Noticed on the Vegas style sign on Braddock rd. something about a GMU football game. Is this a club football game? NAIA? Division 3?
What CAA teams have a football program?

CAA Standings
TEAM CONF OVERALL
Maine 6-1 8-2
Towson 6-1 8-2
Old Dominion 6-2 9-2
New Hampshire 5-2 7-3
Delaware 4-3 6-4
James Madison 4-3 6-4
Massachusetts 3-4 5-5
William & Mary 2-5 4-6
Rhode Island 2-5 3-7
Villanova 1-6 2-8
Richmond 0-7 3-7

fyi george mason football is club level only and not part of the CAA.

"Richmond 0-7 3-7"
down year for Richmond? haven't they had some good years in the past


Yes I know GMU was probably club but wishful thinking
Probably even less likely GMU gets real football after Merton exits?

George Johson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Richmond 0-7 3-7"
> down year for Richmond? haven't they had some good
> years in the past
>
>
> Yes I know GMU was probably club but wishful
> thinking
> Probably even less likely GMU gets real football
> after Merton exits?


Not enough booster money...do they even have one?

Neither the school, nor the state will allocate the cash to do that...EVER.


BBall is a much more affordable and viable option.



Take a look at Kansas...that school makes ten times more money from their shitty football team than their top rated basketball program.

George Johson Wrote:

> Yes I know GMU was probably club but wishful
> thinking
> Probably even less likely GMU gets real football
> after Merton exits?


Theres been talk of it. If they get one it wont be for a while though. Like till after all the other construction projects are finished. The biggest issue is where would a stadium go, and that the local residents around the school are against things that create a lot of noise. The baseball team doesnt have lights for night games because of the residents being against it so that will be an obstacle

never happen Wrote:

>
> Not enough booster money...do they even have one?
>
> Neither the school, nor the state will allocate
> the cash to do that...EVER.
>
>
> BBall is a much more affordable and viable
> option.
>
>
>
> Take a look at Kansas...that school makes ten
> times more money from their shitty football team
> than their top rated basketball program.

Guess you missed the bit about ODU just adding football 2-3 years ago...That is a state school.

Back in the Day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> never happen Wrote:
>
> >
> > Not enough booster money...do they even have
> one?
> >
> > Neither the school, nor the state will allocate
> > the cash to do that...EVER.
> >
> >
> > BBall is a much more affordable and viable
> > option.
> >
> >
> >
> > Take a look at Kansas...that school makes ten
> > times more money from their shitty football
> team
> > than their top rated basketball program.
>
> Guess you missed the bit about ODU just adding
> football 2-3 years ago...That is a state school.



So is UVA, VA Tech, VMI, and James Madison; they are all state schools that are either FCS or FBS.


I never said there weren't any state schools with football programs, so what's your point?

never happen Wrote:

> Not enough booster money...do they even have one?
>
> Neither the school, nor the state will allocate
> the cash to do that...EVER.
>
>
> BBall is a much more affordable and viable
> option.
>
>
>
> Take a look at Kansas...that school makes ten
> times more money from their shitty football team
> than their top rated basketball program.


Im not really sure what youre saying. Youre saying that no one will pay for it, yet football is much more profitable? If they thought they would make money on it why wouldnt they do it? You seem to be contradicting yourself

And yes Mason has boosters

never happen say,"Take a look at Kansas...that school makes ten times more money from their shitty football team than their top rated basketball program."

Is there a website that shows this info for Division 1 programs? I get the feeling these days that college atheltics is turning into a big ponzi scheme to the benefit of ESPN and your regional sports carriers like Comcast. All these schools chasing the BCS Bowl money or the March Madness cash. Schools must spend tons of money in hopes of the big pay day but if they don't make it they get deeper and deeper budget shortfalls. I tell you Congress needs to stop the madness if only Congress could control its own Madness

it's possible say,"The biggest issue is where would a stadium go, and that the local residents around the school are against things that create a lot of noise."

How about out at the Prince William County campus? Looks like enough land out there, far enough away from most residential areas. Wish something could be done for the baseball team and lights. Play too many games to be trucking out to a Prince William facility all the time.

never happen also say," Neither the school, nor the state will allocate the cash to do that...EVER"

So GMU gets $10's of millions for the ever expanding campus at Fairfax(stop the madness) and Prince William but none for athletics(bring back the fencing team). I get feeling when Mr. Merton is gone that the powers that be will deemphasize atheltics even more.
I don't think atheltics is the be all for creating a social community for students and alumni and the public but it couldn't hurt but Nerds rule
and no not a Nebraska type of situation but a nice division 2 or divsion 1A program for football wouldn't be all bad would it

antichuckhoffman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there a website that shows this info for
> Division 1 programs? I get the feeling these days
> that college atheltics is turning into a big ponzi
> scheme to the benefit of ESPN and your regional
> sports carriers like Comcast. All these schools
> chasing the BCS Bowl money or the March Madness
> cash. Schools must spend tons of money in hopes of
> the big pay day but if they don't make it they get
> deeper and deeper budget shortfalls. I tell you
> Congress needs to stop the madness if only
> Congress could control its own Madness

> How about out at the Prince William County campus?
> Looks like enough land out there, far enough away
> from most residential areas. Wish something could
> be done for the baseball team and lights. Play too
> many games to be trucking out to a Prince William
> facility all the time.
>
> So GMU gets $10's of millions for the ever
> expanding campus at Fairfax(stop the madness) and
> Prince William but none for athletics(bring back
> the fencing team). I get feeling when Mr. Merton
> is gone that the powers that be will deemphasize
> atheltics even more.
> I don't think atheltics is the be all for creating
> a social community for students and alumni and the
> public but it couldn't hurt but Nerds rule
> and no not a Nebraska type of situation but a nice
> division 2 or divsion 1A program for football
> wouldn't be all bad would it


You make some good points. Theres been NCAA investigations and firings over schools giving kickbacks to bowl games. I could be wrong but Im pretty sure I saw that the schools lose money on some of the bowl games as they are forced to buy up unsold tickets ect. Now for the BCS games im sure they make money but some of the other games I wouldnt be surprised if they take a hit for them.

The PW campus does have some land, but if youve ever been there They dont have land like that that I know of. They have been building that up for the bio defense facilities and seem to want to keep that campus strictly academic. It also wouldnt bode well for attendance so I dont think that would ever serious be considered.

As far as baseball Brown has been there so long I dont think hes really to worried about it. They have their stadium and hes pretty content with how things are now. Theres pros and cons to the having all day games, but it does make scheduling classes more difficult as more and more classes are being offered later which would be during the practice/game time. Some departments wont let you miss more than 3 classes without failing even if it is for a school sports team.

Itll be interesting to see how the new Dean views sports. I know mason is on a big academic push so they may continue to take that path and not want to worry about sports to much. They also dont like when sports start to become bigger than the school, aka Larranega. They never made him a serious offer even though the team brought national attention to the school. They offered just enough to save face while still knowing he would turn it down. Mason has more money then VCU and they paid their coach to keep him after their run.

what??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> never happen Wrote:
>
> > Not enough booster money...do they even have
> one?
> >
> > Neither the school, nor the state will allocate
> > the cash to do that...EVER.
> > BBall is a much more affordable and viable
> > option.
> >
> >
> >
> > Take a look at Kansas...that school makes ten
> > times more money from their shitty football
> team
> > than their top rated basketball program.
>
>
> Im not really sure what youre saying. Youre
> saying that no one will pay for it, yet football
> is much more profitable? If they thought they
> would make money on it why wouldnt they do it?
> You seem to be contradicting yourself




What I am saying is Mason is about improving their academic image, not making money. If they wanted to make money they would start a football program like USF. My Kansas comparison was used to illustrate that Mason would make way more money in BCS football than they ever could in NCAA basketball. That is why the BCS runs FBS football and leaves the lesser money generating sports to the NCAA. What is SO unclear about that?



> And yes Mason has boosters


I was being facetious. The fact is Mason would have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a stadium and upgrade/improve their facilitieis to make it into FBS football. This is a monetary commitment they are unilling to subscribe to when their main priority is improving their academic image.

clear as day Wrote:

>
> What I am saying is Mason is about improving their
> academic image, not making money. If they wanted
> to make money they would start a football program
> like USF. My Kansas comparison was used to
> illustrate that Mason would make way more money in
> BCS football than they ever could in NCAA
> basketball. That is why the BCS runs FBS football
> and leaves the lesser money generating sports to
> the NCAA. What is SO unclear about that?


It was unclear because it sounded like you were contradicting yourself. But yes you are correct that Mason is really only concerned about academics and has no real interest in becoming a big time sports school despite all the talent in the area. I would assume any new dean the board picks will be in line with this philosophy

clear as day say,"The fact is Mason would have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a stadium and upgrade/improve their facilitieis to make it into FBS football. This is a monetary commitment they are unilling to subscribe to when their main priority is improving their academic image."

$100's o' millions for a football stadium for division 2 or division 1A really?

youre correct say,"Mason is really only concerned about academics and has no real interest in becoming a big time sports school"

why does it have to be big time sports why not divison 2 football or !A play richmond, William & Mary, Georgetown, Hofstra etc.

clear as day say,"This is a monetary commitment they are unilling to subscribe to when their main priority is improving their academic image."

As if the Nerds ain't benefitting financially from academic expansion versus a football program. I bet there a pack of angels

I forget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clear as day say,"The fact is Mason would have to
> spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a
> stadium and upgrade/improve their facilitieis to
> make it into FBS football. This is a monetary
> commitment they are unilling to subscribe to when
> their main priority is improving their academic
> image."
>
> $100's o' millions for a football stadium for
> division 2 or division 1A?


I said FBS football, idiot. If you think building an FBS grade stadium and upgrading current athletic facilities to FBS standards wouldn't cost several hundred million dollars...you are as dumb as they come.

dum dum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I said FBS football, idiot. If you think building
> an FBS grade stadium and upgrading current
> athletic facilities to FBS standards wouldn't cost
> several hundred million dollars...you are as dumb
> as they come.

It would cost at least 100 million, probably more. JMU just renovated their existing stadium and it cost 65 million. GMU would be starting from scratch, in addition to the stadium they'd need practice facilities, locker rooms, offices, parking upgrades, etc. And building in Fairfax is more expensive than Harrisonburg.

I forget Wrote:

> youre correct say,"Mason is really only concerned
> about academics and has no real interest in
> becoming a big time sports school"
>
> why does it have to be big time sports why not
> divison 2 football or !A play richmond, William &
> Mary, Georgetown, Hofstra etc.
>
> clear as day say,"This is a monetary commitment
> they are unilling to subscribe to when their main
> priority is improving their academic image."
>
> As if the Nerds ain't benefitting financially from
> academic expansion versus a football program. I
> bet there a pack of angels


By adding a team that is a move in the direction of increasing sports not academics, mason has no interest. As far as money goes D 1A and D2 programs dont make nearly as much money as you think with a few exceptions and yes it would be 100s of millions to find land and build a stadium for them. The land alone near mason would probably be worth 10 to 20 mil

Here's the CAA football preview. Looks like Old Dominion is the strongest football team in the CAA. That's very impressive because ODU has only had a football team for maybe 3 years.



IN – Towson (7-2), New Hampshire (7-2), Maine (7-2), Old Dominion (8-2). The first three teams are currently tied for first in the CAA, and each has quality wins without “bad” losses. The Monarchs have eight D-1 wins, which historically is enough for CAA teams to reach the playoffs.


STILL ALIVE – James Madison (5-4), Delaware (5-4). James Madison has a chance to reach seven D-1 wins this season, which the NCAA selection committee has deemed sufficient in prior seasons for CAA teams for at-large bids. Two of their losses were against 7-2 Maine by one point in overtime and against 8-2 Old Dominion on the road by a field goal. Delaware has a chance to reach seven wins with winnable games against Richmond and Villanova. However, one of their five current wins is against D-2 West Chester, so their seven-win resume would be less appealing compared to a seven-win JMU resume.

" If they wanted to make money they would start a football program like USF."
----

From my understanding, all but 7 athletic programs actually make money: the rest are all subsidized by the universities themselves. So, if GMU wants to *lose* money, then they should start up a football program.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2010-01-13-ncaa-athletics-funding-analysis_N.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2011-06-23-2011-athletic-department-subsidy-table_n.htm

If you check the last link, USF athletics are subsidized by $14million.

I hate to say it, but I hope Hewitt does a terrible job just as he did at GT. This way the school can justify firing O'Connor, and maybe we can get an AD who will atleast entertain the idea of a football program. All I want to do is tailgate, who gives a shit if the team sucks for the first few years. Also, a football team could dramatically improve school spirit, which would lead to more alumni donations; bet.

$90 million for a football team... God I hate O'Connor!

5Whiskey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> $90 million for a football team... God I hate
> O'Connor!

With McDonnell's appointees on the Board, all of the administration leaving, and additional cuts coming from Richmond, along with pressure from politicos not to raise tuition, you will NOT be seeing a football team anytime in the next five to ten years.

You can take that to the bank.

Not sure if I'll take advice from someone who doesn't know the ADs name... Da da da da...

When I was going there, 12 years ago, they put the idea of having a football team to a vote across the student body. Of those that voted, the majority voted "no team". The reason was that a team cost a minimum of $4 million and so the school would have to spend as much on the women due to Title IX. Seeing that most students are commuters and only are there for classes and then gone, most of the voters, i.e not the kids staying on campus, wanted the money spent on other things to improve the campus like the shitty dorms down by the parking garage.

If they wanted to put a stadium in Fairfax, they have the land. They could put it on the land that they have ball fields on now down past the field house., but again, that is money and a game would royally screw up traffic on 123, and Braddock. Plus they have that big chunk of land over by Shirley Gate they could use. the land out by the PW campus is pretty much spoken for in planning. There is supposed to be a lot more commercial and residential plus a town center put in there similar to Reston's.

Merten is opposed to a football team. With him gone, I can see the idea at least being revisited. All one has to do to see the ultimate success story is look to Old Dominion in Norfolk. They started their program and within 2 years were sold out and playing in front of rabid fans with an enthusiastic fan base with a winning team. This year they are playing in the FCS playoffs in the second round of the Championship.

GMU has a very similar, if not better area to market a FCS (1-AA) football program. Tidewater has multiple College football teams William & Mary, CNU, Norfolk State, Hampton, that compete with ODU. Northern Virginia has no other College football teams to compete with for those football dollars. NoVA is a much more affluent area and even if you are a graduate/fan of another College program I cannot believe they would not sell out a 20-25 thousand capacity stadium on Saturday afternoons. GMU is already a member of the CAA, the best FCS conference in the country. That would bring in teams like JMU, Richmond, William & Mary, ODU and others to create instant rivalrys and match ups. The cost of a stadium is obviously large, but again ODU had to basically rebuild Forum Field, so they had that cost to factor in. If ODU can pull it off in Tidewater why can't GMU pull it off in NoVA?

What would a football team mean for GMU? Instant school spirit, recognition and Dollars. When GMU made the Final Four years back their applications multiplied 4 fold the next year. I understand the cost versus return argument, and if a study proves it is still a loser than at least it can be said we tried. I find it hard to believe ODU can pull it off in Tidewater with competition and Northern Virginia would not support it to the point it is a viable idea.

FusilliJerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was going there, 12 years ago, they put the
> idea of having a football team to a vote across
> the student body. Of those that voted, the
> majority voted "no team".

Muslims just don't understand football.

ODU clone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Merten is opposed to a football team. With him
> gone, I can see the idea at least being revisited.
> All one has to do to see the ultimate success
> story is look to Old Dominion in Norfolk. They
> started their program and within 2 years were sold
> out and playing in front of rabid fans with an
> enthusiastic fan base with a winning team. This
> year they are playing in the FCS playoffs in the
> second round of the Championship.
>
> GMU has a very similar, if not better area to
> market a FCS (1-AA) football program. Tidewater
> has multiple College football teams William &
> Mary, CNU, Norfolk State, Hampton, that compete
> with ODU. Northern Virginia has no other College
> football teams to compete with for those football
> dollars. NoVA is a much more affluent area and
> even if you are a graduate/fan of another College
> program I cannot believe they would not sell out a
> 20-25 thousand capacity stadium on Saturday
> afternoons. GMU is already a member of the CAA,
> the best FCS conference in the country. That
> would bring in teams like JMU, Richmond, William &
> Mary, ODU and others to create instant rivalrys
> and match ups. The cost of a stadium is obviously
> large, but again ODU had to basically rebuild
> Forum Field, so they had that cost to factor in.
> If ODU can pull it off in Tidewater why can't GMU
> pull it off in NoVA?
>
> What would a football team mean for GMU? Instant
> school spirit, recognition and Dollars. When GMU
> made the Final Four years back their applications
> multiplied 4 fold the next year. I understand the
> cost versus return argument, and if a study proves
> it is still a loser than at least it can be said
> we tried. I find it hard to believe ODU can pull
> it off in Tidewater with competition and Northern
> Virginia would not support it to the point it is a
> viable idea.


There is one big difference though. ODU can get land much cheaper. Yes GMU could use the land past the athletic fields for a stadium, but that would mean no more intramural sports as thats what those fields are used for. So either the school would have to spend a ton of money on new land, destroy intramural sports, or put the stadium out in PW. My guess is we probably wont ever see a real football team there.

There is plenty of land, Mason has property out to Shirley Gate.

http://building.gmu.edu/football-at-mason/

Curious, when did ODU begin their FB program, back when a Dem was the Governor? There is an incredible amount of pressure being applied on Universities by Richmond. No way Mason could do this now. However, if the political winds shift to the left a little, and the right President is selected, who knows?

I'd love to see it happen, but it's a longshot at best.

wait, what?! Wrote:

> Curious, when did ODU begin their FB program, back
> when a Dem was the Governor? There is an
> incredible amount of pressure being applied on
> Universities by Richmond. No way Mason could do
> this now. However, if the political winds shift to
> the left a little, and the right President is
> selected, who knows?


This has nothing to do with left vs right. The only reason why the current state representatives would be against it is the economic climate. The schools are asking for more funding when there is to much spending already. They arent going to get more money to spend on something like that when other schools want it for academics. If they could prove it would make money and fund it themselves and not ask for an increase in funding, they wouldnt be against it. Essentially the state wants the schools to curtail spending not start on new multi million dollar athletic projects that would cause the school a yearly financial loss and because of title 9 cause the school to either cut other mens sports programs, add womens programs, or add about 60-90 new cheerleaders on scholarship to offset the football team.

Big time football teams can make money. A GMU team would be an expense not a revenue generator

In GMU's Athletics and Recreation Master Plan, as part of the 2014 Campus Plan

http://facilities.gmu.edu/masterplans/athletics_masterplan_FEB05.pdf

they have a Stadium Option, Project 23 which is a 15,000 seat Football Stadium at an estimated cost of $69,000,000 dollars. The Stadium Project includes team offices, practice facilities and team lockers.

It would be built on the West Campus near the Braddock Road entrance that exists there now and that is slated for improvement as part of the Ox Road Bridge connecting the west campus to the main campus.

The entire Master Plan is 148 pages but it's worth a look to get an idea what the university has in mind. There's even mention of building a Minor League Baseball facility on the Shirley Gate Road property.

Realize that all of this doesn't mean they're going to build any of this but it isn't being ruled out and that they're being proactive in planning for their possibility.

The key parts are Development Options 1.5 and Capital Projects 1.6

@ODU clone (): "What would a football team mean for GMU? Instant school spirit, recognition and Dollars."


Did you miss the studies showing that athletics (i.e. football programs) are almost always a money-losing proposition?

youre correct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clear as day Wrote:
>
> >
> > What I am saying is Mason is about improving
> their
> > academic image, not making money. If they
> wanted
> > to make money they would start a football
> program
> > like USF. My Kansas comparison was used to
> > illustrate that Mason would make way more money
> in
> > BCS football than they ever could in NCAA
> > basketball. That is why the BCS runs FBS
> football
> > and leaves the lesser money generating sports
> to
> > the NCAA. What is SO unclear about that?
>
>
> It was unclear because it sounded like you were
> contradicting yourself. But yes you are correct
> that Mason is really only concerned about
> academics and has no real interest in becoming a
> big time sports school despite all the talent in
> the area. I would assume any new dean the board
> picks will be in line with this philosophy

Yes, Let's play Hofstra. A University that no longer has football.

Idiot. At least know what you speak of.

I forget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clear as day say,"The fact is Mason would have to
> spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a
> stadium and upgrade/improve their facilitieis to
> make it into FBS football. This is a monetary
> commitment they are unilling to subscribe to when
> their main priority is improving their academic
> image."
>
> $100's o' millions for a football stadium for
> division 2 or division 1A really?
>
> youre correct say,"Mason is really only concerned
> about academics and has no real interest in
> becoming a big time sports school"

Sorry..I'm an idiot for quote the wrong post.

here is the right idiot suggesting they play Hofstra. dope.
>
> why does it have to be big time sports why not
> divison 2 football or !A play richmond, William &
> Mary, Georgetown, Hofstra etc.
>
> clear as day say,"This is a monetary commitment
> they are unilling to subscribe to when their main
> priority is improving their academic image."
>
> As if the Nerds ain't benefitting financially from
> academic expansion versus a football program. I
> bet there a pack of angels

They'll have football by 2015. The stadium will be in Prince William County.