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Mason or UVA
Posted by: Taz ()
Date: February 01, 2012 05:36PM

Thinking about going to Mason or UVA, does Mason compare academically to UVA and does anyone know about job prospects at both schools

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Ralph Pootawn ()
Date: February 01, 2012 05:52PM

No, it doesn't, and Charlottesville is so much cooler than Fairfax.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Rathskeller 12 ()
Date: February 01, 2012 06:07PM

Have a full-paid scholarship?... Go to UVA. Have to pay your own way for higher education?... consider GMU for lower tuition. Both schools are nice and each have wonderful undergrad and grad programs. Ultimately depends on your academic performance. A 4.0 from either will be of great assistance on your first interview after graduating. Study hard and best wishes for the future.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: UVA Grad ()
Date: February 01, 2012 06:18PM

UVa's in state tuition is lower than GMU's, and with the AccessUVA program, many students are able to go to school with out borrowing money.

UVa is a World Class University, GMU has some strong points, like their fine arts program and computer science, but is not in the same league as UVa.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Rathskeller 12 ()
Date: February 01, 2012 06:31PM

Agree with UVA Grad. If you are a local FFX resident and would commute to GMU?... that might still be the best monetary choice. For an academic selection- UVA is better. Again, both schools are worthy of providing an excellent education. Tough choices for a high school student planning their future and you won't go wrong with choosing, either.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Wowza ()
Date: February 01, 2012 06:37PM

Is that for real? I know GMU has greatly improved, but back in the day, I think it was more comparable to NoVa.

Is it really on par with UVA these days academically?

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: yes ()
Date: February 01, 2012 06:49PM

Wowza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that for real? I know GMU has greatly improved,
> but back in the day, I think it was more
> comparable to NoVa.
>
> Is it really on par with UVA these days
> academically?


It all depends on the department. Some departments rank better than UVAs, others UVA ranks higher.

But Mason is MUCH closer to UVA than to NOVA and is really heading to be on par with UVA

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: dbs ()
Date: February 01, 2012 06:50PM

Wowza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that for real? I know GMU has greatly improved,
> but back in the day, I think it was more
> comparable to NoVa.

and back in the day nova was considered subschool 7.

mason has never been comparable with nova; it is beyond comparison because they're apples and oranges. sure, nova might get you some classes on the cheap, but you'll have to transfer if you want to get your bachelor's degree. that's the way it is now and that's the way it always has been.

as for the original poster, the answer, like many in life, is: It depends. what are your plans after graduating? do both schools have the programs you want to study? do you want to see your team's football team on television? there are many factors that you'll have to consider.

as a mason alum, the one thing i found lacking at mason was the lack of community...unless you get involved in activities. not sure if that's anywhere, but that's one thing i hear many folks say about mason (then and now).

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: wowza ()
Date: February 01, 2012 06:59PM

dbs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wowza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is that for real? I know GMU has greatly
> improved,
> > but back in the day, I think it was more
> > comparable to NoVa.
>
> and back in the day nova was considered subschool
> 7.
>
> mason has never been comparable with nova; it is
> beyond comparison because they're apples and
> oranges. sure, nova might get you some classes on
> the cheap, but you'll have to transfer if you want
> to get your bachelor's degree. that's the way it
> is now and that's the way it always has been.
>
> as for the original poster, the answer, like many
> in life, is: It depends. what are your plans
> after graduating? do both schools have the
> programs you want to study? do you want to see
> your team's football team on television? there
> are many factors that you'll have to consider.
>
> as a mason alum, the one thing i found lacking at
> mason was the lack of community...unless you get
> involved in activities. not sure if that's
> anywhere, but that's one thing i hear many folks
> say about mason (then and now).


You're right, probably not exactly comparable. However, and I can only speak anecdotally to this point, is that for a few of my academically challenged friends from high school, they actually chose NoVa over Mason, 'cause either way, they were only go to go there for a year or two before moving on to Radford or something like that. NoVa was cheaper and more flexible with classes, I remember them saying.

Wow...Mason comparable to UVa? I'll have to check the ol' US news ranking on that one.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: yes ()
Date: February 01, 2012 07:19PM

wowza Wrote:

> You're right, probably not exactly comparable.
> However, and I can only speak anecdotally to this
> point, is that for a few of my academically
> challenged friends from high school, they actually
> chose NoVa over Mason, 'cause either way, they
> were only go to go there for a year or two before
> moving on to Radford or something like that. NoVa
> was cheaper and more flexible with classes, I
> remember them saying.
>
> Wow...Mason comparable to UVa? I'll have to check
> the ol' US news ranking on that one.

If their end goal was to just end up at Radford or something like that NOVA was the easier route to take and cheaper.

As with any college it all depends on the program within the school for what school is better. Overall Mason will always be hurt in rankings for not having a college town atmosphere like a lot of the other schools which is the biggest down fall for it, but its days of being a fall back school are long gone. Theres no way around it that the campus life isnt the best and the biggest things hurting it now in rankings dont have to do with academics.

Only 52 percent of applicants got accepted and they had an average of a 3.7 high school gpa. UVA is still a little more selective, but they also get more applications from people with 0 shot of getting in who were just taking a long shot at it, but Mason is closing the gap on them for sure.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: get real ()
Date: February 01, 2012 07:54PM

Taz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thinking about going to Mason or UVA, does Mason
> compare academically to UVA and does anyone know
> about job prospects at both schools

If you are dim enough to ask this question, you probably won't get accepted at UVA.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Mason ()
Date: February 01, 2012 08:08PM

Go to Mason, Thomas Jefferson had slaves and the university won't acknowledge its past.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: FlagShipDan ()
Date: February 01, 2012 08:25PM

George Mason also had slaves. Anyhow, anyone who actually got into both schools would know the answer to this question. Gee, maybe I should choose the commuter school over the world class university. Get real. The OP is a troll.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: mod squad ()
Date: February 01, 2012 08:26PM

All but one or two of the posts in this thread were posted from the same IP adress. FYI!

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: February 01, 2012 09:38PM

I thought the application deadline had passed already.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: TonyBuck ()
Date: February 01, 2012 11:16PM

GMU all the way!!!

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Rah Rah ()
Date: February 01, 2012 11:34PM

Today's first day to sign up for UVA football scholarship.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Employer ()
Date: February 02, 2012 12:23AM

I'd hire a UVA grad over a GMU grad almost any day.
In Virginia, the hierarchy is

Tier 1:
UVA, W&M, W&L

Tier 2
VPI, VMI, Hampden-Sydney, U of Richmond

Tier 3
JMU, GMU, Christopher newport

Tier 4
VCU, ODU, radford, Mary Wash, and many other small schools - Lynchburg, Randolph macon, Roanoke,

Tier 5
VSU, Norfolk State, NoVa CC, any other community college

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Hilo ()
Date: February 02, 2012 12:39AM

Mason has two Nobel Prize recipients, more than any other university in Virginia. It's stock has definitely risen. I believe it's ranked higher than JMU in the latest US News rankings

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: LolXz ()
Date: February 02, 2012 12:45AM

U of Richmond? Lol, it's not even ranked in US News top 500 universities. I would put it below Radford

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: snowdenscold ()
Date: February 02, 2012 12:53AM

LolXz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> U of Richmond? Lol, it's not even ranked in US
> News top 500 universities. I would put it below
> Radford


You sure? I don't have the info in front of me, but I've always heard and associated it with being a decent school - maybe you missed it or they don't report the required data or something.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: maybe ()
Date: February 02, 2012 02:14AM

snowdenscold Wrote:

>
> You sure? I don't have the info in front of me,
> but I've always heard and associated it with being
> a decent school - maybe you missed it or they
> don't report the required data or something.


Its ranked 27 for liberal arts colleges, where that translates into all university rankings I dont know

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: February 02, 2012 02:15AM

Employer, I would love to know your criteria. Below the first tier I would dispute most of your rankings. My top three tiers would be broken down as follows:

First Tier: UVa, W&M, W&L
Second Tier: Richmond, VT
Third Tier: JMU, GMU

However even these would be highly deceptive. For example the three top tier schools largely owe their status to the reputation of their liberal arts and/or graduate programs. In terms of business schools Richmond and JMU are IMO better than W&L and Tech, and I'm not sure if W&M, W&L, Richmond or JMU even have engineering programs. Further while I wouldn't put VMI above any of my top 7, it has a very strong alumni network that can give its graduates a leg up in the job market. And GMU's commuter school legacy which I see as a negative could be an attraction to many NoVa students. So depending on what you are looking for in a college the tiers might be of little interest to you.

Now Mr. Pootawn seriously? Charlottesvile cool?

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 02, 2012 07:21AM

UVA is more expensive than Mason when you compare tuition and fees.

Your GPA and degree is more important than the school, tier assessments above aside.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Harmmie ()
Date: February 02, 2012 10:18AM

GMU does not compare to U Va, they would like you to think so tho, it is slightly better than NOVA.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: UVa Guy Friend ()
Date: February 02, 2012 10:26AM

Sorry, W&L is not in the same league with UVa, or W&M for that matter. It's a good school, don't get me wrong, but it's tiny with limited offerings and resources.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: not sure ()
Date: February 02, 2012 09:05PM

I work with attorneys. Not all from UVa are great. Smart maybe, but lazy. Latest news is that there are 5 jobs for every 100 lawyer grads and salary isn't enough to pay off loans.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: King ()
Date: February 02, 2012 09:17PM

Employer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd hire a UVA grad over a GMU grad almost any
> day.
> In Virginia, the hierarchy is
>
> Tier 1:
> UVA, W&M, W&L
>
> Tier 2
> VPI, VMI, Hampden-Sydney, U of Richmond
>
> Tier 3
> JMU, GMU, Christopher newport
>
> Tier 4
> VCU, ODU, radford, Mary Wash, and many other small
> schools - Lynchburg, Randolph macon, Roanoke,
>
> Tier 5
> VSU, Norfolk State, NoVa CC, any other community
> college

How did you pick these? Roll dice? U of R, Hampton-Sydney, Christopher Newport?

VCU has a good medical school, Old Dominion's Nursing and Oceanography schools are nationally ranked.

UVA way out ranks GMU. I'd put William and Mary in the third tier. The school has gone down hill.

Hampton-Sydney, Christopher Newport, Radford, Norfolk State are on the same level.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Employer ()
Date: February 02, 2012 09:33PM

W&M best school in the state. UVA second. VT third. GMU fourth. Obviously some of you commenting know absolutely nothing about these schools. VCU above W&M? Are you insane? Let me break it down for you all even more:

W&M-Hardest working kids with good to great grades, very well rounded
UVA-Kids with great grades, but little else
VT-Lots of legacy, tech people
GMU-Kids with good grades, pretty well rounded
VCU-Kids with money, decent grades, definately not the brightest
Radford-Kids who had decent/average grades

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: wrong question ()
Date: February 02, 2012 10:49PM

I think the original poster is asking the wrong question. Both in-state tuitions are remarkably cheap and are a good deal. Both places can be done with only modest debt. The best place is the school that a student can get the most out of.

The thing about schools like UVa, GMU, and W & M is that by and large they use the same textbooks, and when it comes to professors, well, the prestige places may fob you off to grad students. So what matters is an assessment of the school's resources and the ability of the student to fully utilize those resources. This very question eliminates from consideration those who go to school to play Animal House. Good luck with that - you can do that anywhere, especially if gullible parents can be made to pay.

Ranking and prestige matter, but mostly because a great number of richer perspective employers show up at a Uva as compared to GMU. But that certainly doesn't apply to all fields, and should not be dispositive. If one really wanted to be a CPA, GMU may be the better practical choice, especially when a student with high accounting grades likely can get work experience in the area while in school - an invaluable thing. High CPA grades at GMU with high prospects to quickly pass the exams? That person is in good shape.

The thing about UVa and W&M and Tech (in the engineering fields) is that you will be going to school with very bright and intense people. Learning to compete with them is a valuable thing and a confidence booster in the so-called real world. That is the number one intangible factor with highly competitive schools. Is it worth it? I am not so sure. But the downside is there too. One is better off to be in the top 20% of the class in a practical, career oriented major at JMU than struggling in the bottom third at W & M in a major chosen mostly to salvage a grade point. This doesn't mean that the difference between JMU and W & M is vast, but no one should underestimate the rigor of W & M and the fact that a few small breaks going against you can put you in a hole academically. Go where you will think you can best succeed.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: wut? ()
Date: February 02, 2012 11:29PM

UVa Guy Friend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, W&L is not in the same league with UVa, or
> W&M for that matter. It's a good school, don't get
> me wrong, but it's tiny with limited offerings and
> resources.

Gonna have to disagree with you. Its one of the most selective liberal arts schools in the country and its resources are massive. In fact, its GPA and SAT selectivity profile is higher than for UVA...

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: a non moron ()
Date: February 03, 2012 12:28AM

Disclaimer: I don't know your personal circumstances

If money is not an issue, the fact that you are even considering GMU over UVA is pathetic.

That is all.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Date: February 03, 2012 04:42AM

+1

I cannot think of any instance where GMU is better academically than UVA. They schools are not in the same class. People apply to UVA and then GMU as a "safety" school; not the other way around.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Bonfire of the vans ()
Date: February 03, 2012 09:12AM

As I understand it, UVa is the only school in the state that Wall Street firms recruite actively.

I know people have greatly varying opinions of Wall Street these days, but it does provide a pretty good indication of where employers think schools are in the state.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: open eyez ()
Date: February 03, 2012 09:20AM

+1
UVa's reputation far exceeds GMason. Thus, your job prospects would be so much wider. That alone is worth the extra cost.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Chiming In ()
Date: February 03, 2012 09:29AM

I didn't go to any Virginia university, so I can speak from an "outsider" point of view.

UVa definitely has a better overall reputation. That is worth something. GMU doesn't suck, but it isn't UVa. The only other school I'd consider reputation-wise to UVa (for in-state tuition) would be W&M or Tech if you were going to major in one of Tech's strong suits.

UVa's alumni network seems a lot stronger. I get the impression that UVa grads feel they are part of a community. If a UVa grad were to be interviewing you for a job, I feel like they would prefer you to another graduate. I don't see that with GMU grads. In my experience, the only state school alumni network that compares would be VT's.

If you can swing the extra cost (not sure how much it would be), I also think going away has some value, especially in a college town like Charlottesville. You'll have some great experiences.

With that said though, there is a lot of value in not having a crushing debt to deal with when you graduate. If I had the monthly loan payments some of my friends had, I don't know how I would have fed myself after paying rent in this area.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Wut? ()
Date: February 03, 2012 09:41AM

Bonfire of the vans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I understand it, UVa is the only school in the
> state that Wall Street firms recruite actively.
>
> I know people have greatly varying opinions of
> Wall Street these days, but it does provide a
> pretty good indication of where employers think
> schools are in the state.


They recruit at W&L too. When I was there, PriceWaterhouse, Coopers and Lybrand, Bear Stearns, KPMG, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, and BofA all recruited from Commerce School students.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Bonfire of the vans ()
Date: February 03, 2012 09:42AM

Wut? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bonfire of the vans Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As I understand it, UVa is the only school in
> the
> > state that Wall Street firms recruite actively.
> >
> > I know people have greatly varying opinions of
> > Wall Street these days, but it does provide a
> > pretty good indication of where employers think
> > schools are in the state.
>
>
> They recruit at W&L too. When I was there,
> PriceWaterhouse, Coopers and Lybrand, Bear
> Stearns, KPMG, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, and BofA
> all recruited from Commerce School students.


Sorry, I meant to say on recruit on the same level as the Ivy's...

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Wut? ()
Date: February 03, 2012 09:46AM

Meh, the recruitment level was quite high. Especially while Bill Johnston was president of the NYSE in 1996 or thereabouts (and continuing thereafter).

Bill Johnston was a C-School grad.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: -OMG- ()
Date: February 03, 2012 10:15AM

Why is this thread even reaching this length?

Fact:
UVA is one of the best best state Universities in America - along with Michigan, UCLA, Berkeley, and maybe UNC Chapel Hill (or William and Mary).

GMU is a second rate state school that is virtually unknown outside of the mid-atlantic.

UVA and GMU should not be even contemplated in the same sentence but for the fact that both schools are situated within the Commonwealth of Virginia.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Radidum ()
Date: February 03, 2012 10:40AM

-OMG- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> UVA and GMU should not be even contemplated in the
> same sentence but for the fact that both schools
> are situated within the Commonwealth of Virginia.

+1

Agreed, George Mason is a commuter school. The only reason someone would recognized George Mason outside of Northern Virginia would be because the basketball team went the NCAA final four a couple years ago. Mason does even have a football team.

I'd rank James Madison and Old Dominion over George Mason.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: krumpet ()
Date: February 03, 2012 11:10AM

Go to Mason. Save yourself 10K/year in boarding costs by living at home. Co-op/intern at one of the many fine Northern VA businesses that have such a program. You'll almost certainly be guaranteed a job after graduation.

Then, get your Master's degree using the education benefits at said Northern VA business.

You'll be way ahead of your UVA counterparts.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: snowdenscold ()
Date: February 03, 2012 12:20PM

With the amount of dorms recently built (and probably more coming), GMU is becoming less and less a commuter school. I'd be curious to see what % of students live on campus today vs. 15 years ago.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: aaaahhhh ()
Date: February 03, 2012 01:17PM

George Mason has 2 Nobel Prize winners (both in economics)
UVA has 1 Nobel Prize winner
VTech has 1 Nobel Prize winner
Georgetown has 1 Nobel Prize winner
VMI has 1 Nobel Prize winner
VCU has 1 Nobel Prize winner
William & Mary has 0 Nobel Prize winners
James Madison has 0 Nobel Prize winners
Radford has 0 Nobel Prize winners
Washington Lee has 0 Nobel Prize winners
University of Richmond has 0 Nobel Prize winners
Hampden-Sydney has 0 Nobel Prize winners
Christopher Newport has 0 Nobel Prize winners
VSU has 0 Nobel Prize winners
Mary Wash has 0 Nobel Prize winners
Norfolk has 0 Nobel Prize winners

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: V the renegade ()
Date: February 03, 2012 01:40PM

UVA, VT, GMU, W&M, JMU, VCU, W&L are the good VA schools. What the f is Christopher Newport and Hampden-Sydney?!! You might as well go to Everest or Devry.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: stupid comment ()
Date: February 03, 2012 01:56PM

Radidum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -OMG- Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > UVA and GMU should not be even contemplated in
> the
> > same sentence but for the fact that both
> schools
> > are situated within the Commonwealth of
> Virginia.
>
> +1
>
> Agreed, George Mason is a commuter school. The
> only reason someone would recognized George Mason
> outside of Northern Virginia would be because the
> basketball team went the NCAA final four a couple
> years ago. Mason does even have a football team.
>
> I'd rank James Madison and Old Dominion over
> George Mason.

Because having a football team has so much to do with education............

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Missing the Point ()
Date: February 03, 2012 03:13PM

It's all about what you do at college. Connections made, grades, community service, etc. UVA would generally allow you to make more connections, as it is more widely known. Even though Mason is closer to D.C., UVA is very well known in the area. Go to where you feel most comfortable, the bigger name school is not always the right choice. Some people like bigger schools, with many things to do, organizations to join, etc. Others need a smaller school. Don't let anyone else decide where you should go.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: narrow minds ()
Date: February 03, 2012 08:38PM

This conversation is narrowly focused. First of all, most people from around here don't want to work on wall street so who cares if wall street is recruiting. Most Fx Co suburbanites could not handle NYC life. You have to make a lot of money to live in NYC or in a nice outer suburb and you will face at least an hour commute into the city. Many people don't find this lifestyle their first choice as far as quality of life goes.

The insistence that UVA is the best for everyone is a narrow view. It is like saying that only TJHS is worth going to and you won't be successful if you don't graduate from there. Even if you get admitted to TJ, many kids don't want to travel an hour on the bus each way every day.

The insistence that everyone must attend UVA, WM or VT or end up a nobody is like saying if you don't live in McLean, Great Falls or Clifton, you are a loser.

Maybe the top 10% of each graduating class of each high school goes to one of those three schools. The next 40% fill in the other universities and they are able to find successful careers. Furthermore, you can graduate from one of the so called top three and still be unemployed if you pick a major that is not marketable.

GMU is full of professionals who are seeking a higher degree while working and/or raising families. To say that it is a commuter school may be true but it is not necessarily a negative statement. Anyone who works hard in their profession can find success.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Mason undergrad ()
Date: February 04, 2012 11:50AM

narrow minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This conversation is narrowly focused. First of
> all, most people from around here don't want to
> work on wall street so who cares if wall street is
> recruiting. Most Fx Co suburbanites could not
> handle NYC life. You have to make a lot of money
> to live in NYC or in a nice outer suburb and you
> will face at least an hour commute into the city.
> Many people don't find this lifestyle their first
> choice as far as quality of life goes.
>
> The insistence that UVA is the best for everyone
> is a narrow view. It is like saying that only TJHS
> is worth going to and you won't be successful if
> you don't graduate from there. Even if you get
> admitted to TJ, many kids don't want to travel an
> hour on the bus each way every day.
>
> The insistence that everyone must attend UVA, WM
> or VT or end up a nobody is like saying if you
> don't live in McLean, Great Falls or Clifton, you
> are a loser.
>
> Maybe the top 10% of each graduating class of each
> high school goes to one of those three schools.
> The next 40% fill in the other universities and
> they are able to find successful careers.
> Furthermore, you can graduate from one of the so
> called top three and still be unemployed if you
> pick a major that is not marketable.
>
> GMU is full of professionals who are seeking a
> higher degree while working and/or raising
> families. To say that it is a commuter school may
> be true but it is not necessarily a negative
> statement. Anyone who works hard in their
> profession can find success.

Agree with most of what you said, but I don't see many students over 23 on campus. I'm a Mason student. It could be different at the Arlington or PWC campus.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: no sirreee ()
Date: February 04, 2012 07:24PM

narrow minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This conversation is narrowly focused. First of
> all, most people from around here don't want to
> work on wall street so who cares if wall street is
> recruiting. Most Fx Co suburbanites could not
> handle NYC life. You have to make a lot of money
> to live in NYC or in a nice outer suburb and you
> will face at least an hour commute into the city.
> Many people don't find this lifestyle their first
> choice as far as quality of life goes.
>
> The insistence that UVA is the best for everyone
> is a narrow view. It is like saying that only TJHS
> is worth going to and you won't be successful if
> you don't graduate from there. Even if you get
> admitted to TJ, many kids don't want to travel an
> hour on the bus each way every day.
>
> The insistence that everyone must attend UVA, WM
> or VT or end up a nobody is like saying if you
> don't live in McLean, Great Falls or Clifton, you
> are a loser.
>
> Maybe the top 10% of each graduating class of each
> high school goes to one of those three schools.
> The next 40% fill in the other universities and
> they are able to find successful careers.
> Furthermore, you can graduate from one of the so
> called top three and still be unemployed if you
> pick a major that is not marketable.
>
> GMU is full of professionals who are seeking a
> higher degree while working and/or raising
> families. To say that it is a commuter school may
> be true but it is not necessarily a negative
> statement. Anyone who works hard in their
> profession can find success.


Where the conversation deals with academics, it is not narrowly focused one bit relative to the query by the OP.

If we want to bring in other issues, like happy time and what not, probably need to start another thread.

UVa is vastly superior to an improving GMU as it relates to academics.

Would strongly suggest that "job prospects" logically are superior at UVa as well.

This may or may not change in the future, but for now and the past, that is the way it is.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: view ()
Date: February 04, 2012 10:42PM

sorry, can't agree with you about the "job prospects" comment. we have fewer uva employees than any other. we have an mit employee. most everyone else is from a state school, either in state or out of state, no one is obsessed with who graduated from which va school.

job opportunities are open to the best candidate - academics is important but it is factored with aptitude, personality, ability to learn, ability to retain, short learning curve, ability to work on a team and independently. we have not hired academically gifted students because they are arrogant and do not have initative to find a solution if it isn't handed to them in a tidy package. another office canned a vt grad for being above it and leaving work to go to the mall. offices are short handed and they need people with broad, resourceful skills. we don't need students who have been placed on pedestals.

can't tell if some of the posters are uva alumni. if so, why are you so insecure and feel the need to constantly brag about the school? if your school is so superior, why can't you be humble and encourage a gmu student?

to the mason student - did not mean to offend you - have the utmost respect for gmu. good luck and congratulations to you for picking a great school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: hPVbC ()
Date: February 04, 2012 11:04PM

As an out-of-stater who has a more international perspective, I'd say that a back-of-the napkin rating is:

1) UVA & W&M
2) VaTech & GMU
3) Everything else.

GMU has greatly improved. Some programs are better than UVA, some are less.

- Washington & Lee. Seriously?
- University of Richmond? It is as well known as Christpher Newport (i.e. who?)
- VCU: "What is a 'commonwealth'"?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: don't get angry, just the facts ()
Date: February 05, 2012 10:58AM

view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sorry, can't agree with you about the "job
> prospects" comment. we have fewer uva employees
> than any other. we have an mit employee. most
> everyone else is from a state school, either in
> state or out of state, no one is obsessed with who
> graduated from which va school.
>
> job opportunities are open to the best candidate -
> academics is important but it is factored with
> aptitude, personality, ability to learn, ability
> to retain, short learning curve, ability to work
> on a team and independently. we have not hired
> academically gifted students because they are
> arrogant and do not have initative to find a
> solution if it isn't handed to them in a tidy
> package. another office canned a vt grad for being
> above it and leaving work to go to the mall.
> offices are short handed and they need people with
> broad, resourceful skills. we don't need students
> who have been placed on pedestals.
>
> can't tell if some of the posters are uva alumni.
> if so, why are you so insecure and feel the need
> to constantly brag about the school? if your
> school is so superior, why can't you be humble and
> encourage a gmu student?
>
> to the mason student - did not mean to offend you
> - have the utmost respect for gmu. good luck and
> congratulations to you for picking a great school.


This is one of those instances where general statements serve better than specific, anecdtotal references. Sure, we all know some superstar that kicks ass in their career, but came from a small college with a less than stellar academic reputation, and we can probably tell quite a few stories about some slack ass loser with an Ivy League background.

Perhaps this notion is best summed up by something a recruiter once told me-it's not so much what you know, or even who you know. It is the fact that a degree from a highly competitive university provides a pedigree that strongly suggests that a job candidate has been able to prove themselves academically and otherwise to not only get into a more selective school, but to then compete with a higher caliber of student in order to graduate. This is true when hiring undergrads, and even more so when evaluating grad students, esp. law students and MBA students. There, it's not so much the idea that you might learn more at say, a "better" MBA program, but the fact that it takes more for a candidate to not only get in, but to compete, and thrive, at a higher level if they graduate from a more selective school than their counterpart who goes to a lesser school. Yes, there can be (and is) some separation, and making up for lost ground as one progresses through their career, but for the most part, a recruiter will tend towards somebody from a more selective school than somebody from a lesser school, even though the person from the lesser school might have slightly, or even significantly, better stats. And, they are statistically justified in doing so, when large numbers of recruits are evaluated...not just one guy here, and another guy there. Over a long term, recruits from selective environments do better than those from less selective environments.

It is similar to pro sports. Sure, there are guys that a successful from small programs in the NFL. But, there are probably more guys from the SEC in the NFL than there are from all of D 2 and 3 combined.

Your college is but one variable in how successful you are. How much hair you have, your personality, how well you brush your teeth...all are variables in your success.

To the extent you can "control" those variables, and where you go to college is controllable, you better your chances of success. In graduating from a more selective environment, you don't guarantee your success, but you do get a faster start, more often than not.

To put it to extremes, do you think that you would have a better chance of success if you were 1) a Harvard graduate, or 2) a Radford graduate?

That is a rhetorical question, of course, and there is a correct answer.

So, within the spectrum of selectivity of schools, graduating from a more selective school is better, for job prospects on an overall basis than graduating from a less selective school, albeit in varying degrees.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: both are good ()
Date: February 05, 2012 11:13AM

Both are great schools. UVA is still tops in Virginia with it's pedigree but GMU is gaining very quickly. I'm quite surprised George Mason has racked up 2 Nobel Prize winners in its relatively short existence, surpassing all other universities in the state.

A Nobel Prize is probably the most prestigious international recognition that can be bestowed in the fields of science and literature. Most in academia would give up their firstborn to get a Nobel.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: W&M sucks ()
Date: February 05, 2012 11:17AM

William & Mary has been around since 1698 and is the second-oldest university in the country but has ZERO Nobel Prize winners. Yale has 49 Nobel winners by comparison.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: so you are saying... ()
Date: February 05, 2012 11:41AM

Are you trying to say that ITT Tech doesn't carry as much weight as MIT?!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Anti Monitor ()
Date: February 05, 2012 01:25PM

Where does Marymount University rank in all this?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: February 05, 2012 06:39PM

Radidum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> I'd rank James Madison

It's Madison Time!



Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: GknF6 ()
Date: February 06, 2012 08:54AM

A couple of random points:

- Mason bought 2 Nobel prize winners: the work that led to the Nobel prizes was not done at Mason.

- Having said that, Mason is becoming a strong, internationally-known University.

- Also, I'd like to point out that UVA is not only tops in Virginia, but one of the top Universities in the USA.

- As far as prestige goes, I had a graduate advisor who, if you look at his grad students and post-docs, seemed to only recruit and hire people form 2nd and 3rd tier schools (in contrast another professor seemed to only recruit students form the Ivy league).

He had a humble background and did exceedingly well (seems like I hear him being interviewed on Science Fridays every-other-week). I think his logic was: if you went to a humble school accomplished a lot and had high GRE scores, that is a lot more impressive than someone who went to an Ivy League (or UVA, or Michigan, or UC Berkley) and has the same accomplishments.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: FPT3m ()
Date: February 06, 2012 08:57AM

William & Mary is not a research university (like HArvard, Yale, UVA, GMU, etc.) and will probably never have Nobel prize winners.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: W&M pathetic ()
Date: February 06, 2012 10:04AM

FPT3m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> William & Mary is not a research university (like
> HArvard, Yale, UVA, GMU, etc.) and will probably
> never have Nobel prize winners.

Nobel has the literature category. I'm surprised that W&M has HUNDREDS OF YEARS under it's belt as a liberal arts univ and hasn't received just one Nobel in its run. It's pathetic.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Turth hurts huh ()
Date: February 06, 2012 11:42AM

W&M pathetic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FPT3m Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > William & Mary is not a research university
> (like
> > HArvard, Yale, UVA, GMU, etc.) and will
> probably
> > never have Nobel prize winners.
>
> Nobel has the literature category. I'm surprised
> that W&M has HUNDREDS OF YEARS under it's belt as
> a liberal arts univ and hasn't received just one
> Nobel in its run. It's pathetic.


This x 10000000. There's no excuse. W&M sucks

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: W&M overrated ()
Date: February 06, 2012 12:23PM

University of Texas at Austin has more Nobel Prize Literature winners than W&M. Absolutely pathetic. W&M was a great school...hundreds of years ago during the Colonial era. Since then it has fallen into obscurity. How the hell do you have the #2 oldest university in the country which prides itself in it's liberal arts not produce A SINGLE winner of the Nobel Prize for literature?!!! LOL

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Breakdown ()
Date: February 06, 2012 12:29PM

Here's the breakdown as many see it:

UVA - tops with great graduate and undergrad programs.
VTech - excellent nationally recognized engineering program
GMU - excellent rising univ. great computer science and economics program.
JMU - excellent
VCU - good
W&M - good but out of the major unis in VA, it's stock has fallen the greatest

All others like Christopher Newport, Hampden-Sydney, VSU, Norfolk, U of Richmond: you might as well get prepared to get laughed at and your resume shredded repeatedly.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Marymount ()
Date: February 06, 2012 03:47PM

What about Marymount dammit?!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: MtV ()
Date: February 06, 2012 09:03PM

The 2012 US News & World Report rankings by category:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges

National University Category:
25 - UVA
33 - W&M
71 - VT
138 - GMU

Regional (South) Category:
45 - Marymount

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: get it right ()
Date: February 06, 2012 09:43PM

Breakdown Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the breakdown as many see it:
>
> UVA - tops with great graduate and undergrad
> programs.
> VTech - excellent nationally recognized
> engineering program
> GMU - excellent rising univ. great computer
> science and economics program.
> JMU - excellent
> VCU - good
> W&M - good but out of the major unis in VA, it's
> stock has fallen the greatest
>
> All others like Christopher Newport,
> Hampden-Sydney, VSU, Norfolk, U of Richmond: you
> might as well get prepared to get laughed at and
> your resume shredded repeatedly.

What are you talking about? What is Norfolk? You are mistaken about the U of Richmond.

Old Dominion University generates "$88 million in annual funding through more than 400 ongoing projects." "Supported by grants from NSF, NIH, Depart of Education, Department of Energy, DoD." There are 25 SCHEV Outstanding Faculty Award Winners.

Keep filling the egos of those students and watch the level of entitlement reach new heights.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: suprisingly ()
Date: February 06, 2012 09:59PM

>
>
> This is one of those instances where general
> statements serve better than specific, anecdtotal
> references. Sure, we all know some superstar that
> kicks ass in their career, but came from a small
> college with a less than stellar academic
> reputation, and we can probably tell quite a few
> stories about some slack ass loser with an Ivy
> League background.
>
> Perhaps this notion is best summed up by something
> a recruiter once told me-it's not so much what you
> know, or even who you know. It is the fact that a
> degree from a highly competitive university
> provides a pedigree that strongly suggests that a
> job candidate has been able to prove themselves
> academically and otherwise to not only get into a
> more selective school, but to then compete with a
> higher caliber of student in order to graduate.
> This is true when hiring undergrads, and even more
> so when evaluating grad students, esp. law
> students and MBA students. There, it's not so much
> the idea that you might learn more at say, a
> "better" MBA program, but the fact that it takes
> more for a candidate to not only get in, but to
> compete, and thrive, at a higher level if they
> graduate from a more selective school than their
> counterpart who goes to a lesser school. Yes,
> there can be (and is) some separation, and making
> up for lost ground as one progresses through their
> career, but for the most part, a recruiter will
> tend towards somebody from a more selective school
> than somebody from a lesser school, even though
> the person from the lesser school might have
> slightly, or even significantly, better stats.
> And, they are statistically justified in doing so,
> when large numbers of recruits are evaluated...not
> just one guy here, and another guy there. Over a
> long term, recruits from selective environments do
> better than those from less selective
> environments.
>
> It is similar to pro sports. Sure, there are guys
> that a successful from small programs in the NFL.
> But, there are probably more guys from the SEC in
> the NFL than there are from all of D 2 and 3
> combined.
>
> Your college is but one variable in how successful
> you are. How much hair you have, your personality,
> how well you brush your teeth...all are variables
> in your success.
>
> To the extent you can "control" those variables,
> and where you go to college is controllable, you
> better your chances of success. In graduating from
> a more selective environment, you don't guarantee
> your success, but you do get a faster start, more
> often than not.
>
> To put it to extremes, do you think that you would
> have a better chance of success if you were 1) a
> Harvard graduate, or 2) a Radford graduate?
>
> That is a rhetorical question, of course, and
> there is a correct answer.
>
> So, within the spectrum of selectivity of schools,
> graduating from a more selective school is better,
> for job prospects on an overall basis than
> graduating from a less selective school, albeit in
> varying degrees.

suprisingly, i actually agree with most of your comments as they relate to business and law. some of the postings are from pompous jackasses and don't seem to understand this:

George Bush graduated from Yale. That man is a moron and failed the most fundamental requirement of his job - public speaking.

George Hugely was a UVA lacrosse star who is now on trial for murdering a fellow student. He sounds like a spoiled brat who was allowed to be a bully. He punch the lights out of a fellow teammate and the coaches looked the other way. Going to UVA does not give you a license to be a jerk but all the praising and bragging encourages people to think they have one.

Ken Cucinnelli is a UVA grad and he is currently wasting taxpayer money to fund his personal agenda. He is another one who doesn't seem to want to be told that he can't have something.

Barack Obama went to Harvard. Regardless of his politics, no one can deny that he is a gifted speaker.

So, it is not necessary to compare Harvard to Radford - we can compare Harvard to Yale. Who would you hire?

A Radford grad would beat them both in theapeutic recreation and special education.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Date: February 06, 2012 10:00PM

MtV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 2012 US News & World Report rankings by
> category:
> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best
> -colleges
>
> National University Category:
> 25 - UVA
> 33 - W&M
> 71 - VT
> 138 - GMU
>
> Regional (South) Category:
> 45 - Marymount


National Liberal Arts Colleges:

#12 Washington and Lee University
#27 University of Richmond

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: GMU Alum ()
Date: February 07, 2012 05:13PM

I'm a GMU alum, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on this subject. Academically, there is no question that UVA beats GMU hands down. While I believe GMU is underrated as an academic institution, it is hard to compete with the #2 public university in the country. However, as others have said in this thread, there is so much more to the selection process than rankings. Visit both schools, talk to students, talk to professor and see which one is the best fit for you. Many people will give you advice, but in the end it's on you to sort through the options and pick the best school for YOU.

If I had to give you one piece of advice it would be this: the place you went to undergraduate does not really matter much as long as you have a good GPA (provided you don't attend a school lower than what people in this thread refer to as tier 4). I graduated GMU with an engineering degree and a pretty good GPA. I got a job that was as good or better than my friends who had the same degree but went to UVA or Tech.

After your first job out of undergrad, no one will look to see where you went to school. It's all about experience and filling a need after that. The name factor of the school is much more important when pursuing a graduate degree, especially in Law or Business.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Rathskeller 12 ()
Date: February 07, 2012 05:25PM

Very well put.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: youre an idiot ()
Date: February 07, 2012 05:35PM

suprisingly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> suprisingly, i actually agree with most of your
> comments as they relate to business and law. some
> of the postings are from pompous jackasses and
> don't seem to understand this:
>
> George Bush graduated from Yale. That man is a
> moron and failed the most fundamental requirement
> of his job - public speaking.
>
> George Hugely was a UVA lacrosse star who is now
> on trial for murdering a fellow student. He
> sounds like a spoiled brat who was allowed to be a
> bully. He punch the lights out of a fellow
> teammate and the coaches looked the other way.
> Going to UVA does not give you a license to be a
> jerk but all the praising and bragging encourages
> people to think they have one.
>
> Ken Cucinnelli is a UVA grad and he is currently
> wasting taxpayer money to fund his personal
> agenda. He is another one who doesn't seem to
> want to be told that he can't have something.
>
> Barack Obama went to Harvard. Regardless of his
> politics, no one can deny that he is a gifted
> speaker.
>
> So, it is not necessary to compare Harvard to
> Radford - we can compare Harvard to Yale. Who
> would you hire?
>
> A Radford grad would beat them both in theapeutic
> recreation and special education.


You are an absolute idiot for trying to turn a thread about two schools into an Obama suck fest.

With youre example Im taking the Yale kid 100 out of 100 times

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: soccerguy315 ()
Date: February 07, 2012 10:49PM

looks like W&M peed in someone's cereal... apparently someone who thinks that "liberal arts" equates to "literature"

W&M has built its reputation on a commitment to undergraduate teaching, not graduate programs or professors that do research and leave the teaching to TAs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Gmu grad ()
Date: February 09, 2012 12:24PM

Funny that people still call Mason a "commuter school" - it has the most on campus housing compared to all other Virginia schools.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Fuckyou1_KTA ()
Date: February 09, 2012 08:51PM

UVA all the way as far as academics go. My friends there are actually having a tough time, and they were the kids in high school who were disappointed to have a GPA lower than a 4.0. I can't say as much for GMU, but it's probably an ok school. Fairfax is no good if you're looking for the classic college experience however.

By the way Radford is something like Lord of the Flies but with more cases of alcohol poisoning. A joke of a University from what I could tell when I visited for a few weekends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2012 08:55PM by Fuckyou1_KTA.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Date: February 09, 2012 08:54PM

Classic college experience typically involves a college in a small town.

Think:
Charlottesville
State College
Lexington
Princeton

There are exceptions: like the Ivies in New England. But that is an experience unto itself.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Mason AND UVA (not OR) ()
Date: February 13, 2012 12:33AM

I'm proud I went to UVA, but as a Virginian, I'm proud that all of the schools in the state have strong reputations.

Does it have to be a horse race? Kids today should pick the school that best meets their individual academic/financial/social/geographic needs.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: CollegeWatcher ()
Date: December 11, 2012 10:54PM

JMU is very close to Tech in selectivity, and is more selective than VMI, GMU, or Hampden-Sydney. U of Richmond is really expensive as is H-S (and both are private). JMU is close to a 3.9 average GPA for entering freshmen and almost as high SAT's as Tech (a tad lower in math SAT due to the pull of the Engineering programs at Tech), and Tech has a 3.9 average GPA. Most of the top students at Tech are Engineering majors. In the Arts & Sciences area, they are very even with JMU, if not a tad weaker. JMU's undergrad business school has been out-ranking Tech's in recent business rankings. UVA, W&M, JMU, Mary Washington, and Tech are consistently and often listed as vest values in higher education. They are hard to beat in terms of quality of students, quality of programs, and campus atmosphere/community for the money. Though they are trying to change this, and making great strides doing so, GMU and VCU still have a heavy commuter population, which takes away from the on-campus community feel (although they are both great schools academically).
All of this is beside the point, though. Virginia has excellent schools, even the ones that aren't tip top (thinking of W&M and UVA as tip top of public schools). Which school or schools are "the best" are just opinions and can be debated endlessly, and US News and similar rankings are full of faulty methodology. Visit schools, and decide for yourself which ones are the best for you. Back in my day, before rankings, it was pretty much agreed upon across the board that W&M was the most rigorous and intellectual college in Virginia. Sure, UVA attracted some top students, too; but they were the ones interested in partying more so than academic inquiry, so the academic atmosphere there was not as competitive as W&M back in the day. VA Tech always did attract the top math students, and JMU always managed to attract a healthy amount of strong students, as well. Mary Washington is a lot more intellectual and academic than some of the other schools with which you have lumped them in your pecking order. It has long had a stellar academic reputation. In fact, by and large, undergrad students will get a better education (smaller classes taught by full professors and better housing) at the undergrad focused schools than they will at the big football schools with large graduate programs, where the resources are focused more on the graduate level. In the end, these days the "name brand" matters more at the graduate school than at the undergrad. Most employers don't hire people straight out of undergrad anymore, but when they do, they are mostly looking for strong GPA's and work experience (internships, co-op, projects, research experience, etc.), and that can be gleaned through almost any college. In fact, you're more likely to get those experiences at either a smaller school such as Mary Washington or W&M or one that has a strong network in the working world to arrange internships and co-ops for students (JMU and Tech are exceptional with this). Many graduates of less famous undergrad schools who applied themselves and did well have gone on to elite graduate schools such as the Ivy Leagues, Duke, Georgetown, etc. It's all really what you make of it. Your life isn't over if you don't go to a top tier school for undergrad or ever. You can make your way and take advantage of the opportunities wherever you go -- it's your own personal drive, ambition, and ability to get along with others that makes or breaks your success. Where you go to college is only one very small part of the picture.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: FootballSEC1 ()
Date: December 12, 2012 09:49AM

CollegeWatcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JMU is very close to Tech in selectivity, and is
> more selective than VMI, GMU, or Hampden-Sydney.
> U of Richmond is really expensive as is H-S (and
> both are private). JMU is close to a 3.9 average
> GPA for entering freshmen and almost as high SAT's
> as Tech (a tad lower in math SAT due to the pull
> of the Engineering programs at Tech), and Tech has
> a 3.9 average GPA. Most of the top students at
> Tech are Engineering majors. In the Arts &
> Sciences area, they are very even with JMU, if not
> a tad weaker. JMU's undergrad business school has
> been out-ranking Tech's in recent business
> rankings. UVA, W&M, JMU, Mary Washington, and
> Tech are consistently and often listed as vest
> values in higher education. They are hard to beat
> in terms of quality of students, quality of
> programs, and campus atmosphere/community for the
> money. Though they are trying to change this, and
> making great strides doing so, GMU and VCU still
> have a heavy commuter population, which takes away
> from the on-campus community feel (although they
> are both great schools academically).
> All of this is beside the point, though. Virginia
> has excellent schools, even the ones that aren't
> tip top (thinking of W&M and UVA as tip top of
> public schools). Which school or schools are "the
> best" are just opinions and can be debated
> endlessly, and US News and similar rankings are
> full of faulty methodology. Visit schools, and
> decide for yourself which ones are the best for
> you. Back in my day, before rankings, it was
> pretty much agreed upon across the board that W&M
> was the most rigorous and intellectual college in
> Virginia. Sure, UVA attracted some top students,
> too; but they were the ones interested in partying
> more so than academic inquiry, so the academic
> atmosphere there was not as competitive as W&M
> back in the day. VA Tech always did attract the
> top math students, and JMU always managed to
> attract a healthy amount of strong students, as
> well. Mary Washington is a lot more intellectual
> and academic than some of the other schools with
> which you have lumped them in your pecking order.
> It has long had a stellar academic reputation. In
> fact, by and large, undergrad students will get a
> better education (smaller classes taught by full
> professors and better housing) at the undergrad
> focused schools than they will at the big football
> schools with large graduate programs, where the
> resources are focused more on the graduate level.
> In the end, these days the "name brand" matters
> more at the graduate school than at the undergrad.
> Most employers don't hire people straight out of
> undergrad anymore, but when they do, they are
> mostly looking for strong GPA's and work
> experience (internships, co-op, projects, research
> experience, etc.), and that can be gleaned through
> almost any college. In fact, you're more likely
> to get those experiences at either a smaller
> school such as Mary Washington or W&M or one that
> has a strong network in the working world to
> arrange internships and co-ops for students (JMU
> and Tech are exceptional with this). Many
> graduates of less famous undergrad schools who
> applied themselves and did well have gone on to
> elite graduate schools such as the Ivy Leagues,
> Duke, Georgetown, etc. It's all really what you
> make of it. Your life isn't over if you don't go
> to a top tier school for undergrad or ever. You
> can make your way and take advantage of the
> opportunities wherever you go -- it's your own
> personal drive, ambition, and ability to get along
> with others that makes or breaks your success.
> Where you go to college is only one very small
> part of the picture.


That's a good post, CollegeWatcher. There's something in it for parents, students and student-athletes. My HS record was good but below the GPAs and test scores at schools in the Ivy League, UVA, Duke, etc. On top of that, I didn't believe I could compete even if admitted. That was my mind-set at 17 and I ended up playing FB at what some ranking services might call a "diploma mill." Yet I learned a lot there and made some good friends, too. A few years later, grad school beckoned and it just so happened that the right program for me was Penn. As it turned out, the things I'd learned to do in elementary school (listen, study, try, never quit, get alone) work everywhere. I could care less if X% of people who go to school Y turn into Fortune 100 CEOs or Supreme Court clerks. If the school is not right for you, then you'll have a lame four years if you even make it that long. Pick the school that you think fits you. Do as well as you can. Never let anybody tell you what you can and can't achieve. You have amazing schools in this state and our company hires grads from every one of them.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: nekkid college chiks ()
Date: April 03, 2013 03:43PM


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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Yes, but ()
Date: April 03, 2013 07:00PM

Hilo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mason has two Nobel Prize recipients, more than
> any other university in Virginia. It's stock has
> definitely risen. I believe it's ranked higher
> than JMU in the latest US News rankings

One died years ago and the other left to take a job at Chapman University. Neither did the work for which he got the prize at GMU. (It was like the Redskins signing Bruce Smith and Deion Saunders.) UVa still has a much better Economics department than GMU.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: dobiegirl ()
Date: April 03, 2013 07:06PM

If you can get accepted to UVA, go, because you should have more options in life.

If you can't get into UVA, go to Mason.

If you can't get into Mason, go into the military.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: yLWKY ()
Date: April 03, 2013 07:33PM

Mason's current incoming high schoolers have an average 3.6 GPA. In the late 90s, it was a 2.9 GPA. It is getting much more competitive, due in large part to the hoards of foreign students from the Middle East and Asia. They are smart and competitive, and see Mason as their ticket. Getting into UVA is a bit too difficult for many foreigners... It really takes parents or a mentor showing you the ropes, getting letters of recommendation, etc. Lots of part-time students at Mason who are first-generation and otherwise bright. Mason is an excellent choice for these students.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: butthead ()
Date: April 03, 2013 08:20PM

Employer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd hire a UVA grad over a GMU grad almost any
> day.
> In Virginia, the hierarchy is
>
> Tier 1:
> UVA, W&M, W&L
>
> Tier 2
> VPI, VMI, Hampden-Sydney, U of Richmond
>
> Tier 3
> JMU, GMU, Christopher newport
>
> Tier 4
> VCU, ODU, radford, Mary Wash, and many other small
> schools - Lynchburg, Randolph macon, Roanoke,
>
> Tier 5
> VSU, Norfolk State, NoVa CC, any other community
> college

i'd say those rankings are exactly right......

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then everyone's a loser
Posted by: everyone's a winner baby ()
Date: April 04, 2013 11:18AM

There's been some recalibration of GPAs and SATs as well as some serious grade inflation. Tech's 2016 class has an average high school GPA of 3.98.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: ltc ()
Date: April 04, 2013 03:19PM

JMU has been on the decline...accepts almost everyone. GMU has been on the upswing but not remotely in class of UVA. UVA and W & M are elite national universities....great tradition and impossible to get into undergrad programs from in-state.

If you are seeking good VA instate education, pecking order is UVA/WM, GMU, and VTECH (but only if you pursue engineering degree). The rest is junk!

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Tough One ()
Date: April 04, 2013 03:24PM

GMU for the cost, staying in the area, plus now the name recognition. Its funny how years ago this was nothing but a commuter school, but if you go out to the west coast or even international spots, its very well known.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: bball negro ()
Date: April 04, 2013 03:32PM

Everyone wants to get into GMU because Paul Hewitt will take them to the Final Four eventually.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: This is a Question? ()
Date: April 04, 2013 03:56PM

Mason is commuter school. If Mason's basketball team did make it into the final four nobody would know the school existed.

UVA on the other hand is one step below Harvard, MIT and Yale.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: XuyeL ()
Date: April 04, 2013 11:39PM

This is a Question? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UVA on the other hand is one step below Harvard,
> MIT and Yale.

Hmm... not so sure about that.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: GMU ()
Date: April 04, 2013 11:48PM

Harmmie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GMU does not compare to U Va, they would like you
> to think so tho, it is slightly better than NOVA.

Where are you getting your facts? The average accepted GPA at Mason is a 3.5 and anyone who graduated high school is eligible to go to NOVA. And Mason is no longer at commuter status as of like 3 years ago.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: April 05, 2013 12:17PM

ltc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are seeking good VA instate education,
> pecking order is UVA/WM, GMU, and VTECH (but only
> if you pursue engineering degree). The rest is
> junk!

What are you smoking?

In ranking Virginia schools it is fairly simple: UVa is at the top. After that it depends on what you are studying and what you want to do afterwards. W&M and W&L have great liberal arts programs, and are on par with UVa in that area. For engineering generally, Tech is the UVa alternative. For business, if you aren't going to UVa then it would be UR and JMU, and possibly W&M. GMU is good if you intend to take advantage of internship opportunities in this area. VMI traditionally has an extremely strong alumni network that can help open doors after graduation. Architecture-is there any choice other than UVa and Tech? Etc.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Gonads & Strife ()
Date: April 05, 2013 08:23PM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Architecture-is there any choice other than UVa
> and Tech? Etc.


Not in VA but Catholic University is apparently good for architecture

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Young Curmudgeon ()
Date: April 06, 2013 10:51AM

This is a Question? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UVA on the other hand is one step below Harvard,
> MIT and Yale.

No, UVA is two steps below Harvard, MIT, and Yale. Cornell and Georgetown are one step below Harvard.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: compareright ()
Date: June 02, 2013 08:32PM

Disagree with some of those Tier classifications mentioned above. I think VA has an amazingly good public university concentration. There is one for every budget, and academic qualifications.

USNews ranking methodology is is like making sausage (with all the ugly stuff that goes into it). Some of the weights they apply, or how they fill in blank/missing data would surely get you a nice "F" in stats class, if you were to do what they are doing to data. You are supposed to have a hyphothesis first, and then collect your data to see if your hyphothesis holds. In other words, you do not collect data first and then manufucture hyphothesis that supports your data for PR purposes.

My choices will be UVA, GMU, W&M, VT not in any particular order. All are pretty good and serious about what they do.

GMU and UVA have a traditional state budget trade-off war between the two - they get $ allocations based on head count at each level (undergrad, masters, PhD).
GMU always gets hammered on number of students per FT professor count on all college ranking providers. Why? Because the school is next to the highest per capita education zip codes and the DC metropolitan area (Fed Gvmt, IMF, World bank...). They do not need to seek FT professors because they have access to world class professor+plus educators (professors with major active real life experience) who line-up to offer their services on a part time basis. That metric alone lowers GMUs ranking by probably 100 places... VT, UVA, W&M, on the other hand, have to have their FT profs living nearby on a FT basis. So, they end up placing - on that metric alone- way above GMU. Where does GMU put that money then? Technology, and arts.

Now, it is a weird metric but let's compare drop deadlines for Spring 2013 semester for both schools. You are getting a W (withdrawl, all your money is gone but at least it is not "F").

GMU - February 22, you get an "F" afterwards
UVA - March 25, you get an "F" afterwards
Harvard - April 26 (I just put it here for lol, the semester is almost over)

So, if you are not so sure about that class or you are not doing too good, you will get an "F" at GMU about a month earlier than UVA. The only way you can get an I (incomplete) from GMU is if you bring your own morgue report. Harvard lets you mess with that class without getting an "F" almost till the end...

Now take a wild guess, students from which school are likely to have a better GPA? Yep, Harvard... The worse GPA? Yep, GMU.

So, ranking providers look at the absolute GPA comparisons and conclude that GMU sucks, compared to UVA, really? If you adjust that with attempted credit hours you'll get a totally different picture. So, GMU policies do not take any prisoners - which lead to better & faster decision making with minimal wasted time & money. School knows that, and does not really think it needs to prove anything to anybody. You may get in easier (than UVA) but you may end up working harder to get out.

What about job & internship opportunities even as an undergrad... No school can compete with GMU on that because most profs are either working somewhere, or have major consulting contracts with mega-businesses in the area (so, if you are a good student, you do not have to look for a job because one of your profs will snap you, and put you to paid work in his/her network).

Take a look at sports, compare the minimum GPA requirements to see how serious that school is about it's education priorities. Another metric that is missing from comparisons.

Campus life/culture: no contest there - GMU students will be making money working somewhere while UVA folks are partying.

USNewsWR ranking also takes counselor surveys into consideration. IMHO, it is a total waste to include qualitative opinion data to arrive at a credible quantitative outcome.

So, do your research - think independently because rankings are there for PR (psychology), and definitely do not tell the full, or even accurate story.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Taz ()
Date: June 02, 2013 08:57PM

Thanks Guys. I just finished my first year at XXXXXXX. Keep up the good work.

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: 4tGH4 ()
Date: March 01, 2014 12:24AM

GMU girls give better head.
UVA chicks have tighter pussys.

It's apples and oranges people...

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: Fap Fappington ()
Date: March 01, 2014 07:00PM

I must respectfully disagree..... The UVA girls give much better head. GMU girls are more fun in the sack (or the back seat of the car... You know who you are).

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: cj ()
Date: August 19, 2014 03:20PM

UVA or Mason. I've got less than a week to decide.

I can graduate in 2 semesters & a summer at GMU, but I will have to comment 40 minutes a day. UVA will require 2 years and their average GPA is a 3.1 whereas GMU's is a 3.7.

I want a good GPA and I don't want to to waste time but I'm afraid GMU's reputation will kill me and I'll regret going to UVA.

Thoughts?

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Re: Mason or UVA
Posted by: they don't accept babies ()
Date: August 19, 2014 03:37PM

You're too late. Both of them finished accepting students a while back. You've got a week to decide to get your butt back to 8th grade and start some real learning.

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