Right or wrong, justified or not, don't get
> involved with people with guns. It's easy enough.
>
> You wouldn't try to steal a burrito from a MS-13
> member would you? What do you think would happen?
>
> From all indications, the idiot who got himself
> killed wasn't starving, did not need to steal a
> meal. A lot of places force the waitress to pay
> when somebody skips out on a meal. I don't imagine
> waitresses are rolling in the dough working at
> IHOP.
> So, at everybody elses expense, this douche
> decides to rip off a meal that he doesn't even
> have to steal. He just did it to be a prick. And
> then, when he see's a cop trying to confront him,
> he aims his car at the cop.
> This kid posed a danger, and was likely to hurt
> someone sooner or later.
> Now he's dead, and fuck him anyway. People are
> trying to make a living , and this douche feels he
> has the right to take what he wants, even if he
> doesn't need it.
> I'm glad he's dead. One less asshole to possibly
> get me hurt someday because of his sub human
> behavior.

AMEN!

OMG HIGLANDER!!!!!!!!!

+1 +1 +1

now HERE is a priceless quote: "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer Stowe had followed his police department's rules," the family announced in a statement through their attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker has announced a new policy...we hope this prevents other needless deaths."

And I thought the parents of that kid who got drunk on 4Loko and laid down on Pleasant Valley...........I thought they were the most disconnected parents in the world..............but sheesh! This twip's parents now they REALLY take the cake.

Um, the cops arent responsible for yr kids dumb-ass actions, yo. Normal kids STOP THEIR FUCKING CAR when a Badge-Man or Lady steps out in front of it..........

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> now HERE is a priceless quote: "Aaron Brown would
> not have died if Officer Stowe had followed his
> police department's rules," the family announced
> in a statement through their attorney. "We are
> also pleased that Chief Baker has announced a new
> policy...we hope this prevents other needless
> deaths."
>
> And I thought the parents of that kid who got
> drunk on 4Loko and laid down on Pleasant
> Valley...........I thought they were the most
> disconnected parents in the world..............but
> sheesh! This twip's parents now they REALLY take
> the cake.
>
> Um, the cops arent responsible for yr kids
> dumb-ass actions, yo. Normal kids STOP THEIR
> FUCKING CAR when a Badge-Man or Lady steps out in
> front of it..........



I couldn't agree more.

What the heck did they think was going to happen when they tried to run over a cop?

I wasnt a big fan of that Arron Brown fellow anyways.. Still feel bad for his family though.

 

I've eaten at IHOP at least a dozen times. Always paid my bill, never been shot. Works for me. Bottom line - if you're going to be an asshole, don't blame the cops for the outcome.

That's the fucking problem with people always wanting push the blame on someone else.....I raised a good kid he was a eagle scout....fuck you!! Obey the law and would never have happened.

Hell yeah brother Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's the fucking problem with people always
> wanting push the blame on someone else.....I
> raised a good kid he was a eagle scout....fuck
> you!! Obey the law and would never have happened.


Agreed. On top of all that, the kid WASN'T an Eagle Scout because he automatically lost that title when he decided to steal from some poor working-class stiff, busting hump to earn a meager paycheck at IHOP. The FIRST duty of an Eagle Scout is listed as this.

"EAGLE SCOUT #1: The first responsibility of an Eagle Scout is to live with honor, which to an Eagle is sacred. Honor is the foundation of character : it is what a person really is, down inside, not what someone may think he is. An Eagle will live so as to reflect credit upon his home, church, school, friends, upon Scouting, and upon himself. May your Eagle badge always remind you to live with honor."

Additionally, the Scouting law is "A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent." Now tell me what part of this guy's behavior is reflected in ANY part of that creed.

The Boy Scout organization ALSO says "The Eagle rank is the highest and most coveted award in all of Scouting, and it is the last major step in the advancement program. If at this point, Scouting has not achieved its purpose of building character, then it probably never shall.".............. I think that stealing, running, and trying to drive over a Police Officer prove it. This kid was NOT an Eagle Scout.

Geez I wonder what you cowboys think about the Sunday school teacher that got blasted by a cop in Culpeper a couple of weeks ago.

yeehaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geez I wonder what you cowboys think about the
> Sunday school teacher that got blasted by a cop in
> Culpeper a couple of weeks ago.

Depends on what the sunday school teacher did. Was he a thief that tried to run over a cop like the eagle scout?

yeehaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geez I wonder what you cowboys think about the
> Sunday school teacher that got blasted by a cop in
> Culpeper a couple of weeks ago.


Oh wait, that's the woman that took off from a traffic stop after rolling up her window on the Cop's arm and then began dragging the Police Officer alongside her vehicle? Yeah, she deserved to get her ass shot too.

I've never dragged a Cop, run over a Cop, or TRIED to run over a Cop, and a Cop has never SHOT ME. Coincidence? Probably not.

@yeehaw - we "Cowboys" dont people making stupid choices putting others at risk of DEATH with the vehicles they control, can y'dig?

@Taylor - yeah, it's not really brain surgery, is it?

Does anybody know what this kid's last meal was? I'm wondering what was at IHOP that was so worth a bullet to him...............

keep in mind if the kid is willing to have run down the cop, he SURE AS FUCK would have been willing to run down any of the billion pedestrians that walk around that chunk of the world so who knows how many lives that cop saved by killing a fucking psychopath behind the wheel of a Jeep. Tell me I'm wrong, yo...............

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> keep in mind if the kid is willing to have run
> down the cop, he SURE AS FUCK would have been
> willing to run down any of the billion pedestrians
> that walk around that chunk of the world so who
> knows how many lives that cop saved by killing a
> fucking psychopath behind the wheel of a Jeep.
> Tell me I'm wrong, yo...............

You're wrong, yo...

well duh
but I'm also alive and able to buy me some French Toast LoLz

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> keep in mind if the kid is willing to have run
> down the cop, he SURE AS FUCK would have been
> willing to run down any of the billion pedestrians
> that walk around that chunk of the world so who
> knows how many lives that cop saved by killing a
> fucking psychopath behind the wheel of a Jeep.
> Tell me I'm wrong, yo...............

You are wrong.

You are so clueless about the whole incident, Brown wasn't even driving the vehicle. The cop was in so much "danger" from getting run over he shot into the SIDE of the PASSING vehicle.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> You are so clueless about the whole incident,
> Brown wasn't even driving the vehicle. The cop
> was in so much "danger" from getting run over he
> shot into the SIDE of the PASSING vehicle.

AND, as part of the settlement, Alexandria paid the family over a million dollars and rewrote their rules so that cops cannot pursue dine-and-dash suspects or use deadly force to try to stop them.

Officer Carl Frederick Stowe, Jr, is no longer a member of the law enforcement community.

The driver and other passengers in the car continued on with their lives, with some using the settlement money to attend college.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > keep in mind if the kid is willing to have run
> > down the cop, he SURE AS FUCK would have been
> > willing to run down any of the billion
> pedestrians
> > that walk around that chunk of the world so who
> > knows how many lives that cop saved by killing
> a
> > fucking psychopath behind the wheel of a Jeep.
> > Tell me I'm wrong, yo...............
>
> You are wrong.
>
> You are so clueless about the whole incident,
> Brown wasn't even driving the vehicle. The cop
> was in so much "danger" from getting run over he
> shot into the SIDE of the PASSING vehicle.

Gordon isn't wrong, he's completely right. And there's a 54 page, detailed study of the shooting that proves the Cop did nothing wrong. You can bitch all you want to but you're still going to have to think about it carefully next time you decide to steal something.

I also think its funny that you accuse Gordon of being "clueless" about the incident, like you actually know anything. Bottom line..... kid stole, kid was part of a group that drove AT a Cop. Kid got shot. That's all you really need to know.

Deeee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justsayin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> The driver and other passengers in the car
> continued on with their lives, with some using the
> settlement money to attend college.



You forgot to add, "And Aaron Brown NEVER stole anything again.", which is the best part of the outcome.

The FBI investigated the shooting and cleared the officer.

I believe the officer was suspended for two weeks. That's all that happened to him.

 

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justsayin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> > who knows how many lives that cop saved by killing
> > a fucking psychopath behind the wheel of a Jeep.
>
> Gordon isn't wrong, he's completely right. And
> there's a 54 page, detailed study of the shooting

I know. I read it. Please tell me the page number of the report where, as Gordon says (and you agree by calling him completely right), Aaron Brown was the driver.


> I also think its funny that you accuse Gordon of
> being "clueless" about the incident, like you
> actually know anything.

I know what was in the report because I read it. And now I know you are clueless too. Still waiting on page number please?

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> I know what was in the report because I read it.
> And now I know you are clueless too. Still
> waiting on page number please?
>



I haven't read the report, (and I doubt that you have either), but no matter. You are attempting to focus in on the element of who was driving the car, which is not the part of Gordon's statement I was agreeing with. I was agreeing with the sentiment that the Cop was not in the wrong by shooting at a moving vehicle that was attempting to run him down.

By your reasoning, if 5 people were in a car and three of them started shooting at a Cop, if the Cop returned fire and hit one of the people who wasn't shooting at him, then the Cop is in the wrong. I disagree.

Brown wasn't driving and the cop wasn't aiming for Brown. He was attempting to hit the driver of the vehicle and the bullet hit Brown instead. Maybe some of you should refocus that anger you feel for the Officer over to the "friend" of Aaron's who GOT HIM SHOT by trying to run over a Police Officer, instead of being so proud and happy that he got his college tuition paid by Alexandria for getting his friend killed. No one here has even MENTIONED him, but it was directly his actions that got Aaron killed. The fault is his far more than it is the Cop's.

Steven Smith was driving.

But, ultimately, the fact of the matter is that the cop was cleared of any wrongdoing by the FBI.

They were committing a crime and the driver of the Jeep, Steven Smith, got his friend killed by trying to run a cop over.

Case closed.

 

Not to be confused with the other Steven Smith murderer mentioned on this website.. Two different Steve Smiths

 

And as I've said before, I feel bad for his family; he was an only child 'n all.. It was a senseless death, but no one is to blame but the parties engaged in the theft and the driver of the vehicle.

 

If a car is full of people and the driver attempts to run down a police officer, the only person who deserves to be shot and killed is the driver.

The opinions being expressed here are pathetic. The kids were shot because they didnt pay for their food they were shot at FOR TRYING TO RUN THE COP OVER. Had the kids just not paid and given up when the cop was there yes you could say it was a stupid mistake and move on. When one of them tries to kill the cop to cover it up its so far beyond a stupid mistake its not even funny. He made that choice and his friends death is on him. Instead of focusing on the fact that someone got shot because of an action that cost 26 dollars how about the fact that one of them decided to try and run a cop over to get away from a 26 dollar crime.

While its sad that the kid who was shot wasnt the driver he was an active participant and you risk having a tragic outcome when you decide to commit crimes.

The person who asked why the cop even cared is an idiot. They were breaking the law and committing a crime thats why he cared.

Whether or not he was suspended doesnt matter. We live in Nova where they will throw an officer under the bus to look good in the eyes of the community and everyone thinks they deserve special treatment. If he was suspended its more of a result of where he works instead of what he did. Now that cop also have to live with the fact that he was forced to shoot at teenagers because of that driver. That driver successfully ruined several lives that day over free pancakes

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The opinions being expressed here are pathetic.
> The kids were shot because they didnt pay for
> their food they were shot at FOR TRYING TO RUN THE
> COP OVER. Had the kids just not paid and given up
> when the cop was there yes you could say it was a
> stupid mistake and move on. When one of them
> tries to kill the cop to cover it up its so far
> beyond a stupid mistake its not even funny. He
> made that choice and his friends death is on him.
> Instead of focusing on the fact that someone got
> shot because of an action that cost 26 dollars how
> about the fact that one of them decided to try and
> run a cop over to get away from a 26 dollar crime.
>
>
> While its sad that the kid who was shot wasnt the
> driver he was an active participant and you risk
> having a tragic outcome when you decide to commit
> crimes.
>
> The person who asked why the cop even cared is an
> idiot. They were breaking the law and committing
> a crime thats why he cared.
>
> Whether or not he was suspended doesnt matter. We
> live in Nova where they will throw an officer
> under the bus to look good in the eyes of the
> community and everyone thinks they deserve special
> treatment. If he was suspended its more of a
> result of where he works instead of what he did.
> Now that cop also have to live with the fact that
> he was forced to shoot at teenagers because of
> that driver. That driver successfully ruined
> several lives that day over free pancakes


It seems so simple, doesn't it? Some people in this thread want to act like the Cop overheard the kids talking about running out, so he walked over to the table and shot the kid in the head. They IGNORE the fact that the $26 tab had nothing to do with it. It was the attempt to run over a Cop that got one of them shot.

Then I hear a lot of whining about, "The Cop should have gotten out of the way.", or, "Well, the Cop shouldn't have gotten in front of the car.". I hear all sorts of reasons why the Officer was at fault for being in front of the vehicle, and yet nothing about, "Well maybe the kids shouldn't have tried to steal something and then compounded the situation by trying to run down the Police Officer who was trying to stop them from getting away."

I'm always amazed by some people's deep and vast well-springs of sympathy and understanding for anyone who breaks the law and pays the price for it, coupled with a total hatred for anyone who tries to do the RIGHT THING by stopping a crime. It makes you wonder.

Did the cops break up the funeral procession for the kid?

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Taylor Wrote:
> It seems so simple, doesn't it? Some people in
> this thread want to act like the Cop overheard the
> kids talking about running out, so he walked over
> to the table and shot the kid in the head. They
> IGNORE the fact that the $26 tab had nothing to do
> with it. It was the attempt to run over a Cop that
> got one of them shot.
>
> Then I hear a lot of whining about, "The Cop
> should have gotten out of the way.", or, "Well,
> the Cop shouldn't have gotten in front of the
> car.". I hear all sorts of reasons why the Officer
> was at fault for being in front of the vehicle,
> and yet nothing about, "Well maybe the kids
> shouldn't have tried to steal something and then
> compounded the situation by trying to run down the
> Police Officer who was trying to stop them from
> getting away."
>
> I'm always amazed by some people's deep and vast
> well-springs of sympathy and understanding for
> anyone who breaks the law and pays the price for
> it, coupled with a total hatred for anyone who
> tries to do the RIGHT THING by stopping a crime.
> It makes you wonder.

My first guess is that a lot of people who are trying to blame the cop have been arrested themselves. As always theyre never guilty its always the cop making something up. The same people complaining that this happened would be the first ones to complain if the cop did nothing and they ran someone else over in the parking lot or caused an accident during their get away.

If the kid hadnt tried to run down a cop they would all still be alive today. If you dont want to get shot by cops dont engage in illegal activity and dont try and kill the police. You can probably attribute a lot of this sentiment to the erosion of morals going on in the country and the blame everyone else mentality instead of personal responsibility.

Its also a good point that people really do make it sound like he gunned them down in their booth while they were eating. He was there to do a job. He didnt show up saying I hope I get to shoot some teens tonight. The actions of those kids and especially the driver are what lead to the final outcome, not the cops

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the kid hadnt tried to run down a cop they
> would all still be alive today.

For the Nth time, the driver was not killed, a passenger was killed. The driver was already leaving the parking lot and the cop stepped in front of the vehicle.

pgens above didn't make up what he wrote... he was merely paraphrasing the police department in announcing the officer's suspension, the exact quote from the Alexandria Police (linked below in the WTOP link) was Stowe (the officer) "unreasonably placed himself in a position that allowed the situation to elevate to a level of high risk" when he stepped in front of the Jeep."

If anyone is really interested in the report, what happened, and consequences for the officer, you can read the below links. The misinformation in this thread is too thick to respond to or wade through. I have tried to correct some of it but the troll count is too high, and IQ average and literacy rate is too low. I can offer links to all the facts though.

Investigation: http://www3.alexandriava.gov/cattorney/stowe.pdf

Officer then suspended for violating policies involving stepping in front of moving vehicles:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/02/AR2007010200975.html

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=&sid=1021053


> The actions of those kids and especially the driver are what
> lead to the final outcome, not the cops

You are incorrect, policy said the officer should have let the SUV go and called in the plate. The kids would have been arrested at home, no one dead and no shots fired. The actions of the kids indeed initiated the incident, but the officer's response was incorrect and he received the max penalty short of firing the Alexandria police could give him. Those are the facts, sorry if you don't like them but read up on them if you need to. Or don't if you like uninformed opinion-spouting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 02:54PM by justsayin.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pathetic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the kid hadnt tried to run down a cop they
> > would all still be alive today.
>
> For the Nth time, the driver was not killed, a
> passenger was killed. The driver was already
> leaving the parking lot and the cop stepped in
> front of the vehicle.


Wow, "Pathetic" clearly states in his post, "While its sad that the kid who was shot wasnt the driver he was an active participant and you risk having a tragic outcome when you decide to commit crimes.", and then you go spouting off about, "For the Nth time! Blah, blah, blah."

The part that's the most embarrassing, (for you), is that you stoop to the predictable and pedantic name-calling about how other posters are "illiterate" and have "low IQ rates", (compared to yours, I'm sure). Then you go and prove that you have a complete inability to read and process a simple sentence like, "It's sad that the kid who was shot was NOT the driver." which is very clearly stated in his post. In fact, "Pathetic" even made that sentence its own paragraph separate from anything else just so as not to overly confuse the "low IQ, illiterate types" that might be reading it.

Despite all that, you managed to get it wrong and completely misunderstand what he was saying at the exact same time as you were challenging the intellect and literacy levels of the other posters.

You, my bright friend, just lost credibility as well as the right to call ANYONE ELSE'S intelligence into question.

Who got "Pw3nd!!1!" now, little bitch?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 03:20PM by Taylor.

taylor is such a goober, go try to read and learn. the crap you post earns you a fruppie "that's stupid". troll and gay, nice 4 edits of backpedaling lol you got owned

themoreyouknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taylor is such a goober, go try to read and learn.
> the crap you post earns you a fruppie "that's
> stupid". troll and gay, nice 4 edits of
> backpedaling lol you got owned


I edited four times because I noticed spelling and punctuation errors that I wanted to correct. (I generally proofread my work.)

After reading the quality of your post, I'm sure that's a problem that you don't really struggle with. I do find it amusing that someone with such a tenuous grasp on the English language, (grammar, punctuation, capitalization, etc.), is advising me to "read and learn".......... I will if you will.

P.S. We exist in a society today where your calling me a homosexual as the ULTIMATE insult is really more a reflection on you than it is on me.

Too bad they don't shoot first and ask question later for right wing stupidity.

birdy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too bad they don't shoot first and ask question
> later for right wing stupidity.


Thank you for that trenchant contribution to the discussion. In return, let me say, "Blah, blah, left-wing, blah, Liberal, blah, blah, blah, Democrat, blah, blah, blah, blah."

@Taylor - you gotta love it when you can break them back down to the 2nd grade LoLz:

Posted by: themoreyouknow ()
Date: February 25, 2012 09:22PM

"taylor is such a goober"

anywho, I'm really not that concerned about who was driving the car............EVERYBODY who was in that car CHOOSE to get into it AFTER committing a crime at that diner. The INTENT of EVERYBODY in that Jeep was to escape the crime scene. I know this as none of them were forced into that vehicle AFTER CHOOSING to commit a crime at that IHOP (i.e. leave without paying). Cop comes out to stop them, and the driver CHOOSES to try and kill the officer. Officer RIGHTFULLY shoots into Jeep, to try and stop someone who just tried to kill him. Cop can AND SHOULD do this because ANYBODY WHO WILL TRY AND KILL A POLICE OFFICER WILL MOST CERTAINLY TRY AND KILL YOU GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY if they feel the "need" or "want" to.

You tell me that the driver of that jeep would have stopped for me, my kids in the car if I was blocking the intersection there trying to get to KFC........... or maybe the light just changed, you're trying to get to the Richmond ramp and all of a sudden this kid's front fender has just pushed yr wife's head into yr lap all cause they didnt want to pay for their God D*mned French Toast?

Seriously.......................what the fuck, yo?

that "anywho" part wasnt four you, Taylor LoLz

@justsayin - yeah, cop could have done that but that decision could have cost other lives as well (see my 395 Southbound example above)


Bottom line, though......justice is served all around even though it's still a sad story.

I don't think shooting him was justified. Couldn't he have gotten the plates number and car description, and just fined the kid as appropriate for the the laws he broke?

I'm surprised how many people here blindly support the police. Having a badge doesn't mean everything you do is right. I say give the fucker life in prison.

Mumma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think shooting him was justified. Couldn't
> he have gotten the plates number and car
> description, and just fined the kid as appropriate
> for the the laws he broke?


NO according to gordon blvd above any suspect within shooting range of a police officer MUST be shot because they might go onto a highway and someone else may be injured JUSTICE SERVED

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pathetic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the kid hadnt tried to run down a cop they
> > would all still be alive today.
>
> For the Nth time, the driver was not killed, a
> passenger was killed. The driver was already
> leaving the parking lot and the cop stepped in
> front of the vehicle.
>
> pgens above didn't make up what he wrote... he was
> merely paraphrasing the police department in
> announcing the officer's suspension, the exact
> quote from the Alexandria Police (linked below in
> the WTOP link) was Stowe (the officer)
> "unreasonably placed himself in a position that
> allowed the situation to elevate to a level of
> high risk" when he stepped in front of the Jeep."
>
> If anyone is really interested in the report, what
> happened, and consequences for the officer, you
> can read the below links. The misinformation in
> this thread is too thick to respond to or wade
> through. I have tried to correct some of it but
> the troll count is too high, and IQ average and
> literacy rate is too low. I can offer links to
> all the facts though.
>
> Investigation:
> http://www3.alexandriava.gov/cattorney/stowe.pdf
>
> Officer then suspended for violating policies
> involving stepping in front of moving vehicles:
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2007/01/02/AR2007010200975.html
>
> http://www.wtop.com/?nid=&sid=1021053
>
>
> > The actions of those kids and especially the
> driver are what
> > lead to the final outcome, not the cops
>
> You are incorrect, policy said the officer should
> have let the SUV go and called in the plate. The
> kids would have been arrested at home, no one dead
> and no shots fired. The actions of the kids
> indeed initiated the incident, but the officer's
> response was incorrect and he received the max
> penalty short of firing the Alexandria police
> could give him. Those are the facts, sorry if you
> don't like them but read up on them if you need
> to. Or don't if you like uninformed
> opinion-spouting.


THANK YOU FOR THE LINKS ABOVE!!! If anyone really wants to understand the entire situation, which is why I started the thread, it is all right there in these links. THE REAL STORY AND COMPLETE INVESTIGATION RESULTS

The investigation reveals the cop over stepped his authority when he left the IHOP to "stop" the kids. His contract with IHOP states he is not to pursue these kids. The most fucked up thing is the City of Alexandria tried to sue IHOP for the money they paid the Browns for the cops mistake. As a few people have posted .... All the cop needed to do was get the Jeeps license plate and call it in. He was the one who broke the rules of his contract when he pursued the kids and created the situation that resulted in Aaron Brown being shot 2 times and killed in the back seat of the Jeep. That is why the City of Alexandria paid the Browns $1.1 million in a settlement instead of going to court and having everything exposed. These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

$1.1 million buys a lot of pancakes.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pathetic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The opinions being expressed here are pathetic.
>
> > The kids were shot because they didnt pay for
> > their food they were shot at FOR TRYING TO RUN
> THE
> > COP OVER. Had the kids just not paid and given
> up
> > when the cop was there yes you could say it was
> a
> > stupid mistake and move on. When one of them
> > tries to kill the cop to cover it up its so far
> > beyond a stupid mistake its not even funny. He
> > made that choice and his friends death is on
> him.
> > Instead of focusing on the fact that someone
> got
> > shot because of an action that cost 26 dollars
> how
> > about the fact that one of them decided to try
> and
> > run a cop over to get away from a 26 dollar
> crime.
> >
> >
> > While its sad that the kid who was shot wasnt
> the
> > driver he was an active participant and you
> risk
> > having a tragic outcome when you decide to
> commit
> > crimes.
> >
> > The person who asked why the cop even cared is
> an
> > idiot. They were breaking the law and
> committing
> > a crime thats why he cared.
> >
> > Whether or not he was suspended doesnt matter.
> We
> > live in Nova where they will throw an officer
> > under the bus to look good in the eyes of the
> > community and everyone thinks they deserve
> special
> > treatment. If he was suspended its more of a
> > result of where he works instead of what he did.
>
> > Now that cop also have to live with the fact
> that
> > he was forced to shoot at teenagers because of
> > that driver. That driver successfully ruined
> > several lives that day over free pancakes
>
>
> It seems so simple, doesn't it? Some people in
> this thread want to act like the Cop overheard the
> kids talking about running out, so he walked over
> to the table and shot the kid in the head. They
> IGNORE the fact that the $26 tab had nothing to do
> with it. It was the attempt to run over a Cop that
> got one of them shot.
>
> Then I hear a lot of whining about, "The Cop
> should have gotten out of the way.", or, "Well,
> the Cop shouldn't have gotten in front of the
> car.". I hear all sorts of reasons why the Officer
> was at fault for being in front of the vehicle,
> and yet nothing about, "Well maybe the kids
> shouldn't have tried to steal something and then
> compounded the situation by trying to run down the
> Police Officer who was trying to stop them from
> getting away."
>
> I'm always amazed by some people's deep and vast
> well-springs of sympathy and understanding for
> anyone who breaks the law and pays the price for
> it, coupled with a total hatred for anyone who
> tries to do the RIGHT THING by stopping a crime.
> It makes you wonder.

IT WAS A FUCKING DINE AND DASH 26 FUCKING DOLLARS!!!! You tell me how this justifies taking a young person's life?! Cop claims the kids were trying to run him over? Why didn't he just shoot a round into the engine block or try to shoot one of tires out? Maybe if he laid off the doughnuts and attempted to work out at least once a week he wouldn't have made himself such an easy target. It really says something about Fairfax County when you have people getting shot by cops and most of time they don't even have weapons on them. I sincerely hope the cop lives with the fact that he killed a kid for the rest of his life and that every night when he goes to sleep he has night terrors about the kid's life he took away in cold blooded murder

Actually, the REAL story is that several of the kids who were in the car at the time of the shooting stated that the driver intentionally swerved at the Officer. One female passenger stated to the Police that she actually shouted out, "Oh my God, you are going to KILL this Cop. STOP!" Then after a few days to "confer" amongst themselves, they ALL changed their stories. Among the more ludicrous claims they now stated that the Officer was between 100-150 feet away when he began shooting at them. Ballistics evidence shows that, depending on the shot, they were all fired within 9-30 feet of the vehicle. There were scorch marks on the asphalt and matching burns on the tires showing that the driver had accelerated at a rapid rate of speed and "squealed" the tires while headed toward the Officer. Numerous Eye-Witnesses at the scene corroborated the Police Officer's version of events, including a group that had JUST BEEN STOPPED by the same Officer for trying to skip out on their bill. None of them were shot, (it might have had something to do with not trying to kill the Officer).

Witnesses inside the restaurant overheard the group plotting to run out on their bill. Lastly, the kid who was shot, (Aaron Brown), was found to have had a Blood Alcohol Level of .13 as well as marijuana in his system at the time of the incident, (nice "Eagle Scout" behavior, btw). So if HE was pushing a .13 B.A.C., I wonder what the driver of the car had for a B.A.C.? Marijuana and rolling papers were found in the car, along with numerous empty and half-empty alcohol containers.

After reading the report, I'm EVEN MORE SURE that the Officer was the "good guy" in this situation. These kids ADMITTED that they thought the driver was trying to hit the Officer. Then later, they concoct an outlandish story to try to make the Officer look bad.

They were drunk. They were high. They stole and ran. They tried to run over a Police Officer who was trying to apprehend them. One of them got shot...... ABSOLUTELY NO SYMPATHY. Punk asses were asking for it. Now you wanna cry because they got it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 10:25AM by Taylor.

rotors Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IT WAS A FUCKING DINE AND DASH 26 FUCKING
> DOLLARS!!!!

The driver should be charged with felony murder. Plain and simple. The kid should have paid his bill. Plain and simple.

> You tell me how this justifies taking
> a young person's life?! Cop claims the kids were
> trying to run him over?

Did the driver stop?

> Why didn't he just shoot
> a round into the engine block

A had gun taking out an engine block? Seriously?

> or try to shoot one
> of tires out?

Yeah, a flat tire stops rolling.

> Maybe if he laid off the doughnuts

I think you are forgetting who had a hankering for the free breakfast food. Hint: he is taking a dirt nap now.

> and attempted to work out at least once a week he
> wouldn't have made himself such an easy target.

Yeah. Because he might be fat, it is OK for kids who committed a crime to run him over.

> It really says something about Fairfax County when
> you have people getting shot by cops and most of
> time they don't even have weapons on them.

Yeah, criminals should start carrying weapons. That will even the playing field. Best advice on how not to get shot, don't be a criminal. Oh, btw, in this situation the vehicle is a weapon.

> I sincerely hope the cop lives with the fact that he
> killed a kid for the rest of his life

Isn't that sort of a given?

> and that
> every night when he goes to sleep he has night
> terrors about the kid's life he took away in cold
> blooded murder

Eh, that is still a better situation than the pancake thief.

rotors Wrote:

> IT WAS A FUCKING DINE AND DASH 26 FUCKING
> DOLLARS!!!! You tell me how this justifies taking
> a young person's life?! Cop claims the kids were
> trying to run him over? Why didn't he just shoot
> a round into the engine block or try to shoot one
> of tires out? Maybe if he laid off the doughnuts
> and attempted to work out at least once a week he
> wouldn't have made himself such an easy target.
> It really says something about Fairfax County when
> you have people getting shot by cops and most of
> time they don't even have weapons on them. I
> sincerely hope the cop lives with the fact that he
> killed a kid for the rest of his life and that
> every night when he goes to sleep he has night
> terrors about the kid's life he took away in cold
> blooded murder.


Hmmmm, a couple of things about this. Firstly, it's not considered to be "cold blooded murder" when you defend yourself against someone who is trying to kill you. The official F.B.I. report found the Cop COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in his actions and in defense of his life.

Secondly, I have to question whether or not you have even a basic working knowledge of automobiles. You think the Cop should have put a shot through the radiator and then just hoped that the vehicle would overheat and break down before it hit him? No, wait! You think he could have aimed and shot out the tires of a rapidly moving vehicle at night, and the flat tire would have INSTANTLY brought the vehicle to a full stop and kept it from crushing him? That's some of the more retarded thought processing that I've seen here, (and on FFXU that's really saying something).

Thirdly, you think it was the Officers fault for being so fat from eating doughnuts that he made himself "too big of a target", and the fault lies not with the driver trying to hit him, but with the Cop for not working out enough that he would have made a slimmer profile, (therefore harder to run down with a car).

It's ironic because by posting such mind-numbingly moronic drivel, you're actually hurting the opinion that you're trying to defend.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 10:41AM by Taylor.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's some of the more
> retarded thought processing that I've seen here
> It's ironic because by posting such mind-numbingly
> moronic drivel, you're actually hurting the
> opinion that you're trying to defend.

The part that's the most embarrassing, (for you), is that you stoop to the predictable and pedantic name-calling about how other posters have "low IQ rates", (compared to yours, I'm sure). Then you go and prove that you have a complete inability to read and process a simple sentence like, "how this justifies taking a young person's life?" which is very clearly stated in his post.

Despite all that, you managed to get it wrong and completely misunderstand what he was saying at the exact same time as you were challenging the intellect and literacy levels of the other posters.

Thank you for that trenchant contribution to the discussion. In return, let me say, "Blah, blah, moronic, blah, retarded, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

Edited 46 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 11:11AM by TaylorReplay.

Dead men steal no pancakes

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rotors Wrote:
>
> > IT WAS A FUCKING DINE AND DASH 26 FUCKING
> > DOLLARS!!!! You tell me how this justifies
> taking
> > a young person's life?! Cop claims the kids
> were
> > trying to run him over? Why didn't he just
> shoot
> > a round into the engine block or try to shoot
> one
> > of tires out? Maybe if he laid off the
> doughnuts
> > and attempted to work out at least once a week
> he
> > wouldn't have made himself such an easy target.
>
> > It really says something about Fairfax County
> when
> > you have people getting shot by cops and most
> of
> > time they don't even have weapons on them. I
> > sincerely hope the cop lives with the fact that
> he
> > killed a kid for the rest of his life and that
> > every night when he goes to sleep he has night
> > terrors about the kid's life he took away in
> cold
> > blooded murder.
>
>
> Hmmmm, a couple of things about this. Firstly,
> it's not considered to be "cold blooded murder"
> when you defend yourself against someone who is
> trying to kill you. The official F.B.I. report
> found the Cop COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in his actions
> and in defense of his life.
>
> Secondly, I have to question whether or not you
> have even a basic working knowledge of
> automobiles. You think the Cop should have put a
> shot through the radiator and then just hoped that
> the vehicle would overheat and break down before
> it hit him? No, wait! You think he could have
> aimed and shot out the tires of a rapidly moving
> vehicle at night, and the flat tire would have
> INSTANTLY brought the vehicle to a full stop and
> kept it from crushing him? That's some of the more
> retarded thought processing that I've seen here,
> (and on FFXU that's really saying something).
>
> Thirdly, you think it was the Officers fault for
> being so fat from eating doughnuts that he made
> himself "too big of a target", and the fault lies
> not with the driver trying to hit him, but with
> the Cop for not working out enough that he would
> have made a slimmer profile, (therefore harder to
> run down with a car).
>
> It's ironic because by posting such mind-numbingly
> moronic drivel, you're actually hurting the
> opinion that you're trying to defend.

So? Are you telling me the cop couldn't have gotten out of the way when the car was driving towards him? I have yet to hear what justifies the cop shooting them from the rear? Why didn't he just shoot when the car was speeding towards him? Gee, people must be morons if they can't see the justice in that, right? Classic Fairfax County Police defense, shoot someone when their back is turned. So you honestly feel that our police officers should be too fat? The fact that they shouldn't even maintain some level of physical fitness, wow don't I feel really safe now. I sleep so much better knowing that young dine and dash offenders are being shot, really tackling our crime problem here in Fairfax. Robocop watch out now! As for shooting the tires, a car with no tires can still drive but it will drive slower. Maybe not slow enough for the fat ass out of shape cop to catch up with the driver which is why he shot him, but slower. Is this your definition of crime or criminals for that matter? If you want to take about morons look in the mirror you fucking douchebag, haha. Anyways I got to get back to CNN a breaking story involving 3 teens who skipped out on a Denny's lunch bill is developing. They sent out a nationwide APB and have detectives working in shifts to try and break the case, crime just went up 1000% how will we survive. Better get to the gun store before it's too late and build that underground shelter

It happened in Alexandria City and an Alexandria City cop was involved you ranting moron.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again and again, the officer acted negligently due to the fact that instead of aiming for the driver, he choose to endanger the passengers by discharging his weapon into the side of the vehicle when he did not have a clear shot for the driver. He was trained to disable the driver, not shoot up the whole car. The driver should've been the one killed, not the eagle scout sitting in the back you complete fucking morons. Its also interesting that instead of acknowledging the cop acted inappropriately in that situation many on here are placing the blame in the kid who was killed, maybe its just too hard for them to grasp the fact the some of our law enforcement officers are capable of serious, deadly mistakes like this one.

very well said. I also stand by my belief that a requirement to become a police officer should be active or reserve duty military experience. Many of the police officers who happen to be military veterans perform their duties at a higher level compared to those without any experience. Had the officer been better trained this mistake could have been avoided. However I don't feel that anyone should have been shot in this situation. Whether or not the driver intentionally tried to run over the police officer will never be known.

TaylorReplay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's some of the more
> > retarded thought processing that I've seen here
> > It's ironic because by posting such
> mind-numbingly
> > moronic drivel, you're actually hurting the
> > opinion that you're trying to defend.
>
> The part that's the most embarrassing, (for you),
> is that you stoop to the predictable and pedantic
> name-calling about how other posters have "low IQ
> rates", (compared to yours, I'm sure). Then you go
> and prove that you have a complete inability to
> read and process a simple sentence like, "how this
> justifies taking a young person's life?" which is
> very clearly stated in his post.
>
> Despite all that, you managed to get it wrong and
> completely misunderstand what he was saying at the
> exact same time as you were challenging the
> intellect and literacy levels of the other
> posters.
>
> Thank you for that trenchant contribution to the
> discussion. In return, let me say, "Blah, blah,
> moronic, blah, retarded, blah, blah, blah, blah,
> blah, blah."
>
> Edited 46 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 11:11AM
> by TaylorReplay.

Lol, struck a nerve, did I.

rotors Wrote:

> IT WAS A FUCKING DINE AND DASH 26 FUCKING
> DOLLARS!!!! You tell me how this justifies taking
> a young person's life?! Cop claims the kids were
> trying to run him over? Why didn't he just shoot
> a round into the engine block or try to shoot one
> of tires out? Maybe if he laid off the doughnuts
> and attempted to work out at least once a week he
> wouldn't have made himself such an easy target.
> It really says something about Fairfax County when
> you have people getting shot by cops and most of
> time they don't even have weapons on them. I
> sincerely hope the cop lives with the fact that he
> killed a kid for the rest of his life and that
> every night when he goes to sleep he has night
> terrors about the kid's life he took away in cold
> blooded murder


This isnt hollywood and he doesnt carry a barret 50 cal. Yea a 40 cal glock round is going to stop a car shooting its engine block you cant be serious. Shoot the tires and even better idea so then the car can go out of control flip over kill everyone inside and maybe if theyre lucky take out some other people too. Youve watched far to many movies or tv cop shows

The Real Facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've said it once, and I'll say it again and
> again, the officer acted negligently due to the
> fact that instead of aiming for the driver, he
> choose to endanger the passengers by discharging
> his weapon into the side of the vehicle when he
> did not have a clear shot for the driver. He was
> trained to disable the driver, not shoot up the
> whole car. The driver should've been the one
> killed, not the eagle scout sitting in the back
> you complete fucking morons. Its also interesting
> that instead of acknowledging the cop acted
> inappropriately in that situation many on here are
> placing the blame in the kid who was killed, maybe
> its just too hard for them to grasp the fact the
> some of our law enforcement officers are capable
> of serious, deadly mistakes like this one.


The kid who was killed does get some of the blame for going along with everything that happened so you might want to lay off the eagle scout part when he had just stolen from a place. That said as Ive said before the person who is the most responsible is the driver. The kids death is on the driver. Had he not try to run down a cop everyone in that situation would still be alive today.

Agreed.

The "Eagle Scout", (as every one seems to think is an appropriate defense for his actions), had a B.A.C. of .13, (despite being underage), and was high on marijuana at the time of the incident. Couple that with his attempt to steal and I think you can lay off the whole, "But he was an Eagle Scout!", bit.

>> Edited 46 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 11:11AM by TaylorReplay.

seriously? 46 edits?

@Taylor: so was he like trying to get his Thug Badge or something? :)

For Real (on page 1) has all the facts of the case. Cop did overstep authority of the contract in question. HOWEVER the cop DID NOT commit a ILLEGAL ACTION by shooting into that jeep. The major difference is basically criminal/civil court.

Either way, the kids in that jeep could have given a FUCK about me or my safety - cause if they would be WILLING to run down a cop, they be WILLING to run me down. Some lady and her kid got killed by a car just a few weeks ago near there, didnt they? Something like that happened around that spot.........and THAT driver of that killing was drunk too I think.........so yeah, careless drivers KILL around that area and those kids in that jeep would have just as well killed someone as they would have willingly killed that cop had he not gotten out the way while trying to get out of paying for some dammed steak and eggs!?!?!?! Fuck'em.

TaylorReplayDummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Edited 46 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012
> 11:11AM by TaylorReplay.
>
> seriously? 46 edits?


I think that was part of the joke, as anon posters can't edit posts. Taylor likes to click before she knows the extent of the errors in her ramblings and the re-reads cause many edits. I susepct in real life the talking toggle switch is always on "send" and very little on "receive".

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cop did overstep authority of the contract
> in question.

You are suggesting this was a hit? That is new info, you should probably contact the police if there is evidence of that.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The kid who was killed does get some of the blame
> for going along with everything that happened so
> you might want to lay off the eagle scout part
> when he had just stolen from a place. That said
> as Ive said before the person who is the most
> responsible is the driver. The kids death is on
> the driver. Had he not try to run down a cop
> everyone in that situation would still be alive
> today.

Ah, a revisionist. He dine and dashed from an IHOP, so his Eagle scout rank is automatcially revoked? He was an Eagle scout before he went into the IHOP, he was one during, but as soon as he walked out he's no longer an Eagle scout? I don't recall the BSA posthumously retracting his Eagle ranking, so I think YOU should stop trying to change what the facts are in this situation. The fact is he was a good kid who made a dumb mistake. Does that mean he deserved to be shot? No. Does that mean that he AND the cop are not responsible for their actions? No.

Now the way I see it, both made a mistake. The boys made a mistake by not paying their bill. While criminal in nature, it's a relatively harmless action that no one directly died from. The officer made a mistake by discharging his weapon at the vehicle and not holding his fire until he had a clear shot on the driver. Unfortunately, someone died as a direct result of his mistake.

While it's debatable that the driver of the vehicle's intentions were to run over the cop, it still is considered assault with a deadly weapon. In that situation, an LEO is trained to disable the driver without harming bystanders or other occupants of the vehicle unless they are also threatening life and limb. The boy in backseat was not threatening anyone. Even more damning is the fact that the fatal shot went into the side of the vehicle, meaning that the vehicle was partially past the officer, but he continued to discharge his weapon anyway.

In summary, the officer continued to fire his weapon after the driver passed him which directly led to the death of a young man. I would classify that as reckless weapons discharge, at worst negligent manslaughter... which if you ask me is a hell of a lot worse than running out on your bill.

BTW, making the server pay for people who skip out on the bill is iagainst a number of labor regulations, and terrible way to justify the killing of another person.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed.
>
> The "Eagle Scout", (as every one seems to think is
> an appropriate defense for his actions), had a
> B.A.C. of .13, (despite being underage), and was
> high on marijuana at the time of the incident.
> Couple that with his attempt to steal and I think
> you can lay off the whole, "But he was an Eagle
> Scout!", bit.

Look I don't know what third world Sharia law country you're from but here in America stealing isn't a crime punishable by death. Cry all you want that "they were trying to hit the cop," that's still no excuse to shoot someone over fucking pancakes. You seriously got a couple of screws loose if you think the cop made the right decision to shoot a kid over pancakes. Either you're seriously fucked in the head or a good troll

sippy_cup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agreed.
> >
> > The "Eagle Scout", (as every one seems to think
> is
> > an appropriate defense for his actions), had a
> > B.A.C. of .13, (despite being underage), and
> was
> > high on marijuana at the time of the incident.
> > Couple that with his attempt to steal and I
> think
> > you can lay off the whole, "But he was an Eagle
> > Scout!", bit.
>
> Look I don't know what third world Sharia law
> country you're from but here in America stealing
> isn't a crime punishable by death. Cry all you
> want that "they were trying to hit the cop,"
> that's still no excuse to shoot someone over
> fucking pancakes. You seriously got a couple of
> screws loose if you think the cop made the right
> decision to shoot a kid over pancakes. Either
> you're seriously fucked in the head or a good
> troll


No matter what you stole or if you didn't steal, there is no excuse to attempt to run over anyone.

Troll is as troll does, troll.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cop did overstep authority of the contract
> > in question.
>
> You are suggesting this was a hit? That is new
> info, you should probably contact the police if
> there is evidence of that.


hardy har har :)

-------------------------------------------------------
> The Real Facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've said it once, and I'll say it again and
> > again, the officer acted negligently due to the
> > fact that instead of aiming for the driver, he
> > choose to endanger the passengers by
> discharging
> > his weapon into the side of the vehicle when he
> > did not have a clear shot for the driver. He
> was
> > trained to disable the driver, not shoot up the
> > whole car. The driver should've been the one
> > killed, not the eagle scout sitting in the back
> > you complete fucking morons.

OK, dipshit, you go stand in the road while someone tries to run you down with a 2 ton car, and we'll grade you on your perfect marksmanship. Anyone sitting in a car that is a) driven by a drunk driver, b) fleeing the scene of a crime, and c) attempting to run down a cop, is running the risk of something like this happening. That's why you try monitor and control who your kid associates with, where he/she goes, etc. It's sad, tragic, etc, but it sure as hell is not the cop's fault.

@trolloff - apparently, you can if yr an Eagle Scout...........

oh puh-lease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, dipshit, you go stand in the road while
> someone tries to run you down with a 2 ton car,
> and we'll grade you on your perfect marksmanship.
> Anyone sitting in a car that is a) driven by a
> drunk driver, b) fleeing the scene of a crime, and
> c) attempting to run down a cop, is running the
> risk of something like this happening. That's why
> you try monitor and control who your kid
> associates with, where he/she goes, etc. It's
> sad, tragic, etc, but it sure as hell is not the
> cop's fault.

If he didn't have a clear shot, he shouldn't have taken it. THAT is what he is trained to do. I'm not a trained LEO so I probably would've killed everyone in the parking lot. Just because I can't do something, doesn't mean that I won't hold people who are trained (and paid by taxpayers like myself) to think clearly, remain calm and accurate in situations like these to a higher standard than myself.

The Real Facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, a revisionist. He dine and dashed from an
> IHOP, so his Eagle scout rank is automatcially
> revoked? He was an Eagle scout before he went into
> the IHOP, he was one during, but as soon as he
> walked out he's no longer an Eagle scout? I don't
> recall the BSA posthumously retracting his Eagle
> ranking, so I think YOU should stop trying to
> change what the facts are in this situation. The
> fact is he was a good kid who made a dumb mistake.
> Does that mean he deserved to be shot? No. Does
> that mean that he AND the cop are not responsible
> for their actions? No.
>
> Now the way I see it, both made a mistake. The
> boys made a mistake by not paying their bill.
> While criminal in nature, it's a relatively
> harmless action that no one directly died from.
> The officer made a mistake by discharging his
> weapon at the vehicle and not holding his fire
> until he had a clear shot on the driver.
> Unfortunately, someone died as a direct result of
> his mistake.
>
> While it's debatable that the driver of the
> vehicle's intentions were to run over the cop, it
> still is considered assault with a deadly weapon.
> In that situation, an LEO is trained to disable
> the driver without harming bystanders or other
> occupants of the vehicle unless they are also
> threatening life and limb. The boy in backseat was
> not threatening anyone. Even more damning is the
> fact that the fatal shot went into the side of the
> vehicle, meaning that the vehicle was partially
> past the officer, but he continued to discharge
> his weapon anyway.
>
> In summary, the officer continued to fire his
> weapon after the driver passed him which directly
> led to the death of a young man. I would classify
> that as reckless weapons discharge, at worst
> negligent manslaughter... which if you ask me is a
> hell of a lot worse than running out on your
> bill.
>
> BTW, making the server pay for people who skip out
> on the bill is iagainst a number of labor
> regulations, and terrible way to justify the
> killing of another person.


No he is still an eagle scout im sure but youre saying it trying to make it sound like he was someone who could have never done anything wrong and he was gunned down in his booth in a cold blooded murder. Whether or not he was am eagle scout has nothing to do with the actions that led up to this event.

Youre missing the entire point here and living in some fantasy cop world of tv dramas. If you try and run a cop over with a car youre car is going to get shot at. Is it unfortunate that the shots hit the kid in the back seat yes, is it anyone but the kids fault who were in the car, and more specifically the driver no. The driver was absolutely a threat to life and limb if hes gunning his car at a cop. He was determined to get away no matter who was in the way. It was a stupid mistake up until the point where the driver decided to try and kill a cop, then it becomes a very serious issue.

That driver was a threat to everyone in the community that night and he got his friend killed because he wanted free pancakes.

Im not sure what your point is about the watress having to pay Ive never even mentioned that, but they do have to pay for it illegal or not and you can get fried for anything so yes it could have potentially also cost her her job.

If a cop tells you to stop you stop. Instead of blaming the cop the blame should be on the kids for stealing, not listening to a cop, and then the driver trying to kill the cop. If anyone of those 3 things hadnt happened everyone of them would be alive today

The Real Facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh puh-lease Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK, dipshit, you go stand in the road while
> > someone tries to run you down with a 2 ton car,
> > and we'll grade you on your perfect
> marksmanship.
> > Anyone sitting in a car that is a) driven by a
> > drunk driver, b) fleeing the scene of a crime,
> and
> > c) attempting to run down a cop, is running the
> > risk of something like this happening. That's
> why
> > you try monitor and control who your kid
> > associates with, where he/she goes, etc. It's
> > sad, tragic, etc, but it sure as hell is not
> the
> > cop's fault.
>
> If he didn't have a clear shot, he shouldn't have
> taken it. THAT is what he is trained to do. I'm
> not a trained LEO so I probably would've killed
> everyone in the parking lot. Just because I can't
> do something, doesn't mean that I won't hold
> people who are trained (and paid by taxpayers like
> myself) to think clearly, remain calm and accurate
> in situations like these to a higher standard than
> myself.

Sorry, you didn't have a clear shot at the driver, so you should have let the car drive over you and possible kill you and then proceed onto the street with a drunk driver at the wheel? That's insane.

I'm not an apologist for the FCPD - I think what happened to that Sal Culosi was completely inexcusable - but in this case, it seems cut and dry. Fleeing criminal and associates trying to run down a cop on foot with a car. Hang out with criminals, bad things can happen. Even if you are an Eagle Scout.

sippy_cup Wrote:

> Look I don't know what third world Sharia law
> country you're from but here in America stealing
> isn't a crime punishable by death. Cry all you
> want that "they were trying to hit the cop,"
> that's still no excuse to shoot someone over
> fucking pancakes. You seriously got a couple of
> screws loose if you think the cop made the right
> decision to shoot a kid over pancakes. Either
> you're seriously fucked in the head or a good
> troll

They werent shot over pancakes, they were shot over trying to kill a cop. Its not that hard to understand.

troll-off Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sippy_cup Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Taylor Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > > The "Eagle Scout", (as every one seems to
> think
> > is
> > > an appropriate defense for his actions), had
> a
> > > B.A.C. of .13, (despite being underage), and
> > was
> > > high on marijuana at the time of the
> incident.
> > > Couple that with his attempt to steal and I
> > think
> > > you can lay off the whole, "But he was an
> Eagle
> > > Scout!", bit.
> >
> > Look I don't know what third world Sharia law
> > country you're from but here in America
> stealing
> > isn't a crime punishable by death. Cry all you
> > want that "they were trying to hit the cop,"
> > that's still no excuse to shoot someone over
> > fucking pancakes. You seriously got a couple
> of
> > screws loose if you think the cop made the
> right
> > decision to shoot a kid over pancakes. Either
> > you're seriously fucked in the head or a good
> > troll
>
>
> No matter what you stole or if you didn't steal,
> there is no excuse to attempt to run over anyone.
>
>
> Troll is as troll does, troll.

Bullshit that fucking cop was probably looking for any excuse to fire his gun so he could a real hero!

The Real Facts Wrote:

> If he didn't have a clear shot, he shouldn't have
> taken it. THAT is what he is trained to do. I'm
> not a trained LEO so I probably would've killed
> everyone in the parking lot. Just because I can't
> do something, doesn't mean that I won't hold
> people who are trained (and paid by taxpayers like
> myself) to think clearly, remain calm and accurate
> in situations like these to a higher standard than
> myself.

And this is what your problem is. You are talking from a point of no experience and going off tv dramas. Your tax payer remake also seems to indicate that you think the police work for you

here's a picture of our brave hero at the prime of his physical fitness, lol
Attachments:

oh puh-lease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, dipshit, you go stand in the road while
> someone tries to run you down with a 2 ton car

Ahh.. we're finally getting some understanding of what happened. You just told someone to go stand in the road where, obviously, they are potentially in the path of vehicles. If the cop hadn't stepped into the path of the moving vehicle, it isn't really a danger to get run over, is it?

The Alexandria PD see the difference, which is why he was penalized.

The car wasn't a weapon until the cop placed himself in front of it. It is the same as handing a person a handgun and then declaring your life in danger, so you shoot them in self defense.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sippy_cup Wrote:
>
> > Look I don't know what third world Sharia law
> > country you're from but here in America
> stealing
> > isn't a crime punishable by death. Cry all you
> > want that "they were trying to hit the cop,"
> > that's still no excuse to shoot someone over
> > fucking pancakes. You seriously got a couple
> of
> > screws loose if you think the cop made the
> right
> > decision to shoot a kid over pancakes. Either
> > you're seriously fucked in the head or a good
> > troll
>
> They werent shot over pancakes, they were shot
> over trying to kill a cop. Its not that hard to
> understand.


Why can't you understand this..... The cop put himself in a postion he was not authorized to be in!! He did not follow his orders! Does any of this make sense to you? His orders/contract with the restuarant were to stay in the restuarant ...NOT pursue people out of the restuarant.. Why do you think IHOP had that restriction in the cops contract... to avoid this exact scenario! The cop broke the rules just as bad as the kids did when they ran out on the bill. By putting himself in that situation HE IS TO BLAME!!

THAT IS WHY ALEXANDRIA PAID $1.1 MILLION DOLLARS TO THE BROWN FAMILY! If Alexandria thought they had a leg to stand on or that the cop was correct in his actions do you think they would have settled before the trial? When they did go to trial, to sue IHOP for the $1.1 Million and got laughed out of court. ALL BECAUSE THE COP DID NOT FOLLOW HIS ORDERS!!

4real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Why can't you understand this..... The cop put
> himself in a postion he was not authorized to be
> in!! He did not follow his orders! Does any of
> this make sense to you? His orders/contract with
> the restuarant were to stay in the restuarant
> ...NOT pursue people out of the restuarant.. Why
> do you think IHOP had that restriction in the cops
> contract... to avoid this exact scenario! The cop
> broke the rules just as bad as the kids did when
> they ran out on the bill. By putting himself in
> that situation HE IS TO BLAME!!
>
> THAT IS WHY ALEXANDRIA PAID $1.1 MILLION DOLLARS
> TO THE BROWN FAMILY! If Alexandria thought they
> had a leg to stand on or that the cop was correct
> in his actions do you think they would have
> settled before the trial? When they did go to
> trial, to sue IHOP for the $1.1 Million and got
> laughed out of court. ALL BECAUSE THE COP DID NOT
> FOLLOW HIS ORDERS!!


Wrong. Ihop has that in the contract because they often use private security and not off duty police officers. He is a real cop hes not going to just let someone leave like that.

They paid the family because its cheaper and easier to just pay than it is to battle it out in court for years. Theyre legal costs would have basically been that anyway so they paid to get it over with and they have funds already set up for this type of thing.

Im glad you blame a cop for going after someone stealing over the person who tries to run a cop over with a car. You have to be a criminal yourself to think like that.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4real Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> > Why can't you understand this..... The cop put
> > himself in a postion he was not authorized to
> be
> > in!! He did not follow his orders! Does any
> of
> > this make sense to you? His orders/contract
> with
> > the restuarant were to stay in the restuarant
> > ...NOT pursue people out of the restuarant..
> Why
> > do you think IHOP had that restriction in the
> cops
> > contract... to avoid this exact scenario! The
> cop
> > broke the rules just as bad as the kids did
> when
> > they ran out on the bill. By putting himself in
> > that situation HE IS TO BLAME!!
> >
> > THAT IS WHY ALEXANDRIA PAID $1.1 MILLION
> DOLLARS
> > TO THE BROWN FAMILY! If Alexandria thought they
> > had a leg to stand on or that the cop was
> correct
> > in his actions do you think they would have
> > settled before the trial? When they did go to
> > trial, to sue IHOP for the $1.1 Million and got
> > laughed out of court. ALL BECAUSE THE COP DID
> NOT
> > FOLLOW HIS ORDERS!!
>
>
> Wrong. Ihop has that in the contract because they
> often use private security and not off duty police
> officers. He is a real cop hes not going to just
> let someone leave like that.
>
> They paid the family because its cheaper and
> easier to just pay than it is to battle it out in
> court for years. Theyre legal costs would have
> basically been that anyway so they paid to get it
> over with and they have funds already set up for
> this type of thing.
>
> Im glad you blame a cop for going after someone
> stealing over the person who tries to run a cop
> over with a car. You have to be a criminal
> yourself to think like that.


He was an OFF DUTY Police officer on contract to do a security job at IHOP.. He signed a contract that told him what his duties were and what they were not. If he had followed the rules none of this would have happened.

I am blaming the cop because he didn't follow the rules and a kid ended up dead because of it. Good for IHOP that they had it in the contract... to bad Officer Stowe didnt bide by the rules.. Aaron Brown would be alive today if he had.

4real Wrote:

> He was an OFF DUTY Police officer on contract to
> do a security job at IHOP.. He signed a contract
> that told him what his duties were and what they
> were not. If he had followed the rules none of
> this would have happened.
>
> I am blaming the cop because he didn't follow the
> rules and a kid ended up dead because of it. Good
> for IHOP that they had it in the contract... to
> bad Officer Stowe didnt bide by the rules.. Aaron
> Brown would be alive today if he had.


Aaron brown would still be alive today if he didnt dine and dash. Aaron brown would still be alive today if he had better friends. Aaron brown would still be alive today if he wasnt drunk and high leading him to make poor decisions. Aaron brown would still be alive today if he had stopped when the cop told him too. Aaron brown would still be alive today if his friend didnt try and run the cop over.

Its sad that he died, but the death could have been avoided a ton of different ways and everyone of those ways involves the kids making the right choice. Not only did they dine and dash, they ignored orders from a cop, then the driver tried to run the cop over. He made the choice to dine and dash, he made the choice to ignore the police officer, he made the choice to get into the car. He wasnt forced to do any of those things. All of the blames lies on the kids and the choices they made and specifically the driver for escalating the situation using the car as a lethal weapon.

Its called personal responsibility. When you hang out with the wrong crowd and make the wrong decisions, then make even worse decisions to try and cover up for the first wrong decision, you risk something like this happening

Its also very sad that you blame the cop for not following the rules yet you completely excuse the behavior of the kids and all of the laws they broke.

I actually live a few miles down the road from this place in Annandale. I've been to that particular IHOP and hotel many times. Its a very, very tiny compact parking lot with crappy crowded strip malls on both side and government housing right behind it. Basically he put a ton of people's lives at risk by firing into that area. That includes the people inside the IHOP and those driving down Little River Turnpike.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its also very sad that you blame the cop for not
> following the rules yet you completely excuse the
> behavior of the kids and all of the laws they
> broke.


Were the 'KIDS' being PAID to follow the 'rules'?

We're talking about a fucking cop, dumbshit. The law is their job. They should make that piece of shit a meter maid.

Ding an sich Wrote:

> Were the 'KIDS' being PAID to follow the 'rules'?
>
> We're talking about a fucking cop, dumbshit. The
> law is their job. They should make that piece of
> shit a meter maid.


They are laws "dumbshit", you dont follow them because youre being paid, you follow them because its a law. I guess next time a drunk driver kills someone everyone will just say that the other person shouldnt have been in the way, or if someone is murdered the victim should have just gotten out of the way of the bullets. Great society we live in today were its never the persons fault who was breaking the law.

What I infer from this is you hate the police probably because you like drugs or have been busted doing something illegal before. Again only criminals would not understand the fact that the kids had to break several laws and had multiple chances to realize what they were doing was wrong and end the situation by complying but instead chose that the solution would be to try and run the cop over

@Brandon - that is the most stupid logic I've ever heard in my life.......that the cop is the ONE putting ppl at risk by attempting to stop a person who just attempted MURDER!!?!? I especially love how far you have yr head up yr ass to attack the cop for firing, but apparently for you it's A-FUCKING-OK to drive a fucking Jeep at a high rate of speed thru that EXACT SAME AREA to get away from paying the IHOP for yr food. Fuck that Bullshit, yo......

@sippy - yeah, the cop just FORCED those kids to steal from his employers, and FORCED those kids to try and commit murder.....cause he was looking for an excuse to fire his gun? THAT'S WHAT YOU BELIEVE Man, but that is weak..............

seriously, y'all............fuck you if yr telling me it's better for a cop to say "fuck it - let the next person handle it" in a situation like this cause.....................well, I know I wouldnt want to be the dumb fuck who'd be minding his own business on the Turnpike when all of a sudden I'm waking up, going "WTF?", realizing I've been in an accident, and cant move! All cause THESE ASSHOLES WANTED FREE WAFFLES!!!! FUCK THEM!!!!

Libs and other felons blame the cop. All normal Americans hold the criminals accountable for the consequences of their actions. Are we good? Can we all get back to the Rusty Hall threads now?

4real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> He was an OFF DUTY Police officer on contract to
> do a security job at IHOP.. He signed a contract
> that told him what his duties were and what they
> were not. If he had followed the rules none of
> this would have happened.
>
> I am blaming the cop because he didn't follow the
> rules and a kid ended up dead because of it. Good
> for IHOP that they had it in the contract... to
> bad Officer Stowe didnt bide by the rules.. Aaron
> Brown would be alive today if he had.

Cops are never off duty.

Let's say you are at [pick a public place] and someone starts assaulting you. If a cop is there - on duty, off duty, working privately - he's going to intervene and you'd be happy he did. The idea that IHOP's rules supercede the cops obligations as a sworn officer is laughable.

If a fight had occured at the IHOP and spilled into the parking lot and resulted in a death, and the cop had stood in the doorway of the IHOP watching so as to not break the IHOP rules, you'd be screaming for his head, saying his training was to intervene and protect life and property.

I started this thread to find out what happened to the officer who shot Aaron Brown over a Dine and Dash at the IHOP. I have found out that Officer Stowe should never have been in the situation to shoot at the Jeep according to the contract he signed with IHOP. I have found out that the Jeep driven by Steve Smith was speeding at the officer and he felt his life was at risk. I have found out that Aaron Brown was an Eagle Scout. I have found out that Officer Stowe fired 6 times at the Jeep hitting it from the front grill to the hood to the driver side back seat window (fatal shot), driver side back door and quarter panel and behind the Jeep. I have found out that Alexandria police punished the officer with the harshest penalty they could short of firing him. I found out that the Alexandria police officially changed there policy toward officers not being able to step in front of a moving vehicle. I found out that Alexandria paid the Browns $1.1 million dollars in a settlement prior to the case going to trial. I found out that Alexandria then tried to sue IHOP to get the settlement money back and were laughed out of court by the Judge (due to the Contract Officer Stowe signed) All of these are the facts that I have found out. Mostly I found out how fucked some of you people are who think a teenage kid should be killed for walking out on a $26 dollar tab at IHOP.

In conclusion: I believe Officer Stowe did not mean to shoot Aaron Brown, that he felt the Jeep was putting his life at risk; HOWEVER, he should have never been in that situation, that he overstepped his authority and by doing so he ended up killing Aaron Brown. I hope he is a man of conscious and this bothers him every day. All of you who have kids think about being in the Browns situation, where your kid makes a dumb decision and ends up being shot by the police over a $26 dollar item.

I found out that a person and his associates who commit a minor crime (stealing), followed by a more serious crime (fleeing a police officer) followed by a capital crime (assault with a deadly weapon on a police officer) leaves himself at the mercy of the split second judgement of a police officer, which can be endlessly analyzed but doesn't make him any less dead.

Every person in that Jeep had the opportunity to say:

- I'm not running out on that check
- I'm not running away from a police officer who is ordering me to stop
- I'm not getting in the car with a drunk and stoned driver

Some decisions cost you some money, some cost a job, some cost a criminal charge. Tragically for Aaron Brown, his decisions cost him his life. Stop at Crime 1, Crime 2, or Crime 3 - no death.

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I have found out that Officer Stowe should never have been in the situation to
shoot at the Jeep according to the contract he signed with IHOP.

What contract did he sign?

oh puh-lease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found out that a person and his associates who
> commit a minor crime (stealing), followed by a
> more serious crime (fleeing a police officer)
> followed by a capital crime (assault with a deadly
> weapon on a police officer) leaves himself at the
> mercy of the split second judgement of a police
> officer, which can be endlessly analyzed but
> doesn't make him any less dead.
>
> Every person in that Jeep had the opportunity to
> say:
>
> - I'm not running out on that check
> - I'm not running away from a police officer who
> is ordering me to stop
> - I'm not getting in the car with a drunk and
> stoned driver
>
> Some decisions cost you some money, some cost a
> job, some cost a criminal charge. Tragically for
> Aaron Brown, his decisions cost him his life.
> Stop at Crime 1, Crime 2, or Crime 3 - no death.


So if that were your kid, you would feel the same way?

He made a couple of dumb decisions, you can call them crimes ($26 dollar tab, which the officer knew the amount) Where has it been determined the Driver was Drunk and Stoned? We are all preaching to our kids to make good decisions, unfortunately, they don't always do that. I just find it unbelievable that for this kids bad decisions he got killed. It was all unavoidable if the cop had used good judgement and followed a myriad of different approaches. He could have called in the license plate, he could have walked out and signaled at the car without stepping in front of the car. He could have walked out and stepped in front of the car and when it looked like it was headed towards him, STEPPED OUT OF THE WAY!! tHIS IS ALL OVER A $26 IHOP bill.

I guess I am looking at this as if this were my kid and the same circumstances occured I would be going crazy.

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> So if that were your kid, you would feel the same
> way?
>

I would feel horrible and I would blame myself for not bringing my child up with the values to 1) not hang around with a bunch of criminals, 2) not refusing to participate when it starting going bad, and 3) not obeying a police officer when ordered to do so. I raise my kids to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions - not to whine or blame others. Sadly, I think I am very much in the minority these days.

Highlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justice4kid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I have found out that Officer Stowe should never
> have been in the situation to
> shoot at the Jeep according to the contract he
> signed with IHOP.
>
> What contract did he sign?

Dude.. catch up, read the previous 2 pages worth of information. There are links to articles and the investigation report. It is all there, just read it.

oh puh-lease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justice4kid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > So if that were your kid, you would feel the
> same
> > way?
> >
>
> I would feel horrible and I would blame myself for
> not bringing my child up with the values to 1) not
> hang around with a bunch of criminals, 2) not
> refusing to participate when it starting going
> bad, and 3) not obeying a police officer when
> ordered to do so. I raise my kids to take
> responsibility for the consequences of their
> actions - not to whine or blame others. Sadly, I
> think I am very much in the minority these days.

If what you say is true, you are a better man than me. After finding out all the facts in this case, I would have gone to trial and buried the Alexandria Police department. What you call whining and blaming I would have called Justice and redemption for my child being shot and killed by a police officer who made multiple bad choices. I would stack my kids bad choices up against the officers bad choices and let a jury of his peers decide who was to blame.

We all raise our kids to take responsibilty and that choices have consequences. I have been blessed that my kids have all made good choices ... SO FAR.. but I am not arrogant enough to think that ANY kid could not have got caught up in this type of scenario. For a simple misdemeanor of running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to getting shot by a police officer is simply unbelievable.

I think we also have an expectation from our police officers. They are licensed to carry a deadly weapon and that they excercize that right judicially. The over riding factor in any shooting has to be that if and when they discharge their weapon there is NO other option left for them. In this case there were multiple options available to him. That is why he was disciplined with the worst punishment they could hand him without firing him. This is a tragic case and the most tragic thing is it could ALL have been avoided.

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For a simple misdemeanor of
> running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to getting
> shot by a police officer is simply unbelievable.

Skipping out on an IHOP bill is in fact a misdemeanor. Attempting to run over anyone, police officer or not, is a felony. The question is not would the long hair freak got shot had he not run out on a bill, but would the grease ball have been shot had he not been riding in his loser friends car that was running down a cop. See the difference?

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> If what you say is true, you are a better man than
> me.

Agreed.

> After finding out all the facts in this case,
> I would have gone to trial and buried the
> Alexandria Police department.

Cause anything bad that happens must be someone else's fault, and boy do you hope they have insurance.

> What you call
> whining and blaming I would have called Justice
> and redemption for my child being shot and killed
> by a police officer who made multiple bad choices.

Such as protecting himself from a fleeing felon?

> I would stack my kids bad choices up against the
> officers bad choices and let a jury of his peers
> decide who was to blame.
>
> We all raise our kids to take responsibilty and
> that choices have consequences.

Apparently not - I doubt someone raised that way would skip out on a check and start this chain of events.

> I have been
> blessed that my kids have all made good choices
> ... SO FAR.. but I am not arrogant enough to think
> that ANY kid could not have got caught up in this
> type of scenario.

I agree with that.

>For a simple misdemeanor of
> running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to getting
> shot by a police officer is simply unbelievable.

There you go again. He was not shot because he skipped on out a $26 bill - he was shot for attempted murder of a police officer.

>
> I think we also have an expectation from our
> police officers. They are licensed to carry a
> deadly weapon and that they excercize that right
> judicially.

Judiciously but whatever, I don't want to be a grammar troll.

>The over riding factor in any shooting
> has to be that if and when they discharge their
> weapon there is NO other option left for them.
> In this case there were multiple options available to
> him.

As you see it. Put you in a dark parking lot with a drunk trying to run you down - let's see how great your decisions look in the cold light of day.

> That is why he was disciplined with the
> worst punishment they could hand him without
> firing him. This is a tragic case and the most
> tragic thing is it could ALL have been avoided.

Yes - avoided by criminals not committed an escalating serious of crimes. You are probably the same guy that says the cop that shoots the kid waving a BB gun made to look like a .45 'should have known better'.

justice4kid Wrote:

> If what you say is true, you are a better man than
> me. After finding out all the facts in this case,
> I would have gone to trial and buried the
> Alexandria Police department. What you call
> whining and blaming I would have called Justice
> and redemption for my child being shot and killed
> by a police officer who made multiple bad choices.
> I would stack my kids bad choices up against the
> officers bad choices and let a jury of his peers
> decide who was to blame.
>
> We all raise our kids to take responsibilty and
> that choices have consequences. I have been
> blessed that my kids have all made good choices
> ... SO FAR.. but I am not arrogant enough to think
> that ANY kid could not have got caught up in this
> type of scenario. For a simple misdemeanor of
> running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to getting
> shot by a police officer is simply unbelievable.
>
> I think we also have an expectation from our
> police officers. They are licensed to carry a
> deadly weapon and that they excercize that right
> judicially. The over riding factor in any shooting
> has to be that if and when they discharge their
> weapon there is NO other option left for them. In
> this case there were multiple options available to
> him. That is why he was disciplined with the
> worst punishment they could hand him without
> firing him. This is a tragic case and the most
> tragic thing is it could ALL have been avoided.

1. You risk getting nothing if you go to trial which very easily could have happened in this case. They had MULTIPLE chances to realize alright we screwed up we got caught lets go pay. Instead they chose to keep escalating the situation.

2. He wasnt shot over pancakes for the 100th time he was shot because his friend decided to try and run the cop down. You obviously dont believe in personal responsibility if you think the officer is at fault here and should have just let them go.

3. No police arent only supposed to shoot when there is no other option. They can and will shoot if their life is in danger, someone elses life is endanger, the criminal has a weapon ect. It is not their job to risk their life and try and do everything possible to avoid a situation and just let people go so they dont put themselves in harms way. You have watched FAR to many tv cop shows if you think this.

He now works for the Obama administration as a secret service agent to help keeps hims from getting assassinated.

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ding an sich Wrote:
>
> > Were the 'KIDS' being PAID to follow the
> 'rules'?
> >
> > We're talking about a fucking cop, dumbshit.
> The
> > law is their job. They should make that piece
> of
> > shit a meter maid.
>
>
> They are laws "dumbshit", you dont follow them
> because youre being paid, you follow them because
> its a law. I guess next time a drunk driver kills
> someone everyone will just say that the other
> person shouldnt have been in the way, or if
> someone is murdered the victim should have just
> gotten out of the way of the bullets. Great
> society we live in today were its never the
> persons fault who was breaking the law.
>
> What I infer from this is you hate the police
> probably because you like drugs or have been
> busted doing something illegal before. Again only
> criminals would not understand the fact that the
> kids had to break several laws and had multiple
> chances to realize what they were doing was wrong
> and end the situation by complying but instead
> chose that the solution would be to try and run
> the cop over


Yes, LAWS. EXACTLY. Are you fucking retarded? Police are PAID to ENFORCE laws. Was the kid stealing food a cop? So then why the fuck are you suggesting that he should be held to the same standard? Look, if the kid HAD been a cop, I'd say he should've lost his badge as well. But he wasn't a cop, the guy that shot him was. Just because the person you do something wrong to has also done something wrong, doesn't negate the fact that you're still doing wrong. And when you're a cop, you should be punished for such an offense. This guy murdered someone. Fuck him, he shouldn't be a cop.
And fuck you if you're too stupid to see that.

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, LAWS. EXACTLY. Are you fucking retarded?
> Police are PAID to ENFORCE laws. Was the kid
> stealing food a cop? So then why the fuck are you
> suggesting that he should be held to the same
> standard? Look, if the kid HAD been a cop, I'd say
> he should've lost his badge as well. But he wasn't
> a cop, the guy that shot him was. Just because the
> person you do something wrong to has also done
> something wrong, doesn't negate the fact that
> you're still doing wrong. And when you're a cop,
> you should be punished for such an offense. This
> guy murdered someone. Fuck him, he shouldn't be a
> cop.
> And fuck you if you're too stupid to see that.


Someone sure hates the police, when were you busted?

The only people that think it was the cop who escalated the situation to what it became are criminals. He didnt murder anyone he shot in self defense when the driver decided to try and run him down.

The blame for what happens lies in this order
The Driver
The kids
No one else.

No one forced the kids to steal, no one forced them to disobey the cop, no one forced the driver to try and run the cop over. There actions were much more than a stupid mistake. If it was just a stupid mistake they would have listened to the cop and stopped, hell any one of them could have decided this is wrong im giving myself up and see if I can just pay for it if they wanted to. They all knowingly kept participating in the action and when you engage in criminal activity nothing good comes from it. The death while sad, was 100 percent preventable by the kids and the kids death is on everyone of those kids and especially the driver.

For the 100th time the kids had SEVERAL chances to stop what they were doing and everyone would still be alive today. They didnt just make a stupid mistake. They made a stupid mistake breaking the law, a huge mistake not listening to a cop, and then tried to commit a capital offense. But pots not bad for you right?

It's pretty clear the cop did us all a favor by eliminating some scum from society. Too bad he likely won't have the chance to rid us of the criminal apologists here.

Read what really happened and the punishment that the Police brought to the cop who "unreasonably placed himself in a position that allowed the situation to elevate to a level of high risk" when he stepped in front of the Jeep. The Police department punished the cop because he used poor judgement. He should not have stepped in front of the Jeep!! You can try and justify it anyway you want, THE COP SHOULD NOT HAVE PUT HIMSELF IN THE SITUATION... IT IS HIS FAULT!




Officer Disciplined in IHOP Shooting

Aaron Brown, 18, was shot and killed last February.


ALEXANDRIA, Va. - An Alexandria police officer who shot and killed a teenager last year will be disciplined, but not fired, police officials announced on Tuesday. Officer Carl Stowe was working as a security guard when he fired shots, killing 18-year-old Aaron Brown in a Duke Street IHOP parking lot on Feb. 25.

Police Chief David Baker is not commenting on the decision, but police spokesman Jamie Bartlett says Stowe faces major discipline -- the maximum penalty short of being fired.

Police officials are not revealing the length of the suspension, but Bartlett says the suspension is more than three but less than 30 days off without pay.

The shooting occurred after a group of teens left the restaurant allegedly after failing to pay their bill.

Stowe, a 13-year veteran of the force, fired at the teens' Jeep as it drove toward him.

An internal police investigation found that Officer Stowe acted within department policy in his decision to use lethal force in self-defense, but found Stowe "unreasonably placed himself in a position that allowed the situation to elevate to a level of high risk" when he stepped in front of the Jeep.

As a result of the incident, Alexandria Police changed their policy to prohibit officers from stepping in front of moving vehicles. Officers are also prohibited from firing at moving vehicles, except as a last resort.

The Brown family says they feel "somewhat vindicated" upon learning of Chief Baker's decision.

"Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer Stowe had followed his police department's rules," the family announced in a statement through their attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker has announced a new policy...we hope this prevents other needless deaths."

If you visit that area you'll see why firing at anything moving vehicle should have only happened as a last resort aka the people inside had weapons and were firing or something of that nature. In that parking lot, if you miss, there are plenty of people and moving cars around that could easily be hit.

In a case of dine and dash, you don't step out in front of a car then blast it and claim self defense. You get plate numbers and at least a description of the occupants and vehicle and follow and arrest or call it in.

Someone missed free pancake day

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/842543/843865.html#msg-843865

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ding an sich Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Yes, LAWS. EXACTLY. Are you fucking retarded?
> > Police are PAID to ENFORCE laws. Was the kid
> > stealing food a cop? So then why the fuck are
> you
> > suggesting that he should be held to the same
> > standard? Look, if the kid HAD been a cop, I'd
> say
> > he should've lost his badge as well. But he
> wasn't
> > a cop, the guy that shot him was. Just because
> the
> > person you do something wrong to has also done
> > something wrong, doesn't negate the fact that
> > you're still doing wrong. And when you're a
> cop,
> > you should be punished for such an offense.
> This
> > guy murdered someone. Fuck him, he shouldn't be
> a
> > cop.
> > And fuck you if you're too stupid to see that.
>
>
> Someone sure hates the police, when were you
> busted?
>
> The only people that think it was the cop who
> escalated the situation to what it became are
> criminals. He didnt murder anyone he shot in self
> defense when the driver decided to try and run him
> down.
>
> The blame for what happens lies in this order
> The Driver
> The kids
> No one else.
>
> No one forced the kids to steal, no one forced
> them to disobey the cop, no one forced the driver
> to try and run the cop over. There actions were
> much more than a stupid mistake. If it was just a
> stupid mistake they would have listened to the cop
> and stopped, hell any one of them could have
> decided this is wrong im giving myself up and see
> if I can just pay for it if they wanted to. They
> all knowingly kept participating in the action and
> when you engage in criminal activity nothing good
> comes from it. The death while sad, was 100
> percent preventable by the kids and the kids death
> is on everyone of those kids and especially the
> driver.
>
> For the 100th time the kids had SEVERAL chances to
> stop what they were doing and everyone would still
> be alive today. They didnt just make a stupid
> mistake. They made a stupid mistake breaking the
> law, a huge mistake not listening to a cop, and
> then tried to commit a capital offense. But pots
> not bad for you right?


The dumbass cop stepped in front of the car. If he's that stupid, he should've been the one to die.

much more intelligent than you Wrote:

> The dumbass cop stepped in front of the car. If
> he's that stupid, he should've been the one to
> die.


Yea clearly thats the issue not the stealing, being high/drunk and driving, not listening to the police, not stopping when someone is in front of the car.

Whatd they bust you for?

pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> much more intelligent than you Wrote:
>
> > The dumbass cop stepped in front of the car. If
> > he's that stupid, he should've been the one to
> > die.
>
>
> Yea clearly thats the issue not the stealing,
> being high/drunk and driving, not listening to the
> police, not stopping when someone is in front of
> the car.

Maybe we should shoot jay-walkers as well, if they don't stop after walking in front of them...
It was a meal, not a priceless collection of diamonds.


> Whatd they bust you for?

What are you talking about..?

Look, there is no justification for shooting people who steal pancakes.

However, when you insert yourself in a situation that includes someone with a gun, and make a move that may be interperted as threatening, tragic things occur.

Whatever lead the check skipper to that fateful moment, it is important to remember that if you don't want to get shot, do not get involved with people with guns.

The police around here have a reputation for itchy trigger fingers. If you can't behave , you should at least know when to give in. Okay, I stole a meal, and now the cop is trying to stop me.

Knowing what you do about cops and their questionable use of force, it seems kind of stupid to tempt fate. The guy who got shot was a douche that could have run over an unsuspecting patron walking in the parking lot.

While the cop may have over reacted , this idiot still put himself there.

I go to IHOP , and there is one less asshole who'll run ME over in the parking lot.

And thats ok with me.

oh puh-lease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justice4kid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > If what you say is true, you are a better man
> than
> > me.
>
> Agreed. AFTER READING YOUR RESPONSES I KNOW THIS IS FALSE.
>
> > After finding out all the facts in this case,
> > I would have gone to trial and buried the
> > Alexandria Police department.
>
> Cause anything bad that happens must be someone
> else's fault, and boy do you hope they have
> insurance.

BECAUSE HIS OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT ADMITTED THAT THE COP FUCKED UP AND PUNISHED HIM FOR ELEVATING THE SITUATION WITH THE HARSHEST PENALTY SHORT OF FIRING. READ THE ARTICLE ABOVE. AGAIN YOUR OPINION VERSUS FACTS. THINK ABOUT THE POLICE CHIEF ON THE WITNESS STAND BEING CROSSED EXAMINED. TELLING THE JURY, "YES, OFFICER STOWE WAS WRONG!!! HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE STEPPED IN FRONT OF THE JEEP"

"THAT IS WHY I ADMINISTERED THE HARSHEST PENALTY SHORT OF FIRING HIM"

"YES THIS WHOLE TRADGEDY COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF OFFICER STOWE HAD USED BETTER JUDGEMENT"
>
> > What you call
> > whining and blaming I would have called Justice
> > and redemption for my child being shot and
> killed
> > by a police officer who made multiple bad
> choices.
>
> Such as protecting himself from a fleeing felon? AGAIN YOUR OPINION VERSUS THE POLICE CAPTAIN WHO PUNISHED STOWE AND BLAMED HIM FOR ELEVATING THE SITUATION. AND THE FACTS OF THE CASE
>
>
> > I would stack my kids bad choices up against
> the
> > officers bad choices and let a jury of his
> peers
> > decide who was to blame.
> >
> > We all raise our kids to take responsibilty and
> > that choices have consequences.
>
> Apparently not - I doubt someone raised that way
> would skip out on a check and start this chain of
> events. I LOVE THIS!! YOUR KIDS NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG? MY KID WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS. I SEE YOUR TYPE ALL THE TIME, MY KID WOULD NEVER BE DRINKING AT THE NEIGHBORS HOUSE, MEANWHILE THEY ARE THE ONES BRINGING THE SHIT INTO THE HOUSE.
>
> > I have been
> > blessed that my kids have all made good choices
> > ... SO FAR.. but I am not arrogant enough to
> think
> > that ANY kid could not have got caught up in
> this
> > type of scenario.
>
> I agree with that.

HOW CAN YOU AGREE WITH THIS WHEN THE WHOLE TIME YOU ARE PREACHING IF AARON HAD BEEN RAISED CORRECTLY THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. THIS IS WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, RIGHT HERE. THESE KIDS MADE A DUMB DECISION, AND YES, COMPOUNDED IT BY FAILING TO STOP WHEN STOWE APPROACHED. MADE ANOTHER STUPID DECISION TO GET INTO THE CAR AND TRY TO DRIVE AWAY. BUT THESE ARE TEENAGE KIDS. LIKE WE AGREED, HERE THEY GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE SITUATION. STOWE IS A 13 YEAR POLICE VETERAN, TRAINED IN HOW TO HANDLE THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS... COUPLE OF KIDS PROBABLY IMPAIRED (IT IS 4AM) NOT THINKING CORRECTLY WALKING OUT ON THE BILL. HE ASKS THEM TO STOP, THEY KEEP GOING... WALKS OUTSIDE SEES THEY ARE GETTING INTO A JEEP.. THEY START TO DRIVE AWAY... HE WALKS ACROSS THE PARKING LOT BETWEEN THE PARKED CARS AND STANDS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT SIGNALING THEM TO STOP. THEY TURN THE CORNER AND HEAD TOWARD HIM AND THE ONLY EXIT... THIS IS WHERE HE TRULY FUCKS UP AND WHY HE WAS PUNISHED FOR NOT USING GOOD JUDGEMENT... HE CONTINUES TO STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT.. THE JEEP SPEEDS UP.. INSTEAD OF MOVING TO THE SIDE ... INSTEAD OF MOVING BACK TO THE SAFETY OF THE PARKED CARS... HE STAYS THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT... UNTIL THE CAR SPEEDING TOWARD HIM MAKES HIM FEEL AS IF HIS LIFE IS IN DANGER AND HE PULLS HIS WEAPON AND WITH A 2 HAND GRIP ON THE GLOCK AUTO FIRES 6 SHOTS AT THE JEEP HITTING IT FROM THE FRONT BUMPER ALL THE WAY DOWN THE SIDE AND MSSING BEHIND IT. THIS CAUSES THE JEEP TO CRASH INTO PARKED CARS
>
> >For a simple misdemeanor of
> > running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to
> getting
> > shot by a police officer is simply unbelievable.
>
>
> There you go again. He was not shot because he
> skipped on out a $26 bill - he was shot for
> attempted murder of a police officer.

NO THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! THE FACTS ARE THAT STOWE PUT HIMSELF IN DANGER AND ELEVATED THE SITUATION (NOT MY WORDS THE POLICE CAPTAIN'S WORDS WHEN PUNISHING STOWE FOR POOR JUDGEMENT) AGAIN YOUR OPINION VERSUS THE FACTS.. YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH FACTS STOWE HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO DIFFUSE THE SITUATION BY SIMPLY STEPPING OUT OF THE WAY.. INSTEAD HE ELEVATED THE SITUATION TO WHERE HE ENDED UP FIRING 6 TIMES INTO A PASSING CAR.
>
> >
> > I think we also have an expectation from our
> > police officers. They are licensed to carry a
> > deadly weapon and that they excercize that
> right
> > judicially.
>
> Judiciously but whatever, I don't want to be a
> grammar troll.

AGAIN YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH FACTS SO LETS POINT OUT A GRAMMAR ERROR. NEVER MIND THE ERROR THE COP MADE IN KILLING A KID, YOU SPELLED A WORD WRONG
>
> >The over riding factor in any shooting
> > has to be that if and when they discharge their
> > weapon there is NO other option left for them.
>
> > In this case there were multiple options
> available to
> > him.
>
> As you see it. Put you in a dark parking lot with
> a drunk trying to run you down - let's see how
> great your decisions look in the cold light of
> day.

SO ARE YOU JUSTIFYING THE KILLING HERE? THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS HE DID NOT HAVE TO BE IN THE DARK PARKING LOT OR IF HE WANTED TO BE IN THE DARK PARKING LOT HE COULD HAVE BEEN TO THE SIDE WRITING DOWN THE LICENSE PLATE NUMBER GETTING A DESCRIPTION OF THE KIDS AND JEEP. INSTEAD HE ELEVATED THE SITUATION TO WHERE HE SAW HIS ONLY OPTION WAS TO FIRE HIS WEAPON. HE MADE A CHOICE AND IT WAS THE WRONG ONE.. AGAIN NOT MY OPINION BUT THE OPINION OF THE ALEXANDRIA POLICE DEPARTMENT
>
> > That is why he was disciplined with the
> > worst punishment they could hand him without
> > firing him. This is a tragic case and the most
> > tragic thing is it could ALL have been avoided.
>
> Yes - avoided by criminals not committed an
> escalating serious of crimes. You are probably
> the same guy that says the cop that shoots the kid
> waving a BB gun made to look like a .45 'should
> have known better'.

AGAIN HERE IS WHERE YOU GO BACK TO CALLING THESE KIDS CRIMINALS. I THOUGHT WE AGREED ABOVE THAT ANY KIDS COULD GET CAUGHT UP IN A SCENARIO OF MAKING BAD CHOICES AND COMPOUNDING THEM BY CONTINUING TO MAKE BAD CHOICES. WHAT WE EXPECT IS THAT OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES ESPECIALLY WHEN IT INVOLVES ANYONE WHO MAY BE IMPAIRED AND NOT USING GOOD JUDGENMENT TO TAKE THE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH... NOT GO WILD WEST ON THEM STANDING IN FRONT OF THEM ORDERING THEM TO STOP... AND WHEN THEY DON'T.. GUN THEM DOWN BY FIRING 6 SHOTS INTO THEIR CAR. I CANNOT BELIEVE ANYONE THINKS THAT IS OK BEHAVIOR FOR A POLICE OFFICER

The only tragedy here is that three of them walked away.

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh puh-lease Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > justice4kid Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > If what you say is true, you are a better man
> > than
> > > me.
> >
> > Agreed. AFTER READING YOUR RESPONSES I KNOW THIS
> IS FALSE.
> >
> > > After finding out all the facts in this case,
> > > I would have gone to trial and buried the
> > > Alexandria Police department.
> >
> > Cause anything bad that happens must be someone
> > else's fault, and boy do you hope they have
> > insurance.
>
> BECAUSE HIS OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT ADMITTED THAT
> THE COP FUCKED UP AND PUNISHED HIM FOR ELEVATING
> THE SITUATION WITH THE HARSHEST PENALTY SHORT OF
> FIRING. READ THE ARTICLE ABOVE. AGAIN YOUR
> OPINION VERSUS FACTS. THINK ABOUT THE POLICE CHIEF
> ON THE WITNESS STAND BEING CROSSED EXAMINED.
> TELLING THE JURY, "YES, OFFICER STOWE WAS WRONG!!!
> HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE STEPPED IN FRONT OF THE JEEP"
>
>
> "THAT IS WHY I ADMINISTERED THE HARSHEST PENALTY
> SHORT OF FIRING HIM"
>
> "YES THIS WHOLE TRADGEDY COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED
> IF OFFICER STOWE HAD USED BETTER JUDGEMENT"
> >
> > > What you call
> > > whining and blaming I would have called
> Justice
> > > and redemption for my child being shot and
> > killed
> > > by a police officer who made multiple bad
> > choices.
> >
> > Such as protecting himself from a fleeing felon?
> AGAIN YOUR OPINION VERSUS THE POLICE CAPTAIN WHO
> PUNISHED STOWE AND BLAMED HIM FOR ELEVATING THE
> SITUATION. AND THE FACTS OF THE CASE
> >
> >
> > > I would stack my kids bad choices up against
> > the
> > > officers bad choices and let a jury of his
> > peers
> > > decide who was to blame.
> > >
> > > We all raise our kids to take responsibilty
> and
> > > that choices have consequences.
> >
> > Apparently not - I doubt someone raised that
> way
> > would skip out on a check and start this chain
> of
> > events. I LOVE THIS!! YOUR KIDS NEVER DO
> ANYTHING WRONG? MY KID WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING
> LIKE THIS. I SEE YOUR TYPE ALL THE TIME, MY KID
> WOULD NEVER BE DRINKING AT THE NEIGHBORS HOUSE,
> MEANWHILE THEY ARE THE ONES BRINGING THE SHIT INTO
> THE HOUSE.
> >
> > > I have been
> > > blessed that my kids have all made good
> choices
> > > ... SO FAR.. but I am not arrogant enough to
> > think
> > > that ANY kid could not have got caught up in
> > this
> > > type of scenario.
> >
> > I agree with that.
>
> HOW CAN YOU AGREE WITH THIS WHEN THE WHOLE TIME
> YOU ARE PREACHING IF AARON HAD BEEN RAISED
> CORRECTLY THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. THIS IS
> WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, RIGHT HERE.
> THESE KIDS MADE A DUMB DECISION, AND YES,
> COMPOUNDED IT BY FAILING TO STOP WHEN STOWE
> APPROACHED. MADE ANOTHER STUPID DECISION TO GET
> INTO THE CAR AND TRY TO DRIVE AWAY. BUT THESE ARE
> TEENAGE KIDS. LIKE WE AGREED, HERE THEY GOT CAUGHT
> UP IN THE SITUATION. STOWE IS A 13 YEAR POLICE
> VETERAN, TRAINED IN HOW TO HANDLE THESE TYPES OF
> SITUATIONS... COUPLE OF KIDS PROBABLY IMPAIRED (IT
> IS 4AM) NOT THINKING CORRECTLY WALKING OUT ON THE
> BILL. HE ASKS THEM TO STOP, THEY KEEP GOING...
> WALKS OUTSIDE SEES THEY ARE GETTING INTO A JEEP..
> THEY START TO DRIVE AWAY... HE WALKS ACROSS THE
> PARKING LOT BETWEEN THE PARKED CARS AND STANDS IN
> THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT SIGNALING THEM TO
> STOP. THEY TURN THE CORNER AND HEAD TOWARD HIM
> AND THE ONLY EXIT... THIS IS WHERE HE TRULY FUCKS
> UP AND WHY HE WAS PUNISHED FOR NOT USING GOOD
> JUDGEMENT... HE CONTINUES TO STAND IN THE MIDDLE
> OF THE PARKING LOT.. THE JEEP SPEEDS UP.. INSTEAD
> OF MOVING TO THE SIDE ... INSTEAD OF MOVING BACK
> TO THE SAFETY OF THE PARKED CARS... HE STAYS THERE
> IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT... UNTIL THE CAR
> SPEEDING TOWARD HIM MAKES HIM FEEL AS IF HIS LIFE
> IS IN DANGER AND HE PULLS HIS WEAPON AND WITH A 2
> HAND GRIP ON THE GLOCK AUTO FIRES 6 SHOTS AT THE
> JEEP HITTING IT FROM THE FRONT BUMPER ALL THE WAY
> DOWN THE SIDE AND MSSING BEHIND IT. THIS CAUSES
> THE JEEP TO CRASH INTO PARKED CARS
> >
> > >For a simple misdemeanor of
> > > running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to
> > getting
> > > shot by a police officer is simply
> unbelievable.
> >
> >
> > There you go again. He was not shot because he
> > skipped on out a $26 bill - he was shot for
> > attempted murder of a police officer.
>
> NO THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! THE FACTS ARE THAT STOWE
> PUT HIMSELF IN DANGER AND ELEVATED THE SITUATION
> (NOT MY WORDS THE POLICE CAPTAIN'S WORDS WHEN
> PUNISHING STOWE FOR POOR JUDGEMENT) AGAIN YOUR
> OPINION VERSUS THE FACTS.. YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH
> FACTS STOWE HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO DIFFUSE THE
> SITUATION BY SIMPLY STEPPING OUT OF THE WAY..
> INSTEAD HE ELEVATED THE SITUATION TO WHERE HE
> ENDED UP FIRING 6 TIMES INTO A PASSING CAR.
> >
> > >
> > > I think we also have an expectation from our
> > > police officers. They are licensed to carry a
> > > deadly weapon and that they excercize that
> > right
> > > judicially.
> >
> > Judiciously but whatever, I don't want to be a
> > grammar troll.
>
> AGAIN YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH FACTS SO LETS POINT
> OUT A GRAMMAR ERROR. NEVER MIND THE ERROR THE COP
> MADE IN KILLING A KID, YOU SPELLED A WORD WRONG
> >
> > >The over riding factor in any shooting
> > > has to be that if and when they discharge
> their
> > > weapon there is NO other option left for them.
>
> >
> > > In this case there were multiple options
> > available to
> > > him.
> >
> > As you see it. Put you in a dark parking lot
> with
> > a drunk trying to run you down - let's see how
> > great your decisions look in the cold light of
> > day.
>
> SO ARE YOU JUSTIFYING THE KILLING HERE? THE
> PROBLEM WITH THAT IS HE DID NOT HAVE TO BE IN THE
> DARK PARKING LOT OR IF HE WANTED TO BE IN THE DARK
> PARKING LOT HE COULD HAVE BEEN TO THE SIDE WRITING
> DOWN THE LICENSE PLATE NUMBER GETTING A
> DESCRIPTION OF THE KIDS AND JEEP. INSTEAD HE
> ELEVATED THE SITUATION TO WHERE HE SAW HIS ONLY
> OPTION WAS TO FIRE HIS WEAPON. HE MADE A CHOICE
> AND IT WAS THE WRONG ONE.. AGAIN NOT MY OPINION
> BUT THE OPINION OF THE ALEXANDRIA POLICE
> DEPARTMENT
> >
> > > That is why he was disciplined with the
> > > worst punishment they could hand him without
> > > firing him. This is a tragic case and the
> most
> > > tragic thing is it could ALL have been
> avoided.
> >
> > Yes - avoided by criminals not committed an
> > escalating serious of crimes. You are probably
> > the same guy that says the cop that shoots the
> kid
> > waving a BB gun made to look like a .45 'should
> > have known better'.
>
> AGAIN HERE IS WHERE YOU GO BACK TO CALLING THESE
> KIDS CRIMINALS. I THOUGHT WE AGREED ABOVE THAT ANY
> KIDS COULD GET CAUGHT UP IN A SCENARIO OF MAKING
> BAD CHOICES AND COMPOUNDING THEM BY CONTINUING TO
> MAKE BAD CHOICES. WHAT WE EXPECT IS THAT OUR LAW
> ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES
> ESPECIALLY WHEN IT INVOLVES ANYONE WHO MAY BE
> IMPAIRED AND NOT USING GOOD JUDGENMENT TO TAKE THE
> CONSERVATIVE APPROACH... NOT GO WILD WEST ON THEM
> STANDING IN FRONT OF THEM ORDERING THEM TO STOP...
> AND WHEN THEY DON'T.. GUN THEM DOWN BY FIRING 6
> SHOTS INTO THEIR CAR. I CANNOT BELIEVE ANYONE
> THINKS THAT IS OK BEHAVIOR FOR A POLICE OFFICER

Dude chill out. Most of the people who agree with the officer's actions are either trolls, wannabe Rambo military posers who are cops, or just gun toting morons who think that Northern Virginia area is like the west side of Chicago.

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh puh-lease Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > justice4kid Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > If what you say is true, you are a better man
> > than
> > > me.
> >
> > Agreed. AFTER READING YOUR RESPONSES I KNOW THIS
> IS FALSE.
> >
> > > After finding out all the facts in this case,
> > > I would have gone to trial and buried the
> > > Alexandria Police department.
> >
> > Cause anything bad that happens must be someone
> > else's fault, and boy do you hope they have
> > insurance.
>
> BECAUSE HIS OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT ADMITTED THAT
> THE COP FUCKED UP AND PUNISHED HIM FOR ELEVATING
> THE SITUATION WITH THE HARSHEST PENALTY SHORT OF
> FIRING. READ THE ARTICLE ABOVE. AGAIN YOUR
> OPINION VERSUS FACTS. THINK ABOUT THE POLICE CHIEF
> ON THE WITNESS STAND BEING CROSSED EXAMINED.
> TELLING THE JURY, "YES, OFFICER STOWE WAS WRONG!!!
> HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE STEPPED IN FRONT OF THE JEEP"
>
>
> "THAT IS WHY I ADMINISTERED THE HARSHEST PENALTY
> SHORT OF FIRING HIM"
>
> "YES THIS WHOLE TRADGEDY COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED
> IF OFFICER STOWE HAD USED BETTER JUDGEMENT"
> >
> > > What you call
> > > whining and blaming I would have called
> Justice
> > > and redemption for my child being shot and
> > killed
> > > by a police officer who made multiple bad
> > choices.
> >
> > Such as protecting himself from a fleeing felon?
> AGAIN YOUR OPINION VERSUS THE POLICE CAPTAIN WHO
> PUNISHED STOWE AND BLAMED HIM FOR ELEVATING THE
> SITUATION. AND THE FACTS OF THE CASE
> >
> >
> > > I would stack my kids bad choices up against
> > the
> > > officers bad choices and let a jury of his
> > peers
> > > decide who was to blame.
> > >
> > > We all raise our kids to take responsibilty
> and
> > > that choices have consequences.
> >
> > Apparently not - I doubt someone raised that
> way
> > would skip out on a check and start this chain
> of
> > events. I LOVE THIS!! YOUR KIDS NEVER DO
> ANYTHING WRONG? MY KID WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING
> LIKE THIS. I SEE YOUR TYPE ALL THE TIME, MY KID
> WOULD NEVER BE DRINKING AT THE NEIGHBORS HOUSE,
> MEANWHILE THEY ARE THE ONES BRINGING THE SHIT INTO
> THE HOUSE.
> >
> > > I have been
> > > blessed that my kids have all made good
> choices
> > > ... SO FAR.. but I am not arrogant enough to
> > think
> > > that ANY kid could not have got caught up in
> > this
> > > type of scenario.
> >
> > I agree with that.
>
> HOW CAN YOU AGREE WITH THIS WHEN THE WHOLE TIME
> YOU ARE PREACHING IF AARON HAD BEEN RAISED
> CORRECTLY THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. THIS IS
> WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, RIGHT HERE.
> THESE KIDS MADE A DUMB DECISION, AND YES,
> COMPOUNDED IT BY FAILING TO STOP WHEN STOWE
> APPROACHED. MADE ANOTHER STUPID DECISION TO GET
> INTO THE CAR AND TRY TO DRIVE AWAY. BUT THESE ARE
> TEENAGE KIDS. LIKE WE AGREED, HERE THEY GOT CAUGHT
> UP IN THE SITUATION. STOWE IS A 13 YEAR POLICE
> VETERAN, TRAINED IN HOW TO HANDLE THESE TYPES OF
> SITUATIONS... COUPLE OF KIDS PROBABLY IMPAIRED (IT
> IS 4AM) NOT THINKING CORRECTLY WALKING OUT ON THE
> BILL. HE ASKS THEM TO STOP, THEY KEEP GOING...
> WALKS OUTSIDE SEES THEY ARE GETTING INTO A JEEP..
> THEY START TO DRIVE AWAY... HE WALKS ACROSS THE
> PARKING LOT BETWEEN THE PARKED CARS AND STANDS IN
> THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT SIGNALING THEM TO
> STOP. THEY TURN THE CORNER AND HEAD TOWARD HIM
> AND THE ONLY EXIT... THIS IS WHERE HE TRULY FUCKS
> UP AND WHY HE WAS PUNISHED FOR NOT USING GOOD
> JUDGEMENT... HE CONTINUES TO STAND IN THE MIDDLE
> OF THE PARKING LOT.. THE JEEP SPEEDS UP.. INSTEAD
> OF MOVING TO THE SIDE ... INSTEAD OF MOVING BACK
> TO THE SAFETY OF THE PARKED CARS... HE STAYS THERE
> IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT... UNTIL THE CAR
> SPEEDING TOWARD HIM MAKES HIM FEEL AS IF HIS LIFE
> IS IN DANGER AND HE PULLS HIS WEAPON AND WITH A 2
> HAND GRIP ON THE GLOCK AUTO FIRES 6 SHOTS AT THE
> JEEP HITTING IT FROM THE FRONT BUMPER ALL THE WAY
> DOWN THE SIDE AND MSSING BEHIND IT. THIS CAUSES
> THE JEEP TO CRASH INTO PARKED CARS
> >
> > >For a simple misdemeanor of
> > > running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to
> > getting
> > > shot by a police officer is simply
> unbelievable.
> >
> >
> > There you go again. He was not shot because he
> > skipped on out a $26 bill - he was shot for
> > attempted murder of a police officer.
>
> NO THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! THE FACTS ARE THAT STOWE
> PUT HIMSELF IN DANGER AND ELEVATED THE SITUATION
> (NOT MY WORDS THE POLICE CAPTAIN'S WORDS WHEN
> PUNISHING STOWE FOR POOR JUDGEMENT) AGAIN YOUR
> OPINION VERSUS THE FACTS.. YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH
> FACTS STOWE HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO DIFFUSE THE
> SITUATION BY SIMPLY STEPPING OUT OF THE WAY..
> INSTEAD HE ELEVATED THE SITUATION TO WHERE HE
> ENDED UP FIRING 6 TIMES INTO A PASSING CAR.
> >
> > >
> > > I think we also have an expectation from our
> > > police officers. They are licensed to carry a
> > > deadly weapon and that they excercize that
> > right
> > > judicially.
> >
> > Judiciously but whatever, I don't want to be a
> > grammar troll.
>
> AGAIN YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH FACTS SO LETS POINT
> OUT A GRAMMAR ERROR. NEVER MIND THE ERROR THE COP
> MADE IN KILLING A KID, YOU SPELLED A WORD WRONG
> >
> > >The over riding factor in any shooting
> > > has to be that if and when they discharge
> their
> > > weapon there is NO other option left for them.
>
> >
> > > In this case there were multiple options
> > available to
> > > him.
> >
> > As you see it. Put you in a dark parking lot
> with
> > a drunk trying to run you down - let's see how
> > great your decisions look in the cold light of
> > day.
>
> SO ARE YOU JUSTIFYING THE KILLING HERE? THE
> PROBLEM WITH THAT IS HE DID NOT HAVE TO BE IN THE
> DARK PARKING LOT OR IF HE WANTED TO BE IN THE DARK
> PARKING LOT HE COULD HAVE BEEN TO THE SIDE WRITING
> DOWN THE LICENSE PLATE NUMBER GETTING A
> DESCRIPTION OF THE KIDS AND JEEP. INSTEAD HE
> ELEVATED THE SITUATION TO WHERE HE SAW HIS ONLY
> OPTION WAS TO FIRE HIS WEAPON. HE MADE A CHOICE
> AND IT WAS THE WRONG ONE.. AGAIN NOT MY OPINION
> BUT THE OPINION OF THE ALEXANDRIA POLICE
> DEPARTMENT
> >
> > > That is why he was disciplined with the
> > > worst punishment they could hand him without
> > > firing him. This is a tragic case and the
> most
> > > tragic thing is it could ALL have been
> avoided.
> >
> > Yes - avoided by criminals not committed an
> > escalating serious of crimes. You are probably
> > the same guy that says the cop that shoots the
> kid
> > waving a BB gun made to look like a .45 'should
> > have known better'.
>
> AGAIN HERE IS WHERE YOU GO BACK TO CALLING THESE
> KIDS CRIMINALS. I THOUGHT WE AGREED ABOVE THAT ANY
> KIDS COULD GET CAUGHT UP IN A SCENARIO OF MAKING
> BAD CHOICES AND COMPOUNDING THEM BY CONTINUING TO
> MAKE BAD CHOICES. WHAT WE EXPECT IS THAT OUR LAW
> ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES
> ESPECIALLY WHEN IT INVOLVES ANYONE WHO MAY BE
> IMPAIRED AND NOT USING GOOD JUDGENMENT TO TAKE THE
> CONSERVATIVE APPROACH... NOT GO WILD WEST ON THEM
> STANDING IN FRONT OF THEM ORDERING THEM TO STOP...
> AND WHEN THEY DON'T.. GUN THEM DOWN BY FIRING 6
> SHOTS INTO THEIR CAR. I CANNOT BELIEVE ANYONE
> THINKS THAT IS OK BEHAVIOR FOR A POLICE OFFICER

tl;dr

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> AGAIN HERE IS WHERE YOU GO BACK TO CALLING THESE
> KIDS CRIMINALS. I THOUGHT WE AGREED ABOVE THAT ANY
> KIDS COULD GET CAUGHT UP IN A SCENARIO OF MAKING
> BAD CHOICES AND COMPOUNDING THEM BY CONTINUING TO
> MAKE BAD CHOICES.

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING? 'Bad choices' sounds like you picked the wrong line to wait on at the bank or the wrong entree at a restaurant. You say bad choices, I say crimes. Virginia Code says crimes. Criminal killed in the act of committing a felony. Drunk, stoned, out at 4AM committing crimes - that's no 'kid' my friend.

Look at the bright side
The kid had a righteous last meal
The cop got some target practice
and there is one less violent thief in the world

Lets celebrate..the pancakes are on me!

I'm not sure who is intellectually inferior in this thread between

A. The people who are arguing that a teenager's death is justifiable while sitting in the back-seat of a car after a dine-and-dash. Either these people are stupid or are very good at provoking mentally inept people.

or

B. The people trying to convince those in Group A that their arguments are fundamentally flawed. There is no use in convincing the people of group A who lack a basic understanding of common reason, physics, and law to come to a rational conclusion of the events presented.

People who argue like those in Group A have realized that the internet is a forum for one-dimensional arguments without putting their face on the issue. It's easy to claim "that kid should have died because he stole eggs and pancakes" out here. No one would make these claims in a real-world setting because most reasonable people would laugh and shake their heads (like I did when I read some of these responses). But it's actually equally amusing to watch the people of Group B try to reason with those in Group A.

Now I'll wait for someone to respond with "Group C is the most retarded..." (losers..)

"HOW CAN YOU AGREE WITH THIS WHEN THE WHOLE TIME YOU ARE PREACHING IF AARON HAD BEEN RAISED CORRECTLY THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. THIS IS WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, RIGHT HERE. THESE KIDS MADE A DUMB DECISION, AND YES, COMPOUNDED IT BY FAILING TO STOP WHEN STOWE APPROACHED. MADE ANOTHER STUPID DECISION TO GET INTO THE CAR AND TRY TO DRIVE AWAY. BUT THESE ARE TEENAGE KIDS. LIKE WE AGREED, HERE THEY GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE SITUATION. STOWE IS A 13 YEAR POLICE VETERAN, TRAINED IN HOW TO HANDLE THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS... COUPLE OF KIDS PROBABLY IMPAIRED (IT IS 4AM) NOT THINKING CORRECTLY WALKING OUT ON THE BILL. HE ASKS THEM TO STOP, THEY KEEP GOING... WALKS OUTSIDE SEES THEY ARE GETTING INTO A JEEP.. THEY START TO DRIVE AWAY... HE WALKS ACROSS THE PARKING LOT BETWEEN THE PARKED CARS AND STANDS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT SIGNALING THEM TO STOP. THEY TURN THE CORNER AND HEAD TOWARD HIM AND THE ONLY EXIT... THIS IS WHERE HE TRULY FUCKS UP AND WHY HE WAS PUNISHED FOR NOT USING GOOD JUDGEMENT... HE CONTINUES TO STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT.. THE JEEP SPEEDS UP.. INSTEAD OF MOVING TO THE SIDE ... INSTEAD OF MOVING BACK TO THE SAFETY OF THE PARKED CARS... HE STAYS THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT... UNTIL THE CAR SPEEDING TOWARD HIM MAKES HIM FEEL AS IF HIS LIFE IS IN DANGER AND HE PULLS HIS WEAPON AND WITH A 2 HAND GRIP ON THE GLOCK AUTO FIRES 6 SHOTS AT THE JEEP HITTING IT FROM THE FRONT BUMPER ALL THE WAY DOWN THE SIDE AND MSSING BEHIND IT. THIS CAUSES THE JEEP TO CRASH INTO PARKED CARS "



This is truely the dumbest paragraph of this entire thread. I just love how you yourself admit the kids speed the car up when the cop was standing in front telling them to stop and you blame the cop for not moving instead of the kids trying to run him over.

By your same logic all the kids in the car should have moved out of the way of the bullets after all what were they doing standing in the way of bullets. Rape victims should just get out of the way of dicks.

Yea who cares they stole, who cares they were driving drunk and high, who cares they didnt listen to a cop, who cares they tried to kill a cop. Screw personal responsibility people should just be allowed to commit whatever crimes they want and the cops should let them go if they dont feel like going to jail.

This thread gets dumber and dumber as it goes on and it has now been confirmed that people in ADC must be all over this thread because only criminals could have such stupid opinions. He was also only suspended just because its easier to do that then listen to a bunch of whiners outside who dont believe in personal responsibility at all and its always the other persons fault helicopter moms protesting out front. If they felt hed actually done anything wrong he would have been fired

good shot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only tragedy here is that three of them walked
> away.

I read in the report that at least one of them left enough money on the table to pay their share of the check. How did the cop know which one not to shoot?

Awesome

I said it once I'll say it again most of the people who agree with the officer's actions are either trolls, wannabe Rambo military posers who are cops, or just gun toting morons who think that Northern Virginia area is like the west side of Chicago.

I love how so many people know EXACTLY what happened on that night. A reading of the different witness statements as summarized in the prosecutor's report shows there are significant disagreements over exactly what happened, and no witness's statements seems to fit perfectly with the physical evidence. The prosecutor's report reads more like a brief for the defense of the police officer than an objective analysis of what actually happened. As for the versions being sold by the kids/family after the incident, let's just say there is a great deal that gets conveniently omitted. (Does anyone know if any of the kids other than the driver or the deceased was checked for alcohol or drugs?) In any event it seems that many people here ON BOTH SIDES are seeing what they want to see out of this event.

it's not really rocket science, Bill.

everyone should see it's kinda stupid to go into an IHOP and not pay for yr shit, plain and simple.

and you shouldnt try to kill a cop with yr car - if you do you MIGHT get shot at..........y'know, being an escaping felon and all at that point:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-817

I could see dumb kids doing an IHOP thing but most "good kids doing dumb things" dont run down cops.

Either way, it's funny to see ppl like "justice" up there saying he'd be all mad at the cops for harming his wee 'lil angel for robbing a retail establishment (Enable Much?). When y'all are out there tomorrow complaining about all the entitled brats you are going to run into..................well you know who to blame now LoLz.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 08:10PM by Gordon Blvd.

Thank you Gordon for beautifully illustrating my point. The assumption that the driver was trying to run down the police officer is certainly one that could reasonably be drawn from the witness statements. However you could just as easily assume from the same statements and other evidence that the driver was trying to avoid hitting the officer, or that the driver was so startled by the whole situation of having an officer suddenly standing in his way (remember he confessed to drug violations and there was alcohol in the vehicle so we don't know if that affected his mental processes) that he didn't formulate any kind of plan at all for dealing with someone who suddenly appeared in his path when he came around the turn. With three reasonable alternatives, all equally supportable by the evidence, which one you choose is an indication of where you are starting from.

Makes me glad to know the cop took the garbage out. Keep up the good work!

The male teenage brain has not yet fully developed until at least twenty two. They can't reason. Now take a nerdy Boy Scout who wants to impress a girl. I mean he must have been a dork. So he gets this lame idea to impress the girl and does a dine and dash. His male sexed brain is thinking about pussy. In no way does he think a REAL cop works at IHOP. He took the risk for pussy. He lost.

Lesson learned: FC cops don't know the male teenage brain. It is the same reason they drink and drive. Males can't reason.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you Gordon for beautifully illustrating my
> point. The assumption that the driver was trying
> to run down the police officer is certainly one
> that could reasonably be drawn from the witness
> statements. However you could just as easily
> assume from the same statements and other evidence
> that the driver was trying to avoid hitting the
> officer, or that the driver was so startled by the
> whole situation of having an officer suddenly
> standing in his way (remember he confessed to drug
> violations and there was alcohol in the vehicle so
> we don't know if that affected his mental
> processes) that he didn't formulate any kind of
> plan at all for dealing with someone who suddenly
> appeared in his path when he came around the turn.
> With three reasonable alternatives, all equally
> supportable by the evidence, which one you choose
> is an indication of where you are starting from.


The first point would be high or drunk ect in any way does not change the response to a car coming at a cop so it really doesnt matter if he was too messed up or not to formulate what was going on.

But the point has been from the start that while it is sad that the kid died, the fact that cannot be argued and is supported by everything is that the kids had multiple chances to realize what they were doing was wrong and stop. They could have not dined and dashed in the first place, they could have stopped when told too, they could have not gotten into the car. Anyone of them could have done this on their own and said Im not going to be a part of this anymore.

A lot of people want to blame the cop for it, but the fact is that it is the kids who put themselves in a situation where this could have happened the driver especially.

Pathetic, I would point out exactly how you are doing the same thing Gordon is, but since I picked on the pro-officer side once I feel the next shot should be directed towards someone on the other side.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pathetic, I would point out exactly how you are
> doing the same thing Gordon is, but since I picked
> on the pro-officer side once I feel the next shot
> should be directed towards someone on the other
> side.

Not really, my main point is that the blame lies with them for their actions that led it to that point. Regardless of whether the shooting was justified had at any point they decided to stop and do the right thing they would all still be alive today. Personally I blame the driver the most, but youre right we werent there so we dont know exactly what happened. With that said I will give the officer the benefit of the doubt in situations of grey area and tough split second decisions unlike some others who will automatically assume the cop was in the wrong.

This was guy I knew from school a really cool kid did not deserve this. From what I heard it was not even targeted towards him. They thought it was someone else. The Officer no longer on the beat.

Many of the replies on this thread provide more proof, as if any is needed, that we are indeed now an idiocracy. What kind of allegedly rational human being defends a roided out off duty cop shooting at kids who committed the horrific crime of dashing out on a $26 bill? You have homeowners all over the country who have been charged with crimes for shooting burglars who have broken into their residences, yet you want to give these out of control, taxpayer funded thugs the power to fire at people over something like this?

Look at you tube- everyday, there are new videos of raging cops bashing tiny skateboarder kids, pulling elderly citizens from their wheelchairs, tazering all manner of law abiding citizens. Yet you want to give these members of what amounts to an occupying army more power?

As for the results of the "investigation" in this case- have you ever seen a police internal investigation that didn't defend the officer(s) in question? Like doctors and lawyers, cops can't be trusted to police themselves. They consider the myriad of unnecessary laws to be applied only to average suckers, not them. And they also know not to bother the rich and famous. Try getting arrested multiple times for drunk driving or beating your wife to a pulp, as half the players in the NFL have, and see if you get suspended sentences and community service, which is what they always get, if they don't simply have all charges dropped.

If we had any real political representation, one of the first things an honest congressman would do is launch a full scale investigation into the epidemic of police brutality, which has gone viral from sea to shining sea in this country. They need to replace probably 75% of all cops, and go back to being what they were supposed to be in the first place- peace officers, not law enforcement.

Lovely. Now for the counterpoint.

The officer hears there is a D&D in progress and moves to intercept the supposed offenders. He probably assumes that once they see him they will stop and he can straighten the matter out. That is how it had gone previously that evening, and who is stupid enough to run someone down in order to skip out on a $20-30 tab? He therefore takes a highly visible position in or near the lane of travel to insure the car sees him and stops. Then he finds himself in the path of a quickly moving vehicle with not much room separating them. The officer's desire to get the vehicle to stop holds him in place for a moment as the distance closes. Maybe the vehicle is trying to hit him. Maybe not. It doesn't matter. Either way he is now committed. At that point rational thought has taken a holiday and the officer is operating on instinct, honed by training. It's all over in three seconds, possibly less. Again this is a conclusion you can easily draw from the conflicting statements and other evidence.

What you do in that situation is GET YOUR ASS OUT OF THE WAY. You don't pull out your gun and start firing. He's a cop, not some war vet. There is no acceptable excuse for his actions. There's no reason for a cop to EVER fire on someone that is unarmed.

The off duty officer "heard a d & d was underway." Yes, the monstrously important crime of "d & d." Something that is certainly worth pulling your gun over. Do you support a cop's right to use lethal force on jaywalkers? How about chronic u-turn violaters? Watch the classic "Andy Griffith Show" reruns- not that long ago, our society used to lampoon this kind of absurd, over the top behavior by police.

Understand that police are public servants. They are supposed to be answerable to citizens. Try to even question one politely. They don't brook any dissent, and most people have learned, through hard experience, that the best policy in dealing with them is to not speak unless spoken to. Does that sound like the kind of relationship that should exist between free people and those who, at least for most of our nation's history, were tasked with keeping the peace?

Police need their power severely curtailed, not given mindless endorsement by those who evidently haven't watched you tube much and viewed their performances.

Whatever happens, please do your part to make sure this thread never ends. It's nice to read reasoned debate for a change and see people opening their minds about this event in which a group of moron thugs began a chain of events that ended with one of them as wormfood.

Can't get enough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever happens, please do your part to make sure
> this thread never ends. It's nice to read
> reasoned debate for a change and see people
> opening their minds about this event in which a
> group of moron thugs began a chain of events that
> ended with one of them as wormfood.


If you had stayed in school, you might have learned to better articulate yourself. Pity.

@unreals - jaywalkers would get shot at if they had just tried to KILL a cop, yo.

@ding - in case you are truly braindead, I'll actually waste the time to point out that those WERE armed..........with a fucking Jeep they had just tried to kill a man with. Wake up, kid. The reality of the situation may have started over pancakes but those assholes had to take it further by running.

@Bill - yr counterpoint is wrong, bro. Cop wasnt "called in" he was working security at the restaurant and was off duty when this occurred. Myself, I think the cop made a bad call, but something that was a reasonable "bad call" given the circumstances he was under (just being almost killed by some brats over a meal they MOST OBVIOUS had enough money to pay for since, well y'know, since they had a fucking Jeep and everything........) but that doesnt mean that the cop was a bad cop, or did something illegal or anything. Either way, just want to keep the facts straight.

@I knew him - well if you knew him why didnt you give him some food? Apparently, he was starving so much he was willing to risk other people's lives and safety for food..........

@Teenagers: so let me see if I get this straight...........you say it's ok for kids to rob me if it's for pussy, right?

and for everybody who wants to defend these assholes WHO COMMIT ROBBERY:GET THE FUCK OUT OF FAIRFAX COUNTY!!!!


I'm going to work now. I work to pay for the SAME GODDAMN FOOD that those entitled brats felt they had the right to steal. The thought that some of y'all are all like "it's cool they did that" or "it's only $26" or "they are just kids" - if you feel like that then FUCK YOU AND THE CAMARO YOUR WHORE MOTHER CONCEIVED YOU IN!

FUCK YOU IF YOU THINK ITS OK FOR A KID TO STEAL AND RUN WHEN CONFRONTED

FUCK YOU IF YOU THINK THE COPS ARE WRONG TO DEFEND SOMEONE OR SOME PLACE THATS BEEN STOLEN FROM

and especially...........

A BIG OLE FUCK YOU IF YOU THINK ITS OK TO STEAL FROM A STORE WHEN YOU HAVE THE $$$ TO PAY FOR YOUR SHIT, G

I hope you didn't expect me to read all of that - it was barely worth my time to read the part specifically directed toward me...

The cop placed HIMSELF in front of the car, that was not the driver's doing. If you think that qualifies as the driver trying to kill someone, you're as retarded as the cop.

Also, 'dining and dashing' does not constitute 'robbery'. Dictionaries are readily available both on and off the internet.


About a month ago people were accusing me of being you. I don't see how anyone could confuse me with a dumbass like yourself...

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @unreals - jaywalkers would get shot at if they
> had just tried to KILL a cop, yo.
>
> @ding - in case you are truly braindead, I'll
> actually waste the time to point out that those
> WERE armed..........with a fucking Jeep they had
> just tried to kill a man with. Wake up, kid. The
> reality of the situation may have started over
> pancakes but those assholes had to take it further
> by running.
>
> @Bill - yr counterpoint is wrong, bro. Cop wasnt
> "called in" he was working security at the
> restaurant and was off duty when this occurred.
> Myself, I think the cop made a bad call, but
> something that was a reasonable "bad call" given
> the circumstances he was under (just being almost
> killed by some brats over a meal they MOST OBVIOUS
> had enough money to pay for since, well y'know,
> since they had a fucking Jeep and
> everything........) but that doesnt mean that the
> cop was a bad cop, or did something illegal or
> anything. Either way, just want to keep the facts
> straight.
>
> @I knew him - well if you knew him why didnt you
> give him some food? Apparently, he was starving
> so much he was willing to risk other people's
> lives and safety for food..........
>
> @Teenagers: so let me see if I get this
> straight...........you say it's ok for kids to rob
> me if it's for pussy, right?
>
> and for everybody who wants to defend these
> assholes WHO COMMIT ROBBERY:GET THE FUCK OUT OF
> FAIRFAX COUNTY!!!!
>
>
> I'm going to work now. I work to pay for the SAME
> GODDAMN FOOD that those entitled brats felt they
> had the right to steal. The thought that some of
> y'all are all like "it's cool they did that" or
> "it's only $26" or "they are just kids" - if you
> feel like that then FUCK YOU AND THE CAMARO YOUR
> WHORE MOTHER CONCEIVED YOU IN!
>
> FUCK YOU IF YOU THINK ITS OK FOR A KID TO STEAL
> AND RUN WHEN CONFRONTED
>
> FUCK YOU IF YOU THINK THE COPS ARE WRONG TO DEFEND
> SOMEONE OR SOME PLACE THATS BEEN STOLEN FROM
>
> and especially...........
>
> A BIG OLE FUCK YOU IF YOU THINK ITS OK TO STEAL
> FROM A STORE WHEN YOU HAVE THE $$$ TO PAY FOR YOUR
> SHIT, G


tl;dr

It seems Officer Stowe moved to LA and become part of the LAPD. He was recently videoed performing his duties flaweslessly in another restuarant parking lot situation. This time he was able to get off 10 shots hitting the perp with all 10 shots. He has improved his judgement hitting the perp 5 times in the front and then pumping 5 more shots into the bastard in the back. We were lucky enough to have a concerned citizen there to video this courageous officer taking down the felon who this time did not have a Jeep to threaten him but a crowbar.

Congrats to Officer Stowe!! All us law abiding citizens in NoVA miss you


http://youtu.be/NB0gBtaV9uw

How many murderers-drug dealers-other felons are caught by a traffic stop or some other minor crime? Someone who runs after committing a minor crime (the pancakes) often times is running for another reason entirely (in this case, the DWI and the drugs in the car).

Most sane, non-criminals stop when an officer steps in front of a car - they don't speed up to run him down. I think it's entirely rational for a cop to escalate his force when someone resists for a minor crime - the cop has no idea who/what he is facing until after the arrest is made. Same reason a cop approaches your car in a traffic stop cautiously with his hand on his gun - whether it's 4AM or 4PM, whether you are a soccer mom or a drug dealer.

To answer your question, Timothy McVeigh (OK City bomber) was caught because of a stop involving expired tags.

Crockett: Hey Rico...the word up around "Murder City" is that they have a renegade officer who takes moonlighting security jobs at all-night diners in order to gun down all the "chew and screwers"...Castillo wants us to take a few days and go up there and check it out...

Tubbs: Man...let that suckah' draw down on me after my Rooty Tooty Fresh and Fruity and I'll run him over!

Crockett: Hey pardner...just make sure you're the one driving since he only seems to target the OCCUPANTS of the vehicle and not the immediate threat behind the wheel...

Tubbs: The whole thing stinks, Sonny...fortunately the 703 allows concealed carry so, there'll be PLENTY of armed citizens ready to smoke the guard before anyone else gets hurt or killed...

Phil Collins: ...and I can feel it...coming in the air tonight...Oh Lord...

I don't understand some of you people's reasoning here any more than you seem to understand mine. It seems like you just love protecting criminals at the expense of the safety of the rest of us. If someone car-jacks a vehicle, leads Police on a high speed chase through the city, and the jacker eventually loses control and kills an innocent pedestrian, you won't blame the car-jacker, you'll blame the Cops. You'll actually say, "If the Police weren't chasing him, he wouldn't have had to drive so fast and accidentally killed someone. Fuck those Cops!". This mind-set is the reason that Cops can't actually chase criminals anymore. You would rather let criminals continue to prey on innocent victims than let Cops do their jobs.

In this specific case there are two main sides of the argument. You have one group that feels that when people, (teenagers or otherwise), engage in reckless, dangerous, or criminal activity, they should be held accountable for their actions. When a teenager loses his life, as happened in this case, this group finds it regrettable, but ultimately places the responsibility for the outcome on the teenager for instigating the situation, and then exacerbating it up until the use of deadly force. This group believes in holding people accountable for their actions in the hopes that if more people are held accountable, less potentially dangerous situations will occur, especially once the understanding is reached with people in our society that you WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHOICES YOU MAKE.

The second group believes in a more forgiving philosophy. Criminal activity shouldn't be harshly punished if it wasn't a particularly "bad" crime. They believe in giving lessons rather than punishment. They believe in slaps on the wrist before full on punishment. They believe in giving the person committing the crime, the benefit of the doubt and will even suggest reasons why the "criminal" is NOT really at fault due to age, mindset, education level, I.Q., original intention, racially motivating factors, cultural heritage, upbringing, etc. This group will shift the focus from the initial criminal behavior of the instigator onto the reactions of those being affected, (in this case, a Police Officer). They'll say, "Shouldn't the Cop have known better? Why did he try to stop them in the first place? Why didn't he just move out of the way of the oncoming car? Why didn't he just stay inside the restaurant and allow them to leave. Was his action against policy? Why did he shoot a teenager? Shouldn't he just have shot out the tires? Why wasn't he a better shot? Was he too fat? Did he just have an urge to kill someone?" and so on.

Much like the defense lawyer in a criminal trial, they will attempt to put the victim on trial and turn the initial offender into the victim. In this case, they refuse to admit that the Cop is the victim of an act of attempted murder, they feel that the teenager is the victim of rash actions by the Cop and the Cop is an evil, horrible "kid killer" who should burn in hell. They steadfastly refuse to admit ANY responsibility on the part of the "criminal", and place it all squarely on the Officer. They throw out red-herrings like the value of the property stolen, ("It was ONLY $26!"), in an attempt to seem reasonable, as if they might agree that a higher value theft would justify the Cop's actions, when truthfully, the teenager could have stolen a MILLION dollars and they would still be saying all the same things that they are now.

What it boils down to is that the second group will ALWAYS side against the Police Officer in almost ANY situation. If the teens had actually SHOT at the Cop, they would still be in here saying that the Cop should have simply taken cover and not returned fire. They will say that the Cop exacerbated the situation by returning fire, and that the Cop made the situation worse and put innocent lives in danger. They will say that the teens simply made a "mistake" in shooting at the Cop and chalk it up to their youth, immaturity, and love of video games. They will say that the Cop should have used his experience and intellect to know "better" than to return fire. And if the kids are caught, they will expect leniency and a short sentence.


No matter WHAT the situation, you will always coddle, excuse, rationalize, or otherwise forgive the criminal behavior. You will refuse to acknowledge that the "perp" instigated the situation and then brought the horrible consequences down upon himself. It will ALWAYS be someone else's fault because you have no sense of personal accountability and accepting responsibility for your actions.

If I walked up to a Cop and punched him in the head, I MIGHT be killed. I would CERTAINLY get an ass-beating. I know that to be a fact and so I DON'T ASSAULT COPS! If I did assault an Officer, I certainly wouldn't piss and moan about the consequences.

oh puh-lease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many murderers-drug dealers-other felons are
> caught by a traffic stop or some other minor
> crime? Someone who runs after committing a minor
> crime (the pancakes) often times is running for
> another reason entirely (in this case, the DWI and
> the drugs in the car).
>
> Most sane, non-criminals stop when an officer
> steps in front of a car - they don't speed up to
> run him down. I think it's entirely rational for a
> cop to escalate his force when someone resists for
> a minor crime - the cop has no idea who/what he is
> facing until after the arrest is made. Same
> reason a cop approaches your car in a traffic stop
> cautiously with his hand on his gun - whether it's
> 4AM or 4PM, whether you are a soccer mom or a drug
> dealer.


Another parking lot shooting ... EXCEPT this one is justified! Lets see if we can tell the difference between this correct one and the wrong one that occured here?

http://youtu.be/drLxICQLEJU

Notice the perp in this one has a gun and approaches the officer... he warns him and then takes action. This cop only shot twice.. Officer Stowe fired 6 times! How I wish there was a video of the Aaron Brown killing.

That was very well said. Personally im not even against giving people a break or a second chance if they make a stupid mistake like a dine and dash. However in order for them to receive that break they have to stop when caught and show remorse knowing they messed up and arent getting away with it. Once you try and run from the police you have lost the right to be given a break since you certainly havent learned a lesson from what you did and are showing youll do anything to get away with it. That type of attitude isnt the attitude of a 1 time offender who got caught, but rather someone who will continue to do so and try and avoid the consequences.

Again while he death is sad, it was 100% preventable had the kids just mad a different choice at one of the several points of the confrontation.

People keep talking about robberies and car-jackings and all sorts of bullshit, COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that NONE of these took place. He stole some food, and tried to speed off. The car was ALREADY MOVING when the dumbshit cop placed himself in front of it. Go study momementum and reaction-time. Cars don't automatically stop as soon as an obstruction appears. The cop should've gotten out of the way. If he wanted to shoot something, he should've shot out their back tires.

oh that's just GREAT logic there, ding - hey cops! If a criminal commits a crime, Ding feels you really just need to get out of their way......................
Attachments:

Tyrone Shoelaces Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sometimes people make a dumb mistake that may cost
> them their life. It is unfair to blame the cop in
> this situation. Dude didn't plan on getting shot
> but it happened and he was in the wrong, don't
> blame the cop. That's unfair. It was not the
> fault of the cop or the kid, but he played on the
> wrong side at the wrong time with the wrong
> friends. Don't over think this one and don't
> blame the cops.

Its kind a hard not to blame a cop for shooting a kid over skipping out on paying for some pancakes. Take down their license plate and put them in jail for a month maybe but killing them seems like a bit much. He didn't HAVE to step out in front of the car, in fact its kind of stupid.

With taht said, they should lock up the driver for 5 or 10 years.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh that's just GREAT logic there, ding - hey cops!
> If a criminal commits a crime, Ding feels you
> really just need to get out of their
> way......................


You REALLY shouldn't respond to posts if your comprehension is that terrible. I said none of that.

You seem to be advocating the use of police officers as barriers... The police department doesn't even allow them to do this anymore, dumbshit.

same diff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justice4kid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For a simple misdemeanor of
> > running out on a $26 dollar IHOP bill to
> getting
> > shot by a police officer is simply unbelievable.
>
>
> Skipping out on an IHOP bill is in fact a
> misdemeanor. Attempting to run over anyone,
> police officer or not, is a felony. The question
> is not would the long hair freak got shot had he
> not run out on a bill, but would the grease ball
> have been shot had he not been riding in his loser
> friends car that was running down a cop. See the
> difference?


So I assume that the driver went to jail for attempted murder because so far we have established as fact that the cop shot the kid in the back seat to death and thats ok because the driver was trying to kill the cop and we are sure of that because teh driver is in jail for attempted murder right?

Right?

Ding an sich Wrote:
------------------------------------------------
> He stole some food, and tried to speed off. The
> car was ALREADY MOVING when the dumbshit cop
> placed himself in front of it. Go study momementum
> and reaction-time. Cars don't automatically stop
> as soon as an obstruction appears.

What ruins your rather poorly crafted argument to excuse the driver's actions is the fact that eye-witness reports as well as physical evidence at the scene prove that it's NOT that the driver "couldn't stop in time". It's been proven that he NEVER EVEN TRIED.

He not only DID NOT TRY TO HIT THE BRAKES with a Cop standing in front of his vehicle, HE ACCELERATED AT THE COP. What part of this is difficult for you to grasp?

I know that you'd prefer to believe that the tragic driver simply couldn't stop the car in time because the evil Officer "jumped out in front of him" when it was too late to bring the vehicle to a complete halt. That doesn't excuse NOT at least TRYING to stop the car. It doesn't excuse ACCELERATING YOUR RATE OF SPEED toward the Cop, and it certainly doesn't excuse SWERVING TOWARD THE OFFICER with your vehicle.

One of the people IN the car stated that she screamed out, "Oh my GOD! You're going to KILL that Cop. STOP!"

When you consider the lack of brakeing, the descision to actually accelerate, the act of "aiming" at the Cop, and enough time elapsing for a passenger inside the car to see what was happening, evaluate the situation, and call out for the driver to "STOP THE CAR, it doesn't seem like quite the innocent, "split second" situation that you would like to pretend it was.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2012 06:35PM by Taylor.

So, tell me then, WAS the driver charged with attempted manslaugher? Because according to you, he should have been.

And how does this have any bearing on whether the cop was wrong to discharge his weapon? He didn't even hit the driver. Likewise, the driver never hit the cop.
Cops are supposed to follow protocol. Standing in front of a moving vehicle is stupid regardless of your occupation.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ding an sich Wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------
> > He stole some food, and tried to speed off. The
> > car was ALREADY MOVING when the dumbshit cop
> > placed himself in front of it. Go study
> momementum
> > and reaction-time. Cars don't automatically
> stop
> > as soon as an obstruction appears.
>
> What ruins your rather poorly crafted argument to
> excuse the driver's actions is the fact that
> eye-witness reports as well as physical evidence
> at the scene prove that it's NOT that the driver
> "couldn't stop in time". It's been proven that he
> NEVER EVEN TRIED.
>
> He not only DID NOT TRY TO HIT THE BRAKES with a
> Cop standing in front of his vehicle, HE
> ACCELERATED AT THE COP. What part of this is
> difficult for you to grasp?
>
> I know that you'd prefer to believe that the
> tragic driver simply couldn't stop the car in time
> because the evil Officer "jumped out in front of
> him" when it was too late to bring the vehicle to
> a complete halt. That doesn't excuse NOT at least
> TRYING to stop the car. It doesn't excuse
> ACCELERATING YOUR RATE OF SPEED toward the Cop,
> and it certainly doesn't excuse SWERVING TOWARD
> THE OFFICER with your vehicle.
>
> One of the people IN the car stated that she
> screamed out, "Oh my GOD! You're going to KILL
> that Cop. STOP!"
>
> When you consider the lack of brakeing, the
> descision to actually accelerate, the act of
> "aiming" at the Cop, and enough time elapsing for
> a passenger inside the car to see what was
> happening, evaluate the situation, and call out
> for the driver to "STOP THE CAR, it doesn't seem
> like quite the innocent, "split second" situation
> that you would like to pretend it was.

@ Gonads & Strife:

Lol, that rocks. ;)

Lets get back to basics here.

Why did the cop follow the kids out of the IHOP and stand in front of the Jeep (breaking the rules of his contract with IHOP and in violation of Police S.O.P.)? He is working for IHOP as a security precense only according to the contract he had with IHOP (can be read on one of the previous links).

Why did he block the exit by standing in the middle of the parking lot? When he saw the Jeep coming towards him why didnt he simply get out of the way?

Remember he was diciplined by the Alexandria Police to the highest degree short of being fired, for poor judgement in elevating the situation instead of diffusing the situation.

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Remember he was diciplined by the Alexandria
> Police to the highest degree short of being fired,
> for poor judgement in elevating the situation
> instead of diffusing the situation.


How many times are you going to say this? It was a PR move nothing more. If the department thinks you actually screwed up shooting and killing someone you get fired end of story.

Pancakes and booze? Crazy combo.

Why do the men in blue need to moonlight at IHOP?

hmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Why do the men in blue need to moonlight at IHOP?


This has always felt a little creepy to me - a private business being able to hire a cop in uniform off duty. First saw this in Texas about 20 yrs ago. Doesn't seem like law enforcement should be for sale in that way. If you want security, hire a private security guard, but your financial relationship with an off duty cop should have nothing to do with his interaction with me as a regular citizen - on duty or off.

justice4kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets get back to basics here.
>
> Why did the cop follow the kids out of the IHOP
> and stand in front of the Jeep (breaking the rules
> of his contract with IHOP and in violation of
> Police S.O.P.)? He is working for IHOP as a
> security precense only according to the contract
> he had with IHOP (can be read on one of the
> previous links).
>
> Why did he block the exit by standing in the
> middle of the parking lot? When he saw the Jeep
> coming towards him why didnt he simply get out of
> the way?
>
> Remember he was diciplined by the Alexandria
> Police to the highest degree short of being fired,
> for poor judgement in elevating the situation
> instead of diffusing the situation.


Ok, let's get back to basics here:

Why these damn kids even THINK to wanna steal from IHOP? Who the hell goes into a restaurant without wanting to pay for the services they get? I mean how they hell do you even think that way? Where they raised by wolverines or something?

Why'd they just not pay the bill? I mean they musta had enough cash on them if they drove up in a Jeep? And heck, if they didnt have enough cash, why not just go to one of their homes and make the pancakes?

Why'd they think someone wouldnt be pissed off they were being thieves?
I mean you must be raised to be QUITE an entitled little fuck if you think something like that should slide or whatnot. Heck, why'd would they even WANT to be a thief?

Remember, the cop was NOT fired even though he had poor judgement. Meaning he may have made a mistake, but nothing that was not seen as understandable given the circumstances.

oh puh-lease Wrote:

> This has always felt a little creepy to me - a
> private business being able to hire a cop in
> uniform off duty. First saw this in Texas about
> 20 yrs ago. Doesn't seem like law enforcement
> should be for sale in that way. If you want
> security, hire a private security guard, but your
> financial relationship with an off duty cop should
> have nothing to do with his interaction with me as
> a regular citizen - on duty or off.


Its a way for the cops to make extra money with overtime, and the departments would rather have their guys doing armed security if a place wants it then have guys that may or may not be properly trained to do the job since they know who they hired.

For what its worth the cops almost always dont get directly paid for it. The department gets paid and then gives the cop a percentage of it

All that over time stuff is done through the cop's union, or association in VA.

The cop received the most serious form of discipline short of termination, and later resigned.

Alexandria paid the dead kid's estate over $1,000,000 to settle their claim, from
taxpayer money, not insurance.

Each of the other young people in the car received settlements of undisclosed amounts, reportedly enough to pay their college tuitions.

The charges against the driver were dropped.

The FBI harshly criticized both the officer and Alexandria Police Department procedures and training. Wrongful death and civil rights violation investigations were dropped as part of the settlement.

Legal action by Alexandria against IHOP was dismissed, then appealed and dismissed again.

It's over. Can we move on?

Da Judge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cop received the most serious form of
> discipline short of termination, and later
> resigned.
>
> Alexandria paid the dead kid's estate over
> $1,000,000 to settle their claim, from
> taxpayer money, not insurance.
>
> Each of the other young people in the car received
> settlements of undisclosed amounts, reportedly
> enough to pay their college tuitions.
>
> The charges against the driver were dropped.
>
> The FBI harshly criticized both the officer and
> Alexandria Police Department procedures and
> training. Wrongful death and civil rights
> violation investigations were dropped as part of
> the settlement.
>
> Legal action by Alexandria against IHOP was
> dismissed, then appealed and dismissed again.
>
> It's over. Can we move on?

I hope this is true and Officer Stowe is no longer a Police Officer. Has he ever apologized to the family for shooting and killing their son? Has he ever even acknowledged that he made a mistake in elevating the situation to the point that Aaron Brown was killed by his hand?

These other cops like Pathetic, cannot get past the fact that a kid walked out on a $26 dollar bill, something akin to shoplifting or a speeding ticket (like 5 miles over) and Stowe (assuming he is no longer a Police Officer) HAD to right this terrible wrong; that it was his duty to STOP these kids. BUT the truth is he was not supposed to follow the kids, HE broke the rules! HE elevated the situation to the horrible conclusion. HE SHOOT AND KILLED A KID OVER A $26 dollar IHOP bill. I can get over it when these other police officers acknowledge that Stowe fucked up and killed a kid for literally $26.

Watch some of the youtube links of other cops shooting people and imagine if there was video of this incident and how damning it would be. Shit they punished him anyway and as the above information tells us they got slapped around by every investigating agency that looked at it. Stowe fucked up and didnt follow the rules, Aaron Brown was killed because of it. The police admitted it, paid off the victims and changed their policy.

The Police are never going to apologize for their actions because they didn't do anything wrong. Kind of like how the driver is never going to apologize to the Cop or to his family for attempting to kill him.

If an apology is what you need in order for you to "get over it", then be prepared to live the rest of your life with unresolved issues. No one is going to apologize.

Most of us don't think the Officer did anything wrong. Some of us are glad that the Officer made a stand against thievery, assault, and attempted murder. Most of us are tired of the entitled, "I'm all that matters", attitude of punk-ass, selfish, people today. We're especially tired of spoiled youth who weren't raised to have any concept that the World extends past their own self-centered needs and thoughts, kids that don't take ANYONE else's feelings into consideration or accept any personal responsibility. They didn't consider the poor waiter they stole from, they didn't consider the innocent passerby that they could have struck, they didn't consider the health/safety of the Officer doing his job, and they didn't consider the welfare of their own group when they forced the Officer to defend himself.

No one cares about these punks. They initiated it. They caused it. They asked for it. They got what they were asking for.

Now you have to learn to live with it. The Cop has continued on with his life, so should you.......... If you have too much trouble dealing with the concept, go try to run down a Cop....... You won't have to deal with it for much longer after that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 03:01PM by Taylor.

Aaron Brown would be alive if he had just paid his damn bill AND not try to run over an off duty police office. Stop feeling like you're entitled to do what ever the hell you want without consequences.

... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer Stowe
> had followed his police department's rules," the
> family announced in a statement through their
> attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker
> has announced a new policy...we hope this prevents
> other needless deaths."
>
>
> How about Aaron would not have died if he has paid
> for his meal as does everyone else. This is why
> youth is out of hands nowadays, parents find
> excuses to justify actions that are simply
> unacceptable.

His parents didnt justify anything, a slimbag lawyer did that for them, they are out spending your millions of tax dollars.

shopping spree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His parents didnt justify anything, a slimbag
> lawyer did that for them, they are out spending
> your millions of tax dollars.

+1
that's hilarious - they get to steal from us as well LoLz

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shopping spree Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > His parents didnt justify anything, a slimbag
> > lawyer did that for them, they are out
> spending
> > your millions of tax dollars.
>
> +1
> that's hilarious - they get to steal from us as
> well LoLz

Sure, why not? They raised Aaron and and he behaved in the way that they taught him was acceptable. They obviously didn't teach Aaron not to steal from others. Why should they act any differently about stealing from the rest of us than Aaron did?

Don't worry about them, though. As long as they don't try to kill a Police officer they should be OK.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Police are never going to apologize for their
> actions because they didn't do anything wrong.

The police don't have to apologize. Paying the victim's family $1.1 MILLION speaks louder than any words they could say.

Sounds like a 70s song.... A million dollars means never having to say you're sorry.

Oh yeah, the cop is no longer working in law enforcement. No apology needed.

And Alexandria trying to get money from IHOP and being laughed out of court. No apology needed there.

Nope, once the money was paid, no one needs to apologize.

Dash N Dine is not a cool thing to do.

You cannot put a price on a childs life. He made a mistake. The cop made a mistake.

How about we call it a draw. Nodbody one.

We should gun down j-walkers as well.

Aaron Brown will forever be remembered.


Officer Carl Frederick Stowe Jr. Where are you now? Google and Facebook can't find you.

Aaron Brown will forever be remembered as the douche who got himself killed over some pancakes.

Officer Carl Frederick Stowe Jr. is still living and probably enjoying a large stack right now.

agreed

Bob Dole

really??????? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You cannot put a price on a childs life. He made a
> mistake.

The 18 year old MAN committed multiple crimes - theft, assault with a deadly weapon (the Jeep), DWI, drug possession. Those are not mistakes - they are crimes. If he were black and from DC you'd say lock him up and throw away the key. Since he's white from the burb's he's a 'child' who made a 'mistake'.

That "child" could have killed ME, while I was on my way home, all full of waffles that I paid for.

Fuck that child.

Ding an sich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should gun down j-walkers as well.


Only the ones who try to veer towards police officers and walk over them while smelling of stolen pancakes.

The amazing part of this whole thread is the people who want to excuse everyone for everything they did or will ever do, except the police officer trying to uphold the law.

Lets say the cops are ALWAYS wrong , and will never hesitate to use deadly force.

All the more reason to avoid them.

Avoiding the police as a lifestyle includes doing things such as paying for your waffles.

If you want to be a gangster, just remember you may get shot. If you get blown away by a cop or another gangster,if you're justified or not, you're just as dead.

It's amazing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The amazing part of this whole thread is the
> people who want to excuse everyone for everything
> they did or will ever do, except the police
> officer trying to uphold the law.


+1

It really is amazing. I've never understood these types that come up with every excuse in the book for why the person at fault for criminal behavior should be excused, and why the person who is trying to enforce the law and protect the rest of us should be blamed.

It must be some kind of mental disorder.

It's a disease called Liberalism. Never accept responsibility for anything!

It's amazing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ding an sich Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We should gun down j-walkers as well.
>
>
> Only the ones who try to veer towards police
> officers and walk over them while smelling of
> stolen pancakes.
>
LOL!

The cops tried to blame the kid. They lost that one to the tune of $1.1 Million.

Then they tried to blame IHOP. Lost that one in court also.

In the end, the cops had to pay real money, and change their procedures and training. The Kid? Well, he's still dead, so we'll never know whether he considered hopping in the back seat of that car was worth it in retrospect.

Wow- more incredible posts. I'm starting to think maybe they don't need massive election fraud. They've succeeded in making Americans so stupid they don't need to any more. I'd suggest all the posters on this thread who have inexplicably defended the Barney Fife on roids cop in this case take a long look at the classic flim, "Idiocracy." The message isn't subtle- even some of you should understand it.

Hey, maybe we ought to have the death penalty for those who dine and dash. That would stop it, right? And let's allow cops to barge into our houses at any time, without a warrant. You don't got nothin' to hide, do ya, so why not? In many Third World countries, they cut off the hands of thieves- why not here? That would stop robberies, wouldn't it?

It's sad enough that we now live in a police state. What is even sadder is that the majority of people seem to love it.

Yes, Americans are incredibly stupid. The fact that Obama is prez is living proof of that.

unreals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow- more incredible posts. I'm starting to think
> maybe they don't need massive election fraud.
> They've succeeded in making Americans so stupid
> they don't need to any more. I'd suggest all the
> posters on this thread who have inexplicably
> defended the Barney Fife on roids cop in this case
> take a long look at the classic flim, "Idiocracy."
> The message isn't subtle- even some of you should
> understand it.
>
> Hey, maybe we ought to have the death penalty for
> those who dine and dash. That would stop it,
> right? And let's allow cops to barge into our
> houses at any time, without a warrant. You don't
> got nothin' to hide, do ya, so why not? In many
> Third World countries, they cut off the hands of
> thieves- why not here? That would stop robberies,
> wouldn't it?
>
> It's sad enough that we now live in a police
> state. What is even sadder is that the majority of
> people seem to love it.


What an arrogant ass you portray yourself as . Anyone who doesn't agree with you is now stupid. You throw the term "Police State" around very loosely. Im a middle aged American whose only contact with the police is when I dial 911 and need help. If you obey the laws, none of which are a secret or too unreasonable, you have less that a tenth of one percent chance of even having to speak to a police officer during your lifetime. If you chose to ignore the laws we have, or live your life irresponsibly than you get what you get. Perhaps you should travel to South or Central America to help revise your picture of what a ral police state is. In any profession mistakes can be made, I'm not sure that one was made here, I wasnt there, were you? You dont sell the car because you got a flat tire, your views of the way things are in our country would believe me to believe you need to get out more or find another place to live.

unreals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow- more incredible posts. I'm starting to think
> maybe they don't need massive election fraud.
> They've succeeded in making Americans so stupid
> they don't need to any more. I'd suggest all the
> posters on this thread who have inexplicably
> defended the Barney Fife on roids cop in this case
> take a long look at the classic flim, "Idiocracy."
> The message isn't subtle- even some of you should
> understand it.
>
> Hey, maybe we ought to have the death penalty for
> those who dine and dash. That would stop it,
> right? And let's allow cops to barge into our
> houses at any time, without a warrant. You don't
> got nothin' to hide, do ya, so why not? In many
> Third World countries, they cut off the hands of
> thieves- why not here? That would stop robberies,
> wouldn't it?
>
> It's sad enough that we now live in a police
> state. What is even sadder is that the majority of
> people seem to love it.


So we go from shooting a dine and dash thief who tried to run from the cops to the police barging into our homes without a warrent... Thats a nice stretch unreals. Way to obscure the facts.

IF you break the law and are stupid enough to try to run, it most likely will not end up well for you. That is common sense.

IF you pay for your meal and drive home you will most likely live to see another day of honest living.

IF someone stole from you or broke into your house. YOU would be the first one dialing 911 demanding help from the "police state" you despise so much.

For your sake I hope the "police" show up and try to help you despite your scorn for them.

I am about as far away from being a troublemaker as someone can be. Still, I have managed to have unpleasant encounters with cops. Years ago, I was leaving for work, entering my car in front of my townhouse, and I'd placed a bag of trash on top of the car, as the pickup location was about fifty yards away, directly on the way out. People in our community routinely did this, as a way to save a few moments.

This cop, who was there to check on the teenager next door's latest escapade, pulled in front of my car, jumped out and started screaming at me, "What the hell do you think you're doing?" He would not listen to an explanation, and was anything but reasonable. He ordered me, again shouting, to "get that bag off your car NOW!" Public servant, harrassing homeowner, on his property, for an idiotic, superficial reason.

Another time, I was in court helping out a family member with special needs, who had been assaulted. EVeryone in the court became restless after the judge finally appeared, rustled some papers for about five minutes, then disappeared again. After about thirty more minutes, I politely asked the armed officer standing near the door if he knew what happened to the judge. "He's on break," he told me. I very gently replied that he had only been there for a few minutes, and no work had proceeded. He put his hand on his gun and said, "Get back to your seat." Again, a supposed public servant, who was on a power trip and defending yet another incompetent public servant who was clearly goofing off and not doing his job.

Again, I've never been a troublemaker and have learned not to talk back to copes. I've been given a ticket for an illegal u-turn while attending an Easter Sunrise service in an unfamiliar city, with no clear directions about parking. As a youngster, I got a speeding ticket for going 33 in a 25 mile zone. Another time, I was going about 15 miles over the speed limit, rushing to the hospital to see my dying mother. I explained this to the cop, who never reacted and made me wait the prerequisite 20 minutes or so while he wasted time "checking" my license and registration, then gave me a ticket.

There are lots of other examples I could provide. Sure, there are some good cops, but most of them are ignorant bullies who've been given way too much power, and are granted carte blanche to abuse peaceful citizens. You will never see a you tube video of a roided out cop taking out his rage on a worthy target, like a member of the Bloods or Crips, or Hell's Angels. They are too busy throwing skinny skater kids to the sidewalk or pulling the elderly out of wheelchairs, or tasering almost anybody, as long as they aren't remotely dangerous. Again, you'll never see them get violent on any kind of gang member. On those occasions, they're hiding in the bushes, eating doughnuts.

Saying that things are worse in other countries is a lame argument. Is that what we want- to be slightly better than Third World dictatorships? I bet you guys used that brilliant slogan, "America- love it or leave it!" It's sad to see that so few Americans now have any regard for their own civil liberties.

I havent seen any decrease in my civil liberties at all, sounds like you are just unlucky, sucks to be you. ps dont believe the whole world is like what you see on Youtube

Ditto. My experiences with cops have been mostly positive, like the officer who let me sit with him in the front of his heated car for 1/2 hour in 20 degree weather while we waited for the locksmith to come and de-ice my car's door lock so I could drive home. Just because you personally have had an inordinate number of bad experiences with cops doesn't mean that's the way the world is.

unreals Wrote:
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> There are lots of other examples I could provide.
> Sure, there are some good cops, but most of them
> are ignorant bullies who've been given way too
> much power, and are granted carte blanche to abuse
> peaceful citizens. You will never see a you tube
> video of a roided out cop taking out his rage on a
> worthy target, like a member of the Bloods or
> Crips, or Hell's Angels. They are too busy
> throwing skinny skater kids to the sidewalk or
> pulling the elderly out of wheelchairs, or
> tasering almost anybody, as long as they aren't
> remotely dangerous. Again, you'll never see them
> get violent on any kind of gang member. On those
> occasions, they're hiding in the bushes, eating
> doughnuts.

I think that as our society grows increasingly violent and selfish, you'll find that MOST people are happy to have Police Officers around to help those of us in need of it. Being a Police Officer is dirty, hard, and demanding work, but most of all it's THANKLESS work. Cops deal with the worst elements of the communities we live in and they do it all day, every day. No one calls the Cops when things are GOOD. Consequently, as an Officer, you are bathed in the worst that society has to offer up. You deal with rapes, murders, assaults, etc. But that's not the hard part. The hard part is trying to deal with the sobbing of a rape victim ringing in your ears. The hard part is trying to forget the tears slowly drying on the cheeks of a little child who has just been beaten to death by his Father, or trying to sleep at night as you keep hearing the plaintive screams of a Mother who has seen her child die in front of her eyes.

All day long you are confronted with the monstrousness of what humanity has to offer. You work a job where the very people you try to protect will cheer and clap when you or one of your fellow Officers is wounded or killed. You are constantly on trial in the court of public opinion. Pompous assholes get to sit comfy and safe in their recliners and hold forth on whether you should have been "allowed" to defend your life. If you go "easy" on someone and they end up hurting someone down the road, you'll be crucified for your leniency. Conversely, if you hold a hard line and refuse to "let it slide", then you'll be labeled an "asshole", "power tripper", or worse.

People with absolutely NO EXPERIENCE in the job will scream about every choice you make. When another human being attempts to attack, injure, or even kill you with a gun, car, 2"x4", crowbar, knife, screwdriver, or other weapon, you'll face a law-suit for defending your life. People will expect you to "shoot them in the leg", or arm, or some other equally difficult spot to hit on a quickly moving target. People have seen the movies. They've watched Sgt. Riggs "draw" a smiley-face on a paper target from 50 yards out and they'll expect you to be equally skilled. (One person actually asked why Cops don't just "shoot the guns out of their hands?")

When ever a person attempts to injure or attack you there are only two outcomes. People will laugh at you if you "let" yourself be injured. They'll use your pain and wounding as proof that Cops "ain't all 'dat", or if the attacker is injured or killed in the attack, they will line up to offer excuses for why the aggressor was innocent or should have been excused for their actions, (the Cop should have known that they were drunk, young, stupid, "kids being kids", emotionally troubled, etc.), and they'll call for you to be prosecuted, jailed, even executed for not letting yourself be killed. Everybody LOVES it if you get hurt. Human nature likes to see those "in charge", brought low.

When you have to interact, people will immediately run you an attitude because they don't LIKE being told what to do. They will assume that you're a power-tripping, "roided up", Cop and they will instinctively fight everything you say. No matter how you try to act toward them, in their retelling of the story it will either become about how rude and abusive you were, or if you were "nice" to them, it will be about how "I sure told that Cop off!".

The very people you risk your safety and the safety of your loved ones for will call you "Pig", "Facist", and "Nazi", and then turn around an hour later and ask you to potentially put your life on the line for them.

Despite all of this, Cops continue to do the job. It's not for the "pay", and it's certainly not for all of the "respect". It's because people need to be protected, whether they "deserve" it or not.

Now a little about you. When you post in a thread like this, spouting off at the mouth about how awful the "Pigs" are, and why you don't agree with them, it rings hollow in every one else's ears because we all KNOW that if you EVER needed help, you'd call the Police in a heart-beat. Sure there are Cops who are jerks, just like in EVERY OTHER job. But try to balance their behavior out with the memory of what they constantly deal with. Maybe even have a little understanding.

You sound like one of those people that likes to enjoy the safety and service that our patriotic men and women in the Military provide you, but you ALSO want to still be able to enjoy the opportunity to spit on them in the street and call them "baby-killers", in some misguided attempt to feel superior about yourself.

Tell you what, if you don't like the way Police Officers act then go become one. You can BE the change that you wish to see. Maybe you can set an example of how a Cop "should" act. My guess is that after a year you'll end up with a LOT more respect for Law Enforcement.

.............
Attachments:

Well written, but many are called , few are chosen. I doubt a miserable complainer like unreals would have the skills to resolve any stressful situation, after all, HE is the citizen that makes for a long day in policing.

peacemaker Wrote:
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> Well written, but many are called , few are
> chosen. I doubt a miserable complainer like
> unreals would have the skills to resolve any
> stressful situation, after all, HE is the citizen
> that makes for a long day in policing.

+1

Did you notice how in each of his scenarios, he was NEVER at fault for anything? It was always the bad ol' Policeman who jumped on him for no reason when he was just minding his own business.

If his speeding story is true, then I'm sorry for that, but HOW MANY times do you think a Cop has heard the old, "I'm only speeding because my wife, child, friend, relative, significant other is very sick/dying!"? That's about the oldest and lamest excuse in the book. Then people get all surprised and aggravated when an Officer doesn't immediately say, "Oh my GOSH! I'm SO SORRY I pulled you over! I didn't realize someone you know was SICK! PLEASE, go SPEED AWAY AND RESCUE THEM! I won't bother you anymore! Please forgive me for having stopped you." Lol

I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised by the ignornance being expressed here. After all, this is a web site that features threads devoted to "who is the biggest slut" at various high schools, and grown adults viciously attacking neighbors and members of the community by name.

I have never had to call the police in my life for anything. Period. And even if I did need them, it would unlikely they'd be of any assistance. How could they be? What are the odds any cop would happen to be in my neighborhood if someone broke into my house? Okay, so I call the cops and even if they get there in record time, almost certainly the perps would be gone. So then they'd launch one of their vaunted "investigations," which was best exemplified by the way the D.C. snipers had to call them repeatedly to get them to notice the note they tacked to a tree at one of the crime scenes. Great detective skills they have. Real life is 180 degrees removed from CSI and similar fantasies.

While cops are useless at solving real crimes, and it's logistically unfair to expect them to be anywhere to stop them, they are great at handing out tickets. That's their primary reason for existence- to hassle peaceful, well meaning drivers by hiding behind bushes, setting up speed traps, etc. In all fairness, they are encouraged to do this by management, who emphasize revenue collection over anything else.

I've never committed an act of violence in my life. I've never been in an accident in over 35 years of driving. I respect everyone and treat all others decently. And yet, this occupying army of cops has managed to interact with me far too often over nothing. If none of you are outraged over the trash bag story, again I submit you deserve the police state you've been given. I guess you think I was "wrong" in that situation. And anyone who would make up a story about their mother dying...why would that even enter someone's mind when a cop stops them?

Maybe I just have a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Don't know- live in a very wealthy county, always have, and hang around people like me, who have never caused trouble anywhere. As a very young guy, some drunk ex-military officer pulled a gun on me when I was walking out of a party next door. He said he was "intimidated" by me whan I asked what was going on (he and a friend of mine were arguing). He waved that gun at me and told us to leave NOW (kind of like a cop). We went to the local police station, who asked us if we'd been drinking. They had no interest in the guy who pulled the gun on me. Guess I was lucky they didn't arrest us for reporting someone had threatened us.

Law enforcement officers used to be called peace officers. That's what their function should be- keeping the peace and making the real troublemakers in every community behave. Instead, they are tasked with "enforcing" an ever increasing number of unconstitutional and unnecessary draconian laws, and concentrate on "enforcing" them on those citizens who don't represent a threat and will not cause them to put their own lives in danger. It takes a lot more courage to get tough with a dangerous gang member than it does to bully a peaceful citizen.

unreals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised by the
> ignornance being expressed here. After all, this
> is a web site that features threads devoted to
> "who is the biggest slut" at various high schools,
> and grown adults viciously attacking neighbors and
> members of the community by name.
>
> I have never had to call the police in my life for
> anything. Period. And even if I did need them, it
> would unlikely they'd be of any assistance. How
> could they be? What are the odds any cop would
> happen to be in my neighborhood if someone broke
> into my house? Okay, so I call the cops and even
> if they get there in record time, almost certainly
> the perps would be gone. So then they'd launch one
> of their vaunted "investigations," which was best
> exemplified by the way the D.C. snipers had to
> call them repeatedly to get them to notice the
> note they tacked to a tree at one of the crime
> scenes. Great detective skills they have. Real
> life is 180 degrees removed from CSI and similar
> fantasies.
>
> While cops are useless at solving real crimes, and
> it's logistically unfair to expect them to be
> anywhere to stop them, they are great at handing
> out tickets. That's their primary reason for
> existence- to hassle peaceful, well meaning
> drivers by hiding behind bushes, setting up speed
> traps, etc. In all fairness, they are encouraged
> to do this by management, who emphasize revenue
> collection over anything else.
>
> I've never committed an act of violence in my
> life. I've never been in an accident in over 35
> years of driving. I respect everyone and treat all
> others decently. And yet, this occupying army of
> cops has managed to interact with me far too often
> over nothing. If none of you are outraged over the
> trash bag story, again I submit you deserve the
> police state you've been given. I guess you think
> I was "wrong" in that situation. And anyone who
> would make up a story about their mother
> dying...why would that even enter someone's mind
> when a cop stops them?
>
> Maybe I just have a knack for being in the wrong
> place at the wrong time. Don't know- live in a
> very wealthy county, always have, and hang around
> people like me, who have never caused trouble
> anywhere. As a very young guy, some drunk
> ex-military officer pulled a gun on me when I was
> walking out of a party next door. He said he was
> "intimidated" by me whan I asked what was going on
> (he and a friend of mine were arguing). He waved
> that gun at me and told us to leave NOW (kind of
> like a cop). We went to the local police station,
> who asked us if we'd been drinking. They had no
> interest in the guy who pulled the gun on me.
> Guess I was lucky they didn't arrest us for
> reporting someone had threatened us.
>
> Law enforcement officers used to be called peace
> officers. That's what their function should be-
> keeping the peace and making the real
> troublemakers in every community behave. Instead,
> they are tasked with "enforcing" an ever
> increasing number of unconstitutional and
> unnecessary draconian laws, and concentrate on
> "enforcing" them on those citizens who don't
> represent a threat and will not cause them to put
> their own lives in danger. It takes a lot more
> courage to get tough with a dangerous gang member
> than it does to bully a peaceful citizen.

How does the Officer know that you're a "peaceful citizen"? Does he know you personally? Is he just supposed to realize it from the way you dress?

You're quite the arm-chair quarterback. You've stated that Cops are "useless" at solving crimes. You've referred to them as cowards, and expressed your opinion that they could never be of assistance in the event of a crime. Yet despite your obvious distaste for Officers of the Law, you expect us to believe that in every one of your stories you were polite, well mannered, and pleasant, and that the Cop was rude to you for NO REASON. What a laugh.

By your OWN WORDS, you approached an Officer INSIDE A COURTROOM and proceeded to lecture him about how long the Judge was taking and how things weren't flowing along at the pace that YOU thought they should be! Then you act all aggrieved by the Cop's response to you. As if he should have said, "You're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, Mr. Citizen. I'm going to go give that Judge a stern lecture about wasting your valuable time. Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention!"

The funniest part of what you wrote is that you deride and criticize this board and its posters for "attacking members of the community", when you're here attacking those men and women who risk their lives to protect the community.

I'm glad that you've never had to call the Police and I hope you never do. But the fact is that if you did need them, even if I showed them what you wrote about them and how you express your disdain for them, they would STILL come and put their safety on the line for you anyway. That's the kind of people they are, and hat gives them 10 times the personal character you'll ever have.

Risk their lives? What a laugh! A few years ago, Fairfax County went into shock when the FIRST police officers in the history of the county were killed on duty. Fairfax County is not a dangerous area. Yes, cops in areas like southeast D.C. or PG county deal with the dregs of community and their lives are most definitely in danger simply by working there. That's simply not the case here. I am like most people in this county- not confrontational and not prone to violent or antisocial behavior. The cops have nothing to fear from people like me.

I did not "lecture" the cop in the courtroom. I politely asked him if he knew what happened to the judge. The guy disappeared after five minutes! Everyone in the court was curious (and getting frustrated). Because I questioned one guy who works for ME about where another guy who works for ME was (since he clearly didn't appear to be doing his job), his response should be to pat his gun in a threatening manner? Odds are you would support his right to shoot a big mouth like me for something like that, huh? And, hey, if I didn't get all uppity and ask this unapproachable lord a question, well then I wouldn't have got all shot up, would I?

Look, I wouldn't ever want to be a cop. They don't make that much money, and even in a county like ours, the job is more dangerous than the vast majority of occupations. I don't envy them having to deal with the thugs out there. However, my point is that in this area, there aren't many thugs and most cops do all they can to avoid the ones that are out there. I understand them being frustrated in having a thankless job, but that's no reason to be consistently unreasonable and beligerant and taking it out on citizens like me, who are no threat to anyone in the community.

Look at you tube- everyday you can see new examples of our police state in action. These guys are out of control everywhere- using their tasers as weapons on the elderly, the disabled and the very young. Never, though, on career criminal, gangsta types. The evidence is undeniable. Sadly, at this point, our society would be better off without any police at all. They are doing way more harm than good to the population.

unreals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I questioned one guy who works for ME about where another guy who works for
> ME was (since he clearly didn't appear to be doing
> his job).

Ahhhhh......... and in this one, single, illuminating sentence, I think we've discovered the root of all of your past problems when dealing personally with Police Officers.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> unreals Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Cops deal with the worst
> elements of the communities we live in and they do
> it all day, every day. No one calls the Cops when
> things are GOOD. Consequently, as an Officer, you
> are bathed in the worst that society has to offer
> up. You deal with rapes, murders, assaults, etc.
> But that's not the hard part. The hard part is
> trying to deal with the sobbing of a rape victim
> ringing in your ears. The hard part is trying to
> forget the tears slowly drying on the cheeks of a
> little child who has just been beaten to death by
> his Father, or trying to sleep at night as you
> keep hearing the plaintive screams of a Mother who
> has seen her child die in front of her eyes.
>

>
After the hard part is over, I like to give out a few radar tickets for 10 over.

Someone has to pay for all my first responding.

Unreals- always the victim and it absolutely has to be somebody else's fault for my problem..

unreals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised by the
> ignornance being expressed here.


You could have stopped typing after this....

unreals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised by the
> ignornance being expressed here.


It is pretty embarrassing that unreals is trying to accuse everyone else of ignorance, and then can't even spell the word correctly. "IgnorNance", lol.

He's working as head chef at Krispy Kreme. Thats even too good for him.

Maybe if the police departments didn't hire psyco's and give them guns.......